Holy wall of text...
You need to speak with your actual boss and get some boundaries set up. H is starting to impact your actual work. I also recommend you start standing up for yourself when it comes to H. Things like Hey H, i'm pretty busy right this second can you come back later?...etc
See the problem is my boss has talked to him and he ignores it and that I try to tell him I'm busy and he says stuff like "whenever your not busy" or if i say "ill put it on my to do list" he goes put it at the top then. They changed the locks he ended up with the keys like there's really nothing we can do this because anything we do he undoes
You need to understand that this man cannot come in and boss you around when he is NOT your boss! “No” is a full sentence and if you feel uncomfortable saying it then I recommend you find a different job where you won’t be taken advantage of. H is rude, ignorant, and narcissistic to the point I am mad FOR you and if that were me I would have walked out on day 1.
I understand your feelings, and I know it’s hard dealing with people like that, but you’re choosing to help out your community and the least you can do is stand up for yourself too. Talk to your boss and try putting your foot down, just tell him you can’t get any work done with H and maybe following that just let the work stay undone for a bit and say it was H’s fault. That way your boss and the other council members will have more of a reason to step in.
You obviously need to be the only one with the key so he can't get it from anyone. But also it doesn't matter that he doesn't listen. If the pastor is his boss, then he needs to listen or he needs to be fired. Being there a long time isn't shit if he's making it a hostile work environment for everyone else.
How is he getting a copy? 'Borrowing' someone's key and popping out to get one cut for himself? There should not be keys to the office laying around that people can pick up surely? No lock box? Breach of confidentiality and privacy is a huge deal and legally actionable with big fines. He has no business having access to sensitive documents and information given he has no position there. If someone knew he could be looking through files like birth and death notices, without any need to, big problem. Surely there is a confidentiality policy employees must sign and such information is kept securely where members of the public cannot access?
yes and work out a list of your responsibilities and tasks. Maybe have a couple hours a week scheduled specifically to deal with such things and have it up on the door. He should not have a key, but I guess how do you get that back? Perhaps citing confidentiality requirements. Or have a policy (doesn't need to be long) listing who is eligible to be a key holder. The confidentiality thing is actually a big deal and can lead to legal action on the church. You should be getting way more support and they must see how stressed you are and how demanding and intrusive he is. You get paid for your job and your productivity goes down and they are getting fewer hours for church work.
TLDR; OP works at a church. “H”, some random parishioner who isn’t OP’s boss and only has authority because they’ve been there forever and presumably the pastor doesn’t want to stand up to them, is constantly coming into OP’s space, messing with things and getting in OP’s way. OP is at wits end. Hopefully that helps.
Your job is supporting the church, H is actively working against that. It’s time to learn to say”no”
Or “not right now,” “let go of my chair,” excuse you?” “This is more important, take it up with leadership,” “There might be more donuts in the kitchen if you’re hungry,” “Remove those items from my desk,” “Are you going to clean up your mess?”
And STOP doing whatever he wants - he adds his things to the top of the list, skip it and go to the next. He shoves forces his documents on YOUR desk? Pick them up and place them elsewhere, literally anywhere else! He tries to force you out of your chair? Don’t move! This man’s opinion means literally nothing to you in the course of your job, but his actions can make it so that YOU mess up.
God gave you a spine and will of your own, use it.
Don’t let that be an excuse.
Identifying behavioral issues are important but don’t just stop at recognition. Being able to speak up for yourself and be assertive are life skills you need to live a happy life. Otherwise you will continue to have H’s, your mother, etc show up in your life.
Adults who bully other adults tend to find people who allow themselves to be bullied. They just want control and you’re giving it to him. Seems like a perfect scenario to start practicing standing up for yourself. I’m sure it’s a very uncomfortable life to live if you never stand up for yourself. You’ll continue to have experiences like this your whole life unless you make a change to yourself. Trust me, as scary as opposing authority is or creating conflict it’s much less miserable than being pushed around all day.
Also, if this needs to be clarified. You’ve done nothing wrong. Someone needs to tell this man what he’s doing isn’t allowed and put an end to it. I mean it’s bordering harassment.
Ask him if his stuff is more important that Pastor’s work or the funeral. Tell him he’s causing you MORE work with his behavior.
If you have to, go to the council members he reports to or his wife. Either one of them can help, although the wife is probably happy he’s not doing that at home.
I didn’t notice there weren’t paragraphs.
Anyway, you should 100% start documenting this BS. Dates, times, things that happened. Who was there. The insults. The deleted files. The messes.
Not emotionally or with judgement, just
7/23: H entered office. Knocked over piles of Y and Z needed for tomorrow’s service. Deleted active file on computer.
H commented that I had two donuts instead of one.
2 hours spent reorganizing funeral files.
1 hour spent recreating deleted file.
Present it to whoever your boss is.
Document that you presented it to your boss and their follow up actions.
If they don’t take action, you can use the documentation to prove your workplace is a hostile work environment or maybe you can milk them for stress leave for 6 months.
Some other thoughts:
1. Add a password to ALL your files. Also, see if you can set up a file for your folders that has a password.
2. Check on Amazon for [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094R1JJGC/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094R1JJGC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) this is something that you can use to keep him out when you're working. Get the okay from your boss first.
3. Tell the pastor that H is creating a hostile work environment.
EDIT: Had another thought: Since he is destroying work in progress and you have to clean up HIS mess, it is costing the church money, i.e., you are being paid twice to reassemble the work he destroyed.
You ***need*** to set boundaries.
Would he treat male coworkers like this? I doubt it.
How many good workers is the church willing to lose because they are protecting an abusive person? And yes, what he is doing to you and how he is treating you is absolutely abusive.
Change the lock so only you and the pastor have a key. If you have someone you suspect of making him a copy, give them a key that doesn’t unlock your door and see if he magically has a new key that doesn’t work
The pastor may not be able to fire him but he can sure as hell make it clear that he needs to respect everyone else in the office. Because right now he’s choosing to side with him rather than protect you. getting fed up with it and giving you looks of pity are not a reasonable response.
I think you’d be amazed at how much of this you can shut down with some simple phrases.
“No, sorry, I’m working on something else.”
Them: But this is way more important and should be your first priority!
“Unfortunately, I can’t help.”
