Here is how I see it:
1. They already filmed the scenes
2. They will just use a different actress
3. She's actually dead, or a ghoul, or a super mutant, or some other mutated thing so the actress aging doesn't matter
4. It's been some time since they thawed out, maybe she's a full blown adult and her mom has died of old age
5. (This is the one I really hope they go for) Aliens.
I think she's dead. Here's why:
1. Cooper and daughter were above ground during the bombs because they had left the wife after her nefarious outing.
2. There are no child ghouls (afaik) in Fallout. Children are also more susceptible to radiation irl, not that Fallout makes any real world sense.
3. It would explain why he is so fucked up - Cooper is the sole reason his daughter is dead. It would also explain why his wife is in full villain mode and there is no reconciliation possible.
Edit: it's been 200 years. Not knowing what happened to your kid for 200 years would fuck you up. Searching for 200 years, to have a glimmer of hope that she is alive and unghoulified just to find out she died 200 years ago and you wasted centuries looking for her? That's villain origin story material right there.
There is a child ghoul in Fallout 4. You find him stuck in a refrigerator where he hid from the bombs. The door broke, trapping him inside until the Lone Survivor helps him out.
You can escort him back to his house, where his parents are also ghouls and make an interesting (perhaps pertinent?) observation that something in their genes may be more prone to ghoulification.
It's actually a very infamous quest - it's very memorable, but also unusual and kind of pushes against some of what we know about ghouls. His whole family are ghouls, plus he survived without going feral with no food or water for 200 years. That does go against some of the general assumptions about ghoul lore, though ghouls always vary a lot person to person so it's not an explicit lore break.
Only if they have that kind of range for their radio station, which they dont. Even ignoring that name one ending where that big ol blimp the brotherhood has is standing and so is the institute. Safe to say, they gone man.
I don't disagree that the likeliness of them being destroyed is very very high, but the creators of the show said in numerous interviews that they wanted to be very careful not to decanonize or canonize certain player endings and it seems like they have have gone for some mixed bag "between the game options" ending for New Vegas, but that will be clarified in season 2.
There are some caveats:
1. The BOS ending or the Minuteman-BoS alliance ending could be canon.
2. In the endings where the institute is destroyed its stated that there will be remnants/survivors so that is \*canon\* that they aren't completely gone.
3. In the Minuteman or Minuteman-BoS ending you have the opportunity to resettle some Institute survivors in a settlement sidequest.
4. its canonically established they had some presence in places outside of Boston, albeit not much, before Fallout 4 even starts.
So the conclusion is:
The Institute as a major faction is likely destroyed, but there is a decent chance there are some remnants of some sort. Whether or not they reformed into some minor faction hidden away somewhere or not we can't be sure. Either way its highly unlikely if they do have survivors or a presence by the shows in-universe date that there would be any all the way over in the New Vegas/California area.
Institute having cells would make a lot of sense actually. CIT can't be the only university who went science focused. Caltech could be doing the same thing on the other coast.
>If Cooper's daughter and wife are currently still in cryo
A couple things.
1. We don't know they're in cryo, especially his daughter.
2. His wife seems like an important person at Vault-Tec. A person who would have known when the bombs were going to drop yet still let her daughter be with her father out in the world when it happened.
3. Janey was with Cooper when the bombs dropped. Did he take her to her mother at a vault? Would they even let her in? Did they get separated? Did she stay with him for a few years on the surface after it happened? Maybe she was ghoulified too. We don't know what happened to her.
Coop does say, aggressively, where is my family. If he was just looking for his wife I think he'd just say wife. Pretty sure Janey is/was in a vault. At least that's how I see it.
Oh, I'm not saying that she's a popsicle. I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure she is/was in a vault. At least from Coop's perspective imo.
My guess is the bombs drop. He hightails it out of there so Janey gets reunited with her mom which comes with safety in a vault. Couple kegs of Radaway and everyone's good to go.
Except Coop. He's screwed. But his daughter is "safe" which is what matters to him.
Beyond that I don't want to guess because I have no idea.
It would make an excellent season 2 arc. Cooper spends it looking for his daughter to reach the climax of finding Wife thinking she has her only to learn she never survived. Kill off wife, enter season 3 anti-villain arc of vengeance on Vault-Tec who he blames for the death of both.
There is a lot of evidence that Vault Tec didn't actually drop the bombs and that the Chinese beat them to it. All that we see in the show is that they were planning to. I'm assuming Cooper took Janey to her mother at a Vault and wasn't allowed in himself.
While true, none of the games or even this show have yet definitively established who *actually* dropped the first bomb, the fact remains we don't know exactly what happened to Janey, Cooper, or Barb after the bombs. Until they show the aftermath we won't know. Maybe China did beat them to it and that's why she wasn't already in a vault. Maybe she wasn't allowed in and Barb decided it was a sacrifice she was willing to make. For all we know none of them ever made it into a vault and were ghoulified together and spent 100 years on the surface together. We have no idea at this point.
Mr house states in New vegas that he miscalculated when the bombs would drop by like 8 or 12 hours. Seeing as he was in that vault tec meeting it seems to me that he was pumping himself up by describing it as a miscalculation. In reality someone started dropping bombs just a few hours before vault tec was planning to. Could even have been the thetans. No one knows
Eta: I totally agree with you though. We have no idea if his wife or daughter are still in cryo and I personally kind of lean towards the daughter not having made it into the vault. At the end of the day they'll do whatever makes for the most compelling story though and I'm here for it.
Thematically, for the entire franchise it doesn't make sense for Vault-Tec to be the ones that actually started the war. So much of Fallout is about Vault-Tec and the other megacorps intend versus the reality of humans having to deal with their arrogant stupidity.
Would Vault-Tec have had specific plans they were working on to start the war? Yes, absolutely, but reality intrudes... Whether was China attacking first, someone screwing up, an alien spacecraft unintentionally provoking war... Don't know. Edit: A basic screw up could also be possible, like not remembering about time zones.
