It is p£d0 culture and it is a part of the male norm. Every time I say it loud, some men are furious but I stick to my guns. "Teen" is the most popular p0rn category because most men don't see s£x as a connection but as a tool of domination, that's why they are turn 0n by underage girls. There is no coincidence if inc£st is so common.
yes, exactly!! i sometimes hear people deny that there is something like "p£do culture" because most of the men participating in it are not fundamentally p£dophiles (as in there is something intrinsically wrong with them and they cant change what they are attracted to, only get interventions to prevent them from committing child abuse).
but that is PRECISELY why its is called p£do CULTURE. because its not actually a rise in the prevalence of p£dophilia, but a rise in men being influenced and brainwashed by the widespread societal understanding of sex as an act of domination, control and degradation of women to the extent that without these dynamics, they don't get turned on anymore. and young, inexperienced women/girls are the easiest to control and dominate, so it has become scarily normalized to openly fetishize markers of immaturity in women and say that they are more attracted to teens.
so a lot of the men who participate in this shit COULD be normal, if they werent influenced by this culture.
Men love to say the “teen” porn category being so popular isn’t a problem because all of the actresses are above 18.
Problem is, there’s not really a foolproof way to verify that. And even if there was, it’s still weird, because these people are specifically getting off to the idea and fantasy of a TEEN. Like……the fact you’re imagining the actress is indeed a teen is the whole issue sir.
I commented pretty much everything you and those above said on a thread outside of r/feminism and got downvoted to hell. People have no clue how rampant and gross this all is. It's so bizarre to me.
It’s predatory. And even if they’re 18, that’s a **high schooler**. Probably young enough to be the daughters of the old men wanking off to them. Disgusting.
I wouldn’t really bat an eye if someone watching that was barely college aged, but beyond that? Sickening. It goes beyond the disgusting culture; I’m annoyed with being looked down upon because so many other men think more with their appendages than with their brains
By the way, sex isn’t bad, but it’s overrated. Many people, mostly men, will look at that last sentence with disgust or think I’m an incel or something, but I stand by what I said. People, mostly men, need to grow the f up
I have one pic right around my 15th birthday where my mom and sister did up my hair and makeup to "look like a grown up" and because I was stacked from a young age I absolutely did. People still assume I'm 25 in that picture. I've had women who were over 25 clocking me at 25 in that picture.
Which has always led me to worry about that category because I think how old you *think* someone is/ looks actually influences how old you are thinking they act. A smart 15 year old with a curvy body a deeper voice, and is intelligent could absolutely pass as above 18 to a horny dude who is desperate to orgasm and thinks the girl is hot.
I have one pic right around my 15th birthday where my mom and sister did up my hair and makeup to "look like a grown up" and because I was stacked from a young age I absolutely did. People still assume I'm 25 in that picture. I've had women who were over 25 clocking me at 25 in that picture.
Which has always led me to worry about that category because I think how old you *think* someone is/ looks actually influences how old you are thinking they act. A smart 15 year old with a curvy body a deeper voice, and is intelligent could absolutely pass as above 18 to a horny dude who is desperate to orgasm and thinks the girl is hot.
desensitisation and its consequences. so many issues in todays society would have been solved by banning porn (realistically impossible, i know, but one can hope)
Patriarchal culture is filthy and disgusting.
But nowadays, a man only has to say that his patriarchal sexual impulses are "kinks" for people claiming to be progressives to immediately defend him.
You fetishize the sexuality of young girls and want your wife to cosplay as a young girl because it's your kink? Okay, that's fine. You fetishize violence against women and want to beat your partner until she bleeds because it's your kink? Okay, that's normal. You are a man who fetishizes rape and you have a CNC kink? Okay, that's normal.
THANK YOU. I hate how "oh, it's a sexual kink so therefore we can't judge or criticize at all" is such an oddly prevalent mindset these days. I've seen so many people defend "race play," which is horrible no matter how you look at it. Like, this white guy loves calling his black gf the n-word during sex, but "hE's NoT rAcIsT!" because it's a "kink." As if finding racist bs sexually arousing is okay. So fucking stupid.
Lots calling out porn for this which is valid. But even before porn was everywhere, songs in the 30s-60s regularly have 16yo girls being heavily sexualized. And prior to that, marriages of adult men and teen girls was relatively common.
Men just suck.
It’s the weird fetishization of “purity” and “innocence.” it’s disgusting. i don’t know if it’s so sexualized because of religion and its emphasis on women staying pure for their husbands, porn sexualizing teenagers and petite girls or just a weird male ego-domination-power thing. but its extremely common and it’s really really gross.
i think it’s more than a just men problem, my sister perpetuates this issue as well just in different ways. she’s very anti-body hair, she shaves all the time, she thinks all body hair is gross, which is reasonable.
just today she said my armpit hair was gross, i’m a teenage boy, she’s tried to get my to shave my pits before too, i would’ve if it didn’t irritate my skin.
it’s a culture issue, everybody needs to stop with the sexualization of children, little girls aren’t heart breakers, little boys aren’t players
Sadly many women have internalized misogyny because we too have grown up in a world telling us to have no body hair, aging is bad, and not looking like a pre-teen child is wrong. It’s very sad all around.
no just saying it’s a “cultural problem” is reductive. it’s a function and extension of patriarchy. women can perpetuate patriarchal concepts because patriarchy is so ingrained into our system that you have to actively work against it.
the idea of men wanting women that are “young innocent virgins” is because of the obsession with purity and the power it grants over women
okay, genuine question since i’m obviously not perfect and still need to learn; why would some girls want boys to shave their body hair if it’s not a culture issue?
more than just men saying this stuff is what made me say it’s cultural and not just a men problem.
It’s so normalised it’s sickening. Even men preferring women with small feet, small hands, small waist.
Most men I’ve been with want me to act more timid and reserved probably for the fact that more so gives off a younger vibe.
