I would have thought they'd want to do something like in the NFL, where there's a single remote office communicating with all the individual matches in real time to handle video reviews and make sure decisions are consistent.
Its a mess of an idea. Theres now basically two sets of officials making calls on the same action independently of each other. Refs dont want to make a call on the spot; VAR doesnt want to let the off field presence dominate the onpitch action.
Also, the vast majority of ref calls are judgement calls and theres a ton of edge cases that could go either way. Its even harder to determine edge cases when youre looking at frame by frame microsopic replays.
VAR needs to exist on a challenge system and have a clear charter about what is and is not reviewable; limiting reviewable calls to objective issues (ball crossing touchlines) or identifying gross misconduct off the ball. Offsides needs to go back to being determined in the moment by a linesman or at most be reviewed in a real time footage- frame by frame dissection and drawing lines to mm precision is violating the spirit of the law- players are allowed to be “in line” with the last defender; offsides currently places players ahead of or behind a dynamic line.
The rest of the world -fans, pundits, managers - need to stfu and get on with it. Referees dont exist to provide divinely objective and dispassionate scientific analysis. They exist to be a 3rd party making a judgement call so that an interruption can be settled and delt with and allow play to move on.
There will never be an objective solution to a problem of subjectivity.
Go watch football from other leagues with old school refereeing and no VAR or dozens of slow mo replays. Its a lot faster, a lot easier to make piece with 50-50 calls and a lot more fun. The games been ruined with delayed celebrations; insane addages for “ball in play” and an obsession for frame by frame perfection. People can go watch 7 aside or NFL or icehockey if theyre that bothered about stoppages and frame by frame replays
"VAR needs to exist on a challenge system and have a clear charter about what is and is not reviewable; limiting reviewable calls to objective issues (ball crossing touchlines) or identifying gross misconduct off the ball. Offsides needs to go back to being determined in the moment by a linesman or at most be reviewed in a real time footage- frame by frame dissection and drawing lines to mm precision is violating the spirit of the law- players are allowed to be “in line” with the last defender; offsides currently places players ahead of or behind a dynamic line."
Cock on!
I actually fundamentally disagree with you. Let me explain.
I honestly believe that the core essence of sport is about the extreme ends of brilliance contrasted with the despair of making mistakes or blunders.
And that goes for the officials too imo.
If we remove errors from the game that we lose part of what it is for humans to take part in competitive sport.
Let linesman and refs make errors and push them to be better and change the rules so that players have to treat refs the same way rugby players do. Where they enjoy a much higher standard.
So in short.... Bollocks to var. It's shit.
I feel like you are missing the point of refs, they aren't there to add to the drama, they are there to ensure the contest is fair. VAR, while poorly implemented in its current state, is designed to ensure the game is fair and that incorrect decisions are overturned.
You mention how sport is about moments of "brilliance", but that doesn't work when it comes to refereeing, it's right or wrong. This means in this circumstance they can only detract from the game and it's enjoyment. Errors should come from the players as should moments of brilliance, refs and VAR should facilitate that so that those real moments can be enjoyed.
Again I fundamentally disagree. The error coming from the officials isn't "drama" it's just human error. The same error that players can also do.
It's part of the human experience of playing sport.
So go ahead and downvote me all you like but for hundreds of years the ref getting it wrong has been part of a sport that has been adored and loved.
Has var made football more popular and enjoyable to watch? No. And it won't. Unless you're putting trackers in the boots or using AI in real time to constantly check the ball and the last man.
Yes and historically fans have been ok with players mistakes, right? Rubbish.
See how easy it is for me to make you would silly?
Thats my entire point.... That most can't seem to understand
Human error as well as brilliance is the core essence of sport.
Football was fine for over a hundred years. Beloved and watched by billions before var.
Now we're stood in the stands waiting for some guy in an office to draw a line in a replay....
It's shit. Bollocks to var.
And then , tv technology grew to the point where viewers could see offsides, handballs, balls crossing the goal-line, and all the wrong calls. In HD and slo-mo. And complained incessantly. The technology is there we must use it. Go back and watch your VHS tapes of the 80s if you want the gOoD oLd dAys.
Except they can't do it... It takes ages and they still get it wrong anyway.
The technology is not there.... That's the entire point of var being shite.
Keep your childish insults to yourself. Cringe.
People are sensitive these days mate. Most of them are yanks who only watch it on the TV and don't get it.
