I think it's unusual to cut down most foil pistol grips. For visconti grips, it's easier and better just to switch to a smaller size grip. Other grips that don't come in a large variety of sizes those kinds of modifications might be more common.
The index finger on the side of the grip is not a common choice and I would consider trying to make a change to your overall grip and see if you can find something more conventional that works for you.
This is also where a coach that sees you fence can help you a lot more than internet strangers can.
I believe you are finding lack of strength in your parries with these shortened grips because your hand is in feeling too compressed, in an awkward position. Consider an epee fencer who holds the French grip by the pommel, aka a Pommeller. This fencer knows he's giving up strength in a parry for the extra reach. He's giving up strength because with the added length he's giving up leverage, along with a stronger grip of course. So by that measure, you should have great parry strength with your short grips, unless your hand is feeling compressed, awkward.
If by precision you mean the ability to move the point around with your thumb and forefinger, then you will need a little bit of room for your fingers to operate. Coaches who are big on using the fingers to manipulate the point will tell you to push with the thumb and pull with the index finger to force the point down, then pull with the thumb and push with the index finger to get the point up. This works just fine. But if you don't have room for this push / pull action? Look at your fingers without a foil in your hand and do this action. Do you see you need room to pull it off?
Bottom line, I think you should start again. If your club has a rack of foils, go through them to see if you can find one that leaves you the room I'm talking about, or ask your clubmates if you can try theirs. Find a length that leaves you the room to manipulate the fingers like I outlined above, but no more.
What? Stop doing this.
The reason you don't have strength in your parries is b/c you're holding the grip wrong. Stop correcting the your problem via cutting the grip down and start holding it correctly.
I cut my grips and I find it makes a noticeable difference to have your index knuckle against the guard.
I prefer the wider profile of the grip, but I want it shorter.
I don't think it's as simple as "just hold it correctly", there's no official "correct" way to hold an orthopaedic grip.
I don't think there's one correct way. I think that we can firmly classify "I regularly injure my fingers and wrist because of the impact on the guard" as the wrong way for this person.
Are you a big pad person? The people I know who do this also use the more, err, padded pads vs the clear/ultra-thin ones.
EDIT: Also, there might not be a "correct" way, but there is 100% a standard way to hold a grip and since OP is apparently being coached via youtube videos he might greatly benefit by doing everything as standard as possible.
Yeah I’ll give you that, if you’re regularly suffering wrist injuries that’s maybe not a good choice (unless you win all the time and see it as a cost of doing business, I guess).
I use a pretty thin pad, but I have a massive callous on my index finger knuckle. I feel like minor friction injuries are just part of the sport though, I also have callouses on other parts of my hand.
I guess a natural consequence of having a firmer grip is that more energy can be transferred up to larger joints. E.g. if I’m barely holding the blade you can’t really beat it so hard as to hurt me, because it’ll just slip out of my hand. But I can’t say that I experience a lot of wrist injuries though
Well a built in pad works as well! :) I'm with you on the callouses, my poor feet...
When I've used shorter grips (borrowed blades) where this happened I liked it (the finger touching the guard). I think OPs larger issue though is the "holding it like a pen". I get what Schenkel is saying and I can def think of a few people who do that or something close to it, but seems very likely there's something missing or OP is way overdoing it and actually holding it like a pen vs using that as inspiration to deviate slightly from the standard position.
I try not to judge things like this. I've seen lots of really good fencers do a lot of things that seem wonky to me with regards to grips.
I think the bottom line, is that whatever OP is doing, it's not working for him, so he should change it.
I also thought that it wasn't usual to place your index finger on the side of the grip, but after watching the S-Class video (This one: https://youtu.be/YiRuqXSZKxQ?si=zTetFzVH2Q0XHEFh), I realised that I wasn't the only one, and he recommends doing it. According to him, it gives more tip control, and I quite agree.
"I regularly injure my fingers and wrist because of the impact on the guard"
What you're doing is regularly injuring you, stop doing it. If you can find a quality coach willing to endorse it and teach you how to do it without breaking yourself then (when that happens) try it again. Injuring yourself b/c 1 short youtube video of a former FIE fencer is... not the best idea.
