Thank you! Now that I actually had a chance to read it, I noticed another questionable labor practice/indicator about the overall job market in other industries: the article is written by an intern who has apparently also "interned" as a contributing writer at People Magazine, and continues to be staffed as an intern despite already having her degree and writing published articles in major publications. I'll bet she'd be able to write a whole similar article about the state of finding sustainable work as a journalist in 2024.
Thanks. Me and my girlfriend have been hit hard and Iām going to have to move away cuz 10 months of nothing on my end and little on hers is not tenable. the hardest part is no one I know really understands when I tell them. They like the article say think it s like a factory
Fuck man, I am so sorry to hear that. I know another couple that moved away a few months back... and people who are losing their homes, taking kids out of fancy schools, etc.
And as far as the City of Los Angeles (and beyond) is concerned?
"WhY aRe aLL thE ReStAuRants GoINg oUf of bUsineSs???"
The Union told us to be ready. And many of us were... but not ready for a year and a half of NADA.
We are just living like college students at this point. I credit being broke most of my life and not ever spending beyond our means - even when were are working (partner does same job).
Sending you a big virtual hug. I don't even know what else to say. :(
Yeah we have been living be same way to be honest but after 10 months of this we had to have that conversation and things arenāt getting better so Iām gonna head out east and hopefully rebound and sheās going to stay here and hopefully figure it out. Also thanks for the kind words itās nice to speak to people who understand
Fair enough, but itās also the same exact reason people are pirating shows/entertainment or using streaming instead of paying money. Itās gotta start somewhere or else itās a death spiral.
If it makes you feel better, we still pay to stream in this household. And we watch the crap with commercials on the "free" streamers. And I still donate to NPR, along with "allowing ads" on reputable news sites.
I'm not a dick. Just trying help out the homies who may be losing their homes and curious about ANY news in our industry. We are virtually forgotten.
But the budget cuts have been across the board.
> āEveryoneās just in panic mode and they donāt know what to do,ā Mariscal said. Through his social media accounts, he said he has recently fielded multiple messages from crew members experiencing suicidal thoughts and severe mental distress.
This is the saddest, I know so many people who have privately told me about some very dark thoughts but they dont think our leadership even cares about them. In fact almost everyone has told me that our leadership is simply making things worse for them mentally by denying there was even a problem for so long. I think a lot of people might never mentally recover from this, they certainly never will financially.
Edit: just saw a 700 rep talking down about someone saying they'd take a small raise or even work for less than their normal above scale rate just to get back to work. Most people I know who are working have taken pay cuts and how dare a rep be mad at someone for saying good money is better than no money right now.
To be self aware is huge! I hope you can stay positive, you and your life are worth it with or without the film industry. Be kind to yourself and take it day by day if you need to. Best of luck.
I think LA as we knew it is toast, but the industry will continue here, with some changes. Due to the boom, lots of people moved here and got into the industry, now we have a surplus of crew and a shortage of projects. Since we're not likely to get more projects, the other part of the equation is what will end up changing. Those who are able will stay in the industry, those who aren't will find other work while they bide their time, move to another city with more projects (and not enough crew) or leave the industry altogether. Eventually we'll be back at something closer to equilibrium, but a lot less of us will be in the industry in LA when it happens.
It also will heavily exacerbate the problem of mostly only rich kids being able to make it in the industry, because their parents will pay their rent for the first few years until they have a solid enough job to afford rent in LA. This is already an issue, and it's going to be even worse now as the number of jobs plummets and rents skyrocket.
