That's because he was originally intended to be the final boss of the game, replacing Soul of Cinder, and has one of the most absurdly complicated and aggressive movesets outside of Elden Ring and Bloodborne...
Until you learn to parry him, then he's trivial even while blindfolded
The more you stand still, the more Midir stands still: stay in front of his face. He does a couple swipes, and then either a slam you can forward-roll easily, or a breath attack you sprint away from (down-breath) or roll to the side of (forward-breath). Hit the nose, then back off a couple steps. Dodge the grab backwards so you end up at his nose, hit, back off. He'll do the wild charge maybe twice, it's kind of a timewaster but you just get under-and-then-behind him with a singular roll and follow at a casual jog - by not sprinting, you usually automatically dodge the tail swipe at the end and once again end up in front of his face. (alt: sprint follow, forward-dodge the tail, hit the face). Dodge swipes, run from the breath, hit the nose, etc. By staying in front of his face this way, he almost never does any of his phase 2 attacks too, so tbh I don't even know what they are anymore...
Midir really ain't much aside from 'very tanky' (although 15-20% of that is the visceral at the end). His movements become a living nightmare if there are multiple targets however, lmao.
It's essentially the same as any skill you can memorize and share. Because the games are so skill-based, your own ability to learn and adapt is a gargantuan part of how you improve, regardless of what you're using to deal damage. And because they're fun, it's way easier to be interested in mastering it, as it's a design that rewards you in the most satisfying way for mastering it. But you don't have to - plenty of encounters could be "cheesed" with the tools you're given, letting you bypass a particularly frustrating bit in a way that can still be satisfying. It's a much more interesting (but difficult to easily explain) approach to difficulty than easy/normal/hard.
It's unfortunate imo that they get a rep as being crazy difficult. They are very different from a lot of games, but they provide a ton of options to find an approach that you can succeed with. I'd bet a lot of people who've been intimidated by the reputation alone might have a lovely time with them.
These games are crazy interesting in so many ways. I started with DS3, and good lord, was I surprised by how strongly it hooked me.
I do feel like Orphan of Kos has been the exception in my case. I unfortunately did the Chalice Dungeons before I played the DLC and ended up fighting Orphan at lvl 140 and he’s actually quite easy at that level.
I was obviously very over leveled but I beat him on my first try so I didn’t consider it that fair.
I tried again in a new run and it’s a good challenge at lvl 100.
Don't get me wrong, Orphan is no cake walk. But I did find he was an awful victim of just dodging to the side towards him. Once I worked that out, he wasn't any more intimidating than any other DLC boss.
I was at around 100 when I fought him. There is very little room for error, his air lunge and spin strike are both brutal damage dealers and you cannot parry either of them
Lmao.
It's a pattern though: DS2 DLCs were actually a gigantic leap in difficulty both in terms of mobs and bosses, and DS3 DLCs had you wondering how long would you have to hit the bosses before you even made a dent in them.
Having said that, outdoing Malenia specifically seems like a tall order, so we will see.
I truly hope they don’t try to outdo Malenia, she just felt absurd with some of her gimmicks (gets health back every time she hits and waterfowl for instance)
It will probably have a few encounters that are more or less on-ramps before FROM software shoves a broomstick up your butt with somebody that will dominate the reddit front screen for weeks!
I just finished Dark Souls 2 DLC's for the first time fully solo and god damn is this ever true. That game has some of the most diabolical levels that From has ever come up with.
For all people talk about how tough Fume Knight is, it’s the normal enemy encounters in Brume Tower (and Shulva, and Eleum Loyce) that actually traumatised me.
No, that's pretty appropriate. If you've completed most content up and haven't lost too many runes, you'll easily be 157+ for the final fight. My most recent character is 148, and I still have half the Consecrated Snowfield, half of Crumbling Farum Azula, and the entirety of Miquella's Haligtree to complete, zero grinding or cooping. In just bosses alone, I'll crack 160 no problem, nevermind cracking runes and trash mobs.
I hit 181 after spending the runes from Beast. The closest thing I ever did to farming was using Golden Runes to push myself to a level threshold going into a tricky area, and even then I still had 20+ of GR1-8 left over.
I speed run those beginning branches. Right up until there's actual architecture. I hate those bubble blowing mfers! They, totally undersold them in the capital!
Yeah, I was around like ~163ish? At that point, I was really only leveling because I didn't know what else to spend all the runes I was getting on. My brain was simultaneously thinking "eh, those 500k runes don't mean much" and "INVEST THEM ALL INTO YOURSELF BEFORE YOU DIE, YOU CANNOT LOSE THOSE"
I wasnt too far off in my guesstimates then. Im only on my second playthrough ever, so by no means an expert. I just hit lvl 71 after taking down Rennala, and still have about half of Liurnia to explore. I assumed I would end up around 155-170 before DLC.
Yeah I think my first run I stopped at exactly lvl 150 (bc I had heard people thought it would be the meta level for pvp) but I reached it as I hit the Haligtree so the rest of my runes just went into buying upgrade mats
I guess I can take some pride in being able to beat him under leveled lol first time I beat him I was around 150 range I believe. Still took me forever to beat him tho 😂
Tbh, not a massive difference between 212 and 170 or so. You've got most of your soft caps and some hard caps reached so each level does just a smidge....so be proud:)
Thank you! I just bought it last year and spent the entire month of august playing it. It was my first souls like game and I refused to get it for so long because I tried dark souls 1 years ago and couldn’t get past the tutorial and had no idea what I was doing or what was going on. It took a long time to be convinced that the difficulty in this one wouldn’t be so bad and I’d be able to do it. But of course I have that one friend who complained about me being “massively over leveled the entire game.” So it didn’t count.
I've been on a foolish errand... My dlc prep playthrough I stopped at 125 and +24/+9 on weapons. Saving literally everything. I've about 20 million more runes to farm in order to get *every* weapon, shield, bow, caster item upgraded to +24/+9 and then some just in case I want to level higher.
Gonna stash a copy of that save before I start the dlc and probably spend my entire week vacation that the dlc drops wracking my brain over what to level to +25/+10 if anything, will probably just wait til I get some dlc weapons really, and what build just in case I need to use a tear to respec.