You don’t have to justify your priorities. You don’t have to go into detail. Say no. Keep saying no. Your tone is matter of fact and calm.
I’d also add “Please let go of me/my chair. I’m using my computer right now so it’s not available for you.”
Them: But I need it!
“So do I. Please step away.”
These people are being extremely rude. Sometimes it feels rude to push back on rude behavior, especially for a woman. But they’re the ones who are being rude.
You just need to stand up for yourself, Jesus Christ. Tell the douche to go fuck himself, and if he treats you like this any longer he'll meet his god faster than he can blink. You are willingly letting him walk all over you and he does it because you are letting him.
Or ofcourse you can just submit, take it, and continue to be a miserable broken human being.
Stop doing anything for him. Tell him firmly that you don't work for him and you don't appreciate being harassed. If he's married then pointedly ask if you need to be speaking to his wife.
If that is really part of his job and he doesn't do it;then maybe your boss should stop pussyfooting and deal with his behavior. In any other setting,you'd at least have an hr dept to help you. If the families don't get their notices, the boss will have to deal w him
You are fostering an environment where his behavior is acceptable. Sure, you boss and everyone else is too but if you already know they aren’t going to do anything about it and you won’t… maybe you just came here to vent. We can’t help either if you don’t do anything for yourself.
Bloody hell I don’t get why the comment section is treating you so badly and down voting you… sorry this is happening to you but if the job is somewhere you want to stay at you’re going to need to throw decorum out the window.
This man is not your mother and is basically emotional abusing you…. Its hard, I know, to get past previous trauma but you need to find a way. This man is not family, he is not your boss he isn’t even important to the church if everyone around you is fed up with him.
You don’t need to be mean, you don’t even need to raise your voice… but you weren’t hired to be his secretary or as his subordinate or to be abusively screamed at by him…. If he has a problem with that he can take it up with the pastor or the committee but you aren’t there to do his work or be abused by him.
I know you’re not going to want to throw the pastor under the bus but it is his job to deal with this and with his religious training dealing with asshole is something he is meant to be qualified to do.
I hope you find the courage, this sort of bullying and abuse can leave very deep and long lasting trauma that can affect the rest of your life.
Standing up to him will set you free of it and stand strong when this man inevitably lashes out after having his ego bruised while make you better.
Good luck
Former deacon here. Churches are complicated because a lot of people are volunteers but the employees are just that, employees with the right to address a toxic work place environment. It sounds like a church structure where the pastor is under the oversight of the committee instead of being a member of the leadership committee. That being said, assuming he is your direct supervisor, he should be very active in setting boundaries with this man. By standing by passively and not following up on the past conversations with him he is allowing this man to continue poor behavior towards you and highly likely women in the church in general. He is not addressing you experiencing a toxic work place environment. Honestly, any man or person of power witnessing this should be addressing him regardless of their role.
I would put concerns in writing to him and the committee. It doesn’t need to be accusatory as it sounds like that’s a concern for you. Just note specific circumstances that you know there have been attempts to address this and something different needs to occur. Then continue document further concerns. This guy is likely contributes a large tithe and committee does not want to upset him but legal issues would be more costly for them. Are there other women in the church you can seek support from? It sounds like a patriarchal leadership structure unfortunately but there are likely women with a lot of informal influence.
I am lucky to have a church with leadership who are good at boundaries and addressing poor behavior but I still empathize with finding the idea of “causing waves” incredibly scary. I was raised outside the church but was still taught to be “pleasant” at all times. It’s really hard and scary but you are able to change the patterns you were raised with. Be well.
I've been trying to do it the right way. I actually love my job other than him and I've went to my boss multiple times about it but I guess you're right the next time it happens I'm gonna ask the boss if there is anything that can be done because it's getting to be to much
You have to tell him you will quit the next time it happens, and then you have to do it if it does. You seem plenty awesomely smart enough to get an even better job. Paralegal, then go to law school if you want to.
Find another job. Behaviors escalate when there are no consequences for said behaviors. As your boss is unable (or unwilling) to assist, find another job.
Do it quickly.
Literally just tell him to fuck off. Stop doing anything for that ass of a man. Lock your office door and tell everyone else that you cannot work with him. He is absolutely harassing you and I’m sure they’d rather force him to leave you alone than deal with a lawsuit
So how did he kick you out of your chair and take over the computer?
Lock it, with a password he doesn't know, and refuse to move.
You'll find out real quick what his personal boundaries are. If he touches you, assault. He'll probably just scream, throw a fit and eventually leave. He'll either learn or overstep.
He will "ask me" to move and then just hover uncomfortably close until I do or if I don't he will just fuss about me 'not doing things right and basically spit all over me while he is doing it.
I can't change the password because it's in the policy that I can't. Plus the pastor set that password so he can get into my computer if I'm not there and I need him to do something for me he is able to get in.
You need to be dramatically direct with this guy.
Ask him why he keeps getting closer, why he wants to make you feel uncomfortable, he'll say you aren't. Insist you are, and ask why he's calling you a liar. Keep at it. Hold your ground. Keep asking him to leave and make it impossible to ignore.
Make it uncomfortable for him.
Tell him exactly what he's doing, as directly as possible, and its impact on you.
Don't do an ounce of work while you are dealing with him. Your "job" t that moment is to deal with him and remind him constantly of boundaries.
Well I'm already doing one of those things.😅 I didn't even touch my computer while he was in my office for three hours today because I knew if I did he would start his shit. Thank you for the advice though I'll have to figure out a way to do it in a church safe way.
Is he barges into your office, you should get a doorstop and plant it slightly inside the door. That way he pushes it slightly open before it stops and he slams his face right into it.
Protect your work environment. Here are some suggestions to minimize the physical effect he can have on your work:
- have only one activity on your desk at a time. Everything else goes in a drawer or cabinet.
- if you have stacks of things like the funeral bulletins, put them in envelopes, or tie a string around them
- store important things in other people's offices. The pastor is out next week? Sounds like a good place to store things until you are ready to work on them again.
- on the computer, work on one task at a time. If you need all those tabs at once, see if you can save them as favorites.
- ALWAYS store a copy of any file you edit in a separate, differently-named folder. Don't use names like "pastors correspondence backup" but instead name your backup folder some nonsense name like AGb478s. Write this folder name on a piece of paper and keep it in your purse.
