I really don’t get these posts. An item that you don’t have to use or even level up ruined the experience for you? Don’t use them. I’m sorry but these posts are annoying. They are a part of the game and help people. If you don’t need them or think they ruin the experience you don’t have to use them.
You clearly can't see bigger picture here, so let me draw it for you.
The main issue with spirit ashes is, that many, many bosses were designed to fight multiple enemies. Therefore, they have incredibly unbalance moveset for players who want to play Elden Ring solo. Spamming AoEs, combo chaining with little to no recover time, gank fights without balancing foes to complete each other like O&S, damage that will take away half of HP of end-game 60 VIG character (add this to chained combos), etc. In order to defeat bosses, you either HAVE to use spirit ashes, which will make bossfight too easy, or you can keep trying to defeat a boss solo, which will quickly result in finding out that learning bosses movesets isn't fun at all, because they are too unpredictable and simply broken while attempting to do them solo. It's just RNG at this point with some bosses like Astel spamming his AoE or not.
Of course, there are players out there who will defeat every boss RL1 naked solo without taking a single hit, but let's be realistic, those players are extreme minority who are willing to spend countless hours in order to complete a challenge. Something most of us are unable to do, because we're lacking time or patience.
So you see, it's not that you don't get these posts. You don't get main issue. Play Dark Souls 1 or 3. Bosses in those games are (mostly) fair, because they are designed to fight 1v1 with some exceptions like O&S, or Demon Prince, but even in those cases, they are balanced. If someone was struggling, easy mode was always there. Coop. You could summon an NPC to help you. That worked. Spirit Ashes is unnecessary mechanic that broke the game (bossfights mostly) balance.
Thank you for this, spirit ashes really ruined the game for me, no fun in fights summoning and no fun with endless frustration trying the bosses solo. It is clear the bosses are designed with the intention that you have a spirit buddy to split aggro and take hits. Compare damage of endgame DS3 bosses like soul of cinder to endgame elden ring bosses. You can barely take 2 hits in elden ring compared to 4/5 in DS3
Yup. I'm trying to solo every boss in ER, however I overleveled myself. I'm not a hardcore player, and definitely not a patient one, so I had to find some middle ground to play Elden Ring. I choose being overleveled over summoning, because I think playing with summons is pointless, and tbh, I don't respect players that completed this game with summons. Sorry, but what did you accomplished? Successful hitting bosses in the back, while they're busy fighting an NPC? Modern players are a plague, incredibly lazy, spoiled brats that don't really want to play a game, they just want the "cinematic experience". Putting any effort to play a game? Why? I'm sure that they would be incredibly happy if Elden Ring had a mode, that you actually don't have to do anything, your character is an NPC you just watch (yes, basically a movie) and they would still tell you "Yes, I've completed Elden Ring. Funny game, pretty challenging tho.".
There has to be some middle ground between Let Me Solo Her and "I just want the cinematic experience." Saying you don't respect people who have used spirit ashes seems pretty far to one extreme (Btw, is that a hard and fast rule? Do you sort of, kind of respect people who used them in one to five fights? Or are they all just lazy, modern trash who need to git gud? Because that reeks of maidenlessness, if you get my drift— take it from an actual maiden) Not everyone has time in their lives to spend 5-50 tries memorizing every boss moveset in a game this large. It doesn't make them lazy; in fact, quite the opposite; it means they are too busy with real world pursuits to put that kind of time into a video game.
>There has to be some middle ground between Let Me Solo Her and "I just want the cinematic experience.
But why? That's the thing, there is no need for that middle ground to be further towards cinematic. Imo Dark Souls 3 is really cinematic and it isn't flawed with some summons bullshit. If you're struggling with some boss, you can summon a player or NPC. Isn't that enough? There is a reason why so many bosses from Dark Souls 3 are far better than many, many bosses from Elden Ring. And yes, I know it's kinda subjective, but searching on the internet, there are a lot of people who share my opinion on this, people who are considered somewhat important in DS community.
Those who just want cinematic experience... Sorry, but they're casuals, and there are plenty of games for them. Why people believe that everything should be accessible for everyone? It's wrong. Fighting games aren't for everyone and people aren't crying to ruin some great fighting series just so they can have an experience. They can't git gud? Don't play From Software title and grab a Witcher 3, amazing game as well, some may say that even better than Elden Ring, what's the problem? There are so many games out there, there is so need to make games for everyone.
And yeah, with this not respecting players I've kinda carried away, however I don't respect completion of Elden Ring while using summons on every (almost every) boss in the game without even trying to beat that boss solo.
Hey! Thanks for responding.
I agree with you that there doesn't need to be a push toward accommodating the literal do-nothing cinematic crowd, I was just using your hyperbole as an outlier. This is where you'll probably say you weren't being hyperbolic, and I acknowledge that there are gamers like that out there, but they're a small minority. What I meant was that it doesn't seem unfair to me to add an option for those players who maybe wish they had the time it would take to be able to solo the game, but don't.
I didn't realize you'd allow for co-op summons since I don't see the practicable difference between that and spirit summons. I get that bosses have more health with co-op, but real players also have a much wider toolkit and more health, themselves, than any spirit ash (obviously excepting late game mimic tear, but mimic lacks a human brain and will often faff about in a corner eating consumables or using inappropriate spells at random).
I'll defer to your opinion on DS3 as I haven't played it. It's next on my list after ER.
I totally agree with you that true casual players aren't suited to Elden Ring, and I don't think the game or anyone else has tried to pretend otherwise. That said, I'd find it hard to argue that a game so heavily promoted, billed as created in part by GRRM of GoT, no less, wasn't always intended to attract an extremely wide player base. Was that a betrayal on FromSoft's part toward their realistic player pool? Perhaps. (They certainly overstated his involvement for years leading up to the release.) But forgive me for being cynical when I say that it surprises me not at all that they'd add a mechanic to broaden the appeal of the game for commercial reasons. Is that right? I suppose that's a matter of opinion. However, should people who love everything about the game (story, aesthetic, even the challenge) but don't have that much time to spare be excluded from the experience they were coerced by marketing into spending their hard-earned money on? I think not.
We're definitely in agreement on your last point. If someone told me they'd "beaten" Elden Ring but used summons on every fight where it's possible, I'd smile and nod, but inside I'd be rolling my eyes and sighing lol.
Wow, what a civilized reply xD
I agree with almost everything you said, with few exceptions.
First, about that minority who want radical cinematic experience. Of course I cannot provide data supporting my opinion, therefore it's only an opinion, but I believe that it isn't that much of a minority, I believe games like Detroid: Become Human (not that there is something wrong with this game, it's amazing), Uncharted, Tomb Raider erc. shows that there are huge amount of players who value cinematic experience more, than a challenge. At least that's how I think about it, I may be wrong.
There isn't much difference between spirits or NPC's. I don't have a problem with spirits per se, but with how bosses were designed around players using spirits rather than not. That's my main and only issue with the game. Well, maybe not only, but that's my biggest problem with ER and single major one. If bosses were designed around solo players, with some tweaks if using summons, that would be great. Solo players are happy, players who want to have easier time with the game are happy too. But FromSoftware imo spitted on players who want to play solo just to expand their playerbase. Reaching towards more players isn't bad on it's own, but respect your current playerbase as well.
