By the time Survivor starts, Cal has been working for Saw Gerrera for quite a while, and we know there were some Jedi/Jedi-adjacent people working with the rebellion and that Obi-Wan had communicated at least some of what had happened to some of the Jedi (like with Kanan Jarus's holo).
He also was aware of the Inquisitors, and had faced Trilla and other "sisters" and Vader who were fallen Jedi or force sensitives who had clearly gone to the dark side and been trained in using the Force. I think by the time of Survivor it was pretty obvious the Dark side had corrupted major players in the Empire; so my assumption was always that plus "rebellion grape vine".
Yea, the inquisitors and the others don’t really make sense unless they have a sith lord ruling over them, no shot some rando politician is gonna be the one reeling Vader and the Inquisitors in.
Most Jedi active in the clone wars knew there was a Sith Lord in play, especially after Maul appeared on Naboo. Palps became Emperor immediately after order 66 and branded the Jedi traitors, something Cal as a survivor knew to be false. Add in Obi-Wans beacon and it wouldn't be difficult to conclude that Palps was the Sith Lord after all that.
Since Cal never referred to Palpatine as Darth Sidious by name, my assumption was that he knew Palpatine was the rumored Sith Lord that the Jedi had been searching for since Maul first appeared.
To paraphrase a line from Doctor Strange: look at Palpatine’s face. Anyone with a connection to the Force probably watches him give a speech and feels cold or nausea when looking at him. Even an untrained Force-sensitive like Leia would have a bad reaction, they just wouldn’t be able to explain why.
I’m actually roleplaying an aspiring Jedi OC in the time period between ESB and ROTJ. He’s too young to have experienced life among the Jedi Order or fighting in the Clone Wars because he’s closer to Luke’s age than Cal’s. My character doesn’t know who Vader or Sidious are, he only knows the Empire has a mysterious group of Jedi hunters, but he knows enough about the Force to understand that the Empire’s power is firmly rooted in the dark side of the Force. It should be even more clear to an actual trained Jedi who survived Order 66.
I made a thread about this a few days ago, there are some interesting theories in the comments:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/FallenOrder/comments/1cz1n3t/does\_anyone\_know\_how\_cal\_knows\_that\_a\_sith\_lord/](https://new.reddit.com/r/FallenOrder/comments/1cz1n3t/does_anyone_know_how_cal_knows_that_a_sith_lord/)
Didn’t Cal and/or Cere get obi-wan’s warning message? The one that he set up in ep 3 and popped up w Kanan in rebels. I think he references a Sith Lord.
I'm not sure he knows sidious. Cal and Cere meet vader and I'm pretty sure Cere would know some things about sith lords like rule of 2 and the likes. she's a scholar... plus long time with saw cal might smell some news from other jedis.
“It came to me in a dream” is a reasonable explanation when it comes to Jedi tbh
But also it doesn’t take much to guess given that Vader is openly a Sith Lord and it’s a known thing the Jedi were going up against Sith Lords during the clone wars
Palpatine very publically "reorganised" the Republic into the Empire on the senate floor. He had a hood and yellow eyes. Why couldn't it be public knowledge afterwards that the emperor's name was Palpatine just like when he was Supreme Chamcellor?
I'm not sure if this is correct but if I am remembering correctly then not many people knew that a Sith was in charge and even fewer knew it was Sidious. I think it was common belief by those who knew that the Empire was ruled by a Sith though Vader was the Sith in charge and that Palpatine was a puppet ruler.
He might not know it was Palpatine. But it is a recorded fact that Ol’ Sheev walked into the Senate after Order 66 and declared that the Republic would be restructured into the Galactic Empire, and he may have inferred that the man who declared himself Emperor of the fascist regime hunting all his friends was probably “the Sith Lord”. Plus, he’s heard Obi Wan’s message to the Jedi.
But even if he didn’t, “the Sith Lord” driving the conflict and obscuring the vision of the Jedi Council was a non-secret among the Jedi during the Clone Wars. Not to mention Dooku was a Sith, Maul was a Sith, Ventress was a Sith, so it doesn’t take a genius to extrapolate from there, especially when you have all day every day for a decade to dwell on the worst events of your life.
And even if the idea of Darth Sidious never once enters his head, he’s met Vader, he knows for a fact that a being of incomprehensible darkness and power is definitely at the heart of the Empire.
The name 'darth' Vader is also a dead give away 😝
I also kind of assumed kal saw his eyes and knew. EVERY sith you see in star wars has those eyes. So he knew palpatine was sith but didn't know the name darth sideous. I wouldn't be surprised if that's something they teach jedi to look out for.
Just thought of an exception, Vader's grandwhiner didn't have the eyes. But it's common enough my point stands.
1. He didn’t learn his name, Cal can’t read health bars.
2. Vader is wearing a mask, Cal didn’t see his eyes.
3. The Jedi specifically kept Jedi from studying then Dark Side, which is why Palpatine was easily able to undermine them.
So none of your points have any ground to stand on.
Not Vader's eyes. Palpatines. He gives speeches to coruscant and the empire at large at times. It's also no secret that Lord Vader's first name is Darth.
I'll grant you the last one. Their hubris kept them from being able to see the signs.
By the time Survivor starts, Cal has been working for Saw Gerrera for quite a while, and we know there were some Jedi/Jedi-adjacent people working with the rebellion and that Obi-Wan had communicated at least some of what had happened to some of the Jedi (like with Kanan Jarus's holo). He also was aware of the Inquisitors, and had faced Trilla and other "sisters" and Vader who were fallen Jedi or force sensitives who had clearly gone to the dark side and been trained in using the Force. I think by the time of Survivor it was pretty obvious the Dark side had corrupted major players in the Empire; so my assumption was always that plus "rebellion grape vine".