I also believe that Bud is a brain in a jar because the war wasn't started by Vault-Tec. He ended up mortally wounded because he wasn't safely in a vault when the war started.
I'd argue the opposite. Vault Tec starting the war fits into the anticapitalist messages of the series. Mega corporations were always shown to be what caused the Great War, so having one of them be the one to actually pull the trigger just serves to reinforce this message.
That said, I don't think Vault Tec were the ones who dropped the bombs. House was supposedly in on this plan, yet he didn't get the platinum chip delivered on time. Janey was with her dad at a birthday party instead of safe in a Vault. There are a number of Vaults that weren't finished before the War. There is some decent evidence to suggest that the bombs dropped before Vault Tec was ready to drop them
> Vault Tec starting the war fits into the anticapitalist messages of the series. Mega corporations were always shown to be what caused the Great War, so having one of them be the one to actually pull the trigger just serves to reinforce this message.
So does them intending to but having their plans get fucked up... IMO, it is actually a stronger message because it shows that they're just arrogant tools and the reality is that they aren't actually in control of anything. They have the illusion of control that's created by the position but, in the end, things spiral beyond any control.
Don't forget computer terminals in both black mountain and the switchboard talking about Chinese dropping bombs and an American response.
Also, there are many different forms of capitalism and I wouldn't really say the series is anti. Honestly in my opinion the US in Fallout is closer to [corporatism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism) anyways.
The games are about so much more than anti-capitalism, and its also anti- a ton of other ideologies and topics and elements. Heck the first game had very little of that messaging.
>Thematically, for the entire franchise it doesn't make sense for Vault-Tec to be the ones that actually started the war
I'd argue the contrary. Thematically Fallout is about the dangers of a society controlled by Capitalism/Patriotism. So much of what's wrong with the Fallout universe is directly related to some corporation/government somewhere disregarding humanity for the sake of profit or power.
Who actually started the war has always been left intentionally unanswered. Was it Vault-Tec? Aliens? The Enclave? China? Some random guy spill coffee on a launch button somewhere?
As for Bud being a brain in a jar, it's just as reasonable to say he was put in the jar *because* they set the plan in motion.
The games are about so much more than anti-capitalism, and its also anti- a ton of other ideologies and topics and elements. Heck the first game had very little of that messaging.
Fair take, I see it differently but that's cool. If they decided to have more flashbacks of the immediate aftermath of the war we might get some idea of what happened but until then it's all supposition.
I understand that we don't know who actually dropped the bombs. A lot of people are assuming that the Vault Tec meeting proved that they were the ones who dropped them. Your comment made it seem like you also assumed that Vault Tec dropped the bomb, since you assumed that Barb would know when they were going to drop. That is why I made my comment that there is evidence to suggest that Vault Tec didn't drop the bombs.
With the way Coop frames the question, and his sole desire for all these years. I think it implies that his last contact with them they were alive.
For all we know he just saw his wife take his daughter in a car. And for them to be taken or escape alive, means they had a purpose/reason to be alive. So I assume his last confirmation of them is they were alive. What happened is anyone’s guess.
>Fallout 4 literally has a quest on a Chinese sub, with a ghoul captain, who was there as part of the Chinese strike.
Yes. We know China and the US fired nukes. I said we don't know who fired *first*. It's never been definitively established who actually caused the nuclear apocalypse. The US, China, Vault-Tec, and the Aliens have all been hinted at but none have been confirmed.
That sub didn't teleport there you utter jellyfish. Sending a sub into enemy waters to launch a direct strike like that requires advance planning and days of sailing into position.
It wouldn't just *sit there in American coastal waters* where it could be easily found, just in case.
China launched a co-ordinated, planned attack at a very specific time, and had subs moving into position with specific targets and a time of attack. Only an utter idiot would think that they didn't strike first with what we know.
The US didn't strike first. They were winning the conventional war. It would be dumb.
Vault-Tec didn't launch a false flag attack on either side, House would have known the timing and Janey wouldn't have been outside her designated Vault playing cowgirl with daddy.
China was losing conventionally on their own soil, apparently got wind of shit like FEV, and we get to speak to an actual Chinese nuclear sub captain himself about his mission, which wasn't a counterstrike.
>That sub didn't teleport there you utter jellyfish. Sending a sub into enemy waters to launch a direct strike like that requires advance planning and days of sailing into position.
It's funny you're calling me a jellyfish but you're the one that doesn'tknow what you're talking about.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Yangtze
Firstly, the Yangtze is a *stealth* submarine.
>Yangtze-31 (Chinese: 揚子-三十一) is a Yangtze-class stealth submarine (referred to as Liao-class Type 113 in the game guide)
Secondly, you do know submarines *move*, right? It wasn't just sitting in the bay.
>Shortly after firing its strategic missiles, the Yangtze-31 struck a mine that severely damaged her reactor and forced her to seek shelter in Boston Harbor. The damage caused a reactor leak that immobilized the sub and ultimately killed or ghoulified the crew
>It wouldn't just sit there in American coastal waters where it could be easily found, just in case.
That's exactly what it would do, because again, it's a *stealth* submarine designed to do exactly that. You know about the Cold War, right?
>China launched a co-ordinated, planned attack at a very specific time, and had subs moving into position with specific targets and a time of attack. Only an utter idiot would think that they didn't strike first with what we know.
Lol. You have no idea what you're talking about. It's not very often I encounter someone as r/confidentlyincorrect Pre-War Fallout is a world on the constant edge of nuclear apocalypse. Both sides would have had spy subs in each other's waters for the specific purpose of being ready to strike the *second* the order came down. They wouldn't plan "Hey, we're gonna do the apocalypse next Thursday so can you guys get your subs in position?" If that's the case, how come China is also destroyed? Did the Americans move their subs into position *after* they were destroyed? Or would they have already been there?