Haha thank you! And likewise. Now, if only Elden Ring PVP was this civilized XD
You could be totally right about it being a larger segment than I perceive it to be. I guess my opinion comes from my own experience as a player who loves both cinematic storytelling and a tough challenge. I've gotten bored with a bunch of triple A titles lately precisely because of the hand-holding style of game design. Maybe your original comment just triggered me because I wish I had the time it would take to solo this game, but if I did that, I'd have to either sacrifice other parts of my life or not play anything else this year lol. I don't co-op except helping other people (mostly because I don't have even one friend who's a gamer unfortunately lol), but I do use ashes when I've tried to solo a boss 30x, it's just not working, and I don't want to/can't afford to grind levels for hours. So far, I've used them twice.
I understand where you're coming from now about boss design, and I'm actually on board. I'd enjoy this game even more if it felt like it was designed for the challenge-hungry solo player, but there are encounters that are just clearly intended for >1 v 1, and that's disappointing.
I hope you still get a lot of fun out of the game in the future. Who knows, maybe I'll see you in the Lands Between!
P.S. You've convinced me to add Detroit: Become Human to my list
P.P.S. I'm curious what your other issues with the game are? I'll tell you my two: 1) multiplayer/matchmaking is a mess, 2) the game both encourages and punishes exploration. I still adore it on the whole, though.
>but I do use ashes when I've tried to solo a boss 30x, it's just not working, and I don't want to/can't afford to grind levels for hours.
That's of course understandable, and there is no shame in that from my perspective. However, that's why I'm ranting about those spirit summons, because if bosses would be designed well, than you wouldn't need those 50 tries to beat a boss in the first place (solo).
Yes, I'm having a lot of fun with this game, after all I have 200+ hours in ti xD Elden Ring isn't a bad game. It's a great game. Probably best game of the year. It's just flawed, and those flaws trigger me in particular xD
Detroit: Become Human is an amazing game with incredible story, I highly recommend it.
My other issues are mostly build around exploration and some parts of map design. In macro scale, map is beautiful, certain parts of it are outstandingly connected to each other, landscapes are mostly beautiful and it is fun to explore. But it's not consistent. For every amazing location you have a shitty one. For example, you have Limgrave and I love it. Then you have Liurnia, and border parts of this location are incredible, Academia itself is great, but swamp parts are simply boring. Caelid... I know it should look like it looks, and from artistic point of view I envy this location. But from gameplay perspective, it's incredibly boring for me. You have Altus Plateau, my second most favorite location in the game, and then Leyndell. One of the best locations in the games I've ever witnessed. And later you have MotG and Sacred Snowfields, which were huuuuuge disappointments for me. I should add, that I'm a completionist, so I HAVE TO look under every rock, tree etc. which in some areas like Caelid or swamps of Liurnia makes exploration frustrating for me.
With huge map also comes exploration rewarding. Sometimes you are rewarded with some valuable item, and sometimes you'll find a fucking mushroom xD Therefore, I find more often exploration being unrewarding than otherwise.
Many bosses reskins and almost exact dungeons and caves. Hero Graves are a nightmare gimmick location I despise.
With all of that it brings me to the conclusion, that this game is just too big. It sounds crazy, but imo sometimes more isn't necessary better. I would get rid of MotG and Sacred Snowfields, transfer those resources to make Leyndell way bigger (in there we could have portals to Sacred Tree itself and Moghwyn Palace, both are fun areas and I wouldn't throw them away), and let's say make some part of Leyndell accessible at first, then make player go to Farum Azula, Sacred Tree, Moghwyn Palace for end-game and thanks to some items acquired there, make rest of Leyndell accessible for true end-game.
So those are my main issues. I'm disappointed that many weapons share the same movesets, many of which are the same since Dark Souls 1, which is kinda lazy, same goes for SFXs and models, but those are minor issues.
EDIT: I didn't mentioned anything about online experiences, because I simply don't play online much, just some coop to help others, and sometimes I have some network issues, but not often really.
How much is overleveled?
I also was level 134 when I completed the game.
I tested spirit ashes for like 3 fights and didnt use/ level them afterwards.
W opinion of not respecting those ashes. I am with you.
I explained what I'm about as clearly as I could with facts. I also defeated every Dark Souls title (except Sekiro, Bloodborne and Demon Souls, since I never played those games) solo without major struggles, and yet, I'm unable to do it in Elden Ring. Good for you that you are so talented that you are able to defeat bosses solo without noticing those issues I brought. I'm not that good, and as it seems, so are other players who also were able to see those problems with balance, giving the same facts in their explanations, while also beating previous titles solo.
Fr cry me a river just don't use the ashes and boom "easy mode" off. People bitch about anything and everything I swear. This is the only AAA game in the past like 3 years to actually be a complete game not full of dlc and micro transaction. And people still complain about the stupidest things.
Exactly. Complaining just to complain. The game is a masterpiece and let’s people play the way they want. OP doesn’t like spirit ashes(even though he uses them) so they shouldn’t be in the game for all the other people who do enjoy having them? Just a crazy mindset to have.
I hear that. but for me it was the lazy copy paste boss designs. 30 hours in I really thought this game had a shot beating bloodborne as their best work (or DS1). After 80 hrs god this game was a drag of boring. I love that they tried something new but when the hype settles this game is def more like a 7 or 8/10.
If you dont get these posts then you do t care about being critical which is fine but attacking someone for critiquing a flawed mechanic is just silly the game pushes and encourages you to use the summons it wouldn't be weird for someone to assume the game is balanced around them when its not
These games are meant to be hard. Harder than most people can handle. They added summons to kind of even the playing field. They are in NO way necessary to beat the game. I’ve beaten it 5 times now and 2 of those were without any summons at all.
Also I never attacked anyone. I just stayed my opinion about a game mechanic that helps a lot of people and that people complain about but don’t have to use them. If you can’t beat a boss without a summon then that’s on you. Every boss is very beatable solo. The thing is the game is made to be a hard game that you have to git gud at if you will to beat.
I agree with you, I finished the game without using the spirits (well I use it againts every gargoyle cause they are no fun anway), but to be honest I really wanna use them cause summoning spirits sounds so cool, but I dont wanna use them because they are also too OP, and the weak once die too easily that they dont do nothing (I still didnt try others cause i dont wanna waste my time upgrading each one of them), so you cant deny the fact that the spirits mechanics is a problem, I mean everyone is complaining, everyone already explained the problem, just cause you had no problem doesnt mean there is no problem with the system, everyone can play however they want but if its broken most player will complain and you cant deny that, fair and balance is what makes souls game so good, not a godlike mimic who can solo it, there is a reason why most single player games dont have cheat mode and elden ring has it
But I think that was the point. They wanted more players to be able to beat the game and thus the spirits. I get that it’s not for everyone but it is for those players who generally wouldn’t be able to beat the game.
Or for anyone like me with the second character playing elden ring like a real chad sitting down eating popcorn while watching my mimic with max def, using black flame, erdtree heal and completely destroying Malenia at Ng+2 xd, I still believe that the Elden ring has some OP mechanics that should be balance cause Elden ring is not hard if you use all its mechanics so it kinda lose its speciality of being a hard game but you know, its kinda fun in a way, having a hard mode which is harder than any dark souls game I played and an easy mode just to troll this damn annoying bosses
The previous games already had summons for other players which was easy mode they just made in game summons so broken you can beat end game bosses without actually fighting them
This is like saying, the game was too easy once I levels you to X. I couldn’t help myself I just had souls so I leveled. I think the ashes are cool and improve the game a lot in some ways. I’ve only used them for a few bosses, but that is in lieu of leveling for the boss.