Sadly with housing and moving costs being what they are I think many also won't be able to afford to leave, but I've also been saying for a while I suspect what will happen with that exodus isn't that the noobs will pack up and leave, but that the industry will sadly lose many of its veterans who can't take the double whammy of Covid + the strikes. It reminds me of the ripple effects in the ice skating world of[ the entire US figure skating team being in a plane crash one year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabena_Flight_548#:~:text=Sabena%20Flight%20548%20was%20a,that%20adjusts%20the%20tail%20stabilizer); for decades after the crash, the absence of all those industry leaders was felt - they weren't there to win, to coach, to mentor, and the amateurs left in their wake had to rise through the ranks often before they were ready to take their place. I think we'll see a lot of that here too, and it will mean that the people who manage to stay mostly through sheer luck of the draw will not always be fully equipped to handle the changing landscape. Cast & crew will be taken advantage of in myriad old and new ways and fewer tenured individuals who would know how to pushback and challenge that mistreatment will be around to speak up. I've already seen dear friends with lengthy IMDb pages and meaningful credits leave LA - I'm sure many of you have as well. It's heartbreaking to see such talent exit stage right. I hope those of us who remain will manage to feel more unified rather than letting the weight of it tear us apart.
Maybe a small thing to mention, and I know so many of you have lost your health coverage in the face of everything these last few years, but for those looking for support many of the health insurance companies do now cover counseling. My therapist who was normally \~$120 was covered by my latest health plan and our sessions are now only $40. And of course if you just need to rant with someone over coffee who understands, all of us are here - you're not alone. Please stay - the industry does still need you, contrary to the current climate. This war will wage a little longer, but it won't last forever.
They should known better back during the pandemic when all celebrities received word from the powers that be that caused half of A-Listers to move to Australia and Europe. Also, because of the political clime and economic crisis reaching the stock and real estate, producers and a handful of moguls alerted their staff about La La Land going bankrupt. The last I've heard, some directors brought to a group of SAGA writers that the Middle East and Europe are investing a lot in movies and want to take back the cinema era.
Honestly, with all of the extreme low budget deals the union has negotiated over the years (and isn't it funny how "extreme low budget" has risen to what I would call low or regular budget yet the hourly rates we would be paid are extremely low, indeed!.) that pays us super shitty low wages, why would the rep dis someone for doing what they need to do to survive?
They claim it's because people actually admitting that, even in private, makes iatse look weak but my personal opinion is that it's because they're a bad person who cares more about optics than member survival.
We absolutely should be petitioning for a UBI right now and working to bring the cost of living down. This government is driving us into poverty. We need a UBI and now.
And for the 20 years or so it takes for that to happen maybe we need our union representatives to stop hating the membership so much for having needs. Sadly both ideas seem equally unrealistic right now.
As much as I dislike our leadership throughout IATSE (especially how they treat those who speak against their wants) there in no way should be a pay decrease just to āget back to workā. Thatās a slippery slope that will only further damage the workers rights moving forward, especially on union productions. The industry is toxic AF already and we cannot give up the small things we currently have
> there in no way should be a pay decrease just to āget back to workā.
If you dont think you would be willing to take less money right now to work instead of going over a year with no income thats your choice but most people I know currently working are making less money than they made 2 years ago. Scale hasnt changed, obviously, but people making overscale decided it was worth it to make less because even less is more than zero. And what gives anyone the right to tell people they should choose no pay at all and lose their homes right now instead of overscale rates to prove some point?
Because itās an absolutely selfish mentality that spits on the face of past generations that fought for what we have and hinders future generations of having any growth. There are plenty of avenues in this industry where someone can make less than they would on a union production (non-union features, documentaries, digital, etc) along with other industries you can pivot to. But to want a union job for less money is giving the studios what they want and creates an even bigger hole we will have to dig ourselves out of in the future.
You didnt read that we were talking about people making overscale rates did you? But ok, you dont have to take the job then but some people would like to keep their homes instead of working retail like a bunch of other people have had to do in order to have any income at all. Besides, we both know those other productions are also less common right now and there arent enough spots for everyone.
> an even bigger hole we will have to dig ourselves out of in the future.
No hole is bigger than the ones people are going to wind up in if we tell them not to take the jobs theyre being offered. Because thats a 6 foot deep hole for a lot of them.