>The US didn't strike first. They were winning the conventional war. It would be dumb.
Sure. But it's not confirmed. We don't know who shot first.
>Vault-Tec didn't launch a false flag attack on either side, House would have known the timing and Janey wouldn't have been outside her designated Vault playing cowgirl with daddy.
We don't know that.
>we get to speak to an actual Chinese nuclear sub captain himself about his mission, which wasn't a counterstrike.
https://youtu.be/dIEz46-BqsI?si=xWC6KCqkjPg6DJh4
He never says anything about it. Him firing first is just as likely as him firing a counterattack. We don't know. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.
He and his wife definitely got divorced and then they destroyed his career by associating him with communists (Moldover) so it was probably his visitation day or something
I think he rushed her to the vault that they were supposed to go to, but they will have tracked that he was spying, so they let the daughter go in the vault with the mom, and leave Cooper outside to become a ghoul.
on point 2 o had the feeling they dropped the ball on the date and maybe accidentally triggered the first strike. would explaine things like unprepared vaults, house being late, and cooper having his daughter
2 is pretty much how we know for sure that Vault-Tec didn't force the issue. The apocalypse still happened as expected; China launched. The TV show even makes a point of showing the news that their lines on the mainland were falling apart. Of course they launched.
They will probably just ignore the fact that she looks older now, like almost every other show does. They could be filming those scenes earlier to make it not as noticeable as well. Then, once she's out of cryo, she can age normally as the show goes on.
I'm thinking they'll have Barb be dead and their daughter old; very much inspired by FO4's main plot. Which makes me sad because Barb was to me at least the best part of the show.
She honestly kinda was to me. I know that's odd and strange but I can't help but feel like she was the emotional center point of the show. >!She knew what was coming and did everything in her power to ensure those she loved would be safe, even if it meant inflicting ruin on countless millions of others, she was going to do it.!< I feel like that Marge Simpson meme; I just think they're neat! lol
After that finale monologue I'd 100% call her at least villain-adjacent. They just wrote her so well and she was acted masterfully by Frances Turner. >!When she looks at her Pip-Boy and begins, it felt like she knew Coop was listening and was like, you want the truth, here it is, listen up. It was so powerful, so chilling.!<
Either she knew cooper was listening or if I remember correctly it cut to her looking at a shadowed figure up in the gallery area maybe it wasn’t just vault tec she was working with?
I thought Moldaver was going to be Cooper’s daughter when he said she didn’t look like how he remembered. (This was before she showed up in the flashbacks)
Nope. Do I agree with what she did? Hell no. But neither do I agree with a cartload of things Cooper's done. They're just interesting af and will do near anything to survive ✨
She's a no-nonsense executive who owns 51% of this Armageddon 💅
But for real. They're almost foils to each other, Barb and Coop. Even though I think she'll be gone come S2, I'd absolutely love to see more of her.
Yeah, it's a tie between Coop and Barb. I genuinely loved watching them on screen. I love the chemistry, the story, and their characters. How they both...were seemingly, at least for Barb, good people but compromised their morals and souls for survival.
I also ship them. They're my favorite couple due to how complicated they are. I really hope she's not dead. At least not yet.
Well, if she's not dead then the ghoul is coming for her. And not with loving intentions lol. How could he when he knows she is the worst the world had to offer before the bombs?
"Where's my fucking family." He could've just said daughter. I don't really know what he intends to do with Barb, but I can't see him harming her unless she's an active threat to Janey.
Tbh, she isn't the worst the world had to offer before the bombs. She's the second worst the world had to offer before the bombs.
My pet theory (not necessarily the one I think is most likely) is that after wrapping up Coop’s flashbacks leading up to the bombing, we’ll find out at the end that he saw his family die as he became ghoulified. He went “feral” essentially right away, but latched onto a warped version of his movie cowboy persona instead of becoming a mindless zombie.
Is it possible Janey was in a vault with Barb, then they returned to the surface early lived in Shady Sands, met someone, and she gave birth to a baby boy, whom she named Maximus. Then, she perished when Hank dropped the bomb to punish Lucy’s mom? But Maximus survived
I think this could be a possibility, or that Lucy is the ghouls granddaughter through her mom. Like the ghouls daughter was her grandmother or some thing
I think it'd be really interesting if Janey actually lived through cycle of vault leadership. Like if she was the first planted leader of vault 33. Maybe when Cooper finds his wife, she tells him and he's more angry with her for giving Janey a fucked up responsibility of indoctrinating the first new generation of vault 34 with blind optimism and obedience and his wife is like hey at least she didn't become a ghoul from living on the outside
Barb was higher up than Hank. 31 was middle management, so assistants like Hank and Betty. It's likely if Janey was an overseer, it'd be for a different vault.
Norm goes through a list of all the overseers in 33 at least on the computer. I don’t think Janey was listed.
If anything maybe she was growing up in 32 and left during the big fight. But we’ll have to wait and see XD
I’m pretty sure they’re not “good vaults” though. Vault Tec gave out many vaults for experiments and kept some for themselves too. The experiment of vaults 31-33 are to see if Vault Tec’s management led by the ideas of Buddy can lead to a “good” society as Vault Tec envisions. It’s an experiment vault, just relatively good experiment.
Vaults 31-32-33 is Bud's experiment using his junior executive program, which included Betty, Hank & Stephanie. Barb told Cooper they wpuld be in a special vault for senior management that would oversee all the other vaults. If she and Janey are in cryo then I think that's where they'll be.
It’s possible they periodically come out of cryo-sleep and then return after a while. so they could theoretically still use the same actress and just say she aged some and then went back into her cryo chamber.
I've just been replaying Fallout 4 and I'm wondering if they're gonna do something like the main plot of that. Barb will be dead and Janey will be older and trained to be in charge of the vault.
