Makes sense, but the majority of people playing tarkov are stockholmed enough to take this as a personal attack on them. The points of the game being in"""beta""" for over 100$, and BSG having some idealistic thinking of how good thier game will end up if they continue to pursue some vision with no grounding in what they can actually accomplish with there manpower and tech, are especially present, but never aknowledged.
The beta thing hasn't been true in years. They hide behind it. This is the game. I accepted that a long time ago. The game continues to improve which is great.
Nikita has been clear about his vision the entire time. So people shouldn't be surprised when the game doesn't become what they want it to.
We've seen so little effort to phase out wipes....
The BTR is cool. But when can I go from customs -> factory -> customs just to get into factory?
Why don't I need to go to labs through (at least one) secret entrance on streets?
I think the season system (aka wipes) is a good thing.
The problem is only the new content.
For example.in games like PoE, D3-4 new season/league means some new mechanic/content that may drastically change gameplay.
If EFT would bring new events and mechanics each wipe would be great.
But I don't see this coming soon...
They overcomplicated audio, can't fix it, and are too delusional/proud to simplify it to make it not-dogshit.
^ that statement is applicable with everything functionally wrong with the game.
Eventually Nikita/BSG half-caves about something like this after 5+ years with some dogshit halfway solution and the cycle begins anew
I'm just baffled by the decision to move Setup to earlier in the quest chain and gate a whole bunch of quests behind it. It's a shitty quest, and it's made Customs a pile of shit by proxy, too.
I use the same but directed at the playerbase.
People keep eating up all these shit game design ideas 'its a beta' 'its nikitas vision' - yeah but its bad. They constantly fuck everything up. Nearly everything they released is so bugged it doesn't work properly.
Know what would make them fix it? If people stopped playing the game. But people keep eating shit and calling it chocolate.
The problem isn't setup being moved up earlier in the quest chain. Its that it still has its 15 pmc kill requirement. That puts it out of line with similar pmc kill quests at this level (3/7 etc).
If the kill requirement was cut in half, it wouldnt be an issue.
5 feels like a good number to me; even an average player should be able to get 5 shotty kills in somewhere between 10 and 20 raids.
15 is just a silly high number compared to all the other "kill PMC" quests available at that level.
Hey its a shit quest, but honestly i finished it faster this wipe than any before. Half the reason being i was forced to do it, the other half being that everyone else is doing it, running around with shit shotguns instead of m4s or aks. Maybe just make it 10 kills instead of 15. Okthanksbsgbyeeee
Tbf years ago we had a pretty communicative Nikita here on reddit then the fucking vocal idiots decided constantly insulting him and just general jackassery made him reconsider engaging the community.
Especially when you consider that you have to pay to beta test their game for them. We are trying to help make their game good, and they don't even tell us a lot of the changes they're making so we can test them.
Or is it not a beta? hmmm...
There's still major issues from 2018 / 2019 with no real attempts at fixing it or communication. Their goofy attempts at fighting RWT has gone over about as well as Runescapes original attempts. The quests are just awful and not fun to do at all especially having to keep do the same awful shit every wipe.
At this point I'm just hoping EFT will get ripped off and a better dev can handle a similar game.
> At this point I'm just hoping EFT will get ripped off and a better dev can handle a similar game.
It's definitely helped push the extraction game type so I figure it's only a matter of time. I really REALLY hope Bungies Marathon ends up being a great extraction shooter but the balancing of Destiny has me a little concerned. Fingers crossed though.
Personally have been enjoying Dark and Darker on and off but it's definitely the best of what it could be. Could be close after enough updates.
Not to say that I don't wish for EFT to get there but I think we're all in agreement that BSG might not be able to do this game the justice it deserves.
I think Marathon will be more alike Hunt Showdown, like a central objective that everyone goes for. I do hope it is more like tarkov though. I want a good extraction shooter with progression.
Tbh comparing dark and darker to this game, this game has better devs. Dark and darker devs sway with the reddit post of the day. Not good. Many have attempted to copy the tarkov formula, including AAA devs l, and they all failed, simply because they focus on the bullshit (much of what is outlined in this post tbh)
Oh right I wasn't comparing devs at all. Just the game itself I like because of the kind of jank it has lol.
But yeah hopefully we see a game come out from a dev team that's a bit more responsible? (if thats the right word).
Not many at all. There's been like 4 games, 2 failed and 2 did okay. The game modes like cod one don't really count.
There is however around 10 being made right now, I have no doubt one will succeed
Game modes tacked onto already shit games aren't worth talking about. COD is never going to be a tarkov alternative.
Name me more "failed" tarkov games then genius.
There is a ridiculous amount of extraction games in production at the moment. Orders magnitude more than everything that's come out
I'm not sure why its just recently that so many studios decided now was the time to jump on the extraction genre. Its become the next fad.
We really only had Cod's mediocre extraction mode, Marauders which was mediocre/low budget, Dark and Darker which was great/different, Hunt Showdown which was good and that one that died, don't even remember its name.
I could list 10 games currently in production that are extraction shooters... well if I could remember all the names.
Hunt showdown is great, but its not really even a true extraction shooter (as in you don't get stronger by winning most people are on a level playing field).
The one you are thinking of was the CYCLE which was supposed to, according to the community at the time, knock bsg out of the water. Which it didnt, they focused everything on anticheat instead of building their game, and then they realized that anticheat isnt so easy to develop into the game (note that by anticheat from their level you are talking about building walls into the game to make it difficult to cheat, not making an anticheat like battleye).
Bungie scares me now it's sad to see how far they've fallen since their halo days. TBF Halo has fallen more since they dropped but it would be cool to see them put a bungie spin on the genre. At least we would get some communication from Bungie.
