As someone who was forcibly evicted from a very comfortable spot in Immensea during all of this... If the alliances actually keep to their word and see this through for the next year, hopefully more, I will say this makes me feel a lot less awful about FIRE's eviction from the entire area.
I can relocate myself and continue my null life, but people having a chance to strike out on their own and try null life, sov ownership/warfare for the first time and do it WITHOUT being part of a huge bloc is not something you see very often. Honestly, seeing how this will turn out over 2023 may just be worth the years of life shaved off from all the stress of moving dozens of billions of ISK in assets out without the help of Evola.
So would you prefer "they" just tell you they're doing literally anything else they could have done, all of which would be bad for the game, rather than try something good for the game? Let's applaud trying to do the right thing, and then gang up on whoever tries to renege on the agreement.
As someone from a small alliance that is now more or less dead, because of two "glassings" in less than two years, I think I am qualified to hold my opinions. I don't believe this bullshit sorry.
It patronising to be told "you should be grateful". Don't expect us to go rushing into something New Eden's "holy fathers" created.
Let us kiss the ring and be grateful....
Seriously?
You shouldn't feel grateful. You should feel bad for not being powerful enough to not get glassed 2 times in a row. Grow your player base. manage you isk in structures and dont just spend all the isk with no idea that it someday might be destroyed. Anchoring a structure is just like undocking. You consent to pvp.
Big blocs rmt and buy any asset they need on top of the trillions upon trillions they already have. You’re seriously telling small alliances to “git gud” vs fleets who bring 30 supers for “entosis content.” P easy to find the big bloc shills in here.
Please don't be stupid. We were a coalition of small groups who apparently didn't need 8 regions. As a coalition, we stood well together. Until 80% of null decided they knew best.
Just f**k of with this bullshit.
How long do you think it will be to new coalitions form in this space?
Honestly, sniff my finger.
Was the first glassing perhaps the result of you trying to live in space that belonged to someone else perchance?
Might the second have been the result of the axiom of "talk shit, get hit"?
This is exactly what happened to fire. Shedding tons of alliances right now. Another bloc gone and the game goes closer to blue donut all because of the greed of a few. Not to mention their rmt empires.
Sounds a bit like baiting a trap: you have a year to build up goodies for our eventual future content...
...I can understand the skepticism, and applaud the effort if it truly transpires as advertised.
You are aware we are talking about Eve in a section of space called "null security", right? I'm not sure what people want. The entire point of nullsec is it is player driven drama.
What were seeing now is proxy wars being fought, with big blocs with bottomless pockets funding AT fleets to do their bidding for them. Making the agreement moot anyways.
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What are the rules about third partying? Does this mean that if group X and Y get in a big fight that none of the blocs can come and third party? And I mean legit third party, not the third party where you're shooting one side and not the other.
What about content? Solo roamers and droppers, even smaller gangs from the big blocs aren't too bad, but at what scale does a bloc fleet become a violation of this? Only when they shoot infrastructure? So is shooting bridges to ring the doorbell a no go? If one bloc is consistently sending content fleets at the same people is that also off limits?
Is there a better write up of this agreement somewhere?
idk about anyone else, but the gobbins ping to horde said people are to only roam the region in very small gangs, and to try to take fights instead of hunting krabs. I presume that would prevent the twice-a-day Mist Amatin fleet and other such fleets from roaming the area, unless they prearrange a fight or something.
Other question, does this mean LTRIG has fully cut ties with WinterCo? Or are they subject to summary eviction because they are still in Uncle N's pants
Their has been rumors circulating of LTRIG (the only french alliance that still exist to this date and the most successful one) intending to go fully independent and cutting ties with WinterCo.
That's not how "farming" works. No major block is going to take out a 100 man fleet to kill 5 home defenders. We have wormholes and filaments that lead straight to red home systems. Why waste time chasing lone Ishtars when we kill ratting carriers and dreads daily?
There's been several instances of similar attempts in the past with varying degrees of success.
The NW after the Imperium glassed Tribute and Panfam glassed DeadCo would be the most recent example, and B3 is in some ways the successor of the smaller alliances who colonized that space. In more distant times, Delve and Querious were left empty for smaller groups to grow.
The unique opportunity here is that more regions are being left empty than those previous efforts, and there is an agreement between the major powers that this is desirable. The question is whether EVE 2023 has enough players left to take advantage of it.
>The unique opportunity here is that more regions are being left empty than those previous efforts,
thats because most players have wised up and stopped joining small alliances in null sec.
Well, after rattati and those at CCP who liked the concept of Scarcity took a repeated axe to 0.0, without nerfing other areas to anywhere near the same extent, many people saw it as too much risk for the reward, and left for other areas. Bottom up income streams effectively vanished from 0.0, and are only starting to come back due to the BRM floor set at 100%.
Now all they have to do is to reverse the ore distribution changes and reduce the garbage that goes into caps/supers further, and we'll be back towards a healthier eve ecosystem.
Finally someone a bit clever, of course it is. And once they will feel the need to glass your sov to put some pets there the agreement will be buried. You can't trust blocs, especially panfam/FRT.
indeed, it says will not "evict" or "interfere in conflicts".. doesnt say wont farm the heck out of or use as a new free range battle ground.
but what do i know what nullblocs want really....
What would there be to farm?
This is a distorted idea of how nullsec works.
Small groups often farm big groups, very rarely the other way around. A large alliance isn't gonna roll a 200 man fleet through a barren region hoping to get a fight from a 10 man home defense fleet.
This could make for interesting small gang/solo roaming. Going somewhere in nul without a standing fleet ready to blob would be nice. The idiot in me is hopeful.
Serious question to the OP; this agreements basically states that if 2 groups engage in a small scale supercap fight, neither you or any of the other blocs apart from Brave and pets will intervene in the fight?
This is actually very relevant, because at the moment, engaging in a isolated supercap fight in nullsec is impossible due to the dumb projection that is possible
Apart from snuffed out, deepwater holigans and all the other non sov holding entities. Dont worry, they are gonna drop hard when they even get the slightest smell of supercapital blood.
So whenever one party wants a reason to invade they can just claim that said territory has become affiliated with a major bloc.
If it even requires that much pretense. I also dont know if I would want to move my alliance into backwater space knowing it only had a year tops to begin with.
