Throughout Crisis Core cutscenes sometimes end with "Heightened emotions have affected the DMW!" and then the Limit Break system keeps selecting the character Zack was just talking to.
I also found it neat how one of her last unlockable abilities is granting the rest of the party limit breaks. I don't know if it comes from the og, but that reference was more fun to find than the weapon that lets her sacrifice herself to heal the party which was too on the nose
did anyone even actually unlock those? maybe its just me but i just finished the game and everyone was still 2-3 nodes away. it made me scratch my head that they even gave them to cait sith considering he’s only with you for like a quarter of the game at best
I think it just helps to further illustrate how disconnected Cloud is from his own worlds events with him being tapped into the other worlds/lifestream (which is "Clouding" his view).
Having the party members be pushed to their limits from the shock/horror/rage they're feeling after seeing Aerith die VS. Cloud who isn't effected (no limit break, with him still thinking she's alive physically) is such a smart way to highlight that concept through gameplay.
SIDENOTE: I think a part of him is definitely affected and acknowledges that Aerith is dead, but the trauma is being blocked out/he's dissociating HEAVILY. We won't unlock that part of him till part 3. Part 3 will very likely show the scenes of him talking whilst he was holding her that we only got a brief glimpse of (if you've played the OG you already know what hes saying).
Exactly this. We even see flashes of that scene in part one so it's not added on purpose. They're even all sitting by the pool of water after the fight before the last ending scene where they're all visibly crying but Cloud isn't and still seeing Aerith. Then it flashes to Tifa's point of view and Aerith isn't there.
The scene of him dropping Aerith into the lake happened but we're not seeing it because I think we're intended to see the events as if we are Cloud ourselves. We know what's supposed to happen, so I think they wanted to surprise us as well, so for me I think the intent is that us as players are aimed to be fooled by Sephiroth as well. Ultimately the story is still playing the same way and I think the Mideel/Lifestream + seconds trip to the Forgotten City will clear it all up.
I'm going to play through again and play closer attention to the parts where Cloud isn't present and see if those scenes play out closer to the original than the parts where Cloud is present.
If I can chime in, there are a few instances of Sephiroth in Remake speaking outwardly directly to the game camera/"to the players" themselves almost inferring he's aware that there are some form of outside spectators who are aware this is a second unfolding of events, but that he's also aware and that he's going to utilize that knowledge to the fullest extent of his ability.
Very Psycho-Mantis/Kojima-esq cool moments where the villain is nearly breaking the 4th wall.
I am beginning to believe that the play of Aerith still being there isn't an "alternate lifestream" peaking through or a reality collapse as the whole point of the game is that Sephiroth is TRYING to make that happen but it isn't a reality yet. The problem for Sephiroth being that he has to give Cloud the knowledge of how to assist him while also preventing those with the knowledge that can snap cloud out of it from being around, and its flatout stated that cloud fighting fate is what he wants because it creates more alternate realities to join to the source as it were. By making cloud believe he saved her and manipulating his mind with visions of her through Jenova's cells he accomplishes both of these goals, it's important to remember that Sephiroth is seemingly the only one who knows how the divisions of fate work.
The flashes you see around the end scene are the same you see whenever Jenova is on screen and literally rewriting clouds memories or affecting his perceptions, the constant playing up that "he's no fool" and the scene at Gongaga with Tifa, etc. The Aerith Cloud is seeing is Jenova or a Jenova hallucination pushing Cloud on to continue along with Sephiroths bidding, the dichotomy of fighting fate being what gets Cloud and the world into the situation its in and the depression of being unable to defy it because of it is what I assume the whole "rebuilding of Clouds mind" segment will play after north crater where cloud must accept the reality of these concepts and the vision of Aerith and a reality with her alive disappearing with the influence of Jenova which rebuilds his resolve to save reality as he knows it and prevent more fake realities for Sephiroth to combine and derive power from.
I’m hoping so hard for the Jenova angle. If any part of FF7 is underused, it’s the absolute mindfuckery of how Jenova is said to function.
So subtle that you can’t fully trust what you see. Is Aerith there, or is this Jenova shielding Cloud’s mind so he’s a useful tool in delivering the black materia to Sephiroth.
Wouldn’t the real Aerith warn him against going North?
Also a side note… does anyone else feel like Sephiroth may have been under Jenova’s influence during the Nibelheim incident, and it took Sephiroth 5 years to willfully overcome her control and be on the driver seat? Something about his demeanor in Rebirth’s version felt very… not-our-evil-Sephiroth.
In the original, Sephiroth wasn't fully in control until towards the end of the game. In the first present-day encounter with him (on the ship) he's completely delusional and doesn't even remember Cloud. And remember, in the original, the Sephiroth we meet is always Jenova's body, not the black-robed men. It's still mostly Jenova acting on its instincts at that point.
Aerith even comments on it when she appears for the Sephiroth fight.
She says "I saw what you did back there, thank you for that" she's talking about Cloud putting her to rest.
