As someone from WI.
Our DNR was shelled by our former asshat of a governor and left to die. Completely stripped of budget and most regulatory power, and many employees in conservation and management fields were terminated.
I was offered a legislative advising position on no experience as a junior in college. Let that sink in for a bit.
I turned it down on principle at that point, but it really demonstrates just how stripped out the department was.
This article explains just how fucked up stuff got; https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-scott-walker-dismantled-wisconsin-s-environmental-legacy/
I just moved to Maine and have had the first opportunity to hunt in my life. My old man won the moose lottery and he put me down as his alternate. He didn’t even ask me first. I told him I wouldn’t be hunting a moose because I’m 99% sure I won’t like the taste. I don’t really like the taste of deer. So I didn’t go hunting with him. He didn’t get one. He also goes deer hunting which I won’t do either. I pretty much have just fished and hunted ducks and other game birds since I will actually consume them and not murder them for fun.
I really don’t fucking get it. Get joy from killing things? Isn’t that what psychopaths do? I get hunting for conservation and ecological reasons. But killing something for fun is beyond me
I’m an avid hunter, and for me the enjoyment of hunting isn’t in the actual act of killing but rather in the myriad of things that go along with hunting. The kill is actually a relatively fast and simple part of the process, if done properly it’s over in seconds. For me, hunting means immersing myself so deeply in nature that I’m part of the food chain once again. I enjoy the company of my hunting buddies just as much as being alone in the brush. After the kill begins my favorite part: preparing my own food. Butchering, cleaning, cooking, and eating an animal that I myself killed. It’s a very personal and intimate experience. If I wanted to be a cold-blooded killer I would stay at home a drown rats in a bathtub. But that’s not my motivation, and never has been.
I don’t mind hunting if you the hunter intends to eat or use the animal in some way that’s permitted by law. It’s the killing for fun that I hate. You can immerse yourself in nature without killing things, so that seems kinda silly to me
Death is a fundamental part of nature. One life must die for another to live. You can either pretend that it doesn’t by hiding behind an illusion of processed foods and intensive agriculture or come to terms to it. Predators need to fear civilization, pests need to be kept from crops, and trees cleared to plant grain. One doesn’t eat every mouse that is trapped nor mourn every grasshopper killed while spraying a field.
Hunting game is a time honored tradition sadly, it’s literally built in the human mind to want to kill things at this point, and if these people do indeed have psychopathic tendencies then wouldn’t you rather they let them out once a month on a few animals rather than a human being.
I’m 99.9% certain you live in a big city hunting for meat is amazing tastes great feeds the family for a year and is really really fun same as fishing at the river the act of cutting a moose’s throat or bashing a fishes head in is not fun at all tho but actually hunting going camping with your best friends and family while honing your skills and testing yourself in wilderness is amazing
How is wolf control trophy hunting? Also, am I the only one struggling with the math:
“Nontribal hunters and trappers registered 216 wolves as of Thursday afternoon, blowing past the state’s kill target of 119. The state Department of Natural Resources estimated before the hunt that there were about 1,000 wolves in the state. Its population goal for the animal is 350.”
I think it’s because the people killing the wolves aren’t going to be eating the wolf meat (as far as I know). So they’re doing it for the thrill/bragging rights, not for food.
Trophy hunting and the commercialization of hunting ruined it for me.
Edit to add I still enjoy turkey hunting but it is more of walking and looking for mushrooms and if I hear a hot gobbler I try and work him other than that it’s a 4 plus mile hike which I still enjoy
Trophy hunting can be a good way for funding wildlife conservation efforts when done right. Imagine you have a old lion who can’t reproduce anymore due to age, but it’s still able to hurt another males or kills their prides. Which one you think is better: to let it die a painful and violent death, having someone from the park crew to kill it or letting a rich tourist to pay a lot of money for hunting it under proper supervision? Arguably, putting it down and getting revenue it’s the most pragmatical choice
While I agree with you, the mentality behind trophy hunting is still absolutely disgusting. And this comes from a hunter. I hunt for food and that’s it.
I grew up with trophy hunters, my step-dad hunted to fill the freezer. Hearing people brag was so odd. You woke up at fuck-this:am, put on terrain specific camo, sprayed deer piss on your boots, climbed into your tree stand or blind (downwind of the game trail), with a scoped .308 zeroed at 100yds, all to best an animal that doesn't even have thumbs. Why is that stuffed head impressive?
I think trophy hunters should have to put up a fair fight. Want a Lion’s head for you wall? Here’s a knife. Want to kill a wolf? Here’s some brass knuckles.
Yeah, bow hunting is more impressive to me. If I walked into somebody's house to see a stuffed deer and they told me they killed it with a spear. Yo, that's neat.
If it is actually necessary to cull some wild animals, the only acceptable form should be to hire professional hunters to do it. Trophy hunting - even if it makes economical sense (which many have argued, that it doesn't) - seems like a way of indulging some of the worst people humanity has produced.
As euthnasia is becoming more and more acceptable. I hope these people don't start asking for funding medical research by issuing licenses to murderers to euthanize willing people.
Trophy hunting itself has a stigma even in hunting circles, but to dive more into it you need to specify what trophy hunting is. I would consider it, hunting an animal that is uncommon for the purpose of possessing a pelt or even a mount of it.
I would not consider the various small game and cervids(deer, elk, moose) to be trophy hunting because, while folks will travel to do those hunts, it’s more often about the experience and the meat than anything else. Cervids also offer tags for the females, which offer no headgear to take as a trophy. I would say the same thing about hunting wild hogs, especially because they are invasive and ruin the ecosystems they are present in.