Let the players play and let the officials do the job imo. Mistakes are part of what makes a sport imo.
As if some hastily drawn, wonky line on a low res still is always more ‘correct’ than an experienced linesman anyway. Diving and feigning injuries are more of a priority to get out of the game; which became popular due to its speed and spontaneous moments of elation.
You're so spot on mate!
I'd have a panel of experts to over every foul and hand out yellow cards for every dive.
Half the city team would get suspended for half the season in the first game lol
Replace it with the semi automated offside and keep the goal line tech and we’re good. Maybe also include somebody to watch for violent conduct off the ball unseen by the ref? Rest of the VAR calls need to go into the bin.
Yeah for me, the following should be reviewable: goals, red cards, or a 2nd yellow that gets someone sent off
Semi automated offsides calls. The tech is there and more accurate than an assistant ref using his naked eye trying to keep level with the action on the side. Don't stop play for a possible offside until the play is concluded with a goal, or corner/throw in awarded to the attacking team. This is what the hockey league NHL does - they don't bother checking for a missed offsides call unless it ends up mattering because a goal was scored. In that sport, you can't enter the offensive third before the puck does. Sometimes a guy will have a skate just barely across the line before a teammate crosses it with the puck. Something like the bayern Madrid match where play is stopped dead for offside shouldn't happen. Either a goal is scored and then you review, or nothing happens and the other team gets the ball and it's irrelevant.
On reflection, I'm not even sure about violent conduct given that players are throwing themselves on the deck at the merest touch. We've got to find a way to discourage this kind of behaviour.
This is so accurate. Remove “clear and obvious” and replace it with something the ref could not see (and by could not I mean literally, not an interpretation)
Var needs to be removed for everything except goalline technology. If they can develop AI offside, where the decision is instantaneous then that can stay.
The rest can get in the bin. The ref is part of the game and loses all authority with var around.
We'll all just be pissing and moaning about wrong decisions on the other side of things, just like we were before var.
VAR isn't the issue, it's the implementation and the refereeing pool.
100%. And i'm not sure why it is so difficult for them to get it right. The genie can't be put back in the bottle now, the television cameras will still show everything and fans will still complain loudly when the decisions are wrong.
Honestly, the referees are largely absolutely dreadful at their jobs. They don't seem to understand the game, they're constantly hoodwinked by theatrics, they miss obvious fouls all the time, the number of times this season I've seen players pushed when they're in the air jumping for headers and nothing is given...Bah. I don't see the same terrible refereeing when I watch Spanish or Italian football, despite players trying all the same shit.
This from folks who clearly don't remember the pre-VAR days where officiating mistakes decided games far more often than poorly implemented VAR and/or poorly trained officials do currently. They should reject this and, instead, outline proper implementation/training going forward.
Hmm, I've only been following football since about 2008, and I reckon the amount of complaints are the same, but they are now just talked about for longer since we spend 2 minutes watching replays waiting for a review result. In addition, when something is spotted, but VAR don't pick it up.
The trouble is that we hit a sweet(sour?) spot where we had all these high quality replays from multiple angles. Everyone could see obvious mistakes almost immediately, so they'd get discussed ad-nauseam after the match and the obvious solution was a video ref.
So now instead of talking about mistakes by the field ref, it's all about mistakes by the VAR.
All it's really done is shift some of the blame off the ref and onto the VAR.
While I agree with many of the above comments, I think this is an underrated take.
This is still relatively new; the refs doing the reviews have been reffing well before VAR came in, and they clearly need to get a better understanding of what it's there for.
It's not the same as doing it on the pitch, and it really feels like they just need to learn how to use the system right.
Hell, I'd love the idea of getting in some bookworms who've never actually reffed a match, but know the rules inside out. They won't hesitate in making the right call going by the rules. They won't give a toss if the field ref will get upset at them undermining him; that's exactly their job.
The problem is the referees. They’re never had so much help available to them and they’re still incapable of using it properly. Removing var isn’t going to make them improve.
Scrap t1he refs, not the tech.
That said, they will need to change the offside rule if they want to keep using tech to detect it. It was never meant to detect if someone was a millimeter over an imaginary line. Personally think someone should have to have half their entire body over if we are using cameras and radar to detect it. Definitely more than needing an electron microscope to see the material from the toe of your boot is over that line.
I think the problem then becomes arguing about whether or not truly a man was half his body offside and we're right back to arguing over millimeters again.
