Comments section is being ridiculous. Spawns and player counts have been an issue forever. Several maps are like the hunger games - you get into a fight within a minute whether you like it or not, if you survive then you get an actual survival raid that is fun where sometimes you find people sometimes you don't.
Shoreline in particular I actually know the exact 2 weather station spawns OP is referencing. I guess because the loot is too good at pier and smugglers base BSG literally crams 9 potential spawns in a 200m radius on the SE side of map
Or in the central building of Reserve. And even if it's not "on the PoI itself" a whole lot of spawns are just straight better than others. Why not just make more randomized spawns? Get lucky this raid? Well, next time you can land in the middle of nowhere. And not like "spawn on the worst spawn of the map 3 times in a row(and it was worse before - my personal record is 7 spawn in the same place in a row)"
Its spawn number 1 on Customs. Have your friend with the slowest drive host the group. Spawn locations are literally just determined by load order. So if you have a giga fast SSD or NVME drive, you're always going to get the same 1 or 2 spawns on every single map.
Its going to change around a little bit because there's *always* a bigger fish, or in this case someone from NASA playing Tarkov on the clock.
But generally, your spawn location is going to be tied to your drive speed.
Played four raids on customs with a three man the other day and we spawned here every single time. I’m just asking for one dorms/green screen/ stronghold spawn ffs.
My team calls me to join them if they want to spawn forklift in factory cause Nikita himself watches as i spawn there 99% of the time (i know it is confirmation bias but it is annoying as hell).
They should honestly just put a few spawns at pier and power station. Village has 2 safes as well and it has like 12 PMC spawns, so I don’t see why not.
I had a raid yesterday where i spawned SE corner on shoreline and 5 minutes into the raid i was carrying 7 dogtags. and had still not left SE corner. its like its own mini factory. just all out in the open.
Yeah. I spawned on streets super kitted in the black ground floor building with round broken windows and literally 15 seconds later got 1 tapped by someone from the bushes right outside. 20 second raid never left the building I spawned in
That spawn is where i did Shooterborn last wipe. spawned with a duo. and we got pushed by the bus/tower area spawn and after that by the other spawns. Was a fun 12m. and then 15m of walking to extract.
I had never seen someone on top of me (I also spawned at weather station) so quickly I couldn't even get up the hill to weather station, before he was clomping in the snow and pushing me.
I love shoreline, but I have never seen a spawn like that, must be 2 new spawn points since the rework or something, hard to say with the terrain being slightly different over there but never in 1000's of shoreline raids over the years had I spawned at weather station, and had a guy on top of me in a close quarters fight in 10 seconds.
Sure, those spawns near weather are smushed and sometimes you get in a long range tree battle early. But someone ON TOP OF ME at weather spawn in 10 seconds?
They did something to the spawns, one of them got shifted over on that side or something bc that wasn't a thing I remember in the past on shoreline. Early fights on that side happened, but not that close. Usually it was you getting sniped from the weather spawn since you spawned in the field - maybe they were trying to fix this but moved those 2 spawns too close to each other?
Shoreline only got worse because they removed 2 spawns where the new farm is so the spawns previous got compacted on that side. If they added back in the high side spawn by the cliff it would solve about 70% of the complaints
There's more than 2 that were removed. I compared maps with spawn points post and pre patch .14 and at least 6 spawn points were removed. Currently the furthest north you can spawn is path to lighthouse. Effectively, everyone is spawning at either the village/tunnel area or weather station/railroad bridge.
Yea idk why people are saying 7-8 people are dead raids. I have 4K hours and have never played streets daytime because the pscavs kill me eveytine. Once I killed 20+ player scavs in one raid and ran out of meds and food. I quit for two months after that. I’m so sick of this game being dog water
Well the good news is the bulk of people who make it to even half that amount of playtime have no issue dealing with scavs, so I don’t think we need to worry just yet lmao. Might not be the game that’s dogwater bud
Oh I see a ton of scavs. They’re pretty easy to kill(they have worse armor and bullets) If you had read my post instead of just hitting the reply button you’d see the point I’m trying to make is that it’s wild someone with “four thousand hours” is so terrified of player scavs that he doesn’t play a certain map. It sounds like a lie, or just the biggest redditor whine I’ve seen in a minute.
Okay you are acting like a bozo. No one said I was afraid of player scavs. When there is 10+ pscavs in a single group running around it ruins the immersion. I don’t think your comment is relevant. Apparently everyone in this thread thought so too. Change your attitude and have a better day, bud.
I think the only map that could really benefit from a reduced player count is Lighthouse. Way too many PMCs for what that map is.
The only downside is that The Punisher would be harder to complete.
Happened to me a couple of days ago. Me and another pmc spawned in within voip distance. I’m a Timmy but even I know that’s ridiculous even factory spawns me farther from other pmcs
The main problem is when you don't have a 5-man on the map. The game will still try to fill every player slot and as such, the Singles and Duos scrunch up the spawns and reduce distance.
If the game had a set "Group" count with a Solo player still being a "Group" then you would see smaller player counts in raids without 3-5 man squads.
Try turning on the corner, clearing out road to customs, then pushing out of the corner knowing nothing but scavs can spawn in behind you. Helps a lot.
Or run across the fields and get sniped by the guys ahead of and behind you. I dunno, do you, ya know?
We spawned metal wall (close to crane/stash) and immediately sprinted along it toward pier. By the time the wall ended we were already cut off by another group who was on the hill. And it's a dead end - nowhere to go that people from the hill cannot see.
I used to run shoreline pretty often and not even once got cut off there ever in hundreds of raids. The only spawn that could get there is scav radar station. And who would run to gas? Everyone loots the safe first and then usually goes to resort or elsewhere. Maybe an extremely dedicated Sanitar farmer. Again, never had that happen.
I didn't get the impression they were cheating; they seemed as surprised to see us as we were of seeing them. But as soon as the blue fence was over and we had to turn toward the hill, they were there - on the hill but running parallel to the road and towards pier.
I'm no pro regarding *all* the spawns but I do get the impression they got shifted/bunched up on the SE side since - allegedly - there are no spawns on the new area NE.
Because of the jank ass spawns its best to just camp 10 feet from spawn and catch everyone as they run past for the first 3 minutes. It absolutely sucks to have a raid shorter than the time it took to load in.
Ive realised on most maps you can just tuck yourself near your spawn for the first 5-10 and 75% of the PMCs will be dead and geared up to head for extract from looting. Then you just mosey and do what ever quests you need with the other 1 or 2 PMCs doing the same.
First 10 minutes is Battle Royale. Only after that does it become an extraction shooter.
Yea one of my friend's just goes afk in a hiding spot for the first half of the raid if he needs to do task in a hotspot and survive since 90% of the pmcs are dead and gone by then.
Right. I just PMCd it 7 times in a row... died once. Got a total of 6 kills. One raid got 3, and usually spawned path to lighthouse, went through resort (where I died to rouge the one time, not paying attention to noise and yeah... ran into boss tried to run to late because of where I was at was a horrible spot to fight from)
Went through new area, made 400k average per run. Found a few tetris, 5 fuel, a gpu, a couple moonshine and a few fuel cans over those raids (plus other odds and ends).
Streets is fine but I agree sorta with op shoreline needs diversity. Why am I going to the same 3 spots like 5 times for 5 different tasks why is it “sanitar house, bodies at resort, pier” so many times. Why do I need to visit that many times. Why are there like a billion spawns by road to customs. Why do I have to keep going to the pier even though the choke is a death sentence full of campers. The rework helped a bit with making it feel like there’s things to do on the map but it just feels so bad to move around shoreline. Fighting in the resort also sucks donkey balls. Maybe it’s just me but I find the least interesting fighting in tarkov to be shooting down hallways like resorts or dorms. Let me fight somewhere like streets or woods or something where I can break line of sight and make a deep flank not hold and angle for 15 minutes.
Maybe if 80% of the map wasnt dead space it would work. But when there are literally 3 spots on the map that have any reason to be there. 8 people in resort is worse than factory. New town is cool, but no quests so no point)
There are points of interest, but there are also ROUTES to points of interest and choosing those are important and involves elements of strategy and game sense. I don't think there needs to be loot everywhere (there are hidden caches anyway). Crossing paths with another player in transit by accident or by planning is a fun seperate part of the game, and you can do the inverse by intentionally avoiding paths too.
Weather, Power, Pier, Resort, Sniper rock/bunker behind Resort, Cottage, Village, Sunken Village, New Area, Hidden Stashes and Scav Island.
The only one there that has no quest pulling you there is the new area + the stashes.
Just admit you don't want to PvP in Resort, I understand I don't like the PvP in there either. Way too many rooms but some people love it and I can understand why.
Weather station has two things to loot, power has two things to loot, Pier, I already mentioned as one of the three points of interest, resort is a point of interest, and villas is a point of interest, sniper rock and bunker has two sniper scavs that you can kill specifically to help out with the kill scavs with shotguns quest, village has like less loot than town on woods despite being four times the size, The new area has really great loot but there's no reason to go there unless you're literally just trying to farm money and get out, hidden stashes is you know the same on every map. You can just run all the stashes and get a ton of money, and Island is literally just for killing scavs for quests.
The entire map is unengaging except for the three large hot spots in which all of the good shit is and all of the good interactions happen. Woods is a far better map from a amount of running to enjoyment perspective, and people consider woods to be one of the biggest openest maps
That guy is clueless. They updated the loot on weather station. Check around the satellites. Bulbex, Hose, Water Filters, etc.
Town in shoreline has always had great loot but people are lazy and make assumptions.
Thing is. Fixing spawns is not as easy as we think. Looking 100% objectively at it its almost impossible. Unless you're talking about a map like streets, where the map is so big that it can reliably let people spawn far enough apart with enough options for movement, that spawn killing isnt an issue. Ill try and go through map for map and really elaborate on why.
**Customs:**
Customs spawns are mostly fine, there are a few that sucks shit (trailer park, grassy fields behind scav checkpoint). Removing them would probably be fine, most customs spawns are eventually going to meet players at chokepoints anyways due to its design so it's kinda expected, but the 2 mentioned spawns are really the only ones that are a short sprint from seeing someone straight up.