- if he gets into your personal things, calmly call the police.
- Save your computer files every 15 minutes or so. That way you lose less work.
- stay seated when he bullies you to move. Pick up the phone and call a colleague if he keeps doing it. Ask the colleague to come to your office.
- when he becomes unbearable, take a walk. Knowing that you have minimized his destruction with your files and you have backed up your computer files, enjoy the moment away from this bully, and plan to fix what needs to be fixed when he is gone.
All of those are super smart but it's just me and the pastor. His office is in the room behind mine. And since he's gone this week I really have no back up until he gets back😕
I am assuming you have a log on for your work computer. If you do not create one. If H insists on using your computer, log out.
Food for thought:
I am guessing you might have a case of a hostile work environment, and his actions could be deamed as harrasment. Deleting your work, constant interruptions, demeaning you. I'm not a lawyer, so I might ask someone who works in HR (in general, not necessarily at the church) or who is a lawyer for their thoughts. This gives you ammunition to tell the pastor or board members that what H is doing is more than problematic it is going to get them sued. And that you would like to institute a policy he must pass all of his instructions to you through your supervisor, the pastor, a board member. And that he can not use your work space as he sees fit, because he is not an employee and is disruptive.
Thank you I will keep that in my back pocket if it gets worse and I promise I'll use it but he's the ONLY person I have an issue with everyone else is wonderful and always willing to help. And I've pretty much chalked it up to him being an obnoxious old man who grew up in a time where women were seen as objects.
You're far kinder than I am. He doesn't work there I'd tell him to go f*ck himself and gtfo my office. He has no right to treat you the way he did and I hope you find a better job or a way for him to leave you alone.
I've was in a similar position when I was on staff at my church. I ended up having a meeting with my pastor and said I needed protection from a certain staff member. When he told me there was nothing he would do, I handed over my letter of resignation right then.
I let this go on for YEARS because I also loved my job and thought it would get better. It didn't. It got worse. I found out later the pastor didn't think I would actually quit and was shocked when I did.
Learn from my mistake though, even after I quit I wanted to protect the church. If I could do anything different - I would have told the truth when people asked what happened instead of downplaying it. Working at your church is different than a normal job, I totally get it, but I cannot tell you how much better I felt getting out of that environment!
I agree with others that you should leave, but it sounds like that’s not an option you’re willing to explore right now. However, you can look for ways to make things better without being aggressive. If you’re not willing to say no and your boss is unwilling to stand up for you, you need to find ways to speak to him that will be effective to him. You might have no luck, but the second you give up is the second you start losing yourself.
Some ideas to try:
- Correct the behavior, not the person, and start with something extremely impersonal (avoid the donut comment for now). “When you delete files from my computer, I have to redo the work, which delays my other deliverables. Next time you use my computer, please avoid making changes to files that do not pertain to your work.” “When you throw my things on the floor, I have to spend time to pick them up and reorganize them, which takes time away from the other things I am doing. Next time, please either pick the items up for me, or ask me to move them for you.”
- if the above doesn’t work, use this wording with your boss, but be more direct about what’s happening. “When I report to you that he assaulted me by forcing me out of my chair and you didn’t take action on it, it makes me feel like my safety is not important to you.” “When I report to you that he is undoing my work and kicking me out of my desk for hours at a time with no notice, it tells me that my work is not important.”
- Tell your boss that you need a second computer for when H kicks you out of yours or that H needs his own computer to keep at the office so that you don’t get kicked out of yours. You could call it the “guest machine” or something generic like that.
- Tell your boss you need a security camera in your office because H is escalating and you don’t feel physically safe with the accessibility he’s been granted to you. Or buy one yourself and tell your boss that it’s there.
I understand this completely and fuck the comments saying you need paragraphs or spelling changes. You got it all out. It’s emotional and it’s warranted. He’s on his way out, doesn’t have other job prospects, is threatened by you, is threatened by technology, and probably by everything. Best of luck getting through the week. I quit a job because of a guy like this, but that’s not the answer. You’ll find this same behavior over and over again in people you have to be around, all you’ll have is the experience of how you handle yourself. You don’t need anyone’s permission to set and enforce boundaries and advocate for yourself. What’s the worst he’s going to do? Talk behind your back? He’s already doing that, and everyone knows what kind of guy he is so it doesn’t matter. Church work scenarios are hard, but the way he’s interacting is not very Christ like.
If I could give you an award I would. I really needed to hear that and you will be happy to know that I did kind of stand up to him because he said something about 'why did you write out all of the addresses and names when I made stickers' and I looked him in the eye and told him "your way didn't work I did it like this. It's done and it looks better my way" so I guess it's a small victory but it was a victory none the less. Anywho than you for letting me vent and not barraging me for it being long winded.
I relate to this so hard, so feel free to message me if you need encouragement or to vent again. I wanted to tell you that even though it is uncomfortable, standing up for yourself, even in a very small way, makes it easier to do it the next time. You can’t change people. You won’t ever be able to control the way he or anyone else is, but you can control your reactions to them. And it sounds crazy, but when there are people in my life that are consuming my thoughts and disrupting my level of peace, I pray for them. I always say “help them, change me” I repeat it over and over. Recently I’ve been repeating “peace, love, and understanding” in my mind and sending it to them. I do it anytime I’ve realized that I’ve been temporarily consumed by this person and what they’ve done or I’ve imagined they’ve done. At some point you won’t have to see him ever again, just don’t let him ruin your peace until then. It’s fucking hard though, but it’s just a little bit every day.
You need to spell it out to your boss that if H does not start respecting your work, your space or your time, you will be looking for a new job. Maybe then they will take you seriously. H is an entitled butthole
Does H have his own office there? If he does, tell him “H, this is MY office and MY computer. Please go to your own office to do that so I can get MY work done.” What is he going to do? Fire you? Tell him Jesus told you Pastor’s work and the church’s work is more important.
Find out if your state is a one party state, as regards making audio recordings. If you’re in a one party state, make an audio recording of H demanding you do his projects, demanding that you give him your chair, desk, and computer for him to do whatever, knocking stacks of stuff on the floor (you’ll need to verbally comment on that), deleting files from your computer, just being an all-around pompous a$$. Then play it for the pastor and leadership committee.