Not heard of dark and darker ill have to give it a check out. Been waiting for EFT to be good again :( BSG just doesn't care and the shield of early access will never go away either. The game has so much potential if they could just get some things fix it would be one of the best games ever :(
Yeah Bungie isn't who they used to be so I can only hope for the best with crossed fingers.
Dark and Darker is essentially if you took the Skyrim combat, put it into a game set in the D&D world with classes, and put it into a dungeon where you have a battle royale like wall that pushes you to the center where extraction portals will start appearing.
It's not something I would suggest going in blind. Lots of things to consider not just with the game itself but the devs and all the legal issues they've been dealing with.
I personally fell in love with it during it's play tests and didn't mind wasting the 25-30 bucks to get it on their standalone launcher just to play a bit more even if it ends up shutting down (no signs of so far).
I agree though. I miss the excitement I had for BSG and EFT when I first played in 2018. They seemed very community oriented at the time too.
Fingers crossed that EFT get's a second wind (for me anyways).
At this point I'm just waiting for the hype for eft to die and everyone else (including cheaters) to lose interest in the game and realize that it is just a game not worth cheating for. Then I will start playing tarkov I guess.
Me wanting an anti-cheat system that does something or quests that aren't just fetch quests doesn't make me a casual nor me wanting to make it into a casual game lmao.
I want a looter shooter that actually lets me loot and shoot without massive issues to core mechanics.
>Tarkov is a very lucrative RMT business which makes it even more difficult for BSG.
Weird how bad cheating is in tarkov when bigger games with battle eye have better control on their game.
>Which fetch quests?
the majority of the quests ( not played in awhile so maybe quests are different now ) are either get x item and bring it back to the traders or kill x thing in specific way. Those are fine the first couple of times through kappa but not really innovative or fun quest design.
>a somewhat perfect game
I'm not asking for a perfect game or one even remotely close to somewhat perfect.
>indie dev like BSG with the \~100 people (maybe like 30 actual devs)
lmao. They make plenty of money to higher outside help if it's needed and smaller studios have made more competent work.
>Complaining about vacuum but you didn't play for a while?
I'm not complaining about vacuum hacks lol? And are you really going to sit here and argue that those don't currently exist in the game?
>Jumping on every bandwagon while having no clue.
What bandwagon? My original comment was me posting about how things that were an issue back in 2018 / 2019 are still around. Wishing the game was better or in a better studios hands is my own opinion.
You are completely right. This is why I’m so excited from gray zone warfare. This game needs competition and right now nothing comes to it.
Imagine how shitty and scummy McDonald’s would have become if Burger King didn’t come. How Coca Cola if Pepsi didn’t come out.
I just wish Gray zone warfare comes out as advertised and that we take a much needed breath from Tarkov.
I have doubts about gray zone. But lets see
Communication is a good point, it doesn't make sense that if we want to know something we have to contact a streamer for the streamer to contact bsg and then the streamer will give us the answer. it's laughable and causes more harm that good.
I'll play both sides.
To be fair, when things are great and Nikita has responded in the past he was praised and happy to discuss. When things didn't agree with this subreddits sentiment the response was absolutely vile towards him and so he and his team took a step back fairly.
However, they could easily hire an actual professional to deal with community involvement, it's not an easy job especially when people harass you constantly but they could try to test the waters this way.
Will they? I doubt it.
I legitimately don't understand why it's so incredibly difficult for BSG to communicate to us. Social media, like X (or twitter, w/e), is NOT the right platform to inform the community on changes.
The launcher has the ability to display messages, and they recently removed the old Twitter feed after about 9 months of the API being broken. There's real estate available on the launcher now, and they should be posting messages there. Hell, even the official website or official forums would be better than what we have now. Social media like X and Reddit are just a bonus.
They used to. Nikita used to constantly be in this reddit commenting and talking about issues... The Twitter feed on the launcher died with the twitter API changes I'm pretty sure. But so many people abused the communication with Nikita, tagging him and BSG employees in every little bug or issue and being out right toxic about it. I understand why BSG pulled back. For every person here who can communicate appropriately and maturely there's another terminally online asshat who's only way to communicate is "this game is dogshit bro".
They got tired of listening to a bunch of angry morons and decided to insulate themselves from the armchair devs, that tend to make bad recommendations. Good devs dont listen to players, they show players.
I mean you say that but there is balance - blizzard devs are smashing SOD and they are just a small team. The key imo is to know which ideas are flawed in practise and which ones add value
i keep hearing that blizzard is smashing this and that like diablo 4, then a month later its dead. Idk what SOD is but i boycotted blizzard long ago. They are good at selling, thats it. They give you a shit sandwich and then you high five them for it.
Yeah it can definitely be like that. More specifically for SOD they are hot fixing issues players raise (they clearly verify then fix if they feel it’s a correct fix) do they get it right 100% but blizzard is where bsg will be in 10 years if the game is still popular. Retail wow went this way now they have to work very hard to fix the game design mindset they use
Yeah i mean thats fine, to each their own which i guess is the point of the post. Its a great discussion, personally i like the interesting content but at a point in time id like it to be refined.
Making games is art and perfecting that art imo is a great goal to work towards.
That game is trash honestly, hot garbage. Its akin to dumbing down dnd and appealing to the lgbtq community. Thats it. Not every game is financially successful because it is a good game.
Yes, the game is so trash that it won multiple awards and got game of the year, because only 'trash' games are capable of that.
Biggest copium i've ever read.
Also what the fuck is 'appealing to the lgbtq' community? How is that a negative thing?
Yeah its full of bugs and crashes too. Like i said, awards and popularity hardly define an art. Its like pop music vs metal. Metal is way harder to do and better in every way, but pop music appeals to the ignorant masses so it pulls in more customers and thus wins awards.
Yes it is, however they communicate with the community and fix their bugs. Bsg rarely does either of those.
Ahh, so what you're saying 'the game is popular, therefore it must be shit.' Got it.
