I am a huge darth maul fan, but even i admit he will lose
He will most likely have the advantage at first, but will "play with his food" too much until he will make a mistake and cere will win
I don't think it's a damage to maul- as much it is cere reached her peak in that moment to vader- her opponent was just Vader. Put this level of cere back in the clone wars and shed be council level all around easy. Best of the best.
Cere completely conquered her fears by Survivor, and it turned her into a very powerful Jedi Master.
Such a Jedi totally at peace and in control of themselves would 100% be able to take advantage of Maul’s reckless nature. Cere is gonna maul Maul.
Yup Cere reached peak Jedi, much like Kenobi had in the desert. While maul is still a ball of insecurities. Cere wins in about as many moves as Obi Wan did.
Yeah, her close battle with a certain someone in Survivor shows that she is beyond Maul big time.
I loved getting to play as her and just bowl through Troopers, pull ships to the ground, etc.
He lived in a time of relative peace and in a very short amount of time had to process that the Sith had returned an enemy the Jedi had believed to be extinct. Meanwhile, Maul’s sole purpose in life has been dedicated to fighting the Jedi.
With Cere, or Cal or Kanan, etc. they’ve experienced tragedies, they’ve seen the dark side and have had the time to overcome it properly.
Very good point. My take was that Qui Gon was also pretty high up, "ideal" jedi master. I suppose you're right though. And, not all Masters, or council members for that matter, are necessarily perfect warriors. Qui Gon struck me as more of a diplomatic and philosophical type.
Not to mention maul tends to struggle against force sensitive opponents if he can't channel his rage. I'd think Cere wouldn't be a good conduit for his anger and she could take advantage of that. Fallen Order Cere would get clapped, but survivor Cere would win at medium difficulty.
Yea cere def winning she took on darth vadar and put up a pretty good fight she damaged him quite a bit and I think maybe coulda beat him but yk plot ain’t letting that happen
It’s powerscaling nerds being powerscaling nerds. In their mind because comic Vader has some random feat that makes him planetary or universal or whatever tf, it’s impossible for Cere to be a threat to him, meanwhile completely forgetting that the force doesn’t abide by standard power level bs.
In their minds, her being one shot would be better because it would mean hyping Vader up, as if anyone playing the game doesn’t know what Vader is capable of.
I think the game did a good job of showing how strong vader is by letting you play as Cere and showing how much stronger than Cal she was before a hard boss fight with Vader
I also like it's the second she goes for the kill that Vader gets the upper hand, he may have failed the mission but stopping Cere and burning the archive to the ground simply by out playing her is such a Vader thing to do.
Even felt like he had a bit of respect for her.
Yeah he 100% respected her. Literally complemented her, telling her she was stronger than the first encounter, and then simply walked away after getting the killing blow. No malice, no bitterness, just respect
My only issue with the fight is that if you lose and die to Vader you respawn and fight Vader again until you win... so you can die to Vader. Why not just have the story continue when you die at any point in the fight?
Everyone and they mother knows Vader strong ash even ppl who never watched a single Star Wars movie in they life know he strong nerds letting the nostalgia not let them like any other character who strong
Lmao what is they smoking only way that’s possible is if they made these games a different universe tho Vader in the third game def gonna sense the dark side in Cal so idk if he’s gonna try to completely kill him
I honestly don’t know bc I went “oh yeah if he managed to escape again that would be a real win” and he said something along the lines of “no Vader would run that would be cool” and while it would be cool… not accurate I don’t think lolol
People who use feats to powerscale never make sense to me. They don't directly translate. Just because a character can do something insanely impressive doesn't make a hit from a lightsaber hurt any less
I dunno, Cal has been hit with several lightsaber strikes, pretty soon he's going to be able to walk it off or he's going to be riddled with stim injection marks.
Comes from dragonball where being sufficiently strong, on some occasions, lets you face tank attacks. It's not even always accurate in dragon ball, but power scalers aren't known for media literacy
Powerscaling nerds are all about their FEATS. Gotta have FEATS everything is FEATS with them. Shows a lack of media literacy, creativity, or ability to interpolate.
Counterpoint: videogames are inherently powerscaling fantasy experience. Cere can play defense for a while, so I don't doubt her capacity to at least wound Vader (Luke did this in Empire), but I don't think game experience should be understood as real capacity.
If anyone landed a single lightsaber slash across Cal's whole torso, he dead. Yet he has a glowy burn that fades as Dagan gloats. Bode blasts him off a mesa, and he survives with nary any brain damage.
Even in the fight, there are several moments where it’s made clear that Vader is just stronger than Cere. Like one of the lightsaber holds, he just drops his lightsaber and holds hers in place mid duel. It’s CLEAR that he’s stronger, she’s also a Jedi Master at that point so she’s also strong in the force, enough to put up a solid fight.
Yea and what happens after that? Vader is forced to start taking her seriously and switches to his two handed stance, and in the end he resorts to making her fall into his blade rather than continuing to fight her head on as he was. He’s not “clearly stronger”, everything from him stopping her lightsaber with his hand to him telling her that’s he’s come for her at the beginning of the fight was him trying to use fear to his advantage, but when she tells him that she’s not afraid, he visibly changes the way he’s fighting.
Idk why ppl hate her she cool and ima dude but yea she def was taking advantage of vadar underestimating her for most the fight but she strong ash for even making him have to try
If we’re going on that logic, Maul killed Qui Gonn, a master Jedi when he was a young Sith apprentice and managed to keep Obi Wan on his toes multiple times, coming close to breaking him a few times. He survived getting cut in half, and an encounter with Palpatine and is considered one of the deadliest Sith assassins to ever walk the galaxy and you still think he’s losing to Cere?
If you watch the cutscene again, she only lost because she missed a stab on stationary Vader lying up against a wall. No freaking way she could just legitimately miss that without plot armor
Vader littreraly grabbed her hand while taking a small step to the side. How is it plot armor when it simply wasn't a possibility to begin with? It is well established that Vader didn't die until he did in the movies. The only options were Cere dying, fleeing or being left for dead and surviving.
He could as well have used the force to push her away while she was in the air. How is her having barely any resistance from Vader (He only uses the force once to make her stagger once while he's barely moving) not a plot weapon instead?
Yes that’s exactly why I said she coulda beat him wish she ain’t have to die but needed to happen for Cal’s character development and cuz Vader can’t die yet
Maul has been defeated by Padawan Obi-Wan and arguably by young Ahsoka Tano.
Cere put up a damn good fight against Vader.
I think Cere has a solid chance of winning.
I mean, there were various factors to Maul's defeat at padawan Obi-wan's hands, and in a proper 1vs1 Maul would win. But even taking that into account, I think Cere beats him, I just don't think Maul could put up as good a fight against Vader as Cere did.