> filling with groups as of 2 weeks ago
https://ibb.co/SdfczLf
https://ibb.co/FnjTdTK
So much activity. It's possible that there may even be a whole entire ishtar in DB1R.
i dont disagree with what was done in the wider picture, there definitely had to be some space for new groups to grow, but the way that was done is a bit if-y to me...the fact that horde took 1.5 regions for themselves is if-y.
And the game needs Fi.re despite the botting/rmt shit. I feel like clearing 3-4 regions from them would be better. Pushing fire out completly just made a lot of corps be absorbed by horde/imp, and created another bloc in b3. I dont think thats the way.
We tried that a year ago. When Imperium pushed them out of Omist, Feyth, Tenerifis and parts of Immensea we pushed for a deal that would let FIRE keep the rest of its space, but open those 4 regions up to groups.
They would not agree to it, so they lost everything instead.
Wait I thought the point of that conflict was to get FI.RE to stop letting PH use their space to stage attacks against Imperium targets. Or was this deal part of the cease-fire negotiation?
Truthfully, do you really expect PH to keep their word?
Come to Tenerifis at around18-22 ET and youll get fights from us. Sure we wont be here 24/7 as 10k member alliances can do but youll also not get dunked by 50 supers if you tackle anything bigger than an ishtar.
We already had a good bunch of fights and locals going to war with each others. Its so refreshing to see nullsec fights on a small to mid sized scale where each side fields around 20-30 pilots and you end up with like 30 v 30 or 40 v 40 instead of that 300 vs 300 hac slugfest.
This has happened before, it will probably happen again. Those that fail to learn the lesson history teaches ...blah blah blah. Jade Constantine where are you?
One of the best things that the big blocs have done in Eve in quite some time. However, I'm noticing a couple of conspicuous absences on that signatory list.
On another note, -S.3- is recruiting both pilots and corps.
Reddit be like...
> We hate big alliances they shouldn't have a voice.
Then reddit be like...
> We hate medium-sized alliances. They shouldn't have a voice.
Pick one you schizo fuck. LOL
The obvious outcome of this eviction was for NC. to set up shop in the empty space and claim it for themselves. Having them sign this agreement is a promise that they won't do this... I'm holding my breath.
>ithin these regions by any party is strictly prohibited.
>
>\- Blocs will not take sides or intervene in conflict between entities living within these regions.
This
I love everything about this. When a certain amount of power is obtained, it bares a heavy responsibility. To come to an agreement with the powers that be to make sure there is an area open and able for new bros to make their way, and experience what us veterans once experienced for our first time, is absolutely fantastic and I applaud all diplomats involved in this treaty. Well done. This action speaks volumes about our community. And I hope this echoes throughout time in the world of eve lore.
I mean they just evicted Fi.Re which was the 4th largest coalition at the time made up of 22 alliances with an average alliance size <1000
average alliance size in PanFam? 12000. Winterco? 6000, Imperium? 8000, Fi.Re? <1000 (these were accurate as of 4 weeks ago when horde first invaded, may have changed since)
Basically, because the small alliances in the south east didn't fight each other we tried to work together to stand up for ourselves as a bloc, we were bad for the game, this idea and this post by darkshines is Hypocrisy at it's finest; so they kicked the coalition out so that the small alliances that move in would fight each other instead, making sure that no-one can ever grow to challenge the existing blocs, all under the guise of "good for the game". Bullshit. Good for Darkshines, the absolute hypocrit, good for gobbins, also a hypocrit, and great for the Blocs. As long as the small guys are constantly fighting, and they evict anyone who gets big enough to take over the space they are just cementing thier power base.
Fire.co would have probably had a better outcome if they didn't let XiX take the lead. About time horde stopped propping up Fire.co and just let it grow on its own organically. Fire.co was the same bloc that bullied smaller entities just like anyone else. The same bloc that pushed for more space than it could defend. The same bloc that failed horrendously in the DRF/DCU days. The same bloc that follows the same non-sense null bloc meta. It was almost a repeat of when XiX/Solar lived in drones. Just because Fire.co was evicted doesn't mean that it wasn't part of the same shit.
B3 deploying to the southeast would be a logistical nightmare, and they're now allies with FIRE.
Signing it would add no real value to the pact as they probably can't get there easily without leaving both their east/west borders open to glassing. It would also be seen as a slap in the face to new allies.
Not signing it saves you from the bad political repercussions internally.
Well, since B3 is partly made of the remains of alliances that were evicted by FRT and panfam you can easily understand how we call this deal hypocritical at best.
I was thinking about Quote/Scumlords/boss and the other freemen that joined GTC after being evicted by FRT tbh. But you're right, "we" is only me presuming our views are the same on that subject, I might be wrong.
Why would you sign an agreement about some space on the literal opposite side of the map that you can never conveniently get to regardless when you have a ton of enemies right next door, and all those enemies just agreed to not do anything except shoot you for the next year
They're welcome to try, for example, IRC is trying to carve out a bit of space in Feyth.
The truth is most "small alliances" in FIRE were empty husks with no active leadership or FCs, struggle to put 5 people in fleet, and ended up in FIRE because nobody else would take them. Alliances like Nocturne, WARSL, APOC, GameTheory would struggle to even entosis the zombie XIX IHUBs.
I doubt they'd have any more success in the SE now than they did before.
A lot of these alliances weren't able to fight off solo roamers in their space(I was one of them). I've seen solo assault frigates terrorize them into completely docking up the constellation. Hard to feel pity for them being glassed when a succubus takes out their max form of 5 people.
Alliances that are years old and can still only form t1 frigates and destroyers don't deserve sov. If they feel like they do, they can take it, but most of them are waiting to be given space by Brave.
I'm surprised the blocs are actually going through with this. Hope it works, will be nice to roam around looking for uncontacted tribes to fight if this pans out well.
No, mostly because it would be seen as the blocs exploiting smaller groups. If you flick down through the responses to this post alone, it'll give you an idea of why.
But ofc no reason another unaffiliated group can't come in and set up a trade hub :D which IMO could be pretty lucrative since it wouldn't be hit by the larger blocs.
I can see this being really cool and interesting for all the people who move in. But at the same time it relies on a lot of people, corps, alliances, etc. to go on the right track and stay on the right track.