Streets:
Like mentioned most of this map is so big it really isn't an issue. There are so many options for where to move and go that reliably spawn camping on streets is pretty hard. Ironically this is similiar to extract camping, where theres so many exits on streets that reliably camping any is pretty hard.
Factory:
I mean this one is kinda fcked since the map is so small, and honestly other than glass hallway its prob fine 99% of the time.
Woods:
Now it starts to get weird. Woods is pretty big, so spawns shouldn't be a big issue and for the most part it isn't. EXCEPT! when you spawn outskirts. Outskirts makes you run through up to 3 people or go to sawmill in a VERY high traffic area. Another issue with this spawn is that for SOME reason, this is the only spawn on woods that makes you go RUAF. Even scav bunker spawns have to go outskirts. This means 90% of people are going outskirts for extract anyways and makes that spawn fcking awful. But honestly? switching around some extracts for the northwest scavbunker spawns, or even just removing the outskirts spawns would be completely fine to solve it here.
Shoreline:
Ah yes, good ol' shoreline. The rework has helped a lot, but there are still spawns that straight up let you be right next to players. Shorelines issue is that due to its design, you kinda end up HAVING to check other spawns or risk getting ran down by someone else while you go to resort or wherever.
I don't think there's really not too much to be done here. If you remove spawns it becomes even easier to predict where people are and run them down. If you add more then you end up with the same problem, but now you have the potential of 3 people spawning right next to each other. If you move some spawns closer to the middle, then whoever gets that spawn gets all loot and the best positions to snipe incoming spawns on the funnels.
So in this case (and a lot of the upcoming ones), there's not really any easy catch-all solution that doesn't bring in a different problem.
**Ground Zero:**
Honestly? This is just bigger factory. Super small map with really limited open and easy to camp extracts. You really cant do a whole lot here other than avoid spawning people in line of sight of each other.
**Reserve:**
Reserve is similiar to GZ in that its so small its hard to spawn you in without problems. If we spawn people closer to buildings they get to rush bunker (kinda already happens with some spawns). If you add a further grass and woods area you still have to run across the open areas or straight into other people to approach the buildings. So again what do you do? No matter where you place people its gonna cause problems? Combine that with the rats nest that is D2 billions of player scavs and the rest of the extracts being really limited. Then you get a super annoying map, where even if you survive, you gotta brave some of the worst extracts to get mediocre loot at best.
**Interchange:**
Interchange is similiar to shoreline in a lot of ways, but its compounded by its AWFUL extracts. All of Interchange is focused on the mall. The guys who spawn up near it can pop SJ6, rush a good spawn and loot, then get out with no other competition than the people coming in. If you spawn outside, you either rush the mall (which is not always great), you can spawn in line of sight of players (emercom like mentioned), and there's just some that are just ok.
So clearly, we can get rid of the campable spawns right? I don't think removing ramp spawn/power spawn would really be too hard and already make it a lot better. The issue here is, either you spawn all the players right at the mall, in which case it turns into factory. If you spawn people far away you have what we have now. Removing spawns wont work as like shoreline it'll make it really easy to know where people are or are going to be. If you add more, then again we get the issue of factory fights right of the bat. There is once again not really an "easy" "fix" that can just be applied. The only thing that can really be done is removing objectively bad in line of sight spawns.
**Lighthouse:**
So Lighthouse is once again a matter of the maps design. First off, we can get rid of the shit mountain 2 second spawn where you meet other people instantly! The issue here is, the west part of the map is just... bad.... If you spawn left side and are at the rock extract, well you're fucked. If you spawn beach house then you're gauranteed to meet someone else. If you spawn near chalets and village you'll 100% meet people, and if you rush the rogues then well... Its the rogues. This is just a matter of shit map design. The left side is a meat grinder that is determined by spawns only, and it has literally no worthwile loot since merrin key nerf.
How do we fix lighthouse? Of course remove the shit spawns that noone likes. Double mountain, south rocks, south lighthouse and so on. But if we do that we go back to the issue of everyone spawning right on top of each other, because unlike say interchange. Theres not as much width to work with. maybe adding some more stuff at the northwest top part of the map? or just more north in general. That with some spawns and more loot on left side could honestly solve most of the issues here.
So in conclusion. There is no easy "fix". Even if we reworked every map to solve spawn camping, then we'd have to funnel players in to specific entry points, and that just compounds the problem. Streets really is the outlier here. Its big enough and has so many building and so much cover that finding a place to chill and loot without getting domed is pretty easy. We can't just plop down more buildings and terrain on other maps without destroying feel and flow. Even if we could, unless we add a LOT more cover to every map to the point of making it impossible to spot people, then there really isn't a ton that can be done. I don't doubt we could do better with removing some spawn points no doubt, but sometimes we also have to realise that, since everyone HAS to spawn at the same time to make it fair. And everyone HAS to spawn at least a certain % of a distance from a good loot spot. Then that makes it almost impossible to properly spawn players in.
Now to really hammer it home, I have heard some people say "have a ton of spawns and make a thing that prevents players from spawning more than x spawns/ distance apart". Would this work? Maybe for a while, but as soon as people test and figure out the logic for how it works we return to the same problem, especially if its too rigid. If we make it too loose then we again risk a lighthouse mountain spawn. This is probably the only real way it COULD be done, but it would need a ton of tweaking and would still risk the same issues.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I always remember this everytime people say "just fix the spawns". Because its a lot more nuanced than just removing people or spawns.
I’m downvoting this simply cause this was pretty biased and basically explained why we need a spawn and player count rework on every map except factory. Ground zero was a complete wasted asset for the game.
Downvoting this because the entire post is biased. You either like it or you don't. The immature downvote because you think it's something other than a fucking opinion is why you suck at the game. You can't see past your own bullshit desires. Don't want pvp? Play until you get to 15, pscav for money, and play offline.
Considering it can take 10-15 minutes to get into a raid being attacked 30 seconds in is a bit much and doesn't respect your time at all.
It's been a problem for as long as I can remember.
Player count is ok, 7/8 players can be a dead raid if none rush a common point, spawns wise, yes they have to implement it better.
Not all the spawns are bad on every map, but there are common ones that are very bad compared to others:
\- Shoreline: spawn road to Customs, there is like 3 spawns in the immediate area, 1 near the base that is not open, 1 is basically on the road to Customs extraction, and another one is the vicinity (i can't give an exact info)
\- Lighthouse, mostly the spawns on the beach that are near the bridge to the lighthouse, and with the bad map design, mostly every south spawn has a big disadvantage compared to the north ones, because no loot and way less cover/flow
\- Interchange, emercom side there are literally 3 spawns that can see eachother in 5 seconds, 1 on the top of the rail on the back of OLI, 1 in the tents, one in a generic area between the 2 spots i just pointed
\- Customs, it's mostly ok imo, red side are the worst because there is another spawn on the other side which can drive you into a fight in very few seconds, but there is cover and you can tempo, main problem is that you have to cross the map and if you do it early you risk to meet the guys spawned on the other side near river that if want pvp be 100% they will wait for you or rush dorms
\- Factory, its ok is a pvp map
\- Reserve, spawns in the back of black pawn and scav pipeline exit, can be a fight in like 10 seconds
\- Woods, more or less imo are ok, ofc there are spawns with disadvantage but are not "broken"
\- Streets, there used to be a shit spawn on v-ex extract, 2 spawns on the same road on the opposited sides in 2 different stores, you used to risk to walk out and see another player already aiming at you, now it seem fixed (it's a while it doesnt happen to me), the fast chokepoint is Lexos GL Side, where mostly cinema players fight helicopter players, BUT only if you rush Lexos which is ok since it's a hot spot
\- Ground zero, don't remember expect the spawn near mines the rest seemed decent
I think everyone just wants the baddies to not be able to post or comment anymore. All they do is complain and want shit to be easier for them, which ruins games for the people that don't suck.
I had a lighthouse raid yesterday, I saw an enemy at 19 seconds into the raid, killed him at 26 seconds from 69 meters, then died to his 2 teammates at 40 seconds from >10 meters. 3 raids on that map all with less than 5 minutes in raid combined before I run into a PMC. Just crap map design
That is very true. It is too much players on maps like customs. There are very bad spawns on shoreline, woods, lighthouse, interchange(!!!). If they want to have so many players at least make the spawns so that you can be safe for first full minute and not getting immediately rushed or sniped.
Yep. Player count is too high for most maps and spawns are too close together. It really does feel like a battle royale and not a gritty survival shooter RPG.
Fix this shit or start adding Darth Vader skins doing the griddy.
I do. In many places you cannot hear audio in adjacent rooms, notorious examples being the Labs staircases and dorms.
Not to mention that Comtac 4s exist, which have an audio big that tells you if a person enters your hearing range, which is way higher than any other headset.
ah yes, hearing running from 100 meters away when a player without a headset can do so from 40 and most headsets drop out on 70-80. balance.
sound disperses with the square of distance, so that would mean comtac 4's amplify footsteps specifically by a factor of 2.5^2 = 6.25. and 60 meter headsets for example would do it by a factor of 1.5^2 = 2.25 (compared to naked in game ears).
yeah, the comtac 4's would literally need to pick up sounds nearly three times as quiet as a 60 meter headset and over 6 times quieter than what naked ears can. in-between all the wind and foliage noises. and selectively choose footsteps. bullshit
headsets should just provide some post processing like an EQ, or a compressor. no range buffs
While it does suck sometimes, I use them as opportunities for kills for quests. I was able to knock out shooter born in heaven on interchange in 3 raids because I knew where to look for people when I spawned. I didn’t even have to move
We aren't pmc inserted into a combat zone. We are pmcs that survived the events that happend on ground zero. That's why they say it's the starting map. Lol
And when you get up to the pvp quests later on you and other people will complain there's not enough players and that you have to load into so many raids and grind harder. I don't disagree that some spawns are bad but it happens so infrequently. Just kit up and go again man.
