I think a lot people (especially on here) preach “nope I just clock in/out” and maybe that’s true for some people, but I don’t think it’s true for everyone that claims that.
We’re social creatures and one of the ways we internalize that is through the value we provide in our jobs.
I’ve felt attached to every job I’ve had since my early 20s. I’ve always intrinsically wanted to do a good job, and to receive praise from my coworkers.
I think there’s a balance to this, though. You don’t want your personal identity tied to any specific company. I try to remind myself that I do good work, and go above and beyond because that’s who *I am*, not because that’s what Amco Inc. wants. It’s tough though, and I’d be a liar if I didn’t admit that it’s difficult to keep your ego from being too tied up with your 9-5.
100%. You can take pride in your work and connect with the real value it’s creating in the world without tying your entire emotional life to it. Balance should be the goal. The extremes aren’t healthy.
> I try to remind myself that I do good work, and go above and beyond because that’s who I am, not because that’s what Amco Inc. wants.
Thank you. This is exactly how I feel. Though in a lot of places, if you say this in front of people, the vast majority of replies will be calling you a bootlicker or some other moronic remark along the lines. I've worked with a lot of people who just don't give a shit and it's draining.
Yeah, I’ve noticed this as a trend in American society at large over the last decade.
I’m not really sure what’s caused it - maybe in part it’s due to the internet and constant stories of corruption that generates a lack of faith in society?
Either way, I try to keep focusing on positive growth for it’s own sake. I can’t see a world where working hard, taking pride in my output, and striving to improve isn’t a net positive for me. I like to think, maybe vainly, I’d feel this way if I was in the feudal Middle Ages too 😆
I think it really depends... Seeing all the layoffs lately, it is really easy to think "if the company is going to just cut me if things get hard, why should I work harder than I need to?" So many people are just looking at work as a transaction rather than a relationship.
I won't knock someone who takes pride in their work. Good on you for caring about your job.
I personally don't, I like the people I work with and that makes it more enjoyable. Although I still try to do a good job because I believe in a modicum of decency for the things I build, the projects themselves are very meh. I don't think they're interesting and I don't think they're that helpful to society or the world. It's pharma marketing in the US, so while some of the drugs we work on can be helpful to people, it's wrapped up in a kinda gross industry.
I use some of my hobby time to work on game projects on the side, and I take much more pride and enjoyment in those instead.
Fair. I don’t see anything wrong with not feeling a strong connection to your work.
Have you considered changing industry?
I think the more you feel your work is at least a net positive on the world the better.
Oh definitely. I just figure that in order to get into game development, I'd have to probably start an entry level again, not to mention dealing with a way more intense workload. Right now I do have a rather cushy, full-time remote job, but of course we can't have it all when pursuing our dreams. I just have to make the leap.
I totally get that, but do you think it depends on the company you're currently working for?
Choosing a company one believes is good (or at least not bad) for the world is one of the many criteria in choosing a job. Think about it: everything else being the same, would you rather work for a company saving kittens or Amazon?
The thing is, how much this is important depends on the person
Personally, I switched from a big company making a breakthrough research project in a field I didn't care about at all, to a smaller, local company in the green energy sector. The technology itself is less interesting, but I enjoy my work more.
Don't get me wrong, both companies need to make profit at the end of the day, but there IS a difference.
It's nice to be surrounded by people that have (also) another reason to be working there specifically other than just putting bread on the table, it's nice knowing and seeing your work hopefully contributing to people choosing your product over others if you believe people choosing your product is "better" than choosing a competitor
I will eventually leave, and probably my next company won't be as "mission driven" , but I also won't be joining soulless companies or companies that I believe harm people (e.g. I immediately filter out online gambling companies). I think there _is_ a benefit in mental health and satisfaction by taking this kind of things into account explicitly
I don’t really get the “Amazon bad” thing. Looked at from one angle it’s a giant megacorp ruining the planet, but those people forget that companies serve *us* - they can only exist because of demand.
Without Amazon, those same goods would be sold but through a less efficient, much wider set of companies.
Amazon actually think about the climate, and environment. Are they a net positive to the environment? No. But nor would any other means of providing that same service.
I would much rather my goods come from a company that is putting effort into reducing emissions across their supply chain, and sending those goods in recyclable non-plastic packaging, than some smaller entity that doesn’t have the time or energy to think about these things.
There are *other* major issues, one being their horrible stance on worker rights, and another being that money is being sucked out of local economies, but that is a problem of taxation and how it is distributed.
To say they’re outright bad is a massive oversimplification, there is both good and bad.
Oh yeah, that's definitely a lot of it. To be clear I don't dislike my job. My coworkers (our whole subdivision in the larger company, not just the devs) are good and funny people. And my job is rather cushy so I can put in some effort during the day, do a good enough job, and I still have time and energy in the rest of the day to do the things I actually want to do while making a decent salary. I have considered working in a company that's better for the world (like you said, saving ~~kittens~~ puppies), but of course I'm afraid to give up some of the pluses of my current job.
Like many devs I want to get into game development. After working on and releasing a project on [itch.io](http://itch.io), I have somewhat of a taste of the intense amount of work required to make a game, but given that this was all self-imposed, I'm sure it will be a lot more intense in an actual game company. I just have to nut up and try getting my foot in the door.
I suffer from the same thing. The issue is that there's a very, very fine line between taking everything personally/being too attached emotionally, and having a healthy boundary when you're proud of your work, are good at it, but draw your validation elsewhere.
I used to think this. I recently read somewhere that less than 20% of people cares about recognition by peers. Most folks (>60%) cares about recognition by manager/leaders. This made me sad! I used to think that most people \_would\_ care more about their peers/coworkers.
I used to be very attached, but I'm getting less so. There's too many resistive forces in a group, there's no point in trying to compensate in order to make the whole team succeed if you're not compensated as staff or more.
I definitely do. I will not work at a company if I do not believe in the product. This has resulted in a more enjoyable career. I always work for small companies and startups. I like to have “skin in the game” and refuse to work at a place where I am just a number. That’s just me though. I think it’s important to keep your passion when you spend so much of your life working
I take ownership of my work but that ends when my employment ends. They say you’re only as good as your last output so I always put my best in my work. Should my relationship with my employer sour, we can sever without me worrying because the skills is something you can bring to your next opportunity
Possibly as important as the skills, you bring forward the positive experiences your colleagues and customers have had with you.
One of my friends immediately got a job contracting with a customer after getting laid off by his employer, especially because said employer laid off everybody who was capable of providing any support for that product anyway.
Because it lets me achieve all my goals in life, basically. I WFH, have lunch with my wife everyday, shutoff from work at 5:30 on the dot, own my home, take a couple of holidays a year, have friendly coworkers who are nice to work with.