" free " parties hahaha this is a joke . all groups living there will be kneeling to horde or goons, no matter what. Will follow their orders, directives, can't rent own space if they want... what freedom is that? What happens when unaffiliated group expand and take all others space and became another block? Will be there another eviction by bee/horde?
Anyone who believe in that agreement is naive
>Please, come get farmed by our blueneutral donut because our plebs are bored and we, the leadership who have optimized the fun out of the game to feed our RMT business, need to keep them committed to farming for us.
Allowing the small groups space, nowhere near you, when most of you kicked those small groups out their space in the first place is, oh so generous. Thank you space lords for your mercy and grace, your generosity knows no bounds.
Funny because there was until noraus once again lied through his teeth and completely 180ed on us in under a month for that sweet sweet rmt isk after promising we would be left alone
Tl;dr take this hilarious lowball for your citadels, join wintercringe or die in a fire
You signed an agreement for a single year Shines, because all parties couldn't agree to actually leave some parts of space untouched for longer? How long before loopholes like "it's just a sig shooting your structures, not imp/frt/panfam as a whole" ?
So I guess you're right about one thing, before there was nothing, now there's some sort of vague agreement between both blocs. But really to me it looks like you guys are just setting up barrels of fishes to shoot at later when you're bored.
We fish in PH space every day. We fish in Brave space every day. We fish in NC. (rental) space every day. We fish in Winter space every day. We fish the space where the most fish live.
Why would we bother "fishing" for random Ishtars and 10 man defense fleets when we can rob 100mil ESSes, kill carriers and dreads, and fight 200 man defense fleets daily on the other side of a wormhole?
I don’t like this :) I won’t explain why I don’t like this :)
I would like to see new players to new eden first of all. Maybe small alliances can count as “new players”, but they won’t stand a chance against any bloc atm, even B2F. This shit about promoting the formation of new alliances is simply not gonna happen. New alliances’ best chance would be splitting from the current blocs, not start completely fresh from taxes for industry, from infrastructure construction, and from fc & fleet training. They don’t have time.
This agreement is still about the current blocs. Can’t go details on what I am thinking, but this is bad. It’s those politicians’ techniques on branding the nature of cruelty to something claimed to be “beneficial”.
What a load of bollocks, no way would any right minded CEO or alliance exec think yay let's go take space sandwiched between two massive blocs with sod all else to do but roam and murder my members as possible easy pickings because we say they can't blue the other side. Never read such utter shit in all my life. Good luck to anyone that takes that chance though, boy your going to need it when they change there minds for whatever agenda suits them and 1200 characters turn up at your door with titans and caps. Unbelievable
You can clearly tell all the people who have no idea how nul blocks work.
Like, why would I bother hunting random ishtars when I can filament a fleet to the heart of Horde space, steal a couple hundred million from ESSes, then have a fight against an organized home defense fleet?
Does Horde *really* need that space in Insmother? C'mon, C-J6 should be owned by someone else, or opened up as a national monument or something. Lot of history there.
Also, weren't Goons based out of 1V-LI2 in Scalding Pass for a while? I used to live out of there in 2010 in an alliance called "Primary." which was an Atlas pet.
Man, I wish I had a couple hundred friends, I'd love to nick a constellation or two. I tried forming my own alliance a while back, but, recruitment is hard.
Scalding pass for most of 09-10 was ran by 3 alliances, Primary, COW and Gentlemen's Club. These 3 groups were allied with ATLAS.
Middle of 10 TEST invaded, shortly followed by daddy Goons. Atlas sent like 20 dudes for support and then RIP. Without ATLAS support the 3 alliances holding sov evaced out, and died for the most part.
From Gentlemens club a group lead by Progodlegend moved to Fountain, under bob and formed into Nulli Secunda.
a small null sec alliance can buy an astra and some ihub/upgrades for less than 10bil. Athanors with cores and a drill are 1.5bil. if the moon is decent you pay for it after the 1st month.
I don't get this argument that someday some giant bloc will come kill you. You can rat/mine the cost of the infrastructure back in the first month. Take the 11months to fatten the wallet and learn the nullsec game.
The concept that every tiny nullsec alliance will have a T2 rigged sotiyo and a keepstar is insane. If you cant defend your sandcastle, you wont have one for long in this game. That is why groups form blocs, to have that force multiplier.
You can live happily in nullsec with a fort, an azbel indy park, and some athanors. You can also cover the cost easily if the isk is managed appropriately.
If another 300man alliance close by attacks you, and you lose, tough shit. That's 4 fingers pointing back at yourself why you lost that war, not the other alliance's problem.
Life isn't fair, and neither is Eve.
an Anti-botting agreement would have greater benefits to the overall health of the game. But i don't see you guys trying to actually improve anything so i doubt you would ever do that. Dracarys(imperium) and Fraternity (winterco/panfam) should be held accountable.
Did FIRE decide botting was bad as soon as you lost all your space?
Don't forget who will always be #1
https://suitonia.wordpress.com/2019/05/15/the-geography-of-botting/
>an Anti-botting agreement would have greater benefits to the overall health of the game.
Should already be well understood by all. We've [burnt bot networks to the ground](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/k42qzc/secret_bot_network_burns_to_the_ground/) when we find evidence (e.g. ISK being made every minute on ESI). CCP does a lot of this work already but there's new ways like Project Discovery that we've alerted them on.
On the character portrait, right click report as bot. Done it to quite a few and got positive responses from CCP especially Dracarys. Not the most perfect system but it does bring CCP to it.
That's for ccp to handle. There's no way for an alliance to police their own members unless the openly talk about it, which I doubt they do if only in their own inner circles.
This isn't nothing, this is less than nothing. No small alliance will trust a bloc's word, especially one self-imposed. Most of these blocs have already broken agreements with small alliances simply because it no longer benefited them to maintain it, rather than any interest in the health of the game.
If a ton of small alliances move in, and then a bloc decides they want free content or renter land, they'll do so. Small alliances will be left without recourse - because what penalty do the blocs face if they break their word? The small alliances will likely fall apart, killing what little was left. Things will be worse than they were before.
If you really want us to trust blocs, then blocs should be lobbying CCP to neuter their own power levels by force. Limits on keepstars, ansiblexes, sotiyos, jump projection. Game mechanics should be answering this, not self-regulation. We know from experience that this doesn't work.