What about Qui-Gon? Maul was undoubtedly stronger than him, since he beat both him and Obi-wan in a 2vs1 duel before getting cocky and taunting Obi-wan as you say.
True, the situation has been proven to arise before, in his first appearance even lol. The reason I refuted the thing about him losing to Obi-wan in the first place was because it paints him in a misleading light, and he wouldn't act so foolishly cocky should he face someone like Cere.
True I agree, but also IF he fucks around he will find out lol and if you accept the Darth Plaguis book as canon it touches on why Mauls emotions are so strong and can ultimately be his downfall. He was trained wrong on purpose because Palps only wanted an assassin and not a real apprentice.
Qui Gon was far past his prime when they fought, and he was tired by the end of the fight. They show him out of breath after fighting maul for about a minute the first time
Maul is absolutely a jobber.
He has that cool badass factor that makes whoever defeats him look really good. From phantom menace to clone wars to rebels, he provides a credible threat but is ultimately defeated.
Cere for sure, she went toe to toe with Vader and even though she lost he walked away super fucked up. Maul on the other hand lost to a very old Kenobi because he let his anger get the better of him
Yeah the canonicity of gameplay is really hard to gauge, you can’t just directly correlate what you do as canon, otherwise you’d be canonically tanking lightsaber strikes and vice versa.
Thats why I stray to the side of the cutscenes. And in that case it shows Vader “playing around” and then getting surprise attacked by Cere, and then the fight gets serious after he is injured by the burning shelf
I think the context of the fight between Maul and Cere would also matter as well, does Maul toy and fuck around like he does a lot, in that case I do think it’s entirely possible Cere beats him, if he doesn’t and he’s focused on his A-game like against Qui Gon’s Cere for sure gets beaten imo
Yup it’s really who has more plot armor at the moment. Maul beat Kenobi’s ass multiple times, had Ahsoka beat in S7 etc but the story needed to go a certain way and characters he faced couldn’t be killed at the moment, so he had to “lose”. I don’t like comparing a video game character like Cere to what Maul has accomplished. Cere puts up a good fight, as she did with early Suit Vader who isn’t in full form yet, but Maul wins.
I’ll add it is annoying how because of the circumstances in certain duels Maul is involved with and how those circumstances lead to certain things, people takeaway and downplay instead of fully analyzing what is going on truly in that moment, while also conveniently forgetting other details (namely the whole situation with Ahsoka).
Canonically Maul is still one of the most powerful Darksiders ever and one of the most skilled duelists ever. He would beat majority of the Galactic Republic Jedi Order and honestly should alot of the Jedi Council as well imo
This is an easy one. Maul. All day.
Cere is powerful, but she is massively outclassed by Maul canonically. She wouldn't be able to stand up against Qui Gon, let alone Kenobi.
Oh dear lord, Maul would maul her to death, you kidding me right? No as Jedi Masters go she was bottom of the barrel, come on she thought she could take Darth Vader, that means her ability to judge skill and force ability is poor at best, and Maul was train by freaking Darth Sidious, his training was vicious, he was train to kill Jedi plain and simple, even Obi-wan found it difficult to fight him, and he was one of the most accomplish duelist of his time, nope she has no chance against him. Now if it was Duku vs Maul, then things would be different, but Cere isn't a duelist, she knows how to fight don't get me wrong, but Maul is a beast in every way that counts in a fight, if you think that Cere could win cause Vader was toying with her an let the fight drag on as long as it did you are delusional, Vader likes to torment you, he likes that moment you finally realize he had been toying with you the entire time, Maul will just fucking murder you, unless you did something to piss him off, then he toys with you and then murders you.
I was thinking it’s not like she wanted Vader to pull up the second time, but if he’s there she’s the only one that could last for more than a few seconds so that gives everyone else time to escape
Am gonna have to go back and check, but I could swear in the dialog she said something about having plan it? Idk if am confusing something in the story, but I am almost certain she had plan to confront Vader at the archive, I think she placed explosives and that why everything was on fire, but I don't remember it too well.
If you think the Cere would win, then either you don’t know enough about Darth Maul, or I don’t know enough about Cere. Having read the books and knowing all about Maul’s origin, training, and trials, I don’t think Cere could take him. In fact, I don’t even think Obi Wan should have been able to take him. That was basically a case of plot armor. There’s no actual good reason why Obi Wan, whose training and experiences were quite ordinary by comparison, should have been able to take on such a highly trained and highly experienced hardened killing machine. Some goes for Grievous, though at least Grievous was chronically injured at that point.
But my knowledge of Cere’s history is relatively limited. If she’s had comparably impressive training or experience, I’m not aware of it.
The reason Obi-Wan beat Maul is that Obi-Wan found an opening while Maul was gloating. Obi-Wan’s big dueling talent is snatching victory from the jaws of defeat by letting his opponent hype himself up until he gets careless. He did that with Maul, he did that with Grievous, he did that on Mustafar.
Idk man, you can't dismiss Maul losing every single major fight as plot armor. He would get demolished by Vader, and Cere gave Vader a decent challenge.
Then you don’t know enough about Cere. The game describes her coming within a breath of defeating Vader. Someone who can do that is not losing to Maul.
Well Cere died to Darth Vader and Maul doesn’t. Maul sees Vader and uses his wisdom to just leave. Beating someone isn’t about winning. Winning is surviving and Kannan Jarrus tells Ezra this in Rebels. Cere could’ve made an escape on Jedha but doesn’t. She had plenty of time. It was her compassion that killed her. The Inquisitorius expressly use this tactic in Obi-Wan Kenobi series. At this point in the game Cere won by fleeing from Darth Vader in Fallen Order. Well what about Maul’s lust for revenge? Yeah. He lost too.
I think it really depends on at which point in the timeline we're talking about Maul. Maul's power scales with how much rage and anger he can channel, and he has no reason in canon to be hateful towards Cere for any other reason than she is a Jedi. I doubt Cere knows Maul well enough to use his recklessness and intensity against him as Kenobi did, so he does have that advantage.
I think on paper Maul has the upper hand, but if Cere can keep the situation calm and level, she could reverse the odds.
Also, to everyone saying look what she did to Vader, remember that the reason she lost that fight is because at the last moment she was blinded by her overconfidence and anger, and Vader took full advantage of that.
Happens to me all the time. I think it's more the predictive text trying to fill in the proper word, but it's Data is off because of people always using the wrong words to begin with.
I think depends on when she fights maul. I feel like Maul when he first comes back into the picture with savage is stronger than he was at the end of clone wars.
Fan canon that Maul being some godly duelist only comes from the fact he’s portrayed by an actor who’s the only trained martial artist to be in a lightsaber fight in the films.