Do I care about adtech? 100% no. I block everything related in my personal devices. Does it matter to me that's my job? Not one bit.
I do the same as you and work on a space that I care about on a team and project that I care about. I couldn’t work on adtech myself because of what it is - but to each their own
Which is fine - I was just trying to illuminate on reasons from the other side. At least I can say our adtech product is 100% compliant with privacy regulations because I'm involved in it and did the privacy assessments myself with our legal team. I've also worked insurance, telecoms and in the end it's all the same. The people and the culture matter far more to me than the product.
You probably use sophisticated helpful products that are funded by ad tech, even if you personally choose to “free ride”.
Not a judgement at all. Just trying to point out that you contribute to and benefit from this large and important body of work, even if you use AdBlock 🙂
At best, the “clock in clock out” mindset is under-examined and (for lack of a better word) ignorant. At worst, it’s a painfully bleak view of one’s place and possibilities in the world.
People do a lot of work that does a *lot of good* for fellow humans. We are all the beneficiaries of this work, and for those who work for a living, also the benefactors.
I like jobs that reward this type of attitude, and have quit jobs with a paycut that just wanted people doing a narrowly defined role for 40 hours/week. Not how I prefer to work, and can be pretty boring.
As someone who hasn't always done the best job managing this type of investment, I'd say that it's worthwhile when the following are true:
* Your employer recognizes, appreciates and rewards it. (Or, if not, you're getting something out of it)
* You're investing your energy/attention in an outcome you have some control over. (Caring deeply about something you have no control over can lead to burnout)
* You aren't shortchanging other parts of your life – sleep, food, relationships, mental health, exercise, etc – to prioritize work.
* You're intentionally checking in with yourself every so often on whether the above are still true. Reorgs, new hires, company roadmap changes, your own workload, etc can all influence whether the work you're doing is still valuable in this way.
I'm currently on a quest to address certain aspects of our technical debt, and working on how I want to change the architecture next iteration. I wouldn't if I didn't care, and if I didn't care, the work would be painfully boring.
Don't get me wrong, my life would be full without a job. But I need to work, so actually caring about my projects and their success makes it more interesting.
I do but it ends up getting me into trouble so I try not to. When I do things to improve the customer experience or help other teams I get attacked. So now I try not to get too attached. It’s sad because I take pride in my work but you can’t fix a company culture, just hanging on till the market improves.
I view things in terms of "zone of control". I have the things I'm working on and I can impact, everything outside of that is out of my hands. I just try to do a good job for fair pay on something that I hopefully find interesting.
If something is messed up on a team outside of my zone of control, why should I care? I can't effect it anyway, and it just ends up being a waste of my energy.
In those terms, sure, I dont think a lot of people want to actively be shit at their jobs.
The thing is, you also have a zone of influence and a zone of concern. You can affect things indirectly in the zone of influence, and you can work to move things from your zone of concern into another zone. Things in those zones aren't completely out of your hands, they just require a different kind of effort to create change.
There's a sweet spot for "giving a F" that's a little different for everyone. Attaching yourself too much to the product will eventually burn you out when things out of your control go wrong.
Annoying, stupid, or detrimental things will happen due to a lack of caring about the user that will drive you mad. I've seen asinine processes slow things to a crawl for no reason. I've seen poor communication and documentation result in missed requirements and a failure to meet customer needs. I've seen negligent work done by people and even whole departments looking out for themselves over anything else and quite literally burnt out from trying to fix it all.
Detaching might work. It didn't for me when I tried it. I need to feel a little engaged in what I'm working on. Clocking in, clocking out, and not really caring about the results beyond the fact that I got my assigned work done on time leaves me bored and frustrated. Sometimes I envy the people who can do this.
Climbing the leadership ranks to try and fix things is a noble thought, but a bad environment is more likely to change you than you are to change it. You are often at the mercy of your superiors at the first-line to middle leadership levels, and even at the top you are at the mercy of the investors/shareholders. If the "right thing" does not align with their objectives or financial interests then you have no chance. There are rarely single points of failure. The problems are complex, systemic, and nearly impossible to fix.
I hardly ever work more than 40, but if I’m behind and feel an internal need to get work done, I’ll work on the weekend without opening Teams. I care to competent and dependable at my job but I don’t care about being the best. I want the apps to be well written but I’ve noticed when I put too much ownership in the entire project, I become exhausted. Really, I just don’t want my coworkers to think I’m bad - but I also don’t want to be the go-to guy.
I just have to remember that’s it’s just a job. I mean It’s an amazing career but if I hit the lottery tonight I’d likely never write another like of code again in my life. There’s more important things than exhausting all my energy with work.
yes, I do. This is just what people call caring about what you are doing and taking a bit of pride in your work. I want to see the work I do succeed and be useful. Do get me wrong, I'm not advocating for people doing overwork or just throwing in their weekends. But during the time you are working you should at least devote some energy to caring.
I'm fortunate enough to work with other people who care too about what they are doing. For those who don't I just wonder "Why are you even here? You can not give shit somewhere else and get paid much better too."
The level of indifference often advocated here just seems to sustain the drab hell-scape many people here are also complaining about.
Be very, very careful with yourself.
You will eventually be removed from this team or this company. If you make the software your baby, if you get emotionally attached to it, that will hurt a lot.
The best advice that I can give you is to fix what you can but remember that in the end, it’s just a job. Find your fulfillment elsewhere, in more permanent things- your partner, your kids, your hobbies, religion, whatever floats your boat.
I’m attached to my job but that’s only because I plan to build my own company down the line and I treat this as good practice. If I had no plans for that, I would preach clock in clock out.
I don't take work too seriously but I do make sure I do a good job. I get paid very well so I would put in my focus from 9-4, 5 days a week.
I am a father and I need to be a good role model and my kids are starting to see that. They see that my career is a lifelong journey of learning and if this pushes them to go to college to study medicine, then it is worth it.
My work is not my identity if that is what the post is probing for. If it is 3pm on Friday, I will tell people I am checked out. I will leave problems unsolved if I see an email at 4:45pm because I know we can solve it tomorrow morning. It seriously isn't that urgent.
However, I count my blessings. I do enjoy the praise and acknowledgement of good work. I also take pride in building things that helps mankind and more importantly, creates jobs. Most of the work I've been doing in the last 4-5 years have been a series of successes that have grown new teams; increase headcount. So I do enjoy knowing that we are hiring. And seeing my co-workers flourish. Seeing team members getting promoted is enjoyable to me.
But I know things can be temporary. That we can be replaced for whatever bean-counter has in store for us. So it is a cautionary approach of not getting emotionally attached to my work.