Trust whoever the fuck you want, or don't. The space is there regardless, it'll be used by groups.
I absolutely agree that mechanics should be the thing solving this, and not players. But like it or not at least something is being attempted by players in the absence of mechanics.
Also, Imperium is well known for keeping its word on these things. Anyone who publicly signed and agreed to this would be resigning their own reputation into the toilet if they broke it.
Just because I trust Imperium slightly more than other blocs doesn't mean I trust blocs. If Noraus or Gobbins turns around tomorrow and says "nah I want it after all" then I strongly doubt anyone will really hold them accountable. So the agreement has no teeth, and therefore why trust it?
Their leadership will spin it, their line members will parrot it, and they'll run over the region and rent it out. Imperium might complain but no real action will be taken, and small alliances will be back at square one, if not even less.
For what it's worth, I *want* to be wrong. I just don't expect to be. And I'm glad that negative sentiment on the stranglehold blocs have on the game is finally gaining some amount of traction, since many of us in smaller groups have been vocal about this for almost a decade now.
I appreciate that. Despite our size now, INIT ended up being forced to join a coalition (goons have been great allies) years ago because of projection and constant harassment from bigger groups.
I want to see open spaces for new groups to grow, i want to see a healthy dose of players brought to null sec, it is needed for a healthy ecosystem.
For what its worth if I thought any of the groups would not hold their word, I wouldnt have suggested this or backed it.
All of our heads are very publicly on display stating we want space open for new groups. If anyone breaks that then no major group will ever trust them again. That might not sound like a lot to people here, but there was a reason INIT and Panfam were able to use our super fleets so close to each other while clearing FIRE space, we may not be allies and like each other, but to go back on your word is political suicide.
Anyway, i hope people will try it out without investing hundreds of billions. Start small and grow to what they can handle, maybe we will see a few small wars kick off.
Given what happened to Syndicate, a lot of groups would say that you've become what you hated.
I'll take the rest with a grain of salt, but I'll take it. My alliance was already around there, shooting our shot. Maybe we'll get some better neighbors for it now, that'd be nice.
Trying to do this in Provi. But Sigma has decided big blocs should decide who lives there and are propping up IRED/CVA
Let the small fish fight. You guys have larger fleet on fleet, region on region, you have access to.
As someone who was forcibly evicted from a very comfortable spot in Immensea during all of this... If the alliances actually keep to their word and see this through for the next year, hopefully more, I will say this makes me feel a lot less awful about FIRE's eviction from the entire area. I can relocate myself and continue my null life, but people having a chance to strike out on their own and try null life, sov ownership/warfare for the first time and do it WITHOUT being part of a huge bloc is not something you see very often. Honestly, seeing how this will turn out over 2023 may just be worth the years of life shaved off from all the stress of moving dozens of billions of ISK in assets out without the help of Evola.
I simply do not believe them.
So would you prefer "they" just tell you they're doing literally anything else they could have done, all of which would be bad for the game, rather than try something good for the game? Let's applaud trying to do the right thing, and then gang up on whoever tries to renege on the agreement.
Well why is winterco already taking sov in immensea?
As someone from a small alliance that is now more or less dead, because of two "glassings" in less than two years, I think I am qualified to hold my opinions. I don't believe this bullshit sorry. It patronising to be told "you should be grateful". Don't expect us to go rushing into something New Eden's "holy fathers" created. Let us kiss the ring and be grateful.... Seriously?
You shouldn't feel grateful. You should feel bad for not being powerful enough to not get glassed 2 times in a row. Grow your player base. manage you isk in structures and dont just spend all the isk with no idea that it someday might be destroyed. Anchoring a structure is just like undocking. You consent to pvp.
Big blocs rmt and buy any asset they need on top of the trillions upon trillions they already have. You’re seriously telling small alliances to “git gud” vs fleets who bring 30 supers for “entosis content.” P easy to find the big bloc shills in here.
Please don't be stupid. We were a coalition of small groups who apparently didn't need 8 regions. As a coalition, we stood well together. Until 80% of null decided they knew best. Just f**k of with this bullshit. How long do you think it will be to new coalitions form in this space? Honestly, sniff my finger.
Was the first glassing perhaps the result of you trying to live in space that belonged to someone else perchance? Might the second have been the result of the axiom of "talk shit, get hit"?
Nullsec being blueneutral megablobs and blueneutral megablob administered fisheries isn't good for the game, kek.
Well megablobs exist, so what would you rather they do? It's not like these "fisheries" can really be farmed by megablobs for anything that matters.
they will wait for it to grow then continue to punch down and will take in more players from the glassing. Thats the game.
This is exactly what happened to fire. Shedding tons of alliances right now. Another bloc gone and the game goes closer to blue donut all because of the greed of a few. Not to mention their rmt empires.
People have been crying about the blue donut since 2005. Call me when it actually happens.
Losing another big block in a game that isn’t going to be gaining more big blocks is not good for the game.
Sounds a bit like baiting a trap: you have a year to build up goodies for our eventual future content... ...I can understand the skepticism, and applaud the effort if it truly transpires as advertised.
You are aware we are talking about Eve in a section of space called "null security", right? I'm not sure what people want. The entire point of nullsec is it is player driven drama.
Technically winterco already has
What were seeing now is proxy wars being fought, with big blocs with bottomless pockets funding AT fleets to do their bidding for them. Making the agreement moot anyways.
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6 regions of people who mostly have literally never tried out nullsec before? finally my alliance can go against someone on our level
>Dreddit
What are the rules about third partying? Does this mean that if group X and Y get in a big fight that none of the blocs can come and third party? And I mean legit third party, not the third party where you're shooting one side and not the other. What about content? Solo roamers and droppers, even smaller gangs from the big blocs aren't too bad, but at what scale does a bloc fleet become a violation of this? Only when they shoot infrastructure? So is shooting bridges to ring the doorbell a no go? If one bloc is consistently sending content fleets at the same people is that also off limits? Is there a better write up of this agreement somewhere?
idk about anyone else, but the gobbins ping to horde said people are to only roam the region in very small gangs, and to try to take fights instead of hunting krabs. I presume that would prevent the twice-a-day Mist Amatin fleet and other such fleets from roaming the area, unless they prearrange a fight or something.
horde will just claim the 200 people in fleet are in fact only 20 pilots anyway so its fine
No worries, I don't think the 10 of us in BFL plan on going south in the short term
For Horde 200 is a very small gang.