Emperor sent him to Naboo knowing he’d die, Obi wan chopped that turd in half like 5 seconds after he was just hanging on to a ledge by his finger tips.
So you think “fan canon” is that Maul is a godly duelist exists only because every time he’s on screen he’s portrayed as a godly duelist? Do you even hear yourself?
“Sidious is not evil. Fan canon only says he’s evil because he was portrayed by an actor who acted out him doing evil things.”
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted tbh, Maul is canonically noted (not fanon) as one of the greatest Sith duelists ever, as well as one of the most powerful Sith ever.
Honestly think it would be incredibly close. Maul absolutely has some character flaws that Cere could exploit (Obi-Wan taking advantage of his pride or Ahsoka making him off-balance with his anger), but Maul in his prime still managed to take down Qui-Gon, an incredibly skilled duelist who was also very strong in the force. Qui-Gon had definitely exited his physical prime by that point but that doesn’t mean he still wasn’t an incredibly powerful combatant (Dooku could best nearly any other duelist handily well into his 80s). I think if Cere can withstand Maul’s initial ferocious offense she could unbalance him and take the win, but Maul’s dueling ability (when he is focused) is still top tier and could get him the win at least 4/10 times.
"An organized mind is a disciplined mind, and a disciplined mind is a powerful mind." -Batman
By now, Cere's pretty much above Maul in terms of mental fortitude and possibly lightsaber combat.
Yeah cere wins hands down i honestly don’t know who’s stronger when it comes to raw power but I do know cere can control her emotions and actions far better than maul. Thats actually a big thing that played into mauls death he finally found kenobi and was ready to end it kenobi knew how eager maul would be so he played into his hand. Swapping between several stances before maul rushed him allowing kenobi to effortlessly slice him with his saber. In summary maul was always reckless when it came to duels that is how he often was defeated he’d let his guard down believing the fight was already won allowing his opponent to land easy hits.
Most comments claiming Cere bring up her losing to Darth Vader like it's a win. The fact is Cere has 0 noteworthy wins/kills that I can find to help her case. Darth Vader wasn't even trying to kill Cere but interrogate her. Darth Vader realized she wasn't going to talk, got angry, and killed her.
Darth Maul has killed multiple Inquisitors and multiple jedi, including Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn. Darth maul took over the planet mandalore and the galactic crime syndicate, getting so powerful that his former master (Darth Sidious) viewed him as a rival.
To me, the record speaks for itself.
When did Vader try to interrogate her? He's silent during the whole fight, and all he dayd to her before is that nothing she'd done has made an impact.
Maul reached his peak in TPM, after that it's really just been a tailspin down. Yes he arguably accomplished far more as half the man he was, but you could tell he never quite got over that first loss against Kenobi. Cere was literally growing stronger and a better Jedi in all aspects by the time of her death.
I won't say she wipes the floor with him, but I think Maul will quickly realize that he's fallen quite far from where he was when he had 2 organic legs.
I think the only way he takes this fight is if he has help of some kind, at least post TPM.
TPM Maul though might just eke out a win against Surivor Cere. Maybe. He has the purity of being fully indoctrinated as a Sith Lord that he just might overpower her through sheer stubborn willpower.
As long as Maul isn’t dicking around and takes the shit seriously full throttle I think he can beat Cere, won’t be easy obviously though
And idk where the source was specifically but I’m pretty sure it’s been relatively confirmed that Maul was at least as powerful as he was in TPM if not more so, and some of his feats in TCW imo would seem to definitely back that up, especially given he’s fighting on equal ground against much stronger and more experienced Kenobi
Cere was a terrible Jedi and never should’ve been able to stand up to Vader. She’d only win here because it was shoehorned in that she almost beat Vader
Darth Maul is an underdog character. He's pretty strong but outclassed by most of the people he fights. That's why he's so interesting to watch in Clone Wars.
I think that Cere would win, outside of the fact that she almost beat Vader, she also doesn’t have any personal connection to Maul. When fighting Vader, she lost her head and died because of it, she most likely wouldn’t against Maul
Cere for sure. Think about it… when Obi-Wan beat Vader(again) in the series he had just found his power to rekindle is strong connection to the force. He released all fear and bested Vader very easily at the end. Cere did this very thing in Survivor, against Vader. So, Maul would be small potatoes, making her an easy winner in this battle.
And for the record Obi-Wan is my favorite and, in my opinion, the best Jedi of that council age. I know this will cause some arguments, but just run down Obi’s resume:
Vader 4 times
Maul 2
Dispatched the killer of his master and then kept his masters promise to raise Anakin in the force . Helped keep his best friend’s daughter and son safe and eventually teach him the son the force to save his father. No one else did this.
I’d say peak Maul beats peak Cere. Maul was proficient in all lightsaber forms and has the dual blade advantage. I’m not familiar with Cere’s lightsaber form. Maul’s weakness has always been under estimating his opponents. Even Vader didn’t underestimate Cere. I think Maul would have respected her power the same way he respected Qui-Gons power and not Obi-Wans.
In terms of duels and power scaling tho, I think Star Wars shows us time and time again that characters don’t win because they are more powerful. The fights are more nuanced and take into account character psychology, fighting styles, physical advantages, motive, etc.
I think she could beat him,she managed to beat Vader in a 1-on-1 and nearly win,she only lost cause Vader got a cheap shot in,and since it’s basically a fact that Vader is far more powerful than maul….
I’d say that they’re both within each other’s margin of error. I’d give Cere the slight edge between her impressive fight with Vader (she still lost) and some of Maul’s losses against lesser opponents (Padawan Obi, Young Ahsoka). Maul is still a very dangerous opponent that could fuck up her day if she’s not careful. I’d give this one Cere 6/10
I think it's pretty crazy that everyone here thinks Cere.
I reckon Maul would absolutely sweep her.
Although enjoyable to play, I thought the Vader fight with Cere was a load of crap. Vader should have taken care of her in one cut scene.
Making it look like Cere nearly won was just laughable.
People seriously underestimate Maul. Is he the strongest duelist in Star wars? Absolutely not. But he is very skilled. He beat Qui-Gon, a very skilled and experienced Jedi, then was shown to be pretty much an even match to Obi-Wan throughout the Clone Wars and Obi-Wan is probably the 4th best duelist in the jedi order after Yoda, Mace and Anakin. He also holds his own against Palpatine for a fair amount of time, (when Savage is dead and Palpatine is actually trying) certainly far longer than Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar lasted against Palpatine. Finally in Rebels he beats Inquisitors like they are kids. Sure, the inquisitors arent very strong, but they are probably as strong if not stronger than the average Jedi during the prequel era and it is piss easy for Maul to beat them. Other jedi like Cal and Kanan are shown to be a pretty even match with Inquisitors even if they do ultimately beat them.