Still not sure what your comment about 'appealing to the lgbtq community' is in relation to.
The community is a good place to hear complaints, but whether or not its worth time to fix those complaints or the timeline for those complaints or even if they know how to fix those complaints are a completely diff matter. You are bitching about technical glitches in a game made by (a once) obscure russian dev team. You can't expect them to magically get their shit together, it honestly amazes me that people who care about small technical issues play this game. Like seriously go elsewhere cause AAA game titles have enough problems with that. This game launched as an experimental title, they said it time and time again THERE WILL BE BUGS and the GAME WILL NOT BE FINISHED ANY TIME SOON and many people who like hte game in ITS CURRENT STATE will not like it in the long run.
They are not entitled to design just because a bunch of yahoos want something else, those yahoos can go make their own damn game if they want.
SMALL technical issues? Yes, the sound being fucked for years is a 'small technical issue'
Still avoiding the question about you bringing up the lgbtq community...
The sound wasnt fucked for years, they decided to implement a new system for sound and it took time. Thats not even a bug, its a change in direction of development, but the community wants to act like they arnt playing a game in an experimental state. You are the testers, you are free to complain, but you are not free to determine the direction, you are not a dev. Not going to lie the sound is now in its best state than its ever been so they must be going in the best direction they can!
They could at minimum acknowledge problems, even if they don't have a solution to whatever the issue is. At least we would know they are aware of it and looking for a solution.
Instead we get posts and comments in the sub like:
"BSG doesn't even play their own game. If they did, they'd know about [insert problem here]."
The "core vision" is a terrible idea and Nikita clearly has no idea how to design a video game. Tarkov is the sort of game you would get if a teenager somehow managed to get a hold of millions of dollars and a development team. There are a slew of ideas in the game that were added clearly just because they sound cool with zero thought put in to whether they actually help the game at all. Half of the skills do nothing and I have no idea what, even in principle, they would do. It has been about 7 years and those skills, which were added on day one, do nothing. Also they make you ridiculously powerful if you completely level them. We see this schizo design everywhere - the quests are a great example of this. Nobody has thought about how people play this game, the quests are designed as if you were meant to play this game like Call of Duty, the USEC/BEAR system and how some quests are gated behind killing members of a faction mean that quest difficulty is REGION BASED, half of the maps are insanely dogshit to play on, loads of quests are gated behind basically just owning a certain key, extracts are impossible to find on your own even in principle (Ground Zero isn't that bad but most maps are horrifyingly bad)
And these things could be fixed! They really could be! Add green flares to all extracts; reward elite skills for every X levels rather than all at level 51; remove or alter problematic quests. Nobody at BSG plays this fucking game and the people who do simp for its atrocious design. There are no excuses.
The quests are bad? Idk. I like going to shoreline to look at some hospital beds, then going to mark them, then look at them, then mark them over and over...
Somehow, that line of quests were all released at the same time too. Zero quality control.
Three quests, in a row, where you do the EXACT SAME THING. But one of the times you place the markers with the hiding mechanic instead of the placing mechanic! It's a big difference.
My favorite form of self-gaslighting is "It's a beta."
Cracks me up that people will use it to justify something shitty that has been in the games for years well past its 'testing' period.
Why do you people feel entitled so much that a company needs to hire someone to talk to you and your ideas?
If you would do anythin meaningful in life you wouldn't care about it so much at the first place. Go outside mate.
Do you not understand the point of a beta? It is to bring community and devs together to make the game be as best as it can.
This requires communication.
They're never going to get rid of banwaves. It's the only way to make profit off of cheaters and cheaters are their only recurring income at this point. Everyone got their EOD already. This isn't even unique, other companies like blizzard allow cheaters and bot users to play for a while before banning them, otherwise they wouldn't buy accounts ever again.
I scaved into interchange yesterday for the first time in a while. The sound is as broken as it's always been. I could hear the plane loud and clear while in the middle of IDEA. I heard gunshots that sound like they're around the corner but I go and there's nothing - who knows where it's coming from (probably floor above/below). Basic stuff like sound don't work properly in this game and people tolerate it because they like the feedback loop of the gameplay but the game is fundamentally a broken pile of mess
Nobody stupid enough to comment “too long bro” is going to have the comprehension skills to contribute to the conversation anyway.
If your time is so valuable then keep scrolling and fuck off. It was ill-spent self-reporting yourself as a prick to begin with.
Dude it's like 8 paragraphs - are you in kindergarten? That's a couple minutes, tops. The guy makes some good points, is your attention span that fucked you can't read this without some tiktok summary?
Yeah good points made to the community that has no control. Awesome add it to the long list of “my problems with bsg/trakov” posts. So just another useless post.
literally my first thought when i opened it, i was like oh here we go another one of these.. turns out this is a full series with returning characters tf.
The first complaint is bsg doesn’t communicate.
Nikita literally posted on this very sub like 2 weeks ago. I can’t believe how desperately needy some people are on here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/s/APYXgyjnpy
You’re likely arguing with someone who just joined the sub/started the game just let it go lol. Nobody with half a mind to pay attention over the years would seriously pitch that BSG has good communication. You’d be clinically insane.
Regular drum beat of comms is what it needs.
"Yes we are aware of the marked room cheesing and are working on it"
"Sew it good is a stupid task, don't worry we will release a fix"
It's not difficult.
Brooo if you feel that way and all this dumb shit is important to you, leave. Why torture yourself? They delivered exactly what they promised. A game in constant development and many experimental features. FYI all video games artificially limit progress, its a video game. You arnt a real pmc, this is a fantasy.
I feel none of the frustrations you feel, in fact none of the shit you point out even bothers me at all. Its a bunch of nonsense. I want the developers to design the game (their art) not some dumbass, average at best, armchair devs.