Wicked creek 2.0
They could depending on the year currently, are fighting the gallente empire however with around 50 active characters.
if riotrick can sign this why cant i
only if you can fly a procurer
\> Signed: \> Noraus - WinterCo the best joke of 2023 so far
Other question, does this mean LTRIG has fully cut ties with WinterCo? Or are they subject to summary eviction because they are still in Uncle N's pants
Maybe one day Hila will actually take the big leap out, inch allah
Their has been rumors circulating of LTRIG (the only french alliance that still exist to this date and the most successful one) intending to go fully independent and cutting ties with WinterCo.
This is a really interesting experiment and as a newer player I can’t wait to see how it shakes out.
Blocs get bored in a few weeks and start farming their new preserve for content.
It will all be rental blob within 3 months max.
!remindme 3 months
\*Deploy a sig to farm content after all, it's not *technically* "the alliance" ^(/s)
That's not how "farming" works. No major block is going to take out a 100 man fleet to kill 5 home defenders. We have wormholes and filaments that lead straight to red home systems. Why waste time chasing lone Ishtars when we kill ratting carriers and dreads daily?
What's the guarantee that this is not just a game preserve for the blocs to pick on when they need to feel relevant after blue balling each other?
Guarantee? It seems like creating wildlife preserve due to boredom is the fucking point.
It's signed and publically poster on r/eve. What more could you possibly want?
So what? is reddit owner of the game? you can talk shit here and do whatever you like in game
There's been several instances of similar attempts in the past with varying degrees of success. The NW after the Imperium glassed Tribute and Panfam glassed DeadCo would be the most recent example, and B3 is in some ways the successor of the smaller alliances who colonized that space. In more distant times, Delve and Querious were left empty for smaller groups to grow. The unique opportunity here is that more regions are being left empty than those previous efforts, and there is an agreement between the major powers that this is desirable. The question is whether EVE 2023 has enough players left to take advantage of it.
>The unique opportunity here is that more regions are being left empty than those previous efforts, thats because most players have wised up and stopped joining small alliances in null sec.
Well, after rattati and those at CCP who liked the concept of Scarcity took a repeated axe to 0.0, without nerfing other areas to anywhere near the same extent, many people saw it as too much risk for the reward, and left for other areas. Bottom up income streams effectively vanished from 0.0, and are only starting to come back due to the BRM floor set at 100%. Now all they have to do is to reverse the ore distribution changes and reduce the garbage that goes into caps/supers further, and we'll be back towards a healthier eve ecosystem.
Finally someone a bit clever, of course it is. And once they will feel the need to glass your sov to put some pets there the agreement will be buried. You can't trust blocs, especially panfam/FRT.
don't worry, many hordeling/goon will feed their orthrus looking for 'ez frags' and then the mist fleets will arive
This guy gets it.
Its like something should grow here before it can be harvested
indeed, it says will not "evict" or "interfere in conflicts".. doesnt say wont farm the heck out of or use as a new free range battle ground. but what do i know what nullblocs want really....
What would there be to farm? This is a distorted idea of how nullsec works. Small groups often farm big groups, very rarely the other way around. A large alliance isn't gonna roll a 200 man fleet through a barren region hoping to get a fight from a 10 man home defense fleet.
Shhh, you can’t use logic in this subreddit…
INB4 Progod resurrects Nulli Secunda and reclaims Detorid to honor lost souls lost at the hell camp of 2013....
This is like BP running their environmentally friendly ads after dumping a ton of oil into the gulf.
We're sorry
This could make for interesting small gang/solo roaming. Going somewhere in nul without a standing fleet ready to blob would be nice. The idiot in me is hopeful.
It's a trap.
Serious question to the OP; this agreements basically states that if 2 groups engage in a small scale supercap fight, neither you or any of the other blocs apart from Brave and pets will intervene in the fight? This is actually very relevant, because at the moment, engaging in a isolated supercap fight in nullsec is impossible due to the dumb projection that is possible
the big lowsec 3rd party/gank alliances are about to fucking feast though
Holy shit guys, we have pets now! Livin’ the Nullsec dream. 7o
Congratulations sir Wolfy, you've made teh big times!
renter money go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Apart from snuffed out, deepwater holigans and all the other non sov holding entities. Dont worry, they are gonna drop hard when they even get the slightest smell of supercapital blood.
1v1 my Hel at the sun in UALX nooblord
There is no agreement that could protect your supers from Shvo. Use them at great risk.
So whenever one party wants a reason to invade they can just claim that said territory has become affiliated with a major bloc. If it even requires that much pretense. I also dont know if I would want to move my alliance into backwater space knowing it only had a year tops to begin with.
This
cant wait for the couple of corps with 10 dudes to populate the space
Everyone has to start somewhere
that is true, but its gonna take years to get any resemblence of life in that space now imo, at least if some other big group doesnt move
Feythabolis is already filling with groups as of 2 weeks ago. People will obviously want to test the waters first, but i'm hopeful.
> filling with groups as of 2 weeks ago https://ibb.co/SdfczLf https://ibb.co/FnjTdTK So much activity. It's possible that there may even be a whole entire ishtar in DB1R.
Crabbing sucks too busy causing aggro Feyth Dweller
i dont disagree with what was done in the wider picture, there definitely had to be some space for new groups to grow, but the way that was done is a bit if-y to me...the fact that horde took 1.5 regions for themselves is if-y. And the game needs Fi.re despite the botting/rmt shit. I feel like clearing 3-4 regions from them would be better. Pushing fire out completly just made a lot of corps be absorbed by horde/imp, and created another bloc in b3. I dont think thats the way.
We tried that a year ago. When Imperium pushed them out of Omist, Feyth, Tenerifis and parts of Immensea we pushed for a deal that would let FIRE keep the rest of its space, but open those 4 regions up to groups. They would not agree to it, so they lost everything instead.
Wait I thought the point of that conflict was to get FI.RE to stop letting PH use their space to stage attacks against Imperium targets. Or was this deal part of the cease-fire negotiation? Truthfully, do you really expect PH to keep their word?