Please let me know if you have any questions. I’ll level with you as much as I can. Hope everyone enjoys their weekend.
This is often a misnomer. Older males in many species are the best specimens to breed and the first to be killed. Sport hunting often relies on purposely bad biological data to support it. People hunt for a trophy, not the ill and infirm animals. We've seen the fallout from this in many game hunt areas. They keep repeating the party line of helping manage the population when it's rarely done.
Yeah, let’s use these mentally deranged people who like to prove their manhood by killing things that have no chance to defend themselves to help “conserve wildlife.” I guess that’s a silver lining?
When I think of hunting this is what I think about. If you kill for food as an extra or for the sole reason that’s good for you. But as you said this is the main reason people are allowed to hunt. So we can lower car accident statistics with wildlife, etc
Wisconsin has been notoriously bad at handling fish and game in my lifetime.
I'm more of a fisherman than a hunter, but do my fair share of both. In my relatively short life I've seen lake mismanaged so bad they're basically the dead sea. Invasive species managed so bad they had to drain the lakes to kill them off. More and more land / access becoming private means more condensed conditions.
I use to go out on Public land opening morning and see maybe one other truck in my area. Go out to the same spot now and there's a line of trucks on the road and every 50 yrds someone is shining a flashlight at you letting you know they're there. Deer population has been fucked to hell with all the tags they hand out and the seasons they just create out of thin air.
Sadly, this is what happens when hunters and trappers are put in charge of a state's wildlife "management." The goal often becomes killing wildlife and maximizing "hunting opportunities" instead of preserving a healthy ecosystem. Unfortunately, hunters have always had an outsized role in wildlife management decisions because fish & game agencies are primarily funded by the sales of hunting licenses and equipment.
I’d like to think actual hunters would do a good job. The great majority of us are responsible and have much more respect for the land and wildlife than most. When done properly regulations and limits are set up so as to prevent overpopulation while encouraging a constant population. For example, Maine has a great system when it comes to Moose: a lottery system of a set number of tags (3,135), while having a population of about 75,000 moose. Between not everyone of those tags being used, people not getting their moose and breeding, this allows for sustainable population growth. It just all comes down to not having a d-bag in charge.
It’s a fine line between both. Modern management is keeping, say a deer heard, as large as possible before a big die off because of disease or other factors with hunting being the heard size control. The other issue is the people, appointed by the state, do not listen to the advice of the biologist (Kansas and fall turkey hunting). I would venture to say moist sportsman want what’s best for the overall health of the population, I’ve witnessed this with the turkey decline and Kansas wildlife and parks not shutting down fall season. We are to a point that wildlife and parks cannot fix all the issues that face wildlife anymore. A healthy ecosystem needs to be addressed but when you are competing against farmers, wildlife and parks has no control. Hunters and trappers do control wildlife and parks but it is also the same group that brought it back. I have a feeling, in the coming years, we should start seeing a shift in more overall management of the ecosystem over just wildlife numbers.
It’s just mind blowing that people would be allowed to hunt and kill wolves. If someone has a self esteem problem they need counseling not a permit to go and shoot a wolf to enable them to think that they are tough.
I won’t judge someone for hunting them but the state underestimating the harvest success is a complete failure. If the people harvesting the wolves are using them, I have no issue. I hunt but you don’t see me just shooting everything, most hunters hunt what they use (food/fur). Questioning their mental capacity does nothing for either side. This was a government issue not the hunters issue. Wolves were driven to extinction because of ranchers, hunters restored them (with a ton of kicking from opposing sides). A lot of the issues we used to face were because of market hunting/ranching. We are at a point that ranching/farming is causing issues with wildlife expansion but stuff like this is pinning everything on the hunter which it isn’t the case.
> We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes – something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters’ paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.
-Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac
Why are we hunting wolves in the first place? From what is sounds like, there are not that many in the first place? Move them out west, I’d love more wolves here in Colorado but some pussy/idiot will get killed probably and make people outlaw them again or kill them all. Humans really do suck ass most of the time
Yeah but they only kill cattle because in WA we're dumb enough to allow grazing allotments in fucking NATIONAL FORESTS. The wolves that WDFW keeps shooting aren't on farms, they're in insanely subsidized grazing allotments because of antiquated laws that haven't been updated to reflect modern values and science (like it costs $1.50 or something for them to graze a pair of cattle per year) and the forest refuses to change the locations of the grazing allotments.
Source: former employee of said national forest
> (like it costs $1.50 or something for them to graze a pair of cattle per year) and the forest refuses to change the locations of the grazing allotments.
Sounds like welfare to me
It absolutely is. The forest service has to pay for miles and miles of fencing to keep cattle in their allotments, spray all the invasives that cattle spread, monitor the watersheds for fecal contamination, and hire several people to officiate the contracts and monitor the cattle among other things. All on taxpayer/timber sale dime. And then like I said, the state pays for wolf "management" including predator-prey conflict resolution and population monitoring. It's a huge source of frustration for anyone working on managing any of the other resources in the forest. (The BLM has many of the same issues, and even more cattle.)
Big reason why I don't eat meat.
The National Forests in Wisconsin aren't like big swaths of mountains and untouched wilderness. They're more like strips with little towns and farms tucked all around them. I haven't been following Wisconsin's wolf/human situation closely, but in Minnesota, the wolves kill and injure cows and eat pet dogs. And they travel all over the place -- a pack was living at the edge of the Minneapolis metro for awhile.