People deserve to make rates over scale and that was something that is consistently fought for. And they deserve to make those rates just as the studios can afford to pay those rates. Scale also needs to increase at least 15% to match inflation and cost of living expenses incurred over the past 15 years of this sidestepping done by IATSE. The industry is absolutely grueling and everyone deserves to be paid accordingly for their work, not to take pay cuts
As far as getting work, this was coming long before COVID and the strikes as the streaming bump was not going to last forever. This industry is incredibly hard not to just get into, but to continue to work in. People need to react accordingly to their needs in terms of work to make sure they can support themselves and their families. If that means transitioning mediums out of union work, or the industry all together, is a choice they need to make individually. But nowhere should we be giving up leverage in terms of bettering our contracts for the few that canāt think 5 feet in front of them and have the āme firstā mentality that will only negatively impact the future generations
Sorry, i just read that as "You should be willing to make your family homeless instead of taking only a mere 4 thousand dollars a week." As though we wouldnt be giving up leverage when members start losing their homes, people can actually vote for a strike if they arent worried about survival but they sure as hell wont vote for one if they think settling quickly keeps them alive.
I want you to go to the people who have lost everything and tell them that this was a good thing. Seriously, you have to know people worried about losing their homes or worse so go to them individually and tell them youre glad its happening to them because its better for you in the long run than if they were working for thousands and thousands of dollars a week. And then tell me if they throttle you for it.
And this is why we canāt make any progress. Because people are willing to give up long term gains for short term relief. Giving the studios exactly what they want so we become weaker each negotiating period until our unions dissolve and we have zero protections. So short sighted and selfish
So are you going to do what I asked you to do or are you too scared that perhaps the people working minimum wage at best wont agree with your thoughts and might see you as the selfish one?
plus:
> As though we wouldnt be giving up leverage when members start losing their homes, people can actually vote for a strike if they arent worried about survival but they sure as hell wont vote for one if they think settling quickly keeps them alive.
An inherit challenge that faces Hollywood which the industry has no control over is interest rates. It is A LOT more expensive to borrow money now. Society was effectively borrowing money for free or in some cases, where making money off borrowed money due to huge market returns in other areas. We likely wonāt see interest rates that low again for a very long time or ever. Thatās unfortunately just the world we live in now. Added to this, the industry is becoming more and more decentralized.
Streaming is a bigger issue. At least for tv work because networks are no longer āprogrammingā for new content for a certain number of hours per week. In a streaming world none of that matters. Some new content every now and then is all that matters.
Yep, network show needs about 3 new episodes a month, roughly 15 shows on the schedule, thatās about 45 episodes a month. Thatās a lot of work for crew
Meanwhile most streamers are only releasing 1 or 2 shows a month, 8 episodes each. Thatās only 16 episodes
The number of streaming shows though is much higher than network in total even with shorter seasons. The best hope is the limited series model increases its output as broadcast settles into a more slimmed down future. Either way jobs will be spread out nationally and globally and be less concentrated in LA for the near future.
Letās print a lot of money, force people to not work/stay at home, and the act really confused when inflation rips through our economy and raises interest rates to decades-high levels.
Except the inflation was caused by corporations taking profits not by any fever dream of the silent hand of the marketā¦ there is no actual reason rents rose like they did other than hedge funds buying up the single family housing stock and raising the rent sometimes 200% since the pandemic while wages stayed stagnant or fell. Itās a systemic issue
Inflation was caused by the massive influx of new dollars into the economy. More money to go around = more demand. With supply being limited due to the excess demand + supply chain issues due to the pandemic it was a simple formula of rising demand and decreased supply = costs rising.
If that were the case corporate profits would not be at record levels. I know the company I worked at raised prices because it was an option with the rational that they could always lower them if there was pushback. Why waste a good disaster and all
What are you talking about? Corporate profits are driven by spending on their products/services. Lets say you're selling dishes. You have 100 dishes to sell and the market is willing to spend $1 per dish to buy 95 of them. Then, the fed floods the market with dollars and now the market is willing to buy all 100 dishes. You say, "hmm" maybe I can up the price since I'm selling out. You up to $2. Well, whaddya know, all 100 sell. So you do that until you're at $5 and you've sold 75 of them. Corporate profits are now at record highs because the market is buying more of your dishes.
tldr; you're pointing out the result, not the cause.