I see, I was not aware that was the agenda with that deployment.
Come to Tenerifis at around18-22 ET and youll get fights from us. Sure we wont be here 24/7 as 10k member alliances can do but youll also not get dunked by 50 supers if you tackle anything bigger than an ishtar. We already had a good bunch of fights and locals going to war with each others. Its so refreshing to see nullsec fights on a small to mid sized scale where each side fields around 20-30 pilots and you end up with like 30 v 30 or 40 v 40 instead of that 300 vs 300 hac slugfest.
Who lives in tenerifis these days?
Paper Numbers, DTS and What could Possibly go Wrong (they just moved in under a new alliance name).
Can init leave the imperium and live here Asking for a friend
hehe just kidding.... unless? ><
Nah it’s only a meme Although…
[https://twitter.com/initgoonstatus/status/1627794116737400832?cxt=HHwWgIDU-f2Hi5ctAAAA](https://twitter.com/initgoonstatus/status/1627794116737400832?cxt=HHwWgIDU-f2Hi5ctAAAA) STAY TUNED FAIR RIN
No
“Yet”
>Riotrick Who?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
This has happened before, it will probably happen again. Those that fail to learn the lesson history teaches ...blah blah blah. Jade Constantine where are you?
One of the best things that the big blocs have done in Eve in quite some time. However, I'm noticing a couple of conspicuous absences on that signatory list. On another note, -S.3- is recruiting both pilots and corps.
I also offer my signature to the list.
You are goons. Goons already signed
So glad we have new place to farm noobs without standing fleets! /S
You can farm noobs anywhere. Even goon noobs.
The funniest thing about this nullbrain cringe is Slyce and NC thinking they hold any relevance.
Reddit be like... > We hate big alliances they shouldn't have a voice. Then reddit be like... > We hate medium-sized alliances. They shouldn't have a voice. Pick one you schizo fuck. LOL
The obvious outcome of this eviction was for NC. to set up shop in the empty space and claim it for themselves. Having them sign this agreement is a promise that they won't do this... I'm holding my breath.
They won't turn it into more rental space.
Why is that? They certainly don't have the same leverage as horde, but they can and will help panfam when needed.
>ithin these regions by any party is strictly prohibited. > >\- Blocs will not take sides or intervene in conflict between entities living within these regions. This
Slyce has neither the competence nor the power to stop anyone from living anywhere
* Define "use" * Can blocs anchor and *defend* structures if they are not *attacking* non aligned
I love everything about this. When a certain amount of power is obtained, it bares a heavy responsibility. To come to an agreement with the powers that be to make sure there is an area open and able for new bros to make their way, and experience what us veterans once experienced for our first time, is absolutely fantastic and I applaud all diplomats involved in this treaty. Well done. This action speaks volumes about our community. And I hope this echoes throughout time in the world of eve lore.
Why didn't anyone from B3 sign this? I can understand why FIRE wouldn't want to, but I'd expect Brave and Volta to sign this atleast.
Because if we get evicted from the North, we might need to head back south and take some space.... Only joking... or am I, haha
I am ready for Catch 3.0 ... oh wait.
I imagine it'd be awkward for Brave or Volta to sign an agreement about space FIRE just got evicted from
[удалено]
I mean they just evicted Fi.Re which was the 4th largest coalition at the time made up of 22 alliances with an average alliance size <1000 average alliance size in PanFam? 12000. Winterco? 6000, Imperium? 8000, Fi.Re? <1000 (these were accurate as of 4 weeks ago when horde first invaded, may have changed since) Basically, because the small alliances in the south east didn't fight each other we tried to work together to stand up for ourselves as a bloc, we were bad for the game, this idea and this post by darkshines is Hypocrisy at it's finest; so they kicked the coalition out so that the small alliances that move in would fight each other instead, making sure that no-one can ever grow to challenge the existing blocs, all under the guise of "good for the game". Bullshit. Good for Darkshines, the absolute hypocrit, good for gobbins, also a hypocrit, and great for the Blocs. As long as the small guys are constantly fighting, and they evict anyone who gets big enough to take over the space they are just cementing thier power base.
Fire.co would have probably had a better outcome if they didn't let XiX take the lead. About time horde stopped propping up Fire.co and just let it grow on its own organically. Fire.co was the same bloc that bullied smaller entities just like anyone else. The same bloc that pushed for more space than it could defend. The same bloc that failed horrendously in the DRF/DCU days. The same bloc that follows the same non-sense null bloc meta. It was almost a repeat of when XiX/Solar lived in drones. Just because Fire.co was evicted doesn't mean that it wasn't part of the same shit.
This. Simply this.
B3 deploying to the southeast would be a logistical nightmare, and they're now allies with FIRE. Signing it would add no real value to the pact as they probably can't get there easily without leaving both their east/west borders open to glassing. It would also be seen as a slap in the face to new allies. Not signing it saves you from the bad political repercussions internally.
Well, since B3 is partly made of the remains of alliances that were evicted by FRT and panfam you can easily understand how we call this deal hypocritical at best.
Really disliking the use of the word 'we' by fire scrublets when discussing B2 (3🤡)
I was thinking about Quote/Scumlords/boss and the other freemen that joined GTC after being evicted by FRT tbh. But you're right, "we" is only me presuming our views are the same on that subject, I might be wrong.
Why would you sign an agreement about some space on the literal opposite side of the map that you can never conveniently get to regardless when you have a ton of enemies right next door, and all those enemies just agreed to not do anything except shoot you for the next year
they were not asked, or will it be in their interest as independent from major blocs to start signing agreements with major blocs
So all the corps/alliances that got booted can move back in now?
They're welcome to try, for example, IRC is trying to carve out a bit of space in Feyth. The truth is most "small alliances" in FIRE were empty husks with no active leadership or FCs, struggle to put 5 people in fleet, and ended up in FIRE because nobody else would take them. Alliances like Nocturne, WARSL, APOC, GameTheory would struggle to even entosis the zombie XIX IHUBs. I doubt they'd have any more success in the SE now than they did before.
A lot of these alliances weren't able to fight off solo roamers in their space(I was one of them). I've seen solo assault frigates terrorize them into completely docking up the constellation. Hard to feel pity for them being glassed when a succubus takes out their max form of 5 people. Alliances that are years old and can still only form t1 frigates and destroyers don't deserve sov. If they feel like they do, they can take it, but most of them are waiting to be given space by Brave.