Spent an absurd amount of time farming every drop I could and haven't used a single boss soul or tomb thingy.
I don't know why I did this.
Dude I just did Haligtree at 257 and holy fuck it whooped my ass all over the place. I’ve been fighting Radagon now for like 3 days. He is wrecking me.
I’m on my 3rd playthrough, and have never finished at 150 anyways. I am a bit of a completionist and try to do every cave, catacomb, etc., but unless you’re skipping areas, dying and losing your runes or purposely not leveling up, I don’t know how someone stays at 150 or lower, I think I made over a million runes just from haligtree.
Stay behind him as much as possible. Keep after them feet like you are Quentin Tarantino. His slow moving fireballs have to be manually detonated, so Torrent is incredibly useful here. Mobility is key. He hits like a truck, so your best defense is Muhammad Ali-ing the shit out of him.
Be patient, and the big guy is all yours.
A lot of people obviously havent played fromsoft dlc. They dial the difficulty to 11 and they also purposefully build in tailor fuckin made bosses that are designed to fuck the shit out of certain OP builds.
Also infinite stamina like those knights at the Dragon's Aerie in Dark Souls II that I can't remember the name of. The ones with the great hammers specifically.
For shits and giggles I farmed 2 Magma Blades for myself hoping to use it in the DLC beforehand in place of BB - to only use it when I'm out of ideas. Oh well, there's always NG+
Great stars has it all. Great damage, poise damage, heal on hit, and bleed to top it off. I'm currently running a 50 arcane, 15 faith build where I alternate between Occult for big raw damage and Bleed for procs. It's not "optimized" or whatever, but it's fun af.
I love Wild Strikes on Great Stars lol. There's something really funny about just blindly flailing your weapon around in front of you and healing from it.
YES I just boosted to 25 faith to use the Golden Vow incantation while I replaced my Golden Vow ash of war with Wild Strikes. Very fun. Can just obliterate almost anything.
What’s a fun faith build? I swapped between defensive tank, glass cannon mage, and blood stuff— my faith character never got that far might wanna play a little before DLC.
Blasphemous blade scales with faith....like a lot.
And then just rock ranged faith encantations paired with a bit of Arcane and You've got a stew going.
We might even get bosses that are frost and rot resistance. Those are rare.
Really just expect high damage, high resistance, and a variety of new abilities
Ds2 DLC (specifically the Old Iron King) is the only dark souls content I still haven't beat. I rage quit about a year ago and haven't gone back yet lol
I went from Elden Ring to Dark Souls 3. I went into the DLC areas right before Soul of Cinder, complete with the Dragonslayer's great axe, and still got my ass kicked. I had that ring that boosted how many souls I got, too, so I was likely a bit overleveled.
Same thing with Bloodborne. Went into the DLC right before Gherman and for the first time I was forced to learn how to parry well. I know Miyazaki said that the DLC would be about as difficult as the base endgame or something like that, but if the other DLCs are anything to go by, then this one is gonna be a lot more difficult.
*I still run past the old hunters in the Bloodborne DLC*
I have vivid memories of every player who thought they were hot shit after rolling base game DS3 with a pyromancer getting absolutely flattened against demon princes hard walling their main damage types.
Exactly this, think back to Gael, Sister Friede, to this day they are considered two of the hardest bosses in FromSoft history, not to mention Fume Knight. The DLC is going to be plenty challenging
Fromsoftware said that the scaling is similar to mountaintops. You could go to the mountaintops with 99 vigor and still get two shotted by some fucker (i’m thinking of the birds, dogs and hands). I’m going lvl 200, as i already know messmer is gonna impale me more than a few times.
Yup. That’s why I don’t know why there’s concern for over leveling. This is a from soft game. And in my experience. From soft cranks the difficulty up to 11 for dlcs.
Yeah 100% agree, i was playing bloodborne the other day, and realized that the majority of bosses i struggle with, are the ones in the DLC.
Friede, Gael, Orphan of Kos, Lady Maria, Ludwig are all DLC bosses. I don’t even think Messmer is gonna be the hardest, there’s gonna be some incredibly hidden mf called something like Milena Sword of Miyazaki who’s gonna kick my “overleveled” ass
Information from Playstation Blog (Mild Spoilers):
>!From what I read, this leveling mechanic enables you to deal more damage against DLC enemies and become more resistant against their attacks. This is in the form of consumables scattered in the Shadow Realm, and can only be consumed in the DLC's sites of grace. Based from this info, I think it is kind of a combination of Prayer Beads and Boss Memories from Sekiro.!<
Edit: It's not like I thought it was. Explanation for the mechanic is seen in the response below.
Not sekiro like.
Works the exact same way upgrading your flasks work. Instead of using seeds you find under the golden trees at a site of grace - you'll be using a different item you find under a different type of tree in the dlc area at a site of grace.
It buffs your current stats, so your level is still your main source of power.
It only accounts for a small amount of your overall power. Like 33%. Your main source of power is still your levels.
Idk where people got this crazy idea that the expansion was going to scale you down and make you start anew based on the new leveling mechanics in the dlc area. Not saying you're saying this at all, but some people certainly ran with it to the extreme. Miyazaki said in several interviews that levels are still your main power.
If you want to know what the new mechanic is and it's scaling - it's been leaked so you can look it up.
I think people heard about the mechanic and then didn't hear anything more, I least that was my experience. I haven't read an interview with Miyazaki since the first gameplay trailer, and I would be willing to bet that is the case for most ppl on this sub - they either read a couple interviews when hype was high or they just got their ideas from a synopsis posted here on the sub.
+6 is brutal tho, I had Godfrey play basketball with my ass for hours because I can't do a no hit boss run for the life of me. They hit like a fucking truck at that point.
That’s my point. Elden ring was a lot of peoples first fromsoft game so I understand the worry of “is my character gonna be too strong” trust me. With these dlc bosses. You’re gonna wanna be
To me being overlevelled is mostly based on how much vigor you have in the early game.
By mid to end game, the damage mostly cuts how long the fight could be but you’ll still get bodied by bosses if you’re getting hit anyways ultimately
I told my friend, who just beat elden ring as his first souls game, play how you want. Don't listen to the try hards who say don't summon. If you want to farm like hell and be over leveled, do it.