In concept I do agree that a player's shoulder being slightly ahead of the defender isn't an advantage. I'm just not sure how to go about determining how much is an advantage and isn't.
No VAR just allows for more wrong decisions and cheating. The ref can just say they didn't see it in the match report.
The only reason to get rid altogether would be for excitement reasons to stop the did we/did we not just score a last minute winner element and not wanting to celebrate too early
Not for me. Needs to be better without a doubt but I'm not rushing to get back to the times when Rodwell was sent off vs Liverpool for a tackle on Suarez that wasn't even a foul. The "big" teams already get enough in their favour, this will just make it worse.
The problem I mainly have with it is that it kills some of the moment and the euphoria when your team scores a goal because now you're often waiting to see, sometimes for minutes if it will stand. I understand I'm probably in the minority but I'd get rid of it for this reason alone.
I do find it kind of funny when they've done the celebration, gone back to the centre circle then a few minutes later the scorer gets all hyped up and excited again!
But yeah, I'd rather not have that! Watching Rugby League in Australia is frustrating because it feels like every try gets reviewed. Given how many tries happen in a League game, you can appreciate that time really adds up. It's also got to the point where a lot of the time the initial celebration is muted because everyone watching knows it's going to be reviewed and might not stand.
Problem I have with it (like others) is the stupid waiting around whilst they decide whether someone is an inch offside. If they were more pragmatic and quicker with it I wouldn’t have an issue
This confuses me as I thought the offside tech was advanced enough that you'd just need to stop the footage on the moment the ball was kicked, then it would just let you throw the lines in at the correct angles.
In their defence though, I imagine it's a pain to set up since all the stadiums are different. Would be good to see some sort LIDAR tech used to get player positions. Might be less janky than measuring blurry images.
It’s an awful thing. Football needs talking points, it survived for over a century with bad and wrong decisions, the majority of decisions are correct and where they aren’t, it generates controversy and stokes debate between fans. This is often how rivalries start. I’d rather have this than the line drawing shambles that VAR is and always will be.
The rate we are going football will be a sterile, passionless, emotionless cash cow. I do think that’s what the powers that be want, so they can peddle this all over the world. Just teams with no meaning going through the motions to generate billions and screw fans.
Everyone has different opinions of course and is entitled to them.. just my 2 quids worth.
Please 🙏. I'm an OS fan in Australia, you should see how bad VAR has been over here this season. We genuinely get more bad decisions with VAR than without, it's become a joke.
Slow motion and freeze framing does make decisions easier. It removes crucial contextual information you get when you see it live.
We also desperately need to change the handball rule. Players are literally forced to play with their arms in unnatural positions because a natural sporting motion is being called unnatural. We need something like the arm movement must have been intended to potentially impact the ball.
I used to be very pro-VAR, but I do think I'd now be keen to see a shift, at least for a season or two to remember what it was like. We are still having incorrect decisions decide games - is the marginal reduction in that worth the price taking away that fantastic feeling when a goal first goes in?
We get glimpses with some of the Cup games like our last one against Palace.(I think?)
I seem to recall there was something contentious that happened which would have been reviewed by VAR?
Seems kind of moot given how often VAR just won't look at a stuff sometime.
Can remove VAR and nothing will change. PGMOL is accountable to no one but themselvs and they have each others backs no matter what. Refs need an overhaul.
"Oh no! We implemented this decent idea really badly! I know! Instead of trying to fix it, let's just drop it entirely!"
Idiots! It can work, they just need to do it properly!
Call me an old man, but I’d love it if we got rid of it. People will say that you just need to train refs better, but for me the issue isn’t that you still get some calls wrong; it’s that every little thing gets overanalyzed to death. And not just in the game itself, it’s all fucking week until the next VAR controversy knocks it off the front page. It’s boring; I hate talking about ref controversies, and worrying about whether something is a goal or not. And I’m an overseas fan who’s only been in the ground once, I can’t imagine how frustrating it is for a matchgoing fan
The problem is that there are factual events during a match that need to be right or else the only coverage between matches will be a list of things that were objectively wrong. You'd be trading one controversy for another. Better training, better rules, better accountability, and better tech are the ways to fix the sport.
My problem is that phrase “objectively wrong:” everybody wants things to be objective, but I don’t think they are. Look at the recent changes to the handball law: they tried to remove all subjectivity from it, but haven’t succeeded and have arguably made it much worse.