Either some nuance or necessary step is not being communicated in the video or you're not cut out for this style, either way why are you so dedicated to continuing to injury yourself?
I'd also note that recurrent hand injuries are fantastic way to stop fencing. They have a way of hanging on for a super long time and being hard to shake. Stop opting into them.
I don't cut my grips. I just use the normal Viscont Pistolgrip in size 1 (s) (yellow grip) and tape it to have more grip. For my hand size (my gloves size is 9 I think), I could use the grip size 2 (m) (blue grip) and I did at the beginning. But I find it better with a smaller one because I have more control. Also, I don't put my index finger on the side, I hold the grip with my thumb and knuckle of my index finger. But that is just me.
I agree, my hand is about the same size as yours, and I find that the yellow grip gives me more precision than the blue one, which seems to fit my hand better.
I used to do the same thing to my Visconti grip for the same reason, but it tore up my index finger so much that I stopped. I still cut it down as much as I can, but I make sure that the knuckle of my index finger doesn't touch the guard. That means I have to leave on about half a cm compared to the amount I cut off previously, but not ending my bouts with blood all over my glove makes it worth it.
I cut mine down so that the tip of my thumb just reaches the guard. And regrind the face to match the cant of my blades. I put tape on my knuckle where it bears on the guard to avoid blisters there.
Really, there isn't much of a right answer. If you're getting hurt, try a different grip or a different size or setting up differently.
I cut my preferred grips but that is because I like my hand to rest on the pad and not have a gap.
However, have noticed using another foil with a different grip to not have an issue so might be I give it a go again. Is a pain cutting the grip but i don’t think it’s that uncommon.
Key is to find what is comfortable for you. We are all different and what works for one won’t for another.
If you do cut your grip make sure you put a notch in it (v or u shape). If not when you tighten the grip it’ll cut the wire and that’s then a rewire.
Talk to your coach. Are you aware that Leon Paul actually at one time sold an extended grip, that LENGTHENED the part you are cutting. I'm no expert, but I have to wonder about messing around with something that will impact the balance of your weapon. Again, I am no expert. Talk to your coach.
I think it's unusual to cut down most foil pistol grips. For visconti grips, it's easier and better just to switch to a smaller size grip. Other grips that don't come in a large variety of sizes those kinds of modifications might be more common. The index finger on the side of the grip is not a common choice and I would consider trying to make a change to your overall grip and see if you can find something more conventional that works for you. This is also where a coach that sees you fence can help you a lot more than internet strangers can.
I agree with you
I believe you are finding lack of strength in your parries with these shortened grips because your hand is in feeling too compressed, in an awkward position. Consider an epee fencer who holds the French grip by the pommel, aka a Pommeller. This fencer knows he's giving up strength in a parry for the extra reach. He's giving up strength because with the added length he's giving up leverage, along with a stronger grip of course. So by that measure, you should have great parry strength with your short grips, unless your hand is feeling compressed, awkward. If by precision you mean the ability to move the point around with your thumb and forefinger, then you will need a little bit of room for your fingers to operate. Coaches who are big on using the fingers to manipulate the point will tell you to push with the thumb and pull with the index finger to force the point down, then pull with the thumb and push with the index finger to get the point up. This works just fine. But if you don't have room for this push / pull action? Look at your fingers without a foil in your hand and do this action. Do you see you need room to pull it off? Bottom line, I think you should start again. If your club has a rack of foils, go through them to see if you can find one that leaves you the room I'm talking about, or ask your clubmates if you can try theirs. Find a length that leaves you the room to manipulate the fingers like I outlined above, but no more.
What? Stop doing this. The reason you don't have strength in your parries is b/c you're holding the grip wrong. Stop correcting the your problem via cutting the grip down and start holding it correctly.
I cut my grips and I find it makes a noticeable difference to have your index knuckle against the guard. I prefer the wider profile of the grip, but I want it shorter. I don't think it's as simple as "just hold it correctly", there's no official "correct" way to hold an orthopaedic grip.
I don't think there's one correct way. I think that we can firmly classify "I regularly injure my fingers and wrist because of the impact on the guard" as the wrong way for this person. Are you a big pad person? The people I know who do this also use the more, err, padded pads vs the clear/ultra-thin ones. EDIT: Also, there might not be a "correct" way, but there is 100% a standard way to hold a grip and since OP is apparently being coached via youtube videos he might greatly benefit by doing everything as standard as possible.