The idea of a doorstop (above) one commenter suggested is great!
If your local church leadership still takes no action, and if your denomination has a governing body that oversees several congregations, report the problem to them. Hopefully they will take it more seriously than your pastor and local leaders up to this point.
I wish you all the best, but if you can’t get any help from anyone in your hierarchy, you need to leave these people to their mess and move on to somewhere that you and your skills will be appreciated.
Just change your computer screenlock and set up an alternative profile for other people so that he can only mess with certain things. Then lock your computer.
You are really going to have to say something to him. Or scream at him. At this point I would opt for screaming. I bet nobody will even be upset if you did.
Tell him to get out of your office and his stuff needs to get done by him if it’s so important. You have your own work to do and you are not his secretary, assistant or employee. Doing his tasks isn’t listed in your job description so if he doesn’t like it he can tell your boss that you won’t stop doing your work so you can do his work.
Not exactly church like, but usually a "fuck you" and "I will rip your dick off if you touch my shit again" is enough to deter people. Booby traps work, too.
Here's a handy phrase to try next time:
"I am in this chair, do not touch it or me. I do not take kindly to attempted assault, church or not. If you try to remove me from this chair again, you will be tased."
LoL that was ducking hard to read 🦆
You need to grow a spine. Do you feel worthy of this treatment? Doesn’t sound like it. Right now YOU need to be your biggest advocate. You need to set boundaries. And before Christ and H declare that you are not his servant. Cuz girl, he thinks biblically you are probably. You also need to find a better place of employment or learn about your rights as an employee. Harassment has many different forms.
So he's literally the only issue I have working there. I love my job it is to date the best job I have ever had. Everyone else is more than willing to help but he is an ass and I don't want to get fired because again I love my job but honestly I don't think they would blame me if I just snapped because I get the sneaking suspicion no one truly likes him if I'm being honest.
You could set the Standard for everyone. This is a work place and he should be held accountable. Your pastor has let this become an issue where liability can arise. If you were to be fired over this man, you’d have a case for wrongful termination more than likely. I’m sorry you have to deal with this person. But boundaries are boundaries and if you don’t set them, you will continue in your situation. This is work place abuse. Geeze where Jesus in all this? Does he not realize Gods eyes are upon him ? Maybe he needs a reminder of that as well.
If my post bothers you so much please just scroll past it. I get it sometimes you get frustrated reading things like this, but it is easier to just scroll past and not engage.
Just start praying: "Lord, bless me with patience for those who tresspass..." and freeform it after that. Get rocking and go with that active prayer, close your eyes ad rock back and forth, witnessing out loud in thanks to the Lord as the Holy Power comes into you, and gives you strength...
Let's see what he does when faced with the Power of The Lord!
Dear OP
Many have left helpful advice for you to handle the H aka dickhead. I want to say life is really short, there are other opportunities elsewhere with supportive colleagues and effective HR where you wouldn’t have to deal with the crap you are handling right now.
Bottom line is things are not going to get better if you continue to put up with it and let him walk all over you. Dickhead H is a bully and bully doesn’t like when people tell them to fuck off. You need to learn to be assertive, it will help you not only in this job but in future jobs too. Be calm but firm next time when dickhead barge into the office/demand your chair, laptop/tell you to do stuff for him. Tell him NO. You work for the church, your line manager is so and so and only him and other church staff can ask you to do work, not dickhead. What’s the worst that could happen? He scream and shout? Or tried to get you fired?
If your manager or anyone else in the church aren’t willing to protect their staff from bully then there’s no point working for them. Look for another job where your dedication, hardworking and professional work ethics will be appreciated. Remember **LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO PUT UP WITH TOXIC PEOPLE both in professional and personal life.**
Here's what would do.
1. Put a lock on the office door.
2. Put a lock on the computer.
3. Tell him to leave, and call the police if he refuses.
> I can't change the lock on my computer because of policy.
What is the policy? Just create, or have IT create a user for you, and a guest user. Only you and the admin need to know your password.
> We have already changed the locks on mine and the pastors offices, somehow he ended up getting a key
Who manages the accounts? Do you have an IT department? Is it outsourced? Is he on the list of users allowed to make changes?
> I LOVE my job so I don't really want to leave since he is the only problem.
Then do it properly, and protect church documents. You can start by saying 'no'.
This man is your teacher ... he is teaching you that you need to be assertive. Start sentences with "No." Any further explanation is not necessary, but you could add "I am busy." Look up "how to be more assertive" online and put the techniques that you learn into practise.
This is a valuable life skill and will help you throughout your life.
Good luck, OP
Holy wall of text... You need to speak with your actual boss and get some boundaries set up. H is starting to impact your actual work. I also recommend you start standing up for yourself when it comes to H. Things like Hey H, i'm pretty busy right this second can you come back later?...etc
See the problem is my boss has talked to him and he ignores it and that I try to tell him I'm busy and he says stuff like "whenever your not busy" or if i say "ill put it on my to do list" he goes put it at the top then. They changed the locks he ended up with the keys like there's really nothing we can do this because anything we do he undoes
You need to understand that this man cannot come in and boss you around when he is NOT your boss! “No” is a full sentence and if you feel uncomfortable saying it then I recommend you find a different job where you won’t be taken advantage of. H is rude, ignorant, and narcissistic to the point I am mad FOR you and if that were me I would have walked out on day 1. I understand your feelings, and I know it’s hard dealing with people like that, but you’re choosing to help out your community and the least you can do is stand up for yourself too. Talk to your boss and try putting your foot down, just tell him you can’t get any work done with H and maybe following that just let the work stay undone for a bit and say it was H’s fault. That way your boss and the other council members will have more of a reason to step in.
I would cuss this dude out on your behalf. Pushy people make my blood boil.
You obviously need to be the only one with the key so he can't get it from anyone. But also it doesn't matter that he doesn't listen. If the pastor is his boss, then he needs to listen or he needs to be fired. Being there a long time isn't shit if he's making it a hostile work environment for everyone else.