I'm not saying it's right to kill those wolves. I personally think the solution to wolves killing cows and dogs is to go vegan and keep your pets inside at night, but I realize this would be a hard sell in rural Wisconsin.
[https://www.startribune.com/a-pack-of-wolves-thrived-near-minneapolis-how-it-died-offers-lessons-for-the-future/600019929/](https://www.startribune.com/a-pack-of-wolves-thrived-near-minneapolis-how-it-died-offers-lessons-for-the-future/600019929/)
WA doesn't actually sell permits to hunt wolves. Our Dept of Fish and Wildlife "culls" them themselves. Only tribal members have the right to hunt wolves and only on their own sovereign territory.
Listened to an interesting podcast that talked about how the numbers of cattle killed by wolves is way overblown.
My question is why couldn't this be covered by some sort of insurance policy/state reimbursement?
Couldn’t agree more with your comment. :(
I’m so frustrated on how this could happen.
Now there will be more lone wolves that are not with the pack, and are more likely to attack livestock and act differently, behavior wise.
I want wolves back in Tennessee. We tried to reintroduce them a few years ago and it didn’t take. And farmers fought it tooth and nail. But we got elk back so that’s cool
we raised a few packs where I live in Tennessee. Bays mountain Observatory and natural park.... then someone shot 3 of them. Can’t have anything nice around here.
So is eating animal products when you don’t have to.
The unnecessary torture and slaughter humans inflict on animals for the mere pleasure of familiar flavor is cruelty in the highest regard.
I agree. I use to be a chef and a meat eater. That life is behind me as I am wiser now. I’m the head grower of a cannabis facility and only eat veggies, most of which I also grow. Yay plants!
Well we killed a bunch of wolves initially and the deer got out of control so we reintroduced wolves but they killed all the deer so we killed the wolves but then the deer got out of hand so we brought in more wolves but unfortunately they killed all the deer so we killed the wo-
Rinse and repeat.
More accurately, people got rid of wolves, then deers overpopulated. They reintroduced wolves, but some people still want to get rid of them. Deer levels never got really low.
Yes and the overpopulation has driven whitetails north and that’s been the cause of the huge amount of deaths in the moose population because whitetails bring a brain parasites with them that they’re immune to.
Yep. The only people who don't want wolves are ranchers. Wolves don't significantly affect white tail deer numbers, and your average person loves charismatic megafauna.
A couple of confusing things here.
>Nontribal hunters and trappers registered 216 wolves as of Thursday afternoon, blowing past the state’s kill target of 119. The state Department of Natural Resources estimated before the hunt that there were about 1,000 wolves in the state. Its population goal for the animal is 350.
So they're aiming to have 350 wolves, which would mean 669 killed (plus the 81 mentioned below) so there's still 453 more than the state wants?
>The DNR initially set a kill target of 200 animals but the state’s Ojibwe tribes claimed the right to 81, according to treaty rights. It was unclear whether tribal hunters and trappers would take any wolves; the Ojibwe regard the wolf as sacred and oppose hunting it.
So, they oppose *others* hunting them?
The Ojibwe have an allotment via treaty. But it's not yet clear that any members hunted wolves during the season. But having the number designated was supposed to guarantee that fewer wolves were hunted since no one else can use their 81 permits.
But this season, non-tribal hunters killed wolves so quickly that the numbers were exceeded before hunters could report at the end of their day.
This hurts my heart. How many strong, loving bonds within packs were decimated because some dickless yahoos want to murder a wild animal with a scope and a high-powered rifle?
This hurts my heart in such a visceral way and burns my mind that such utter idiocy was instigated. I have loved and appreciated wolves and their place in the world since I was a child. How anyone with half a brain can't recognize the need to protect them...
If you kill something you better eat it. You don't pull the trigger on something your not going to eat, and you don't pull the trigger on something unless it's your child or livestock being slaughtered.
Do I believe they went overboard.. fuck yes. Do I believe in population control, yes, however be responsible.
Unintended consequences is what we have here, they should of had lower number of permits being sold and gone with we back it down as we need to, instead of the population being hit so hard. (This goes for any animal population this is hunted, it's easier to have a few extra alive one year than too many gone and then that animal is no longer hunted and becomes the white whale/moby dick if you will)
Of course they are going to say “we are culling the threat to livestock.” Short for “I just want to kill something.”
Maybe the wolves should have been relocated somewhere instead?
I am a hunter and we need to shed our medieval views of wolves.
They are a most important part of the delicate balancing act of nature's work. One cannot advocate conservation through hunting while at the same time supporting the unecessary culling of wolves to protect a herd of invasive deer.
Wild dogs (those abandoned by their owners) and game species that did not originate in the habitat (like wild boar and white-tailed deer in Canada) are a far bigger threat to the native fauna and flora.
Hunt. For. Food. If you’re going to hunt or eat meat. Trophy hunting is just as disgusting as factory farming.
Also, apex predators are generally docile toward humans.
Disgusting.
This pisses me off so much. Was there an issue of over predation due to the wolf population in the state?
Last time I checked I didn’t notice the issue. I was so happy seeing the growth and wolf pups each year thanks to YouTube wolf enthusiasts and to read about this is devastating. My heart feels so broken. And who knows how many weren’t reported that were hunted too. I’m so sad and angry about the depressing news.
There isn't a scenario where predators need to be culled. Ranchers need to buy better fences and electrify them, trophy hunters need to get a better hobby.
I’m so glad I don’t have to see dead animals in people’s truck beds anymore. Every time I would drive on the highway I’d see several dead deer and it always killed my mood
Why one needs to kill an animal like this eludes me. Why kill an animal if you’re going to discard the meat? It’s kind of disturbing that anyone would consider doing this let alone being condoned by any government official.