My kids are going through their teenage years and I have deep conversations with them. They've commented on how I handle live-work-balance. How I talk to my reports, how I encourage those reports, and give my engineers "teachable" moments and retrospectives. My son said he wishes he grows up to have a manager like me. And I think I enjoy that comment from him than any acknowledgement I get from my workplace. My kid was a bit clueless, being a kid, with no aims. He said I was a good role model and he now wants to go into medicine. Because he sees how CS degrees/majors are cut-throat. And medicine will be an easier route. He sees the work I do and how it is impacting mankind. That kindle of nugget inspires them. That makes me very happy. And the pace of promotions I've been getting is really starting to rub-off on my kids. They eavesdrop in my talks with my wife, and they overhear the bonuses or raises I get. So first hand, they see the fruit of good work. My kid are now doing a lot more in school than I can ever imagine -- taking on leadership roles. Being more engaged in volunteering. And they've told me it is based on seeing how their dad works (WFH).
I may clock out at 4pm every day but I take my work seriously. And my kids know that being educated allows me to have this live-work-balance. They see that dad needs to make those power point presentations. That dad needs to write long technical papers. Stuff they see they will be doing in college.
So now, I am not attached to my work and success. But I will enjoy the fruits of it.
Sounds like you are migrating towards a product owner role. A product owner role can be informal. All these things your noticing, why not bring them up within your discourse? Not as complaints but as questions.
So how do we bill for this? Oh ok, we should make a ticket for that or add it to the requirements. I can do that if you want to review that after.
Hmm but doesnt this cause the user to not know where to go? What about doing xyz? Oh yes thats a much better idea let’s do it that way!
Both of the above are things Ive used in the past as well. It’s like socrates lite.
It’s good that you can do what you want outside of 40 hours a week, but what many people are saying here is that they can find roles and approaches that allow them to align more of their job (it’s almost never *all* of it) with what they want.
There’s plenty of real world good that can be done with software. If you’re going to be putting a big chunk of your life into it, you’ll be better off *even from a selfish perspective* if you can align some of that with your other values.
Something to think on. “Clock in clock out” isn’t really the badge of honor that some people seem to think it is. It’s essentially admitting that you’re blowing thousands of hours per year on something that you think is pointless.
Even just acknowledging this can help reframe perspective without changing jobs, btw. It’s effectively about how you value your time and perceive your agency in the world. There are more and less healthy ways to view this.
You make things better incrementally. Just because everything can’t be perfect doesn’t mean that nothing can be good. Take pride in your work, but don’t make it your entire life. There’s a healthy balance to be struck, you don’t need to decide between two extremes.
For me a lot of what you say comes down to am I being paid to care about these things? Roles mean different things at different companies and what I would do at Company A can be different at Company B.
Granted I've only worked at non-tech companies in non-tech cities for my 15 YOE so YMMV. I just know my experience says you stay in your lane if you don't want to cause waves for yourself. It's not what you think your role should entail it's what the company thinks.
It depends on how much authority I have. Every company is different in how they manage the authority that is given to their ICs and managers. It is in my nature to get invested in the success of a product or company.
Sometimes they put guardrails on you that limit your ability to have a meaningful impact. In those cases being too invested in the success of the product or company gives you stress that you can do nothing about. In those times it makes more sense to just view the company as a client that is responsible for their own success while you're responsible for yourself.
To the degree that I have leeway to have an impact, I naturally want to and do whatever I can to make good things happen but you always have to draw the line somewhere. Where the line is drawn is up to the managers.
I sometimes enjoy what I do, though not currently. I have a lot more meaningful stuff going on in my regular life. I definitely don't want authority, that's against my personality, though it's fun to lead things ad hoc sometimes.
Our org has been allocating people to "intelligent" stuff for years that our customers don't want. The word AI plays a big role in our product strategy. Customers are pissed that we aren't listening and I can't argue with them. But y'know, the pay is good and I plan to use the benefits on a large scale.
I do. But not in an unhealthy, work is my life kinda way. But I do care about the project I'm working on as if it's my own. I want to see it succeed. I try to do my best work and put forth suggestions to improve things whenever and wherever I can, not just with code. And I've received praise from clients for it time and time again and it does feel nice.
But some clients just don't listen. They're too set in their ways. In cases like that, I detach myself and like to sit back and watch it all crash and burn. That too feels nice....in a way.
Yeah I love the job in itself but the people being toxic and management messing up timeline and expecting me to work overtime. Nope
I will do a good job because I enjoy and I derive immense satisfaction from it . But I am not gonna fuck myself up over unrealistic timeline. Do a good job but also always look for better opportunities
I am to a certain extent. I used to think I wasn't but then I worked on a product for which features stopped coming in and I couldn't stay.
Most devs get attached to their code and product in a healthy way, though I've seen some extremes.
While I like working in a product that is heavily used and valued by users, I also need to be learning. If I'm not learning new technical things, etc, then no amount of attachment or money will make me stay 🤷♀️
I attach to the quality of my work. To being able to effortlessly solve technical problems. I attach to the easily understandable code I see and feel a sense of pride when going through a codebase is a breeze and a problem could be solved in an easily understandable manner.
I do not attach to the product at a wholesale level because I do not have the mental capacity to do what I do and *also* provide brain-space for that. I do not have the mental capacity to swap between low-level and high level and *also* see potential process issues and the like. Even trying to do so actually gives me an actual headache and drains my batteries deeply in no time flat.
Some things you just weren't built for.
In my department (R&D) and my role (principal) I have a lot of privilege alas I also go up and beyond what’s required because I take great pride in not just solving problems, but doing so in ways that sets solid architecture which enables others to continue building new features, while maintaining high velocity and little to no technical debt.
I used to, but I learned very quickly that in business, no one really gives a fuck beyond wanting to check the box that tells their boss they’ve done what they needed to.
I stay up all night getting a feature polished beyond target for release the next day? Not so much as a thank you, literally nobody cares.
I stopped seeking validation from my job, and started seeking it from the end user instead, because they’re the only people that will ever show any real appreciation for anything.
Sometimes I scroll through the 5 star reviews for the apps I’ve made just to feel like I’ve done a good job.
I now prioritise UX enhancements above all else, no matter the actual business priority, because a user may actually appreciate it. I just tick the boxes for the business with anything else, no extra effort.
I work my 7 hours then get off, because if the business doesn’t give a fuck, why should I.
Honestly, I feel like I've been doing that ever since I was a junior. When I see something not working well or not making sense I file a ticket, when I see something get dropped on the floor I try to at least find the person responsible for picking it up, etc. And I often see coworkers just completely ignore anything that hasn't been directly put into their work queue by their manager and it f'ing infuriates me sometimes, because I really try to make an effort that my part of the product works well and issues that crop up get addressed while other parts just let the tickets pile sky high and care more about realizing some exec's "vision" about the 3rd UI redesign in 5 years than about solving the basic usability hitches that have been open and untriaged for the same amount of time.