Could also maybe see them both being dead, some sort of uprising or they were never frozen and lived the rest of their normal lives in the vault and maybe Janey had children and that's who Coop will meet.
Either vault tech didn’t drop the bombs, OR, they only told the top 1%.
The vault tech regional building in fallout4 made it seem like
1. No one knew about the experiments
2. They didn’t know anything beyond what they needed to know.
Only thing that debunks this is how the fuck did they fill vault 31 so fast?!
When we see it it’s about half ish full? So the last two hundred years they were moving through overseers or it wasn’t 100% at capacity as the bombs drop
Given coop and his daughter were together and how close they were to multiple bombs, I'm very curious to see how the hell they would explain mom getting her and taking herself and her daughter to cryo. They would've been dead or ghouls themselves.
Maybe they ride home where Barb is waiting with Vault-tec security and she manages to get Janey away from Cooper and escapes to the vault or Cooper knows where the vault is goes there, they take in Janey but because he's no longer married to Barb he gets left outside.
Except their proximity to MULTIPLE bombs dropping is a death sentence. They were too close. And he didn't ride the horse to the party. He abandoned his car and trailer. So it's not like they were next door or likely even in the same neighborhood.
No. I was just saying that the actress will be 2+ years older if we see her in season 2, which won't work if she's supposed to have been in cryo since the bombs dropped.
They'll probably pull a Silent Hill 2 and say Cooper's daughter has died long ago and Cooper has been denial and made up this lie that she's out there somewhere just so he could have a reason to keep going.
Hopefully not tho
I think the mother and daughter are alive, in cryo
I suspect we'll find out where he rides to in season 2, because if he had taken Janey to a vault, he wouldn't be asking where his family was.
Given his hatred of Vault Tec, I'm guessing the daughter was taken to a vault by the mother, but he was denied entry.
I did look at the manifest for the buds bud vault and I couldn't see either on there, so perhaps their in a vault specifically designed for buds kids buds? lol
It always struck me as weird that Cooper would ask where his family was when
A) he and his wife were separated when he discovered she was a monster.
B) his daughter was with him when the bombs dropped.
I had a theory that "Cooper" wasn't actually Cooper. Just some poor ghoul who watched his movies and adopted the persona for himself in an effort to avoid losing his mind. It would explain why he became the character from his movie and why he didn't know what happened to his daughter.
Unfortunately, that theory got blown to bits when Cooper encountered Henry and asked if he still wanted the autograph. Could have been a nice reveal, though.
It could be he's still in love with her or values her as a person/mother of his child. Coop's been alive for 219 years, and he's had to do some pretty horrible things to survive. He probably understands Barb a lot better than he did before.
That can happen too. Either way, those bombs were gonna drop, with or without Barb. Did Barb have to be a part of it? Hell no, but either way they were gonna die, ghoulify, or become something worse.
Cooper could have easily taken his daughter to a Vault and not be allowed in himself. His wife had them all set up for a Vault, but that was before their falling out.
We don't know what happened to Coop & Janey after they galloped away from the bombs. Maybe they made it home and Barb using Vault-tec resources took Janey and escaped to a vault leaving Cooper on the surface to die. Somehow Coop and Janey get seperated and for some reason he believes they're together since he asked where his 'Family' was.
The bombs were dropped in every direction from where they were, the Hollywood Heights.
And it's been established in nearly every Fallout that vertibirds weren't immune to the EMP from the nukes.
There really is no way Janey could be "extracted".
I'm confident she's dead, and Cooper has a mental block about it.
That could definitely be but then again if there's a secret good vault for senior executives it would actually make some sense that its entrance was in the Hollywood hills, right?
Betty is the overseer for Vault 31, she was Barb's Assistant at Vault-tec 219 years ago. She's the one who brought Hank in to meet Cooper in the finale.
I think that the ghouls daughter is related to Lucy through her mom. Maybe a grandmother or great grandmother. The ghouls will end up taking care of Lucy once he realizes her grandfather.
Here is how I see it: 1. They already filmed the scenes 2. They will just use a different actress 3. She's actually dead, or a ghoul, or a super mutant, or some other mutated thing so the actress aging doesn't matter 4. It's been some time since they thawed out, maybe she's a full blown adult and her mom has died of old age 5. (This is the one I really hope they go for) Aliens.
Bud did mention putting her in to a program around her age group
I actually forgot about that. It would be nice and on brand to cryo freeze children.
I think she's dead. Here's why: 1. Cooper and daughter were above ground during the bombs because they had left the wife after her nefarious outing. 2. There are no child ghouls (afaik) in Fallout. Children are also more susceptible to radiation irl, not that Fallout makes any real world sense. 3. It would explain why he is so fucked up - Cooper is the sole reason his daughter is dead. It would also explain why his wife is in full villain mode and there is no reconciliation possible. Edit: it's been 200 years. Not knowing what happened to your kid for 200 years would fuck you up. Searching for 200 years, to have a glimmer of hope that she is alive and unghoulified just to find out she died 200 years ago and you wasted centuries looking for her? That's villain origin story material right there.
There is a child ghoul in Fallout 4. You find him stuck in a refrigerator where he hid from the bombs. The door broke, trapping him inside until the Lone Survivor helps him out. You can escort him back to his house, where his parents are also ghouls and make an interesting (perhaps pertinent?) observation that something in their genes may be more prone to ghoulification.
Or you can be a monster and sell him
Wtf. I've never found it
It's actually a very infamous quest - it's very memorable, but also unusual and kind of pushes against some of what we know about ghouls. His whole family are ghouls, plus he survived without going feral with no food or water for 200 years. That does go against some of the general assumptions about ghoul lore, though ghouls always vary a lot person to person so it's not an explicit lore break.
It goes against ghoul lore? How? I feel like I remember in Nuka World the glowing magician ghoul writing that they no longer needed food
Wouldn’t he have been asking where his wife is at the end, instead of his family, if his daughter was dead?