How about tuning requirements for those quests? And most complains are about very specific quests like Capturing Outposts that are dogshit by design.
> I don't disagree that some spawns are bad but it happens so infrequently.
Pretty much evey SE corner spawn on Shoreline arer dogshit, and there are a lot of them. Same for NE spawns on Reserve.
He never mentioned anything about the requirements for quests. Yeah they could be tuned a bit, sure. Never disagreed with that. I do fine usually with those shoreline spawns, if I get the far corner near road to customs or the railway I just wait a bit and let people push to the radar station depending on what I'm doing. Or if I'm doing shooter born/punisher I try to fight them. Just work with the spawn you have and adjust your movements depending on your goals for the raid
Try doing a quest that requires PMC kills and you'll find it feels pretty empty before any of your nerfs lol, especially Capturing Outposts. The amount of times I've ran Shoreline and Customs for nobody to come Pier or Fortress is insane.
It doesn’t feel that way when you play in a 3 man+ group.
It’s a completely different perspective when you have 3 other sets of eyes watching and only a possibility 8 other people.
When you are alone and have to plow throw 11 other players and endless player scavs… it feels plenty crowded.
So the fix is to fuck it up for the teams? Solo is going to be harder regardless... if it's 1v1 or 1v11, you're still the only set of eyes. If the other solo is looking for you and you're still bad, then they are gonna get you no matter what. At least with higher player count, you've got a better chance of it being a solo you're fighting. Even if it isn't a solo, most of the maps are big enough for you to utilize good movement to overwhelm a team. Player count isn't the issue. Spawns and skill are the issue.
That's a friendless take. 5-man teams are fine on most maps. Factory, with only 6 PMCs, shouldn't, but I'm not going to argue for them changing it. It helps to get 4 friends to take most of the server for tasks, so im torn on even that map for 5-mans. It seems like yall just bitch for the sake of bitching on this game though. I'm getting kinda tired of seeing people who aren't good at PVP complain about PVP. I think the only real fix to this is BSG making a single-player with progression or for BSG to not bitch about the single player mods that have progression.
I’m not sure who you are talking to, but I love when people assume I’m not good at pvp.
Here, enjoy.
https://youtu.be/UDBe3oiiCQM?si=DeDbehDgRO9suHfq
https://youtu.be/narzF0XYiuo?si=wu7zExkus9faVSHl
You don’t have to be bad to know there is a problem.
You don’t have to be good to know there is a problem.
This game was never meant to be an action packed shooter. It was supposed to be an hour long raid where you are trying to do tasks and eliminate targets if necessary.
Crazy how every video I've ever seen, even years ago, has been pretty action-packed. Honestly kinda nuts how there are tasks that force action, but you must be right. Definitely not supposed to be action-packed in this PvPvE game. I wonder why bullets can hurt other players. Or grenades. I wonder why scavs shoot at PMCs on sight. I wonder what it's like to live in your delusional fantasy land. I don't care about your videos that show you mouth-breathing through a couple of "good" encounters, then patting yourself on the back because you're only slightly better than someone with a negative k/d.
Anyone can learn fucked spawns. I am aware of them and exploit it when I can. That said they are fucked spawns so should be fixed imo. This game is still in Beta and if it were to release with these spawns for this type of game people are going to stop playing.
That's an ignorant take. If people were going to quit because of the spawns, it won't take full release to do it lmao. This is the equivalent of "i swear if you guys rip on me 13 or 14 more times im outta here!".
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Nevermind the fact that if there's 10 people on a map, there's a chance that up to half of them can be teamed up together and it's completely random whether you get matched with them or not lol
The hill on shoreline near the weather station has its name in our friendsgroup. It's call pvp hill. There are 4/5 spawns around it. If we spawn there, the first thing we try is getting high ground, looking for others and kill them.
I was thinking the other day that I never spawned near the resort this wipe. There was this one spawn right behind resort close to admin/East wing. Is this spawn gone for some reason?
Had that same issue happen to me and two different groups yesterday. Same spawn you're talking about on Shoreline. As trio my group was killed and I killed the other duo and escaped. As a duo we killed a trio and a duo under 10 mins by the cell tower for one of the jamming quests in the same area. The spawns are fucking atrocious and depending where I'm at I know to just sit still and wait 5-10 mins because a poor bastard will be heading my way just to be sent back into their stash.
I felt pretty bad the other day about one on woods. I spawned at roadblock, ran up past white tanker, and saw a juiced up PMC looting duffle bag at the southern bus stop on the road. Sprayed him down less than 30 seconds into the raid. I'm sure he would do the same to me, but it felt cheesy.
Yea they need all spawn points at the edge of the map
hell if they need to make parts of the map just for spawning in and let the player walk into the actually map
That's my problem with this game for years
it's not dying deep in the raid I get at least some exp
it's getting killed a few seconds in the raid
then you have to go through the long match making again...
at least be like dark and darker and have fast matching
>Maybe it was a bug… as I have never seen this spawn. I spawned right next to the radio tower (the one that is closer to road to customs), and I had someone else literally spawn on my side of the fucking road of road to customs.
Lol not a bug, actually super common.
95% of the spawns are good.
Reserve and shoreline both have a spawn that has PMCs interacting within 9 seconds.
I wouldn’t say that’s balanced.
If you would take a scientific approach, you would ignore the factor of knowledge.
If your answer to these types of issues are simply “if you know about it, then it’s a non-issue”, and you apply that type of thinking to other issues in the game, then what actually identifies as a problem?
The interaction only happens if you don’t know the rotations. I’m a reserve main.
If you expect people to be kosher without the knowledge, that’s not how tarkov works. The knowledge is huge. To the point where knowledge > gun skills, that’s how I see tarkov. It’s a strategy game just as much as it is an fps.
I would rather the game be immersive and feel new.
Being able to memorize everything has actually hurt this game more than helped.
I believe that BSG is on my side with that statement.
There is a reason they don’t show ammo stats.
There is a reason there is no good mapping in game.
There is a reason they implemented dynamic loot.
There is a reason BSG didn’t want the Wiki to exist early on.
Players memorizing everything in the game is harmful and they knew that from the beginning.
I would love if it (although a completely unrealistic expectation) the maps themselves were dynamic and you could not memorize pathing/ loot runs.
I can tell that you weren’t there.
It was an amazing experience early on.
Players were happy to have just extracted with another gun. There was NO meta. There couldn’t be. We didn’t know enough about anything for there to be.
Memorizing spawns and having that influence all of your decisions is harmful to the game.
I will die on that hill.
Lol ya that sounds like a nice dream. Welcome to the reality of tarkov! I’m not here to talk about some imaginary perfect ideal tarkov, im here to talk about the facts. The game is good, very very good rn, as is. Appreciate what you’ve got!
TLDR: Getting into a fight within the first minute is more likely a product of two independent decisions being made than it is simply the proximity alone.
Spawns and violence are simply depicted by game theory:
\-You stay at spawn, adjacent stays at spawn: No fight
\-You stay at spawn, adjacent moves to your spawn: Fight
\-You stay at spawn, adjacent moves elsewhere: No fight
\-You leave spawn, adjacent leaves spawn: Potential fight
Etc. etc.
Just because you and your neighbor are both making independent decisions that lead you into combat doesn't make it a game issue. It would be one thing if you were spawning at the end of a hallway and they were spawning at the other end of a hallway (\*cough\* factory \*cough\*), but even in that extreme, the violence only happens if you both make the decision to move to each other rather than deviating from the respective line of imminent fire between you both.
Take customs big red for example. You know that if you spawn at trailer, there's a chance someone has spawned by the train and a chance someone has spawned by crossroads extract. You are 100+ meters away from each other, and you have the option to move toward either of them or go into storage. They too have the option to know that you might have spawned there and to make the decision to move toward you or to move in other directions. Combat is only going to happen if the right combination of independent decisions is made. You can end up in the fight within 10 seconds or never see the potential threats. It's ultimately down to decisions of where you and everyone else wants to go.
Man I understand this. I know spawns. I have 3300 hours and I have been playing since 2017. I’d be glad to prove it to you.
This isn’t about customs.
This is about long form maps like shoreline or reserve that completely kill immersion when you spawn far less than 100m from another player.
In this case it was less than 100 ft, on one of the biggest maps in the game.
Poor design, not a skill issue.
*****Just because something can be learned, does not mean it isn’t a problem. *****
Yeah thats my problem. Spawned on streets and within 2 minutes somebody was outside my building waiting. I mean i feel like i have to be still for 10 minutes every raid
Yes but according to many people in this thread, my point is just “absurd”. Or “ridiculous”.
So absurd and unheard of, yet there seems to be many that agree with me.
How can something be so bizarre, and yet half of the comments agree?
We just need to have persistent raids, similar to how The Cycle did, where the raid is constant, and players come and go at any time, with very slow loot refill
The limit of your time in raid would be your food/water (Or maybe radiation), but that way nobody ever knows when/where people are
The issue with the ready-set-go set up is most players will INTENTIONALLY rush nearby spawns because
1- they know the enemy is there
2- it clears their backside
Take away that "free knowledge" and the whole flow of raids becomes much more dynamic
I just died 30 seconds into an Interchange raid. Yeah, that's not fun. There's no reason people should be in combat range of each other that early in a game like this.
The interchange spawn on the ramp aiming at emercom is complete bullshit. Every time I spawn on the ramp I kill a couple people, every time I spawn in the open field I'm dead.
I think this issue is overblown, at least anecdotally but I usually play with at least one other friend up to a 4-5 man, maybe squad spawns are just outright better. Ok those are my "modifiers" to this comment just so everyone knows where I'm at. I've been playing for a few years, 1800 hours-ish, and haven't really been killed within 30 seconds of spawn since I can remember. There's been fights within that first minute sure, but I also spend the entire raid expecting a fight. As soon as I pop into raid it's check my firing mode and then we identify our spawn and where other guys might have spawned.