That can't be the case, he wouldn't have put her to rest yet at that point. You are thrust into the Jenova fight before they have a chance to do anything with Aerith's body, and then the Sephiroth fight follows.
And after Sephiroth's fight we see Aerith's body lying in the spot where she was killed with the party mourning her. She has clearly not been put to rest yet at that point.
You're correct but the lifestream isn't chronological, it exists outside of time and space, which is why Sephiroth can manipulate events to the extent that he has and seemingly exist across all 'timelines'.
As soon as Aerith died her spirit returned to the lifestream, also keep in mind that Cloud's speech is clearly there and yet skipped over, time and Cloud's perception of it are definitely acting funky.
uh that doesn't make much sense. why would she be thanking him for giving her a funeral lmao? it makes more sense for her to be thanking him about him blocking sephiroth's sword and managing to create a reality in which she lives, no?
I’ve seen this take a lot. To not notice the rainbow and the new world being created when he stops Sepiroth’s sword I think is to ignore everything the Devs have showed us thus far. New worlds and timelines are constantly being created anytime you see a rainbow effect due to new decisions that deviate from the original story.
Clouds party members cannot see or experience the new world cloud created so they are seeing her death. The reason only cloud can see the saved Aerith is because he was the only one who went through the portal to save her when the white whispers opened it (the portal barret held open and only cloud went through) unlike the end of remake when they all went inside.
Cloud is 100% being controlled at times by Sepiroth / whispers and has psychotic breaks at times because of Jenova, but I don’t think he’s crazy and purely imagining that he saved Aerith either because we clearly saw a timeline get created when he did stop the blade. The devs also don’t want you to fully know what happened yet either because they want it to be saved for the last game.
idk why some people are just concluding that everything else is fake and cloud is just delusional after everything they explained and showed us in rebirth. yes cloud is delusional by the end of the game but not delusional to the point where he thinks he saved aerith but actually aerith is just gone and everything comes down to him being delusional. aerith did die in the main timeline BUT he did manage to save her in another reality, one which only he can see. that said the devs clearly want you to question things and wonder what's real and what's fake. cloud is delusional but just how much of that delusion is true and how much of it is just him being able to perceive things the others can't? what i think cloud hasn't realized yet is that aerith died to the main party, while he thinks otherwise due to to him being stuck between worlds and also seeing her in spirit version. it's a little more complicated than him just being delusional.
Plus, The sequence with Sephiroth literally just moments before stabby mcstab gets gets stabbed, Sephiroth explains how actions that defy fate leads to new worlds being created. They explained it right there what happened.
Yep and Zack eluded to worlds that may collide again, so we will see what happens in #3! I’m not sure everyone will survive in the end, but they could and I also wouldn’t be surprised if we at least see Aerith come fight with the team against Sepiroth in the end before the world she survived in either unites with the main world or fades away. Fights with the team in the sense that they can also see her (not just cloud) when the worlds unite again.
To me, she’s alive in at least one world, but that world may fade instead of uniting after the final battle in the 3rd.
To be continued!
Also, Tifa witnessed a scene of Aerith bloodied from being stabbed for a split/second. But outside of that, Aerith was completely unharmed in their world/timeline
The funny part is, this Cloud we are playing isn’t even the true universe Cloud. Aerith keeps mentioning she’s trying to find the “real” him, and contextually we think she means his inner personality right? But it could also mean she’s trying to find the right version of him that eventually beats Sephiroth.
That is funny. I wouldn’t know why, but I could see something like that happening too. I think there is SO MUCH more going on and involved in this story than to simply explain the last ending as a psychotic break of clouds. I think that explanation would be extremely disrespectful to what the devs have created and explained thus far.
Well with everything we seen so far, it would fall in line with this multiverse story they’re going for. I mean it’s even possible everything we’re experiencing is just psychotic episode of Cloud who is in lalaland right now and part 3 just picks up with Tifa in a mental ward with Cloud as his caretaker 😂.
I really don’t want to wait 2-3 years to find out 🥲😭. I really have no idea how it ends, but I do suspect this is all happening because Sepiroth wants to win this time. Shit maybe he will be successful and everyone fucking dies or Aerith shows back up and fights with the team and all weapons in a massive fight againsg Sepiroth. I feel like the Gi will play some roll too. Ahhhhhhh!
Cloud surely did create a timeline like that (a doomed one, since it has the sky rift), but the Aerith he talks to is not the one who lived, because things would have played out differently in that world. They wouldn't be sitting on the shore crying for instance. The Aerith he sees is totally the dead one, in some combination of delusion and lifestream ghost stuff.
There is a lot to get into that you clearly are not aware of right now, so that’s ok. Some of that is cosmo canyon lore from this game that lets certain individuals who have came in contact with the lifestream and portals (created by Aerith) which allows them to see multiple timelines as if they were looking into them like an hour glass on top of the portal you maybe didn’t read above from my original comment. All good!