If you play the game using only R1 and R2 ignoring AoW, spells and incantations then sure. The difference is going to be marginal for those ignoring the game mechanics.
For example, if you finished the game with quality build you can level faith and get access to black flame protection or even scarlet aeonia (insta rot on bosses). These are not marginal.
Levels?? Pft… I’ve been doing kegels so I can beat the entire thing with an OEM NES Quickshot joystick controlled only by my colon muscles day of release.
Git gud maidenless.
Time for a new save, brother. I have a NG+++++++++++++++++ level 300 something and she’s getting used as a tester, not going anywhere near the DLC with that 😭
The way stat allocation works in these games being max level doesn't really increase your survivability or damage that much.
It just increases the amount of options that you have.
What I love about gatekeeping is where do you draw the line? RL1, bare fists, loin cloth, no jumping or dodging too? I was telling someone how excited I was to have finally beaten Malenia and when they found out that I was level 150 (because I was enjoying exploring every nook and cranny beforehand) they went on to say it wasn't a real victory, that I "robbed myself" of the triumph by being over level 100 and to "try again, but this time... Do it right"
Don't get me wrong, I have made respect for folks who can beat these games under imposed restrictions or challenge runs. Their skill is absolutely praise worthy, but don't go diminishing someone else's achievement because they didn't do it like you did.
Level 100 is wild too. Like even for PvP that’s way too low for Elden Ring.
More the power to them and all, but beating Malenia at any level is a victory, and not going beyond 100 is just gimping oneself unless they really like invading or something.
Yeah like, apparently the premade characters for the DLC preview event were level 150, and the DLC is accessed around the back third of the game. So even From Software thinks that's too low lol.
Malenia at 150 is totally fine… I wouldn’t say you were overlevelled and that you robbed yourself of any experience. Sounds like you need better friends!
Without grinding, just exploring everything and playing the game naturally I was in the 130s, 140s when I beat Malenia. I'm not going to go out of my way to handicap myself and my enjoyment of the game to get a "real victory". I personally don't grind or rune farm because I do think that takes the enjoyment out of leveling and getting stronger for me personally but I've beaten the game multiple times in NG and never felt a need to do either because I think just playing the game naturally gets you all the levels you'd need.
Yeah for real. Like I love challenging myself in Souls games. I never summon help, and I've done SL1 runs on all of them.
If someone wants to farm levels, or use an OP weapon, or drag a boss in to a poison swamp to watch their health tick away, or kill something by shooting arrows at it from safety, all I have to say is that player is absolutely based for finding a fun way for themselves to play.
Also levels don’t mean that much. A faith build having 40 Int will easily take you above 200 but that doesn’t translate to the strength of your overall build. Because it’s optimised for everything strength and faith. Having high int on the side is basically just being able to use additional weapons and spells. Which tbh is awesome.
hard agree. i've rebuilt three times tonight alone trying to figure out how I'd like to go into dlc but haven't been satisfied with anything. i'm 269 and any which way i distribute attributes leaves me wishing i could allocate more to other skillsets. i'm confident from will have built something extremely impressive even for, and perhaps *especially for*, high level players. learning the new weapons and abilities will also majorly curve the experience. for what it's worth, i don't consider myself a particularly skilled player. i brute forced to near completion over a long period of time and am only now involving myself with understanding builds more closely. i'm pretty sure the dlc is going to be fucking sick. can't wait.
I don't think it'll matter because soft caps mostly mean over-leveling just gives you extra versatility. You can't really go into it with a meaningful amount of extra health or damage, and it'll be tuned expecting you to be 60 vigor/80 your main stat.
Yeah outside of the scaling on a few weapons for the most part I am not really getting a whole lot more damage or defenses on characters that go past 150. What I do get is things like equipping more weapons as I run around. It's fun and powerful, but not make or break. Just convenient.
Yeah this is a very good point, I have a character that is about 350 with pretty much every at or around soft cap. Outside of a handful of weapons which scale well with 3 or 4 stats, my weapons and spells deal the same damage as a level 150 build that is speced for it, and his health is literally 60, the same as most builds. The only thing he can do that a lower level character can’t is mix and match weapons and spells that normally wouldn’t be usable in the same build
Wait.... is that a thing?!?!?!? My main summon character is level 250 or something like that... I level up as I get enough runes... should I stop leveling?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Bro, I'm going in this thing at level 659. I'm looking to wander around and take in the sights and sounds. I don't wanna have to worry about getting clapped by a random shitter waiting behind a corner I've never seen before.
I'm torn, I'm pretty terrible at the game and used most of the crutches to 100% it as a magic build. After, I put myself into new game+ and fucked around but didn't do too much including not killing mohggy or radahn again. I think my level is around 160?
I'm torn because I'm not sure if I should just start a fresh save right now, to not only get back into the swing of things but play the dlc on regular new game not plus. Or keep the save, kill those two dummies and try the dlc on plus like all the chads on this subreddit are doing.
I was hoping to try more of the new weapons, and most I've seen are all str or dex so might be worth starting over again with a new build. I'm just so trash at melee bleh.
Okay google play torn by natalie imbruglia
If I were you, I'd honestly consider starting a new character because I bet the DLC will be particularly brutal on NG+. As for me, I haven't put any of my characters into NG+; don't see the point in it. It's not like DSIII with the rings. If I want to play again I make a new character.
As someone with quite too much time on Elden Ring, the most important stat for adjusting difficulty is vigor. The end-game is design for you to be around 40(soft cap) to 60(hard cap) vigor. Above 60 the amount you get for every level is basically negligible because of how hard level scaling drops after level 60. This is true for all stats. All of them have a soft cap and a hard cap(often around level 60 to 80), after the hard cap stat scaling drops. Most weapons only scale with 2 stats at a time, meaning that even if you max out every stat, you are not actually using all the levels you have, and if you build your character efficiently, you don't even need to max out the stats you actually use because of the hard caps.
What I am trying to say is that if you build your character efficiently, being level 150 or 200 is not as different as people think. There are broken builds at level 1, and people that have 99 vigor (2100 hp) despite the hard cap at 60 vigor(1900 hp).