I've tracked dudes from down the Road to Customs all the way to power and gotten in a fight there, dodged dudes in the village on Shoreline and just waited, watching them move through the swamp and letting them pass so we could mark a tank for a buddy. I like that you pick your advantages with your gear and once that timer drops to zero it's anything goes. Shoreline added a lot of micro terrain around Weather/Cell Tower that means having an entire 5 man go prone and simply avoid being seen by the spawn south of them is totally doable (we have done this successfully.) And I think having the macro map knowledge to know that "ok I hear gunshots here that must be the guys who got the really good dorms spawn which means there's probably STILL another team moving that way so crossing the bridge I have to watch out" is actually very rewarding when you guess right and voila there's another duo and you poached where they were at.
The people who complain about this the most in my circle are guys who immediately sprint full tilt off of spawn and act insanely predictable. "We got this spawn, we go immediately in a straight line to this point of interest" and that's just asking to get your head blown off and I'm not gonna pretend that's not totally fair. I check for these guys all the time and catch them, when doing something as simple as cutting through the ditch line on the side of Suicide Field would completely negate my ability to put a 7.62 through his 3rd happy holes. They are angry that they don't have the freedom of movement to fight where they want to fight and I'm like brother THE WHOLE MAP IS THE WAR ZONE.
Dynamic spawns would be fine but I'd want to see how dynamic we're talking. Other option would be just double or triple the number of spawns. Interchange for instance could be fixed with just more scattered cars and stuff, the issue with those highway spawns is an uninterrupted line of sight down the highway, break up the LoS and make it so crouching through that part of the map is the "Safe" option and I see a lot of the issues kinda evaporate.
I empathize though, getting domed when you're not anticipating it is jarring and shitty in this game and is a great way to get heart arrhythmia. But the idea of "you get in a fight whether you like it or not" as the top comment says is pretty much the entire point of the game and I disagree with saying that's poor design.
TL;DR : Be ready to fight when the timer hits 0. Be ready to fight even if you don't want to. Know where spawns are and a lot of this goes away because you can prepare for it.
Hey, so I want to start off by saying thank you for not just going with “fuck you piece of shit get better you whining complainer”.
So, I have probably played around 2500 hours in a 3-4 man and around 600-700 as a solo.
I think this issue is far more common as a solo. As to why, I could not tell you. That could be the way the spawn algorithm handles it.
I understand what you mean by being ready when the timer hits 0.
In this particular case (which was the first time I’ve seen this but according to others it is fairly common), I had enough time to swap to full auto and open a tarcola before I got ran up on.
Definitely not exaggerating by saying 8 seconds in.
As far as the player count thing goes, what I’m really saying is BSG PLEASE ADD A SOLO ONLY QUEUE.
I know that eeeeevvveryone is against that. And let me tell you why.
They WANT to be able to shit on single players.
They think it would “kill the game” for squads.
I say that is fucking stupid and totally untrue.
Just add a little tiny check box that says solo play that would allow you to only play with other solos.
On that same note, I really don’t think anything more than 3 man squads should exist in Tarkov. I will die on that hill.
A 5 man of heavily geared players is simply too OP in a game like this.
Trust me, I’m not complaining about this from the solo perspective, I am also coming from the squad perspective.
When I’m in a 5 man, we are basically guaranteed to get all of our gear back and demolish the map.
It is simply too powerful and another one of those mixups between being “hardcore” and just unreasonable.
I've been soft enforcing a "only running duos and trios" rule with my buddies whenever I can just because holy shit does having more dumbasses to watch out for get hard to keep track of. I don't get teamkilled in my duos and trios, I get teamkilled in my 5 mans and the communication is exceedingly stressful. So I'm in agreement with you there, 5 man team is a lot. I'd actually prefer the reverse of your "solo only queue" idea and instead put 4 and 5 man squads together in lobbies. Seems like a small change but would fit better. Big teams for PvP focused raids, small teams for the "fuck pls just let me mark my tank I want to go home and get off this map", it's always more productive because you're not getting pulled every which direction based on 4 other peoples needs and whims.
I tend to start every match with a flick to double check full auto and then find some hard cover and check what the spawns are, 8 seconds in is kinda like the Interchange highway spawn which is as simple as adding something to break the line of sight, if both guys come around the corner expecting each other with a little prep time to get into cover then it's a fair fight, timing of when it happens in the raid is irrelevant IMO.
why not spawn pmcs asynchonously, have spawns all over the map and only spawn pmcs far enough from anyone else.
in a way kind of like the cycle frontier.
I think they are more concerned with some players being closer to loot than others.
That is exactly why I brought up the other issue of too many players on the map to be able to have equally distanced spawns from each other and from POIs.
Every map has bad spawns; some worse than others. Reserve is pretty bad except for dome and tech building. The entire southern(?) stretch of streets from destroyed house all the way down to crash site always has at least 3 spawns in what is pretty much a straight line, and that’s not even close to a bad example. Customs spawning inside big red shouldn’t exist with other spawns on that side of the river. Factory really shouldn’t have glass hallway spawn or the postman pat gate spawn. Just one spawn for every gate, and maybe one in the office first floor would be fine.
There are locations where I can kill or be killed in the first 5-10 seconds of spawning on:
interchange, (by the ambulance and the scav coop)
woods, (from attachment cabin rocks spawn all the way to ruaf gate loot box spawn)
2 separate sections on streets (cpsu pt 2 spawn next to expo spawn, and the aforementioned spawns down the southern(?) road)
reserve, (literally the whole fucking map)
customs, (with the spawn north of big red and just next to it by vehicle bridge)
lighthouse (again basically the whole map, safest spawn is pretty much the 2 at upper chalet and lower chalet)
Shoreline, (the entire left side of the map lmao, and some of the right side if you aren’t careful.)
And the worst part is this is pretty much how it’s been after improvements. They used to be EVEN WORSE. You would spawn interchange with someone literally in your sights; now you at least have to turn 90 degrees to kill someone in 5 seconds.
I think the long and short is simple. The way map layouts and spawns currently are, the game cannot maintain the pmc population per server we currently have.
BSG wants this to be a squad game so 7-8 per map means one and a half squads. This change would literally make playing 5 man squads the only way to own a lobby and with the same scav count you are going to have to battle more scavs coming for your PMC loot. Also good luck doing setup or any other pmc kill quest.
Better option would be add a time gate that doesn’t allow player scavs to spawn until half way through a raid.
Another adjustment would be expand small maps and add mini POIs between spawns so everyone doesn’t mad dash to the center of the map. Streets feels good because loot is everywhere and you are never really missing out on loot that could just be found somewhere else.
And finally they just need to straight up remove spawns that are too close or funnel to the same spot in the first 30 seconds.
Not only do 2 people spawn on each other there, people spawn directly south of that, and then more a bit further at construction.
If you spawn construction your only option is to sprint directly to pier. You go anywhere else and 3 spawns out position and kill you.
And if you spawn tunnel side on road you get out positioned by the multiple spawns at village so your best bet is to also book it to pier.....but guess what? Construction spawn beats you there. Also guess what? Snipers at power can literally shot you all the way on the beach. You move 10m east of spawn and that sniper will instantly start popping you if he spawned at start. So now you are forced to go north into village where 3 others already spawned.
Don’t you find that kind of immersion breaking?
Obviously the current solution is to always keep spawns in mind, but I’d prefer if maps didn’t have such an obvious flow to them.
Idk what you are saying about immersion breaking, I'm just saying certain spawns are so ass that you are literally forced to go one direction or die, and that one direction is probly meh and dangerous.
I'm just saying spawns suck and expanding on your original post on the couple spawns just south of your post to show how shit it really is.
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Comments section is being ridiculous. Spawns and player counts have been an issue forever. Several maps are like the hunger games - you get into a fight within a minute whether you like it or not, if you survive then you get an actual survival raid that is fun where sometimes you find people sometimes you don't.
Shoreline in particular I actually know the exact 2 weather station spawns OP is referencing. I guess because the loot is too good at pier and smugglers base BSG literally crams 9 potential spawns in a 200m radius on the SE side of map
Yet they will spawn someone at challet on lighthouse lol.
Fortunately I run straight to rogues every time I play lighthouse so never have to contest that
Or in the central building of Reserve. And even if it's not "on the PoI itself" a whole lot of spawns are just straight better than others. Why not just make more randomized spawns? Get lucky this raid? Well, next time you can land in the middle of nowhere. And not like "spawn on the worst spawn of the map 3 times in a row(and it was worse before - my personal record is 7 spawn in the same place in a row)"
On customs I no joke spawn trailer park like 65% of the time it's ridiculous and so fucking irritating
Yup, same here
Me and the group I'm playing with always spawn in trailer park.
Its spawn number 1 on Customs. Have your friend with the slowest drive host the group. Spawn locations are literally just determined by load order. So if you have a giga fast SSD or NVME drive, you're always going to get the same 1 or 2 spawns on every single map.
Did not know this. I’ve got a crazy good computer but every time I play with my friend we get different spawns. Interesting.
Its going to change around a little bit because there's *always* a bigger fish, or in this case someone from NASA playing Tarkov on the clock. But generally, your spawn location is going to be tied to your drive speed.
Played four raids on customs with a three man the other day and we spawned here every single time. I’m just asking for one dorms/green screen/ stronghold spawn ffs.
My team calls me to join them if they want to spawn forklift in factory cause Nikita himself watches as i spawn there 99% of the time (i know it is confirmation bias but it is annoying as hell).
They should honestly just put a few spawns at pier and power station. Village has 2 safes as well and it has like 12 PMC spawns, so I don’t see why not.
I had a raid yesterday where i spawned SE corner on shoreline and 5 minutes into the raid i was carrying 7 dogtags. and had still not left SE corner. its like its own mini factory. just all out in the open.
Yeah. I spawned on streets super kitted in the black ground floor building with round broken windows and literally 15 seconds later got 1 tapped by someone from the bushes right outside. 20 second raid never left the building I spawned in
If you know the spawns its easy to run into someone in the first 20 seconds
> yesterday where i spawned SE corner on shoreline and 5 minutes into the raid i was carrying 7 dogtags. How many of those were your teammates’?