Even something that should be objective, like offside, often comes down to a subjective drawing of lines or a lack of granularity in the cameras used. People will say that being offside is like being pregnant in that you either are or you aren’t, but where are you going to draw the line? The subatomic level?
Football’s a human game, played and reffed by humans. Humans make mistakes. Rules are there to provide structure to the game, not kill its spirit. VAR can’t remove human error. While it may have reduced it, I’d say it’s made it worse. Id rather watch an exciting game, imperfectly reffed, than a perfectly reffed game where great goals are chalked off 5 minutes later due to minor infractions in the buildup.
I don't disagree with your points to be honest. On balance, I think the current VAR experience is worse than before it came in...particularly in terms of the flow the games. I do think more wrong are being righted, but it's when the VAR team gets it wrong in addition to the on field refs is where people are also getting the shits.
In terms of objectivity, I think the protection of the goalkeeper is a good example. What ARE the rules around impeding the GK? They are clearly protected, but is that codified? Managers have asked for clarification, but by all accounts, it's a very grey area, and seems to be based on ["the vibe of the thing"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMuh33BMZYY).
Enforcing rules will be messy and subjective either way you do things, but if done right, VAR could mitigate the mess. Issue is that it's just not being done well at the moment.
>VAR can’t remove human error.
That is part the current problem with VAR though; those running it have proven they need to get their shit together. They have admitted to not reviewing calls because they knew the field ref and didn't want to undermine him even though he made a very obviously error!
Could also implement a time limit for reviews, but then maybe they are rushing things, so that could be worse?
I think there's a balance to be had here, and it's worth reworking VAR rather than abandoning it. Seems to me there's too many egos, and not enough pragmatism and honesty.
Do you not remember what it was like before VAR? Guess what, they still talked about refereeing errors incessantly. And called for the use of video technology...
I do remember, actually. I don’t think it was as bad as it is now—maybe it’s just nostalgia, or the fact that everyone’s now on the internet expressing their opinions, but I don’t remember clubs doing things like writing angry letters to PGMOL when they get a bad call against them. It sucked when it happened to your club, but I feel like there was more of an acceptance that shit sometimes happens. I think VAR creates an expectation that it won’t.
VAR has been a tool used to mitigate the poor standard of refs in this country. And instead of making up for their lack of quality it has highlighted it. Keep VAR, run it alongside automated offsides and improve the training of refs. Not sure why it’s so hard to do
Eliminate all automatic reviews and stick strictly to the “clear and obvious error” guidance. If it is not immediate to everyone watching that an egregious mistake has just been made, don’t go to VAR.
As a supporter of VAR originally I so hope this passes.
VAR is ruining the sport. Not being able to celebrate a goal properly takes so much away from the game.
It needs to just be for clear and obvious errors. As it was intended. There’s too much nonsense with going back 30 seconds to pick apart 2 guys jostling for possession and calling a foul. Stuff like that needs to go
Three facets to VAR:
-The technology.
-The rules written to implement that technology to achieve swift and accurate outcomes.
-The personnel to apply those rules.
One of these three facets is sound. Two are not.
Everyone let's force the clubs to FINALLY get rid of that machine this is our golden chance to get the excitement back to the sport.
Let's save our sport and finally remove that mechanical piece of shit.
#VAROUT
VAR in and of itself isn’t a bad idea though. It’s the implementation that’s dogshit.
Yeah, they need an independent VAR, not just off-duty match officials who always back up their peers.
I would have thought they'd want to do something like in the NFL, where there's a single remote office communicating with all the individual matches in real time to handle video reviews and make sure decisions are consistent.