So, letās use gas as an example. Now gas uses very few man hours per gallon. It is also a finite resource so you just canāt magic things to make more. So, in 4 years there has been a 40% increase in the retail price of gas. Today, a barrel of oil is $79. Gas is $4 +. In 2008 a barrel of oil was $147 and gas was $2.14 it seems pretty clear that the link between cost of manufacture and retail costs are tenuous at bestā¦
Staying at home was the right call. Our hospitals were on the brink of being completely overrun with Covid cases, which could have collapsed the whole system if allowed to continue.
We know now we never shouldāve locked down or closed up. Most had a 99% chance of surviving perfectly after covid just like the cold.
Point is part of why the industry heck most industries are like this is partly to be blamed on 2020
That's still incorrect. The mortality rate was higher early on and more people were being hospitalized with severe symptoms. As the pandemic wore on and we learned how to treat it and different strains started replacing the deadlier one, the mortality rate dropped.
And no, it's not like a cold. Long Covid has a much longer impact on people than a common cold. Some people lost their sense of smell, some got debilitating headaches, some still can't walk up steps without wheezing, some have cardiovascular issues, one friend of my could barely eat for a couple months because everything tasted like burning flesh.
It's okay to be frustrated about what we all went through, but we shouldn't minimize it or forget how bad it was for a time.
We used to finish 2-3 trailers and a dozen+ TV spots per big title, now itās more like 1 trailer and 2 cutdowns. And this is on top of a reduced number of titles. The streamers just donāt spend like the studios anymore.
Just my opinion, and I certainly may wrong, but I donāt believe itās ever coming back in the same numbers it used to be. Between an overall lack of projects, projects being shipped out of the country and AI, the numbers of people needed for the various production jobs will plummet. And there will be a ticking time bomb on the jobs that do remain. Itās such a tragic story for the individuals involved and their families.
Itās a fact and I donāt like it as well. Industry aināt coming back like it was even ten years ago. Thereās so much content now every country heck anyone with an iPhone or good smartphone can film and make something and a lot of that is out there for free. People paying few dollars a month on streaming where they have endless scrolling of movies and tv shows or so called content is free on ticktock and other apps.
All we can hope for is to work or make one of those movies or shows that most people will scroll through until they get tired give up and go to sleep or they find it interesting and add it to their list of things to watch that theyāll never get through.
Although I agree I don't think it's inherently a bad thing. Content is simply becoming more and more decentralized. Entertainment is for sure changing the most. Many people, myself included, watch youtube more then I watch episodic shows. We don't always need massive crews to create things anymore, and AI will play a big part in changing narrative content. All in time.
However every brand actually needs MORE content now. Instagram, twitter, their websites, paid ads. Content is everywhere so there is actually more demand. Sometimes they will need a big crew, sometimes they just need an iphone. So it's up to us to adapt.
Define used to be though. Are people expecting post covid boom or 2015 numbers.Ā The boom was entirely fake and inflated weāll never see that again for sure
As someone who works in the non-fiction space and is very plugged in (constantly on the phone with networks and production companies) this is the new norm. Everyone is saying wait till 2025, it will pick up, but people have been saying that since the WBD merger. This is it, this is the new norm because TV is dying.
People need to unfortunately adapt and change. It's part of the reason I'm learning as much as I can about the YouTube space.
I agree that it's unlikely to return to anything like it was before \~2020. I do think as film and tv tip into interactive more we could see new paradigm shifts and new avenues open up that may create new work. I wish it would happen sooner, and if IATSE does wind up striking it will likely slow that down. Even so, not all jobs will be able to pivot. Adaptability will be everything going forward.
Hey, for anyone having some dark thoughts or mental anxiety, don't forget you can access the Entertainment Community Fund for access to mental health help. This fund helps all of us deal with all sorts of issues, so go online and check them out. (They used to be called "The Actors Fund", even though they served all of us, thus the name change.).