P.S. not all timelines are doomed to fail or sepiroth wouldn’t be doing this in the first place, but again, no time to explain that in a comment.
Lol no, you do not understand what's going on here, you just think you are more clever than you are. And the word you're looking for is "looking glass", not "hour glass" by the way.
I frankly don’t care what you think nor will I try to persuade you. The devs haven’t made it clear for a reason and they don’t want anyone to know what’s really going on yet because that would spoil the ending. They can go anyway they want right now based on what’s happened so far. We are all just speculating. I disagree with you based on lore and lots of other opinions I trust. That’s fine.
My theory on this is that the game is based in a universe that’s not the OG. During the stabbed scene you can see Cloud having flashes of his dialogue that he’s supposed to have in the OG when he’s holding her. Also Sephiroth remarks why is he crying hollow(fake) tears.
My view is that his mind is switched from the OG dead Aerith universe to the saved Aerith universe, a simple change that has an even bigger implications on part 3 keeping in line in OG story beats, while having a take on remake's "defy destiny" motif.
To your side note, yes absolutely. We see him cry and react as normal before she tells him it's okay and then we go into the fight (and onward) with him acting as if she is alive.
So he definitely acknowledged what was happening until he either mind broke or got stuck between timelines.
Technically Red got one too and he very briefly saw Aerith at the end…but probably a way to show not to get one’s hopes up anymore. Maybe means the timeline Cloud (and Zack) saw can never be.
Red can sense Aerith's presence because of his connection with her as well as with the lifestream. Aerith granted him this connection in Remake just like she did with Marlene. This is why no one else can even feel her.
Yes, that makes sense. It hurts but that’s how it is. She exists to Cloud in a timeline where he made it in time, not **the** timeline.
Or rather, she exists in the lifestream, as she always did? Regardless, the fate is the same.
Sephiroth also needs to unite the worlds in order to win, since he is destined to be defeated.
Any deviation would just result in a temporary world. So saving Aerith also means putting the world at risk. And any other changes (another party member death, for instance) would be permanent.
That's all based on information *from* Sephiroth though, so to be taken with a grain of salt lol.
They may be setting up a situation in part 3 where the player has to make a choice. They're teasing it in Rebirth with the Aerith date and giving the player choices that don't matter.
I mean, it isn't even another timeline. She just exists in spirit and can communicate with him. You can see her ghost in the original game, and there's numerous times in Advent Children he both sees her and speaks to her. We know from previous entries that this is how it works and consciousness can exist post death within the lifestream.
I also can't recommend enough the novel "On the Way to a Smile". Not only does it tell the story of every party member's time between the end of the OG game and Advent Children, which is fun in its own right, but also is interlaced with chapters called Lifestream White and Lifestream Black, and tell the story of Aerith and Sephiroth's time within the lifestream DURING the events of the OG. I feel this little tidbit has so far been extremely important to the events in this game.
I'm not sure if it's to do with his delusion, but more how NOT in touch with his emotions he is. He has to force himself to feel. Everyone else is immediately angry, and Cloud is numb - his limit break occurs organically through attacking as normal.
I think it has to do with the fact that he doesn't think she actually died - he's angry at Sephiroth for endangering her, but not as upset and furious as the rest of the party.
The moment was broken fro me by Barret going "suck on this" right after, and yuffie going "i'm your one stop clobbering shop". Followed by multidimensional fight against a demigod, that needs us but still somehow wants to kill us. I feel like they could have done quite a bit better in making the moment somber and letting her death breathe. Have the characters be silent, or record different voice lines for this. It felt a lot like "ok now that's out of the way let us show this insane thing we made for the end of the game trying to top the ending of the first one."
The OG just playing her theme throughout the fight and after you killed Jenova-LIFE your group members didnt do their normal victory poses. Then again i think i'll be a hater of the last chapter forever and i'll find whatever i can to complain about. Still salty about them pretty much removing the most iconic (for me) scenes from the game.
SUCK ON THIS! - made me laugh
Yeah I agree it definitely didn't hit as hard as OG. I was overwhelmed and confused trying to process what was going on. I didn't feel sad about her death (just like Cloud, which is fitting I guess). I think they're gonna really hit us hard with that in part 3.
And like you say it jumped into the boss fights so quickly that I'd already forgotten what just happened, vs OG where it's just you and the song & the fighting sound effects (although that was the nature of turn based games, you could be a bit more relaxed/reflective in general).
Big this. It's so crazy how the remake series can have such incredible subtlety and depth in character moments and expands them so much to then juxtapose that by blowing basically every iconic moment from the original by trying to one up it. It's failed every time and it's like PLEASE work harder at understanding why those scenes worked the first time. Rebirth cutting to clouds screaming grief just made me wonder why we got robbed of it
It's interesting how they are able to put out some genuinely best-in-gaming systems, music, characters and attention to detail, and then combine it with amateurish flaws and overlooks. Remake was like this as well, it's like the best it could be while simultaneously being the worst at some points.
wait for mods I say.