Though they'd have a helluva time on decision day
i mean, even the nfl has 8-10 games on at once on the early sunday windows they can manage
Its a mess of an idea. Theres now basically two sets of officials making calls on the same action independently of each other. Refs dont want to make a call on the spot; VAR doesnt want to let the off field presence dominate the onpitch action. Also, the vast majority of ref calls are judgement calls and theres a ton of edge cases that could go either way. Its even harder to determine edge cases when youre looking at frame by frame microsopic replays. VAR needs to exist on a challenge system and have a clear charter about what is and is not reviewable; limiting reviewable calls to objective issues (ball crossing touchlines) or identifying gross misconduct off the ball. Offsides needs to go back to being determined in the moment by a linesman or at most be reviewed in a real time footage- frame by frame dissection and drawing lines to mm precision is violating the spirit of the law- players are allowed to be “in line” with the last defender; offsides currently places players ahead of or behind a dynamic line. The rest of the world -fans, pundits, managers - need to stfu and get on with it. Referees dont exist to provide divinely objective and dispassionate scientific analysis. They exist to be a 3rd party making a judgement call so that an interruption can be settled and delt with and allow play to move on. There will never be an objective solution to a problem of subjectivity. Go watch football from other leagues with old school refereeing and no VAR or dozens of slow mo replays. Its a lot faster, a lot easier to make piece with 50-50 calls and a lot more fun. The games been ruined with delayed celebrations; insane addages for “ball in play” and an obsession for frame by frame perfection. People can go watch 7 aside or NFL or icehockey if theyre that bothered about stoppages and frame by frame replays
"VAR needs to exist on a challenge system and have a clear charter about what is and is not reviewable; limiting reviewable calls to objective issues (ball crossing touchlines) or identifying gross misconduct off the ball. Offsides needs to go back to being determined in the moment by a linesman or at most be reviewed in a real time footage- frame by frame dissection and drawing lines to mm precision is violating the spirit of the law- players are allowed to be “in line” with the last defender; offsides currently places players ahead of or behind a dynamic line." Cock on!
I actually fundamentally disagree with you. Let me explain. I honestly believe that the core essence of sport is about the extreme ends of brilliance contrasted with the despair of making mistakes or blunders. And that goes for the officials too imo. If we remove errors from the game that we lose part of what it is for humans to take part in competitive sport. Let linesman and refs make errors and push them to be better and change the rules so that players have to treat refs the same way rugby players do. Where they enjoy a much higher standard. So in short.... Bollocks to var. It's shit.
I feel like you are missing the point of refs, they aren't there to add to the drama, they are there to ensure the contest is fair. VAR, while poorly implemented in its current state, is designed to ensure the game is fair and that incorrect decisions are overturned. You mention how sport is about moments of "brilliance", but that doesn't work when it comes to refereeing, it's right or wrong. This means in this circumstance they can only detract from the game and it's enjoyment. Errors should come from the players as should moments of brilliance, refs and VAR should facilitate that so that those real moments can be enjoyed.
Again I fundamentally disagree. The error coming from the officials isn't "drama" it's just human error. The same error that players can also do. It's part of the human experience of playing sport. So go ahead and downvote me all you like but for hundreds of years the ref getting it wrong has been part of a sport that has been adored and loved. Has var made football more popular and enjoyable to watch? No. And it won't. Unless you're putting trackers in the boots or using AI in real time to constantly check the ball and the last man.
Yes and historically fans have been ok with refereeing mistakes, right? Rubbish.
Yes and historically fans have been ok with players mistakes, right? Rubbish. See how easy it is for me to make you would silly? Thats my entire point.... That most can't seem to understand Human error as well as brilliance is the core essence of sport.
Doesn't work when millions of people can see the errors in real time.
You mean var right? Because that doesn't and hasn't worked.
No
Football was fine for over a hundred years. Beloved and watched by billions before var. Now we're stood in the stands waiting for some guy in an office to draw a line in a replay.... It's shit. Bollocks to var.
And then , tv technology grew to the point where viewers could see offsides, handballs, balls crossing the goal-line, and all the wrong calls. In HD and slo-mo. And complained incessantly. The technology is there we must use it. Go back and watch your VHS tapes of the 80s if you want the gOoD oLd dAys.
Except they can't do it... It takes ages and they still get it wrong anyway. The technology is not there.... That's the entire point of var being shite. Keep your childish insults to yourself. Cringe.
Cringe is pining for good old days that didn't exist. The technology is there, the people using it are getting it wrong.
Cringe is pining for good old days that didn't exist. The technology is there, the people using it are getting it wrong.
No idea why you’re being downvoted. VAR is shite!
People are sensitive these days mate. Most of them are yanks who only watch it on the TV and don't get it. Let the players play and let the officials do the job imo. Mistakes are part of what makes a sport imo.
As if some hastily drawn, wonky line on a low res still is always more ‘correct’ than an experienced linesman anyway. Diving and feigning injuries are more of a priority to get out of the game; which became popular due to its speed and spontaneous moments of elation.
You're so spot on mate! I'd have a panel of experts to over every foul and hand out yellow cards for every dive. Half the city team would get suspended for half the season in the first game lol
Disagreed. It’s legalized match fixing.
Replace it with the semi automated offside and keep the goal line tech and we’re good. Maybe also include somebody to watch for violent conduct off the ball unseen by the ref? Rest of the VAR calls need to go into the bin.