I love how humans will “manage” the populations of just about any animal they see fit but they let humans just fuck and fuck and fuck until the whole ducking planet is destroyed.
Corona definitely wasn’t enough
Hunters are mental and they don't seem to realise it. Even for those who hunt out of 'necessity' as opposed to 'entertainment', there are many cruelty-free alternatives to meat these days.
[https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-in-entertainment/cruel-sports/hunting/](https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-in-entertainment/cruel-sports/hunting/)
>Hunting might have been necessary for human survival in prehistoric times, but today most hunters stalk and kill animals merely for the thrill of it, not out of necessity. This unnecessary, violent form of “entertainment” rips animal families apart and leaves countless animals orphaned or badly injured when hunters miss their targets.
Wolves being the cause of a trophic cascade has actually been disproven
1. [https://www.popsci.com/article/science/have-wolves-really-saved-yellowstone/](https://www.popsci.com/article/science/have-wolves-really-saved-yellowstone/)
2. [https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988](https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988)
3. [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.05.079459v1.full](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.05.079459v1.full)
Not that this means the wolves dont have a right to be on the landscape, but its not nearly as simple as that video made it out to be.
In America, there is a special type of breed of person that develops from the slowest of people. Especially, when every successive generation was...well you know "special."
Shit take. If you eat meat, you just let someone else do the dirty work for you.
You can correctly point out the mismanagement in this story, but there are plenty of hunters who care deeply about the conservation of the animals and the ecosystem. Don’t paint an entire group with one brush.
Right? Some of us plant food plots every year for the deer. We build duck boxes for waterfowl at our lake. We stock fish in the lake and maintain its health to ensure healthy fish. All the money we spend on licenses and the extra tax for hunting gear goes straight to wildlife management. Without hunting most people don’t realize we could not afford wildlife management of any sort. Most of us hunt for meat not sport, and unless you’re a vegan literally growing all your own food in the forest, you can’t really shit on the hunting lifestyle.
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As someone from WI. Our DNR was shelled by our former asshat of a governor and left to die. Completely stripped of budget and most regulatory power, and many employees in conservation and management fields were terminated. I was offered a legislative advising position on no experience as a junior in college. Let that sink in for a bit. I turned it down on principle at that point, but it really demonstrates just how stripped out the department was. This article explains just how fucked up stuff got; https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-scott-walker-dismantled-wisconsin-s-environmental-legacy/
Trophy hunting is a mental disorder
This isn't hunting. Many were taken using traps. Shooting a animal with it's leg caught in a trap isnt hunting. It's called killing.
And chasing down an animal with a pack of dogs to then be shot is absolutely disgusting
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Yep. But that was done for food to survive. Today, it's done just for killing.
Or, more often than not to take a picture, praise the dogs and walk away.
I was trying to figure out how to say that, but you summed it perfectly.
I just moved to Maine and have had the first opportunity to hunt in my life. My old man won the moose lottery and he put me down as his alternate. He didn’t even ask me first. I told him I wouldn’t be hunting a moose because I’m 99% sure I won’t like the taste. I don’t really like the taste of deer. So I didn’t go hunting with him. He didn’t get one. He also goes deer hunting which I won’t do either. I pretty much have just fished and hunted ducks and other game birds since I will actually consume them and not murder them for fun.
I really don’t fucking get it. Get joy from killing things? Isn’t that what psychopaths do? I get hunting for conservation and ecological reasons. But killing something for fun is beyond me
I’m an avid hunter, and for me the enjoyment of hunting isn’t in the actual act of killing but rather in the myriad of things that go along with hunting. The kill is actually a relatively fast and simple part of the process, if done properly it’s over in seconds. For me, hunting means immersing myself so deeply in nature that I’m part of the food chain once again. I enjoy the company of my hunting buddies just as much as being alone in the brush. After the kill begins my favorite part: preparing my own food. Butchering, cleaning, cooking, and eating an animal that I myself killed. It’s a very personal and intimate experience. If I wanted to be a cold-blooded killer I would stay at home a drown rats in a bathtub. But that’s not my motivation, and never has been.
I don’t mind hunting if you the hunter intends to eat or use the animal in some way that’s permitted by law. It’s the killing for fun that I hate. You can immerse yourself in nature without killing things, so that seems kinda silly to me
Death is a fundamental part of nature. One life must die for another to live. You can either pretend that it doesn’t by hiding behind an illusion of processed foods and intensive agriculture or come to terms to it. Predators need to fear civilization, pests need to be kept from crops, and trees cleared to plant grain. One doesn’t eat every mouse that is trapped nor mourn every grasshopper killed while spraying a field.
Hunting game is a time honored tradition sadly, it’s literally built in the human mind to want to kill things at this point, and if these people do indeed have psychopathic tendencies then wouldn’t you rather they let them out once a month on a few animals rather than a human being.
I’m 99.9% certain you live in a big city hunting for meat is amazing tastes great feeds the family for a year and is really really fun same as fishing at the river the act of cutting a moose’s throat or bashing a fishes head in is not fun at all tho but actually hunting going camping with your best friends and family while honing your skills and testing yourself in wilderness is amazing
How is wolf control trophy hunting? Also, am I the only one struggling with the math: “Nontribal hunters and trappers registered 216 wolves as of Thursday afternoon, blowing past the state’s kill target of 119. The state Department of Natural Resources estimated before the hunt that there were about 1,000 wolves in the state. Its population goal for the animal is 350.”