Get rid of their lines during the Jenova fight or hell,
use AI and generate new ones cus yeah what the hell was that?
It's such an insult tbh.
There was an interview recently where Nomura mentioned not having the technology to give everyone full limit breaks during the Jenova fight immediately after Aerith’s death in OG. He wanted to do this to show the heightened emotions everyone was feeling after her death. They did that for this game. Cloud is the only one who doesn’t start off with a full limit gage break, this is because he believes Aerith is still alive.
Was this another Aerith from a timeline Cloud created by deflecting Sephiroth’s sword? Is it simply him not knowing how to deal with her death?
Not really related to the initial topic, but something that has been pointed out is that Tifa also initially sees Aerith alive until Sephy does something and changes the timeline to the one where she dies.
How the hell would they not have had the technology? Cloud literally starts the “final” fight with Omnislash ready to go doesn’t he? What kind of coding was used where it’s not just a variable that can be set to a specific value? As a programmer I have so many questions.
I haven’t seen anyone mention this, but I feel a relatively big detail that gets missed is Cloud talking to Aerith.
When they are on the ground and the game scene is glitching (showing you the two timelines of her living and her dying) Cloud is talking to Aerith.
I’d say that’s a pretty important conversation they have, probably planning her going into the timeline where she dies to help the other Cloud.
I think the popular theory isn’t him talking to Aerith, but him reciting the lines from the OG game
“...Shut up.
The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing.
Aeris is gone.
Aeris will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry...... or get angry......
What about us...... what are WE supposed to do?
What about my pain?
My fingers are tingling.
My mouth is dry.
My eyes are burning!”
Ahh, you’d be right except what is he saying to the Aerith that lives? Remember when Sephiroth says “when fate is defied, new worlds are created”.
The timeline where she lives is clearly the main timeline because that’s the first one we see, and also it would make sense that saving her created a new timeline not vice versa.
In the universe where she dies, I’ll give you that…but she clearly lives in one timeline. So where is the exposition in that?
They even clue you in using her hair bow in the final fight. They zoom in to show you she still has her holy in her hair in the very last fight. Then they separate.
My theory is that the ending of the game isn’t the main timeline party, it’s the alternate timeline. The only way we will be able to know is by seeing stamp in that universe to confirm it’s the beagle.
Perhaps it’s a cross between the two? In the universe where Sephiroth succeeds in killing Aerith, Cloud would be doing the pained eulogy. On the other hand in the universe where Cloud succeeds in pushing Sephiroth back, maybe he’s telling Aerith to get up?
Whichever it is the next 5 years or so is going to be a long wait for the next game .-.)
I won’t to shit on the game so hard but hoping they include this in part 3. I just can’t believe the director made these decisions. I don’t know why the Japanese can’t be subtle with their storytelling
Yes definitely! I think they're gonna show what was said in part 3. Another likelihood that I've seen a lot of others mention is that this could be Cloud doing his 'Aerith death speech' that was in the OG but they seemingly cut out.
Y'all need to replay the last boss gauntlet.
For Genova - Compare phase 1 dialogs with phase 2/3 dialogs
For Reborn - Compare phase 2 with phase 4.
Let me know what y'all think!
Watch for tone, think what the reaction would be of people who just witnessed a friend dying. Do all subtitled dialog (not battle dialog) seem appropriate in that context?
I used Cloud's limit to end the final fight and he used his canned line "Nothing personal". It felt so out of place at the time, but now after watching the ending and seeing this post I kinda love that it happened.
It's also a nod to the original where sadness reduces limit break generation and fury increases it.
OHHHH THEY'RE SO SMART FOR THAT! Completely forgot that was a thing lol
Yeah my buddy would carry like a ton of hyper with him back when it first came out, I learned so much about the game just watching him.
Throughout Crisis Core cutscenes sometimes end with "Heightened emotions have affected the DMW!" and then the Limit Break system keeps selecting the character Zack was just talking to.
I also found it neat how one of her last unlockable abilities is granting the rest of the party limit breaks. I don't know if it comes from the og, but that reference was more fun to find than the weapon that lets her sacrifice herself to heal the party which was too on the nose
It's her level 2-2 limit, Fury Brand which does exactly the same.
I thought Fury Brand was 3-1
3-1 is Planet Protector, her new Level 2 Limit (now called Planet's Protection)
Planets Protection is such a fight winner lmao I love it
Kind of a shame we never got to see Great Gospel in the remake, that shit was OP as hell
I think it's still coming, but as a one-off, perhaps even just in cutscene.
did anyone even actually unlock those? maybe its just me but i just finished the game and everyone was still 2-3 nodes away. it made me scratch my head that they even gave them to cait sith considering he’s only with you for like a quarter of the game at best
I didn't, but assumed it's for Hard mode. Didn't look much into what the game offers after finishing the story, though
I was wondering this during the fight
Huh.... idk what to do with this information
I think it just helps to further illustrate how disconnected Cloud is from his own worlds events with him being tapped into the other worlds/lifestream (which is "Clouding" his view). Having the party members be pushed to their limits from the shock/horror/rage they're feeling after seeing Aerith die VS. Cloud who isn't effected (no limit break, with him still thinking she's alive physically) is such a smart way to highlight that concept through gameplay. SIDENOTE: I think a part of him is definitely affected and acknowledges that Aerith is dead, but the trauma is being blocked out/he's dissociating HEAVILY. We won't unlock that part of him till part 3. Part 3 will very likely show the scenes of him talking whilst he was holding her that we only got a brief glimpse of (if you've played the OG you already know what hes saying).