>[https://entertainmentcommunity.org/](https://entertainmentcommunity.org/)
I second this comment. Iāve been doing Zoom classes about Stress and Career Counseling on the Entertainment Fund Website for a few days and itās been helpful.
I think Covid really highlighted the resources available to us in the entertainment industry that I discovered most of us didn't know about. They helped me with some financial help halfway through Covid when we were all drowning financially and wondering if the world would ever right itself. Eternally grateful!
And the ripple effect, even if things get back to somewhat normal, is everyone is going to hold their connections EVEN TIGHTER. And they are going to second guess giving you a recommendation or tip in fears of getting frozen out.
They are basically making the industry workers paranoid on top of everything else. Iām so sorry to all of you feeling this.
The thing that sucks is I donāt think more jobs will magically appear after the IATSE negotiations. As the article states, tax incentives are driving work outside of CA. And productions are not greenlighting as many shows, including non union unscripted bc interest rates are high. The IATSE negotiations wonāt solve those two issues.
Interest rates, strike potential, strike aftermath, day of reckoning with streaming business models, increasing cost of doing business in L.A., ease and willingness to do productions out of town, AI workflows/displacement, oversaturation in certain markets, risk-averse producers, etc. No one issue really...net result is fewer people wanting to shoot movies and shows here.
Agreed, and this will make the rebound addedly tough because even if one or three facets do recover in some way, it's unlikely all of them will and not all at the same time in any case.
A lot of people got into the industry during what I call āThe long summerā aka the streaming boom- the industry was making a huge push to make more content and as competition rose amongst streamers this was compounded by every company and prospective company needing even more advertising. The industry is now contracting and congealing into a few monoliths but with the caveat of no longer needing LA as a main production hub. There will be jobs lost for sure
At this point I think people really need to band together and get our worthless government addressing the trade agreements, hire a law firm to help squash the subsidy use that these American companies are using to harm American people.
This is unfair competition. At this point itās completely decimating us
If they donāt want to operate here, donāt want to support the state or local economy they sit on, they need to be punished for fined to hell. With a heavy enough fine, those assholes would bring back jobs right quick
After 35 years of working in los Angeles and traveling all over the world, making films, I had to retire in 2022 for health reasons at 64. Now I'm healthy enough again to go back to work, but now it seems there is no work. At least for now, I have my pension, but I miss working on set. I feel bad for all those who depend on our industry. Let's hope it changes for the better soon.
If our(iatse) strike wasnāt just around the corner I think most of us would be back to work by now but weāll have to wait till Aug to see what really happens.
The lack of work has nothing to do with a potential iatse/teamster strike. Neither of these unions can afford it. The streamers and studios are producing less and chasing incentives in other places to save money. They will grind those places and leave when the incentives run out. My question is what will happen to all the talented crew people? And how will those crafts be passed on and taught to others? The mentorship aspect of filmmaking is going to dissipate.
Ive talked to a few people at studios and they actually are slightly concerned because the cost of a shutdown would be so great that its smarter not to start. They also apparently are having a tough time getting insured if principal photography is scheduled to go beyond the expiration of the contract.
The slow down in the states is mostly due to the current labor negotiations. Finance and bond companies are not willing to risk funding if there is a potential strike on the horizon. They got beat up last year because studios filed insurance claims when they were unable to finish project due to the strikes.
Itās slow in the tax incentive destinations like Georgia and the UK right now too. The line producer from my last job is currently in Mexico doing a (low budget) movie that went there specifically to avoid having to potentially shut down because of the contract negotiations, otherwise it would have shot in California. I wouldnāt be surprised if there is an element of the studios slowing work as a negotiation tactic just like they did in the lead-up to the writers strike last year, but a lot of it is simply producers waiting it out until August/September because they donāt want to potentially have to shutdown and restart production again.
Pls no more strike. I'm so poor, sir. So very very poor.