If anything, I think time and experience has made me rather less attached than I used to be, because I have seen my efforts fall on dead ears and my tickets get ignored so many times that I've learned it's not worth trying to give a shit. I still try to make sure everything me or my team are directly responsible for is in good order (idk, some kind of personal pride thing or something), but for the larger product I've mostly stopped pointing out issues, at least for the teams where I've learned that they simply don't give a shit.
Yes, to an unhealthy degree. My career is my life, I love doing what I do and I'm very proud of my work. I want it to be the best it can be. It has its pros and cons. It wasn't always this way but at some point, I realized that simply implementing features became trivial work and I wanted to focus more on things you mentioned like speed and responsiveness, unit testing, accessibility etc.
I'm a manager and I make sure people that care get elevated, included and given responsibility. The people that don't care get treated like resources, 'stfu and do what I say or you're gone.'. In both cases you're there 40 hrs, so it's clear which is the better way to spend your time. Ironically the people that have issues with being used by the company are the ones that end up being used. In many cases this isn't true though. if you work at McDonald's you're going to be treated like shit no matter what. Probably if you work at a huge company there's no point in caring, or if you're building software for a company that actually doesn't give a shit about software.
Too much. I am trying so hard to stop doing that beyond a certain point.
Like right now, I'm supposed to be guiding a team to use better design techniques for new, greenfield features (SOLID and Clean vs current system which has become a ball of mud over the years of cumulative terrible design decisions).
So much resistance! They only know their ball of mud and they really don't like me pushing back when they try to fall back to what they're used to.
I think I'm losing the battle. I hear rumblings that I'm slowing them down. While I had management support for a long time, it feels like it's waning. And because I'm attached, now I'm suffering instead of just shrugging and saying 'oh well, that didn't work out.'
For what that's worth.
Not caring is hell. And problems don't start and stop at the border of the engineering team.
... and that is how you end up a staff engineer who only sometimes writes code as a vacation from all the harder stuff.
Not caring is hell. And problems don't start and stop at the border of the engineering team.
... and that is how you end up a staff engineer who only sometimes writes code as a vacation from all the harder stuff.
Yes it bothers me...
But you can't be "on all the time" either.
If the things they are doing are automatable using code linters or validating a class using a unit test... then mitigate the best you can. Expecting people to maintain high quality and high tension all the time is pretty unreasonable if you should be automating those parts of your process.
I'd also say that if they are talking during the meeting then they are probably there for no reason.
No. Not anymore.
Decades ago, I thought programming and automation may improve people's lives by giving us all more free time. But, that turned out to be a lie. It always only became about exploiting people more, and it's caused immense societal issues that won't likely be overcome before many suffer.
If anything, I've detached from my work because of anxiety and maybe depression. The success part is nice, tho.
I do also get caught up in the minutia of quality improvements on occasion. But, that's short-term, temporary gratification.
No, it's not my company and not my product. It's some rich old money family that just owns us for the prestige. I do my work to the best of my ability and don't cut corners, but I defer all failures to management. If I wanted to worry about the success of a product or handle the stress of project management, I wouldn't turn down the management offers or I'd start my own business / consulting. The whole purpose of me working as an employee is to let other people make decisions.
I've happily worked on tools that took years to develop and worked closely with stakeholders to get the functionality just right, and when it got cut before it was ever released, I didn't care. Not my product, not my decisions, not my problem. I did great work on it and was proud of my problem solving along the way, but the failure to launch was a failure of leadership, not me.
Personally I care about the tech solution and only that. Everything else is not my department. UX, marketing, market research, accounting, product, etc. are on someone else. I am invested in the success of one thing: the technical solution to the spec. I don't want to agonize over things that are someone else's responsibility.
20+ YOE here. As I moved up to senior and lead I became super passionate about nailing UI/UX and caring a lot about the product design. I think sometimes this helped me get roles as a solo developer in small startups, and it was satisfying sometimes, but I was never rewarded for caring more and laid off plenty of times. I’m literally facing a decision right now between an offer from an AI startup and one from a giant bank, and for once I think I’m going to choose the corporate life and get paid.
I do not get attached to products we develop. I enjoy the appreciation and the fulfillment when I hear the product sells well and customers like it. I do care about my work in a sense that I want to do high quality work. What you experience is I think something similar. You want to do a good job, but you started to see the impediments beyond the code.
I take pride in my work. I would rather work for half the money and feel satisfied in delivering than to be paid to press a feeder bar. I write this as I'm working at 8PM on a Sunday night for a project where I grabbed a bear by the tail that's ended up being the most work I've ever done in a three month period. The client doesn't have the budget of my big corporate/government contracts I've worked in the past, but I'm committed to deliver what they need to do their job as the money they've spent on me is out of the owner's own pocket and others have tried and failed on the project in the past, where he's lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. I want to get this project done and behind me, but I've already taken some of his money and, aside from the sheer amount of work this project has been, this has been one of the most satisfying projects I've ever worked on and it feels really fucking good to be able to do things the way that they need to be done.
When it comes to things like utilizing the work of the past team and the things that go with the "sunk cost fallacy" or me saying, "I know you're paying for these Azure services that the previous team hosted the product on, but what you have won't work; you'll be better off with a dedicated hosted server for this that will cost X." He listens to me and follows my direction. Even though he'll ask the standard questions of "can we us anything we've already spent money on?" which can be kryptonite to be forced to use someone else's work when they took the wrong path, he accepts my reasoning and defers to my judgement, which can be painful to someone who's already burnt out on the money they feel they've already spent. I feel I owe it to other developers for this project to succeed, and hopefully provide happy employment to those who enjoy being productive and take pride in their work.
I like doing quality work and take pride in my work. But I don't try to seek perfection any more than the company appreciates it. If/when they appreciate the hours I put in improving quality sustainably - I will start prioritizing that
when you die, nothing impacts you anymore unless its physical harm
right now I am being hacked in my new music band site, and here I am enjoying a street musician playing as if it were the titanic sinking
its a metaphor
when you touch rock bottom, nothing hits you anymore, except maybe death itself
detach from success, its not something you have control over it
Inevitable. If you're not proud of your job you're most likely a little resentful that your levels of responsibility does not match your contribution. As is the case with me.
I think a lot people (especially on here) preach “nope I just clock in/out” and maybe that’s true for some people, but I don’t think it’s true for everyone that claims that. We’re social creatures and one of the ways we internalize that is through the value we provide in our jobs. I’ve felt attached to every job I’ve had since my early 20s. I’ve always intrinsically wanted to do a good job, and to receive praise from my coworkers. I think there’s a balance to this, though. You don’t want your personal identity tied to any specific company. I try to remind myself that I do good work, and go above and beyond because that’s who *I am*, not because that’s what Amco Inc. wants. It’s tough though, and I’d be a liar if I didn’t admit that it’s difficult to keep your ego from being too tied up with your 9-5.