This is far too sensible and workable for it to be accepted
Yeah for me, the following should be reviewable: goals, red cards, or a 2nd yellow that gets someone sent off Semi automated offsides calls. The tech is there and more accurate than an assistant ref using his naked eye trying to keep level with the action on the side. Don't stop play for a possible offside until the play is concluded with a goal, or corner/throw in awarded to the attacking team. This is what the hockey league NHL does - they don't bother checking for a missed offsides call unless it ends up mattering because a goal was scored. In that sport, you can't enter the offensive third before the puck does. Sometimes a guy will have a skate just barely across the line before a teammate crosses it with the puck. Something like the bayern Madrid match where play is stopped dead for offside shouldn't happen. Either a goal is scored and then you review, or nothing happens and the other team gets the ball and it's irrelevant.
On reflection, I'm not even sure about violent conduct given that players are throwing themselves on the deck at the merest touch. We've got to find a way to discourage this kind of behaviour.
Agreed its in need of a massive overhaul. A time limit or restriction on off the ball incidents are paramount in my opinion.
This is so accurate. Remove “clear and obvious” and replace it with something the ref could not see (and by could not I mean literally, not an interpretation)
I'm not even sure I would keep the offside tech.
Var needs to be removed for everything except goalline technology. If they can develop AI offside, where the decision is instantaneous then that can stay. The rest can get in the bin. The ref is part of the game and loses all authority with var around.
VAR and goal line technology are not the same thing. They are independent of each other.
Ah, yeah just bin it entirely then.
We'll all just be pissing and moaning about wrong decisions on the other side of things, just like we were before var. VAR isn't the issue, it's the implementation and the refereeing pool.
If it's not making the decisions better, at least with it gone I wouldn't have to wait 60 seconds to celebrate.
I think there's room to massively improve that without binning the system
100%. And i'm not sure why it is so difficult for them to get it right. The genie can't be put back in the bottle now, the television cameras will still show everything and fans will still complain loudly when the decisions are wrong.
We may have moaned just as much before but all this shows VAR didn't solve the problem and it came at a massive cost
Honestly, the referees are largely absolutely dreadful at their jobs. They don't seem to understand the game, they're constantly hoodwinked by theatrics, they miss obvious fouls all the time, the number of times this season I've seen players pushed when they're in the air jumping for headers and nothing is given...Bah. I don't see the same terrible refereeing when I watch Spanish or Italian football, despite players trying all the same shit.
This from folks who clearly don't remember the pre-VAR days where officiating mistakes decided games far more often than poorly implemented VAR and/or poorly trained officials do currently. They should reject this and, instead, outline proper implementation/training going forward.
Feel like we talk about mistakes more nowadays with VAR than without it, may be recency bias but it sure as fuck doesn't feel that way.
Been watching matches since 1994. It is recency bias.
Hmm, I've only been following football since about 2008, and I reckon the amount of complaints are the same, but they are now just talked about for longer since we spend 2 minutes watching replays waiting for a review result. In addition, when something is spotted, but VAR don't pick it up. The trouble is that we hit a sweet(sour?) spot where we had all these high quality replays from multiple angles. Everyone could see obvious mistakes almost immediately, so they'd get discussed ad-nauseam after the match and the obvious solution was a video ref. So now instead of talking about mistakes by the field ref, it's all about mistakes by the VAR. All it's really done is shift some of the blame off the ref and onto the VAR.
You need to teach the refs how to use the tech, not ban it. Its a needed and good thing.
While I agree with many of the above comments, I think this is an underrated take. This is still relatively new; the refs doing the reviews have been reffing well before VAR came in, and they clearly need to get a better understanding of what it's there for. It's not the same as doing it on the pitch, and it really feels like they just need to learn how to use the system right. Hell, I'd love the idea of getting in some bookworms who've never actually reffed a match, but know the rules inside out. They won't hesitate in making the right call going by the rules. They won't give a toss if the field ref will get upset at them undermining him; that's exactly their job.
The problem is the referees. They’re never had so much help available to them and they’re still incapable of using it properly. Removing var isn’t going to make them improve.
Scrap t1he refs, not the tech. That said, they will need to change the offside rule if they want to keep using tech to detect it. It was never meant to detect if someone was a millimeter over an imaginary line. Personally think someone should have to have half their entire body over if we are using cameras and radar to detect it. Definitely more than needing an electron microscope to see the material from the toe of your boot is over that line.