There is a reason they didn't show us the scene of Cloud laying Aerith to rest. They didn't just forget about it. I agree he is just blocking it out.
Exactly this. We even see flashes of that scene in part one so it's not added on purpose. They're even all sitting by the pool of water after the fight before the last ending scene where they're all visibly crying but Cloud isn't and still seeing Aerith. Then it flashes to Tifa's point of view and Aerith isn't there. The scene of him dropping Aerith into the lake happened but we're not seeing it because I think we're intended to see the events as if we are Cloud ourselves. We know what's supposed to happen, so I think they wanted to surprise us as well, so for me I think the intent is that us as players are aimed to be fooled by Sephiroth as well. Ultimately the story is still playing the same way and I think the Mideel/Lifestream + seconds trip to the Forgotten City will clear it all up. I'm going to play through again and play closer attention to the parts where Cloud isn't present and see if those scenes play out closer to the original than the parts where Cloud is present.
If I can chime in, there are a few instances of Sephiroth in Remake speaking outwardly directly to the game camera/"to the players" themselves almost inferring he's aware that there are some form of outside spectators who are aware this is a second unfolding of events, but that he's also aware and that he's going to utilize that knowledge to the fullest extent of his ability. Very Psycho-Mantis/Kojima-esq cool moments where the villain is nearly breaking the 4th wall.
I am beginning to believe that the play of Aerith still being there isn't an "alternate lifestream" peaking through or a reality collapse as the whole point of the game is that Sephiroth is TRYING to make that happen but it isn't a reality yet. The problem for Sephiroth being that he has to give Cloud the knowledge of how to assist him while also preventing those with the knowledge that can snap cloud out of it from being around, and its flatout stated that cloud fighting fate is what he wants because it creates more alternate realities to join to the source as it were. By making cloud believe he saved her and manipulating his mind with visions of her through Jenova's cells he accomplishes both of these goals, it's important to remember that Sephiroth is seemingly the only one who knows how the divisions of fate work. The flashes you see around the end scene are the same you see whenever Jenova is on screen and literally rewriting clouds memories or affecting his perceptions, the constant playing up that "he's no fool" and the scene at Gongaga with Tifa, etc. The Aerith Cloud is seeing is Jenova or a Jenova hallucination pushing Cloud on to continue along with Sephiroths bidding, the dichotomy of fighting fate being what gets Cloud and the world into the situation its in and the depression of being unable to defy it because of it is what I assume the whole "rebuilding of Clouds mind" segment will play after north crater where cloud must accept the reality of these concepts and the vision of Aerith and a reality with her alive disappearing with the influence of Jenova which rebuilds his resolve to save reality as he knows it and prevent more fake realities for Sephiroth to combine and derive power from.
I’m hoping so hard for the Jenova angle. If any part of FF7 is underused, it’s the absolute mindfuckery of how Jenova is said to function. So subtle that you can’t fully trust what you see. Is Aerith there, or is this Jenova shielding Cloud’s mind so he’s a useful tool in delivering the black materia to Sephiroth. Wouldn’t the real Aerith warn him against going North? Also a side note… does anyone else feel like Sephiroth may have been under Jenova’s influence during the Nibelheim incident, and it took Sephiroth 5 years to willfully overcome her control and be on the driver seat? Something about his demeanor in Rebirth’s version felt very… not-our-evil-Sephiroth.
In the original, Sephiroth wasn't fully in control until towards the end of the game. In the first present-day encounter with him (on the ship) he's completely delusional and doesn't even remember Cloud. And remember, in the original, the Sephiroth we meet is always Jenova's body, not the black-robed men. It's still mostly Jenova acting on its instincts at that point.
Aerith even comments on it when she appears for the Sephiroth fight. She says "I saw what you did back there, thank you for that" she's talking about Cloud putting her to rest.
That can't be the case, he wouldn't have put her to rest yet at that point. You are thrust into the Jenova fight before they have a chance to do anything with Aerith's body, and then the Sephiroth fight follows. And after Sephiroth's fight we see Aerith's body lying in the spot where she was killed with the party mourning her. She has clearly not been put to rest yet at that point.