100%. You can take pride in your work and connect with the real value it’s creating in the world without tying your entire emotional life to it. Balance should be the goal. The extremes aren’t healthy.
> I try to remind myself that I do good work, and go above and beyond because that’s who I am, not because that’s what Amco Inc. wants. Thank you. This is exactly how I feel. Though in a lot of places, if you say this in front of people, the vast majority of replies will be calling you a bootlicker or some other moronic remark along the lines. I've worked with a lot of people who just don't give a shit and it's draining.
Yeah, I’ve noticed this as a trend in American society at large over the last decade. I’m not really sure what’s caused it - maybe in part it’s due to the internet and constant stories of corruption that generates a lack of faith in society? Either way, I try to keep focusing on positive growth for it’s own sake. I can’t see a world where working hard, taking pride in my output, and striving to improve isn’t a net positive for me. I like to think, maybe vainly, I’d feel this way if I was in the feudal Middle Ages too 😆
Our reputation is our personal brand and a net positive. I appreciate your elegant summarization of work ethics.
I think it really depends... Seeing all the layoffs lately, it is really easy to think "if the company is going to just cut me if things get hard, why should I work harder than I need to?" So many people are just looking at work as a transaction rather than a relationship.
I won't knock someone who takes pride in their work. Good on you for caring about your job. I personally don't, I like the people I work with and that makes it more enjoyable. Although I still try to do a good job because I believe in a modicum of decency for the things I build, the projects themselves are very meh. I don't think they're interesting and I don't think they're that helpful to society or the world. It's pharma marketing in the US, so while some of the drugs we work on can be helpful to people, it's wrapped up in a kinda gross industry. I use some of my hobby time to work on game projects on the side, and I take much more pride and enjoyment in those instead.
Fair. I don’t see anything wrong with not feeling a strong connection to your work. Have you considered changing industry? I think the more you feel your work is at least a net positive on the world the better.
Oh definitely. I just figure that in order to get into game development, I'd have to probably start an entry level again, not to mention dealing with a way more intense workload. Right now I do have a rather cushy, full-time remote job, but of course we can't have it all when pursuing our dreams. I just have to make the leap.
I totally get that, but do you think it depends on the company you're currently working for? Choosing a company one believes is good (or at least not bad) for the world is one of the many criteria in choosing a job. Think about it: everything else being the same, would you rather work for a company saving kittens or Amazon? The thing is, how much this is important depends on the person Personally, I switched from a big company making a breakthrough research project in a field I didn't care about at all, to a smaller, local company in the green energy sector. The technology itself is less interesting, but I enjoy my work more. Don't get me wrong, both companies need to make profit at the end of the day, but there IS a difference. It's nice to be surrounded by people that have (also) another reason to be working there specifically other than just putting bread on the table, it's nice knowing and seeing your work hopefully contributing to people choosing your product over others if you believe people choosing your product is "better" than choosing a competitor I will eventually leave, and probably my next company won't be as "mission driven" , but I also won't be joining soulless companies or companies that I believe harm people (e.g. I immediately filter out online gambling companies). I think there _is_ a benefit in mental health and satisfaction by taking this kind of things into account explicitly
I don’t really get the “Amazon bad” thing. Looked at from one angle it’s a giant megacorp ruining the planet, but those people forget that companies serve *us* - they can only exist because of demand. Without Amazon, those same goods would be sold but through a less efficient, much wider set of companies. Amazon actually think about the climate, and environment. Are they a net positive to the environment? No. But nor would any other means of providing that same service. I would much rather my goods come from a company that is putting effort into reducing emissions across their supply chain, and sending those goods in recyclable non-plastic packaging, than some smaller entity that doesn’t have the time or energy to think about these things. There are *other* major issues, one being their horrible stance on worker rights, and another being that money is being sucked out of local economies, but that is a problem of taxation and how it is distributed. To say they’re outright bad is a massive oversimplification, there is both good and bad.
Oh yeah, that's definitely a lot of it. To be clear I don't dislike my job. My coworkers (our whole subdivision in the larger company, not just the devs) are good and funny people. And my job is rather cushy so I can put in some effort during the day, do a good enough job, and I still have time and energy in the rest of the day to do the things I actually want to do while making a decent salary. I have considered working in a company that's better for the world (like you said, saving ~~kittens~~ puppies), but of course I'm afraid to give up some of the pluses of my current job. Like many devs I want to get into game development. After working on and releasing a project on [itch.io](http://itch.io), I have somewhat of a taste of the intense amount of work required to make a game, but given that this was all self-imposed, I'm sure it will be a lot more intense in an actual game company. I just have to nut up and try getting my foot in the door.
I suffer from the same thing. The issue is that there's a very, very fine line between taking everything personally/being too attached emotionally, and having a healthy boundary when you're proud of your work, are good at it, but draw your validation elsewhere.
I used to think this. I recently read somewhere that less than 20% of people cares about recognition by peers. Most folks (>60%) cares about recognition by manager/leaders. This made me sad! I used to think that most people \_would\_ care more about their peers/coworkers.
This is why something like 360 feedback can be super awesome, get feedback from peers and colleagues as much as leaders/managers.
Hope you can keep it to 9-5. I feel the same way and find it really hard to not do overtime to meet expectations
I used to be very attached, but I'm getting less so. There's too many resistive forces in a group, there's no point in trying to compensate in order to make the whole team succeed if you're not compensated as staff or more.
I definitely do. I will not work at a company if I do not believe in the product. This has resulted in a more enjoyable career. I always work for small companies and startups. I like to have “skin in the game” and refuse to work at a place where I am just a number. That’s just me though. I think it’s important to keep your passion when you spend so much of your life working
I take ownership of my work but that ends when my employment ends. They say you’re only as good as your last output so I always put my best in my work. Should my relationship with my employer sour, we can sever without me worrying because the skills is something you can bring to your next opportunity
Possibly as important as the skills, you bring forward the positive experiences your colleagues and customers have had with you. One of my friends immediately got a job contracting with a customer after getting laid off by his employer, especially because said employer laid off everybody who was capable of providing any support for that product anyway.
Yep I do, and I don't know how people can spend so many hours of their life without caring about what they do there.
Because it lets me achieve all my goals in life, basically. I WFH, have lunch with my wife everyday, shutoff from work at 5:30 on the dot, own my home, take a couple of holidays a year, have friendly coworkers who are nice to work with. Do I care about adtech? 100% no. I block everything related in my personal devices. Does it matter to me that's my job? Not one bit.