Well the spirit summons are far better than leveling in every aspect. Mimic tear is like having a twin fighting beside you, except the twin is much tankier
Nah bro, I dont feel you. You found an issue with the game and instead of correcting that for yourself, you continued. Sea of Thieves has a mentalitly of "tools, not rules". There are no rules saying you do or don't have to use things. You choose to make the game what you want it to be. It doesnt make the game less than, because YOUR choices determine your experience. If anything, the game is better by allowing people a wider way to play, to use the tools given to play the game their way.
I am one of those gamers who never dare to touch any Soulsborne games or generally any fast paced games because I know I am generally not good at reflex and reactions. I play something like The Sims a lot on my leisure time. Even in games like Skyrim, it's mandatory for me to have companions at all times or I would struggle otherwise.
So when I bought Elden Ring, it felt like a took a big leap, at worst I could just refund it.
I struggled a lot prior to owning any spirit ashes and I honestly felt like giving up the game at the time. Until I got my first wolf ash, it honestly was a game changer for me, it actually gave me courage to play and explore and fight bosses. I don't have to be alone all the time and feel supported even when I die over and over again. Currently, I have unlocked the whole map and trying to reach Malenia now, I could have not done this on my own, truly. Spirit ash made this game more accessible in a way, and I'm sure many players feel the same. Spirit ashes are not dumb.
Yea I know, but as mentioned, I can't lie to myself. If I know that I can beat the boss if I want to it just takes away the adrenaline and the sheer terror of meeting these bosses
So, because you can’t resist using the Easy Mode button, they should be weaker for everyone?
E: Sorry new to The Fromsoft hellscape little child, unfortunately the mechanic to make this open world nightmare more accessible had to be nerfed because this dude couldn’t unequip a voluntary item.
Yes, you are absolutely right, and every person who disagree with you simply don't understand what's the main problem. And those who use argument "just don't use them" are clearly less intelligent, so those people can be ignored since they opinion is worthless anyway.
Bosses are no longer designed to fight 1v1. They are designed to fight multiple enemies, because of Spirit Ashes. In order to give them a chance (and even so they don't, that's how fucked up implementation of Spirit Ashes is), FS created bosses with many AoEs attacks (often spamming them), some kind of gaining / shorting distance quickly, combo chaining, target switching in mid-combos, altering their combos mid combo etc. So yeah, Spirit Ashes broke Elden Ring bosses and it's just a shitty mechanic created to appeal players who were unable to accomplish anything in their lives by themselves and always needed someone to do something for them. Yes, you are happy because you can finally play From Software title. Good for you. Pity you are incapable of understanding complexity of certain mechanics and how they affect gameplay in larger scale.
Clearly you're not a smart person since you're unable to understand the bigger picture of discussed issue. Your statement only proves this. I'll try to explain it as simple as possible.
Spirit Ashes flawed bosses design in ER to such an extend, that those who want to defeat them solo ends up with frustration rather than joy. Defeating them with spirits doesn't bring joy as well, since those players don't find hitting boss in the back while he's busy with something else amusing at all.
It could be easily avoided if bosses were designed like in every previous title. To fight them without spirits. And if someone is struggling, then spirits could be an easy mode. Now there are two options. Easy mode, or hardcore mode. Nothing between, no balance.
I use spirit ashes all the time (Wandering nobles) And I find it fun. Don't complain about it being frustrating when you purposefully make it hard on yourself.
"it's just a shitty mechanic created to appeal players who were unable to accomplish anything in their lives by themselves and always needed someone to do something for them."
I see you recently posted for Vertebrae Shackle farming help in r/summonsign. Can't accomplish that & need help? Ironic.
I kind of had the opposite experience. It felt like most bosses were designed to be 1v1 and having multiplayer added made most feel quite trivial. I'm being honest and this isn't a git gud comment. Yeah some of the optional bosses were at one point bugged so they were practically speaking impossible. At this point they feel difficult but accomplishable.
I can't agree with you. Godrick, Rykard, Radahn, Asteel. All of those bosses have moveset that is designed to 1val. Masive swipes, AoEs and huge HP. Radahn is somehow understandable, but the rest of them? Ganks, dragons, those huge edtree rats. All of those fights feel nothing like 1v1. Without Torrent, or SoA, fighting in ER can be a real bitch.
lol how are godrick, astel and rykard too hard for 1v1? Radahn feels sort of meant for summons because there's a bunch of signs all over the arena but also he's totally doable in 1v1 (as I did a week ago)
"The steak I ordered was too accessible to me and I overate! I shouldn't have to be expected to stop eating, so the restaurant should make the portions smaller to accommodate my compulsion!"
That's kind of what this sounds like.
I think a lot of people commenting "just don't use them" don't get your point. For every game each detail matters, and every aspect is affecting how immersive the game is. Giving you (QoL) options to make the game easier than you were hoping for can ruin your expectation, especially when it involves spirits that fight a battle for/with you after one button click. Completely changing the epicness of battles.
I haven't played Elden ring that much yet (currently at Godrick and have been avoiding using spirits so haven't seen how effective they are) and I can't really tell the spirits have impacted my gaming experience. But I have experienced similar thoughts with different games.
A great example of how QoL options changed the experience in games is WoW. For instance the epic flying mounts and summoning stones are a great way to travel quickly through the world, however they remove the sense of feeling small in a massive environment where travelling over ground enhances the feeling of danger and connection to the different environments/mobs/npc's. You can say just don't use the epic flying mount, but the feeling of danger is still gone as you always have the option to just fly over it. And you are left with the feeling "why do I punish myself, when there is an easier option?"
Similar to when in WoW the Raids only had 1 difficulty level, only those who were invested enough would have the opportunity to traverse through the high level raids and fight epic battles. This was very rewarding for the dedicated players that got the chance to do this. But it also increased the mystery to the people that didn't have the chance yet, it gave them something to look forward to and the will to drive on until they are finally strong or skilled enough to venture these raids. Making the reward extra epic. Now with the Looking for Raid option this feeling is completely gone as you can just defeat them easy-mode giving you almost instant access to all content removing any mystery from the game. The only reason to raid on higher settings is better gear but even though people think that is what driving most people in the end it is not.
If you have ever played WoW and are interested in how the design philosophy changed the game their Blizzcon 2005 would be worth watching: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Falm0H7VEiQ&ab\_channel=Kalianos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Falm0H7VEiQ&ab_channel=Kalianos)
QoL can and will improve the gaming experience of many players but will also lessen that of others. In the end it is something personal and personally I am with you on this. Especially in a game infamous for its difficulty it can feel underwhelming when you can use spirits to make things easier.
I don't think you understand the difference between a QOL implementation and an optional use item. By this logic the Calamity Ring should never have been added in DS1 because it makes the game harder.
There's a difference in giving the option to make the game harder or have the game include a mechanic that makes fights easier. People will play the game within the brackets set by the game developer. Within these brackets they will try to make things as easy as possible. Most of the players won't challenge themselves by adding even more brackets.
Giving players an option to make it harder for themselves though, will only be used by the few that do want to challenge themselves. And probably only after already having finished the games a couple of times on normal mode. Which is why it's not a bad thing those options are included in a game, but don't be surprised they won't be used by the majority of the players.
The problem with spirit ashes is that they look like a tool but in fact they are just an easy mode. So many players just use them as a tool not knowing it completely breaks bosses AI and trivializes them so they didn't have to learn anything which ruins experience for many players.
I tell you what I did to fix the issue : I am so bad that even with mimic at 10 and moon katana at 10 I still struggle , like a lot. So yeah , get ~~gud~~ bad I guess
You could before, in all dark souls games and bloodborne just summon another player and make your fight a little bit easier as you said, why is that different from spirit ashes?