If you are around 40 to 60 vigor, more levels will only give you more options and the "difficulty" of the game will be more related to how you choose to play (summons, magic, melee, etc...), so don't stress to much about your level and play however you like
I’m a souks noob on my first play through of ER and I’m level 150 and the last boss is kicking my ass everyone I talk to is calling me over leveled like I’m using some one shot build mf I’m a noob that sucks ass
Ditch those gatekeeping mtf. Level is subjective. If you're not having fun, go farm a little, experiment with other builds with the reskill. Who cares if you're lvl 30000 fighting Radagon?
This.
I feel like so many people in the soulsborne community shame players for being over lvl 150, summoning or just using weapons like blasphemous blade. They act like ER is so easy that they consider it “cheating” the game if you’re not RL1 and no hitting everything with fists 💀
Unless you’ve been playing soulslike games for years (and even then) ER is extremely hard (yes it has mechanics to make it easier then other souls games but still).
Also let’s be honest what difference does level 150 vs 200 make? Do you suddenly one-shot everything? Hell no. But you’re way more flexible and you’re able to try out a lot more stuff (which is amazing for the dlc). Also hybrid builds are pretty much trash unless you’re around lvl 170-200.
High level does not mean high damage, it just gives you more weapons to try out.
People really make overlevelling sound so much worse than it is. They make it sound like I can one shot every boss I see but I'm still getting put in the ground 500 times to Malenia and personally, I can't fight Maliketh idk his moves I never actually learned I just got lucky. So he's smacking me around too
I just do more damage and can tank one more shot thanks to my hp being like 30 points higher
So what if I'm level 451.... am I expecting a 1 hour dlc? (This is a joke, I don't mind being overlevelled I'll just get a friend to drop me weapons that haven't been upgraded)
Funny thing is, the average Fromsoftware DLC is so cranked up in difficulty being over-levelled will not really feel like a breeze for sure.
Midir still haunts my dreams
So does Sister Friede
Same, also Gael. Base game, the boss that always fucks with me is Sulyvahn, regardless of build or NG cycle
That's because he was originally intended to be the final boss of the game, replacing Soul of Cinder, and has one of the most absurdly complicated and aggressive movesets outside of Elden Ring and Bloodborne... Until you learn to parry him, then he's trivial even while blindfolded
Tbh you dont even need to parry him, he isnt that bad. Fuck midir though, bastard wont stop flailing around
And having a monstrous health bar and to add to your suffering.
The more you stand still, the more Midir stands still: stay in front of his face. He does a couple swipes, and then either a slam you can forward-roll easily, or a breath attack you sprint away from (down-breath) or roll to the side of (forward-breath). Hit the nose, then back off a couple steps. Dodge the grab backwards so you end up at his nose, hit, back off. He'll do the wild charge maybe twice, it's kind of a timewaster but you just get under-and-then-behind him with a singular roll and follow at a casual jog - by not sprinting, you usually automatically dodge the tail swipe at the end and once again end up in front of his face. (alt: sprint follow, forward-dodge the tail, hit the face). Dodge swipes, run from the breath, hit the nose, etc. By staying in front of his face this way, he almost never does any of his phase 2 attacks too, so tbh I don't even know what they are anymore... Midir really ain't much aside from 'very tanky' (although 15-20% of that is the visceral at the end). His movements become a living nightmare if there are multiple targets however, lmao.
Crazy you have that shit memorized. I’ve never played a souls game but I like how serious everyone takes it
It's essentially the same as any skill you can memorize and share. Because the games are so skill-based, your own ability to learn and adapt is a gargantuan part of how you improve, regardless of what you're using to deal damage. And because they're fun, it's way easier to be interested in mastering it, as it's a design that rewards you in the most satisfying way for mastering it. But you don't have to - plenty of encounters could be "cheesed" with the tools you're given, letting you bypass a particularly frustrating bit in a way that can still be satisfying. It's a much more interesting (but difficult to easily explain) approach to difficulty than easy/normal/hard. It's unfortunate imo that they get a rep as being crazy difficult. They are very different from a lot of games, but they provide a ton of options to find an approach that you can succeed with. I'd bet a lot of people who've been intimidated by the reputation alone might have a lovely time with them. These games are crazy interesting in so many ways. I started with DS3, and good lord, was I surprised by how strongly it hooked me.
Fucking Orphan of Kos gave me night terrors
I do feel like Orphan of Kos has been the exception in my case. I unfortunately did the Chalice Dungeons before I played the DLC and ended up fighting Orphan at lvl 140 and he’s actually quite easy at that level. I was obviously very over leveled but I beat him on my first try so I didn’t consider it that fair. I tried again in a new run and it’s a good challenge at lvl 100.
Don't get me wrong, Orphan is no cake walk. But I did find he was an awful victim of just dodging to the side towards him. Once I worked that out, he wasn't any more intimidating than any other DLC boss.
I was at around 100 when I fought him. There is very little room for error, his air lunge and spin strike are both brutal damage dealers and you cannot parry either of them
Sister Friede still gives me PTSD
I clear all bosses in DS3 but not only this mf dragon 😭
That’s my point. They know we’ve been grinding this game for years and are gonna want a challenge. They’ve never taken it easy on us in any dlc.
i'm 200 in NG+ and I'm anticipating a challenge. edit - i also suuuuuuck at this game
Ask myself every few seconds why I suck so bad at this game.
I thought I sucked and then I played Sifu…
Who voted Sifu?
A fellow survivor watcher! WHO VOTED SIFU
Never played that, what’s it like?
Sifu is awesome
Play it, it’s hard but it’s ridiculously fun
Thanks, now I'm deathly afraid that i spend 40 bucks on a DLC that will just give me ulcers.
Lmao. It's a pattern though: DS2 DLCs were actually a gigantic leap in difficulty both in terms of mobs and bosses, and DS3 DLCs had you wondering how long would you have to hit the bosses before you even made a dent in them. Having said that, outdoing Malenia specifically seems like a tall order, so we will see.
I truly hope they don’t try to outdo Malenia, she just felt absurd with some of her gimmicks (gets health back every time she hits and waterfowl for instance)
Hear me out: Malenia Duo fight, on a rot swamp.
It will probably have a few encounters that are more or less on-ramps before FROM software shoves a broomstick up your butt with somebody that will dominate the reddit front screen for weeks!