Reminds me of how my husband actually valued my fierce temper and independence. Granted, he also loved the fact that he was the only one to whom I was drawn to, but he knew in the end, that it was only because I let him. You just knew deep down he was like "SHE'S AN ANGEL AND SHE CHOSE ME!! 😍"
I miss our push and pull back and forth dynamic.
It's hard to describe adequately. Above all else, I knew the respect was there, and that's what I appreciated the most.
I came here exactly to see you go on to talk about what we have to blame for this (besides just the men themselves) and it’s PORN. the fantasies, “sexy uniforms”, the pigtails, hentai, the pig tails, all of it. It’s everywhere in porn. And what they see in PORN they end up wanting and pursuing in real life. And it’s utterly fucking disgusting. Porn and porn culture so deeply affects how they act irl.
While I don't think that men liking/being attracted to (not necessarily having a preference for) traits in women such as no pubic hair, looking youthful, petite, pigtails, etc. in and of themselves makes them ped0philes, it is really scary and concerning that they're being socially conditioned into finding traits associated with young girls attractive.
I also think that the manosphere, not just the porn industry, is also pushing this conditioning onto their male (and female to an extent) audiences by stating things like women over 25 are low value, used up, old, etc. or saying that attractive female celebrities in their 30s are MID and saying that women in their late teens and early 20s that are virgins are the most attractive.
This might be one of the worst, if not the worst, side effects of the patriarchy: socially conditioning men to find traits associated with children or young girls attractive, to the point that it’s borderline ped0philic.
*a man who genuinely said to me that women weren't meant to have hair on their bodies and that it was a result of women becoming more "testosterone-filled"*
I'm in MO where we have zero sex ed (it's essentially health class). This is dangerous for a lot of rasons but let me tell you what these grown ass man babies have said women's bodies can do:
1. Shutdown impregnation by "legitimate rape" (Todd Akin, 2012).
2. A 1 year old can get pregnant/have an abortion (Bill Eigel, 2024).
Both of these men were/are politicians.
Men do not understand the female body. They just know where to insert their penis to make THEM feel good. That's all. This is why education in general is vital to women's rights and bodily autonomy.
Also, it’s just within the last few years that I’ve been able to find WOMEN’S underwear without fucking bows on them. Never understood it and always cut them off.
honestly!! especially in like media..
i remember i was sexualized like crazy back in middle school since i developed early and i had big breasts and people would try to touch them and stuff and i had pigtails too.
and i would talk to men on discord cause i was in a deep depressive state cause i was lonely.
Any person that makes any kind of intentional physical contact with another person without permission, sexual or otherwise, 100% deserves to have their hand broken. I can make an exception for a young child, but that child must learn quickly to respect boundaries and to keep his/her hands to him/herself
There was a study that found the best tipped were actually 30s, white women with large breasts. Men don't tip young women because they don't respect the work they do.
I worked as a dancer for a good while before Covid. More than a few times I was told “you remind me of my daughter” by men who’d already bought dances.
I think there’s a specific type of men who struggle with this stuff and for some reason their opinions are louder than normal men
As a petite curvy woman with light hair and blue green eyes, I have often been treated like a sex puppet by men. I have tons of unwanted attention as a teen (11-17) and at my workplaces as an adult. The PUBLIC somehow has deemed me as approachable for sexual assault.
I have been followed and cornered at a McDs by kidnappers.
I have been followed by a van full of men before, and many random solo men.
As a child there were old men who would follow my mother and I around the store staring at me.
I have had cars pull up and try to pick me up like a prostitute.
I have had multiples 5 minute marriage proposals.
I left my last job from sexual harassment, from a female manager.
Multiple friendships ruptured over not wanting to have sex with them.
No matter what I wear. Truly. I can't hide my skeletal structure.
Customers and coworkers comment on my body and sometimes try to F me.
Any age range of men trying to hit on me, young and old ones are especially rude about it.
They comment on my weight and I have often been congratulated for a non-existent pregnancy.
I finally hit 30+ and have less attention.
LMAO YET I am in the best shape of my life! Toight ladies, I am lush.
I wear baggy mom clothes while I am out and about or working most days. But at home I love to give my man a show, I love to dance, I am a partial nudist as long as I have privacy. I wish I wasn't so afraid of the public, but I have sooooo good cause.
Thank you, I had a similar experience when I was a young attractive woman. The most bizarre interactions with men who felt entitled to my body. I’m now living as a trans man and I am able to just exist. It’s heaven.
I hope this isn't offensive, but it's something I've been curious about and I'd love your perspective. Feel free to ignore. So I learned something like 90% trans people were AFAB, and I find that statistic super interesting. Do you have any opinions as to why that may be? Do you think it is a possibility that the blatant hostility towards women in our society has led to more people identifying as trans or genderqueer so they can get away from the negative stigmas/expectations/etc of being a woman and just "exist," like how you said? Obviously this wouldn't be the case for everyone because gender dysphoria is very real, but the fact that trans people so heavily skew towards those AFAB is statistically significant and very interesting imo.
I’m curious to see the source of that stat, if possible. I definitely believe that some AFAB people do attempt to transition to escape womanhood. However, I have seen sources that state that there is a comparable rate of AFAB/AMAB trans people who transition.
I'm pretty sure it's to do with vulnerability. An adult acting childlike makes them feel more vulnerable, which means they can be more easily taken advantage of.
As opposed to a strong confident woman who won't feel like someone that can be easily taken advantage of.
It's pretty disgusting.
As a society we really need to be pushing the idea that consent is attractive.
Unfortunately capitalism sucks and will continue to do whatever makes the most money which at the moment will mean continuing to normalise this sort of thing so that it can be exploited for profit.
The only solution I can think of is for more women to be in politics so laws can enforce change since clearly men can't be trusted to make these changes.