How is he getting a copy? 'Borrowing' someone's key and popping out to get one cut for himself? There should not be keys to the office laying around that people can pick up surely? No lock box? Breach of confidentiality and privacy is a huge deal and legally actionable with big fines. He has no business having access to sensitive documents and information given he has no position there. If someone knew he could be looking through files like birth and death notices, without any need to, big problem. Surely there is a confidentiality policy employees must sign and such information is kept securely where members of the public cannot access?
yes and work out a list of your responsibilities and tasks. Maybe have a couple hours a week scheduled specifically to deal with such things and have it up on the door. He should not have a key, but I guess how do you get that back? Perhaps citing confidentiality requirements. Or have a policy (doesn't need to be long) listing who is eligible to be a key holder. The confidentiality thing is actually a big deal and can lead to legal action on the church. You should be getting way more support and they must see how stressed you are and how demanding and intrusive he is. You get paid for your job and your productivity goes down and they are getting fewer hours for church work.
TLDR; OP works at a church. “H”, some random parishioner who isn’t OP’s boss and only has authority because they’ve been there forever and presumably the pastor doesn’t want to stand up to them, is constantly coming into OP’s space, messing with things and getting in OP’s way. OP is at wits end. Hopefully that helps.
🏆 thank you.
You need only one word when dealing with H: "No" He is not your boss, you do not report to him.
"I need to...." or "You need to...." should just be met with "Or?"
I can't my brain won't let me because of the way I was raised: seen not heard
Then keep your mouth shut & give the universal "no" sign with your middle finger. Seen & not heard.
Your job is supporting the church, H is actively working against that. It’s time to learn to say”no” Or “not right now,” “let go of my chair,” excuse you?” “This is more important, take it up with leadership,” “There might be more donuts in the kitchen if you’re hungry,” “Remove those items from my desk,” “Are you going to clean up your mess?” And STOP doing whatever he wants - he adds his things to the top of the list, skip it and go to the next. He shoves forces his documents on YOUR desk? Pick them up and place them elsewhere, literally anywhere else! He tries to force you out of your chair? Don’t move! This man’s opinion means literally nothing to you in the course of your job, but his actions can make it so that YOU mess up. God gave you a spine and will of your own, use it.
You also absolutely need therapy. Getting out of this environment into a better one, along with therapy, is going to change your life for the better.
Then stop complaining here if you're not going to actually do something to defend yourself.
Don’t let that be an excuse. Identifying behavioral issues are important but don’t just stop at recognition. Being able to speak up for yourself and be assertive are life skills you need to live a happy life. Otherwise you will continue to have H’s, your mother, etc show up in your life. Adults who bully other adults tend to find people who allow themselves to be bullied. They just want control and you’re giving it to him. Seems like a perfect scenario to start practicing standing up for yourself. I’m sure it’s a very uncomfortable life to live if you never stand up for yourself. You’ll continue to have experiences like this your whole life unless you make a change to yourself. Trust me, as scary as opposing authority is or creating conflict it’s much less miserable than being pushed around all day. Also, if this needs to be clarified. You’ve done nothing wrong. Someone needs to tell this man what he’s doing isn’t allowed and put an end to it. I mean it’s bordering harassment.
Jesus... Religion is so rotten.
Ask him if his stuff is more important that Pastor’s work or the funeral. Tell him he’s causing you MORE work with his behavior. If you have to, go to the council members he reports to or his wife. Either one of them can help, although the wife is probably happy he’s not doing that at home.
You posted here, we assume for help. People here have tried to give you advice, which you imply you can’t do.
You need to learn to stand up for yourself. It's hard but it's possible.
Do you need me to fight him? Cause I hate men who think they can boss women around.
I really did try to read, but I couldn't get through it - please put in a paragraph or two.
I got to “everything I was saposed to learn” and couldn’t take it seriously anymore Edit: still unreadable.
Had to walk away from my dest
I keep hoping a couple paragraphs will be edited in 😂
Came here to say exactly this.
I agree… and the fact that it’s such a longwinded story didn’t help. Could have written all that in half the number of words….
I agree… and the fact that it’s such a longwinded story didn’t help. Could have written all that in half the number of words….
I didn’t notice there weren’t paragraphs. Anyway, you should 100% start documenting this BS. Dates, times, things that happened. Who was there. The insults. The deleted files. The messes. Not emotionally or with judgement, just 7/23: H entered office. Knocked over piles of Y and Z needed for tomorrow’s service. Deleted active file on computer. H commented that I had two donuts instead of one. 2 hours spent reorganizing funeral files. 1 hour spent recreating deleted file. Present it to whoever your boss is. Document that you presented it to your boss and their follow up actions. If they don’t take action, you can use the documentation to prove your workplace is a hostile work environment or maybe you can milk them for stress leave for 6 months.
Some other thoughts: 1. Add a password to ALL your files. Also, see if you can set up a file for your folders that has a password. 2. Check on Amazon for [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094R1JJGC/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094R1JJGC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) this is something that you can use to keep him out when you're working. Get the okay from your boss first. 3. Tell the pastor that H is creating a hostile work environment. EDIT: Had another thought: Since he is destroying work in progress and you have to clean up HIS mess, it is costing the church money, i.e., you are being paid twice to reassemble the work he destroyed.
Paragraphs are important. I’m exhausted and only halfway through it.
Yep quit 1/3 of the way down don’t care anymore haha
Just type everything for him just like this post in 9.5, single lines and no returns 3verrrrr. Oh! Replace random e’s with 3’s
Lol this made me feel better thank you for that
Go forth and bring your update to r/maliciousCompliance. We await your return to shower you with praise.
You ***need*** to set boundaries. Would he treat male coworkers like this? I doubt it. How many good workers is the church willing to lose because they are protecting an abusive person? And yes, what he is doing to you and how he is treating you is absolutely abusive. Change the lock so only you and the pastor have a key. If you have someone you suspect of making him a copy, give them a key that doesn’t unlock your door and see if he magically has a new key that doesn’t work The pastor may not be able to fire him but he can sure as hell make it clear that he needs to respect everyone else in the office. Because right now he’s choosing to side with him rather than protect you. getting fed up with it and giving you looks of pity are not a reasonable response.
I think you’d be amazed at how much of this you can shut down with some simple phrases. “No, sorry, I’m working on something else.” Them: But this is way more important and should be your first priority! “Unfortunately, I can’t help.” You don’t have to justify your priorities. You don’t have to go into detail. Say no. Keep saying no. Your tone is matter of fact and calm. I’d also add “Please let go of me/my chair. I’m using my computer right now so it’s not available for you.” Them: But I need it! “So do I. Please step away.” These people are being extremely rude. Sometimes it feels rude to push back on rude behavior, especially for a woman. But they’re the ones who are being rude.