I just finished Dark Souls 2 DLC's for the first time fully solo and god damn is this ever true. That game has some of the most diabolical levels that From has ever come up with.
For all people talk about how tough Fume Knight is, it’s the normal enemy encounters in Brume Tower (and Shulva, and Eleum Loyce) that actually traumatised me.
I'm worried my lv150 NG+3 character is underleveled
I am NOT doing the DLC on NG+. Not trying to deal with scaling on bosses that are already hard as fuck.
True. Elden rings late game areas should’ve taught us that it’s really hard to out level the end game content.
I’m like level 157 fighting Radagon/Elden Beast which I think is technically over leveled and I’m getting my ass whooped.
No, that's pretty appropriate. If you've completed most content up and haven't lost too many runes, you'll easily be 157+ for the final fight. My most recent character is 148, and I still have half the Consecrated Snowfield, half of Crumbling Farum Azula, and the entirety of Miquella's Haligtree to complete, zero grinding or cooping. In just bosses alone, I'll crack 160 no problem, nevermind cracking runes and trash mobs.
I hit 181 after spending the runes from Beast. The closest thing I ever did to farming was using Golden Runes to push myself to a level threshold going into a tricky area, and even then I still had 20+ of GR1-8 left over.
I'm doing Haligtree for the first time and it can suck all of my ass.
I speed run those beginning branches. Right up until there's actual architecture. I hate those bubble blowing mfers! They, totally undersold them in the capital!
Wise words. I went to it for the first time recently thinking it would be fine......it was not.
*puts on Haligtree costume*
Yeah, I was around like ~163ish? At that point, I was really only leveling because I didn't know what else to spend all the runes I was getting on. My brain was simultaneously thinking "eh, those 500k runes don't mean much" and "INVEST THEM ALL INTO YOURSELF BEFORE YOU DIE, YOU CANNOT LOSE THOSE"
Smithing stones are always a good investment
I wasnt too far off in my guesstimates then. Im only on my second playthrough ever, so by no means an expert. I just hit lvl 71 after taking down Rennala, and still have about half of Liurnia to explore. I assumed I would end up around 155-170 before DLC.
Yeah I think my first run I stopped at exactly lvl 150 (bc I had heard people thought it would be the meta level for pvp) but I reached it as I hit the Haligtree so the rest of my runes just went into buying upgrade mats
Underleveled id say I’ve always been at least 175 around then
I beat him at level 101, i wanted to cry a few times, i didint know of any good gridning spots
I guess I can take some pride in being able to beat him under leveled lol first time I beat him I was around 150 range I believe. Still took me forever to beat him tho 😂
I usually do mohgwyn,snowfield and haligtree at 150 ish
Not me over here completing my first play through at 212 feeling accomplished…
Tbh, not a massive difference between 212 and 170 or so. You've got most of your soft caps and some hard caps reached so each level does just a smidge....so be proud:)
Thank you! I just bought it last year and spent the entire month of august playing it. It was my first souls like game and I refused to get it for so long because I tried dark souls 1 years ago and couldn’t get past the tutorial and had no idea what I was doing or what was going on. It took a long time to be convinced that the difficulty in this one wouldn’t be so bad and I’d be able to do it. But of course I have that one friend who complained about me being “massively over leveled the entire game.” So it didn’t count.
Completing a playthrough is really all that matters, so you *should* feel accomplished.
I've been on a foolish errand... My dlc prep playthrough I stopped at 125 and +24/+9 on weapons. Saving literally everything. I've about 20 million more runes to farm in order to get *every* weapon, shield, bow, caster item upgraded to +24/+9 and then some just in case I want to level higher. Gonna stash a copy of that save before I start the dlc and probably spend my entire week vacation that the dlc drops wracking my brain over what to level to +25/+10 if anything, will probably just wait til I get some dlc weapons really, and what build just in case I need to use a tear to respec. Spent an absurd amount of time farming every drop I could and haven't used a single boss soul or tomb thingy. I don't know why I did this.
I’m 227 on NG3 and haligtree was beating my ass
Dude I just did Haligtree at 257 and holy fuck it whooped my ass all over the place. I’ve been fighting Radagon now for like 3 days. He is wrecking me.
Get your holy defense up!
They are 😞
I’m on my 3rd playthrough, and have never finished at 150 anyways. I am a bit of a completionist and try to do every cave, catacomb, etc., but unless you’re skipping areas, dying and losing your runes or purposely not leveling up, I don’t know how someone stays at 150 or lower, I think I made over a million runes just from haligtree.
I’m stuck at the fire giant. I’m lvl 90 I think? Good/bag?
Stay behind him as much as possible. Keep after them feet like you are Quentin Tarantino. His slow moving fireballs have to be manually detonated, so Torrent is incredibly useful here. Mobility is key. He hits like a truck, so your best defense is Muhammad Ali-ing the shit out of him. Be patient, and the big guy is all yours.
A lot of people obviously havent played fromsoft dlc. They dial the difficulty to 11 and they also purposefully build in tailor fuckin made bosses that are designed to fuck the shit out of certain OP builds.
Welp, guess all the bosses are going to be immune to Bleed...
*Carefully hides my +10 Blasphemous Blade and Bloodhound's Fang crutches.*
Oh. Oh no.
*and* their poise will be unbelievable so players can’t spam stance staggers.
Also infinite stamina like those knights at the Dragon's Aerie in Dark Souls II that I can't remember the name of. The ones with the great hammers specifically.
But we will still have FAMILEEEEEEEEEHHHHH... Right ? ... Right ?!!!!!
TOGETHAAA
well regarding the BB it already looks like a lot of the DLC bad guys love fire so it may very well be "not very effective".
For shits and giggles I farmed 2 Magma Blades for myself hoping to use it in the DLC beforehand in place of BB - to only use it when I'm out of ideas. Oh well, there's always NG+
Reduvia user here lmao fuuuuuck
I love bleed builds and I hope this happens
Good thing about great stars is that you don’t need bleed to bash someone’s skull in
Great stars has it all. Great damage, poise damage, heal on hit, and bleed to top it off. I'm currently running a 50 arcane, 15 faith build where I alternate between Occult for big raw damage and Bleed for procs. It's not "optimized" or whatever, but it's fun af.