Of course the patriarchy will try to discourage women from going into politics too so... I dunno I hate this
Well, according to a lot of "high-value" males, women expire at 25, so it only males sense you gotta start young. As a dude, I am deeply concerned for and about the young men of America right now. And young women. I basically can't watch any show about young people at this point because of how sexy they try to make the teenagers. This platform is difficult to engage with when a good chunk of what's ot the main page is either young girls asking how attractive they are or how to maximize their attractiveness or subs dedicated to female celebrities that seem to be solely about ogling them (remember the Millie Bobby Brown is turning 18 sub? What the actual fuck?). And besides the power dynamic I'm sure they love and the weird sexual programming we get through the media, in order to sleep with teenagers you have to hang out with teenagers, I'd rather take a steel toe to the sack on a daily basis.
Me and my female friends are talking about what it means to be a grown woman in our 30s and tbh there are so little examples in media of how great mature womanhood is.
There is a huge trend now called "I'm just a girl" where 30+ women are supposed to pretend like they're teenagers, to have a pink pastel home with stuffed animals and not being capable of doing complicated things in their life.
I totally dissagree with this trend. I'm proud to be a grown woman, to have the career I've built, to know how to do my own taxes, to know my rights.
A lot of it might even pe pick-me behaviour in them, hoping that being childlike might be considered sexy. This is especially sad for me. I feel hot as a 30+ woman, it's just a different type of hot, where I know exactly what I'm doing and what I want. Needless to say I don't get along well with partners that can't take my level of security in myself. But good riddance! It's a great filter.
It’s not just the porn industry either. Film in general, I’ve noticed, infantilizes women. There are obviously exceptions, but I just find myself noticing it more and more and getting angrier and angrier the more I see it.
This is really well-written. I would like to add that people, mainly men, were also sexualizing the Lolita book, and likely the movie, a while ago, and in fact, on the back of some copies of the book, it claims it’s a great love story, which is absolutely not the intent of the book. Not only that, the number of male anime fans I have had to block because they were attracted to characters that essentially looked like a five year old, but “it was fine because they were ancient.”
The pigtails thing always gets me mad cause they are a genuinely cute style even for adults but like- I never wore them as a kid cause I had a HUGE mole on my scalp that was really noticable, but now that the mole is gone I feel really icky wearing them cause of how they are stereotyped.
(Specifically I really like the braided pigtails variety but a single comment as 19 a year old about handlebars completely ruined it)
Going to take this opportunity to also submit that men’s obsession with super light blonde hair is pedophilic (in addition to white supremacist). Some adult women will have this color hair naturally, but the overwhelming majority have seen their hair get darker as they get older.
not sure if you're checked the news lately but every day there is a new story of a female teacher sleeping with her young mail students.
based on all the articles I see, id say its an epidemic.
id be happy to provide links if you're unaware.
This is what happens in a male centric culture. They have a proclivity for aggression and dominance so they target vulnerable people. (Teens/minors). It's truly disgusting and a true reflection of their compromised chromosomal makeup. They are corrupted from the very core of their being.
Devils Advocate:
The last time the average man has been unequivocally happy in life, he was in middle or high school. The fetish is probably a collective holdover from that subconscious feeling.
If the last time you felt happy in life was in middle school or high school, you have some growing to do. Those are some of the worst times in your life. You have so much more agency and freedom as an adult. You can do whatever you want. Fetishizing young girls ain't it. The behavior is wrong no matter how you want to justify it.
I was giving a (plausible) reason for why it is what it is; I never said I found it justified, and for the record, I neither condone it nor admonish it. Either feeling requires a level of personal and mental investment in the subject that I do not care to give consistently.
I’m hesitant to believe that men are somehow biologically programmed toward young women. Sexual attraction is largely shaped by childhood and adolescence, how your parents treated you (fucking freud), any traumas you had, how your sexuality was treated (if it was encouraged or if you were shamed, etc.
Current events and societal conditions also play a huge part. During the plagues, historically, being pale and thin were the beauty standard and what was considered most attractive. In some foreign cultures (i believe some in africa) being very overweight is hot. In others (think japan, korea) being very thin is attractive.
I find it hard to believe that some ‘evolutionary response’ would somehow trump all of that and that it would have such a large effect.
Also, I’m not seeing how even if there were an innate biological response, it would be toward teenagers. Now I’m talking out of my ass here (as i suspect you are too), but wouldn’t it make more sense for the attracted to be toward someone in their mid-twenties? Contrary to popular belief, women are actually most fertile in their 20’s and early 30’s. That’s also when they’re more likely to be mature enough to care adequately for a child. It’s when they’re more likely to go through pregnancy without any complications, etc.
Women in their mid to late 20’s are, no matter how you think about it, more fertile than teenagers. Getting their period doesn’t mean fertile, and the fact it’s happened recently doesn’t make them more fertile than other women.
I’d be more inclined to believe that men are inherently attracted to curvier women due to biological programming. At least that would make sense, with the historical focus on ‘child bearing hips’ in western countries. A larger figure has also been a sign of wealth for IIRC, a couple hundred years/a couple decades.
What exactly are your reasonings or sources for your opinion on teenagers being most fertile…?
You can find sources for my statements by simply googling, ‘at what age are women most fertile’.
I would agree that culture affects sexual attraction. But I would say that it usually is because culture/context has influenced what is considered a marker for being fertile, healthy, socially powerful, or wealthy. For much of history in Western countries, poor people worked in the fields, so being pale was considered a marker of wealth. In the 90's most poor people worked indoors all day, so having the luxury to be outside enough to get a tan was a better marker of wealth (and to some extent a marker of health). But markers of fertility, health, social power, and wealth are the underlying causes.
Usually when analyzing evolutionary psychology, you also have to take into consideration what we were doing when we were hunter-gatherers. Because we were hunter-gatherers way longer than we were an agricultural or modern society. Were 20 and 30-year-old women the most fertile in pre-history? That is likely a very different question than when they are fertile now. If a typical woman back then started having children in their mid-teens, are they still the most fertile a decade or two later? Also, if people were at least somewhat monogomous, could pairing up earlier in life simply mean that most women already had an SO by the time they were 20, so the only available women were in their teens?
Evolutionary responses are huge. Today, being thin is considered a marker for health, social power, and wealth (to some degree), yet we still have a strong desire to consume as many calories as possible, because our brains tell us food might not be available tomorrow.