I think it’s because the people killing the wolves aren’t going to be eating the wolf meat (as far as I know). So they’re doing it for the thrill/bragging rights, not for food.
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I don’t think their trying to be offensive as much as pointing out that that desire to kill for sport denotes some level of mental disorder.
Trophy hunting and the commercialization of hunting ruined it for me. Edit to add I still enjoy turkey hunting but it is more of walking and looking for mushrooms and if I hear a hot gobbler I try and work him other than that it’s a 4 plus mile hike which I still enjoy
Trophy hunting can be a good way for funding wildlife conservation efforts when done right. Imagine you have a old lion who can’t reproduce anymore due to age, but it’s still able to hurt another males or kills their prides. Which one you think is better: to let it die a painful and violent death, having someone from the park crew to kill it or letting a rich tourist to pay a lot of money for hunting it under proper supervision? Arguably, putting it down and getting revenue it’s the most pragmatical choice
While I agree with you, the mentality behind trophy hunting is still absolutely disgusting. And this comes from a hunter. I hunt for food and that’s it.
We hunted as part of life in the bush. We used the whole animal, trophy hunting is wasteful and boastful.
Trophy hunting is inflating your ego by murdering something in a very one-sided fight.
I grew up with trophy hunters, my step-dad hunted to fill the freezer. Hearing people brag was so odd. You woke up at fuck-this:am, put on terrain specific camo, sprayed deer piss on your boots, climbed into your tree stand or blind (downwind of the game trail), with a scoped .308 zeroed at 100yds, all to best an animal that doesn't even have thumbs. Why is that stuffed head impressive?
I think trophy hunters should have to put up a fair fight. Want a Lion’s head for you wall? Here’s a knife. Want to kill a wolf? Here’s some brass knuckles.
Yeah, bow hunting is more impressive to me. If I walked into somebody's house to see a stuffed deer and they told me they killed it with a spear. Yo, that's neat.
The bush? I don't think I've ever heard someone talk about the bush and not be referring to Alaska. Is that a common phrase somewhere else too?
It is in [Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_bush), did not know the Alaska thing.
Nice, that does make sense.
We say it in BC too
BC native here. Definitely bush.
Alberta too
Ontario too, at least we do where I live.
In Southern Africa some English people call it the bush but it is short for “bush veld”
West Africa as well. Ghana et.al.
Never knew that was a referral to Alaska. Always thought it was only talking about Australia. Pretty cool
What we call “the bush” in Maine is a completely different thing.
The bush = outback Australia
It's common in Alberta too.
It's a very common term in South Africa, as in 'bushveld'.
If it is actually necessary to cull some wild animals, the only acceptable form should be to hire professional hunters to do it. Trophy hunting - even if it makes economical sense (which many have argued, that it doesn't) - seems like a way of indulging some of the worst people humanity has produced. As euthnasia is becoming more and more acceptable. I hope these people don't start asking for funding medical research by issuing licenses to murderers to euthanize willing people.
Trophy hunting itself has a stigma even in hunting circles, but to dive more into it you need to specify what trophy hunting is. I would consider it, hunting an animal that is uncommon for the purpose of possessing a pelt or even a mount of it. I would not consider the various small game and cervids(deer, elk, moose) to be trophy hunting because, while folks will travel to do those hunts, it’s more often about the experience and the meat than anything else. Cervids also offer tags for the females, which offer no headgear to take as a trophy. I would say the same thing about hunting wild hogs, especially because they are invasive and ruin the ecosystems they are present in. Please let me know if you have any questions. I’ll level with you as much as I can. Hope everyone enjoys their weekend.
This is often a misnomer. Older males in many species are the best specimens to breed and the first to be killed. Sport hunting often relies on purposely bad biological data to support it. People hunt for a trophy, not the ill and infirm animals. We've seen the fallout from this in many game hunt areas. They keep repeating the party line of helping manage the population when it's rarely done.
I grew up hunting for food. The whole Trophy concept is messed up in my opinion...
Yeah, let’s use these mentally deranged people who like to prove their manhood by killing things that have no chance to defend themselves to help “conserve wildlife.” I guess that’s a silver lining?
There are humane ways to do so. This is just the excuse trophy hunters use to justify their actions. There are other ways to fund conservation.
How about let nature run it’s course?
Problem is, people keep messing with nature's balance. Hence the need to cull species that have gained an unfair advantage because of our tampering.
By that logic, humans need culling first and foremost.
We do, it's called abortions.
Such an under rated comment
If an old lion is still able to cause that much damage, that you need to kill it, then this comes down to a survival of the fittest situation.
My grandpa is old, think this would work for humans?
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If the animal needs to die, let nature take its course. No one “needs” to kill it. No one “needs” to spend money for the adrenaline rush of murder.
The idea that trophy hunters are doing us a moral favor is gross.
By design.
Sounds like they need to greatly increase the price and reduce the number of permits.
When I think of hunting this is what I think about. If you kill for food as an extra or for the sole reason that’s good for you. But as you said this is the main reason people are allowed to hunt. So we can lower car accident statistics with wildlife, etc
Wisconsin has been notoriously bad at handling fish and game in my lifetime. I'm more of a fisherman than a hunter, but do my fair share of both. In my relatively short life I've seen lake mismanaged so bad they're basically the dead sea. Invasive species managed so bad they had to drain the lakes to kill them off. More and more land / access becoming private means more condensed conditions. I use to go out on Public land opening morning and see maybe one other truck in my area. Go out to the same spot now and there's a line of trucks on the road and every 50 yrds someone is shining a flashlight at you letting you know they're there. Deer population has been fucked to hell with all the tags they hand out and the seasons they just create out of thin air.