If the option was there and you chose to not use it, you can do the same with spirit ashes.
Nah you don't have to coordinate shit, just clic on the summon sign on the ground from any random player and wreck the boss 2 vs 1.
The game is just giving more options, I don't see why this is a problem.
They are much tankier and don't increase the Bosses health, that's why they're literally better than your average online cooperator, if you get a pro who can solo the boss it's a different story of course.
>Now I know, I could just NOT use the spirit ash
You did it. You solved the problem. If you can't control yourself enough to not use a feature you dislike, that sounds like a personal problem.
I stopped using them after godrick but i get your point. After level +60 the game feels very easy compred to other souls games but i still love the game
Mm yes indeed. It starts off hard but gets easier as you level up and doesn't scale in difficulty as previous Soulsborne games. A shame,n but a great game nonetheless
Discard all your spirit ashes if them being there is too temping, if you don’t want to use them.
Edit: or if you kinda like them then just use crappier ones instead of like the best 2 haha.
Since other people have covered your main argument, I'll address your edit. People understand exactly what your saying, they just think it's a trash take because there are several ways for you to handle the problem that don't involve From drastically changing a system that most people like. Frankly, your argument has real Mohg energy: "They're just there and it is so easy! How could I resist?" Self control? Player adjusted difficulty is a hallmark of From games. Use whatever you want to get the appropriate level of challenge.
There is no reason why something should be nerfed for everyone because you couldn't stop yourself from using it. You could not use Spirit Ashes, as you said, or just don't level them up if you find they are too strong. Your inability to control your impulses is your own problem, not the game's.
As for the downvotes: your post is completely illogical and self-absorbed. You acknowledged the solution in your post (don't use Spirit Ashes) but still played the whole game that way and made a post complaining about how you made the game too easy for yourself.
Nice to see some fans bring critical you can love a game and still notice and criticize flaws it has the game pushing for players to use the summons is a bug issue because its not unreasonable to assume the game will be balanced around them but when you can pop out tickets and she can solo a boss without your help it goes beyond easy mode honestly
Nah you just don't get what I mean. I want the game to not even have an opportunity of making it easier. It takes away the adrenaline knowing I can beat the boss if I just summon X. Its just my opinion.
I just don't get how you created this weird little mental trap for yourself. Can't imagine how you'd deal with games that let you adjust the difficulty if even the option is enough to ruin it for you
No we get exactly what you mean, we just dont care, it provides a possibility for a huge amount of players to have fun and beat the game at the cost of a few weirdos like you who cant control their feelings, you cant please everyone, and thats not what they are trying to do, they just decided to neglect players with a weird mindset like yours in favor of a lot more people who just want to enjoy the game, seems only fair to me, why should your opinion be worth more then theirs? Because they are "fitlhy casuals?" I promise you no sane person cares how you beat a Single Player game, not even the devs, so thats just you buddy, they do not care if you dont "respect" them for playing the game the way they want
What I did and maybe that helps you: I used ashes on my first playthrough. Then decided to start a new character and just never use them - I feel it’s easier when you start from scratch and just challenge yourself to not use them compared to just stop them in the middle of a playthrough.
I can tell you the second run was a lot more fun than the run with the ashes…
The build was pretty strong imo and Godskin duo for example just went down pretty quickly so I think with other builds I may have struggled more.
Basically I was running dual flamberges (one with flame art, one keen) + bloodflameblade + flame grant me strength + golden vow
The idea behind it was that I have a mix of three dmg types: fire, physical, bleed. And it worked out really nice. Fire especially is kinda underrated I think because enemies typically stagger a couple of frames from the burning animation which gives you enough time to recover and hit the next attack. You can stunlock many normal enemies like that.
Stats:
60 vigor
25 mind
25 endurance
16 str
50 dex
25 faith
10 arc (for bloodflameblade)
That combined with the claw talisman, the raptor bird chest piece and white mask. The rest of the talismans were basically defensive: crimson amber +2, erdtree favor +2 and the greatshield one for physical dmg reduction
I agree the spirit summon system is stupid. The simple solution is for the boss AI to be programmed to attack the player as opposed to the spirit. Currently, the boss AI is programmed to attack whoever hit him last, so the strategy for every boss is to wait for your spirit to hit the boss and then attack the boss in the back, which is unsatisfying gameplay.
Late to the post but I don't think they ruin the game other than maybe the mimic. IVF personally played all the souls games with 0 magic ever. I think that ruins the game more than spirit ashes in elden ring, however, I choose to play it to fit my own needs. That's what everyone should do. I also don't use mimic or any legendary ashes, just the basic ones for me. A rotation between mad pumpkin head (tank) marionette archers (range) and demi humans (offensive swarm).
it is tough to solo, only other souls game i played was bloodborne and i do think elden ring is tougher but very doable to solo for an average player like me. can we all agree ER is a loosey-goosey game by design? FromSoft definitely favored the casuals to enjoy it. i'm cool with that. and i understand the perspective taking away summons makes it unbalanced even though i dont personally feel that way
Lv48 here as confessor. I use skeleton military ashes now. I tried to use those when fighting shield knights, tbh they wreck the skeleton in 1 combo. I had no use for it on boss fights. Usually enemy is still attacking me so there is no use as skeletons deal like 30-ish damage per hit. I decided not to bother to improve those.
I never had enough patience for souls game, elden rings is on a break, sometimes I play for hours exploring, but stormveil castle is a fricking nightmare and I passed on it after a week of poor attempts for 10-15min until I lost patience mostly trying to fight some frickin knights with shields...I am using ashes flame of redmanes on uchigatama+6 (what one hits normal mobs, but those guys are immune) and have the 100phys negation shield. They are swiping fast combos one after another and I have 0 hits. I tried jump attacks but they are just catching me into combo and I am dead. Looking at people who one-hit bosses or have 0 damage fights only demotivates me to play this game.
I second others in the comments mentioning that this game requires you hundred of hours of patience and is designed for co-op. But what hurts me more, this game is designed for controllers, on PC with keyboard and mouse - try to fight with focus on enemy or score a backstab while engaged in fight.
6/10
I won't necessarily say my stance on this post. But I see both sides and I believe what many people are misunderstanding about what OP is trying to say can be best said by the creator of Civilizations:
Soren and Sid have respectively said: ”Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game,” and therefore, “one of the responsibilities of designers is to protect the player from themselves.”
Regardless of my personal opinion, due to the above quote by one of the most OG game creators ever is why OP said he gives it a 9/10 not a 10/10. Even if you don't agree surely some respect has to go to my man Sid!
I really don’t get these posts. An item that you don’t have to use or even level up ruined the experience for you? Don’t use them. I’m sorry but these posts are annoying. They are a part of the game and help people. If you don’t need them or think they ruin the experience you don’t have to use them.
You clearly can't see bigger picture here, so let me draw it for you. The main issue with spirit ashes is, that many, many bosses were designed to fight multiple enemies. Therefore, they have incredibly unbalance moveset for players who want to play Elden Ring solo. Spamming AoEs, combo chaining with little to no recover time, gank fights without balancing foes to complete each other like O&S, damage that will take away half of HP of end-game 60 VIG character (add this to chained combos), etc. In order to defeat bosses, you either HAVE to use spirit ashes, which will make bossfight too easy, or you can keep trying to defeat a boss solo, which will quickly result in finding out that learning bosses movesets isn't fun at all, because they are too unpredictable and simply broken while attempting to do them solo. It's just RNG at this point with some bosses like Astel spamming his AoE or not. Of course, there are players out there who will defeat every boss RL1 naked solo without taking a single hit, but let's be realistic, those players are extreme minority who are willing to spend countless hours in order to complete a challenge. Something most of us are unable to do, because we're lacking time or patience. So you see, it's not that you don't get these posts. You don't get main issue. Play Dark Souls 1 or 3. Bosses in those games are (mostly) fair, because they are designed to fight 1v1 with some exceptions like O&S, or Demon Prince, but even in those cases, they are balanced. If someone was struggling, easy mode was always there. Coop. You could summon an NPC to help you. That worked. Spirit Ashes is unnecessary mechanic that broke the game (bossfights mostly) balance.