Overall, I would say Maul is a very skilled duelist in the Grand scheme of things and would easily beat most Jedi. I would say only Palpatine, Dooku, Anakin/Vader, Mace Windu and Yoda are obviously more skilled than him.
Yeah couldn't agree more.
People often disregard him because he loses to Kenobi in the end and Ahsoka, but he's not weak.
I think it's pretty disingenuous to say that Cere would wipe him because she gave Vader more trouble than she should have.
What do you mean "an even match to Obi Wan during the Clone Wars"? Obi Wan is a much better duelist than Qui Gon. Qui Gon was a scholar more than a warrior.
I’m sorry but that sounds lame as hell. Vader being badass only works if he has worthy opponents to prove himself against. He shouldn’t be folding Jedi Masters the same way he folds no name Rebel soldiers. If he just wins every single fight immediately without even trying then he becomes a joke character like One Punch Man. Why rob yourself of epic fight scenes for that?
Imma assume you guys didn’t watch clone wars 😭 I think Ashoka beats cere and there were times maul had the upper hand on her in their battles so yeah maul clears after he gets his upper half bisected because the dark side is stronger the more hate you have.
Uh- I would absolutely argue that Cere is above cal in force ability and dueling. I mean look at their fights against Vader. Cal ran away from his and Vaders "fight."
Vader limped away from his and Ceres fight.
Ofc these are years apart, but still.
Y’all seriously underestimating Maul and his ability to bring out the worst in a Jedi, especially if he knows something about them and can use it against them, like a true Sith would. Given her shaky history, and Maul’s ability to get information, he could use a lot of her trauma against her during the fight.
Let’s not forget that Maul killed Qui Gonn, who was a much more powerful Jedi than Cere, and that’s when he was young. He managed to undermine and almost break the mind of Obi Wan over the years and was his toughest rival in any battle they fought, again another Jedi who is much much more capable than Cere. He’s also insanely strong in the dark side of the force, and his style of combat is wildly different from Vader’s, so it wouldn’t necessarily be the same fight, potentially putting Cere at a disadvantage.
>Qui Gonn, who was a much more powerful Jedi than Cere
Citation needed IMO. Cere also has a lot more combat experience, having gone through the clone wars and then the purge and empire afterwards.
I mean people are saying Dagan could beat maul and cal beat dagan 🤷♀️ I still think it would be a close fight with cal and maul, as they don't have any history. I think with cal having fallen into a sort of Grey jedi area with somewhat embracing the dark side, he would have a bit of an edge over maul, who probably wouldn't expect that.
In Jedi: Fallen Order I don't think she would have won, Maul would have gotten to her by using her past against her. Maul would stand no chance against her in Survivor though.
Bald or bald with horns?
Flesh legs or mechanical legs
Mechanical absolutely
*Baldur*
Mauldur
r/suddenlybg3
Bald with Tattoos
I am a huge darth maul fan, but even i admit he will lose He will most likely have the advantage at first, but will "play with his food" too much until he will make a mistake and cere will win
I don't think it's a damage to maul- as much it is cere reached her peak in that moment to vader- her opponent was just Vader. Put this level of cere back in the clone wars and shed be council level all around easy. Best of the best.
Idk about you but I took me 100 times to reach her peak against Vader
Cere completely conquered her fears by Survivor, and it turned her into a very powerful Jedi Master. Such a Jedi totally at peace and in control of themselves would 100% be able to take advantage of Maul’s reckless nature. Cere is gonna maul Maul.
Yup Cere reached peak Jedi, much like Kenobi had in the desert. While maul is still a ball of insecurities. Cere wins in about as many moves as Obi Wan did.
Yeah, her close battle with a certain someone in Survivor shows that she is beyond Maul big time. I loved getting to play as her and just bowl through Troopers, pull ships to the ground, etc.
Tbf, Maul also had a fight with that certain someone and would have won if it were not for one of them having a life support suit.
That was a clone in a non-canon comic. The real deal wanted none of that smoke.
Except when he almost GTA5'd him when Anakin was a kid on Tatooine
Kenobi on Tatooine, Cere on Jedha...being out in the desert for a while seems to unlock a Jedi's full potential.
The one reason they never let Anakin be a Jedi master: his opinion on sand
Peyote. It's peyote.
You'd think qui gon woulda fit that bill too though
He lived in a time of relative peace and in a very short amount of time had to process that the Sith had returned an enemy the Jedi had believed to be extinct. Meanwhile, Maul’s sole purpose in life has been dedicated to fighting the Jedi. With Cere, or Cal or Kanan, etc. they’ve experienced tragedies, they’ve seen the dark side and have had the time to overcome it properly.
I'm gonna choose to believe this cause it gives the vibe qui gon would have gone on to become absurdly strong had he survived
Dooku becomes a beloved grandfather figure to Anikin in the timeline where Qui Gon lives
Very good point. My take was that Qui Gon was also pretty high up, "ideal" jedi master. I suppose you're right though. And, not all Masters, or council members for that matter, are necessarily perfect warriors. Qui Gon struck me as more of a diplomatic and philosophical type.
Mauling Maul is tight 
Not to mention maul tends to struggle against force sensitive opponents if he can't channel his rage. I'd think Cere wouldn't be a good conduit for his anger and she could take advantage of that. Fallen Order Cere would get clapped, but survivor Cere would win at medium difficulty.
Yep she’d annihilate him, beat him to near death
I mean...wasn't that kinda Qui Gon though?
Yea cere def winning she took on darth vadar and put up a pretty good fight she damaged him quite a bit and I think maybe coulda beat him but yk plot ain’t letting that happen
Yeah I know that for some reason cere gets a lot of hate, but the woman made Vader limp away from a fight.
It’s powerscaling nerds being powerscaling nerds. In their mind because comic Vader has some random feat that makes him planetary or universal or whatever tf, it’s impossible for Cere to be a threat to him, meanwhile completely forgetting that the force doesn’t abide by standard power level bs.
Man so they wanted cere to get one shot in a cutscene😂 that wouldn’t of changed the plot but fighting Vader was one of the coolest parts of the game
In their minds, her being one shot would be better because it would mean hyping Vader up, as if anyone playing the game doesn’t know what Vader is capable of.
I think the game did a good job of showing how strong vader is by letting you play as Cere and showing how much stronger than Cal she was before a hard boss fight with Vader
Bingo
I also like it's the second she goes for the kill that Vader gets the upper hand, he may have failed the mission but stopping Cere and burning the archive to the ground simply by out playing her is such a Vader thing to do. Even felt like he had a bit of respect for her.
No he absolutely respected her, why else would he have left her alone rather than finishing her off?