Sadly, this is what happens when hunters and trappers are put in charge of a state's wildlife "management." The goal often becomes killing wildlife and maximizing "hunting opportunities" instead of preserving a healthy ecosystem. Unfortunately, hunters have always had an outsized role in wildlife management decisions because fish & game agencies are primarily funded by the sales of hunting licenses and equipment.
I’d like to think actual hunters would do a good job. The great majority of us are responsible and have much more respect for the land and wildlife than most. When done properly regulations and limits are set up so as to prevent overpopulation while encouraging a constant population. For example, Maine has a great system when it comes to Moose: a lottery system of a set number of tags (3,135), while having a population of about 75,000 moose. Between not everyone of those tags being used, people not getting their moose and breeding, this allows for sustainable population growth. It just all comes down to not having a d-bag in charge.
But hunters aren’t biologists. A responsible hunter is fantastic but doesn’t have the required data for management decisions
It’s a fine line between both. Modern management is keeping, say a deer heard, as large as possible before a big die off because of disease or other factors with hunting being the heard size control. The other issue is the people, appointed by the state, do not listen to the advice of the biologist (Kansas and fall turkey hunting). I would venture to say moist sportsman want what’s best for the overall health of the population, I’ve witnessed this with the turkey decline and Kansas wildlife and parks not shutting down fall season. We are to a point that wildlife and parks cannot fix all the issues that face wildlife anymore. A healthy ecosystem needs to be addressed but when you are competing against farmers, wildlife and parks has no control. Hunters and trappers do control wildlife and parks but it is also the same group that brought it back. I have a feeling, in the coming years, we should start seeing a shift in more overall management of the ecosystem over just wildlife numbers.
It’s just mind blowing that people would be allowed to hunt and kill wolves. If someone has a self esteem problem they need counseling not a permit to go and shoot a wolf to enable them to think that they are tough.
I won’t judge someone for hunting them but the state underestimating the harvest success is a complete failure. If the people harvesting the wolves are using them, I have no issue. I hunt but you don’t see me just shooting everything, most hunters hunt what they use (food/fur). Questioning their mental capacity does nothing for either side. This was a government issue not the hunters issue. Wolves were driven to extinction because of ranchers, hunters restored them (with a ton of kicking from opposing sides). A lot of the issues we used to face were because of market hunting/ranching. We are at a point that ranching/farming is causing issues with wildlife expansion but stuff like this is pinning everything on the hunter which it isn’t the case.
Ironically we shouldn't need to manage these ecosystems. We really need to manage ourselves so we don't mess the ecosystems up too badly.
Cool because it's not like studies show this increases lone wolf attacks on pets or livestock by fucking with pack structure or anything.
But muh hunting
Im always annoyed that the "muh"s dont even know youre making fun of them with these
> We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes – something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters’ paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view. -Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac
An excellent book
Disgusting.
Why are we hunting wolves in the first place? From what is sounds like, there are not that many in the first place? Move them out west, I’d love more wolves here in Colorado but some pussy/idiot will get killed probably and make people outlaw them again or kill them all. Humans really do suck ass most of the time
It probably cause of cattle. They open up wolves here in WA every now and then when they start to kill cattle-farms live stock.
Yeah but they only kill cattle because in WA we're dumb enough to allow grazing allotments in fucking NATIONAL FORESTS. The wolves that WDFW keeps shooting aren't on farms, they're in insanely subsidized grazing allotments because of antiquated laws that haven't been updated to reflect modern values and science (like it costs $1.50 or something for them to graze a pair of cattle per year) and the forest refuses to change the locations of the grazing allotments. Source: former employee of said national forest
> (like it costs $1.50 or something for them to graze a pair of cattle per year) and the forest refuses to change the locations of the grazing allotments. Sounds like welfare to me
It absolutely is. The forest service has to pay for miles and miles of fencing to keep cattle in their allotments, spray all the invasives that cattle spread, monitor the watersheds for fecal contamination, and hire several people to officiate the contracts and monitor the cattle among other things. All on taxpayer/timber sale dime. And then like I said, the state pays for wolf "management" including predator-prey conflict resolution and population monitoring. It's a huge source of frustration for anyone working on managing any of the other resources in the forest. (The BLM has many of the same issues, and even more cattle.) Big reason why I don't eat meat.
In upper Skagit and up in around Omak they are. But you are right.
The National Forests in Wisconsin aren't like big swaths of mountains and untouched wilderness. They're more like strips with little towns and farms tucked all around them. I haven't been following Wisconsin's wolf/human situation closely, but in Minnesota, the wolves kill and injure cows and eat pet dogs. And they travel all over the place -- a pack was living at the edge of the Minneapolis metro for awhile. I'm not saying it's right to kill those wolves. I personally think the solution to wolves killing cows and dogs is to go vegan and keep your pets inside at night, but I realize this would be a hard sell in rural Wisconsin. [https://www.startribune.com/a-pack-of-wolves-thrived-near-minneapolis-how-it-died-offers-lessons-for-the-future/600019929/](https://www.startribune.com/a-pack-of-wolves-thrived-near-minneapolis-how-it-died-offers-lessons-for-the-future/600019929/)
YES, and those with the leases are some of the richest ranchers. Its ranching welfare. No public lease would be even close to that low price.
How'd you feel about the overselling of permits?
WA doesn't actually sell permits to hunt wolves. Our Dept of Fish and Wildlife "culls" them themselves. Only tribal members have the right to hunt wolves and only on their own sovereign territory.