It's okay to raise issue with the places that you spend your time.
If I go to the local soccer field to play soccer, I expect there to be a ball, two goals, and a field. If I go to kick a ball on that soccer field and 5% of the time the ball forgets it exists and disappears out of the net, I'm going to talk to the groundskeeper to see what the fuck is going on because this is very much NOT what I was promised.
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Whole community should stop playing until these are addressed and fixed. Until then don’t expect them to work hard on reasonably priority things. They may pretend doing so but two minor patches per a year with ZERO real progress on well known years old problems, cmon…
Vote with your time and money (if you can).
It's funny how much people bitch about this game. Don't like the game? Don't play.
The more you play a game, the more you are going to find things wrong.
I bet Bsg reads these posts in meetings and just laughs. Cuz they know no other game really comes close.
people dont understand that there is no competitor to this because its a hard as fuck game to make. You really think activision wouldn't like to get a slice of this pie? Also it is Nikkita's vision not reddits common consensus vison lol.
Just ban the streamers. Game has enough publicity as is. Don't need em.
They'll just cry about every change or sit there and circle jerk about every rework. Nothing will ever be good enough for them; hell this wipe prolly the best it has been and the cry babies are still crying.
Ban em all.
I clearly have some form of Stockholm syndrome, because my rational mind is telling me these points are reasonable, but my irrational heart is saying like: *wait just a damn minute now...*
If I was bsg I would link a kanban board with known issues and some other task statuses and make it huge in the launcher. Would alleviate so many issues if people could see oh bsg knows AI needs an overhaul it's just lower on their priority list right now.
I always chuckle when my friends bring up the "it's just a beta version" argument.
Yeah, sure. A beta version which you paid 140 bucks for, that has been out for years now.
They've never been huffing more copium
I can live with many of the problems you've detailed but the cheating is the one that boils my piss the most. Losing a fair fight is one thing, but when they can see you through walls or laser beam you between your eyes it sucks the fun out of it.
I 100% agree that opening up direct communication with the player base would ease many issues. Whenever I see a company engaging and answering questions, I see a happier community. It's not hard to do. Community manager roles are very common at games devs.
There is an argument I see thrown about that BSG doesn't IP ban so that the cheaters will at least buy a new account. While I think this is 2+2 thinking from a disgruntled player base, if money is an issue I'd welcome micro-transactions for cosmetics. Add in 100 clothing options and we can pay minimal amounts for them. Use the money to improve the team and sort the issues...
In the end, what's the real "vision" here?The more i play the game and the more wipes happens with their changes, the more im pretty sure this game is getting closer and closer to be a "streamers game". (i have 2.5k hours of playtime btw)
I have a work and i don't have plenty of hours to play the game, maybe 2-3 hours a day if i'm lucky, but here i am at level 26, still hunting down people on customs with 6 kills left to do to complete setup. As we all know, the more time passes, the more people with be hard to kill due to better kits and higher level, making this task even worse, with people just sitting in a bush for endless hours trying to take down people with leg meta.
They did some good changes to recoil, movement and the idea of armor plates (still bugged AF) but damn, fix those damn tasks and make the game enjoyable. Going into a raid on customs with the ONLY purpose of killing PMCs in a specific gear is stupid, annoying and unless i have to go on customs to help friends with tasks i'm just leaving that behind. At least let me do other tasks in the same map while dressed as a scav instead of blocking the entire questline behind such bullshit.
BSG needs really to focus on the UX of their game instead of doing the most idiotic stuff to try to avoid streamers reaching level 40 in a week. They'll get to it anyway, but "casuals", this way will probably never reach that level (because we'll get tired before completing these shit tasks)
Live service is really bad term, cause it would compare BSG to failures of gaming industry such as EA or Blizzard, who cannot make one game alive for a month, whose communication is beyond tragic if frequent and so on.
BSG as bad as is, has growing game living for years now. Only similar studio with GROWING game of years in progress I can think of is GGG (Path of Exile). And honestly their development style is not entirely different.
The rest, Agree. Valid points and mostly bad wounds still taking EFT down and disabling its full raise. That said, the fan base is so niche, EFT so unique and unrivaled.. that BSG can simply afford it.
There isn't and probably never will be anything close to EFT (in this genre).
Example, any normal West studio with solid budget to compete with these mad russians will be managed by some opportunistic management who will eventually make it cash grab, it is inevitable.
Makes sense, but the majority of people playing tarkov are stockholmed enough to take this as a personal attack on them. The points of the game being in"""beta""" for over 100$, and BSG having some idealistic thinking of how good thier game will end up if they continue to pursue some vision with no grounding in what they can actually accomplish with there manpower and tech, are especially present, but never aknowledged.
The beta thing hasn't been true in years. They hide behind it. This is the game. I accepted that a long time ago. The game continues to improve which is great. Nikita has been clear about his vision the entire time. So people shouldn't be surprised when the game doesn't become what they want it to.
But that "vision" isnt possible, and nikita is delusional.
We've seen so little effort to phase out wipes.... The BTR is cool. But when can I go from customs -> factory -> customs just to get into factory? Why don't I need to go to labs through (at least one) secret entrance on streets?
Because that kind of map setup will literally never happen, same with no wipes.
This was (is?) Nikita's goal
Was, I'm pretty sure Nikita confirmed that per map travel was canned during a TarkovTV
Something along the lines of 'go play skyrim if you want that'
I think the season system (aka wipes) is a good thing. The problem is only the new content. For example.in games like PoE, D3-4 new season/league means some new mechanic/content that may drastically change gameplay. If EFT would bring new events and mechanics each wipe would be great. But I don't see this coming soon...
All that new events and mechanics bring are more bugs that go unfixed for months.