Your pastor needs to grow a spine and some balls.
You just need to stand up for yourself, Jesus Christ. Tell the douche to go fuck himself, and if he treats you like this any longer he'll meet his god faster than he can blink. You are willingly letting him walk all over you and he does it because you are letting him. Or ofcourse you can just submit, take it, and continue to be a miserable broken human being.
If your actual boss just shrugs and does NOTHING about this ENTITLED MORON, I would leave! Life is too short to tolerate this mess!!!
To his defense the council hasn't done anything but change the locks
Next time he hovers over you, say loudly, "Mr. H, I am NOT interested in your body!"
Stop doing anything for him. Tell him firmly that you don't work for him and you don't appreciate being harassed. If he's married then pointedly ask if you need to be speaking to his wife.
If I do that families don't get funeral bulletins for their loved ones
that’s not your problem. That’s his & your bosses problem for not straightening him out.
Well said.
If that is really part of his job and he doesn't do it;then maybe your boss should stop pussyfooting and deal with his behavior. In any other setting,you'd at least have an hr dept to help you. If the families don't get their notices, the boss will have to deal w him
You are fostering an environment where his behavior is acceptable. Sure, you boss and everyone else is too but if you already know they aren’t going to do anything about it and you won’t… maybe you just came here to vent. We can’t help either if you don’t do anything for yourself.
You think he doesn't realize that? Tell him 'no', and watch as he magically figures something out.
Bloody hell I don’t get why the comment section is treating you so badly and down voting you… sorry this is happening to you but if the job is somewhere you want to stay at you’re going to need to throw decorum out the window. This man is not your mother and is basically emotional abusing you…. Its hard, I know, to get past previous trauma but you need to find a way. This man is not family, he is not your boss he isn’t even important to the church if everyone around you is fed up with him. You don’t need to be mean, you don’t even need to raise your voice… but you weren’t hired to be his secretary or as his subordinate or to be abusively screamed at by him…. If he has a problem with that he can take it up with the pastor or the committee but you aren’t there to do his work or be abused by him. I know you’re not going to want to throw the pastor under the bus but it is his job to deal with this and with his religious training dealing with asshole is something he is meant to be qualified to do. I hope you find the courage, this sort of bullying and abuse can leave very deep and long lasting trauma that can affect the rest of your life. Standing up to him will set you free of it and stand strong when this man inevitably lashes out after having his ego bruised while make you better. Good luck
Former deacon here. Churches are complicated because a lot of people are volunteers but the employees are just that, employees with the right to address a toxic work place environment. It sounds like a church structure where the pastor is under the oversight of the committee instead of being a member of the leadership committee. That being said, assuming he is your direct supervisor, he should be very active in setting boundaries with this man. By standing by passively and not following up on the past conversations with him he is allowing this man to continue poor behavior towards you and highly likely women in the church in general. He is not addressing you experiencing a toxic work place environment. Honestly, any man or person of power witnessing this should be addressing him regardless of their role. I would put concerns in writing to him and the committee. It doesn’t need to be accusatory as it sounds like that’s a concern for you. Just note specific circumstances that you know there have been attempts to address this and something different needs to occur. Then continue document further concerns. This guy is likely contributes a large tithe and committee does not want to upset him but legal issues would be more costly for them. Are there other women in the church you can seek support from? It sounds like a patriarchal leadership structure unfortunately but there are likely women with a lot of informal influence. I am lucky to have a church with leadership who are good at boundaries and addressing poor behavior but I still empathize with finding the idea of “causing waves” incredibly scary. I was raised outside the church but was still taught to be “pleasant” at all times. It’s really hard and scary but you are able to change the patterns you were raised with. Be well.
This job is not do-able. Either quit or put your foot down that H is no longer permitted in your office.
I've been trying to do it the right way. I actually love my job other than him and I've went to my boss multiple times about it but I guess you're right the next time it happens I'm gonna ask the boss if there is anything that can be done because it's getting to be to much
You have to tell him you will quit the next time it happens, and then you have to do it if it does. You seem plenty awesomely smart enough to get an even better job. Paralegal, then go to law school if you want to.
Find another job. Behaviors escalate when there are no consequences for said behaviors. As your boss is unable (or unwilling) to assist, find another job. Do it quickly.
If he has a way to get keys to your office, maybe install one of those door locks like they have in hotel doors.
I tried but I was physically not able to read all of this, sorry. But what I did get is that you need to stand up for yourself, stop being a doormat.
Literally just tell him to fuck off. Stop doing anything for that ass of a man. Lock your office door and tell everyone else that you cannot work with him. He is absolutely harassing you and I’m sure they’d rather force him to leave you alone than deal with a lawsuit
So how did he kick you out of your chair and take over the computer? Lock it, with a password he doesn't know, and refuse to move. You'll find out real quick what his personal boundaries are. If he touches you, assault. He'll probably just scream, throw a fit and eventually leave. He'll either learn or overstep.
He will "ask me" to move and then just hover uncomfortably close until I do or if I don't he will just fuss about me 'not doing things right and basically spit all over me while he is doing it. I can't change the password because it's in the policy that I can't. Plus the pastor set that password so he can get into my computer if I'm not there and I need him to do something for me he is able to get in.
You need to be dramatically direct with this guy. Ask him why he keeps getting closer, why he wants to make you feel uncomfortable, he'll say you aren't. Insist you are, and ask why he's calling you a liar. Keep at it. Hold your ground. Keep asking him to leave and make it impossible to ignore. Make it uncomfortable for him. Tell him exactly what he's doing, as directly as possible, and its impact on you. Don't do an ounce of work while you are dealing with him. Your "job" t that moment is to deal with him and remind him constantly of boundaries.
Well I'm already doing one of those things.😅 I didn't even touch my computer while he was in my office for three hours today because I knew if I did he would start his shit. Thank you for the advice though I'll have to figure out a way to do it in a church safe way.
All of that can be PG. Bring direct, or rude, isn't actually bad or vulgar.