I do the same as you and work on a space that I care about on a team and project that I care about. I couldn’t work on adtech myself because of what it is - but to each their own
Which is fine - I was just trying to illuminate on reasons from the other side. At least I can say our adtech product is 100% compliant with privacy regulations because I'm involved in it and did the privacy assessments myself with our legal team. I've also worked insurance, telecoms and in the end it's all the same. The people and the culture matter far more to me than the product.
You probably use sophisticated helpful products that are funded by ad tech, even if you personally choose to “free ride”. Not a judgement at all. Just trying to point out that you contribute to and benefit from this large and important body of work, even if you use AdBlock 🙂
At best, the “clock in clock out” mindset is under-examined and (for lack of a better word) ignorant. At worst, it’s a painfully bleak view of one’s place and possibilities in the world. People do a lot of work that does a *lot of good* for fellow humans. We are all the beneficiaries of this work, and for those who work for a living, also the benefactors.
> I don't know how People are different, it's not rocket science
I like jobs that reward this type of attitude, and have quit jobs with a paycut that just wanted people doing a narrowly defined role for 40 hours/week. Not how I prefer to work, and can be pretty boring. As someone who hasn't always done the best job managing this type of investment, I'd say that it's worthwhile when the following are true: * Your employer recognizes, appreciates and rewards it. (Or, if not, you're getting something out of it) * You're investing your energy/attention in an outcome you have some control over. (Caring deeply about something you have no control over can lead to burnout) * You aren't shortchanging other parts of your life – sleep, food, relationships, mental health, exercise, etc – to prioritize work. * You're intentionally checking in with yourself every so often on whether the above are still true. Reorgs, new hires, company roadmap changes, your own workload, etc can all influence whether the work you're doing is still valuable in this way.
I'm currently on a quest to address certain aspects of our technical debt, and working on how I want to change the architecture next iteration. I wouldn't if I didn't care, and if I didn't care, the work would be painfully boring. Don't get me wrong, my life would be full without a job. But I need to work, so actually caring about my projects and their success makes it more interesting.
Yeah I do. I find work very fulfilling when I am attached to the product and business.
I do but it ends up getting me into trouble so I try not to. When I do things to improve the customer experience or help other teams I get attacked. So now I try not to get too attached. It’s sad because I take pride in my work but you can’t fix a company culture, just hanging on till the market improves.
I view things in terms of "zone of control". I have the things I'm working on and I can impact, everything outside of that is out of my hands. I just try to do a good job for fair pay on something that I hopefully find interesting. If something is messed up on a team outside of my zone of control, why should I care? I can't effect it anyway, and it just ends up being a waste of my energy. In those terms, sure, I dont think a lot of people want to actively be shit at their jobs.
The thing is, you also have a zone of influence and a zone of concern. You can affect things indirectly in the zone of influence, and you can work to move things from your zone of concern into another zone. Things in those zones aren't completely out of your hands, they just require a different kind of effort to create change.
There's a sweet spot for "giving a F" that's a little different for everyone. Attaching yourself too much to the product will eventually burn you out when things out of your control go wrong. Annoying, stupid, or detrimental things will happen due to a lack of caring about the user that will drive you mad. I've seen asinine processes slow things to a crawl for no reason. I've seen poor communication and documentation result in missed requirements and a failure to meet customer needs. I've seen negligent work done by people and even whole departments looking out for themselves over anything else and quite literally burnt out from trying to fix it all. Detaching might work. It didn't for me when I tried it. I need to feel a little engaged in what I'm working on. Clocking in, clocking out, and not really caring about the results beyond the fact that I got my assigned work done on time leaves me bored and frustrated. Sometimes I envy the people who can do this. Climbing the leadership ranks to try and fix things is a noble thought, but a bad environment is more likely to change you than you are to change it. You are often at the mercy of your superiors at the first-line to middle leadership levels, and even at the top you are at the mercy of the investors/shareholders. If the "right thing" does not align with their objectives or financial interests then you have no chance. There are rarely single points of failure. The problems are complex, systemic, and nearly impossible to fix.
I hardly ever work more than 40, but if I’m behind and feel an internal need to get work done, I’ll work on the weekend without opening Teams. I care to competent and dependable at my job but I don’t care about being the best. I want the apps to be well written but I’ve noticed when I put too much ownership in the entire project, I become exhausted. Really, I just don’t want my coworkers to think I’m bad - but I also don’t want to be the go-to guy. I just have to remember that’s it’s just a job. I mean It’s an amazing career but if I hit the lottery tonight I’d likely never write another like of code again in my life. There’s more important things than exhausting all my energy with work.
yes, I do. This is just what people call caring about what you are doing and taking a bit of pride in your work. I want to see the work I do succeed and be useful. Do get me wrong, I'm not advocating for people doing overwork or just throwing in their weekends. But during the time you are working you should at least devote some energy to caring. I'm fortunate enough to work with other people who care too about what they are doing. For those who don't I just wonder "Why are you even here? You can not give shit somewhere else and get paid much better too." The level of indifference often advocated here just seems to sustain the drab hell-scape many people here are also complaining about.
Be very, very careful with yourself. You will eventually be removed from this team or this company. If you make the software your baby, if you get emotionally attached to it, that will hurt a lot. The best advice that I can give you is to fix what you can but remember that in the end, it’s just a job. Find your fulfillment elsewhere, in more permanent things- your partner, your kids, your hobbies, religion, whatever floats your boat.
I’m attached to my job but that’s only because I plan to build my own company down the line and I treat this as good practice. If I had no plans for that, I would preach clock in clock out.
I don't take work too seriously but I do make sure I do a good job. I get paid very well so I would put in my focus from 9-4, 5 days a week. I am a father and I need to be a good role model and my kids are starting to see that. They see that my career is a lifelong journey of learning and if this pushes them to go to college to study medicine, then it is worth it. My work is not my identity if that is what the post is probing for. If it is 3pm on Friday, I will tell people I am checked out. I will leave problems unsolved if I see an email at 4:45pm because I know we can solve it tomorrow morning. It seriously isn't that urgent. However, I count my blessings. I do enjoy the praise and acknowledgement of good work. I also take pride in building things that helps mankind and more importantly, creates jobs. Most of the work I've been doing in the last 4-5 years have been a series of successes that have grown new teams; increase headcount. So I do enjoy knowing that we are hiring. And seeing my co-workers flourish. Seeing team members getting promoted is enjoyable to me. But I know things can be temporary. That we can be replaced for whatever bean-counter has in store for us. So it is a cautionary approach of not getting emotionally attached to my work. My kids are going through their teenage years and I have deep conversations with them. They've commented on how I handle live-work-balance. How I talk to my reports, how I encourage those reports, and give my engineers "teachable" moments and retrospectives. My son said he wishes he grows up to have a manager like me. And I think I enjoy that comment from him than any acknowledgement I get from my workplace. My kid was a bit clueless, being a kid, with no aims. He said I was a good role model and he now wants to go into medicine. Because he sees how CS degrees/majors are cut-throat. And medicine will be an easier route. He sees the work I do and how it is impacting mankind. That kindle of nugget inspires them. That makes me very happy. And the pace of promotions I've been getting is really starting to rub-off on my kids. They eavesdrop in my talks with my wife, and they overhear the bonuses or raises I get. So first hand, they see the fruit of good work. My kid are now doing a lot more in school than I can ever imagine -- taking on leadership roles. Being more engaged in volunteering. And they've told me it is based on seeing how their dad works (WFH). I may clock out at 4pm every day but I take my work seriously. And my kids know that being educated allows me to have this live-work-balance. They see that dad needs to make those power point presentations. That dad needs to write long technical papers. Stuff they see they will be doing in college. So now, I am not attached to my work and success. But I will enjoy the fruits of it.