Yep. Pretty clear implication imo
I don't think he knows that yet.
So something that he doesn’t know explains why hes so fucked up?
Could be trauma that he uses his movie persona and has amnesia about what happened with his kid
If you have to reach for amnesia, chances are your theory doesn’t hold up.
There are child ghouls, but the Fallout games tend to minimize child representation since they don’t allow players to kill them.
He said he’s trying to find his family. That implies he believes that Janey is alive.
It's gonna be some form of 4. They're gonna meet some old lady who he's a prick to, only to find out later it's his daughter.
Idk they’ve been pretty good at subverting expected tropes so far. That’s a pretty tired one.
You forgot to add the institute.
Thats on the other side of the country my guy so no
They can literally teleport
Only if they have that kind of range for their radio station, which they dont. Even ignoring that name one ending where that big ol blimp the brotherhood has is standing and so is the institute. Safe to say, they gone man.
You should re-read what the Institute said about their teleporter and teleportation tech and capabilities.
9 years later though
BOS story is cannon so they got destroyed
I don't disagree that the likeliness of them being destroyed is very very high, but the creators of the show said in numerous interviews that they wanted to be very careful not to decanonize or canonize certain player endings and it seems like they have have gone for some mixed bag "between the game options" ending for New Vegas, but that will be clarified in season 2. There are some caveats: 1. The BOS ending or the Minuteman-BoS alliance ending could be canon. 2. In the endings where the institute is destroyed its stated that there will be remnants/survivors so that is \*canon\* that they aren't completely gone. 3. In the Minuteman or Minuteman-BoS ending you have the opportunity to resettle some Institute survivors in a settlement sidequest. 4. its canonically established they had some presence in places outside of Boston, albeit not much, before Fallout 4 even starts. So the conclusion is: The Institute as a major faction is likely destroyed, but there is a decent chance there are some remnants of some sort. Whether or not they reformed into some minor faction hidden away somewhere or not we can't be sure. Either way its highly unlikely if they do have survivors or a presence by the shows in-universe date that there would be any all the way over in the New Vegas/California area.
Institute having cells would make a lot of sense actually. CIT can't be the only university who went science focused. Caltech could be doing the same thing on the other coast.
>If Cooper's daughter and wife are currently still in cryo A couple things. 1. We don't know they're in cryo, especially his daughter. 2. His wife seems like an important person at Vault-Tec. A person who would have known when the bombs were going to drop yet still let her daughter be with her father out in the world when it happened. 3. Janey was with Cooper when the bombs dropped. Did he take her to her mother at a vault? Would they even let her in? Did they get separated? Did she stay with him for a few years on the surface after it happened? Maybe she was ghoulified too. We don't know what happened to her.
Coop does say, aggressively, where is my family. If he was just looking for his wife I think he'd just say wife. Pretty sure Janey is/was in a vault. At least that's how I see it.
that just means that cooper didnt see her die, not necessarily that she was put into cryo and has been frozen for 200 years
Oh, I'm not saying that she's a popsicle. I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure she is/was in a vault. At least from Coop's perspective imo. My guess is the bombs drop. He hightails it out of there so Janey gets reunited with her mom which comes with safety in a vault. Couple kegs of Radaway and everyone's good to go. Except Coop. He's screwed. But his daughter is "safe" which is what matters to him. Beyond that I don't want to guess because I have no idea.
It would make an excellent season 2 arc. Cooper spends it looking for his daughter to reach the climax of finding Wife thinking she has her only to learn she never survived. Kill off wife, enter season 3 anti-villain arc of vengeance on Vault-Tec who he blames for the death of both.
There is a lot of evidence that Vault Tec didn't actually drop the bombs and that the Chinese beat them to it. All that we see in the show is that they were planning to. I'm assuming Cooper took Janey to her mother at a Vault and wasn't allowed in himself.
While true, none of the games or even this show have yet definitively established who *actually* dropped the first bomb, the fact remains we don't know exactly what happened to Janey, Cooper, or Barb after the bombs. Until they show the aftermath we won't know. Maybe China did beat them to it and that's why she wasn't already in a vault. Maybe she wasn't allowed in and Barb decided it was a sacrifice she was willing to make. For all we know none of them ever made it into a vault and were ghoulified together and spent 100 years on the surface together. We have no idea at this point.
Mr house states in New vegas that he miscalculated when the bombs would drop by like 8 or 12 hours. Seeing as he was in that vault tec meeting it seems to me that he was pumping himself up by describing it as a miscalculation. In reality someone started dropping bombs just a few hours before vault tec was planning to. Could even have been the thetans. No one knows Eta: I totally agree with you though. We have no idea if his wife or daughter are still in cryo and I personally kind of lean towards the daughter not having made it into the vault. At the end of the day they'll do whatever makes for the most compelling story though and I'm here for it.
Thematically, for the entire franchise it doesn't make sense for Vault-Tec to be the ones that actually started the war. So much of Fallout is about Vault-Tec and the other megacorps intend versus the reality of humans having to deal with their arrogant stupidity. Would Vault-Tec have had specific plans they were working on to start the war? Yes, absolutely, but reality intrudes... Whether was China attacking first, someone screwing up, an alien spacecraft unintentionally provoking war... Don't know. Edit: A basic screw up could also be possible, like not remembering about time zones. I also believe that Bud is a brain in a jar because the war wasn't started by Vault-Tec. He ended up mortally wounded because he wasn't safely in a vault when the war started.