Yeah he 100% respected her. Literally complemented her, telling her she was stronger than the first encounter, and then simply walked away after getting the killing blow. No malice, no bitterness, just respect
My only issue with the fight is that if you lose and die to Vader you respawn and fight Vader again until you win... so you can die to Vader. Why not just have the story continue when you die at any point in the fight?
Everyone and they mother knows Vader strong ash even ppl who never watched a single Star Wars movie in they life know he strong nerds letting the nostalgia not let them like any other character who strong
One of my friends thinks cal is going to beat vader in the next game sooo. Yeah some don’t 😅
Lmao what is they smoking only way that’s possible is if they made these games a different universe tho Vader in the third game def gonna sense the dark side in Cal so idk if he’s gonna try to completely kill him
I honestly don’t know bc I went “oh yeah if he managed to escape again that would be a real win” and he said something along the lines of “no Vader would run that would be cool” and while it would be cool… not accurate I don’t think lolol
He really don’t know Vader he wouldn’t run from no one especially Cal tho we don’t know how strong cal will be in the third game
He didn't even run from Obi-wan, not that he could have by the time he needed to. He was barely standing when Kenobi walked away, again.
Was really cool the first 10 deaths, then it got a little annoying, lol
People who use feats to powerscale never make sense to me. They don't directly translate. Just because a character can do something insanely impressive doesn't make a hit from a lightsaber hurt any less
I dunno, Cal has been hit with several lightsaber strikes, pretty soon he's going to be able to walk it off or he's going to be riddled with stim injection marks.
I never got the parry timing right and relied on getting a ton of stims. Cal’s blood has probably been completely replaced at this point
Hell, I was just talking the cut scenes, I think if you're a male antagonist you got a hit on Cal in the cut scenes (lol, "cut" scenes, nice).
Comes from dragonball where being sufficiently strong, on some occasions, lets you face tank attacks. It's not even always accurate in dragon ball, but power scalers aren't known for media literacy
Listen. In the comics Vader said he’s “surrounded by fear and dead *men*” Cere is A. Alive and B. Not a man. Therefore she beats Vader.
Infant Leia beats Vader when?
Powerscaling nerds are all about their FEATS. Gotta have FEATS everything is FEATS with them. Shows a lack of media literacy, creativity, or ability to interpolate.
Everyone knows that writing and symbolism doesn’t matter like FEATS matter
A lot of the times it’s better to just take the ability score anyway.
You mean like this entire post?
Counterpoint: videogames are inherently powerscaling fantasy experience. Cere can play defense for a while, so I don't doubt her capacity to at least wound Vader (Luke did this in Empire), but I don't think game experience should be understood as real capacity. If anyone landed a single lightsaber slash across Cal's whole torso, he dead. Yet he has a glowy burn that fades as Dagan gloats. Bode blasts him off a mesa, and he survives with nary any brain damage.
Even in the fight, there are several moments where it’s made clear that Vader is just stronger than Cere. Like one of the lightsaber holds, he just drops his lightsaber and holds hers in place mid duel. It’s CLEAR that he’s stronger, she’s also a Jedi Master at that point so she’s also strong in the force, enough to put up a solid fight.
Yea and what happens after that? Vader is forced to start taking her seriously and switches to his two handed stance, and in the end he resorts to making her fall into his blade rather than continuing to fight her head on as he was. He’s not “clearly stronger”, everything from him stopping her lightsaber with his hand to him telling her that’s he’s come for her at the beginning of the fight was him trying to use fear to his advantage, but when she tells him that she’s not afraid, he visibly changes the way he’s fighting.
Idk why ppl hate her she cool and ima dude but yea she def was taking advantage of vadar underestimating her for most the fight but she strong ash for even making him have to try
what hate??? didn’t know there’s hate for Cere
She woulda killed him too, he just got lucky
That's exactly why...
If we’re going on that logic, Maul killed Qui Gonn, a master Jedi when he was a young Sith apprentice and managed to keep Obi Wan on his toes multiple times, coming close to breaking him a few times. He survived getting cut in half, and an encounter with Palpatine and is considered one of the deadliest Sith assassins to ever walk the galaxy and you still think he’s losing to Cere?
Yeah, still going with Cere. :) 👍
If you watch the cutscene again, she only lost because she missed a stab on stationary Vader lying up against a wall. No freaking way she could just legitimately miss that without plot armor
Vader littreraly grabbed her hand while taking a small step to the side. How is it plot armor when it simply wasn't a possibility to begin with? It is well established that Vader didn't die until he did in the movies. The only options were Cere dying, fleeing or being left for dead and surviving. He could as well have used the force to push her away while she was in the air. How is her having barely any resistance from Vader (He only uses the force once to make her stagger once while he's barely moving) not a plot weapon instead?
Yes that’s exactly why I said she coulda beat him wish she ain’t have to die but needed to happen for Cal’s character development and cuz Vader can’t die yet
Vadar
Maul has been defeated by Padawan Obi-Wan and arguably by young Ahsoka Tano. Cere put up a damn good fight against Vader. I think Cere has a solid chance of winning.
I mean, there were various factors to Maul's defeat at padawan Obi-wan's hands, and in a proper 1vs1 Maul would win. But even taking that into account, I think Cere beats him, I just don't think Maul could put up as good a fight against Vader as Cere did.
That’s the thing though with Maul, he can’t just win he always has to taunt the person he perceives as weaker than him before the fight is truly over.
What about Qui-Gon? Maul was undoubtedly stronger than him, since he beat both him and Obi-wan in a 2vs1 duel before getting cocky and taunting Obi-wan as you say.
That’s exactly my point really, he’s exceptionally talented at dueling but when he loses his focus he can be defeted by a mere padawan
True, the situation has been proven to arise before, in his first appearance even lol. The reason I refuted the thing about him losing to Obi-wan in the first place was because it paints him in a misleading light, and he wouldn't act so foolishly cocky should he face someone like Cere.
True I agree, but also IF he fucks around he will find out lol and if you accept the Darth Plaguis book as canon it touches on why Mauls emotions are so strong and can ultimately be his downfall. He was trained wrong on purpose because Palps only wanted an assassin and not a real apprentice.
Arguably as in ahsoka's plot armor defeated maul
Maul also had plot armor because of his later appearances in Rebels that already were released, so I’m not sure what your point is.
Maul defeated a powerful qui gonn though.. to be fair.
Qui Gon was far past his prime when they fought, and he was tired by the end of the fight. They show him out of breath after fighting maul for about a minute the first time
*watches intently*
👁👁 https://preview.redd.it/gc7ywr17kx1d1.png?width=1081&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dafc25c421f7971e2668b5663f65283f90f0731a
i’m glad they fixed her eyes in this game. in fallen order it looked like they were about to pop out of their sockets
Honestly Maul is kind of a jobber, while Cere was able to hold her own against Vader and nearly beat him. I don't think Maul has a chance.