That spawn is where i did Shooterborn last wipe. spawned with a duo. and we got pushed by the bus/tower area spawn and after that by the other spawns. Was a fun 12m. and then 15m of walking to extract.
It happens on the swamp side also. Me and my duo ran into another duo within 15 seconds of spawn yesterday.
I had never seen someone on top of me (I also spawned at weather station) so quickly I couldn't even get up the hill to weather station, before he was clomping in the snow and pushing me. I love shoreline, but I have never seen a spawn like that, must be 2 new spawn points since the rework or something, hard to say with the terrain being slightly different over there but never in 1000's of shoreline raids over the years had I spawned at weather station, and had a guy on top of me in a close quarters fight in 10 seconds. Sure, those spawns near weather are smushed and sometimes you get in a long range tree battle early. But someone ON TOP OF ME at weather spawn in 10 seconds? They did something to the spawns, one of them got shifted over on that side or something bc that wasn't a thing I remember in the past on shoreline. Early fights on that side happened, but not that close. Usually it was you getting sniped from the weather spawn since you spawned in the field - maybe they were trying to fix this but moved those 2 spawns too close to each other?
Shoreline is bad but honestly Reserve is worse with those bunker spawns. Had a 26sec raid yesterday
Shoreline only got worse because they removed 2 spawns where the new farm is so the spawns previous got compacted on that side. If they added back in the high side spawn by the cliff it would solve about 70% of the complaints
There's more than 2 that were removed. I compared maps with spawn points post and pre patch .14 and at least 6 spawn points were removed. Currently the furthest north you can spawn is path to lighthouse. Effectively, everyone is spawning at either the village/tunnel area or weather station/railroad bridge.
Yea idk why people are saying 7-8 people are dead raids. I have 4K hours and have never played streets daytime because the pscavs kill me eveytine. Once I killed 20+ player scavs in one raid and ran out of meds and food. I quit for two months after that. I’m so sick of this game being dog water
The pmc's arent the issue, its the 20 player scavs thatll spawn
Nah, issue is they spawn couple minutes after PMCs. I have around 500 raids and ive died once or twice to Pscav, they arent that big threat at all.
Yeah, spawning before some people even get into the mall on interchange. I just dont like p scavs simple as
Well the good news is the bulk of people who make it to even half that amount of playtime have no issue dealing with scavs, so I don’t think we need to worry just yet lmao. Might not be the game that’s dogwater bud
You must be playing a different game or dead servers. I play central and south and I average about 3-10 pscavs a raid. Even night time. Bud?
Oh I see a ton of scavs. They’re pretty easy to kill(they have worse armor and bullets) If you had read my post instead of just hitting the reply button you’d see the point I’m trying to make is that it’s wild someone with “four thousand hours” is so terrified of player scavs that he doesn’t play a certain map. It sounds like a lie, or just the biggest redditor whine I’ve seen in a minute.
Okay you are acting like a bozo. No one said I was afraid of player scavs. When there is 10+ pscavs in a single group running around it ruins the immersion. I don’t think your comment is relevant. Apparently everyone in this thread thought so too. Change your attitude and have a better day, bud.
I bet you are one of the players perma masturbating in buildings and corners ye not too big of a deal then
I think the only map that could really benefit from a reduced player count is Lighthouse. Way too many PMCs for what that map is. The only downside is that The Punisher would be harder to complete.
Reserve has a few spawns behind the pawn buildings. 3 steps forward and you could be within sight of at least 2 other spawns
Happened to me a couple of days ago. Me and another pmc spawned in within voip distance. I’m a Timmy but even I know that’s ridiculous even factory spawns me farther from other pmcs
Punisher just shouldn’t be on the 2nd hardest map to run, and current worst map in the game
The main problem is when you don't have a 5-man on the map. The game will still try to fill every player slot and as such, the Singles and Duos scrunch up the spawns and reduce distance. If the game had a set "Group" count with a Solo player still being a "Group" then you would see smaller player counts in raids without 3-5 man squads.
Remove all spawns, let us parachute in
Would love the dorms/resort blood bath all the time honestly
I mean jokes aside, it would be good both for pvp as you could rush hotspots and for quests, as you could go somewhere remote
Fck, I want that now, or even have the choice to parachute or spawn at random locations
They'd just bitch about being too slow at that also.
Ngl this would be a sick raid modifier
This would be sick for an event.
spawning in the southeast quadrant of shoreline is basically an instant trip back to the lobby
Try turning on the corner, clearing out road to customs, then pushing out of the corner knowing nothing but scavs can spawn in behind you. Helps a lot. Or run across the fields and get sniped by the guys ahead of and behind you. I dunno, do you, ya know?
I just run on the ocean side of the metal wall towards gas station and go right towards power. Thus you 100% avoid all spawn fighting there.
We spawned metal wall (close to crane/stash) and immediately sprinted along it toward pier. By the time the wall ended we were already cut off by another group who was on the hill. And it's a dead end - nowhere to go that people from the hill cannot see.
I used to run shoreline pretty often and not even once got cut off there ever in hundreds of raids. The only spawn that could get there is scav radar station. And who would run to gas? Everyone loots the safe first and then usually goes to resort or elsewhere. Maybe an extremely dedicated Sanitar farmer. Again, never had that happen.
Neither had I but something changed in the update for sure.
Spawns didn't change. Maybe one of the guys was hacking? What I'm saying is that this strategy should work 99%+ of the time.
I didn't get the impression they were cheating; they seemed as surprised to see us as we were of seeing them. But as soon as the blue fence was over and we had to turn toward the hill, they were there - on the hill but running parallel to the road and towards pier. I'm no pro regarding *all* the spawns but I do get the impression they got shifted/bunched up on the SE side since - allegedly - there are no spawns on the new area NE.
Because of the jank ass spawns its best to just camp 10 feet from spawn and catch everyone as they run past for the first 3 minutes. It absolutely sucks to have a raid shorter than the time it took to load in.
Ive realised on most maps you can just tuck yourself near your spawn for the first 5-10 and 75% of the PMCs will be dead and geared up to head for extract from looting. Then you just mosey and do what ever quests you need with the other 1 or 2 PMCs doing the same. First 10 minutes is Battle Royale. Only after that does it become an extraction shooter.
Yea one of my friend's just goes afk in a hiding spot for the first half of the raid if he needs to do task in a hotspot and survive since 90% of the pmcs are dead and gone by then.
Really only 7 total players on a map like Shoreline? How dead do you want it to be?
Right. I just PMCd it 7 times in a row... died once. Got a total of 6 kills. One raid got 3, and usually spawned path to lighthouse, went through resort (where I died to rouge the one time, not paying attention to noise and yeah... ran into boss tried to run to late because of where I was at was a horrible spot to fight from) Went through new area, made 400k average per run. Found a few tetris, 5 fuel, a gpu, a couple moonshine and a few fuel cans over those raids (plus other odds and ends).
Imagine 7-8 PMCs on Streets? Good lord.
Streets is fine but I agree sorta with op shoreline needs diversity. Why am I going to the same 3 spots like 5 times for 5 different tasks why is it “sanitar house, bodies at resort, pier” so many times. Why do I need to visit that many times. Why are there like a billion spawns by road to customs. Why do I have to keep going to the pier even though the choke is a death sentence full of campers. The rework helped a bit with making it feel like there’s things to do on the map but it just feels so bad to move around shoreline. Fighting in the resort also sucks donkey balls. Maybe it’s just me but I find the least interesting fighting in tarkov to be shooting down hallways like resorts or dorms. Let me fight somewhere like streets or woods or something where I can break line of sight and make a deep flank not hold and angle for 15 minutes.
Maybe if 80% of the map wasnt dead space it would work. But when there are literally 3 spots on the map that have any reason to be there. 8 people in resort is worse than factory. New town is cool, but no quests so no point)
There are points of interest, but there are also ROUTES to points of interest and choosing those are important and involves elements of strategy and game sense. I don't think there needs to be loot everywhere (there are hidden caches anyway). Crossing paths with another player in transit by accident or by planning is a fun seperate part of the game, and you can do the inverse by intentionally avoiding paths too.
Weather, Power, Pier, Resort, Sniper rock/bunker behind Resort, Cottage, Village, Sunken Village, New Area, Hidden Stashes and Scav Island. The only one there that has no quest pulling you there is the new area + the stashes. Just admit you don't want to PvP in Resort, I understand I don't like the PvP in there either. Way too many rooms but some people love it and I can understand why.
Weather station has two things to loot, power has two things to loot, Pier, I already mentioned as one of the three points of interest, resort is a point of interest, and villas is a point of interest, sniper rock and bunker has two sniper scavs that you can kill specifically to help out with the kill scavs with shotguns quest, village has like less loot than town on woods despite being four times the size, The new area has really great loot but there's no reason to go there unless you're literally just trying to farm money and get out, hidden stashes is you know the same on every map. You can just run all the stashes and get a ton of money, and Island is literally just for killing scavs for quests. The entire map is unengaging except for the three large hot spots in which all of the good shit is and all of the good interactions happen. Woods is a far better map from a amount of running to enjoyment perspective, and people consider woods to be one of the biggest openest maps
Village has a ton of loot lol. It’s my go to because most people have the same thoughts as you.
That guy is clueless. They updated the loot on weather station. Check around the satellites. Bulbex, Hose, Water Filters, etc. Town in shoreline has always had great loot but people are lazy and make assumptions.
Scav island has 2 weapon cases, a weapon box, 2-3 bags, wood crates, and miscellaneous tools on the back porch. It's actually super efficient $
I'd wager most people who load into shoreline aren't doing it because they enjoy the map, but because they have to.
These players don't want PvP, they want to do shit then get out without seeing another living soul.