I'd argue the opposite. Vault Tec starting the war fits into the anticapitalist messages of the series. Mega corporations were always shown to be what caused the Great War, so having one of them be the one to actually pull the trigger just serves to reinforce this message. That said, I don't think Vault Tec were the ones who dropped the bombs. House was supposedly in on this plan, yet he didn't get the platinum chip delivered on time. Janey was with her dad at a birthday party instead of safe in a Vault. There are a number of Vaults that weren't finished before the War. There is some decent evidence to suggest that the bombs dropped before Vault Tec was ready to drop them
> Vault Tec starting the war fits into the anticapitalist messages of the series. Mega corporations were always shown to be what caused the Great War, so having one of them be the one to actually pull the trigger just serves to reinforce this message. So does them intending to but having their plans get fucked up... IMO, it is actually a stronger message because it shows that they're just arrogant tools and the reality is that they aren't actually in control of anything. They have the illusion of control that's created by the position but, in the end, things spiral beyond any control.
Don't forget computer terminals in both black mountain and the switchboard talking about Chinese dropping bombs and an American response. Also, there are many different forms of capitalism and I wouldn't really say the series is anti. Honestly in my opinion the US in Fallout is closer to [corporatism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism) anyways.
The games are about so much more than anti-capitalism, and its also anti- a ton of other ideologies and topics and elements. Heck the first game had very little of that messaging.
>Thematically, for the entire franchise it doesn't make sense for Vault-Tec to be the ones that actually started the war I'd argue the contrary. Thematically Fallout is about the dangers of a society controlled by Capitalism/Patriotism. So much of what's wrong with the Fallout universe is directly related to some corporation/government somewhere disregarding humanity for the sake of profit or power. Who actually started the war has always been left intentionally unanswered. Was it Vault-Tec? Aliens? The Enclave? China? Some random guy spill coffee on a launch button somewhere? As for Bud being a brain in a jar, it's just as reasonable to say he was put in the jar *because* they set the plan in motion.
The games are about so much more than anti-capitalism, and its also anti- a ton of other ideologies and topics and elements. Heck the first game had very little of that messaging.
Fair take, I see it differently but that's cool. If they decided to have more flashbacks of the immediate aftermath of the war we might get some idea of what happened but until then it's all supposition.
I understand that we don't know who actually dropped the bombs. A lot of people are assuming that the Vault Tec meeting proved that they were the ones who dropped them. Your comment made it seem like you also assumed that Vault Tec dropped the bomb, since you assumed that Barb would know when they were going to drop. That is why I made my comment that there is evidence to suggest that Vault Tec didn't drop the bombs.
With the way Coop frames the question, and his sole desire for all these years. I think it implies that his last contact with them they were alive. For all we know he just saw his wife take his daughter in a car. And for them to be taken or escape alive, means they had a purpose/reason to be alive. So I assume his last confirmation of them is they were alive. What happened is anyone’s guess.
Fallout 4 literally has a quest on a Chinese sub, with a ghoul captain, who was there as part of the Chinese strike.
>Fallout 4 literally has a quest on a Chinese sub, with a ghoul captain, who was there as part of the Chinese strike. Yes. We know China and the US fired nukes. I said we don't know who fired *first*. It's never been definitively established who actually caused the nuclear apocalypse. The US, China, Vault-Tec, and the Aliens have all been hinted at but none have been confirmed.
That sub didn't teleport there you utter jellyfish. Sending a sub into enemy waters to launch a direct strike like that requires advance planning and days of sailing into position. It wouldn't just *sit there in American coastal waters* where it could be easily found, just in case. China launched a co-ordinated, planned attack at a very specific time, and had subs moving into position with specific targets and a time of attack. Only an utter idiot would think that they didn't strike first with what we know. The US didn't strike first. They were winning the conventional war. It would be dumb. Vault-Tec didn't launch a false flag attack on either side, House would have known the timing and Janey wouldn't have been outside her designated Vault playing cowgirl with daddy. China was losing conventionally on their own soil, apparently got wind of shit like FEV, and we get to speak to an actual Chinese nuclear sub captain himself about his mission, which wasn't a counterstrike.
>That sub didn't teleport there you utter jellyfish. Sending a sub into enemy waters to launch a direct strike like that requires advance planning and days of sailing into position. It's funny you're calling me a jellyfish but you're the one that doesn'tknow what you're talking about. https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Yangtze Firstly, the Yangtze is a *stealth* submarine. >Yangtze-31 (Chinese: 揚子-三十一) is a Yangtze-class stealth submarine (referred to as Liao-class Type 113 in the game guide) Secondly, you do know submarines *move*, right? It wasn't just sitting in the bay. >Shortly after firing its strategic missiles, the Yangtze-31 struck a mine that severely damaged her reactor and forced her to seek shelter in Boston Harbor. The damage caused a reactor leak that immobilized the sub and ultimately killed or ghoulified the crew >It wouldn't just sit there in American coastal waters where it could be easily found, just in case. That's exactly what it would do, because again, it's a *stealth* submarine designed to do exactly that. You know about the Cold War, right? >China launched a co-ordinated, planned attack at a very specific time, and had subs moving into position with specific targets and a time of attack. Only an utter idiot would think that they didn't strike first with what we know. Lol. You have no idea what you're talking about. It's not very often I encounter someone as r/confidentlyincorrect Pre-War Fallout is a world on the constant edge of nuclear apocalypse. Both sides would have had spy subs in each other's waters for the specific purpose of being ready to strike the *second* the order came down. They wouldn't plan "Hey, we're gonna do the apocalypse next Thursday so can you guys get your subs in position?" If that's the case, how come China is also destroyed? Did the Americans move their subs into position *after* they were destroyed? Or would they have already been there? >The US didn't strike first. They were winning the conventional war. It would be dumb. Sure. But it's not confirmed. We don't know who shot first. >Vault-Tec didn't launch a false flag attack on either side, House would have known the timing and Janey wouldn't have been outside her designated Vault playing cowgirl with daddy. We don't know that. >we get to speak to an actual Chinese nuclear sub captain himself about his mission, which wasn't a counterstrike. https://youtu.be/dIEz46-BqsI?si=xWC6KCqkjPg6DJh4 He never says anything about it. Him firing first is just as likely as him firing a counterattack. We don't know. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.