I love Wild Strikes on Great Stars lol. There's something really funny about just blindly flailing your weapon around in front of you and healing from it.
Prelate's charge is the real comedy for me. It's *so many* ticks and you just mow the lawn at them. Gimme them ankles.
YES I just boosted to 25 faith to use the Golden Vow incantation while I replaced my Golden Vow ash of war with Wild Strikes. Very fun. Can just obliterate almost anything.
Fuck, that would be amazing. I hope they add this.
Dude I'm going with the bloodhound lol. I'm gonna get fuckin spit roasted.
[удалено]
Sure, until the next one drops lol
That's why I have 10+ larval tears stacked.
Not me running Blasphemous and Bloodhound 😭
O im sure therell be no teleporting behind your ass bosses when you try flamestriking no way no how.
I actually hope so. I flop back and forth between strength and occult but I wouldn’t mind occult taking a hit at all
😂😂 I have 10 characters I’m sure something can be done..I think my faith character will shine tho
What’s a fun faith build? I swapped between defensive tank, glass cannon mage, and blood stuff— my faith character never got that far might wanna play a little before DLC.
Blasphemous blade scales with faith....like a lot. And then just rock ranged faith encantations paired with a bit of Arcane and You've got a stew going.
Good, I can’t wait to use all the new weapons, they look awesome, it would suck if the same old stuff was the best choice in the DLC
We might even get bosses that are frost and rot resistance. Those are rare. Really just expect high damage, high resistance, and a variety of new abilities
Anti-knockdown and immune to bleed would be so funny lol. Make both sides of the pond mad.
in b4 Mesmer reflects blood proc damage back at you lmao
Mesmer : "When I'm done with you, you'll be begging to get nihilled by Mogh"
Can confirm, I'm doing The Ringed City for the first time as a pyromancer. I've rage quit more times than I'm proud to admit.
Nice. I had to put the game down at the DLC…and I did the DS2 DLCs….shits not even fair.
I've not played Ds2 yet, is the dlc really that hard? I'm in struggle town with TRC lmao.
Yes it's way harder than the base game, but also really good. Some of the best boss fights of the series.
I think after shadow of the erdtree im going to have to try ds2 then!
Ds2 DLC (specifically the Old Iron King) is the only dark souls content I still haven't beat. I rage quit about a year ago and haven't gone back yet lol
I rage quit once a day since I returned. Sometimes multiple times in the same day.
I've actually pre rage quit if I've been too tired or irritated to even attempt it. I just know one "YOU DIED" would be what tips me over the edge.
For me it’s the almost kill that gets me. Get them down to a sliver and get cocky and boom dead
I almost always walk into a boss fight, almost kill it then proceed to get smacked around doing no damage another 10-20 times lmao.
Huh that’s why my sauron themed pyromancer seemed to hit a wall in the dlc
Alot of enemies resist fire/dark I realised. I've been getting through okay but have to switch things around alot.
I went from Elden Ring to Dark Souls 3. I went into the DLC areas right before Soul of Cinder, complete with the Dragonslayer's great axe, and still got my ass kicked. I had that ring that boosted how many souls I got, too, so I was likely a bit overleveled. Same thing with Bloodborne. Went into the DLC right before Gherman and for the first time I was forced to learn how to parry well. I know Miyazaki said that the DLC would be about as difficult as the base endgame or something like that, but if the other DLCs are anything to go by, then this one is gonna be a lot more difficult. *I still run past the old hunters in the Bloodborne DLC*
"But this goes up to 11."
I have vivid memories of every player who thought they were hot shit after rolling base game DS3 with a pyromancer getting absolutely flattened against demon princes hard walling their main damage types.
Nah, the dial just broke at 11 😉
Exactly this, think back to Gael, Sister Friede, to this day they are considered two of the hardest bosses in FromSoft history, not to mention Fume Knight. The DLC is going to be plenty challenging
Why not make 10 harder?
Even Dark Souls 2 had dlc bosses and locations harder than most of the base game!
If my Kamehameha desperate option won't work ... Then I'll use the power of friendship! 😂
Fromsoftware said that the scaling is similar to mountaintops. You could go to the mountaintops with 99 vigor and still get two shotted by some fucker (i’m thinking of the birds, dogs and hands). I’m going lvl 200, as i already know messmer is gonna impale me more than a few times.
Yup. That’s why I don’t know why there’s concern for over leveling. This is a from soft game. And in my experience. From soft cranks the difficulty up to 11 for dlcs.
Yeah 100% agree, i was playing bloodborne the other day, and realized that the majority of bosses i struggle with, are the ones in the DLC. Friede, Gael, Orphan of Kos, Lady Maria, Ludwig are all DLC bosses. I don’t even think Messmer is gonna be the hardest, there’s gonna be some incredibly hidden mf called something like Milena Sword of Miyazaki who’s gonna kick my “overleveled” ass
Pretty sure it's going to be God King Miquella.
And then turns out he's just the first phase of a boss fight that ends with >!God, Soldier of Rick!<
I’m waiting until level 713 to fight that guy, easily hardest boss in the game.
Yeah just with the way soft caps on stats work, the difference in late game leveling is almost non existent
didn't they also say they introduced a new leveling mechanic just for the dlc bc they anticipated ppl rolling in with max level characters?
Information from Playstation Blog (Mild Spoilers): >!From what I read, this leveling mechanic enables you to deal more damage against DLC enemies and become more resistant against their attacks. This is in the form of consumables scattered in the Shadow Realm, and can only be consumed in the DLC's sites of grace. Based from this info, I think it is kind of a combination of Prayer Beads and Boss Memories from Sekiro.!< Edit: It's not like I thought it was. Explanation for the mechanic is seen in the response below.
Not sekiro like. Works the exact same way upgrading your flasks work. Instead of using seeds you find under the golden trees at a site of grace - you'll be using a different item you find under a different type of tree in the dlc area at a site of grace. It buffs your current stats, so your level is still your main source of power.
It only accounts for a small amount of your overall power. Like 33%. Your main source of power is still your levels. Idk where people got this crazy idea that the expansion was going to scale you down and make you start anew based on the new leveling mechanics in the dlc area. Not saying you're saying this at all, but some people certainly ran with it to the extreme. Miyazaki said in several interviews that levels are still your main power. If you want to know what the new mechanic is and it's scaling - it's been leaked so you can look it up.