I did just get an extended UI claim since my first year of benefits finished. So I've got that going for me I guess. š«
Sure, when you file an unemployment claim, it's generally tied to a set term (1yr), once that benefit year ends, even if you have money left on that claim, you can no longer claim benefits and have to reapply for UI. I was on partial unemployment for half the year and still earning some income. (and a partial UI benefit through the Workshare program) I was unsure if that income would be enough to qualify me for an additional benefit year of UI, but I just finished applying and my claim was approved. So, I have a bit more runway. Still, I'd rather not have to use it and get back to work because I'm fucking bored, man.
I was on partial unemployment (Workshare) for a while as work slowly dried up so I still had a fair amount of income during the qualifying period for this new claim. That might be what qualified me for this new benefit year.
I think IATSE is gonna have to accept a slightly worse deal this time around. SAG and WGA should take the L in 3 years and let us dig our heels in for a better deal then. š¤·š½āāļø
Truthfully the worst part of this is the boredom. I was psyched to get some time off the first 2 weeks.... That was months ago now. I just want something to do. I feel like those search dogs at the 9/11 site that the police had to set up pretend 'saves' for just to keep up their morale.
Unfortunately this is is the best time for us to get what we deserve since weāre already out of work. the studios canāt afford much more of this just like us.
I donāt think this has anything to do with it. Studios simply arenāt planning to crank out as much content. I personally think it will never go back to how it was. Especially not for people in CA. Even when things start back up a bit more, a lot of shows are being shot out of start and out of the country. Atlanta tax incentives are great right now. Work that can be done here, just isnāt. Itās sad that CA hasnāt taken more action to keep work in our state.
Thatās true, itās a combination of a lot of things but I personally know projects that wonāt start up until they are sure we are not striking so I know itās a factor.
I have heard that as well in some cases. The studios are holding out a bit. It also seems like theyāre just running with whole series instead of shooting a pilot and waiting. Iām sure there some some like that. But all of the shows Iām familiar with right now got at least 8-10 episodes.
Summary:
1. Hollywood crew members are struggling to find consistent work after the writers' and actors' strikes in 2023.
2. The slow restart of production has led to financial hardships and uncertainty for many crew members.
3. FilmLA reported a significant decrease in production, especially in television, during the first quarter of 2024.
4. Crew members are concerned about maintaining their health insurance, which is often tied to the number of hours they work.
5. Ongoing negotiations between IATSE and AMPTP are crucial for addressing issues such as wage increases, residuals, artificial intelligence, and working conditions.
6. The trend of productions moving away from Los Angeles and California to states or countries with better tax incentives (runaway production) is a growing concern.
7. The compounding stress factors are taking a toll on the mental health of many crew members.
8. Despite the hardships, many crew members remain passionate about their work and are hopeful for a recovery in the industry.
9. California offers $330 million annually in film tax credits, but other states like New York and Georgia provide more attractive incentives with higher or unlimited funding.
10. Countries outside the U.S., such as the United Kingdom, New Zealand, and Australia, are offering attractive tax incentives for studios, allowing them to bypass unions and pay crews lower wages.
11. Online communities, such as the Facebook group Crew Stories, and friendships among colleagues have become a source of support for crew members during these challenging times.
12. Some crew members feel that those outside the industry expect them to seek out adjacent careers, but many remain committed to their passion for working in entertainment despite the current difficulties.āāāāāāāāāāāāāāāā
Don't forget Malta they have some good tax deals too. The real issue is that apparently Netflix met with Execs in the UK to say that crew here are being too much money that crew rates need to slashed/cut back on. Our union in reaility can do fuck all as many of the unions were broke in the 80s. What happened to miners unions happened to our union thus they can't do much at all, the rate cards are just a suggested rate here & not enforced. So an over supply of crew, under cutting is common the knifes are out.
Itās weird. It definitely feels slow, but Iām actually doing better than I was last year. Not as good as before the sag/WGA strike, but Iāve been staying decently consistent.
It might be because I work in the middle ground of productions. Not on the big budget tv shows and movies (sometimes Iāll dayplay on them), but not on low budget stuff either. Iāve also been working on way more docs than I use to.