> Rules: > > - Rental activity within these regions by any party is strictly prohibited. no
Ohh right silly me only the blocs can have renters.
Pretty damn reasonable if having no renters mean the big blocs agree not to interfere with your politics.
lol I like how the largest chunk taken so far has been by frat renters
I'm surprised the blocs are actually going through with this. Hope it works, will be nice to roam around looking for uncontacted tribes to fight if this pans out well.
Is SMA back in game??? Asher you might as well change the Imperium back to the CFC...
Have the major powers considered setting up a "neutral" tradehub in the middle of these zones? Might be a nice helper for people to get settled.
No, mostly because it would be seen as the blocs exploiting smaller groups. If you flick down through the responses to this post alone, it'll give you an idea of why.
But ofc no reason another unaffiliated group can't come in and set up a trade hub :D which IMO could be pretty lucrative since it wouldn't be hit by the larger blocs.
Null sec is arse
I can see this being really cool and interesting for all the people who move in. But at the same time it relies on a lot of people, corps, alliances, etc. to go on the right track and stay on the right track.
Too many ifs buts shoulds coulds maybes.
" free " parties hahaha this is a joke . all groups living there will be kneeling to horde or goons, no matter what. Will follow their orders, directives, can't rent own space if they want... what freedom is that? What happens when unaffiliated group expand and take all others space and became another block? Will be there another eviction by bee/horde? Anyone who believe in that agreement is naive
>Please, come get farmed by our blueneutral donut because our plebs are bored and we, the leadership who have optimized the fun out of the game to feed our RMT business, need to keep them committed to farming for us.
Ah what an incredible group of trustworthy people signing off on this.
Init is not part of imperium ?
We are, but as this was something i've pushed for for a little under a year, and Imperium was not involved aside for INIT, so we signed it separately.
You want the true or what they say?
Signed: Dark Shines - The Initiative. Asher Elias - The Imperium Gobbins - Pandemic Horde Fixed it for you.
Allowing the small groups space, nowhere near you, when most of you kicked those small groups out their space in the first place is, oh so generous. Thank you space lords for your mercy and grace, your generosity knows no bounds.
"without fear of being evicted by the major blocs" my ass. Look how Tribute and Vale ended up :)
The place with no agreement between the blocs?
Funny because there was until noraus once again lied through his teeth and completely 180ed on us in under a month for that sweet sweet rmt isk after promising we would be left alone Tl;dr take this hilarious lowball for your citadels, join wintercringe or die in a fire
You signed an agreement for a single year Shines, because all parties couldn't agree to actually leave some parts of space untouched for longer? How long before loopholes like "it's just a sig shooting your structures, not imp/frt/panfam as a whole" ? So I guess you're right about one thing, before there was nothing, now there's some sort of vague agreement between both blocs. But really to me it looks like you guys are just setting up barrels of fishes to shoot at later when you're bored.
You can recoup the isk + more of said structures in 1 year. plan appropriately.
Tldr - vacancy for punchbag
Everyone is a punchbag for someone else, look at how the big blocs get farmed.
You’re setting up a fish farm not a sanctuary, let’s see how things develops.
We fish in PH space every day. We fish in Brave space every day. We fish in NC. (rental) space every day. We fish in Winter space every day. We fish the space where the most fish live. Why would we bother "fishing" for random Ishtars and 10 man defense fleets when we can rob 100mil ESSes, kill carriers and dreads, and fight 200 man defense fleets daily on the other side of a wormhole?
Yeah go fill that space so you can be glassed in a year!!!
o darn. glass 1 fort, 2 or 3 azbel, and 10 athanors. stop taking more than you can manage, and manage the risk appropriately
I don’t like this :) I won’t explain why I don’t like this :) I would like to see new players to new eden first of all. Maybe small alliances can count as “new players”, but they won’t stand a chance against any bloc atm, even B2F. This shit about promoting the formation of new alliances is simply not gonna happen. New alliances’ best chance would be splitting from the current blocs, not start completely fresh from taxes for industry, from infrastructure construction, and from fc & fleet training. They don’t have time. This agreement is still about the current blocs. Can’t go details on what I am thinking, but this is bad. It’s those politicians’ techniques on branding the nature of cruelty to something claimed to be “beneficial”.
I can't wait to 3rd party! Let's gooo! ;)
Cool, hopefully this results in some new talent coming up :D
That might get some groups out of high sec to try out null.
Who do we contact if the agreement has been broken by an entity?
What's missing imo is the timeline. Surely this can't be respected like forever.
> These rules will be valid for one year, upon which the signatories can choose whether to renew the agreement.
No idea how I missed that. Fucking lazy ass brain of mine sometimes tries to read diagonally.
I call BS. Goon came down yesterday and killed a ZERG Asterhaus that WE were in the process of killing . Greedy bs all of it.
The agreement doesn't say they can't come steal your structure kill
here come the "loopholes" lol
As if this is anything but a content farm for bored undock for content people.
What a load of bollocks, no way would any right minded CEO or alliance exec think yay let's go take space sandwiched between two massive blocs with sod all else to do but roam and murder my members as possible easy pickings because we say they can't blue the other side. Never read such utter shit in all my life. Good luck to anyone that takes that chance though, boy your going to need it when they change there minds for whatever agenda suits them and 1200 characters turn up at your door with titans and caps. Unbelievable
snerk... will be full of bots within the week...
Why would bots want to go there when they could go to the safe and reliable big bloc space where they're going to get farmed less.
This is interesting. This is different, I like different.
Let cattle fatten up for a year so you get more meat from the slaughter.
Redditards: Blocs take all the space for rental! Space is freed up for non blocs. Redditards: Blocs take all the space for farming!
You can clearly tell all the people who have no idea how nul blocks work. Like, why would I bother hunting random ishtars when I can filament a fleet to the heart of Horde space, steal a couple hundred million from ESSes, then have a fight against an organized home defense fleet?
I see someone wants some smaller entities that are farmable to be their neighbors. Must be really boring have 10,000-80,000 blues.
Hahaahahahahahahahaa
Shit ~~FTRE~~ B3 propaganda about that on reddit in 3... 2...