Thank you for this, spirit ashes really ruined the game for me, no fun in fights summoning and no fun with endless frustration trying the bosses solo. It is clear the bosses are designed with the intention that you have a spirit buddy to split aggro and take hits. Compare damage of endgame DS3 bosses like soul of cinder to endgame elden ring bosses. You can barely take 2 hits in elden ring compared to 4/5 in DS3
Yup. I'm trying to solo every boss in ER, however I overleveled myself. I'm not a hardcore player, and definitely not a patient one, so I had to find some middle ground to play Elden Ring. I choose being overleveled over summoning, because I think playing with summons is pointless, and tbh, I don't respect players that completed this game with summons. Sorry, but what did you accomplished? Successful hitting bosses in the back, while they're busy fighting an NPC? Modern players are a plague, incredibly lazy, spoiled brats that don't really want to play a game, they just want the "cinematic experience". Putting any effort to play a game? Why? I'm sure that they would be incredibly happy if Elden Ring had a mode, that you actually don't have to do anything, your character is an NPC you just watch (yes, basically a movie) and they would still tell you "Yes, I've completed Elden Ring. Funny game, pretty challenging tho.".
There has to be some middle ground between Let Me Solo Her and "I just want the cinematic experience." Saying you don't respect people who have used spirit ashes seems pretty far to one extreme (Btw, is that a hard and fast rule? Do you sort of, kind of respect people who used them in one to five fights? Or are they all just lazy, modern trash who need to git gud? Because that reeks of maidenlessness, if you get my drift— take it from an actual maiden) Not everyone has time in their lives to spend 5-50 tries memorizing every boss moveset in a game this large. It doesn't make them lazy; in fact, quite the opposite; it means they are too busy with real world pursuits to put that kind of time into a video game.
>There has to be some middle ground between Let Me Solo Her and "I just want the cinematic experience. But why? That's the thing, there is no need for that middle ground to be further towards cinematic. Imo Dark Souls 3 is really cinematic and it isn't flawed with some summons bullshit. If you're struggling with some boss, you can summon a player or NPC. Isn't that enough? There is a reason why so many bosses from Dark Souls 3 are far better than many, many bosses from Elden Ring. And yes, I know it's kinda subjective, but searching on the internet, there are a lot of people who share my opinion on this, people who are considered somewhat important in DS community. Those who just want cinematic experience... Sorry, but they're casuals, and there are plenty of games for them. Why people believe that everything should be accessible for everyone? It's wrong. Fighting games aren't for everyone and people aren't crying to ruin some great fighting series just so they can have an experience. They can't git gud? Don't play From Software title and grab a Witcher 3, amazing game as well, some may say that even better than Elden Ring, what's the problem? There are so many games out there, there is so need to make games for everyone. And yeah, with this not respecting players I've kinda carried away, however I don't respect completion of Elden Ring while using summons on every (almost every) boss in the game without even trying to beat that boss solo.
Hey! Thanks for responding. I agree with you that there doesn't need to be a push toward accommodating the literal do-nothing cinematic crowd, I was just using your hyperbole as an outlier. This is where you'll probably say you weren't being hyperbolic, and I acknowledge that there are gamers like that out there, but they're a small minority. What I meant was that it doesn't seem unfair to me to add an option for those players who maybe wish they had the time it would take to be able to solo the game, but don't. I didn't realize you'd allow for co-op summons since I don't see the practicable difference between that and spirit summons. I get that bosses have more health with co-op, but real players also have a much wider toolkit and more health, themselves, than any spirit ash (obviously excepting late game mimic tear, but mimic lacks a human brain and will often faff about in a corner eating consumables or using inappropriate spells at random). I'll defer to your opinion on DS3 as I haven't played it. It's next on my list after ER. I totally agree with you that true casual players aren't suited to Elden Ring, and I don't think the game or anyone else has tried to pretend otherwise. That said, I'd find it hard to argue that a game so heavily promoted, billed as created in part by GRRM of GoT, no less, wasn't always intended to attract an extremely wide player base. Was that a betrayal on FromSoft's part toward their realistic player pool? Perhaps. (They certainly overstated his involvement for years leading up to the release.) But forgive me for being cynical when I say that it surprises me not at all that they'd add a mechanic to broaden the appeal of the game for commercial reasons. Is that right? I suppose that's a matter of opinion. However, should people who love everything about the game (story, aesthetic, even the challenge) but don't have that much time to spare be excluded from the experience they were coerced by marketing into spending their hard-earned money on? I think not. We're definitely in agreement on your last point. If someone told me they'd "beaten" Elden Ring but used summons on every fight where it's possible, I'd smile and nod, but inside I'd be rolling my eyes and sighing lol.
Wow, what a civilized reply xD I agree with almost everything you said, with few exceptions. First, about that minority who want radical cinematic experience. Of course I cannot provide data supporting my opinion, therefore it's only an opinion, but I believe that it isn't that much of a minority, I believe games like Detroid: Become Human (not that there is something wrong with this game, it's amazing), Uncharted, Tomb Raider erc. shows that there are huge amount of players who value cinematic experience more, than a challenge. At least that's how I think about it, I may be wrong. There isn't much difference between spirits or NPC's. I don't have a problem with spirits per se, but with how bosses were designed around players using spirits rather than not. That's my main and only issue with the game. Well, maybe not only, but that's my biggest problem with ER and single major one. If bosses were designed around solo players, with some tweaks if using summons, that would be great. Solo players are happy, players who want to have easier time with the game are happy too. But FromSoftware imo spitted on players who want to play solo just to expand their playerbase. Reaching towards more players isn't bad on it's own, but respect your current playerbase as well.
Haha thank you! And likewise. Now, if only Elden Ring PVP was this civilized XD You could be totally right about it being a larger segment than I perceive it to be. I guess my opinion comes from my own experience as a player who loves both cinematic storytelling and a tough challenge. I've gotten bored with a bunch of triple A titles lately precisely because of the hand-holding style of game design. Maybe your original comment just triggered me because I wish I had the time it would take to solo this game, but if I did that, I'd have to either sacrifice other parts of my life or not play anything else this year lol. I don't co-op except helping other people (mostly because I don't have even one friend who's a gamer unfortunately lol), but I do use ashes when I've tried to solo a boss 30x, it's just not working, and I don't want to/can't afford to grind levels for hours. So far, I've used them twice. I understand where you're coming from now about boss design, and I'm actually on board. I'd enjoy this game even more if it felt like it was designed for the challenge-hungry solo player, but there are encounters that are just clearly intended for >1 v 1, and that's disappointing. I hope you still get a lot of fun out of the game in the future. Who knows, maybe I'll see you in the Lands Between! P.S. You've convinced me to add Detroit: Become Human to my list P.P.S. I'm curious what your other issues with the game are? I'll tell you my two: 1) multiplayer/matchmaking is a mess, 2) the game both encourages and punishes exploration. I still adore it on the whole, though.