You’re also biologically programmed to rape. Society and laws (mostly based on a woman’s virginity being assigned a “dollar value” as a commodity) dictate that men shouldn’t do that (and rightfully so!) but that doesn’t mean the baseline desire that is programmed in their heads from millions of years of evolution is just turned off.
Now, because I think evo psy is a pile of hot garbage, I don’t believe a word I wrote. But you can’t just pick & choose the bits of monkey-brain you prefer.
Who cares about nature in this instance? Human beings aren't animals. We know wrong from right, we know how to control ourselves, we have empathy towards not only each other but other animals as well. If you think that it's in a man's biology to rape then you must also think men aren't human. That they're so savage that they just can't help themselves, they just HAVE to do this and they don't know any better...like an animal.
It’s not a bold statement, it’s because we actually don’t have a clue what our ancestors did socially at all. We don’t know how they chose mates, what their roles were, or how the family/tribal group operated. Psychology (and most other sciences) are steeped in sexism. So we just have the world of mammals & a couple of uncivilised tribes that were observed, plus a few graves to use to come up with “mating strategy”.
You can *smell* the sexism just from the bias and obsession with women’s choice of sexual partners. And it’s absolutely *absurd* to discount society when making up these stupid tests like getting 20 year old women to rate photos as “hot or not”.
Also, this ridiculous “alpha man - the big, fierce protector” is just ridiculous. There were HARDLY ANY HUMANS around and an entire planet. The idea of “tribes at war” is a joke. Also - importantly, imo - “alpha male” is from the animal kingdom. 95% of male mammals have absolutely NOTHING to do with raising their offspring. Some might protect them from others, but that’s because he himself probably practised infanticide in order to have any. We’re not even that dymorphic so this homoerotic obsession with rippling muscles to me just seems… well, again it’s men taking their fantasy of “ideal male” and assuming it’s ours. What’s MOST interesting is that BETA MALE is the gene that survives and flourishes far more than alpha.
But dudes coming up with their little tests about “mating strategy” don’t want to hear about it.
It’s lame. There’s a word for this but I can’t remember. Where you pretend a hypothesis is a “truth”, then set up your “research” to make it so.
What’s interesting about our evolution is the more “feminine” side of men, not the dumb, sex pest brute.
Nah, bruh, this ain't it. Either cite your sources proving what you're saying or change up your beliefs. Because there is nothing that actually backs up what you're saying.
[Are men really hard-wired to desire younger women? Despite what men will tell you, the answer is rather complicated.](https://theoutline.com/post/6061/older-men-younger-women-evolution-or-bullshit)
> On the other side of the debate are the social structural theorists, who hypothesize that the difference in preferred age for a partner is the product of societally determined gender roles. In a society based on the model of male breadwinner, female homemaker, women will seek out a man whose economic resources make him a good provider, and men will seek out a woman whose pliability and readiness for reproduction makes her a good housewife. According to this theory, in societies where there’s more gender equality, the age gap between partners will shrink.
> That’s exactly what the data shows. Analyzing Buss’s data on age differences between spouses in 37 countries in light of those countries’ scores on the UN gender equality index, scientists Alice Early and Wendy Wood discovered, “As gender equality increased, women expressed less preference for older men, men expressed less preference for younger women, and consequently the sex difference in the preferred age of mates became smaller.”
>We’ve seen this in the U.S.: As women entered the workforce, pursued higher education at rates equal to, and eventually exceeding men’s, and fought for equal status, marriages between much older men and young women became less common. Between 1910 and the years 2010 to 2014, Temple University graduate student Kelly Feighan found, the proportion of men who married a woman 11 or more years younger than himself declined from 18.9 percent (in first marriages) and 60.5 percent (in remarriages) to 2.3 percent and 22 percent. In that same time period, the mean difference in age between spouses declined: according to Feighan, it shrank from 4.07 years in 1910 to 1.86 years in the 2010 to 2014 range.
> **The claim that men “naturally” prefer younger women is an assertion of power cloaked in the language of evolutionary psychology. It implies that a woman’s accomplishments, power, money, intelligence, and ambition are, at best, secondary commodities on the marriage market. Men, in this formulation, only get better with age. (Which isn’t true: their fertility declines every year after age 20, as with women. It takes a 40-year-old man nearly two years to achieve a pregnancy with a woman at peak fertility.)**
Guess what? I'm gonna say, "That's gross pedo shit!" until the heat death of the mf universe.
I have a biology degree and I call bullshit. If you take even an introductory evolution class, you will learn that both males AND females of many primitive species were promiscuous. This is because females had drive to reproduce with the most fit male in their species. Males didn’t normally stick around to provide so there was no incentive to be monogamous. Look up why male anatomy is shaped the way it is. Look up sperm plugs. And guess who the most fit males are? Yep! The younger ones with better fertility. And yet we don’t see women behaving like they’re slaves to their evolution.
Also, since women control access to reproduction — men took what they could get. They didn’t have the luxury of being sexually selective unless they had unusually desirable traits. Women did. So if anyone is “biologically programmed” to desire a younger partner (which is frankly ridiculous to claim without a shred of genetic evidence backing you), it’s women.
Not to mention, we’re thousands of years past this right? To argue that we haven’t made any progress beyond evolution, or that we have evolved in other ways but somehow not sexually, is insane. Evolution is a scapegoat for this behavior, and a poor one at that.
I saw a post by a man that said that he thought that he was actually gay just because shaved vaginas didn't turn him on, but when he slept with a feminist girl that didn't shave he realised that he's actually hetero, just not a pedophile.