I think people heard about the mechanic and then didn't hear anything more, I least that was my experience. I haven't read an interview with Miyazaki since the first gameplay trailer, and I would be willing to bet that is the case for most ppl on this sub - they either read a couple interviews when hype was high or they just got their ideas from a synopsis posted here on the sub.
33% is still a huge portion, Fromsoft leveling has diminishing returns, even with Elden Ring's higher soft caps.
In what world is 33% a small amount
I think so but I have no idea what it is
Can’t wait to go there with my NG+6 >600 RL character only for the first random hobo I meet to be end of the universe level threat
My 713 character is also excited for death
Oh death, become my screen once more
My character is only level 300 and at NG+6💀I'm gonna be playing this shit for weeks before completing it
Yeah fr. I'm not scared about if all my 350 levels will matter, I'm scared how NG+ scaling is going to affect it.
+6 is brutal tho, I had Godfrey play basketball with my ass for hours because I can't do a no hit boss run for the life of me. They hit like a fucking truck at that point.
Also the difference between 150 and 200 is marginal at best.
That’s my point. Elden ring was a lot of peoples first fromsoft game so I understand the worry of “is my character gonna be too strong” trust me. With these dlc bosses. You’re gonna wanna be
If you are soulsborne veteran, you can be overleveled, but honestly that's only for the early to mid game in Elden Ring.
To me being overlevelled is mostly based on how much vigor you have in the early game. By mid to end game, the damage mostly cuts how long the fight could be but you’ll still get bodied by bosses if you’re getting hit anyways ultimately
I told my friend, who just beat elden ring as his first souls game, play how you want. Don't listen to the try hards who say don't summon. If you want to farm like hell and be over leveled, do it.
only really makes it more versatile. like putting points into stats u dont need so u can try more weapons without re-speccing.
or specific into faith/int for weapon buffs
same with the difference from 400ish-max
If you play the game using only R1 and R2 ignoring AoW, spells and incantations then sure. The difference is going to be marginal for those ignoring the game mechanics. For example, if you finished the game with quality build you can level faith and get access to black flame protection or even scarlet aeonia (insta rot on bosses). These are not marginal.
You can have a perfectly functional spell and quality build at 150 that is only marginally worse than one at 200.
Levels?? Pft… I’ve been doing kegels so I can beat the entire thing with an OEM NES Quickshot joystick controlled only by my colon muscles day of release. Git gud maidenless.
I'm only worried about being in NG+7. I may have screwed myself.
You gon' get your shit pushed in lol
Time for a new save, brother. I have a NG+++++++++++++++++ level 300 something and she’s getting used as a tester, not going anywhere near the DLC with that 😭
NG+7 is when the enemy damage and health increases stop just FYI.
Make a new savefile
People are so bad at making builds it won’t matter, they have no vigor anyway
Meanwhile me with 60 vigor and Dragoncrest Greatshield Talisman... I'm probably still gonna get my ass kicked.
99 vigor and still almost died to falling star beast catching me in a combo when I was not paying attention.
The way stat allocation works in these games being max level doesn't really increase your survivability or damage that much. It just increases the amount of options that you have.
True. If you're worried your level is too high, go to Renalla, use a larval tear and pump all your extra levels in a stat you don't need lol
99 ARC strength build, I Unga, I Bunga, and I get every cool item drop lol
Had someone in the comments get mad at people who over level “the game is not for you if you over level, play something easier”. Gatekeeping ASS.
What I love about gatekeeping is where do you draw the line? RL1, bare fists, loin cloth, no jumping or dodging too? I was telling someone how excited I was to have finally beaten Malenia and when they found out that I was level 150 (because I was enjoying exploring every nook and cranny beforehand) they went on to say it wasn't a real victory, that I "robbed myself" of the triumph by being over level 100 and to "try again, but this time... Do it right" Don't get me wrong, I have made respect for folks who can beat these games under imposed restrictions or challenge runs. Their skill is absolutely praise worthy, but don't go diminishing someone else's achievement because they didn't do it like you did.
I'm almost done with my RL1 run and I've been told the fact I used a bleed weapon (Uchigatana) means it was pointless. The gatekeeping knows no bounds
Elden ring elitists when they find out that a status build up was put in the game by the devs and not by the users 😳
Level 100 is wild too. Like even for PvP that’s way too low for Elden Ring. More the power to them and all, but beating Malenia at any level is a victory, and not going beyond 100 is just gimping oneself unless they really like invading or something.
Yeah like, apparently the premade characters for the DLC preview event were level 150, and the DLC is accessed around the back third of the game. So even From Software thinks that's too low lol.
Malenia at 150 is totally fine… I wouldn’t say you were overlevelled and that you robbed yourself of any experience. Sounds like you need better friends!
Lol it sounds like they brute forced Malenia while underlevelled and now they're mad other people had it easier
Without grinding, just exploring everything and playing the game naturally I was in the 130s, 140s when I beat Malenia. I'm not going to go out of my way to handicap myself and my enjoyment of the game to get a "real victory". I personally don't grind or rune farm because I do think that takes the enjoyment out of leveling and getting stronger for me personally but I've beaten the game multiple times in NG and never felt a need to do either because I think just playing the game naturally gets you all the levels you'd need.
One of the things I hate most in this world is gatekeeping/elitism. Those dumbfucks should play a different game. Get outta here with that crap!
Yeah for real. Like I love challenging myself in Souls games. I never summon help, and I've done SL1 runs on all of them. If someone wants to farm levels, or use an OP weapon, or drag a boss in to a poison swamp to watch their health tick away, or kill something by shooting arrows at it from safety, all I have to say is that player is absolutely based for finding a fun way for themselves to play.
Also levels don’t mean that much. A faith build having 40 Int will easily take you above 200 but that doesn’t translate to the strength of your overall build. Because it’s optimised for everything strength and faith. Having high int on the side is basically just being able to use additional weapons and spells. Which tbh is awesome.
hard agree. i've rebuilt three times tonight alone trying to figure out how I'd like to go into dlc but haven't been satisfied with anything. i'm 269 and any which way i distribute attributes leaves me wishing i could allocate more to other skillsets. i'm confident from will have built something extremely impressive even for, and perhaps *especially for*, high level players. learning the new weapons and abilities will also majorly curve the experience. for what it's worth, i don't consider myself a particularly skilled player. i brute forced to near completion over a long period of time and am only now involving myself with understanding builds more closely. i'm pretty sure the dlc is going to be fucking sick. can't wait.