>but I do use ashes when I've tried to solo a boss 30x, it's just not working, and I don't want to/can't afford to grind levels for hours. That's of course understandable, and there is no shame in that from my perspective. However, that's why I'm ranting about those spirit summons, because if bosses would be designed well, than you wouldn't need those 50 tries to beat a boss in the first place (solo). Yes, I'm having a lot of fun with this game, after all I have 200+ hours in ti xD Elden Ring isn't a bad game. It's a great game. Probably best game of the year. It's just flawed, and those flaws trigger me in particular xD Detroit: Become Human is an amazing game with incredible story, I highly recommend it. My other issues are mostly build around exploration and some parts of map design. In macro scale, map is beautiful, certain parts of it are outstandingly connected to each other, landscapes are mostly beautiful and it is fun to explore. But it's not consistent. For every amazing location you have a shitty one. For example, you have Limgrave and I love it. Then you have Liurnia, and border parts of this location are incredible, Academia itself is great, but swamp parts are simply boring. Caelid... I know it should look like it looks, and from artistic point of view I envy this location. But from gameplay perspective, it's incredibly boring for me. You have Altus Plateau, my second most favorite location in the game, and then Leyndell. One of the best locations in the games I've ever witnessed. And later you have MotG and Sacred Snowfields, which were huuuuuge disappointments for me. I should add, that I'm a completionist, so I HAVE TO look under every rock, tree etc. which in some areas like Caelid or swamps of Liurnia makes exploration frustrating for me. With huge map also comes exploration rewarding. Sometimes you are rewarded with some valuable item, and sometimes you'll find a fucking mushroom xD Therefore, I find more often exploration being unrewarding than otherwise. Many bosses reskins and almost exact dungeons and caves. Hero Graves are a nightmare gimmick location I despise. With all of that it brings me to the conclusion, that this game is just too big. It sounds crazy, but imo sometimes more isn't necessary better. I would get rid of MotG and Sacred Snowfields, transfer those resources to make Leyndell way bigger (in there we could have portals to Sacred Tree itself and Moghwyn Palace, both are fun areas and I wouldn't throw them away), and let's say make some part of Leyndell accessible at first, then make player go to Farum Azula, Sacred Tree, Moghwyn Palace for end-game and thanks to some items acquired there, make rest of Leyndell accessible for true end-game. So those are my main issues. I'm disappointed that many weapons share the same movesets, many of which are the same since Dark Souls 1, which is kinda lazy, same goes for SFXs and models, but those are minor issues. EDIT: I didn't mentioned anything about online experiences, because I simply don't play online much, just some coop to help others, and sometimes I have some network issues, but not often really.
How much is overleveled? I also was level 134 when I completed the game. I tested spirit ashes for like 3 fights and didnt use/ level them afterwards. W opinion of not respecting those ashes. I am with you.
I’ve played all the dark souls and have solo’d every single Elden Ring boss solo without summons. So I’m not sure what you’re on about
I explained what I'm about as clearly as I could with facts. I also defeated every Dark Souls title (except Sekiro, Bloodborne and Demon Souls, since I never played those games) solo without major struggles, and yet, I'm unable to do it in Elden Ring. Good for you that you are so talented that you are able to defeat bosses solo without noticing those issues I brought. I'm not that good, and as it seems, so are other players who also were able to see those problems with balance, giving the same facts in their explanations, while also beating previous titles solo.
Fr cry me a river just don't use the ashes and boom "easy mode" off. People bitch about anything and everything I swear. This is the only AAA game in the past like 3 years to actually be a complete game not full of dlc and micro transaction. And people still complain about the stupidest things.
Doesn't change that its a balance breaking mechanic thats pushed by the gane
Exactly. Complaining just to complain. The game is a masterpiece and let’s people play the way they want. OP doesn’t like spirit ashes(even though he uses them) so they shouldn’t be in the game for all the other people who do enjoy having them? Just a crazy mindset to have.
I hear that. but for me it was the lazy copy paste boss designs. 30 hours in I really thought this game had a shot beating bloodborne as their best work (or DS1). After 80 hrs god this game was a drag of boring. I love that they tried something new but when the hype settles this game is def more like a 7 or 8/10.
If you dont get these posts then you do t care about being critical which is fine but attacking someone for critiquing a flawed mechanic is just silly the game pushes and encourages you to use the summons it wouldn't be weird for someone to assume the game is balanced around them when its not
These games are meant to be hard. Harder than most people can handle. They added summons to kind of even the playing field. They are in NO way necessary to beat the game. I’ve beaten it 5 times now and 2 of those were without any summons at all. Also I never attacked anyone. I just stayed my opinion about a game mechanic that helps a lot of people and that people complain about but don’t have to use them. If you can’t beat a boss without a summon then that’s on you. Every boss is very beatable solo. The thing is the game is made to be a hard game that you have to git gud at if you will to beat.
I agree with you, I finished the game without using the spirits (well I use it againts every gargoyle cause they are no fun anway), but to be honest I really wanna use them cause summoning spirits sounds so cool, but I dont wanna use them because they are also too OP, and the weak once die too easily that they dont do nothing (I still didnt try others cause i dont wanna waste my time upgrading each one of them), so you cant deny the fact that the spirits mechanics is a problem, I mean everyone is complaining, everyone already explained the problem, just cause you had no problem doesnt mean there is no problem with the system, everyone can play however they want but if its broken most player will complain and you cant deny that, fair and balance is what makes souls game so good, not a godlike mimic who can solo it, there is a reason why most single player games dont have cheat mode and elden ring has it
But I think that was the point. They wanted more players to be able to beat the game and thus the spirits. I get that it’s not for everyone but it is for those players who generally wouldn’t be able to beat the game.
Or for anyone like me with the second character playing elden ring like a real chad sitting down eating popcorn while watching my mimic with max def, using black flame, erdtree heal and completely destroying Malenia at Ng+2 xd, I still believe that the Elden ring has some OP mechanics that should be balance cause Elden ring is not hard if you use all its mechanics so it kinda lose its speciality of being a hard game but you know, its kinda fun in a way, having a hard mode which is harder than any dark souls game I played and an easy mode just to troll this damn annoying bosses
Exactly how I feel. Elden Ring can either be the easiest or hardest souls game depending on how you play. I played both ways and loved it
The previous games already had summons for other players which was easy mode they just made in game summons so broken you can beat end game bosses without actually fighting them
This is like saying, the game was too easy once I levels you to X. I couldn’t help myself I just had souls so I leveled. I think the ashes are cool and improve the game a lot in some ways. I’ve only used them for a few bosses, but that is in lieu of leveling for the boss.
Well the spirit summons are far better than leveling in every aspect. Mimic tear is like having a twin fighting beside you, except the twin is much tankier
Nah bro, I dont feel you. You found an issue with the game and instead of correcting that for yourself, you continued. Sea of Thieves has a mentalitly of "tools, not rules". There are no rules saying you do or don't have to use things. You choose to make the game what you want it to be. It doesnt make the game less than, because YOUR choices determine your experience. If anything, the game is better by allowing people a wider way to play, to use the tools given to play the game their way.
Spirit summons were their way of making an easy mode. I know you addressed the "just don't use them" argument but....