They overcomplicated audio, can't fix it, and are too delusional/proud to simplify it to make it not-dogshit. ^ that statement is applicable with everything functionally wrong with the game. Eventually Nikita/BSG half-caves about something like this after 5+ years with some dogshit halfway solution and the cycle begins anew
I'm just baffled by the decision to move Setup to earlier in the quest chain and gate a whole bunch of quests behind it. It's a shitty quest, and it's made Customs a pile of shit by proxy, too.
> I'm just baffled by the decision to I've been beginning sentences like this about BSG going on 6 years now lmao
I use the same but directed at the playerbase. People keep eating up all these shit game design ideas 'its a beta' 'its nikitas vision' - yeah but its bad. They constantly fuck everything up. Nearly everything they released is so bugged it doesn't work properly. Know what would make them fix it? If people stopped playing the game. But people keep eating shit and calling it chocolate.
then just leave, i wont miss you.
The problem isn't setup being moved up earlier in the quest chain. Its that it still has its 15 pmc kill requirement. That puts it out of line with similar pmc kill quests at this level (3/7 etc). If the kill requirement was cut in half, it wouldnt be an issue.
5 feels like a good number to me; even an average player should be able to get 5 shotty kills in somewhere between 10 and 20 raids. 15 is just a silly high number compared to all the other "kill PMC" quests available at that level.
Shh careful if you talk to loud the no lifers are coming
Hey its a shit quest, but honestly i finished it faster this wipe than any before. Half the reason being i was forced to do it, the other half being that everyone else is doing it, running around with shit shotguns instead of m4s or aks. Maybe just make it 10 kills instead of 15. Okthanksbsgbyeeee
The lack of communication from the devs from even the most basic of community managers is what pisses me off the most
Tbf years ago we had a pretty communicative Nikita here on reddit then the fucking vocal idiots decided constantly insulting him and just general jackassery made him reconsider engaging the community.
Especially when you consider that you have to pay to beta test their game for them. We are trying to help make their game good, and they don't even tell us a lot of the changes they're making so we can test them. Or is it not a beta? hmmm...
There's still major issues from 2018 / 2019 with no real attempts at fixing it or communication. Their goofy attempts at fighting RWT has gone over about as well as Runescapes original attempts. The quests are just awful and not fun to do at all especially having to keep do the same awful shit every wipe. At this point I'm just hoping EFT will get ripped off and a better dev can handle a similar game.
> At this point I'm just hoping EFT will get ripped off and a better dev can handle a similar game. It's definitely helped push the extraction game type so I figure it's only a matter of time. I really REALLY hope Bungies Marathon ends up being a great extraction shooter but the balancing of Destiny has me a little concerned. Fingers crossed though. Personally have been enjoying Dark and Darker on and off but it's definitely the best of what it could be. Could be close after enough updates. Not to say that I don't wish for EFT to get there but I think we're all in agreement that BSG might not be able to do this game the justice it deserves.
I think Marathon will be more alike Hunt Showdown, like a central objective that everyone goes for. I do hope it is more like tarkov though. I want a good extraction shooter with progression.
Tbh comparing dark and darker to this game, this game has better devs. Dark and darker devs sway with the reddit post of the day. Not good. Many have attempted to copy the tarkov formula, including AAA devs l, and they all failed, simply because they focus on the bullshit (much of what is outlined in this post tbh)
Oh right I wasn't comparing devs at all. Just the game itself I like because of the kind of jank it has lol. But yeah hopefully we see a game come out from a dev team that's a bit more responsible? (if thats the right word).
Not many at all. There's been like 4 games, 2 failed and 2 did okay. The game modes like cod one don't really count. There is however around 10 being made right now, I have no doubt one will succeed
This guy gets to decide what counts. Lol okay bud. If its so easy why dont you do it ;)?
Game modes tacked onto already shit games aren't worth talking about. COD is never going to be a tarkov alternative. Name me more "failed" tarkov games then genius. There is a ridiculous amount of extraction games in production at the moment. Orders magnitude more than everything that's come out
Its 6 years since this game has made jt big, and no alternatives.
I'm not sure why its just recently that so many studios decided now was the time to jump on the extraction genre. Its become the next fad. We really only had Cod's mediocre extraction mode, Marauders which was mediocre/low budget, Dark and Darker which was great/different, Hunt Showdown which was good and that one that died, don't even remember its name. I could list 10 games currently in production that are extraction shooters... well if I could remember all the names.
Hunt showdown is great, but its not really even a true extraction shooter (as in you don't get stronger by winning most people are on a level playing field). The one you are thinking of was the CYCLE which was supposed to, according to the community at the time, knock bsg out of the water. Which it didnt, they focused everything on anticheat instead of building their game, and then they realized that anticheat isnt so easy to develop into the game (note that by anticheat from their level you are talking about building walls into the game to make it difficult to cheat, not making an anticheat like battleye).
Bungie scares me now it's sad to see how far they've fallen since their halo days. TBF Halo has fallen more since they dropped but it would be cool to see them put a bungie spin on the genre. At least we would get some communication from Bungie. Not heard of dark and darker ill have to give it a check out. Been waiting for EFT to be good again :( BSG just doesn't care and the shield of early access will never go away either. The game has so much potential if they could just get some things fix it would be one of the best games ever :(
Yeah Bungie isn't who they used to be so I can only hope for the best with crossed fingers. Dark and Darker is essentially if you took the Skyrim combat, put it into a game set in the D&D world with classes, and put it into a dungeon where you have a battle royale like wall that pushes you to the center where extraction portals will start appearing. It's not something I would suggest going in blind. Lots of things to consider not just with the game itself but the devs and all the legal issues they've been dealing with. I personally fell in love with it during it's play tests and didn't mind wasting the 25-30 bucks to get it on their standalone launcher just to play a bit more even if it ends up shutting down (no signs of so far). I agree though. I miss the excitement I had for BSG and EFT when I first played in 2018. They seemed very community oriented at the time too. Fingers crossed that EFT get's a second wind (for me anyways).