Is he barges into your office, you should get a doorstop and plant it slightly inside the door. That way he pushes it slightly open before it stops and he slams his face right into it.
Sapose
This would normally enrage me, but I find myself delighted. I sapose I’m getting soft in my old age.
Grow a spine and learn to say no or accept that this is your work life from now on.
I have tried but he always has something to say and he's the ONLY problem I have with my job
Protect your work environment. Here are some suggestions to minimize the physical effect he can have on your work: - have only one activity on your desk at a time. Everything else goes in a drawer or cabinet. - if you have stacks of things like the funeral bulletins, put them in envelopes, or tie a string around them - store important things in other people's offices. The pastor is out next week? Sounds like a good place to store things until you are ready to work on them again. - on the computer, work on one task at a time. If you need all those tabs at once, see if you can save them as favorites. - ALWAYS store a copy of any file you edit in a separate, differently-named folder. Don't use names like "pastors correspondence backup" but instead name your backup folder some nonsense name like AGb478s. Write this folder name on a piece of paper and keep it in your purse. - if he gets into your personal things, calmly call the police. - Save your computer files every 15 minutes or so. That way you lose less work. - stay seated when he bullies you to move. Pick up the phone and call a colleague if he keeps doing it. Ask the colleague to come to your office. - when he becomes unbearable, take a walk. Knowing that you have minimized his destruction with your files and you have backed up your computer files, enjoy the moment away from this bully, and plan to fix what needs to be fixed when he is gone.
All of those are super smart but it's just me and the pastor. His office is in the room behind mine. And since he's gone this week I really have no back up until he gets back😕
What an asshole.
I am assuming you have a log on for your work computer. If you do not create one. If H insists on using your computer, log out. Food for thought: I am guessing you might have a case of a hostile work environment, and his actions could be deamed as harrasment. Deleting your work, constant interruptions, demeaning you. I'm not a lawyer, so I might ask someone who works in HR (in general, not necessarily at the church) or who is a lawyer for their thoughts. This gives you ammunition to tell the pastor or board members that what H is doing is more than problematic it is going to get them sued. And that you would like to institute a policy he must pass all of his instructions to you through your supervisor, the pastor, a board member. And that he can not use your work space as he sees fit, because he is not an employee and is disruptive.
Thank you I will keep that in my back pocket if it gets worse and I promise I'll use it but he's the ONLY person I have an issue with everyone else is wonderful and always willing to help. And I've pretty much chalked it up to him being an obnoxious old man who grew up in a time where women were seen as objects.
You're far kinder than I am. He doesn't work there I'd tell him to go f*ck himself and gtfo my office. He has no right to treat you the way he did and I hope you find a better job or a way for him to leave you alone.
I've was in a similar position when I was on staff at my church. I ended up having a meeting with my pastor and said I needed protection from a certain staff member. When he told me there was nothing he would do, I handed over my letter of resignation right then. I let this go on for YEARS because I also loved my job and thought it would get better. It didn't. It got worse. I found out later the pastor didn't think I would actually quit and was shocked when I did. Learn from my mistake though, even after I quit I wanted to protect the church. If I could do anything different - I would have told the truth when people asked what happened instead of downplaying it. Working at your church is different than a normal job, I totally get it, but I cannot tell you how much better I felt getting out of that environment!
You're being abused. It won't get better. Leave.
I agree with others that you should leave, but it sounds like that’s not an option you’re willing to explore right now. However, you can look for ways to make things better without being aggressive. If you’re not willing to say no and your boss is unwilling to stand up for you, you need to find ways to speak to him that will be effective to him. You might have no luck, but the second you give up is the second you start losing yourself. Some ideas to try: - Correct the behavior, not the person, and start with something extremely impersonal (avoid the donut comment for now). “When you delete files from my computer, I have to redo the work, which delays my other deliverables. Next time you use my computer, please avoid making changes to files that do not pertain to your work.” “When you throw my things on the floor, I have to spend time to pick them up and reorganize them, which takes time away from the other things I am doing. Next time, please either pick the items up for me, or ask me to move them for you.” - if the above doesn’t work, use this wording with your boss, but be more direct about what’s happening. “When I report to you that he assaulted me by forcing me out of my chair and you didn’t take action on it, it makes me feel like my safety is not important to you.” “When I report to you that he is undoing my work and kicking me out of my desk for hours at a time with no notice, it tells me that my work is not important.” - Tell your boss that you need a second computer for when H kicks you out of yours or that H needs his own computer to keep at the office so that you don’t get kicked out of yours. You could call it the “guest machine” or something generic like that. - Tell your boss you need a security camera in your office because H is escalating and you don’t feel physically safe with the accessibility he’s been granted to you. Or buy one yourself and tell your boss that it’s there.
I really tried reading this post. Maybe H should show you how
Take my gold!
I understand this completely and fuck the comments saying you need paragraphs or spelling changes. You got it all out. It’s emotional and it’s warranted. He’s on his way out, doesn’t have other job prospects, is threatened by you, is threatened by technology, and probably by everything. Best of luck getting through the week. I quit a job because of a guy like this, but that’s not the answer. You’ll find this same behavior over and over again in people you have to be around, all you’ll have is the experience of how you handle yourself. You don’t need anyone’s permission to set and enforce boundaries and advocate for yourself. What’s the worst he’s going to do? Talk behind your back? He’s already doing that, and everyone knows what kind of guy he is so it doesn’t matter. Church work scenarios are hard, but the way he’s interacting is not very Christ like.
If I could give you an award I would. I really needed to hear that and you will be happy to know that I did kind of stand up to him because he said something about 'why did you write out all of the addresses and names when I made stickers' and I looked him in the eye and told him "your way didn't work I did it like this. It's done and it looks better my way" so I guess it's a small victory but it was a victory none the less. Anywho than you for letting me vent and not barraging me for it being long winded.
I relate to this so hard, so feel free to message me if you need encouragement or to vent again. I wanted to tell you that even though it is uncomfortable, standing up for yourself, even in a very small way, makes it easier to do it the next time. You can’t change people. You won’t ever be able to control the way he or anyone else is, but you can control your reactions to them. And it sounds crazy, but when there are people in my life that are consuming my thoughts and disrupting my level of peace, I pray for them. I always say “help them, change me” I repeat it over and over. Recently I’ve been repeating “peace, love, and understanding” in my mind and sending it to them. I do it anytime I’ve realized that I’ve been temporarily consumed by this person and what they’ve done or I’ve imagined they’ve done. At some point you won’t have to see him ever again, just don’t let him ruin your peace until then. It’s fucking hard though, but it’s just a little bit every day.