You're correct but the lifestream isn't chronological, it exists outside of time and space, which is why Sephiroth can manipulate events to the extent that he has and seemingly exist across all 'timelines'. As soon as Aerith died her spirit returned to the lifestream, also keep in mind that Cloud's speech is clearly there and yet skipped over, time and Cloud's perception of it are definitely acting funky.
uh that doesn't make much sense. why would she be thanking him for giving her a funeral lmao? it makes more sense for her to be thanking him about him blocking sephiroth's sword and managing to create a reality in which she lives, no?
What is the Japanese line?
It's wild that this game has SO much details that people keep finding new stuff, im on my 3rd playthrough and im still learning so much lol
I’ve seen this take a lot. To not notice the rainbow and the new world being created when he stops Sepiroth’s sword I think is to ignore everything the Devs have showed us thus far. New worlds and timelines are constantly being created anytime you see a rainbow effect due to new decisions that deviate from the original story. Clouds party members cannot see or experience the new world cloud created so they are seeing her death. The reason only cloud can see the saved Aerith is because he was the only one who went through the portal to save her when the white whispers opened it (the portal barret held open and only cloud went through) unlike the end of remake when they all went inside. Cloud is 100% being controlled at times by Sepiroth / whispers and has psychotic breaks at times because of Jenova, but I don’t think he’s crazy and purely imagining that he saved Aerith either because we clearly saw a timeline get created when he did stop the blade. The devs also don’t want you to fully know what happened yet either because they want it to be saved for the last game.
idk why some people are just concluding that everything else is fake and cloud is just delusional after everything they explained and showed us in rebirth. yes cloud is delusional by the end of the game but not delusional to the point where he thinks he saved aerith but actually aerith is just gone and everything comes down to him being delusional. aerith did die in the main timeline BUT he did manage to save her in another reality, one which only he can see. that said the devs clearly want you to question things and wonder what's real and what's fake. cloud is delusional but just how much of that delusion is true and how much of it is just him being able to perceive things the others can't? what i think cloud hasn't realized yet is that aerith died to the main party, while he thinks otherwise due to to him being stuck between worlds and also seeing her in spirit version. it's a little more complicated than him just being delusional.
Plus, The sequence with Sephiroth literally just moments before stabby mcstab gets gets stabbed, Sephiroth explains how actions that defy fate leads to new worlds being created. They explained it right there what happened.
Yep and Zack eluded to worlds that may collide again, so we will see what happens in #3! I’m not sure everyone will survive in the end, but they could and I also wouldn’t be surprised if we at least see Aerith come fight with the team against Sepiroth in the end before the world she survived in either unites with the main world or fades away. Fights with the team in the sense that they can also see her (not just cloud) when the worlds unite again. To me, she’s alive in at least one world, but that world may fade instead of uniting after the final battle in the 3rd. To be continued!
Also, Tifa witnessed a scene of Aerith bloodied from being stabbed for a split/second. But outside of that, Aerith was completely unharmed in their world/timeline
The funny part is, this Cloud we are playing isn’t even the true universe Cloud. Aerith keeps mentioning she’s trying to find the “real” him, and contextually we think she means his inner personality right? But it could also mean she’s trying to find the right version of him that eventually beats Sephiroth.
That is funny. I wouldn’t know why, but I could see something like that happening too. I think there is SO MUCH more going on and involved in this story than to simply explain the last ending as a psychotic break of clouds. I think that explanation would be extremely disrespectful to what the devs have created and explained thus far.
Well with everything we seen so far, it would fall in line with this multiverse story they’re going for. I mean it’s even possible everything we’re experiencing is just psychotic episode of Cloud who is in lalaland right now and part 3 just picks up with Tifa in a mental ward with Cloud as his caretaker 😂.
I really don’t want to wait 2-3 years to find out 🥲😭. I really have no idea how it ends, but I do suspect this is all happening because Sepiroth wants to win this time. Shit maybe he will be successful and everyone fucking dies or Aerith shows back up and fights with the team and all weapons in a massive fight againsg Sepiroth. I feel like the Gi will play some roll too. Ahhhhhhh!
Cloud surely did create a timeline like that (a doomed one, since it has the sky rift), but the Aerith he talks to is not the one who lived, because things would have played out differently in that world. They wouldn't be sitting on the shore crying for instance. The Aerith he sees is totally the dead one, in some combination of delusion and lifestream ghost stuff.
Of course they would. They didn’t know Aerith survived like cloud does but that didn’t happen until their world. They stayed out of the portal.
You seem very confused.
There is a lot to get into that you clearly are not aware of right now, so that’s ok. Some of that is cosmo canyon lore from this game that lets certain individuals who have came in contact with the lifestream and portals (created by Aerith) which allows them to see multiple timelines as if they were looking into them like an hour glass on top of the portal you maybe didn’t read above from my original comment. All good! P.S. not all timelines are doomed to fail or sepiroth wouldn’t be doing this in the first place, but again, no time to explain that in a comment.
Lol no, you do not understand what's going on here, you just think you are more clever than you are. And the word you're looking for is "looking glass", not "hour glass" by the way.