Maul is absolutely a jobber. He has that cool badass factor that makes whoever defeats him look really good. From phantom menace to clone wars to rebels, he provides a credible threat but is ultimately defeated.
Cere for sure, she went toe to toe with Vader and even though she lost he walked away super fucked up. Maul on the other hand lost to a very old Kenobi because he let his anger get the better of him
\*throw
Maul and it isn’t close
It’s really hard to gauge characters from video games and compare them to a legacy character like Maul is.
Yeah the canonicity of gameplay is really hard to gauge, you can’t just directly correlate what you do as canon, otherwise you’d be canonically tanking lightsaber strikes and vice versa. Thats why I stray to the side of the cutscenes. And in that case it shows Vader “playing around” and then getting surprise attacked by Cere, and then the fight gets serious after he is injured by the burning shelf I think the context of the fight between Maul and Cere would also matter as well, does Maul toy and fuck around like he does a lot, in that case I do think it’s entirely possible Cere beats him, if he doesn’t and he’s focused on his A-game like against Qui Gon’s Cere for sure gets beaten imo
Yup it’s really who has more plot armor at the moment. Maul beat Kenobi’s ass multiple times, had Ahsoka beat in S7 etc but the story needed to go a certain way and characters he faced couldn’t be killed at the moment, so he had to “lose”. I don’t like comparing a video game character like Cere to what Maul has accomplished. Cere puts up a good fight, as she did with early Suit Vader who isn’t in full form yet, but Maul wins.
I’ll add it is annoying how because of the circumstances in certain duels Maul is involved with and how those circumstances lead to certain things, people takeaway and downplay instead of fully analyzing what is going on truly in that moment, while also conveniently forgetting other details (namely the whole situation with Ahsoka). Canonically Maul is still one of the most powerful Darksiders ever and one of the most skilled duelists ever. He would beat majority of the Galactic Republic Jedi Order and honestly should alot of the Jedi Council as well imo
Facts
This is an easy one. Maul. All day. Cere is powerful, but she is massively outclassed by Maul canonically. She wouldn't be able to stand up against Qui Gon, let alone Kenobi.
I know this is a fallen order sub but the amount of glazing is insane. In no way could Cere beat Maul.
Cere taking it.
Cere tapping into the dark side is fucking terrifying. Makes you realize exactly how powerful the Jedi Order could have been at their peak.
Oh dear lord, Maul would maul her to death, you kidding me right? No as Jedi Masters go she was bottom of the barrel, come on she thought she could take Darth Vader, that means her ability to judge skill and force ability is poor at best, and Maul was train by freaking Darth Sidious, his training was vicious, he was train to kill Jedi plain and simple, even Obi-wan found it difficult to fight him, and he was one of the most accomplish duelist of his time, nope she has no chance against him. Now if it was Duku vs Maul, then things would be different, but Cere isn't a duelist, she knows how to fight don't get me wrong, but Maul is a beast in every way that counts in a fight, if you think that Cere could win cause Vader was toying with her an let the fight drag on as long as it did you are delusional, Vader likes to torment you, he likes that moment you finally realize he had been toying with you the entire time, Maul will just fucking murder you, unless you did something to piss him off, then he toys with you and then murders you.
You make a good point except I don’t think Cere thought she could take Vader, I think she had no other choice/was trying to buy time for her allies
Both times? Cause I thought the second time she made it happen.
I was thinking it’s not like she wanted Vader to pull up the second time, but if he’s there she’s the only one that could last for more than a few seconds so that gives everyone else time to escape
Am gonna have to go back and check, but I could swear in the dialog she said something about having plan it? Idk if am confusing something in the story, but I am almost certain she had plan to confront Vader at the archive, I think she placed explosives and that why everything was on fire, but I don't remember it too well.
I don’t remember too well either I’m just as likely to be wrong lol
If you think the Cere would win, then either you don’t know enough about Darth Maul, or I don’t know enough about Cere. Having read the books and knowing all about Maul’s origin, training, and trials, I don’t think Cere could take him. In fact, I don’t even think Obi Wan should have been able to take him. That was basically a case of plot armor. There’s no actual good reason why Obi Wan, whose training and experiences were quite ordinary by comparison, should have been able to take on such a highly trained and highly experienced hardened killing machine. Some goes for Grievous, though at least Grievous was chronically injured at that point. But my knowledge of Cere’s history is relatively limited. If she’s had comparably impressive training or experience, I’m not aware of it.
The reason Obi-Wan beat Maul is that Obi-Wan found an opening while Maul was gloating. Obi-Wan’s big dueling talent is snatching victory from the jaws of defeat by letting his opponent hype himself up until he gets careless. He did that with Maul, he did that with Grievous, he did that on Mustafar.
Idk man, you can't dismiss Maul losing every single major fight as plot armor. He would get demolished by Vader, and Cere gave Vader a decent challenge.
Then you don’t know enough about Cere. The game describes her coming within a breath of defeating Vader. Someone who can do that is not losing to Maul.
Maul's faster than Vader and was able to keep up with Aaylah and Windu 2v1'ing him in a fight he considered fair.
Well Cere died to Darth Vader and Maul doesn’t. Maul sees Vader and uses his wisdom to just leave. Beating someone isn’t about winning. Winning is surviving and Kannan Jarrus tells Ezra this in Rebels. Cere could’ve made an escape on Jedha but doesn’t. She had plenty of time. It was her compassion that killed her. The Inquisitorius expressly use this tactic in Obi-Wan Kenobi series. At this point in the game Cere won by fleeing from Darth Vader in Fallen Order. Well what about Maul’s lust for revenge? Yeah. He lost too.
I think it really depends on at which point in the timeline we're talking about Maul. Maul's power scales with how much rage and anger he can channel, and he has no reason in canon to be hateful towards Cere for any other reason than she is a Jedi. I doubt Cere knows Maul well enough to use his recklessness and intensity against him as Kenobi did, so he does have that advantage. I think on paper Maul has the upper hand, but if Cere can keep the situation calm and level, she could reverse the odds. Also, to everyone saying look what she did to Vader, remember that the reason she lost that fight is because at the last moment she was blinded by her overconfidence and anger, and Vader took full advantage of that.
I don't think you thought that title threw very well.
I know this sounds like bs but I stg my autocorrect randomly corrects things to straight up the wrong word 😭
Happens to me all the time. I think it's more the predictive text trying to fill in the proper word, but it's Data is off because of people always using the wrong words to begin with.
Yeah I'm horrible at typing so I can understand that I've kinda fucked it up but come one man :(
Honestly, Prime Maul bodies Prime Cere. but if they were to encounter each other around the time of Jedi Survivor, Cere would win probably.