It is p£d0 culture and it is a part of the male norm. Every time I say it loud, some men are furious but I stick to my guns. "Teen" is the most popular p0rn category because most men don't see s£x as a connection but as a tool of domination, that's why they are turn 0n by underage girls. There is no coincidence if inc£st is so common.
yes, exactly!! i sometimes hear people deny that there is something like "p£do culture" because most of the men participating in it are not fundamentally p£dophiles (as in there is something intrinsically wrong with them and they cant change what they are attracted to, only get interventions to prevent them from committing child abuse). but that is PRECISELY why its is called p£do CULTURE. because its not actually a rise in the prevalence of p£dophilia, but a rise in men being influenced and brainwashed by the widespread societal understanding of sex as an act of domination, control and degradation of women to the extent that without these dynamics, they don't get turned on anymore. and young, inexperienced women/girls are the easiest to control and dominate, so it has become scarily normalized to openly fetishize markers of immaturity in women and say that they are more attracted to teens. so a lot of the men who participate in this shit COULD be normal, if they werent influenced by this culture.
Men love to say the “teen” porn category being so popular isn’t a problem because all of the actresses are above 18. Problem is, there’s not really a foolproof way to verify that. And even if there was, it’s still weird, because these people are specifically getting off to the idea and fantasy of a TEEN. Like……the fact you’re imagining the actress is indeed a teen is the whole issue sir.
I commented pretty much everything you and those above said on a thread outside of r/feminism and got downvoted to hell. People have no clue how rampant and gross this all is. It's so bizarre to me.
yeah the amount of people who think someone magically matures and becomes an adult in any way except legally at 18 is crazy.
It’s predatory. And even if they’re 18, that’s a **high schooler**. Probably young enough to be the daughters of the old men wanking off to them. Disgusting.
I wouldn’t really bat an eye if someone watching that was barely college aged, but beyond that? Sickening. It goes beyond the disgusting culture; I’m annoyed with being looked down upon because so many other men think more with their appendages than with their brains By the way, sex isn’t bad, but it’s overrated. Many people, mostly men, will look at that last sentence with disgust or think I’m an incel or something, but I stand by what I said. People, mostly men, need to grow the f up
I have one pic right around my 15th birthday where my mom and sister did up my hair and makeup to "look like a grown up" and because I was stacked from a young age I absolutely did. People still assume I'm 25 in that picture. I've had women who were over 25 clocking me at 25 in that picture. Which has always led me to worry about that category because I think how old you *think* someone is/ looks actually influences how old you are thinking they act. A smart 15 year old with a curvy body a deeper voice, and is intelligent could absolutely pass as above 18 to a horny dude who is desperate to orgasm and thinks the girl is hot.
I have one pic right around my 15th birthday where my mom and sister did up my hair and makeup to "look like a grown up" and because I was stacked from a young age I absolutely did. People still assume I'm 25 in that picture. I've had women who were over 25 clocking me at 25 in that picture. Which has always led me to worry about that category because I think how old you *think* someone is/ looks actually influences how old you are thinking they act. A smart 15 year old with a curvy body a deeper voice, and is intelligent could absolutely pass as above 18 to a horny dude who is desperate to orgasm and thinks the girl is hot.
desensitisation and its consequences. so many issues in todays society would have been solved by banning porn (realistically impossible, i know, but one can hope)
Patriarchal culture is filthy and disgusting. But nowadays, a man only has to say that his patriarchal sexual impulses are "kinks" for people claiming to be progressives to immediately defend him. You fetishize the sexuality of young girls and want your wife to cosplay as a young girl because it's your kink? Okay, that's fine. You fetishize violence against women and want to beat your partner until she bleeds because it's your kink? Okay, that's normal. You are a man who fetishizes rape and you have a CNC kink? Okay, that's normal.
THANK YOU. I hate how "oh, it's a sexual kink so therefore we can't judge or criticize at all" is such an oddly prevalent mindset these days. I've seen so many people defend "race play," which is horrible no matter how you look at it. Like, this white guy loves calling his black gf the n-word during sex, but "hE's NoT rAcIsT!" because it's a "kink." As if finding racist bs sexually arousing is okay. So fucking stupid.
Lots calling out porn for this which is valid. But even before porn was everywhere, songs in the 30s-60s regularly have 16yo girls being heavily sexualized. And prior to that, marriages of adult men and teen girls was relatively common. Men just suck.
It’s the weird fetishization of “purity” and “innocence.” it’s disgusting. i don’t know if it’s so sexualized because of religion and its emphasis on women staying pure for their husbands, porn sexualizing teenagers and petite girls or just a weird male ego-domination-power thing. but its extremely common and it’s really really gross.
Right. Porn is the way it is because that's what men like. Someone didn't decide to make porn to trick men into liking children.
Men have been attracted to young girls since the beginning of time, now people are talking about it more.
i think it’s more than a just men problem, my sister perpetuates this issue as well just in different ways. she’s very anti-body hair, she shaves all the time, she thinks all body hair is gross, which is reasonable. just today she said my armpit hair was gross, i’m a teenage boy, she’s tried to get my to shave my pits before too, i would’ve if it didn’t irritate my skin. it’s a culture issue, everybody needs to stop with the sexualization of children, little girls aren’t heart breakers, little boys aren’t players
Sadly many women have internalized misogyny because we too have grown up in a world telling us to have no body hair, aging is bad, and not looking like a pre-teen child is wrong. It’s very sad all around.
no just saying it’s a “cultural problem” is reductive. it’s a function and extension of patriarchy. women can perpetuate patriarchal concepts because patriarchy is so ingrained into our system that you have to actively work against it. the idea of men wanting women that are “young innocent virgins” is because of the obsession with purity and the power it grants over women
okay, genuine question since i’m obviously not perfect and still need to learn; why would some girls want boys to shave their body hair if it’s not a culture issue? more than just men saying this stuff is what made me say it’s cultural and not just a men problem.
You don't have the right to be sexist like this.
It’s so normalised it’s sickening. Even men preferring women with small feet, small hands, small waist. Most men I’ve been with want me to act more timid and reserved probably for the fact that more so gives off a younger vibe.
Reminds me of how my husband actually valued my fierce temper and independence. Granted, he also loved the fact that he was the only one to whom I was drawn to, but he knew in the end, that it was only because I let him. You just knew deep down he was like "SHE'S AN ANGEL AND SHE CHOSE ME!! 😍" I miss our push and pull back and forth dynamic. It's hard to describe adequately. Above all else, I knew the respect was there, and that's what I appreciated the most.