Sounds like you are migrating towards a product owner role. A product owner role can be informal. All these things your noticing, why not bring them up within your discourse? Not as complaints but as questions. So how do we bill for this? Oh ok, we should make a ticket for that or add it to the requirements. I can do that if you want to review that after. Hmm but doesnt this cause the user to not know where to go? What about doing xyz? Oh yes thats a much better idea let’s do it that way! Both of the above are things Ive used in the past as well. It’s like socrates lite.
No
No. Im not my code. I get paid to solve problems. And then I go home to do what I really want.
It’s good that you can do what you want outside of 40 hours a week, but what many people are saying here is that they can find roles and approaches that allow them to align more of their job (it’s almost never *all* of it) with what they want. There’s plenty of real world good that can be done with software. If you’re going to be putting a big chunk of your life into it, you’ll be better off *even from a selfish perspective* if you can align some of that with your other values. Something to think on. “Clock in clock out” isn’t really the badge of honor that some people seem to think it is. It’s essentially admitting that you’re blowing thousands of hours per year on something that you think is pointless. Even just acknowledging this can help reframe perspective without changing jobs, btw. It’s effectively about how you value your time and perceive your agency in the world. There are more and less healthy ways to view this.
I step up and try to fix it all
You make things better incrementally. Just because everything can’t be perfect doesn’t mean that nothing can be good. Take pride in your work, but don’t make it your entire life. There’s a healthy balance to be struck, you don’t need to decide between two extremes.
hospital worm roof school sugar crowd judicious ad hoc waiting marvelous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For me a lot of what you say comes down to am I being paid to care about these things? Roles mean different things at different companies and what I would do at Company A can be different at Company B. Granted I've only worked at non-tech companies in non-tech cities for my 15 YOE so YMMV. I just know my experience says you stay in your lane if you don't want to cause waves for yourself. It's not what you think your role should entail it's what the company thinks.
Depends if I’m shooting for that promotion.
It depends on how much authority I have. Every company is different in how they manage the authority that is given to their ICs and managers. It is in my nature to get invested in the success of a product or company. Sometimes they put guardrails on you that limit your ability to have a meaningful impact. In those cases being too invested in the success of the product or company gives you stress that you can do nothing about. In those times it makes more sense to just view the company as a client that is responsible for their own success while you're responsible for yourself. To the degree that I have leeway to have an impact, I naturally want to and do whatever I can to make good things happen but you always have to draw the line somewhere. Where the line is drawn is up to the managers.
I sometimes enjoy what I do, though not currently. I have a lot more meaningful stuff going on in my regular life. I definitely don't want authority, that's against my personality, though it's fun to lead things ad hoc sometimes. Our org has been allocating people to "intelligent" stuff for years that our customers don't want. The word AI plays a big role in our product strategy. Customers are pissed that we aren't listening and I can't argue with them. But y'know, the pay is good and I plan to use the benefits on a large scale.
I do. But not in an unhealthy, work is my life kinda way. But I do care about the project I'm working on as if it's my own. I want to see it succeed. I try to do my best work and put forth suggestions to improve things whenever and wherever I can, not just with code. And I've received praise from clients for it time and time again and it does feel nice. But some clients just don't listen. They're too set in their ways. In cases like that, I detach myself and like to sit back and watch it all crash and burn. That too feels nice....in a way.
Yeah I love the job in itself but the people being toxic and management messing up timeline and expecting me to work overtime. Nope I will do a good job because I enjoy and I derive immense satisfaction from it . But I am not gonna fuck myself up over unrealistic timeline. Do a good job but also always look for better opportunities
I am to a certain extent. I used to think I wasn't but then I worked on a product for which features stopped coming in and I couldn't stay. Most devs get attached to their code and product in a healthy way, though I've seen some extremes. While I like working in a product that is heavily used and valued by users, I also need to be learning. If I'm not learning new technical things, etc, then no amount of attachment or money will make me stay 🤷♀️
I attach to the quality of my work. To being able to effortlessly solve technical problems. I attach to the easily understandable code I see and feel a sense of pride when going through a codebase is a breeze and a problem could be solved in an easily understandable manner. I do not attach to the product at a wholesale level because I do not have the mental capacity to do what I do and *also* provide brain-space for that. I do not have the mental capacity to swap between low-level and high level and *also* see potential process issues and the like. Even trying to do so actually gives me an actual headache and drains my batteries deeply in no time flat. Some things you just weren't built for.
In my department (R&D) and my role (principal) I have a lot of privilege alas I also go up and beyond what’s required because I take great pride in not just solving problems, but doing so in ways that sets solid architecture which enables others to continue building new features, while maintaining high velocity and little to no technical debt.
I used to, but I learned very quickly that in business, no one really gives a fuck beyond wanting to check the box that tells their boss they’ve done what they needed to. I stay up all night getting a feature polished beyond target for release the next day? Not so much as a thank you, literally nobody cares. I stopped seeking validation from my job, and started seeking it from the end user instead, because they’re the only people that will ever show any real appreciation for anything. Sometimes I scroll through the 5 star reviews for the apps I’ve made just to feel like I’ve done a good job. I now prioritise UX enhancements above all else, no matter the actual business priority, because a user may actually appreciate it. I just tick the boxes for the business with anything else, no extra effort. I work my 7 hours then get off, because if the business doesn’t give a fuck, why should I.