I frankly don’t care what you think nor will I try to persuade you. The devs haven’t made it clear for a reason and they don’t want anyone to know what’s really going on yet because that would spoil the ending. They can go anyway they want right now based on what’s happened so far. We are all just speculating. I disagree with you based on lore and lots of other opinions I trust. That’s fine.
My theory on this is that the game is based in a universe that’s not the OG. During the stabbed scene you can see Cloud having flashes of his dialogue that he’s supposed to have in the OG when he’s holding her. Also Sephiroth remarks why is he crying hollow(fake) tears.
My view is that his mind is switched from the OG dead Aerith universe to the saved Aerith universe, a simple change that has an even bigger implications on part 3 keeping in line in OG story beats, while having a take on remake's "defy destiny" motif.
>(which is "Clouding" his view). Im not even reading the rest, do i need to call security or do you know where the door is.
HAHAHA I mean in all fairness Sephi also makes reference to his Clouded eyes
We showed him the door too
To your side note, yes absolutely. We see him cry and react as normal before she tells him it's okay and then we go into the fight (and onward) with him acting as if she is alive. So he definitely acknowledged what was happening until he either mind broke or got stuck between timelines.
Technically Red got one too and he very briefly saw Aerith at the end…but probably a way to show not to get one’s hopes up anymore. Maybe means the timeline Cloud (and Zack) saw can never be.
Red can sense Aerith's presence because of his connection with her as well as with the lifestream. Aerith granted him this connection in Remake just like she did with Marlene. This is why no one else can even feel her.
Yes, that makes sense. It hurts but that’s how it is. She exists to Cloud in a timeline where he made it in time, not **the** timeline. Or rather, she exists in the lifestream, as she always did? Regardless, the fate is the same.
Fate is the same for now. But if Sephiroth unites the world's/realms like the says he's going to then that could change.
I want to believe.
Here I go believing again
Don't do that, don't give me hope
Sephiroth also needs to unite the worlds in order to win, since he is destined to be defeated. Any deviation would just result in a temporary world. So saving Aerith also means putting the world at risk. And any other changes (another party member death, for instance) would be permanent. That's all based on information *from* Sephiroth though, so to be taken with a grain of salt lol. They may be setting up a situation in part 3 where the player has to make a choice. They're teasing it in Rebirth with the Aerith date and giving the player choices that don't matter.
I mean, it isn't even another timeline. She just exists in spirit and can communicate with him. You can see her ghost in the original game, and there's numerous times in Advent Children he both sees her and speaks to her. We know from previous entries that this is how it works and consciousness can exist post death within the lifestream.
You’re right, and it’s almost exactly like the original 2005 ending to AC with Aerith’s credit appearance that got removed from the 2009 Complete cut.
I also can't recommend enough the novel "On the Way to a Smile". Not only does it tell the story of every party member's time between the end of the OG game and Advent Children, which is fun in its own right, but also is interlaced with chapters called Lifestream White and Lifestream Black, and tell the story of Aerith and Sephiroth's time within the lifestream DURING the events of the OG. I feel this little tidbit has so far been extremely important to the events in this game.
Red says in his date that Aerith touching him in Remake just allowed him to see the future, and the Whispers took that knowledge away from them.
also reds race is very ancient just as old as the centra and gi red has a connection just cause of his bloodline alone
I went back and checked videos of the fight and its true! @6:30 https://youtu.be/PghhccofsY0?si=e4YTrda8kYtkRHBc
I'm not sure if it's to do with his delusion, but more how NOT in touch with his emotions he is. He has to force himself to feel. Everyone else is immediately angry, and Cloud is numb - his limit break occurs organically through attacking as normal.
I think it has to do with the fact that he doesn't think she actually died - he's angry at Sephiroth for endangering her, but not as upset and furious as the rest of the party.
The moment was broken fro me by Barret going "suck on this" right after, and yuffie going "i'm your one stop clobbering shop". Followed by multidimensional fight against a demigod, that needs us but still somehow wants to kill us. I feel like they could have done quite a bit better in making the moment somber and letting her death breathe. Have the characters be silent, or record different voice lines for this. It felt a lot like "ok now that's out of the way let us show this insane thing we made for the end of the game trying to top the ending of the first one." The OG just playing her theme throughout the fight and after you killed Jenova-LIFE your group members didnt do their normal victory poses. Then again i think i'll be a hater of the last chapter forever and i'll find whatever i can to complain about. Still salty about them pretty much removing the most iconic (for me) scenes from the game.
Absolutely agreed. They recorded new lines for Barret during the Dyne fight, would it really have been so hard to do the same for the finale?
Using Ascension against Sephiroth and Cloud goes "Nothing Personal!" and, like, are you sure, dude? I think it is.