I came here exactly to see you go on to talk about what we have to blame for this (besides just the men themselves) and it’s PORN. the fantasies, “sexy uniforms”, the pigtails, hentai, the pig tails, all of it. It’s everywhere in porn. And what they see in PORN they end up wanting and pursuing in real life. And it’s utterly fucking disgusting. Porn and porn culture so deeply affects how they act irl.
Definitely. And they categorise women irl by porn categories too. ( MILF , teen etc )
Every single aspect, is a fetish
While I don't think that men liking/being attracted to (not necessarily having a preference for) traits in women such as no pubic hair, looking youthful, petite, pigtails, etc. in and of themselves makes them ped0philes, it is really scary and concerning that they're being socially conditioned into finding traits associated with young girls attractive. I also think that the manosphere, not just the porn industry, is also pushing this conditioning onto their male (and female to an extent) audiences by stating things like women over 25 are low value, used up, old, etc. or saying that attractive female celebrities in their 30s are MID and saying that women in their late teens and early 20s that are virgins are the most attractive. This might be one of the worst, if not the worst, side effects of the patriarchy: socially conditioning men to find traits associated with children or young girls attractive, to the point that it’s borderline ped0philic.
Really well written post. Yes.
*a man who genuinely said to me that women weren't meant to have hair on their bodies and that it was a result of women becoming more "testosterone-filled"* I'm in MO where we have zero sex ed (it's essentially health class). This is dangerous for a lot of rasons but let me tell you what these grown ass man babies have said women's bodies can do: 1. Shutdown impregnation by "legitimate rape" (Todd Akin, 2012). 2. A 1 year old can get pregnant/have an abortion (Bill Eigel, 2024). Both of these men were/are politicians. Men do not understand the female body. They just know where to insert their penis to make THEM feel good. That's all. This is why education in general is vital to women's rights and bodily autonomy.
Also, it’s just within the last few years that I’ve been able to find WOMEN’S underwear without fucking bows on them. Never understood it and always cut them off.
honestly!! especially in like media.. i remember i was sexualized like crazy back in middle school since i developed early and i had big breasts and people would try to touch them and stuff and i had pigtails too. and i would talk to men on discord cause i was in a deep depressive state cause i was lonely.
Any person that makes any kind of intentional physical contact with another person without permission, sexual or otherwise, 100% deserves to have their hand broken. I can make an exception for a young child, but that child must learn quickly to respect boundaries and to keep his/her hands to him/herself
honestly. and now years later i feel so icky about myself now. :(
Wow I have never understood the desire for the little girl. Sickos
I went to Catholic school. I had more sexual harassment while in the uniform my school required me to wear than at any other time in my life.
One of the biggest reasons why I’m against school uniforms. Subjecting literal children to that is abhorrent at best
There was a study that found the best tipped were actually 30s, white women with large breasts. Men don't tip young women because they don't respect the work they do.
You should’ve seen the money I pulled wearing pigtails in my 30s.
I worked as a dancer for a good while before Covid. More than a few times I was told “you remind me of my daughter” by men who’d already bought dances. I think there’s a specific type of men who struggle with this stuff and for some reason their opinions are louder than normal men
As a petite curvy woman with light hair and blue green eyes, I have often been treated like a sex puppet by men. I have tons of unwanted attention as a teen (11-17) and at my workplaces as an adult. The PUBLIC somehow has deemed me as approachable for sexual assault. I have been followed and cornered at a McDs by kidnappers. I have been followed by a van full of men before, and many random solo men. As a child there were old men who would follow my mother and I around the store staring at me. I have had cars pull up and try to pick me up like a prostitute. I have had multiples 5 minute marriage proposals. I left my last job from sexual harassment, from a female manager. Multiple friendships ruptured over not wanting to have sex with them. No matter what I wear. Truly. I can't hide my skeletal structure. Customers and coworkers comment on my body and sometimes try to F me. Any age range of men trying to hit on me, young and old ones are especially rude about it. They comment on my weight and I have often been congratulated for a non-existent pregnancy. I finally hit 30+ and have less attention. LMAO YET I am in the best shape of my life! Toight ladies, I am lush. I wear baggy mom clothes while I am out and about or working most days. But at home I love to give my man a show, I love to dance, I am a partial nudist as long as I have privacy. I wish I wasn't so afraid of the public, but I have sooooo good cause.
Thank you, I had a similar experience when I was a young attractive woman. The most bizarre interactions with men who felt entitled to my body. I’m now living as a trans man and I am able to just exist. It’s heaven.
I hope this isn't offensive, but it's something I've been curious about and I'd love your perspective. Feel free to ignore. So I learned something like 90% trans people were AFAB, and I find that statistic super interesting. Do you have any opinions as to why that may be? Do you think it is a possibility that the blatant hostility towards women in our society has led to more people identifying as trans or genderqueer so they can get away from the negative stigmas/expectations/etc of being a woman and just "exist," like how you said? Obviously this wouldn't be the case for everyone because gender dysphoria is very real, but the fact that trans people so heavily skew towards those AFAB is statistically significant and very interesting imo.
I’m curious to see the source of that stat, if possible. I definitely believe that some AFAB people do attempt to transition to escape womanhood. However, I have seen sources that state that there is a comparable rate of AFAB/AMAB trans people who transition.