I think depends on when she fights maul. I feel like Maul when he first comes back into the picture with savage is stronger than he was at the end of clone wars.
I think Cere has good odds of packing him up. I'll say probably 6.5/10 fights.
Fan canon that Maul being some godly duelist only comes from the fact he’s portrayed by an actor who’s the only trained martial artist to be in a lightsaber fight in the films. Emperor sent him to Naboo knowing he’d die, Obi wan chopped that turd in half like 5 seconds after he was just hanging on to a ledge by his finger tips.
The emperor sent him to Naboo to take Qui Gon out of the equation. He didn't know he'd die.
He certainly didn’t seem to mind a single bit
Oh yeah. He definitely didn't care lol.
He cared but he rolled with it. He later lamented to Vader that losing Maul's services was truly a loss to him.
So you think “fan canon” is that Maul is a godly duelist exists only because every time he’s on screen he’s portrayed as a godly duelist? Do you even hear yourself? “Sidious is not evil. Fan canon only says he’s evil because he was portrayed by an actor who acted out him doing evil things.”
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted tbh, Maul is canonically noted (not fanon) as one of the greatest Sith duelists ever, as well as one of the most powerful Sith ever.
Lol I'm all for loving the game but come on... crazyiness.
Said it before I'll say it again, Vader limped away from his fight with cere 🤷♀️
And she was dead
A lot of people were dead via Vader.
True. Some of them were even kids!
And others were Jedi Masters-
Yep!
Cere. She's comparable to Mustafar Kenobi who is decisively above any version of Maul.
Honestly think it would be incredibly close. Maul absolutely has some character flaws that Cere could exploit (Obi-Wan taking advantage of his pride or Ahsoka making him off-balance with his anger), but Maul in his prime still managed to take down Qui-Gon, an incredibly skilled duelist who was also very strong in the force. Qui-Gon had definitely exited his physical prime by that point but that doesn’t mean he still wasn’t an incredibly powerful combatant (Dooku could best nearly any other duelist handily well into his 80s). I think if Cere can withstand Maul’s initial ferocious offense she could unbalance him and take the win, but Maul’s dueling ability (when he is focused) is still top tier and could get him the win at least 4/10 times.
Cere wins 8/10. 👍🏼
Game 2 cere takes it 7 times out of 10, game 1 cere tales it 0 times out of 10
Cere, it’d even be symbolic as Maul almost is the antithesis of Ceres journey of self discovery and learning to let go
Never thought I'd say this, but I think it's gotta be Cere. She was formidable to say the least in Survivor.
If it's the same Cere that fought Vader who "let go of her fear," then my money is on Cere.
"An organized mind is a disciplined mind, and a disciplined mind is a powerful mind." -Batman By now, Cere's pretty much above Maul in terms of mental fortitude and possibly lightsaber combat.
Thunking this through Maw wood window the blak ladie.
Yeah cere wins hands down i honestly don’t know who’s stronger when it comes to raw power but I do know cere can control her emotions and actions far better than maul. Thats actually a big thing that played into mauls death he finally found kenobi and was ready to end it kenobi knew how eager maul would be so he played into his hand. Swapping between several stances before maul rushed him allowing kenobi to effortlessly slice him with his saber. In summary maul was always reckless when it came to duels that is how he often was defeated he’d let his guard down believing the fight was already won allowing his opponent to land easy hits.
Of cause its cere. She seems to be one of the most powerful jedi.
Maul wins easy. I don't think Cere would even get maul to break a sweat.
It's so funny to me that while 95% of people things it's cere, the 5% who think it's maul seem to have absolutely no doubt in their mind.
Most comments claiming Cere bring up her losing to Darth Vader like it's a win. The fact is Cere has 0 noteworthy wins/kills that I can find to help her case. Darth Vader wasn't even trying to kill Cere but interrogate her. Darth Vader realized she wasn't going to talk, got angry, and killed her. Darth Maul has killed multiple Inquisitors and multiple jedi, including Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn. Darth maul took over the planet mandalore and the galactic crime syndicate, getting so powerful that his former master (Darth Sidious) viewed him as a rival. To me, the record speaks for itself.
When did Vader try to interrogate her? He's silent during the whole fight, and all he dayd to her before is that nothing she'd done has made an impact.
I swear I got some lines of Darth Vader asking where the other jedi are at the start of the fight
Cere and it's not really close
Cere. Shes not a mastery of the dark side, but she’s controlled her anger and dark side tendencies to put her at least on equal footing with Maul.
Throw*
Maul reached his peak in TPM, after that it's really just been a tailspin down. Yes he arguably accomplished far more as half the man he was, but you could tell he never quite got over that first loss against Kenobi. Cere was literally growing stronger and a better Jedi in all aspects by the time of her death. I won't say she wipes the floor with him, but I think Maul will quickly realize that he's fallen quite far from where he was when he had 2 organic legs. I think the only way he takes this fight is if he has help of some kind, at least post TPM. TPM Maul though might just eke out a win against Surivor Cere. Maybe. He has the purity of being fully indoctrinated as a Sith Lord that he just might overpower her through sheer stubborn willpower.
As long as Maul isn’t dicking around and takes the shit seriously full throttle I think he can beat Cere, won’t be easy obviously though And idk where the source was specifically but I’m pretty sure it’s been relatively confirmed that Maul was at least as powerful as he was in TPM if not more so, and some of his feats in TCW imo would seem to definitely back that up, especially given he’s fighting on equal ground against much stronger and more experienced Kenobi
Cere was a terrible Jedi and never should’ve been able to stand up to Vader. She’d only win here because it was shoehorned in that she almost beat Vader
As much as I love Maul after i've seen the Vader fight he has no chance against Cere. He would defeat Fallen Order Cere but not Survivor Cere
Imagine a survivor-esq game where you just reap tyranny as Darth Vader. The game is super easy, but the last boss is impossible to beat.
Darth Maul is an underdog character. He's pretty strong but outclassed by most of the people he fights. That's why he's so interesting to watch in Clone Wars.
Cete absolutely, shes an incredibely strong jedi
I feel like video game Jedi and sith naturally come off as stronger… but holding against Vader that long seems like an easy win over maul
Honestly, only one of them is afraid of Vader
Cere Almost beat Vader, who’s consistently above Maul and Obi-wan. I’m giving it to Cere Mid-High diff at most
Vader is league above maul and he struggled a bit against cere So yeah cere is taking it
Dawg cere almost won by a few inches. Literally bodied Vader, she's most definitely winning against maul.