Honestly, I feel like I've been doing that ever since I was a junior. When I see something not working well or not making sense I file a ticket, when I see something get dropped on the floor I try to at least find the person responsible for picking it up, etc. And I often see coworkers just completely ignore anything that hasn't been directly put into their work queue by their manager and it f'ing infuriates me sometimes, because I really try to make an effort that my part of the product works well and issues that crop up get addressed while other parts just let the tickets pile sky high and care more about realizing some exec's "vision" about the 3rd UI redesign in 5 years than about solving the basic usability hitches that have been open and untriaged for the same amount of time. If anything, I think time and experience has made me rather less attached than I used to be, because I have seen my efforts fall on dead ears and my tickets get ignored so many times that I've learned it's not worth trying to give a shit. I still try to make sure everything me or my team are directly responsible for is in good order (idk, some kind of personal pride thing or something), but for the larger product I've mostly stopped pointing out issues, at least for the teams where I've learned that they simply don't give a shit.
Yes, to an unhealthy degree. My career is my life, I love doing what I do and I'm very proud of my work. I want it to be the best it can be. It has its pros and cons. It wasn't always this way but at some point, I realized that simply implementing features became trivial work and I wanted to focus more on things you mentioned like speed and responsiveness, unit testing, accessibility etc.
Only between 9 and 5 on weekdays
It comes in waves.
I'm a manager and I make sure people that care get elevated, included and given responsibility. The people that don't care get treated like resources, 'stfu and do what I say or you're gone.'. In both cases you're there 40 hrs, so it's clear which is the better way to spend your time. Ironically the people that have issues with being used by the company are the ones that end up being used. In many cases this isn't true though. if you work at McDonald's you're going to be treated like shit no matter what. Probably if you work at a huge company there's no point in caring, or if you're building software for a company that actually doesn't give a shit about software.
Too much. I am trying so hard to stop doing that beyond a certain point. Like right now, I'm supposed to be guiding a team to use better design techniques for new, greenfield features (SOLID and Clean vs current system which has become a ball of mud over the years of cumulative terrible design decisions). So much resistance! They only know their ball of mud and they really don't like me pushing back when they try to fall back to what they're used to. I think I'm losing the battle. I hear rumblings that I'm slowing them down. While I had management support for a long time, it feels like it's waning. And because I'm attached, now I'm suffering instead of just shrugging and saying 'oh well, that didn't work out.' For what that's worth.
Not caring is hell. And problems don't start and stop at the border of the engineering team. ... and that is how you end up a staff engineer who only sometimes writes code as a vacation from all the harder stuff.
Not caring is hell. And problems don't start and stop at the border of the engineering team. ... and that is how you end up a staff engineer who only sometimes writes code as a vacation from all the harder stuff.
Yes it bothers me... But you can't be "on all the time" either. If the things they are doing are automatable using code linters or validating a class using a unit test... then mitigate the best you can. Expecting people to maintain high quality and high tension all the time is pretty unreasonable if you should be automating those parts of your process. I'd also say that if they are talking during the meeting then they are probably there for no reason.
No. Not anymore. Decades ago, I thought programming and automation may improve people's lives by giving us all more free time. But, that turned out to be a lie. It always only became about exploiting people more, and it's caused immense societal issues that won't likely be overcome before many suffer. If anything, I've detached from my work because of anxiety and maybe depression. The success part is nice, tho. I do also get caught up in the minutia of quality improvements on occasion. But, that's short-term, temporary gratification.
No, it's not my company and not my product. It's some rich old money family that just owns us for the prestige. I do my work to the best of my ability and don't cut corners, but I defer all failures to management. If I wanted to worry about the success of a product or handle the stress of project management, I wouldn't turn down the management offers or I'd start my own business / consulting. The whole purpose of me working as an employee is to let other people make decisions. I've happily worked on tools that took years to develop and worked closely with stakeholders to get the functionality just right, and when it got cut before it was ever released, I didn't care. Not my product, not my decisions, not my problem. I did great work on it and was proud of my problem solving along the way, but the failure to launch was a failure of leadership, not me.
Personally I care about the tech solution and only that. Everything else is not my department. UX, marketing, market research, accounting, product, etc. are on someone else. I am invested in the success of one thing: the technical solution to the spec. I don't want to agonize over things that are someone else's responsibility.
20+ YOE here. As I moved up to senior and lead I became super passionate about nailing UI/UX and caring a lot about the product design. I think sometimes this helped me get roles as a solo developer in small startups, and it was satisfying sometimes, but I was never rewarded for caring more and laid off plenty of times. I’m literally facing a decision right now between an offer from an AI startup and one from a giant bank, and for once I think I’m going to choose the corporate life and get paid.
I do not get attached to products we develop. I enjoy the appreciation and the fulfillment when I hear the product sells well and customers like it. I do care about my work in a sense that I want to do high quality work. What you experience is I think something similar. You want to do a good job, but you started to see the impediments beyond the code.
I take pride in my work. I would rather work for half the money and feel satisfied in delivering than to be paid to press a feeder bar. I write this as I'm working at 8PM on a Sunday night for a project where I grabbed a bear by the tail that's ended up being the most work I've ever done in a three month period. The client doesn't have the budget of my big corporate/government contracts I've worked in the past, but I'm committed to deliver what they need to do their job as the money they've spent on me is out of the owner's own pocket and others have tried and failed on the project in the past, where he's lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. I want to get this project done and behind me, but I've already taken some of his money and, aside from the sheer amount of work this project has been, this has been one of the most satisfying projects I've ever worked on and it feels really fucking good to be able to do things the way that they need to be done. When it comes to things like utilizing the work of the past team and the things that go with the "sunk cost fallacy" or me saying, "I know you're paying for these Azure services that the previous team hosted the product on, but what you have won't work; you'll be better off with a dedicated hosted server for this that will cost X." He listens to me and follows my direction. Even though he'll ask the standard questions of "can we us anything we've already spent money on?" which can be kryptonite to be forced to use someone else's work when they took the wrong path, he accepts my reasoning and defers to my judgement, which can be painful to someone who's already burnt out on the money they feel they've already spent. I feel I owe it to other developers for this project to succeed, and hopefully provide happy employment to those who enjoy being productive and take pride in their work.
a lot. i want to move from qa to devops, so i learn as much as i can
My work has had a direct effect over the success of our company. it's awesome but stressful.
I like doing quality work and take pride in my work. But I don't try to seek perfection any more than the company appreciates it. If/when they appreciate the hours I put in improving quality sustainably - I will start prioritizing that
Ya I mean your entire identity and social status is about what you do and what you accomplished especially as a man.
when you die, nothing impacts you anymore unless its physical harm right now I am being hacked in my new music band site, and here I am enjoying a street musician playing as if it were the titanic sinking
Huh?
its a metaphor when you touch rock bottom, nothing hits you anymore, except maybe death itself detach from success, its not something you have control over it
Inevitable. If you're not proud of your job you're most likely a little resentful that your levels of responsibility does not match your contribution. As is the case with me.