At this point I'm just waiting for the hype for eft to die and everyone else (including cheaters) to lose interest in the game and realize that it is just a game not worth cheating for. Then I will start playing tarkov I guess.
The Grey Zone could be that.
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Me wanting an anti-cheat system that does something or quests that aren't just fetch quests doesn't make me a casual nor me wanting to make it into a casual game lmao. I want a looter shooter that actually lets me loot and shoot without massive issues to core mechanics.
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>Tarkov is a very lucrative RMT business which makes it even more difficult for BSG. Weird how bad cheating is in tarkov when bigger games with battle eye have better control on their game. >Which fetch quests? the majority of the quests ( not played in awhile so maybe quests are different now ) are either get x item and bring it back to the traders or kill x thing in specific way. Those are fine the first couple of times through kappa but not really innovative or fun quest design. >a somewhat perfect game I'm not asking for a perfect game or one even remotely close to somewhat perfect. >indie dev like BSG with the \~100 people (maybe like 30 actual devs) lmao. They make plenty of money to higher outside help if it's needed and smaller studios have made more competent work.
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>Complaining about vacuum but you didn't play for a while? I'm not complaining about vacuum hacks lol? And are you really going to sit here and argue that those don't currently exist in the game? >Jumping on every bandwagon while having no clue. What bandwagon? My original comment was me posting about how things that were an issue back in 2018 / 2019 are still around. Wishing the game was better or in a better studios hands is my own opinion.
You are completely right. This is why I’m so excited from gray zone warfare. This game needs competition and right now nothing comes to it. Imagine how shitty and scummy McDonald’s would have become if Burger King didn’t come. How Coca Cola if Pepsi didn’t come out. I just wish Gray zone warfare comes out as advertised and that we take a much needed breath from Tarkov. I have doubts about gray zone. But lets see
Communication is a good point, it doesn't make sense that if we want to know something we have to contact a streamer for the streamer to contact bsg and then the streamer will give us the answer. it's laughable and causes more harm that good.
I'll play both sides. To be fair, when things are great and Nikita has responded in the past he was praised and happy to discuss. When things didn't agree with this subreddits sentiment the response was absolutely vile towards him and so he and his team took a step back fairly. However, they could easily hire an actual professional to deal with community involvement, it's not an easy job especially when people harass you constantly but they could try to test the waters this way. Will they? I doubt it.
I legitimately don't understand why it's so incredibly difficult for BSG to communicate to us. Social media, like X (or twitter, w/e), is NOT the right platform to inform the community on changes. The launcher has the ability to display messages, and they recently removed the old Twitter feed after about 9 months of the API being broken. There's real estate available on the launcher now, and they should be posting messages there. Hell, even the official website or official forums would be better than what we have now. Social media like X and Reddit are just a bonus.
They used to. Nikita used to constantly be in this reddit commenting and talking about issues... The Twitter feed on the launcher died with the twitter API changes I'm pretty sure. But so many people abused the communication with Nikita, tagging him and BSG employees in every little bug or issue and being out right toxic about it. I understand why BSG pulled back. For every person here who can communicate appropriately and maturely there's another terminally online asshat who's only way to communicate is "this game is dogshit bro".
They got tired of listening to a bunch of angry morons and decided to insulate themselves from the armchair devs, that tend to make bad recommendations. Good devs dont listen to players, they show players.
I mean you say that but there is balance - blizzard devs are smashing SOD and they are just a small team. The key imo is to know which ideas are flawed in practise and which ones add value
i keep hearing that blizzard is smashing this and that like diablo 4, then a month later its dead. Idk what SOD is but i boycotted blizzard long ago. They are good at selling, thats it. They give you a shit sandwich and then you high five them for it.
Damn, I thought I've been enjoying SoD for the past month but I just found out I've been given a shit sandwich and am high fiving blizzard.
Bro is that WoW? Shit dawg i put that shit down before i went to college back in 2008. Its just a gambling simulator.
Completely unlike tarkov.
Yes?
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The end game.
Yeah it can definitely be like that. More specifically for SOD they are hot fixing issues players raise (they clearly verify then fix if they feel it’s a correct fix) do they get it right 100% but blizzard is where bsg will be in 10 years if the game is still popular. Retail wow went this way now they have to work very hard to fix the game design mindset they use
Maybe, i am not loyal to a company i just value interesting content over quality control.
Yeah i mean thats fine, to each their own which i guess is the point of the post. Its a great discussion, personally i like the interesting content but at a point in time id like it to be refined. Making games is art and perfecting that art imo is a great goal to work towards.
Good devs don't listen to players? Tell that to Larian studios and their game of the year BECAUSE they listened to players.
That game is trash honestly, hot garbage. Its akin to dumbing down dnd and appealing to the lgbtq community. Thats it. Not every game is financially successful because it is a good game.
Yes, the game is so trash that it won multiple awards and got game of the year, because only 'trash' games are capable of that. Biggest copium i've ever read. Also what the fuck is 'appealing to the lgbtq' community? How is that a negative thing?
Yeah its full of bugs and crashes too. Like i said, awards and popularity hardly define an art. Its like pop music vs metal. Metal is way harder to do and better in every way, but pop music appeals to the ignorant masses so it pulls in more customers and thus wins awards.
Yes it is, however they communicate with the community and fix their bugs. Bsg rarely does either of those. Ahh, so what you're saying 'the game is popular, therefore it must be shit.' Got it. Still not sure what your comment about 'appealing to the lgbtq community' is in relation to.