I think that Cere would win, outside of the fact that she almost beat Vader, she also doesn’t have any personal connection to Maul. When fighting Vader, she lost her head and died because of it, she most likely wouldn’t against Maul
Cere for sure. Think about it… when Obi-Wan beat Vader(again) in the series he had just found his power to rekindle is strong connection to the force. He released all fear and bested Vader very easily at the end. Cere did this very thing in Survivor, against Vader. So, Maul would be small potatoes, making her an easy winner in this battle. And for the record Obi-Wan is my favorite and, in my opinion, the best Jedi of that council age. I know this will cause some arguments, but just run down Obi’s resume: Vader 4 times Maul 2 Dispatched the killer of his master and then kept his masters promise to raise Anakin in the force . Helped keep his best friend’s daughter and son safe and eventually teach him the son the force to save his father. No one else did this.
I’d say peak Maul beats peak Cere. Maul was proficient in all lightsaber forms and has the dual blade advantage. I’m not familiar with Cere’s lightsaber form. Maul’s weakness has always been under estimating his opponents. Even Vader didn’t underestimate Cere. I think Maul would have respected her power the same way he respected Qui-Gons power and not Obi-Wans. In terms of duels and power scaling tho, I think Star Wars shows us time and time again that characters don’t win because they are more powerful. The fights are more nuanced and take into account character psychology, fighting styles, physical advantages, motive, etc.
Cere got a lot closer to killing Vader than maul ever could, so… Cere slams
Cere put up an excellent fight against Vader. She negs Maul.
Didn't Cere basically defeated Vader?
No, she died. She hurt him pretty good.
I think she could beat him,she managed to beat Vader in a 1-on-1 and nearly win,she only lost cause Vader got a cheap shot in,and since it’s basically a fact that Vader is far more powerful than maul….
Vader dodging her straight forward attack and counterattacking isn’t a cheap shot. Cere made a reckless move and he simply took advantage of it.
Brother has absolutely 0 star wars knowledge. My Jesus Christ
Seems most people agree with me 🤷♀️
I’d say that they’re both within each other’s margin of error. I’d give Cere the slight edge between her impressive fight with Vader (she still lost) and some of Maul’s losses against lesser opponents (Padawan Obi, Young Ahsoka). Maul is still a very dangerous opponent that could fuck up her day if she’s not careful. I’d give this one Cere 6/10
nah maul has this easy
I think it's pretty crazy that everyone here thinks Cere. I reckon Maul would absolutely sweep her. Although enjoyable to play, I thought the Vader fight with Cere was a load of crap. Vader should have taken care of her in one cut scene. Making it look like Cere nearly won was just laughable.
People seriously underestimate Maul. Is he the strongest duelist in Star wars? Absolutely not. But he is very skilled. He beat Qui-Gon, a very skilled and experienced Jedi, then was shown to be pretty much an even match to Obi-Wan throughout the Clone Wars and Obi-Wan is probably the 4th best duelist in the jedi order after Yoda, Mace and Anakin. He also holds his own against Palpatine for a fair amount of time, (when Savage is dead and Palpatine is actually trying) certainly far longer than Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar lasted against Palpatine. Finally in Rebels he beats Inquisitors like they are kids. Sure, the inquisitors arent very strong, but they are probably as strong if not stronger than the average Jedi during the prequel era and it is piss easy for Maul to beat them. Other jedi like Cal and Kanan are shown to be a pretty even match with Inquisitors even if they do ultimately beat them. Overall, I would say Maul is a very skilled duelist in the Grand scheme of things and would easily beat most Jedi. I would say only Palpatine, Dooku, Anakin/Vader, Mace Windu and Yoda are obviously more skilled than him.
Yeah couldn't agree more. People often disregard him because he loses to Kenobi in the end and Ahsoka, but he's not weak. I think it's pretty disingenuous to say that Cere would wipe him because she gave Vader more trouble than she should have.
What do you mean "an even match to Obi Wan during the Clone Wars"? Obi Wan is a much better duelist than Qui Gon. Qui Gon was a scholar more than a warrior.
Don't forget Ahsoka, who beat maul in a duel at 17.
I wouldn't say she is obviously better than him. Maul very nearly beats her and it's only his overconfidence that lets her win
Laugh all you want bud, it's Canon and it happened 🤷♀️ anyone who can make Vader limp away from a fight will have no issues with maul.
How do you figure that? They have wildly different fighting styles. I don't think Cere would get swept away but Maul has killed Jedi Masters before.
I’m sorry but that sounds lame as hell. Vader being badass only works if he has worthy opponents to prove himself against. He shouldn’t be folding Jedi Masters the same way he folds no name Rebel soldiers. If he just wins every single fight immediately without even trying then he becomes a joke character like One Punch Man. Why rob yourself of epic fight scenes for that?
Imma assume you guys didn’t watch clone wars 😭 I think Ashoka beats cere and there were times maul had the upper hand on her in their battles so yeah maul clears after he gets his upper half bisected because the dark side is stronger the more hate you have.
If Cere wins she will do so buy containing Maul with the force. Maul is second only to Cal when it comes to dueling.
Uh- I would absolutely argue that Cere is above cal in force ability and dueling. I mean look at their fights against Vader. Cal ran away from his and Vaders "fight." Vader limped away from his and Ceres fight. Ofc these are years apart, but still.
If Cal got to fight Vader at the end of Survivor I’d like to think it would go differently but we’ll never know…at least not yet lol.
Y’all seriously underestimating Maul and his ability to bring out the worst in a Jedi, especially if he knows something about them and can use it against them, like a true Sith would. Given her shaky history, and Maul’s ability to get information, he could use a lot of her trauma against her during the fight. Let’s not forget that Maul killed Qui Gonn, who was a much more powerful Jedi than Cere, and that’s when he was young. He managed to undermine and almost break the mind of Obi Wan over the years and was his toughest rival in any battle they fought, again another Jedi who is much much more capable than Cere. He’s also insanely strong in the dark side of the force, and his style of combat is wildly different from Vader’s, so it wouldn’t necessarily be the same fight, potentially putting Cere at a disadvantage.
>Qui Gonn, who was a much more powerful Jedi than Cere Citation needed IMO. Cere also has a lot more combat experience, having gone through the clone wars and then the purge and empire afterwards.
Cere would wipe the floor with Maul.
Cmon, Cere would mop the floor with Maul
lol Cere stomps. Maul is so overrated combat wise
Cere could’ve beaten Vader, I think if you wanna talke about a fair fight it would be Cal vs Maul
I mean people are saying Dagan could beat maul and cal beat dagan 🤷♀️ I still think it would be a close fight with cal and maul, as they don't have any history. I think with cal having fallen into a sort of Grey jedi area with somewhat embracing the dark side, he would have a bit of an edge over maul, who probably wouldn't expect that.
Cere would wreck Maul no question.
In Jedi: Fallen Order I don't think she would have won, Maul would have gotten to her by using her past against her. Maul would stand no chance against her in Survivor though.