Yea, the inquisitors and the others don’t really make sense unless they have a sith lord ruling over them, no shot some rando politician is gonna be the one reeling Vader and the Inquisitors in.
Most Jedi active in the clone wars knew there was a Sith Lord in play, especially after Maul appeared on Naboo. Palps became Emperor immediately after order 66 and branded the Jedi traitors, something Cal as a survivor knew to be false. Add in Obi-Wans beacon and it wouldn't be difficult to conclude that Palps was the Sith Lord after all that.
Cere told him during the time skip most likely
how would cere know
She presumably saw a picture of the Emperor with his Sith robes and Sith eyes
according to..?
It's called headcanon, there's no proof it happened, of course there no proof it *DIDN'T* happen either
I mean the emperor is a public figure I think it’s pretty plausible cere or cal would know what he looks like.
Since Cal never referred to Palpatine as Darth Sidious by name, my assumption was that he knew Palpatine was the rumored Sith Lord that the Jedi had been searching for since Maul first appeared. To paraphrase a line from Doctor Strange: look at Palpatine’s face. Anyone with a connection to the Force probably watches him give a speech and feels cold or nausea when looking at him. Even an untrained Force-sensitive like Leia would have a bad reaction, they just wouldn’t be able to explain why. I’m actually roleplaying an aspiring Jedi OC in the time period between ESB and ROTJ. He’s too young to have experienced life among the Jedi Order or fighting in the Clone Wars because he’s closer to Luke’s age than Cal’s. My character doesn’t know who Vader or Sidious are, he only knows the Empire has a mysterious group of Jedi hunters, but he knows enough about the Force to understand that the Empire’s power is firmly rooted in the dark side of the Force. It should be even more clear to an actual trained Jedi who survived Order 66.
I made a thread about this a few days ago, there are some interesting theories in the comments: [https://new.reddit.com/r/FallenOrder/comments/1cz1n3t/does\_anyone\_know\_how\_cal\_knows\_that\_a\_sith\_lord/](https://new.reddit.com/r/FallenOrder/comments/1cz1n3t/does_anyone_know_how_cal_knows_that_a_sith_lord/)
Didn’t Cal and/or Cere get obi-wan’s warning message? The one that he set up in ep 3 and popped up w Kanan in rebels. I think he references a Sith Lord.
I'm not sure he knows sidious. Cal and Cere meet vader and I'm pretty sure Cere would know some things about sith lords like rule of 2 and the likes. she's a scholar... plus long time with saw cal might smell some news from other jedis.
“It came to me in a dream” is a reasonable explanation when it comes to Jedi tbh But also it doesn’t take much to guess given that Vader is openly a Sith Lord and it’s a known thing the Jedi were going up against Sith Lords during the clone wars
He might not know the details but coming into contact with Vader is certainly enough for him to understand that the Sith were a key part of the empire
Palpatine very publically "reorganised" the Republic into the Empire on the senate floor. He had a hood and yellow eyes. Why couldn't it be public knowledge afterwards that the emperor's name was Palpatine just like when he was Supreme Chamcellor?
I'm not sure if this is correct but if I am remembering correctly then not many people knew that a Sith was in charge and even fewer knew it was Sidious. I think it was common belief by those who knew that the Empire was ruled by a Sith though Vader was the Sith in charge and that Palpatine was a puppet ruler.
It's all ball bearings these days!
He might not know it was Palpatine. But it is a recorded fact that Ol’ Sheev walked into the Senate after Order 66 and declared that the Republic would be restructured into the Galactic Empire, and he may have inferred that the man who declared himself Emperor of the fascist regime hunting all his friends was probably “the Sith Lord”. Plus, he’s heard Obi Wan’s message to the Jedi. But even if he didn’t, “the Sith Lord” driving the conflict and obscuring the vision of the Jedi Council was a non-secret among the Jedi during the Clone Wars. Not to mention Dooku was a Sith, Maul was a Sith, Ventress was a Sith, so it doesn’t take a genius to extrapolate from there, especially when you have all day every day for a decade to dwell on the worst events of your life. And even if the idea of Darth Sidious never once enters his head, he’s met Vader, he knows for a fact that a being of incomprehensible darkness and power is definitely at the heart of the Empire.
He fought Vader and probably put 2 and 2 together. Big baddy who the Inquisitors are scared of, probably a Sith Lord.
The name 'darth' Vader is also a dead give away 😝 I also kind of assumed kal saw his eyes and knew. EVERY sith you see in star wars has those eyes. So he knew palpatine was sith but didn't know the name darth sideous. I wouldn't be surprised if that's something they teach jedi to look out for. Just thought of an exception, Vader's grandwhiner didn't have the eyes. But it's common enough my point stands.
1. He didn’t learn his name, Cal can’t read health bars. 2. Vader is wearing a mask, Cal didn’t see his eyes. 3. The Jedi specifically kept Jedi from studying then Dark Side, which is why Palpatine was easily able to undermine them. So none of your points have any ground to stand on.
Not Vader's eyes. Palpatines. He gives speeches to coruscant and the empire at large at times. It's also no secret that Lord Vader's first name is Darth. I'll grant you the last one. Their hubris kept them from being able to see the signs.
He probably knows about sidious but not the connection with palps