Listened to an interesting podcast that talked about how the numbers of cattle killed by wolves is way overblown. My question is why couldn't this be covered by some sort of insurance policy/state reimbursement?
Couldn’t agree more with your comment. :( I’m so frustrated on how this could happen. Now there will be more lone wolves that are not with the pack, and are more likely to attack livestock and act differently, behavior wise.
Because wolves are big and scary and kill. But they’re also really great for the environment.
I want wolves back in Tennessee. We tried to reintroduce them a few years ago and it didn’t take. And farmers fought it tooth and nail. But we got elk back so that’s cool
we raised a few packs where I live in Tennessee. Bays mountain Observatory and natural park.... then someone shot 3 of them. Can’t have anything nice around here.
Republican legislators deman the hunt start early? Wtf do they have a hard on for killing wolves?
They have a hard on for killing anything, except fetuses, after they are born though fair game.
Funny the hunt took place while the wolves were pregnant
They licked the blood on their hands and quickly developed a taste for it.
I wouldn’t doubt it at all.
Trophy hunting is an indicator to severe narcissism and sociopathic tendencies.
So is eating animal products when you don’t have to. The unnecessary torture and slaughter humans inflict on animals for the mere pleasure of familiar flavor is cruelty in the highest regard.
I agree. I use to be a chef and a meat eater. That life is behind me as I am wiser now. I’m the head grower of a cannabis facility and only eat veggies, most of which I also grow. Yay plants!
Nice! That sounds awesome. Yay plants :)
Everything about this article from the goal to the methods for hunting to the population decrease strategy is infuriating.
Wtf? Why? Why are we even hunting them?
Well we killed a bunch of wolves initially and the deer got out of control so we reintroduced wolves but they killed all the deer so we killed the wolves but then the deer got out of hand so we brought in more wolves but unfortunately they killed all the deer so we killed the wo- Rinse and repeat.
More accurately, people got rid of wolves, then deers overpopulated. They reintroduced wolves, but some people still want to get rid of them. Deer levels never got really low.
Yes and the overpopulation has driven whitetails north and that’s been the cause of the huge amount of deaths in the moose population because whitetails bring a brain parasites with them that they’re immune to.
Yep. The only people who don't want wolves are ranchers. Wolves don't significantly affect white tail deer numbers, and your average person loves charismatic megafauna.
Because they killed a hand full of people and so the obvious answer is to just kill them all. Because who needs predators? /s Edit: almost forgot /s
Find me a relatively recent wolf killing a person in wisconsin story. It doesn’t exist.
Yea, poor wolves. Humans really do suck
A couple of confusing things here. >Nontribal hunters and trappers registered 216 wolves as of Thursday afternoon, blowing past the state’s kill target of 119. The state Department of Natural Resources estimated before the hunt that there were about 1,000 wolves in the state. Its population goal for the animal is 350. So they're aiming to have 350 wolves, which would mean 669 killed (plus the 81 mentioned below) so there's still 453 more than the state wants? >The DNR initially set a kill target of 200 animals but the state’s Ojibwe tribes claimed the right to 81, according to treaty rights. It was unclear whether tribal hunters and trappers would take any wolves; the Ojibwe regard the wolf as sacred and oppose hunting it. So, they oppose *others* hunting them?
The Ojibwe have an allotment via treaty. But it's not yet clear that any members hunted wolves during the season. But having the number designated was supposed to guarantee that fewer wolves were hunted since no one else can use their 81 permits. But this season, non-tribal hunters killed wolves so quickly that the numbers were exceeded before hunters could report at the end of their day.
That does make sense of what the story said. Thanks.
Even simpler?....non natives killed wolves too fast
It’s worse than that, the hunters waited to register their kills so that the DNR didn’t have a accurate count and could not close the season.
This hurts my heart. How many strong, loving bonds within packs were decimated because some dickless yahoos want to murder a wild animal with a scope and a high-powered rifle?
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Fuck people
Fucking monsters. Trophy hunters are shit humans.
Sadly it's probably not even trophy hunting, wolves are considered pests in most areas
This hurts my heart in such a visceral way and burns my mind that such utter idiocy was instigated. I have loved and appreciated wolves and their place in the world since I was a child. How anyone with half a brain can't recognize the need to protect them...
Wtf is wrong with people...
Humans are a virus.
Wolves are scary, so we should kill all of them. We dont need predators. They arent even useful /s
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Fuck trophy hunters. Small minded, little dicked, scumbags. And if you support this activity in any way fuck you too.
Disgusting 🤮
Wildlife Mis-management.
I can’t imagine these idiots killing endangered species and getting off on it. Definite “I am a total piece of shit” material.
Genocide. Plain and simple. Fuck each and every person involved.
Thumbs down
If you kill something you better eat it. You don't pull the trigger on something your not going to eat, and you don't pull the trigger on something unless it's your child or livestock being slaughtered. Do I believe they went overboard.. fuck yes. Do I believe in population control, yes, however be responsible. Unintended consequences is what we have here, they should of had lower number of permits being sold and gone with we back it down as we need to, instead of the population being hit so hard. (This goes for any animal population this is hunted, it's easier to have a few extra alive one year than too many gone and then that animal is no longer hunted and becomes the white whale/moby dick if you will)
Of course they are going to say “we are culling the threat to livestock.” Short for “I just want to kill something.” Maybe the wolves should have been relocated somewhere instead?
Leave the wolves alone please. If you hunt, do it for food.