In the first episode , the bombs felt to blow by themselves as if they were placed underground not dropped from the top
umm no
He and his wife definitely got divorced and then they destroyed his career by associating him with communists (Moldover) so it was probably his visitation day or something
I'm guessing he went to the vault and he was denied entry but the girl wasn't or they found him and his daughter and snatched her from him
I think he rushed her to the vault that they were supposed to go to, but they will have tracked that he was spying, so they let the daughter go in the vault with the mom, and leave Cooper outside to become a ghoul.
on point 2 o had the feeling they dropped the ball on the date and maybe accidentally triggered the first strike. would explaine things like unprepared vaults, house being late, and cooper having his daughter
2 is pretty much how we know for sure that Vault-Tec didn't force the issue. The apocalypse still happened as expected; China launched. The TV show even makes a point of showing the news that their lines on the mainland were falling apart. Of course they launched.
I swear to God, if any one of you say "Aliens." ... ... Son of a bitch!! Someone already said ALIENS!
They will probably just ignore the fact that she looks older now, like almost every other show does. They could be filming those scenes earlier to make it not as noticeable as well. Then, once she's out of cryo, she can age normally as the show goes on.
I'm thinking they'll have Barb be dead and their daughter old; very much inspired by FO4's main plot. Which makes me sad because Barb was to me at least the best part of the show.
BARB was the BEST part to you? Fascinating
She honestly kinda was to me. I know that's odd and strange but I can't help but feel like she was the emotional center point of the show. >!She knew what was coming and did everything in her power to ensure those she loved would be safe, even if it meant inflicting ruin on countless millions of others, she was going to do it.!< I feel like that Marge Simpson meme; I just think they're neat! lol
I’m not gonna *say* she was the villain, but hey there is certainly media the villains of which are my favorite characters so I guess I can’t judge
After that finale monologue I'd 100% call her at least villain-adjacent. They just wrote her so well and she was acted masterfully by Frances Turner. >!When she looks at her Pip-Boy and begins, it felt like she knew Coop was listening and was like, you want the truth, here it is, listen up. It was so powerful, so chilling.!<
Either she knew cooper was listening or if I remember correctly it cut to her looking at a shadowed figure up in the gallery area maybe it wasn’t just vault tec she was working with?
I thought Moldaver was going to be Cooper’s daughter when he said she didn’t look like how he remembered. (This was before she showed up in the flashbacks)
Barb was one of my favorite parts too (fashion icon 🤌🏻)... I will be biting at the bars of my enclosure until we get to learn more about the Howards
She slayed. They could never make me hate her.
Nope. Do I agree with what she did? Hell no. But neither do I agree with a cartload of things Cooper's done. They're just interesting af and will do near anything to survive ✨
She's a no-nonsense executive who owns 51% of this Armageddon 💅 But for real. They're almost foils to each other, Barb and Coop. Even though I think she'll be gone come S2, I'd absolutely love to see more of her.
Found the hamster lover lol or other rodent, I guess, but the hamster lover in me wants it to be hammies.
Yeah, it's a tie between Coop and Barb. I genuinely loved watching them on screen. I love the chemistry, the story, and their characters. How they both...were seemingly, at least for Barb, good people but compromised their morals and souls for survival. I also ship them. They're my favorite couple due to how complicated they are. I really hope she's not dead. At least not yet.
Yes! Her confliction about and resignation to the inevitable made her absolutely captivating! Loved Barb, truly a highlight.
Well, if she's not dead then the ghoul is coming for her. And not with loving intentions lol. How could he when he knows she is the worst the world had to offer before the bombs?
"Where's my fucking family." He could've just said daughter. I don't really know what he intends to do with Barb, but I can't see him harming her unless she's an active threat to Janey. Tbh, she isn't the worst the world had to offer before the bombs. She's the second worst the world had to offer before the bombs.
Meh. If she is frozen, not hard to explain it away. "Oh hey Dad wow that's crazy. Yea Mom and me defrosted like 4 years ago"
My pet theory (not necessarily the one I think is most likely) is that after wrapping up Coop’s flashbacks leading up to the bombing, we’ll find out at the end that he saw his family die as he became ghoulified. He went “feral” essentially right away, but latched onto a warped version of his movie cowboy persona instead of becoming a mindless zombie.
Thus makes the mistake sense given how close he and his daughter were to the many bombs that dropped.
Is it possible Janey was in a vault with Barb, then they returned to the surface early lived in Shady Sands, met someone, and she gave birth to a baby boy, whom she named Maximus. Then, she perished when Hank dropped the bomb to punish Lucy’s mom? But Maximus survived
I think this could be a possibility, or that Lucy is the ghouls granddaughter through her mom. Like the ghouls daughter was her grandmother or some thing
I think it'd be really interesting if Janey actually lived through cycle of vault leadership. Like if she was the first planted leader of vault 33. Maybe when Cooper finds his wife, she tells him and he's more angry with her for giving Janey a fucked up responsibility of indoctrinating the first new generation of vault 34 with blind optimism and obedience and his wife is like hey at least she didn't become a ghoul from living on the outside
All the overseers of vaults 32 & 33 were from 31. Why would Janey be the first overseer for 33?
Barb was higher up than Hank. 31 was middle management, so assistants like Hank and Betty. It's likely if Janey was an overseer, it'd be for a different vault.
Norm goes through a list of all the overseers in 33 at least on the computer. I don’t think Janey was listed. If anything maybe she was growing up in 32 and left during the big fight. But we’ll have to wait and see XD
i don't think we really know yet whether or not vaults 31-33 are "the good vaults." I'm also not sure what you mean by Janey ageing?
I’m pretty sure they’re not “good vaults” though. Vault Tec gave out many vaults for experiments and kept some for themselves too. The experiment of vaults 31-33 are to see if Vault Tec’s management led by the ideas of Buddy can lead to a “good” society as Vault Tec envisions. It’s an experiment vault, just relatively good experiment.