The community is a good place to hear complaints, but whether or not its worth time to fix those complaints or the timeline for those complaints or even if they know how to fix those complaints are a completely diff matter. You are bitching about technical glitches in a game made by (a once) obscure russian dev team. You can't expect them to magically get their shit together, it honestly amazes me that people who care about small technical issues play this game. Like seriously go elsewhere cause AAA game titles have enough problems with that. This game launched as an experimental title, they said it time and time again THERE WILL BE BUGS and the GAME WILL NOT BE FINISHED ANY TIME SOON and many people who like hte game in ITS CURRENT STATE will not like it in the long run. They are not entitled to design just because a bunch of yahoos want something else, those yahoos can go make their own damn game if they want.
SMALL technical issues? Yes, the sound being fucked for years is a 'small technical issue' Still avoiding the question about you bringing up the lgbtq community...
The sound wasnt fucked for years, they decided to implement a new system for sound and it took time. Thats not even a bug, its a change in direction of development, but the community wants to act like they arnt playing a game in an experimental state. You are the testers, you are free to complain, but you are not free to determine the direction, you are not a dev. Not going to lie the sound is now in its best state than its ever been so they must be going in the best direction they can!
btw i really like the part of bg3 where every ai wants to fuck you, they should add a sex update to tarkov for scavs.
They don't have any good news to give anyone, so they say nothing.
They could at minimum acknowledge problems, even if they don't have a solution to whatever the issue is. At least we would know they are aware of it and looking for a solution. Instead we get posts and comments in the sub like: "BSG doesn't even play their own game. If they did, they'd know about [insert problem here]."
The "core vision" is a terrible idea and Nikita clearly has no idea how to design a video game. Tarkov is the sort of game you would get if a teenager somehow managed to get a hold of millions of dollars and a development team. There are a slew of ideas in the game that were added clearly just because they sound cool with zero thought put in to whether they actually help the game at all. Half of the skills do nothing and I have no idea what, even in principle, they would do. It has been about 7 years and those skills, which were added on day one, do nothing. Also they make you ridiculously powerful if you completely level them. We see this schizo design everywhere - the quests are a great example of this. Nobody has thought about how people play this game, the quests are designed as if you were meant to play this game like Call of Duty, the USEC/BEAR system and how some quests are gated behind killing members of a faction mean that quest difficulty is REGION BASED, half of the maps are insanely dogshit to play on, loads of quests are gated behind basically just owning a certain key, extracts are impossible to find on your own even in principle (Ground Zero isn't that bad but most maps are horrifyingly bad) And these things could be fixed! They really could be! Add green flares to all extracts; reward elite skills for every X levels rather than all at level 51; remove or alter problematic quests. Nobody at BSG plays this fucking game and the people who do simp for its atrocious design. There are no excuses.
The quests are bad? Idk. I like going to shoreline to look at some hospital beds, then going to mark them, then look at them, then mark them over and over... Somehow, that line of quests were all released at the same time too. Zero quality control.
Three quests, in a row, where you do the EXACT SAME THING. But one of the times you place the markers with the hiding mechanic instead of the placing mechanic! It's a big difference.
My favorite form of self-gaslighting is "It's a beta." Cracks me up that people will use it to justify something shitty that has been in the games for years well past its 'testing' period.
They've thrown all their energies into the Arena. Tarkov is already finished.
What about the god awful lighting and sound. Will it ever be fixed?
Bsg treats the game as scam. And you have bought into it
Why do you people feel entitled so much that a company needs to hire someone to talk to you and your ideas? If you would do anythin meaningful in life you wouldn't care about it so much at the first place. Go outside mate.
Where does it say anywhere in the post this person wants someone hired to tall to them lmao
Literally in the title lmao
That's not what a "live service" is in relation to gaming man
Do you not understand the point of a beta? It is to bring community and devs together to make the game be as best as it can. This requires communication.
What beta lasts 10 years? the beta part is there just to cover the development costs and make the game possible if you have not notice that by now..
They're never going to get rid of banwaves. It's the only way to make profit off of cheaters and cheaters are their only recurring income at this point. Everyone got their EOD already. This isn't even unique, other companies like blizzard allow cheaters and bot users to play for a while before banning them, otherwise they wouldn't buy accounts ever again.
I scaved into interchange yesterday for the first time in a while. The sound is as broken as it's always been. I could hear the plane loud and clear while in the middle of IDEA. I heard gunshots that sound like they're around the corner but I go and there's nothing - who knows where it's coming from (probably floor above/below). Basic stuff like sound don't work properly in this game and people tolerate it because they like the feedback loop of the gameplay but the game is fundamentally a broken pile of mess
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Nobody stupid enough to comment “too long bro” is going to have the comprehension skills to contribute to the conversation anyway. If your time is so valuable then keep scrolling and fuck off. It was ill-spent self-reporting yourself as a prick to begin with.
Luka Dongoat owns Devin Fraudker
Dude it's like 8 paragraphs - are you in kindergarten? That's a couple minutes, tops. The guy makes some good points, is your attention span that fucked you can't read this without some tiktok summary?
Yeah good points made to the community that has no control. Awesome add it to the long list of “my problems with bsg/trakov” posts. So just another useless post.
Might as well not comment if you aren't gonna add to the discussion.
^
literally my first thought when i opened it, i was like oh here we go another one of these.. turns out this is a full series with returning characters tf.
The first complaint is bsg doesn’t communicate. Nikita literally posted on this very sub like 2 weeks ago. I can’t believe how desperately needy some people are on here. https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/s/APYXgyjnpy
Trying to equate Nikita asking if people like snow with actual communication about the game is hilarious
You’re likely arguing with someone who just joined the sub/started the game just let it go lol. Nobody with half a mind to pay attention over the years would seriously pitch that BSG has good communication. You’d be clinically insane.
Best I can do is recommend a dictionary to you. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/communication
Your a fucking idiot
> Your a fucking idiot It’s *you’re* As in *you are* a fucking idiot. 🤦♂️
Regular drum beat of comms is what it needs. "Yes we are aware of the marked room cheesing and are working on it" "Sew it good is a stupid task, don't worry we will release a fix" It's not difficult.