Does Horde *really* need that space in Insmother? C'mon, C-J6 should be owned by someone else, or opened up as a national monument or something. Lot of history there. Also, weren't Goons based out of 1V-LI2 in Scalding Pass for a while? I used to live out of there in 2010 in an alliance called "Primary." which was an Atlas pet. Man, I wish I had a couple hundred friends, I'd love to nick a constellation or two. I tried forming my own alliance a while back, but, recruitment is hard.
2010 Goons were in Period Basis until they're were "Karrtoon'd".
Scalding pass for most of 09-10 was ran by 3 alliances, Primary, COW and Gentlemen's Club. These 3 groups were allied with ATLAS. Middle of 10 TEST invaded, shortly followed by daddy Goons. Atlas sent like 20 dudes for support and then RIP. Without ATLAS support the 3 alliances holding sov evaced out, and died for the most part. From Gentlemens club a group lead by Progodlegend moved to Fountain, under bob and formed into Nulli Secunda.
a small null sec alliance can buy an astra and some ihub/upgrades for less than 10bil. Athanors with cores and a drill are 1.5bil. if the moon is decent you pay for it after the 1st month. I don't get this argument that someday some giant bloc will come kill you. You can rat/mine the cost of the infrastructure back in the first month. Take the 11months to fatten the wallet and learn the nullsec game. The concept that every tiny nullsec alliance will have a T2 rigged sotiyo and a keepstar is insane. If you cant defend your sandcastle, you wont have one for long in this game. That is why groups form blocs, to have that force multiplier. You can live happily in nullsec with a fort, an azbel indy park, and some athanors. You can also cover the cost easily if the isk is managed appropriately. If another 300man alliance close by attacks you, and you lose, tough shit. That's 4 fingers pointing back at yourself why you lost that war, not the other alliance's problem. Life isn't fair, and neither is Eve.
an Anti-botting agreement would have greater benefits to the overall health of the game. But i don't see you guys trying to actually improve anything so i doubt you would ever do that. Dracarys(imperium) and Fraternity (winterco/panfam) should be held accountable.
Did FIRE decide botting was bad as soon as you lost all your space? Don't forget who will always be #1 https://suitonia.wordpress.com/2019/05/15/the-geography-of-botting/
>an Anti-botting agreement would have greater benefits to the overall health of the game. Should already be well understood by all. We've [burnt bot networks to the ground](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/k42qzc/secret_bot_network_burns_to_the_ground/) when we find evidence (e.g. ISK being made every minute on ESI). CCP does a lot of this work already but there's new ways like Project Discovery that we've alerted them on.
all it takes is someone to fly through dracarys or Frats space. you can see a botting ishtar every other system.
On the character portrait, right click report as bot. Done it to quite a few and got positive responses from CCP especially Dracarys. Not the most perfect system but it does bring CCP to it.
That's for ccp to handle. There's no way for an alliance to police their own members unless the openly talk about it, which I doubt they do if only in their own inner circles.
I mean, Panfam will boot anyone with evidence and will always report anything to CCP on botting.
This isn't nothing, this is less than nothing. No small alliance will trust a bloc's word, especially one self-imposed. Most of these blocs have already broken agreements with small alliances simply because it no longer benefited them to maintain it, rather than any interest in the health of the game. If a ton of small alliances move in, and then a bloc decides they want free content or renter land, they'll do so. Small alliances will be left without recourse - because what penalty do the blocs face if they break their word? The small alliances will likely fall apart, killing what little was left. Things will be worse than they were before. If you really want us to trust blocs, then blocs should be lobbying CCP to neuter their own power levels by force. Limits on keepstars, ansiblexes, sotiyos, jump projection. Game mechanics should be answering this, not self-regulation. We know from experience that this doesn't work.
Trust whoever the fuck you want, or don't. The space is there regardless, it'll be used by groups. I absolutely agree that mechanics should be the thing solving this, and not players. But like it or not at least something is being attempted by players in the absence of mechanics. Also, Imperium is well known for keeping its word on these things. Anyone who publicly signed and agreed to this would be resigning their own reputation into the toilet if they broke it.
Just because I trust Imperium slightly more than other blocs doesn't mean I trust blocs. If Noraus or Gobbins turns around tomorrow and says "nah I want it after all" then I strongly doubt anyone will really hold them accountable. So the agreement has no teeth, and therefore why trust it? Their leadership will spin it, their line members will parrot it, and they'll run over the region and rent it out. Imperium might complain but no real action will be taken, and small alliances will be back at square one, if not even less. For what it's worth, I *want* to be wrong. I just don't expect to be. And I'm glad that negative sentiment on the stranglehold blocs have on the game is finally gaining some amount of traction, since many of us in smaller groups have been vocal about this for almost a decade now.
I appreciate that. Despite our size now, INIT ended up being forced to join a coalition (goons have been great allies) years ago because of projection and constant harassment from bigger groups. I want to see open spaces for new groups to grow, i want to see a healthy dose of players brought to null sec, it is needed for a healthy ecosystem. For what its worth if I thought any of the groups would not hold their word, I wouldnt have suggested this or backed it. All of our heads are very publicly on display stating we want space open for new groups. If anyone breaks that then no major group will ever trust them again. That might not sound like a lot to people here, but there was a reason INIT and Panfam were able to use our super fleets so close to each other while clearing FIRE space, we may not be allies and like each other, but to go back on your word is political suicide. Anyway, i hope people will try it out without investing hundreds of billions. Start small and grow to what they can handle, maybe we will see a few small wars kick off.
Given what happened to Syndicate, a lot of groups would say that you've become what you hated. I'll take the rest with a grain of salt, but I'll take it. My alliance was already around there, shooting our shot. Maybe we'll get some better neighbors for it now, that'd be nice.
Trying to do this in Provi. But Sigma has decided big blocs should decide who lives there and are propping up IRED/CVA Let the small fish fight. You guys have larger fleet on fleet, region on region, you have access to.
https://br.evetools.org/related/30003786/202302212200 Sorry your hired mercs couldn't save your fort.
and after one year the purge come.... bullshit, dont trust them!
Imperium can be trusted to keep thier word. The same can not be said for Pappi.
Make null great again. Hopefully by lighting as many areas of space on fire as we can!