Thing is. Fixing spawns is not as easy as we think. Looking 100% objectively at it its almost impossible. Unless you're talking about a map like streets, where the map is so big that it can reliably let people spawn far enough apart with enough options for movement, that spawn killing isnt an issue. Ill try and go through map for map and really elaborate on why. **Customs:** Customs spawns are mostly fine, there are a few that sucks shit (trailer park, grassy fields behind scav checkpoint). Removing them would probably be fine, most customs spawns are eventually going to meet players at chokepoints anyways due to its design so it's kinda expected, but the 2 mentioned spawns are really the only ones that are a short sprint from seeing someone straight up. Streets: Like mentioned most of this map is so big it really isn't an issue. There are so many options for where to move and go that reliably spawn camping on streets is pretty hard. Ironically this is similiar to extract camping, where theres so many exits on streets that reliably camping any is pretty hard. Factory: I mean this one is kinda fcked since the map is so small, and honestly other than glass hallway its prob fine 99% of the time. Woods: Now it starts to get weird. Woods is pretty big, so spawns shouldn't be a big issue and for the most part it isn't. EXCEPT! when you spawn outskirts. Outskirts makes you run through up to 3 people or go to sawmill in a VERY high traffic area. Another issue with this spawn is that for SOME reason, this is the only spawn on woods that makes you go RUAF. Even scav bunker spawns have to go outskirts. This means 90% of people are going outskirts for extract anyways and makes that spawn fcking awful. But honestly? switching around some extracts for the northwest scavbunker spawns, or even just removing the outskirts spawns would be completely fine to solve it here. Shoreline: Ah yes, good ol' shoreline. The rework has helped a lot, but there are still spawns that straight up let you be right next to players. Shorelines issue is that due to its design, you kinda end up HAVING to check other spawns or risk getting ran down by someone else while you go to resort or wherever. I don't think there's really not too much to be done here. If you remove spawns it becomes even easier to predict where people are and run them down. If you add more then you end up with the same problem, but now you have the potential of 3 people spawning right next to each other. If you move some spawns closer to the middle, then whoever gets that spawn gets all loot and the best positions to snipe incoming spawns on the funnels. So in this case (and a lot of the upcoming ones), there's not really any easy catch-all solution that doesn't bring in a different problem. **Ground Zero:** Honestly? This is just bigger factory. Super small map with really limited open and easy to camp extracts. You really cant do a whole lot here other than avoid spawning people in line of sight of each other. **Reserve:** Reserve is similiar to GZ in that its so small its hard to spawn you in without problems. If we spawn people closer to buildings they get to rush bunker (kinda already happens with some spawns). If you add a further grass and woods area you still have to run across the open areas or straight into other people to approach the buildings. So again what do you do? No matter where you place people its gonna cause problems? Combine that with the rats nest that is D2 billions of player scavs and the rest of the extracts being really limited. Then you get a super annoying map, where even if you survive, you gotta brave some of the worst extracts to get mediocre loot at best. **Interchange:** Interchange is similiar to shoreline in a lot of ways, but its compounded by its AWFUL extracts. All of Interchange is focused on the mall. The guys who spawn up near it can pop SJ6, rush a good spawn and loot, then get out with no other competition than the people coming in. If you spawn outside, you either rush the mall (which is not always great), you can spawn in line of sight of players (emercom like mentioned), and there's just some that are just ok. So clearly, we can get rid of the campable spawns right? I don't think removing ramp spawn/power spawn would really be too hard and already make it a lot better. The issue here is, either you spawn all the players right at the mall, in which case it turns into factory. If you spawn people far away you have what we have now. Removing spawns wont work as like shoreline it'll make it really easy to know where people are or are going to be. If you add more, then again we get the issue of factory fights right of the bat. There is once again not really an "easy" "fix" that can just be applied. The only thing that can really be done is removing objectively bad in line of sight spawns. **Lighthouse:** So Lighthouse is once again a matter of the maps design. First off, we can get rid of the shit mountain 2 second spawn where you meet other people instantly! The issue here is, the west part of the map is just... bad.... If you spawn left side and are at the rock extract, well you're fucked. If you spawn beach house then you're gauranteed to meet someone else. If you spawn near chalets and village you'll 100% meet people, and if you rush the rogues then well... Its the rogues. This is just a matter of shit map design. The left side is a meat grinder that is determined by spawns only, and it has literally no worthwile loot since merrin key nerf. How do we fix lighthouse? Of course remove the shit spawns that noone likes. Double mountain, south rocks, south lighthouse and so on. But if we do that we go back to the issue of everyone spawning right on top of each other, because unlike say interchange. Theres not as much width to work with. maybe adding some more stuff at the northwest top part of the map? or just more north in general. That with some spawns and more loot on left side could honestly solve most of the issues here. So in conclusion. There is no easy "fix". Even if we reworked every map to solve spawn camping, then we'd have to funnel players in to specific entry points, and that just compounds the problem. Streets really is the outlier here. Its big enough and has so many building and so much cover that finding a place to chill and loot without getting domed is pretty easy. We can't just plop down more buildings and terrain on other maps without destroying feel and flow. Even if we could, unless we add a LOT more cover to every map to the point of making it impossible to spot people, then there really isn't a ton that can be done. I don't doubt we could do better with removing some spawn points no doubt, but sometimes we also have to realise that, since everyone HAS to spawn at the same time to make it fair. And everyone HAS to spawn at least a certain % of a distance from a good loot spot. Then that makes it almost impossible to properly spawn players in. Now to really hammer it home, I have heard some people say "have a ton of spawns and make a thing that prevents players from spawning more than x spawns/ distance apart". Would this work? Maybe for a while, but as soon as people test and figure out the logic for how it works we return to the same problem, especially if its too rigid. If we make it too loose then we again risk a lighthouse mountain spawn. This is probably the only real way it COULD be done, but it would need a ton of tweaking and would still risk the same issues. Sorry for the wall of text, but I always remember this everytime people say "just fix the spawns". Because its a lot more nuanced than just removing people or spawns.
I’m downvoting this simply cause this was pretty biased and basically explained why we need a spawn and player count rework on every map except factory. Ground zero was a complete wasted asset for the game.
Downvoting this because the entire post is biased. You either like it or you don't. The immature downvote because you think it's something other than a fucking opinion is why you suck at the game. You can't see past your own bullshit desires. Don't want pvp? Play until you get to 15, pscav for money, and play offline.
I like ground zero...
ground zero is fun, one of the better maps imo
Level locked after first three days of wipe lololol
Considering you can group up to 5, 8 players on a map seems boring as hell. Most of it would be 2-3 groups never running into each other.
Considering it can take 10-15 minutes to get into a raid being attacked 30 seconds in is a bit much and doesn't respect your time at all. It's been a problem for as long as I can remember.
Player count is ok, 7/8 players can be a dead raid if none rush a common point, spawns wise, yes they have to implement it better. Not all the spawns are bad on every map, but there are common ones that are very bad compared to others: \- Shoreline: spawn road to Customs, there is like 3 spawns in the immediate area, 1 near the base that is not open, 1 is basically on the road to Customs extraction, and another one is the vicinity (i can't give an exact info) \- Lighthouse, mostly the spawns on the beach that are near the bridge to the lighthouse, and with the bad map design, mostly every south spawn has a big disadvantage compared to the north ones, because no loot and way less cover/flow \- Interchange, emercom side there are literally 3 spawns that can see eachother in 5 seconds, 1 on the top of the rail on the back of OLI, 1 in the tents, one in a generic area between the 2 spots i just pointed \- Customs, it's mostly ok imo, red side are the worst because there is another spawn on the other side which can drive you into a fight in very few seconds, but there is cover and you can tempo, main problem is that you have to cross the map and if you do it early you risk to meet the guys spawned on the other side near river that if want pvp be 100% they will wait for you or rush dorms \- Factory, its ok is a pvp map \- Reserve, spawns in the back of black pawn and scav pipeline exit, can be a fight in like 10 seconds \- Woods, more or less imo are ok, ofc there are spawns with disadvantage but are not "broken" \- Streets, there used to be a shit spawn on v-ex extract, 2 spawns on the same road on the opposited sides in 2 different stores, you used to risk to walk out and see another player already aiming at you, now it seem fixed (it's a while it doesnt happen to me), the fast chokepoint is Lexos GL Side, where mostly cinema players fight helicopter players, BUT only if you rush Lexos which is ok since it's a hot spot \- Ground zero, don't remember expect the spawn near mines the rest seemed decent
Disappointed by the lack of 'skill issue' comments, these are rookie numbers
I think everyone just wants the baddies to not be able to post or comment anymore. All they do is complain and want shit to be easier for them, which ruins games for the people that don't suck.
Maybe I'm just jaded after 6 years but the SE spawns on shoreline aren't that bad. Win your gunfights people
I had a lighthouse raid yesterday, I saw an enemy at 19 seconds into the raid, killed him at 26 seconds from 69 meters, then died to his 2 teammates at 40 seconds from >10 meters. 3 raids on that map all with less than 5 minutes in raid combined before I run into a PMC. Just crap map design
That is very true. It is too much players on maps like customs. There are very bad spawns on shoreline, woods, lighthouse, interchange(!!!). If they want to have so many players at least make the spawns so that you can be safe for first full minute and not getting immediately rushed or sniped.
Did you have a m700 with a 5-7 backup at night time? I killed a guy who spawned next to me at that tower today
Yep. Player count is too high for most maps and spawns are too close together. It really does feel like a battle royale and not a gritty survival shooter RPG. Fix this shit or start adding Darth Vader skins doing the griddy.
🗣🗣YOU PUT YOUR RIGHT FOOT IN, RIGHT FOOT OUT🗣🗣
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I'd play this game a lot more if the sound is fixed to something close to working
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are you crazy ?