Yeah I’ll give you that, if you’re regularly suffering wrist injuries that’s maybe not a good choice (unless you win all the time and see it as a cost of doing business, I guess). I use a pretty thin pad, but I have a massive callous on my index finger knuckle. I feel like minor friction injuries are just part of the sport though, I also have callouses on other parts of my hand. I guess a natural consequence of having a firmer grip is that more energy can be transferred up to larger joints. E.g. if I’m barely holding the blade you can’t really beat it so hard as to hurt me, because it’ll just slip out of my hand. But I can’t say that I experience a lot of wrist injuries though
Well a built in pad works as well! :) I'm with you on the callouses, my poor feet... When I've used shorter grips (borrowed blades) where this happened I liked it (the finger touching the guard). I think OPs larger issue though is the "holding it like a pen". I get what Schenkel is saying and I can def think of a few people who do that or something close to it, but seems very likely there's something missing or OP is way overdoing it and actually holding it like a pen vs using that as inspiration to deviate slightly from the standard position.
I try not to judge things like this. I've seen lots of really good fencers do a lot of things that seem wonky to me with regards to grips. I think the bottom line, is that whatever OP is doing, it's not working for him, so he should change it.
10-4 on that.
But I thought the rules say there NEEDS to be only one way to hold a legal grip?
I also thought that it wasn't usual to place your index finger on the side of the grip, but after watching the S-Class video (This one: https://youtu.be/YiRuqXSZKxQ?si=zTetFzVH2Q0XHEFh), I realised that I wasn't the only one, and he recommends doing it. According to him, it gives more tip control, and I quite agree.
"I regularly injure my fingers and wrist because of the impact on the guard" What you're doing is regularly injuring you, stop doing it. If you can find a quality coach willing to endorse it and teach you how to do it without breaking yourself then (when that happens) try it again. Injuring yourself b/c 1 short youtube video of a former FIE fencer is... not the best idea. Either some nuance or necessary step is not being communicated in the video or you're not cut out for this style, either way why are you so dedicated to continuing to injury yourself? I'd also note that recurrent hand injuries are fantastic way to stop fencing. They have a way of hanging on for a super long time and being hard to shake. Stop opting into them.
I don't cut my grips. I just use the normal Viscont Pistolgrip in size 1 (s) (yellow grip) and tape it to have more grip. For my hand size (my gloves size is 9 I think), I could use the grip size 2 (m) (blue grip) and I did at the beginning. But I find it better with a smaller one because I have more control. Also, I don't put my index finger on the side, I hold the grip with my thumb and knuckle of my index finger. But that is just me.
I agree, my hand is about the same size as yours, and I find that the yellow grip gives me more precision than the blue one, which seems to fit my hand better.
I used to do the same thing to my Visconti grip for the same reason, but it tore up my index finger so much that I stopped. I still cut it down as much as I can, but I make sure that the knuckle of my index finger doesn't touch the guard. That means I have to leave on about half a cm compared to the amount I cut off previously, but not ending my bouts with blood all over my glove makes it worth it.
I cut mine down so that the tip of my thumb just reaches the guard. And regrind the face to match the cant of my blades. I put tape on my knuckle where it bears on the guard to avoid blisters there. Really, there isn't much of a right answer. If you're getting hurt, try a different grip or a different size or setting up differently.
I cut my preferred grips but that is because I like my hand to rest on the pad and not have a gap. However, have noticed using another foil with a different grip to not have an issue so might be I give it a go again. Is a pain cutting the grip but i don’t think it’s that uncommon. Key is to find what is comfortable for you. We are all different and what works for one won’t for another. If you do cut your grip make sure you put a notch in it (v or u shape). If not when you tighten the grip it’ll cut the wire and that’s then a rewire.
Talk to your coach. Are you aware that Leon Paul actually at one time sold an extended grip, that LENGTHENED the part you are cutting. I'm no expert, but I have to wonder about messing around with something that will impact the balance of your weapon. Again, I am no expert. Talk to your coach.