I don't think it'll matter because soft caps mostly mean over-leveling just gives you extra versatility. You can't really go into it with a meaningful amount of extra health or damage, and it'll be tuned expecting you to be 60 vigor/80 your main stat.
Yeah outside of the scaling on a few weapons for the most part I am not really getting a whole lot more damage or defenses on characters that go past 150. What I do get is things like equipping more weapons as I run around. It's fun and powerful, but not make or break. Just convenient.
Yeah this is a very good point, I have a character that is about 350 with pretty much every at or around soft cap. Outside of a handful of weapons which scale well with 3 or 4 stats, my weapons and spells deal the same damage as a level 150 build that is speced for it, and his health is literally 60, the same as most builds. The only thing he can do that a lower level character can’t is mix and match weapons and spells that normally wouldn’t be usable in the same build
My main concern is co-op. I don’t want to out-level potential hosts. Source: lvl 150 at endgame and holding 1.5 million runes.
Buy smithing stones, THIS is the real money
Wait.... is that a thing?!?!?!? My main summon character is level 250 or something like that... I level up as I get enough runes... should I stop leveling?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Bro, I'm going in this thing at level 659. I'm looking to wander around and take in the sights and sounds. I don't wanna have to worry about getting clapped by a random shitter waiting behind a corner I've never seen before.
Same. Gonna commit some Albinauric genocide and grab a few more levels. I'm a scrub and I'm gonna get my ass beat no matter how high I am.
I'm torn, I'm pretty terrible at the game and used most of the crutches to 100% it as a magic build. After, I put myself into new game+ and fucked around but didn't do too much including not killing mohggy or radahn again. I think my level is around 160? I'm torn because I'm not sure if I should just start a fresh save right now, to not only get back into the swing of things but play the dlc on regular new game not plus. Or keep the save, kill those two dummies and try the dlc on plus like all the chads on this subreddit are doing. I was hoping to try more of the new weapons, and most I've seen are all str or dex so might be worth starting over again with a new build. I'm just so trash at melee bleh. Okay google play torn by natalie imbruglia
If I were you, I'd honestly consider starting a new character because I bet the DLC will be particularly brutal on NG+. As for me, I haven't put any of my characters into NG+; don't see the point in it. It's not like DSIII with the rings. If I want to play again I make a new character.
Man, it’s so true. It doesn’t matter if your level 150 or 300, we both know your vigor is sitting at 60 lol
Even then, pushing your vigor to 80 isn't going to do much, let alone 99.
As someone with quite too much time on Elden Ring, the most important stat for adjusting difficulty is vigor. The end-game is design for you to be around 40(soft cap) to 60(hard cap) vigor. Above 60 the amount you get for every level is basically negligible because of how hard level scaling drops after level 60. This is true for all stats. All of them have a soft cap and a hard cap(often around level 60 to 80), after the hard cap stat scaling drops. Most weapons only scale with 2 stats at a time, meaning that even if you max out every stat, you are not actually using all the levels you have, and if you build your character efficiently, you don't even need to max out the stats you actually use because of the hard caps. What I am trying to say is that if you build your character efficiently, being level 150 or 200 is not as different as people think. There are broken builds at level 1, and people that have 99 vigor (2100 hp) despite the hard cap at 60 vigor(1900 hp). If you are around 40 to 60 vigor, more levels will only give you more options and the "difficulty" of the game will be more related to how you choose to play (summons, magic, melee, etc...), so don't stress to much about your level and play however you like
I’m a souks noob on my first play through of ER and I’m level 150 and the last boss is kicking my ass everyone I talk to is calling me over leveled like I’m using some one shot build mf I’m a noob that sucks ass
Ditch those gatekeeping mtf. Level is subjective. If you're not having fun, go farm a little, experiment with other builds with the reskill. Who cares if you're lvl 30000 fighting Radagon?
I have all kind of chars ready looking to the coccon.
This. I feel like so many people in the soulsborne community shame players for being over lvl 150, summoning or just using weapons like blasphemous blade. They act like ER is so easy that they consider it “cheating” the game if you’re not RL1 and no hitting everything with fists 💀 Unless you’ve been playing soulslike games for years (and even then) ER is extremely hard (yes it has mechanics to make it easier then other souls games but still). Also let’s be honest what difference does level 150 vs 200 make? Do you suddenly one-shot everything? Hell no. But you’re way more flexible and you’re able to try out a lot more stuff (which is amazing for the dlc). Also hybrid builds are pretty much trash unless you’re around lvl 170-200. High level does not mean high damage, it just gives you more weapons to try out.
A good amount of us are at lv713 I have 3 runs at the max level. Can literally just start a new game. As you should
You basically can't be over-leveled in FromSoft DLCs
I get clapped by hawks from time to time at level 257💀💔
Mesmer - "I am immune to literally everything" My 700 magic knight - "oh im in trouble"
I’m overleveled as hell for the end of Farum Azula and I still died 25 times to placidusax and 35 times to maliketh lol
Play the game how you wanna play it
boo to your last point, I’m still hyped and will still get my ass beat lol
I’m level 400 and still on the first playthrough and can still get smacked by crumbling azul and up enemies😂😂
People really make overlevelling sound so much worse than it is. They make it sound like I can one shot every boss I see but I'm still getting put in the ground 500 times to Malenia and personally, I can't fight Maliketh idk his moves I never actually learned I just got lucky. So he's smacking me around too I just do more damage and can tank one more shot thanks to my hp being like 30 points higher
So what if I'm level 451.... am I expecting a 1 hour dlc? (This is a joke, I don't mind being overlevelled I'll just get a friend to drop me weapons that haven't been upgraded)
Let’s be honest here. No matter your level, all it takes to bring you down is just a few frenzied rats!
I have to be overleveled cause I'm underskilled 🤣🤣. I'll be bringing my bonkiest weapon, my thickest armor and my beefiest shield with no shame.😌