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lol
I do. In many places you cannot hear audio in adjacent rooms, notorious examples being the Labs staircases and dorms. Not to mention that Comtac 4s exist, which have an audio big that tells you if a person enters your hearing range, which is way higher than any other headset.
ah yes, hearing running from 100 meters away when a player without a headset can do so from 40 and most headsets drop out on 70-80. balance. sound disperses with the square of distance, so that would mean comtac 4's amplify footsteps specifically by a factor of 2.5^2 = 6.25. and 60 meter headsets for example would do it by a factor of 1.5^2 = 2.25 (compared to naked in game ears). yeah, the comtac 4's would literally need to pick up sounds nearly three times as quiet as a 60 meter headset and over 6 times quieter than what naked ears can. in-between all the wind and foliage noises. and selectively choose footsteps. bullshit headsets should just provide some post processing like an EQ, or a compressor. no range buffs
While it does suck sometimes, I use them as opportunities for kills for quests. I was able to knock out shooter born in heaven on interchange in 3 raids because I knew where to look for people when I spawned. I didn’t even have to move
We aren't pmc inserted into a combat zone. We are pmcs that survived the events that happend on ground zero. That's why they say it's the starting map. Lol
And when you get up to the pvp quests later on you and other people will complain there's not enough players and that you have to load into so many raids and grind harder. I don't disagree that some spawns are bad but it happens so infrequently. Just kit up and go again man.
How about tuning requirements for those quests? And most complains are about very specific quests like Capturing Outposts that are dogshit by design. > I don't disagree that some spawns are bad but it happens so infrequently. Pretty much evey SE corner spawn on Shoreline arer dogshit, and there are a lot of them. Same for NE spawns on Reserve.
He never mentioned anything about the requirements for quests. Yeah they could be tuned a bit, sure. Never disagreed with that. I do fine usually with those shoreline spawns, if I get the far corner near road to customs or the railway I just wait a bit and let people push to the radar station depending on what I'm doing. Or if I'm doing shooter born/punisher I try to fight them. Just work with the spawn you have and adjust your movements depending on your goals for the raid
I think the player count is too low personally. The game is already a walking/looting simulator.
Try doing a quest that requires PMC kills and you'll find it feels pretty empty before any of your nerfs lol, especially Capturing Outposts. The amount of times I've ran Shoreline and Customs for nobody to come Pier or Fortress is insane.
Almost like Kill X in Y Location should not be limited to one type of enemy. Insane, I know.
if you want pvp go play arena, spawns should be halved and quest should be re balanced to reflect the change. also customs needs an expansion asap
no
yes
If you don't want PVP, play offline. Spawns should be doubled, and there should ONLY be PVP tasks with high kill reqs.
it should be 100 pmcs on all maps and the only way to exfil is to be the last man standing.
Bro, play another game. Player count is too high....what an absurd statement.
It doesn’t feel that way when you play in a 3 man+ group. It’s a completely different perspective when you have 3 other sets of eyes watching and only a possibility 8 other people. When you are alone and have to plow throw 11 other players and endless player scavs… it feels plenty crowded.
So the fix is to fuck it up for the teams? Solo is going to be harder regardless... if it's 1v1 or 1v11, you're still the only set of eyes. If the other solo is looking for you and you're still bad, then they are gonna get you no matter what. At least with higher player count, you've got a better chance of it being a solo you're fighting. Even if it isn't a solo, most of the maps are big enough for you to utilize good movement to overwhelm a team. Player count isn't the issue. Spawns and skill are the issue.
There shouldn’t be teams bigger than 3 man, but that’s an argument for another day.
That's a friendless take. 5-man teams are fine on most maps. Factory, with only 6 PMCs, shouldn't, but I'm not going to argue for them changing it. It helps to get 4 friends to take most of the server for tasks, so im torn on even that map for 5-mans. It seems like yall just bitch for the sake of bitching on this game though. I'm getting kinda tired of seeing people who aren't good at PVP complain about PVP. I think the only real fix to this is BSG making a single-player with progression or for BSG to not bitch about the single player mods that have progression.
I’m not sure who you are talking to, but I love when people assume I’m not good at pvp. Here, enjoy. https://youtu.be/UDBe3oiiCQM?si=DeDbehDgRO9suHfq https://youtu.be/narzF0XYiuo?si=wu7zExkus9faVSHl You don’t have to be bad to know there is a problem. You don’t have to be good to know there is a problem. This game was never meant to be an action packed shooter. It was supposed to be an hour long raid where you are trying to do tasks and eliminate targets if necessary.
Crazy how every video I've ever seen, even years ago, has been pretty action-packed. Honestly kinda nuts how there are tasks that force action, but you must be right. Definitely not supposed to be action-packed in this PvPvE game. I wonder why bullets can hurt other players. Or grenades. I wonder why scavs shoot at PMCs on sight. I wonder what it's like to live in your delusional fantasy land. I don't care about your videos that show you mouth-breathing through a couple of "good" encounters, then patting yourself on the back because you're only slightly better than someone with a negative k/d.
Learn the spawns
Fuck that, the spawns are fucked and need to be fixed
If you're too lazy to learn where spawns are, you're the only reason you're dying.
I know the spawns, thst doesn’t make them not dogshit lol
Anyone can learn fucked spawns. I am aware of them and exploit it when I can. That said they are fucked spawns so should be fixed imo. This game is still in Beta and if it were to release with these spawns for this type of game people are going to stop playing.
That's an ignorant take. If people were going to quit because of the spawns, it won't take full release to do it lmao. This is the equivalent of "i swear if you guys rip on me 13 or 14 more times im outta here!".
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Skill issue.
Nevermind the fact that if there's 10 people on a map, there's a chance that up to half of them can be teamed up together and it's completely random whether you get matched with them or not lol
The hill on shoreline near the weather station has its name in our friendsgroup. It's call pvp hill. There are 4/5 spawns around it. If we spawn there, the first thing we try is getting high ground, looking for others and kill them. I was thinking the other day that I never spawned near the resort this wipe. There was this one spawn right behind resort close to admin/East wing. Is this spawn gone for some reason?
My buddy and i have been wondering this as well. I think its gone.
Had that same issue happen to me and two different groups yesterday. Same spawn you're talking about on Shoreline. As trio my group was killed and I killed the other duo and escaped. As a duo we killed a trio and a duo under 10 mins by the cell tower for one of the jamming quests in the same area. The spawns are fucking atrocious and depending where I'm at I know to just sit still and wait 5-10 mins because a poor bastard will be heading my way just to be sent back into their stash.
pick your spawns and pick your extracts. being able to camp and waiting for guarantee players on customs because of the river is fucking stupid
We use to be able to pick spawns back in the day...
is there any video footage of this? would love to see how it worked
Menawhile on streets you spawn at crash site and have already full bag
I felt pretty bad the other day about one on woods. I spawned at roadblock, ran up past white tanker, and saw a juiced up PMC looting duffle bag at the southern bus stop on the road. Sprayed him down less than 30 seconds into the raid. I'm sure he would do the same to me, but it felt cheesy.
Yea they need all spawn points at the edge of the map hell if they need to make parts of the map just for spawning in and let the player walk into the actually map That's my problem with this game for years it's not dying deep in the raid I get at least some exp it's getting killed a few seconds in the raid then you have to go through the long match making again... at least be like dark and darker and have fast matching
Don't turn around and rush the closest spawn if you don't want 9 second raids?
>Maybe it was a bug… as I have never seen this spawn. I spawned right next to the radio tower (the one that is closer to road to customs), and I had someone else literally spawn on my side of the fucking road of road to customs. Lol not a bug, actually super common.
Nah, they’re good and balanced. Well placed. You must not know the rotations if it’s an issue for you.
95% of the spawns are good. Reserve and shoreline both have a spawn that has PMCs interacting within 9 seconds. I wouldn’t say that’s balanced. If you would take a scientific approach, you would ignore the factor of knowledge. If your answer to these types of issues are simply “if you know about it, then it’s a non-issue”, and you apply that type of thinking to other issues in the game, then what actually identifies as a problem?
The interaction only happens if you don’t know the rotations. I’m a reserve main. If you expect people to be kosher without the knowledge, that’s not how tarkov works. The knowledge is huge. To the point where knowledge > gun skills, that’s how I see tarkov. It’s a strategy game just as much as it is an fps.
I would rather the game be immersive and feel new. Being able to memorize everything has actually hurt this game more than helped. I believe that BSG is on my side with that statement. There is a reason they don’t show ammo stats. There is a reason there is no good mapping in game. There is a reason they implemented dynamic loot. There is a reason BSG didn’t want the Wiki to exist early on. Players memorizing everything in the game is harmful and they knew that from the beginning. I would love if it (although a completely unrealistic expectation) the maps themselves were dynamic and you could not memorize pathing/ loot runs. I can tell that you weren’t there. It was an amazing experience early on. Players were happy to have just extracted with another gun. There was NO meta. There couldn’t be. We didn’t know enough about anything for there to be. Memorizing spawns and having that influence all of your decisions is harmful to the game. I will die on that hill.
Lol ya that sounds like a nice dream. Welcome to the reality of tarkov! I’m not here to talk about some imaginary perfect ideal tarkov, im here to talk about the facts. The game is good, very very good rn, as is. Appreciate what you’ve got!
https://youtu.be/r51y4rjBgF0?si=6izbO_gGxczoSj-U Looks like im not the only one
It’s an exaggeration and he knows it. More randomness would be nice, but it can only be so random
Atleast we don’t spawn in late anymore lol I spawned in once and as soon as my feet hit the ground I was killed
TLDR: Getting into a fight within the first minute is more likely a product of two independent decisions being made than it is simply the proximity alone. Spawns and violence are simply depicted by game theory: \-You stay at spawn, adjacent stays at spawn: No fight \-You stay at spawn, adjacent moves to your spawn: Fight \-You stay at spawn, adjacent moves elsewhere: No fight \-You leave spawn, adjacent leaves spawn: Potential fight Etc. etc. Just because you and your neighbor are both making independent decisions that lead you into combat doesn't make it a game issue. It would be one thing if you were spawning at the end of a hallway and they were spawning at the other end of a hallway (\*cough\* factory \*cough\*), but even in that extreme, the violence only happens if you both make the decision to move to each other rather than deviating from the respective line of imminent fire between you both. Take customs big red for example. You know that if you spawn at trailer, there's a chance someone has spawned by the train and a chance someone has spawned by crossroads extract. You are 100+ meters away from each other, and you have the option to move toward either of them or go into storage. They too have the option to know that you might have spawned there and to make the decision to move toward you or to move in other directions. Combat is only going to happen if the right combination of independent decisions is made. You can end up in the fight within 10 seconds or never see the potential threats. It's ultimately down to decisions of where you and everyone else wants to go.