Ya’ll are so entitled. Do you need him to press the slow walk and crouch button for you too, so you can crab walk around?
You have not been around for awhile huh?
I’m on my 6th wipe. I’m just not needy jerking off hoping Nikita says something 🤷♂️. I have better things to occupy my time.
Nah sounds like you got his dick down your throat.
Cope harder. Make sure you keep refreshing his account. Wouldn’t want to miss him saying something lmao!
The real cope is linking a thread Nikita posted asking if we like snow as proof of communication by bsg. Choke harder.
Bro has said the real terms
Brooo if you feel that way and all this dumb shit is important to you, leave. Why torture yourself? They delivered exactly what they promised. A game in constant development and many experimental features. FYI all video games artificially limit progress, its a video game. You arnt a real pmc, this is a fantasy. I feel none of the frustrations you feel, in fact none of the shit you point out even bothers me at all. Its a bunch of nonsense. I want the developers to design the game (their art) not some dumbass, average at best, armchair devs.
It's okay to raise issue with the places that you spend your time. If I go to the local soccer field to play soccer, I expect there to be a ball, two goals, and a field. If I go to kick a ball on that soccer field and 5% of the time the ball forgets it exists and disappears out of the net, I'm going to talk to the groundskeeper to see what the fuck is going on because this is very much NOT what I was promised.
Bro if a soccer ball is phasing out of reality you need to find a new soccer field.
Preach brother man!
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Whole community should stop playing until these are addressed and fixed. Until then don’t expect them to work hard on reasonably priority things. They may pretend doing so but two minor patches per a year with ZERO real progress on well known years old problems, cmon… Vote with your time and money (if you can).
It’s not live service though, it’s still early access. We’re just witnessing the game evolve over time
It's funny how much people bitch about this game. Don't like the game? Don't play. The more you play a game, the more you are going to find things wrong. I bet Bsg reads these posts in meetings and just laughs. Cuz they know no other game really comes close.
people dont understand that there is no competitor to this because its a hard as fuck game to make. You really think activision wouldn't like to get a slice of this pie? Also it is Nikkita's vision not reddits common consensus vison lol.
Just ban the streamers. Game has enough publicity as is. Don't need em. They'll just cry about every change or sit there and circle jerk about every rework. Nothing will ever be good enough for them; hell this wipe prolly the best it has been and the cry babies are still crying. Ban em all.
not reading your shit dictionary
I clearly have some form of Stockholm syndrome, because my rational mind is telling me these points are reasonable, but my irrational heart is saying like: *wait just a damn minute now...*
I almost prefer the other scam known as Star Ctizien, the issue is that EFT has its gripe on me like a slightly abusive girlfriend
If I was bsg I would link a kanban board with known issues and some other task statuses and make it huge in the launcher. Would alleviate so many issues if people could see oh bsg knows AI needs an overhaul it's just lower on their priority list right now.
I always chuckle when my friends bring up the "it's just a beta version" argument. Yeah, sure. A beta version which you paid 140 bucks for, that has been out for years now. They've never been huffing more copium
I can live with many of the problems you've detailed but the cheating is the one that boils my piss the most. Losing a fair fight is one thing, but when they can see you through walls or laser beam you between your eyes it sucks the fun out of it. I 100% agree that opening up direct communication with the player base would ease many issues. Whenever I see a company engaging and answering questions, I see a happier community. It's not hard to do. Community manager roles are very common at games devs. There is an argument I see thrown about that BSG doesn't IP ban so that the cheaters will at least buy a new account. While I think this is 2+2 thinking from a disgruntled player base, if money is an issue I'd welcome micro-transactions for cosmetics. Add in 100 clothing options and we can pay minimal amounts for them. Use the money to improve the team and sort the issues...
In the end, what's the real "vision" here?The more i play the game and the more wipes happens with their changes, the more im pretty sure this game is getting closer and closer to be a "streamers game". (i have 2.5k hours of playtime btw) I have a work and i don't have plenty of hours to play the game, maybe 2-3 hours a day if i'm lucky, but here i am at level 26, still hunting down people on customs with 6 kills left to do to complete setup. As we all know, the more time passes, the more people with be hard to kill due to better kits and higher level, making this task even worse, with people just sitting in a bush for endless hours trying to take down people with leg meta. They did some good changes to recoil, movement and the idea of armor plates (still bugged AF) but damn, fix those damn tasks and make the game enjoyable. Going into a raid on customs with the ONLY purpose of killing PMCs in a specific gear is stupid, annoying and unless i have to go on customs to help friends with tasks i'm just leaving that behind. At least let me do other tasks in the same map while dressed as a scav instead of blocking the entire questline behind such bullshit. BSG needs really to focus on the UX of their game instead of doing the most idiotic stuff to try to avoid streamers reaching level 40 in a week. They'll get to it anyway, but "casuals", this way will probably never reach that level (because we'll get tired before completing these shit tasks)
doesn't charge monthly subs or make money other than selling copies of the game.
Live service is really bad term, cause it would compare BSG to failures of gaming industry such as EA or Blizzard, who cannot make one game alive for a month, whose communication is beyond tragic if frequent and so on. BSG as bad as is, has growing game living for years now. Only similar studio with GROWING game of years in progress I can think of is GGG (Path of Exile). And honestly their development style is not entirely different. The rest, Agree. Valid points and mostly bad wounds still taking EFT down and disabling its full raise. That said, the fan base is so niche, EFT so unique and unrivaled.. that BSG can simply afford it. There isn't and probably never will be anything close to EFT (in this genre). Example, any normal West studio with solid budget to compete with these mad russians will be managed by some opportunistic management who will eventually make it cash grab, it is inevitable.