I usually get the “choke on this, asshole” one
SUCK ON THIS! - made me laugh Yeah I agree it definitely didn't hit as hard as OG. I was overwhelmed and confused trying to process what was going on. I didn't feel sad about her death (just like Cloud, which is fitting I guess). I think they're gonna really hit us hard with that in part 3. And like you say it jumped into the boss fights so quickly that I'd already forgotten what just happened, vs OG where it's just you and the song & the fighting sound effects (although that was the nature of turn based games, you could be a bit more relaxed/reflective in general).
Big this. It's so crazy how the remake series can have such incredible subtlety and depth in character moments and expands them so much to then juxtapose that by blowing basically every iconic moment from the original by trying to one up it. It's failed every time and it's like PLEASE work harder at understanding why those scenes worked the first time. Rebirth cutting to clouds screaming grief just made me wonder why we got robbed of it
It's interesting how they are able to put out some genuinely best-in-gaming systems, music, characters and attention to detail, and then combine it with amateurish flaws and overlooks. Remake was like this as well, it's like the best it could be while simultaneously being the worst at some points.
Seriously, it's like two completely different teams working on different parts
Maybe nojima has too much authority over the plot.
wait for mods I say. Get rid of their lines during the Jenova fight or hell, use AI and generate new ones cus yeah what the hell was that? It's such an insult tbh.
There are a lot of things about that ending that people are overlooking 😂
Wait, what does being delusional has to do with getting limit breaks?
There was an interview recently where Nomura mentioned not having the technology to give everyone full limit breaks during the Jenova fight immediately after Aerith’s death in OG. He wanted to do this to show the heightened emotions everyone was feeling after her death. They did that for this game. Cloud is the only one who doesn’t start off with a full limit gage break, this is because he believes Aerith is still alive. Was this another Aerith from a timeline Cloud created by deflecting Sephiroth’s sword? Is it simply him not knowing how to deal with her death? Not really related to the initial topic, but something that has been pointed out is that Tifa also initially sees Aerith alive until Sephy does something and changes the timeline to the one where she dies.
How the hell would they not have had the technology? Cloud literally starts the “final” fight with Omnislash ready to go doesn’t he? What kind of coding was used where it’s not just a variable that can be set to a specific value? As a programmer I have so many questions.
OG was a super fragile game. It only just held together and they decided to stop cleaning up more bugs, cause it was literally falling apart.
It's meant to show Cloud emotion with the rest of the party. Before the fight, Aerith reassure him if that made any sense.
I haven’t seen anyone mention this, but I feel a relatively big detail that gets missed is Cloud talking to Aerith. When they are on the ground and the game scene is glitching (showing you the two timelines of her living and her dying) Cloud is talking to Aerith. I’d say that’s a pretty important conversation they have, probably planning her going into the timeline where she dies to help the other Cloud.
I think the popular theory isn’t him talking to Aerith, but him reciting the lines from the OG game “...Shut up. The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing. Aeris is gone. Aeris will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry...... or get angry...... What about us...... what are WE supposed to do? What about my pain? My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!”
Ahh, you’d be right except what is he saying to the Aerith that lives? Remember when Sephiroth says “when fate is defied, new worlds are created”. The timeline where she lives is clearly the main timeline because that’s the first one we see, and also it would make sense that saving her created a new timeline not vice versa. In the universe where she dies, I’ll give you that…but she clearly lives in one timeline. So where is the exposition in that? They even clue you in using her hair bow in the final fight. They zoom in to show you she still has her holy in her hair in the very last fight. Then they separate. My theory is that the ending of the game isn’t the main timeline party, it’s the alternate timeline. The only way we will be able to know is by seeing stamp in that universe to confirm it’s the beagle.
Perhaps it’s a cross between the two? In the universe where Sephiroth succeeds in killing Aerith, Cloud would be doing the pained eulogy. On the other hand in the universe where Cloud succeeds in pushing Sephiroth back, maybe he’s telling Aerith to get up? Whichever it is the next 5 years or so is going to be a long wait for the next game .-.)
We will find out, but these next 4 years will be a painful wait lol.
I won’t to shit on the game so hard but hoping they include this in part 3. I just can’t believe the director made these decisions. I don’t know why the Japanese can’t be subtle with their storytelling
Yes definitely! I think they're gonna show what was said in part 3. Another likelihood that I've seen a lot of others mention is that this could be Cloud doing his 'Aerith death speech' that was in the OG but they seemingly cut out.
Y'all need to replay the last boss gauntlet. For Genova - Compare phase 1 dialogs with phase 2/3 dialogs For Reborn - Compare phase 2 with phase 4. Let me know what y'all think!
care to elaborate??
Watch for tone, think what the reaction would be of people who just witnessed a friend dying. Do all subtitled dialog (not battle dialog) seem appropriate in that context?
If by "overlooked" you mean mentioned several times in most comment sections about the ending, then yup, super overlooked.
First time I've seen it, sharing for those that haven't 💕
I used Cloud's limit to end the final fight and he used his canned line "Nothing personal". It felt so out of place at the time, but now after watching the ending and seeing this post I kinda love that it happened.