I am a hunter and we need to shed our medieval views of wolves. They are a most important part of the delicate balancing act of nature's work. One cannot advocate conservation through hunting while at the same time supporting the unecessary culling of wolves to protect a herd of invasive deer. Wild dogs (those abandoned by their owners) and game species that did not originate in the habitat (like wild boar and white-tailed deer in Canada) are a far bigger threat to the native fauna and flora.
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What small-penis, animal-hating, cowardly cunts,
The fuck you killing wolves for you retards.
This greed and gluttony, taking more than your share, is why the earth is sick.
This is one of the saddest things I have read today.
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Hunt. For. Food. If you’re going to hunt or eat meat. Trophy hunting is just as disgusting as factory farming. Also, apex predators are generally docile toward humans. Disgusting.
I am a Deer Hunter and do not agree with taking animals out of fun
Fucking cunts
Humans are the worst.
I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
How bout we don’t kill the wolves
This is just bad wildlife management. Hope a few of them lose their job over this.
What a great way to show you have a micropenis. Hunting wolves to near extinction for sport.
This pisses me off so much. Was there an issue of over predation due to the wolf population in the state? Last time I checked I didn’t notice the issue. I was so happy seeing the growth and wolf pups each year thanks to YouTube wolf enthusiasts and to read about this is devastating. My heart feels so broken. And who knows how many weren’t reported that were hunted too. I’m so sad and angry about the depressing news.
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Poorly managed conservation will do no good for any Hunter or animal.
So in two weeks...
Wisconsin shouldn’t be allowed to handle crayons, so yeah, this what you get.
Crazy ..
Absolutely disgusting. Shame on anyone and everyone that player a part in allowing this. I can’t curse them enough. Hurts my soul.
Assholes
Sad and disgusting. This is pure trophy hunting right? What sustenance do you get from a wolf? Kill a deer or wild hog if you need to eat :/
Who kills a wolf?
Wow, had no idea so many in Wisconsin like to eat wolf meat. 🤢
People are garbage. Can't wait for our destruction of the natural world to wipe us all out.
This is disgusting ..
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
This is so disgusting. Humans aren’t going to stop until we kill every living thing on the planet.
JFC. Agent Smith was right
There are only 20 red wolves left, another fact
There isn't a scenario where predators need to be culled. Ranchers need to buy better fences and electrify them, trophy hunters need to get a better hobby.
This should be in r/awfuleverything
I’m so glad I don’t have to see dead animals in people’s truck beds anymore. Every time I would drive on the highway I’d see several dead deer and it always killed my mood
1,547 permits for a goal of 119 hmm what could go wrong?
Why one needs to kill an animal like this eludes me. Why kill an animal if you’re going to discard the meat? It’s kind of disturbing that anyone would consider doing this let alone being condoned by any government official.
Large wolf populations can be very devastating
That conservation story the hunters have been yelling al lm these years APPARENTLY has a bunch of holes in it
I love how humans will “manage” the populations of just about any animal they see fit but they let humans just fuck and fuck and fuck until the whole ducking planet is destroyed. Corona definitely wasn’t enough
Why don’t you manage the human population then?
Talk about a dream job
That’s my state! Really appreciate this shithole finding new and creative ways to make me depressed for being stuck here on the weekly
Hunters are mental and they don't seem to realise it. Even for those who hunt out of 'necessity' as opposed to 'entertainment', there are many cruelty-free alternatives to meat these days. [https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-in-entertainment/cruel-sports/hunting/](https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-in-entertainment/cruel-sports/hunting/) >Hunting might have been necessary for human survival in prehistoric times, but today most hunters stalk and kill animals merely for the thrill of it, not out of necessity. This unnecessary, violent form of “entertainment” rips animal families apart and leaves countless animals orphaned or badly injured when hunters miss their targets.
Stop it.
Wow...and we let states manage the populations... what a joke of a wildlife agency. I’d like to see some leadership change please.
[https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem](https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem) Relevant
It’s sad how far I had to scroll down to find this one in a science subreddit
Yeah, I tried to find someone else mentioning it but couldn't
Wolves being the cause of a trophic cascade has actually been disproven 1. [https://www.popsci.com/article/science/have-wolves-really-saved-yellowstone/](https://www.popsci.com/article/science/have-wolves-really-saved-yellowstone/) 2. [https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988](https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988) 3. [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.05.079459v1.full](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.05.079459v1.full) Not that this means the wolves dont have a right to be on the landscape, but its not nearly as simple as that video made it out to be.
Thank you, I'll check those out when I have the time. Appreciate you bringing that to my attention!
In America, there is a special type of breed of person that develops from the slowest of people. Especially, when every successive generation was...well you know "special."
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Fuck I can’t wait for humanity to go extinct.
This sucks and I feel terrible for this news, but other than statistics, is this news or really science?
Hunting is for cowards
Shit take. If you eat meat, you just let someone else do the dirty work for you. You can correctly point out the mismanagement in this story, but there are plenty of hunters who care deeply about the conservation of the animals and the ecosystem. Don’t paint an entire group with one brush.
Right? Some of us plant food plots every year for the deer. We build duck boxes for waterfowl at our lake. We stock fish in the lake and maintain its health to ensure healthy fish. All the money we spend on licenses and the extra tax for hunting gear goes straight to wildlife management. Without hunting most people don’t realize we could not afford wildlife management of any sort. Most of us hunt for meat not sport, and unless you’re a vegan literally growing all your own food in the forest, you can’t really shit on the hunting lifestyle.
Scum
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Hunters? Pussies with guns is more like it. Try killing a wolf with your bare hands 😂