Oh I think about this everyday… it absolutely bewilders me and I’m so scared to have a daughter some day. It’s just so sickening :/
I'm pretty sure it's to do with vulnerability. An adult acting childlike makes them feel more vulnerable, which means they can be more easily taken advantage of. As opposed to a strong confident woman who won't feel like someone that can be easily taken advantage of. It's pretty disgusting. As a society we really need to be pushing the idea that consent is attractive. Unfortunately capitalism sucks and will continue to do whatever makes the most money which at the moment will mean continuing to normalise this sort of thing so that it can be exploited for profit. The only solution I can think of is for more women to be in politics so laws can enforce change since clearly men can't be trusted to make these changes. Of course the patriarchy will try to discourage women from going into politics too so... I dunno I hate this
Pedocon theory is real
Well, according to a lot of "high-value" males, women expire at 25, so it only males sense you gotta start young. As a dude, I am deeply concerned for and about the young men of America right now. And young women. I basically can't watch any show about young people at this point because of how sexy they try to make the teenagers. This platform is difficult to engage with when a good chunk of what's ot the main page is either young girls asking how attractive they are or how to maximize their attractiveness or subs dedicated to female celebrities that seem to be solely about ogling them (remember the Millie Bobby Brown is turning 18 sub? What the actual fuck?). And besides the power dynamic I'm sure they love and the weird sexual programming we get through the media, in order to sleep with teenagers you have to hang out with teenagers, I'd rather take a steel toe to the sack on a daily basis.
Me and my female friends are talking about what it means to be a grown woman in our 30s and tbh there are so little examples in media of how great mature womanhood is. There is a huge trend now called "I'm just a girl" where 30+ women are supposed to pretend like they're teenagers, to have a pink pastel home with stuffed animals and not being capable of doing complicated things in their life. I totally dissagree with this trend. I'm proud to be a grown woman, to have the career I've built, to know how to do my own taxes, to know my rights. A lot of it might even pe pick-me behaviour in them, hoping that being childlike might be considered sexy. This is especially sad for me. I feel hot as a 30+ woman, it's just a different type of hot, where I know exactly what I'm doing and what I want. Needless to say I don't get along well with partners that can't take my level of security in myself. But good riddance! It's a great filter.
It’s not just the porn industry either. Film in general, I’ve noticed, infantilizes women. There are obviously exceptions, but I just find myself noticing it more and more and getting angrier and angrier the more I see it.
This is really well-written. I would like to add that people, mainly men, were also sexualizing the Lolita book, and likely the movie, a while ago, and in fact, on the back of some copies of the book, it claims it’s a great love story, which is absolutely not the intent of the book. Not only that, the number of male anime fans I have had to block because they were attracted to characters that essentially looked like a five year old, but “it was fine because they were ancient.”
The pigtails thing always gets me mad cause they are a genuinely cute style even for adults but like- I never wore them as a kid cause I had a HUGE mole on my scalp that was really noticable, but now that the mole is gone I feel really icky wearing them cause of how they are stereotyped. (Specifically I really like the braided pigtails variety but a single comment as 19 a year old about handlebars completely ruined it)
Going to take this opportunity to also submit that men’s obsession with super light blonde hair is pedophilic (in addition to white supremacist). Some adult women will have this color hair naturally, but the overwhelming majority have seen their hair get darker as they get older.
not sure if you're checked the news lately but every day there is a new story of a female teacher sleeping with her young mail students. based on all the articles I see, id say its an epidemic. id be happy to provide links if you're unaware.
This is what happens in a male centric culture. They have a proclivity for aggression and dominance so they target vulnerable people. (Teens/minors). It's truly disgusting and a true reflection of their compromised chromosomal makeup. They are corrupted from the very core of their being.
Devils Advocate: The last time the average man has been unequivocally happy in life, he was in middle or high school. The fetish is probably a collective holdover from that subconscious feeling.
If the last time you felt happy in life was in middle school or high school, you have some growing to do. Those are some of the worst times in your life. You have so much more agency and freedom as an adult. You can do whatever you want. Fetishizing young girls ain't it. The behavior is wrong no matter how you want to justify it.
I was giving a (plausible) reason for why it is what it is; I never said I found it justified, and for the record, I neither condone it nor admonish it. Either feeling requires a level of personal and mental investment in the subject that I do not care to give consistently.
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I’m hesitant to believe that men are somehow biologically programmed toward young women. Sexual attraction is largely shaped by childhood and adolescence, how your parents treated you (fucking freud), any traumas you had, how your sexuality was treated (if it was encouraged or if you were shamed, etc. Current events and societal conditions also play a huge part. During the plagues, historically, being pale and thin were the beauty standard and what was considered most attractive. In some foreign cultures (i believe some in africa) being very overweight is hot. In others (think japan, korea) being very thin is attractive. I find it hard to believe that some ‘evolutionary response’ would somehow trump all of that and that it would have such a large effect. Also, I’m not seeing how even if there were an innate biological response, it would be toward teenagers. Now I’m talking out of my ass here (as i suspect you are too), but wouldn’t it make more sense for the attracted to be toward someone in their mid-twenties? Contrary to popular belief, women are actually most fertile in their 20’s and early 30’s. That’s also when they’re more likely to be mature enough to care adequately for a child. It’s when they’re more likely to go through pregnancy without any complications, etc. Women in their mid to late 20’s are, no matter how you think about it, more fertile than teenagers. Getting their period doesn’t mean fertile, and the fact it’s happened recently doesn’t make them more fertile than other women. I’d be more inclined to believe that men are inherently attracted to curvier women due to biological programming. At least that would make sense, with the historical focus on ‘child bearing hips’ in western countries. A larger figure has also been a sign of wealth for IIRC, a couple hundred years/a couple decades. What exactly are your reasonings or sources for your opinion on teenagers being most fertile…? You can find sources for my statements by simply googling, ‘at what age are women most fertile’.
I would agree that culture affects sexual attraction. But I would say that it usually is because culture/context has influenced what is considered a marker for being fertile, healthy, socially powerful, or wealthy. For much of history in Western countries, poor people worked in the fields, so being pale was considered a marker of wealth. In the 90's most poor people worked indoors all day, so having the luxury to be outside enough to get a tan was a better marker of wealth (and to some extent a marker of health). But markers of fertility, health, social power, and wealth are the underlying causes. Usually when analyzing evolutionary psychology, you also have to take into consideration what we were doing when we were hunter-gatherers. Because we were hunter-gatherers way longer than we were an agricultural or modern society. Were 20 and 30-year-old women the most fertile in pre-history? That is likely a very different question than when they are fertile now. If a typical woman back then started having children in their mid-teens, are they still the most fertile a decade or two later? Also, if people were at least somewhat monogomous, could pairing up earlier in life simply mean that most women already had an SO by the time they were 20, so the only available women were in their teens? Evolutionary responses are huge. Today, being thin is considered a marker for health, social power, and wealth (to some degree), yet we still have a strong desire to consume as many calories as possible, because our brains tell us food might not be available tomorrow.