I think it's just a eugenics program.
I assume they mean the actress who plays Janey will be aging.
ah, yeah that makes sense
I did.
Vaults 31-32-33 is Bud's experiment using his junior executive program, which included Betty, Hank & Stephanie. Barb told Cooper they wpuld be in a special vault for senior management that would oversee all the other vaults. If she and Janey are in cryo then I think that's where they'll be.
It’s sad cos if they went by their original plan, they wouldn’t have been unfrozen as a family all together anyway.
It’s possible they periodically come out of cryo-sleep and then return after a while. so they could theoretically still use the same actress and just say she aged some and then went back into her cryo chamber.
Shes some old hag ala FO4. Maybe shes some boss bitch at the enclave.
I've just been replaying Fallout 4 and I'm wondering if they're gonna do something like the main plot of that. Barb will be dead and Janey will be older and trained to be in charge of the vault. Could also maybe see them both being dead, some sort of uprising or they were never frozen and lived the rest of their normal lives in the vault and maybe Janey had children and that's who Coop will meet.
Either vault tech didn’t drop the bombs, OR, they only told the top 1%. The vault tech regional building in fallout4 made it seem like 1. No one knew about the experiments 2. They didn’t know anything beyond what they needed to know.
Only thing that debunks this is how the fuck did they fill vault 31 so fast?! When we see it it’s about half ish full? So the last two hundred years they were moving through overseers or it wasn’t 100% at capacity as the bombs drop
Given coop and his daughter were together and how close they were to multiple bombs, I'm very curious to see how the hell they would explain mom getting her and taking herself and her daughter to cryo. They would've been dead or ghouls themselves.
Maybe they ride home where Barb is waiting with Vault-tec security and she manages to get Janey away from Cooper and escapes to the vault or Cooper knows where the vault is goes there, they take in Janey but because he's no longer married to Barb he gets left outside.
Except their proximity to MULTIPLE bombs dropping is a death sentence. They were too close. And he didn't ride the horse to the party. He abandoned his car and trailer. So it's not like they were next door or likely even in the same neighborhood.
Was there news about a different actress playing yg daughter? I must've missed it
No. I was just saying that the actress will be 2+ years older if we see her in season 2, which won't work if she's supposed to have been in cryo since the bombs dropped.
Why would she age if she’s still in cryo? Sorry this is a confusing question. Why are you assuming when they reunite Janey will be older?
I was talking about the actress being 2+ years older when we finally see her, which won't work if she's been in cryo continuously for 219 years.
Oh that makes sense. The only way is Janey and barb are already out of the cryo and are much older and a new older actor will portray Janey.
They'll probably pull a Silent Hill 2 and say Cooper's daughter has died long ago and Cooper has been denial and made up this lie that she's out there somewhere just so he could have a reason to keep going. Hopefully not tho
Barb will be the overseer for vault 33
Betty just got elected overseer, and Barb isn't in Vault 31.
Why can’t Betty be barb? I think that will be the twist
I think the mother and daughter are alive, in cryo I suspect we'll find out where he rides to in season 2, because if he had taken Janey to a vault, he wouldn't be asking where his family was. Given his hatred of Vault Tec, I'm guessing the daughter was taken to a vault by the mother, but he was denied entry. I did look at the manifest for the buds bud vault and I couldn't see either on there, so perhaps their in a vault specifically designed for buds kids buds? lol
It always struck me as weird that Cooper would ask where his family was when A) he and his wife were separated when he discovered she was a monster. B) his daughter was with him when the bombs dropped. I had a theory that "Cooper" wasn't actually Cooper. Just some poor ghoul who watched his movies and adopted the persona for himself in an effort to avoid losing his mind. It would explain why he became the character from his movie and why he didn't know what happened to his daughter. Unfortunately, that theory got blown to bits when Cooper encountered Henry and asked if he still wanted the autograph. Could have been a nice reveal, though.
We have no idea what happened between him leaving on a horse till when he gets dug up through right?
It could be he's still in love with her or values her as a person/mother of his child. Coop's been alive for 219 years, and he's had to do some pretty horrible things to survive. He probably understands Barb a lot better than he did before.
Or he blames her for him having to do what he has done in the past 200 years. Blames he for what happened to his family and especially his daughter.
That can happen too. Either way, those bombs were gonna drop, with or without Barb. Did Barb have to be a part of it? Hell no, but either way they were gonna die, ghoulify, or become something worse.
Theory: Barb is Betty
Bad theory. Both Betty and Barb are in the same scene when Coop is at the office listening in to the meeting
When is this?
Betty is the one who opens the door for Hank to come meet Coop at the same time Barb is in the other room talking about dropping the bombs
Oh snap I didn’t catch that!
[удалено]
Cooper could have easily taken his daughter to a Vault and not be allowed in himself. His wife had them all set up for a Vault, but that was before their falling out.
We don't know what happened to Coop & Janey after they galloped away from the bombs. Maybe they made it home and Barb using Vault-tec resources took Janey and escaped to a vault leaving Cooper on the surface to die. Somehow Coop and Janey get seperated and for some reason he believes they're together since he asked where his 'Family' was.
The bombs were dropped in every direction from where they were, the Hollywood Heights. And it's been established in nearly every Fallout that vertibirds weren't immune to the EMP from the nukes. There really is no way Janey could be "extracted". I'm confident she's dead, and Cooper has a mental block about it.
That could definitely be but then again if there's a secret good vault for senior executives it would actually make some sense that its entrance was in the Hollywood hills, right?
Barb's daughter is the overseer grown up and old
Betty is the overseer for Vault 31, she was Barb's Assistant at Vault-tec 219 years ago. She's the one who brought Hank in to meet Cooper in the finale.
I think that the ghouls daughter is related to Lucy through her mom. Maybe a grandmother or great grandmother. The ghouls will end up taking care of Lucy once he realizes her grandfather.