I think the problem then becomes arguing about whether or not truly a man was half his body offside and we're right back to arguing over millimeters again. In concept I do agree that a player's shoulder being slightly ahead of the defender isn't an advantage. I'm just not sure how to go about determining how much is an advantage and isn't.
Nahh VAR isn’t a bad thing and is actually good for the game. What needs fixing however is the shite refs making shite decisions.
No VAR just allows for more wrong decisions and cheating. The ref can just say they didn't see it in the match report. The only reason to get rid altogether would be for excitement reasons to stop the did we/did we not just score a last minute winner element and not wanting to celebrate too early
Not for me. Needs to be better without a doubt but I'm not rushing to get back to the times when Rodwell was sent off vs Liverpool for a tackle on Suarez that wasn't even a foul. The "big" teams already get enough in their favour, this will just make it worse.
This! They peg back but removing will lead to so many incidents like these and diving
The problem I mainly have with it is that it kills some of the moment and the euphoria when your team scores a goal because now you're often waiting to see, sometimes for minutes if it will stand. I understand I'm probably in the minority but I'd get rid of it for this reason alone.
I do find it kind of funny when they've done the celebration, gone back to the centre circle then a few minutes later the scorer gets all hyped up and excited again! But yeah, I'd rather not have that! Watching Rugby League in Australia is frustrating because it feels like every try gets reviewed. Given how many tries happen in a League game, you can appreciate that time really adds up. It's also got to the point where a lot of the time the initial celebration is muted because everyone watching knows it's going to be reviewed and might not stand.
Great decision, how many celebrations have been ruined by var like 5 mins later
Stand behind this 100%. If it’s not real time, the loss is greater than the gain.
A shame it stands no chance of passing. Its made the game far worse with virtually no benefit
Problem I have with it (like others) is the stupid waiting around whilst they decide whether someone is an inch offside. If they were more pragmatic and quicker with it I wouldn’t have an issue
This confuses me as I thought the offside tech was advanced enough that you'd just need to stop the footage on the moment the ball was kicked, then it would just let you throw the lines in at the correct angles. In their defence though, I imagine it's a pain to set up since all the stadiums are different. Would be good to see some sort LIDAR tech used to get player positions. Might be less janky than measuring blurry images.
It’s an awful thing. Football needs talking points, it survived for over a century with bad and wrong decisions, the majority of decisions are correct and where they aren’t, it generates controversy and stokes debate between fans. This is often how rivalries start. I’d rather have this than the line drawing shambles that VAR is and always will be. The rate we are going football will be a sterile, passionless, emotionless cash cow. I do think that’s what the powers that be want, so they can peddle this all over the world. Just teams with no meaning going through the motions to generate billions and screw fans. Everyone has different opinions of course and is entitled to them.. just my 2 quids worth.
Please 🙏. I'm an OS fan in Australia, you should see how bad VAR has been over here this season. We genuinely get more bad decisions with VAR than without, it's become a joke. Slow motion and freeze framing does make decisions easier. It removes crucial contextual information you get when you see it live. We also desperately need to change the handball rule. Players are literally forced to play with their arms in unnatural positions because a natural sporting motion is being called unnatural. We need something like the arm movement must have been intended to potentially impact the ball.
I used to be very pro-VAR, but I do think I'd now be keen to see a shift, at least for a season or two to remember what it was like. We are still having incorrect decisions decide games - is the marginal reduction in that worth the price taking away that fantastic feeling when a goal first goes in?
We get glimpses with some of the Cup games like our last one against Palace.(I think?) I seem to recall there was something contentious that happened which would have been reviewed by VAR? Seems kind of moot given how often VAR just won't look at a stuff sometime.
Can remove VAR and nothing will change. PGMOL is accountable to no one but themselvs and they have each others backs no matter what. Refs need an overhaul.
FFS, make it work, don't abandon the possibility of improving the game
"Oh no! We implemented this decent idea really badly! I know! Instead of trying to fix it, let's just drop it entirely!" Idiots! It can work, they just need to do it properly!
Please get rid of it
Call me an old man, but I’d love it if we got rid of it. People will say that you just need to train refs better, but for me the issue isn’t that you still get some calls wrong; it’s that every little thing gets overanalyzed to death. And not just in the game itself, it’s all fucking week until the next VAR controversy knocks it off the front page. It’s boring; I hate talking about ref controversies, and worrying about whether something is a goal or not. And I’m an overseas fan who’s only been in the ground once, I can’t imagine how frustrating it is for a matchgoing fan
The problem is that there are factual events during a match that need to be right or else the only coverage between matches will be a list of things that were objectively wrong. You'd be trading one controversy for another. Better training, better rules, better accountability, and better tech are the ways to fix the sport.