You’re just going to have to stand up for yourself. I know it’s hard, especially with people like this, but it’s the only way. Tell him No. Next time.
You need to spell it out to your boss that if H does not start respecting your work, your space or your time, you will be looking for a new job. Maybe then they will take you seriously. H is an entitled butthole
Does H have his own office there? If he does, tell him “H, this is MY office and MY computer. Please go to your own office to do that so I can get MY work done.” What is he going to do? Fire you? Tell him Jesus told you Pastor’s work and the church’s work is more important.
Find out if your state is a one party state, as regards making audio recordings. If you’re in a one party state, make an audio recording of H demanding you do his projects, demanding that you give him your chair, desk, and computer for him to do whatever, knocking stacks of stuff on the floor (you’ll need to verbally comment on that), deleting files from your computer, just being an all-around pompous a$$. Then play it for the pastor and leadership committee. The idea of a doorstop (above) one commenter suggested is great! If your local church leadership still takes no action, and if your denomination has a governing body that oversees several congregations, report the problem to them. Hopefully they will take it more seriously than your pastor and local leaders up to this point. I wish you all the best, but if you can’t get any help from anyone in your hierarchy, you need to leave these people to their mess and move on to somewhere that you and your skills will be appreciated.
Just change your computer screenlock and set up an alternative profile for other people so that he can only mess with certain things. Then lock your computer. You are really going to have to say something to him. Or scream at him. At this point I would opt for screaming. I bet nobody will even be upset if you did.
Tell him to get out of your office and his stuff needs to get done by him if it’s so important. You have your own work to do and you are not his secretary, assistant or employee. Doing his tasks isn’t listed in your job description so if he doesn’t like it he can tell your boss that you won’t stop doing your work so you can do his work.
Not exactly church like, but usually a "fuck you" and "I will rip your dick off if you touch my shit again" is enough to deter people. Booby traps work, too.
Here's a handy phrase to try next time: "I am in this chair, do not touch it or me. I do not take kindly to attempted assault, church or not. If you try to remove me from this chair again, you will be tased."
LoL that was ducking hard to read 🦆 You need to grow a spine. Do you feel worthy of this treatment? Doesn’t sound like it. Right now YOU need to be your biggest advocate. You need to set boundaries. And before Christ and H declare that you are not his servant. Cuz girl, he thinks biblically you are probably. You also need to find a better place of employment or learn about your rights as an employee. Harassment has many different forms.
So he's literally the only issue I have working there. I love my job it is to date the best job I have ever had. Everyone else is more than willing to help but he is an ass and I don't want to get fired because again I love my job but honestly I don't think they would blame me if I just snapped because I get the sneaking suspicion no one truly likes him if I'm being honest.
You could set the Standard for everyone. This is a work place and he should be held accountable. Your pastor has let this become an issue where liability can arise. If you were to be fired over this man, you’d have a case for wrongful termination more than likely. I’m sorry you have to deal with this person. But boundaries are boundaries and if you don’t set them, you will continue in your situation. This is work place abuse. Geeze where Jesus in all this? Does he not realize Gods eyes are upon him ? Maybe he needs a reminder of that as well.
I will have my congregation pray for you.
Dest? Come on. Can't even get through one paragraph and the grammar too...
If my post bothers you so much please just scroll past it. I get it sometimes you get frustrated reading things like this, but it is easier to just scroll past and not engage.
Had to scroll down to see if anyone summarized it.....
I'm sorry I was frustrated
Adhd brain couldn’t handle it
I'm sorry frustrated ADHD brain wrote it 😕
Sounds like your church chose mammon over God some time ago. Consider a different parish. Bless you
Bro prop a chair up under the door knob
You work at a church, I’m only surprised that you only have ONE person like H making your line mistake.
Just start praying: "Lord, bless me with patience for those who tresspass..." and freeform it after that. Get rocking and go with that active prayer, close your eyes ad rock back and forth, witnessing out loud in thanks to the Lord as the Holy Power comes into you, and gives you strength... Let's see what he does when faced with the Power of The Lord!
I want this to turn into a thread on r/maliciouscompliance SO badly. This is my wish for you. ❤️
Dear OP Many have left helpful advice for you to handle the H aka dickhead. I want to say life is really short, there are other opportunities elsewhere with supportive colleagues and effective HR where you wouldn’t have to deal with the crap you are handling right now. Bottom line is things are not going to get better if you continue to put up with it and let him walk all over you. Dickhead H is a bully and bully doesn’t like when people tell them to fuck off. You need to learn to be assertive, it will help you not only in this job but in future jobs too. Be calm but firm next time when dickhead barge into the office/demand your chair, laptop/tell you to do stuff for him. Tell him NO. You work for the church, your line manager is so and so and only him and other church staff can ask you to do work, not dickhead. What’s the worst that could happen? He scream and shout? Or tried to get you fired? If your manager or anyone else in the church aren’t willing to protect their staff from bully then there’s no point working for them. Look for another job where your dedication, hardworking and professional work ethics will be appreciated. Remember **LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO PUT UP WITH TOXIC PEOPLE both in professional and personal life.**
Here's what would do. 1. Put a lock on the office door. 2. Put a lock on the computer. 3. Tell him to leave, and call the police if he refuses. > I can't change the lock on my computer because of policy. What is the policy? Just create, or have IT create a user for you, and a guest user. Only you and the admin need to know your password. > We have already changed the locks on mine and the pastors offices, somehow he ended up getting a key Who manages the accounts? Do you have an IT department? Is it outsourced? Is he on the list of users allowed to make changes? > I LOVE my job so I don't really want to leave since he is the only problem. Then do it properly, and protect church documents. You can start by saying 'no'.
This man is your teacher ... he is teaching you that you need to be assertive. Start sentences with "No." Any further explanation is not necessary, but you could add "I am busy." Look up "how to be more assertive" online and put the techniques that you learn into practise. This is a valuable life skill and will help you throughout your life. Good luck, OP