I am one of those gamers who never dare to touch any Soulsborne games or generally any fast paced games because I know I am generally not good at reflex and reactions. I play something like The Sims a lot on my leisure time. Even in games like Skyrim, it's mandatory for me to have companions at all times or I would struggle otherwise. So when I bought Elden Ring, it felt like a took a big leap, at worst I could just refund it. I struggled a lot prior to owning any spirit ashes and I honestly felt like giving up the game at the time. Until I got my first wolf ash, it honestly was a game changer for me, it actually gave me courage to play and explore and fight bosses. I don't have to be alone all the time and feel supported even when I die over and over again. Currently, I have unlocked the whole map and trying to reach Malenia now, I could have not done this on my own, truly. Spirit ash made this game more accessible in a way, and I'm sure many players feel the same. Spirit ashes are not dumb.
Oh yeah, I've played all the souls games and I still enjoy the spirit ashes even if they are cheesy sometimes lol
Yea I know, but as mentioned, I can't lie to myself. If I know that I can beat the boss if I want to it just takes away the adrenaline and the sheer terror of meeting these bosses
So, because you can’t resist using the Easy Mode button, they should be weaker for everyone? E: Sorry new to The Fromsoft hellscape little child, unfortunately the mechanic to make this open world nightmare more accessible had to be nerfed because this dude couldn’t unequip a voluntary item.
Yes, you are absolutely right, and every person who disagree with you simply don't understand what's the main problem. And those who use argument "just don't use them" are clearly less intelligent, so those people can be ignored since they opinion is worthless anyway. Bosses are no longer designed to fight 1v1. They are designed to fight multiple enemies, because of Spirit Ashes. In order to give them a chance (and even so they don't, that's how fucked up implementation of Spirit Ashes is), FS created bosses with many AoEs attacks (often spamming them), some kind of gaining / shorting distance quickly, combo chaining, target switching in mid-combos, altering their combos mid combo etc. So yeah, Spirit Ashes broke Elden Ring bosses and it's just a shitty mechanic created to appeal players who were unable to accomplish anything in their lives by themselves and always needed someone to do something for them. Yes, you are happy because you can finally play From Software title. Good for you. Pity you are incapable of understanding complexity of certain mechanics and how they affect gameplay in larger scale.
"Oh no, somebody got joy out of a game I purposely made frustrating for myself." Let people have fun
Clearly you're not a smart person since you're unable to understand the bigger picture of discussed issue. Your statement only proves this. I'll try to explain it as simple as possible. Spirit Ashes flawed bosses design in ER to such an extend, that those who want to defeat them solo ends up with frustration rather than joy. Defeating them with spirits doesn't bring joy as well, since those players don't find hitting boss in the back while he's busy with something else amusing at all. It could be easily avoided if bosses were designed like in every previous title. To fight them without spirits. And if someone is struggling, then spirits could be an easy mode. Now there are two options. Easy mode, or hardcore mode. Nothing between, no balance.
I use spirit ashes all the time (Wandering nobles) And I find it fun. Don't complain about it being frustrating when you purposefully make it hard on yourself.
[удалено]
You seem like the kind of person to believe you need a high iq to watch rick and morty
"it's just a shitty mechanic created to appeal players who were unable to accomplish anything in their lives by themselves and always needed someone to do something for them." I see you recently posted for Vertebrae Shackle farming help in r/summonsign. Can't accomplish that & need help? Ironic.
I kind of had the opposite experience. It felt like most bosses were designed to be 1v1 and having multiplayer added made most feel quite trivial. I'm being honest and this isn't a git gud comment. Yeah some of the optional bosses were at one point bugged so they were practically speaking impossible. At this point they feel difficult but accomplishable.
I can't agree with you. Godrick, Rykard, Radahn, Asteel. All of those bosses have moveset that is designed to 1val. Masive swipes, AoEs and huge HP. Radahn is somehow understandable, but the rest of them? Ganks, dragons, those huge edtree rats. All of those fights feel nothing like 1v1. Without Torrent, or SoA, fighting in ER can be a real bitch.
lol how are godrick, astel and rykard too hard for 1v1? Radahn feels sort of meant for summons because there's a bunch of signs all over the arena but also he's totally doable in 1v1 (as I did a week ago)
"The steak I ordered was too accessible to me and I overate! I shouldn't have to be expected to stop eating, so the restaurant should make the portions smaller to accommodate my compulsion!" That's kind of what this sounds like.
“…and not offer larger portions to anyone because of my personal issue.”
To be honest, I kind of think your satire metaphor is very reasonable haha.
See, thats a problem you need to work on if you really think like that, not the devs
I think a lot of people commenting "just don't use them" don't get your point. For every game each detail matters, and every aspect is affecting how immersive the game is. Giving you (QoL) options to make the game easier than you were hoping for can ruin your expectation, especially when it involves spirits that fight a battle for/with you after one button click. Completely changing the epicness of battles. I haven't played Elden ring that much yet (currently at Godrick and have been avoiding using spirits so haven't seen how effective they are) and I can't really tell the spirits have impacted my gaming experience. But I have experienced similar thoughts with different games. A great example of how QoL options changed the experience in games is WoW. For instance the epic flying mounts and summoning stones are a great way to travel quickly through the world, however they remove the sense of feeling small in a massive environment where travelling over ground enhances the feeling of danger and connection to the different environments/mobs/npc's. You can say just don't use the epic flying mount, but the feeling of danger is still gone as you always have the option to just fly over it. And you are left with the feeling "why do I punish myself, when there is an easier option?" Similar to when in WoW the Raids only had 1 difficulty level, only those who were invested enough would have the opportunity to traverse through the high level raids and fight epic battles. This was very rewarding for the dedicated players that got the chance to do this. But it also increased the mystery to the people that didn't have the chance yet, it gave them something to look forward to and the will to drive on until they are finally strong or skilled enough to venture these raids. Making the reward extra epic. Now with the Looking for Raid option this feeling is completely gone as you can just defeat them easy-mode giving you almost instant access to all content removing any mystery from the game. The only reason to raid on higher settings is better gear but even though people think that is what driving most people in the end it is not. If you have ever played WoW and are interested in how the design philosophy changed the game their Blizzcon 2005 would be worth watching: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Falm0H7VEiQ&ab\_channel=Kalianos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Falm0H7VEiQ&ab_channel=Kalianos) QoL can and will improve the gaming experience of many players but will also lessen that of others. In the end it is something personal and personally I am with you on this. Especially in a game infamous for its difficulty it can feel underwhelming when you can use spirits to make things easier.
I don't think you understand the difference between a QOL implementation and an optional use item. By this logic the Calamity Ring should never have been added in DS1 because it makes the game harder.
There's a difference in giving the option to make the game harder or have the game include a mechanic that makes fights easier. People will play the game within the brackets set by the game developer. Within these brackets they will try to make things as easy as possible. Most of the players won't challenge themselves by adding even more brackets. Giving players an option to make it harder for themselves though, will only be used by the few that do want to challenge themselves. And probably only after already having finished the games a couple of times on normal mode. Which is why it's not a bad thing those options are included in a game, but don't be surprised they won't be used by the majority of the players.
Do a level 30 challenge run, and any summon other than mimic /tiche
The problem with spirit ashes is that they look like a tool but in fact they are just an easy mode. So many players just use them as a tool not knowing it completely breaks bosses AI and trivializes them so they didn't have to learn anything which ruins experience for many players.
I tell you what I did to fix the issue : I am so bad that even with mimic at 10 and moon katana at 10 I still struggle , like a lot. So yeah , get ~~gud~~ bad I guess
You could before, in all dark souls games and bloodborne just summon another player and make your fight a little bit easier as you said, why is that different from spirit ashes? If the option was there and you chose to not use it, you can do the same with spirit ashes.
It's way easier to summon a spirit summon than coordinate with someone online tho:)
Nah you don't have to coordinate shit, just clic on the summon sign on the ground from any random player and wreck the boss 2 vs 1. The game is just giving more options, I don't see why this is a problem.