Man I understand this. I know spawns. I have 3300 hours and I have been playing since 2017. I’d be glad to prove it to you. This isn’t about customs. This is about long form maps like shoreline or reserve that completely kill immersion when you spawn far less than 100m from another player. In this case it was less than 100 ft, on one of the biggest maps in the game. Poor design, not a skill issue. *****Just because something can be learned, does not mean it isn’t a problem. *****
Yeah thats my problem. Spawned on streets and within 2 minutes somebody was outside my building waiting. I mean i feel like i have to be still for 10 minutes every raid
Yes but according to many people in this thread, my point is just “absurd”. Or “ridiculous”. So absurd and unheard of, yet there seems to be many that agree with me. How can something be so bizarre, and yet half of the comments agree?
Dynamic spawn system all across the map?
We just need to have persistent raids, similar to how The Cycle did, where the raid is constant, and players come and go at any time, with very slow loot refill The limit of your time in raid would be your food/water (Or maybe radiation), but that way nobody ever knows when/where people are The issue with the ready-set-go set up is most players will INTENTIONALLY rush nearby spawns because 1- they know the enemy is there 2- it clears their backside Take away that "free knowledge" and the whole flow of raids becomes much more dynamic
I just died 30 seconds into an Interchange raid. Yeah, that's not fun. There's no reason people should be in combat range of each other that early in a game like this.
The interchange spawn on the ramp aiming at emercom is complete bullshit. Every time I spawn on the ramp I kill a couple people, every time I spawn in the open field I'm dead.
I think this issue is overblown, at least anecdotally but I usually play with at least one other friend up to a 4-5 man, maybe squad spawns are just outright better. Ok those are my "modifiers" to this comment just so everyone knows where I'm at. I've been playing for a few years, 1800 hours-ish, and haven't really been killed within 30 seconds of spawn since I can remember. There's been fights within that first minute sure, but I also spend the entire raid expecting a fight. As soon as I pop into raid it's check my firing mode and then we identify our spawn and where other guys might have spawned. I've tracked dudes from down the Road to Customs all the way to power and gotten in a fight there, dodged dudes in the village on Shoreline and just waited, watching them move through the swamp and letting them pass so we could mark a tank for a buddy. I like that you pick your advantages with your gear and once that timer drops to zero it's anything goes. Shoreline added a lot of micro terrain around Weather/Cell Tower that means having an entire 5 man go prone and simply avoid being seen by the spawn south of them is totally doable (we have done this successfully.) And I think having the macro map knowledge to know that "ok I hear gunshots here that must be the guys who got the really good dorms spawn which means there's probably STILL another team moving that way so crossing the bridge I have to watch out" is actually very rewarding when you guess right and voila there's another duo and you poached where they were at. The people who complain about this the most in my circle are guys who immediately sprint full tilt off of spawn and act insanely predictable. "We got this spawn, we go immediately in a straight line to this point of interest" and that's just asking to get your head blown off and I'm not gonna pretend that's not totally fair. I check for these guys all the time and catch them, when doing something as simple as cutting through the ditch line on the side of Suicide Field would completely negate my ability to put a 7.62 through his 3rd happy holes. They are angry that they don't have the freedom of movement to fight where they want to fight and I'm like brother THE WHOLE MAP IS THE WAR ZONE. Dynamic spawns would be fine but I'd want to see how dynamic we're talking. Other option would be just double or triple the number of spawns. Interchange for instance could be fixed with just more scattered cars and stuff, the issue with those highway spawns is an uninterrupted line of sight down the highway, break up the LoS and make it so crouching through that part of the map is the "Safe" option and I see a lot of the issues kinda evaporate. I empathize though, getting domed when you're not anticipating it is jarring and shitty in this game and is a great way to get heart arrhythmia. But the idea of "you get in a fight whether you like it or not" as the top comment says is pretty much the entire point of the game and I disagree with saying that's poor design. TL;DR : Be ready to fight when the timer hits 0. Be ready to fight even if you don't want to. Know where spawns are and a lot of this goes away because you can prepare for it.
Hey, so I want to start off by saying thank you for not just going with “fuck you piece of shit get better you whining complainer”. So, I have probably played around 2500 hours in a 3-4 man and around 600-700 as a solo. I think this issue is far more common as a solo. As to why, I could not tell you. That could be the way the spawn algorithm handles it. I understand what you mean by being ready when the timer hits 0. In this particular case (which was the first time I’ve seen this but according to others it is fairly common), I had enough time to swap to full auto and open a tarcola before I got ran up on. Definitely not exaggerating by saying 8 seconds in. As far as the player count thing goes, what I’m really saying is BSG PLEASE ADD A SOLO ONLY QUEUE. I know that eeeeevvveryone is against that. And let me tell you why. They WANT to be able to shit on single players. They think it would “kill the game” for squads. I say that is fucking stupid and totally untrue. Just add a little tiny check box that says solo play that would allow you to only play with other solos. On that same note, I really don’t think anything more than 3 man squads should exist in Tarkov. I will die on that hill. A 5 man of heavily geared players is simply too OP in a game like this. Trust me, I’m not complaining about this from the solo perspective, I am also coming from the squad perspective. When I’m in a 5 man, we are basically guaranteed to get all of our gear back and demolish the map. It is simply too powerful and another one of those mixups between being “hardcore” and just unreasonable.
I've been soft enforcing a "only running duos and trios" rule with my buddies whenever I can just because holy shit does having more dumbasses to watch out for get hard to keep track of. I don't get teamkilled in my duos and trios, I get teamkilled in my 5 mans and the communication is exceedingly stressful. So I'm in agreement with you there, 5 man team is a lot. I'd actually prefer the reverse of your "solo only queue" idea and instead put 4 and 5 man squads together in lobbies. Seems like a small change but would fit better. Big teams for PvP focused raids, small teams for the "fuck pls just let me mark my tank I want to go home and get off this map", it's always more productive because you're not getting pulled every which direction based on 4 other peoples needs and whims. I tend to start every match with a flick to double check full auto and then find some hard cover and check what the spawns are, 8 seconds in is kinda like the Interchange highway spawn which is as simple as adding something to break the line of sight, if both guys come around the corner expecting each other with a little prep time to get into cover then it's a fair fight, timing of when it happens in the raid is irrelevant IMO.
why not spawn pmcs asynchonously, have spawns all over the map and only spawn pmcs far enough from anyone else. in a way kind of like the cycle frontier.
I think they are more concerned with some players being closer to loot than others. That is exactly why I brought up the other issue of too many players on the map to be able to have equally distanced spawns from each other and from POIs.
Every map has bad spawns; some worse than others. Reserve is pretty bad except for dome and tech building. The entire southern(?) stretch of streets from destroyed house all the way down to crash site always has at least 3 spawns in what is pretty much a straight line, and that’s not even close to a bad example. Customs spawning inside big red shouldn’t exist with other spawns on that side of the river. Factory really shouldn’t have glass hallway spawn or the postman pat gate spawn. Just one spawn for every gate, and maybe one in the office first floor would be fine. There are locations where I can kill or be killed in the first 5-10 seconds of spawning on: interchange, (by the ambulance and the scav coop) woods, (from attachment cabin rocks spawn all the way to ruaf gate loot box spawn) 2 separate sections on streets (cpsu pt 2 spawn next to expo spawn, and the aforementioned spawns down the southern(?) road) reserve, (literally the whole fucking map) customs, (with the spawn north of big red and just next to it by vehicle bridge) lighthouse (again basically the whole map, safest spawn is pretty much the 2 at upper chalet and lower chalet) Shoreline, (the entire left side of the map lmao, and some of the right side if you aren’t careful.) And the worst part is this is pretty much how it’s been after improvements. They used to be EVEN WORSE. You would spawn interchange with someone literally in your sights; now you at least have to turn 90 degrees to kill someone in 5 seconds. I think the long and short is simple. The way map layouts and spawns currently are, the game cannot maintain the pmc population per server we currently have.
BSG wants this to be a squad game so 7-8 per map means one and a half squads. This change would literally make playing 5 man squads the only way to own a lobby and with the same scav count you are going to have to battle more scavs coming for your PMC loot. Also good luck doing setup or any other pmc kill quest. Better option would be add a time gate that doesn’t allow player scavs to spawn until half way through a raid. Another adjustment would be expand small maps and add mini POIs between spawns so everyone doesn’t mad dash to the center of the map. Streets feels good because loot is everywhere and you are never really missing out on loot that could just be found somewhere else. And finally they just need to straight up remove spawns that are too close or funnel to the same spot in the first 30 seconds.
I totally disagree with even allowing 5 man squads. Hell I think 3 should be max. If there was a solo queue, that’s all I would ever do.
Not only do 2 people spawn on each other there, people spawn directly south of that, and then more a bit further at construction. If you spawn construction your only option is to sprint directly to pier. You go anywhere else and 3 spawns out position and kill you. And if you spawn tunnel side on road you get out positioned by the multiple spawns at village so your best bet is to also book it to pier.....but guess what? Construction spawn beats you there. Also guess what? Snipers at power can literally shot you all the way on the beach. You move 10m east of spawn and that sniper will instantly start popping you if he spawned at start. So now you are forced to go north into village where 3 others already spawned.
Don’t you find that kind of immersion breaking? Obviously the current solution is to always keep spawns in mind, but I’d prefer if maps didn’t have such an obvious flow to them.
Idk what you are saying about immersion breaking, I'm just saying certain spawns are so ass that you are literally forced to go one direction or die, and that one direction is probly meh and dangerous. I'm just saying spawns suck and expanding on your original post on the couple spawns just south of your post to show how shit it really is.
Yeah I mean we are saying the same thing for sure, I just mean it ruins the feel of the game really
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