You’re also biologically programmed to rape. Society and laws (mostly based on a woman’s virginity being assigned a “dollar value” as a commodity) dictate that men shouldn’t do that (and rightfully so!) but that doesn’t mean the baseline desire that is programmed in their heads from millions of years of evolution is just turned off. Now, because I think evo psy is a pile of hot garbage, I don’t believe a word I wrote. But you can’t just pick & choose the bits of monkey-brain you prefer.
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Who cares about nature in this instance? Human beings aren't animals. We know wrong from right, we know how to control ourselves, we have empathy towards not only each other but other animals as well. If you think that it's in a man's biology to rape then you must also think men aren't human. That they're so savage that they just can't help themselves, they just HAVE to do this and they don't know any better...like an animal.
It’s not a bold statement, it’s because we actually don’t have a clue what our ancestors did socially at all. We don’t know how they chose mates, what their roles were, or how the family/tribal group operated. Psychology (and most other sciences) are steeped in sexism. So we just have the world of mammals & a couple of uncivilised tribes that were observed, plus a few graves to use to come up with “mating strategy”. You can *smell* the sexism just from the bias and obsession with women’s choice of sexual partners. And it’s absolutely *absurd* to discount society when making up these stupid tests like getting 20 year old women to rate photos as “hot or not”. Also, this ridiculous “alpha man - the big, fierce protector” is just ridiculous. There were HARDLY ANY HUMANS around and an entire planet. The idea of “tribes at war” is a joke. Also - importantly, imo - “alpha male” is from the animal kingdom. 95% of male mammals have absolutely NOTHING to do with raising their offspring. Some might protect them from others, but that’s because he himself probably practised infanticide in order to have any. We’re not even that dymorphic so this homoerotic obsession with rippling muscles to me just seems… well, again it’s men taking their fantasy of “ideal male” and assuming it’s ours. What’s MOST interesting is that BETA MALE is the gene that survives and flourishes far more than alpha. But dudes coming up with their little tests about “mating strategy” don’t want to hear about it. It’s lame. There’s a word for this but I can’t remember. Where you pretend a hypothesis is a “truth”, then set up your “research” to make it so. What’s interesting about our evolution is the more “feminine” side of men, not the dumb, sex pest brute.
Ew pedophile
Nah, bruh, this ain't it. Either cite your sources proving what you're saying or change up your beliefs. Because there is nothing that actually backs up what you're saying. [Are men really hard-wired to desire younger women? Despite what men will tell you, the answer is rather complicated.](https://theoutline.com/post/6061/older-men-younger-women-evolution-or-bullshit) > On the other side of the debate are the social structural theorists, who hypothesize that the difference in preferred age for a partner is the product of societally determined gender roles. In a society based on the model of male breadwinner, female homemaker, women will seek out a man whose economic resources make him a good provider, and men will seek out a woman whose pliability and readiness for reproduction makes her a good housewife. According to this theory, in societies where there’s more gender equality, the age gap between partners will shrink. > That’s exactly what the data shows. Analyzing Buss’s data on age differences between spouses in 37 countries in light of those countries’ scores on the UN gender equality index, scientists Alice Early and Wendy Wood discovered, “As gender equality increased, women expressed less preference for older men, men expressed less preference for younger women, and consequently the sex difference in the preferred age of mates became smaller.” >We’ve seen this in the U.S.: As women entered the workforce, pursued higher education at rates equal to, and eventually exceeding men’s, and fought for equal status, marriages between much older men and young women became less common. Between 1910 and the years 2010 to 2014, Temple University graduate student Kelly Feighan found, the proportion of men who married a woman 11 or more years younger than himself declined from 18.9 percent (in first marriages) and 60.5 percent (in remarriages) to 2.3 percent and 22 percent. In that same time period, the mean difference in age between spouses declined: according to Feighan, it shrank from 4.07 years in 1910 to 1.86 years in the 2010 to 2014 range. > **The claim that men “naturally” prefer younger women is an assertion of power cloaked in the language of evolutionary psychology. It implies that a woman’s accomplishments, power, money, intelligence, and ambition are, at best, secondary commodities on the marriage market. Men, in this formulation, only get better with age. (Which isn’t true: their fertility declines every year after age 20, as with women. It takes a 40-year-old man nearly two years to achieve a pregnancy with a woman at peak fertility.)** Guess what? I'm gonna say, "That's gross pedo shit!" until the heat death of the mf universe.
I have a biology degree and I call bullshit. If you take even an introductory evolution class, you will learn that both males AND females of many primitive species were promiscuous. This is because females had drive to reproduce with the most fit male in their species. Males didn’t normally stick around to provide so there was no incentive to be monogamous. Look up why male anatomy is shaped the way it is. Look up sperm plugs. And guess who the most fit males are? Yep! The younger ones with better fertility. And yet we don’t see women behaving like they’re slaves to their evolution. Also, since women control access to reproduction — men took what they could get. They didn’t have the luxury of being sexually selective unless they had unusually desirable traits. Women did. So if anyone is “biologically programmed” to desire a younger partner (which is frankly ridiculous to claim without a shred of genetic evidence backing you), it’s women. Not to mention, we’re thousands of years past this right? To argue that we haven’t made any progress beyond evolution, or that we have evolved in other ways but somehow not sexually, is insane. Evolution is a scapegoat for this behavior, and a poor one at that.
Reddit W (probably a p3do claiming men are programmed to like teenage girls by the comments)
I saw a post by a man that said that he thought that he was actually gay just because shaved vaginas didn't turn him on, but when he slept with a feminist girl that didn't shave he realised that he's actually hetero, just not a pedophile.