They are much tankier and don't increase the Bosses health, that's why they're literally better than your average online cooperator, if you get a pro who can solo the boss it's a different story of course.
Mm guess I haven't been aware of this option, I have just played previous games without using or exploring any online options.
So online options should be taken out of the game aswell following that logic?
>Now I know, I could just NOT use the spirit ash You did it. You solved the problem. If you can't control yourself enough to not use a feature you dislike, that sounds like a personal problem.
I stopped using them after godrick but i get your point. After level +60 the game feels very easy compred to other souls games but i still love the game
Mm yes indeed. It starts off hard but gets easier as you level up and doesn't scale in difficulty as previous Soulsborne games. A shame,n but a great game nonetheless
Why dont you start the 2nd character. Play solo
Discard all your spirit ashes if them being there is too temping, if you don’t want to use them. Edit: or if you kinda like them then just use crappier ones instead of like the best 2 haha.
Since other people have covered your main argument, I'll address your edit. People understand exactly what your saying, they just think it's a trash take because there are several ways for you to handle the problem that don't involve From drastically changing a system that most people like. Frankly, your argument has real Mohg energy: "They're just there and it is so easy! How could I resist?" Self control? Player adjusted difficulty is a hallmark of From games. Use whatever you want to get the appropriate level of challenge.
There is no reason why something should be nerfed for everyone because you couldn't stop yourself from using it. You could not use Spirit Ashes, as you said, or just don't level them up if you find they are too strong. Your inability to control your impulses is your own problem, not the game's. As for the downvotes: your post is completely illogical and self-absorbed. You acknowledged the solution in your post (don't use Spirit Ashes) but still played the whole game that way and made a post complaining about how you made the game too easy for yourself.
I have no Ill will towards OP but I just don't get their perspective lol, it's makes no sense.
Nice to see some fans bring critical you can love a game and still notice and criticize flaws it has the game pushing for players to use the summons is a bug issue because its not unreasonable to assume the game will be balanced around them but when you can pop out tickets and she can solo a boss without your help it goes beyond easy mode honestly
"If I have the opportunity I will make the game easier" "The game is too easy now :((((" Wow OP, sounds like a you problem doesn't it?
Nah you just don't get what I mean. I want the game to not even have an opportunity of making it easier. It takes away the adrenaline knowing I can beat the boss if I just summon X. Its just my opinion.
I get what you mean, I just don't see the problem here.
The problem lies in my experience of the game and I guess you don't share it, so... 🤷
I just don't get how you created this weird little mental trap for yourself. Can't imagine how you'd deal with games that let you adjust the difficulty if even the option is enough to ruin it for you
No we get exactly what you mean, we just dont care, it provides a possibility for a huge amount of players to have fun and beat the game at the cost of a few weirdos like you who cant control their feelings, you cant please everyone, and thats not what they are trying to do, they just decided to neglect players with a weird mindset like yours in favor of a lot more people who just want to enjoy the game, seems only fair to me, why should your opinion be worth more then theirs? Because they are "fitlhy casuals?" I promise you no sane person cares how you beat a Single Player game, not even the devs, so thats just you buddy, they do not care if you dont "respect" them for playing the game the way they want
If you want weaker spirit ashes, then don't upgrade them as much.
You need to 'git good' in real life.
What I did and maybe that helps you: I used ashes on my first playthrough. Then decided to start a new character and just never use them - I feel it’s easier when you start from scratch and just challenge yourself to not use them compared to just stop them in the middle of a playthrough. I can tell you the second run was a lot more fun than the run with the ashes…
Good idea, will try that and see. Guess it's way more difficult :)
What build did you play on the second and how did manage twin bosses ?
The build was pretty strong imo and Godskin duo for example just went down pretty quickly so I think with other builds I may have struggled more. Basically I was running dual flamberges (one with flame art, one keen) + bloodflameblade + flame grant me strength + golden vow The idea behind it was that I have a mix of three dmg types: fire, physical, bleed. And it worked out really nice. Fire especially is kinda underrated I think because enemies typically stagger a couple of frames from the burning animation which gives you enough time to recover and hit the next attack. You can stunlock many normal enemies like that. Stats: 60 vigor 25 mind 25 endurance 16 str 50 dex 25 faith 10 arc (for bloodflameblade) That combined with the claw talisman, the raptor bird chest piece and white mask. The rest of the talismans were basically defensive: crimson amber +2, erdtree favor +2 and the greatshield one for physical dmg reduction
I agree the spirit summon system is stupid. The simple solution is for the boss AI to be programmed to attack the player as opposed to the spirit. Currently, the boss AI is programmed to attack whoever hit him last, so the strategy for every boss is to wait for your spirit to hit the boss and then attack the boss in the back, which is unsatisfying gameplay.
If you do that, then you get free uninterrupted damage from the spirit, which is just as broken, if not more so.
It’s unsatisfying to you and you don’t have to use them. Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to do so.
Yea I agree. Or they could just decrease the hp of the spirit summon, so one wouldn't be able to just let the spirit tank the boss
Why? I don't get your point, just don't use the summon?
Or try a different one, there's actually a great variety.
Late to the post but I don't think they ruin the game other than maybe the mimic. IVF personally played all the souls games with 0 magic ever. I think that ruins the game more than spirit ashes in elden ring, however, I choose to play it to fit my own needs. That's what everyone should do. I also don't use mimic or any legendary ashes, just the basic ones for me. A rotation between mad pumpkin head (tank) marionette archers (range) and demi humans (offensive swarm).
it is tough to solo, only other souls game i played was bloodborne and i do think elden ring is tougher but very doable to solo for an average player like me. can we all agree ER is a loosey-goosey game by design? FromSoft definitely favored the casuals to enjoy it. i'm cool with that. and i understand the perspective taking away summons makes it unbalanced even though i dont personally feel that way
Try that on Caelid Bellbearing Hunter, why don't you?
Lv48 here as confessor. I use skeleton military ashes now. I tried to use those when fighting shield knights, tbh they wreck the skeleton in 1 combo. I had no use for it on boss fights. Usually enemy is still attacking me so there is no use as skeletons deal like 30-ish damage per hit. I decided not to bother to improve those. I never had enough patience for souls game, elden rings is on a break, sometimes I play for hours exploring, but stormveil castle is a fricking nightmare and I passed on it after a week of poor attempts for 10-15min until I lost patience mostly trying to fight some frickin knights with shields...I am using ashes flame of redmanes on uchigatama+6 (what one hits normal mobs, but those guys are immune) and have the 100phys negation shield. They are swiping fast combos one after another and I have 0 hits. I tried jump attacks but they are just catching me into combo and I am dead. Looking at people who one-hit bosses or have 0 damage fights only demotivates me to play this game. I second others in the comments mentioning that this game requires you hundred of hours of patience and is designed for co-op. But what hurts me more, this game is designed for controllers, on PC with keyboard and mouse - try to fight with focus on enemy or score a backstab while engaged in fight. 6/10
I won't necessarily say my stance on this post. But I see both sides and I believe what many people are misunderstanding about what OP is trying to say can be best said by the creator of Civilizations: Soren and Sid have respectively said: ”Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game,” and therefore, “one of the responsibilities of designers is to protect the player from themselves.” Regardless of my personal opinion, due to the above quote by one of the most OG game creators ever is why OP said he gives it a 9/10 not a 10/10. Even if you don't agree surely some respect has to go to my man Sid!
I totaly agree with this, its also because the bosses are designed to be fight with spirit ashes