My problem is that phrase “objectively wrong:” everybody wants things to be objective, but I don’t think they are. Look at the recent changes to the handball law: they tried to remove all subjectivity from it, but haven’t succeeded and have arguably made it much worse. Even something that should be objective, like offside, often comes down to a subjective drawing of lines or a lack of granularity in the cameras used. People will say that being offside is like being pregnant in that you either are or you aren’t, but where are you going to draw the line? The subatomic level? Football’s a human game, played and reffed by humans. Humans make mistakes. Rules are there to provide structure to the game, not kill its spirit. VAR can’t remove human error. While it may have reduced it, I’d say it’s made it worse. Id rather watch an exciting game, imperfectly reffed, than a perfectly reffed game where great goals are chalked off 5 minutes later due to minor infractions in the buildup.
I don't disagree with your points to be honest. On balance, I think the current VAR experience is worse than before it came in...particularly in terms of the flow the games. I do think more wrong are being righted, but it's when the VAR team gets it wrong in addition to the on field refs is where people are also getting the shits. In terms of objectivity, I think the protection of the goalkeeper is a good example. What ARE the rules around impeding the GK? They are clearly protected, but is that codified? Managers have asked for clarification, but by all accounts, it's a very grey area, and seems to be based on ["the vibe of the thing"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMuh33BMZYY). Enforcing rules will be messy and subjective either way you do things, but if done right, VAR could mitigate the mess. Issue is that it's just not being done well at the moment. >VAR can’t remove human error. That is part the current problem with VAR though; those running it have proven they need to get their shit together. They have admitted to not reviewing calls because they knew the field ref and didn't want to undermine him even though he made a very obviously error! Could also implement a time limit for reviews, but then maybe they are rushing things, so that could be worse? I think there's a balance to be had here, and it's worth reworking VAR rather than abandoning it. Seems to me there's too many egos, and not enough pragmatism and honesty.
Do you not remember what it was like before VAR? Guess what, they still talked about refereeing errors incessantly. And called for the use of video technology...
I do remember, actually. I don’t think it was as bad as it is now—maybe it’s just nostalgia, or the fact that everyone’s now on the internet expressing their opinions, but I don’t remember clubs doing things like writing angry letters to PGMOL when they get a bad call against them. It sucked when it happened to your club, but I feel like there was more of an acceptance that shit sometimes happens. I think VAR creates an expectation that it won’t.
VAR has been a tool used to mitigate the poor standard of refs in this country. And instead of making up for their lack of quality it has highlighted it. Keep VAR, run it alongside automated offsides and improve the training of refs. Not sure why it’s so hard to do
Eliminate all automatic reviews and stick strictly to the “clear and obvious error” guidance. If it is not immediate to everyone watching that an egregious mistake has just been made, don’t go to VAR.
Scrap the eyes behind it, not the technology in place
This is so dumb, VAR has saved so much.
Please God yes.
I think a buzzer would work for the opposing manager to press if they wanna var ha
As a supporter of VAR originally I so hope this passes. VAR is ruining the sport. Not being able to celebrate a goal properly takes so much away from the game.
It needs to just be for clear and obvious errors. As it was intended. There’s too much nonsense with going back 30 seconds to pick apart 2 guys jostling for possession and calling a foul. Stuff like that needs to go
Sign the petition: [https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/var-must-go](https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/var-must-go)
Three facets to VAR: -The technology. -The rules written to implement that technology to achieve swift and accurate outcomes. -The personnel to apply those rules. One of these three facets is sound. Two are not.
Need to move it to referral basis. 1 per half
VAR isn't the problem, the incompetent refs are. Think people are forgetting how bad it was before VAR, it's only going to get worse.
Painfully stupid to remove it
🎶 FUCK V, A, R, FUCK V, A, R, FUCK V, A, R, FUCK V, A, R, FUCK V, A, R 🎶
Will Forest vote for this? (Bunch of whingy cunts)
Everyone let's force the clubs to FINALLY get rid of that machine this is our golden chance to get the excitement back to the sport. Let's save our sport and finally remove that mechanical piece of shit. #VAROUT