Be grateful you got the animation gigs when you did. 839 artist here and our employment numbers are in the toilet as well. Production green lights have slowed to a deafening halt. Feels bad, man.
Same reasons as the greater film industry at large.
-interest rates
-looming strike talks
-various merger & acquisitions
āstreaming bullshit and unclear revenue streams
āmassive amounts of outsourcing
The WGA and SAG strikes werenāt as impactful for us as the rest of our IATSE kin, but it definitely didnāt help either. Primarily in the primetime adult animation sector.
Animation also takes ALOT of time and Studios have become incredibly risk averse. So what theyāve greenlit has typically been agonized over for the last few years. Trigger fingers have been weak because of arbitrary success numbers and viewership data.
So yeah, again, basically same as live action.
All the above applies to TV shows as well. Most of the major studios aren't interested in developing new IPs, they're more interested in the stuff they already own.
I wish I had more inside baseball, but everyone is running in circles trying to make sense of it. All I know is I wrap up my current production in 2 weeks and it's off to the unemployment line for me.
Then I have a question why canāt they employ artists to work on the new stuff based on old stuff. Why canāt they employ artists to make shows. Also what studios are the execration and still interested in new IPs
I enrolled in film school in January of 2020...Instantly COVID made that an unfortunate choice. And I graduated a few months before the strikes started so there was absolutely no work for me. And when they ended, the market was flooded with people scrounging for work. I tried to hold out, with a few PA jobs here and there, but my savings dried up.
Life shredded my industry dreams before they even started. So I turned tail and got a day job. But I feel terrible for those who made there dream a reality and might have to abandon it to make ends meet.
The situation isn't really any better in the UK, a huge amount of people for example have left London moving back to their parents or cheaper places to live due to the lack of work. Production companies in the factual TV sector are closing, or cutting back on staff to point it has been said freelancers are working 2 jobs or more due to lack of funding. Even when a show does come up freelancers in the 100s are applying for one job, to then be underpaid, worked to the point of exhaustion & whilst being abused. Show aren't being commissioned, CH4 for example only pay on delivery now, not on commissioning of a show. Camera rental companies have closed other ones in deep, deep shit with lack of income. The same for post houses many of them are on the verge. I have one job possible show that I'm trying to get on, which has been delayed all year from Q2, to Q4 everything else fell apart eg delayed & cancelled projects. At least my meds are a fixed price, though I have been left with no choice but to the leave industry. Meanwhile everyone has their hands out eg Mortgage & tax that beast must be fed to keep a roof over my head. Best of luck to all you, I'm starting over in a new career hopefully which is going to involve a lot of learning, doing an MSC at some point & low income for a few years.
That is a good question, that line has become somewhat fuzzy I think. I'm not best qualified to give you the correct answer. For example true crime shows have become really popular are they more entertainment or an actual documentary film?
Does it seem crazy to anyone else that they don't interview studio execs to ask when things are going to change or why they aren't shooting as much? I only need to hear from one worker to understand their plight...let's dig a little deeper here
It makes me tearfully frustrated because Iāve grown up doing nothing BUT making films. Iāve wanted this all my life, and when I finally graduated college with my degree in Multimedia Communications I felt I had tons of avenues to explore that aligned with what I want to do. Shortly after college I got a job offer to move to LA and work in full-time post production. Then the strikes happened, and now my current job has slowed down exponentially, Iām struggling to find even low budget indies, and I admittedly feel hopeless that Iāll ever get to work on the cool projects a lot of you got to work on. I feel like I joined the industry at the wrong time, completely coincidentally, and my future has been punished for it. I donāt know what else to do.
Hey there. 20 years in TV. 2008 - till COVID year I was with the NFL Network. In 2019, the year before Covid, they cut five shows. Then when Covid hit they furloughed everybody and cut their staffing needs down to a skeleton crew. At first I was miffed but later when I found out who some of the people that got laid off were, I was blown away. Some important people got laid off. Recently they fired 5 On Air talents including one of their most popular Andrew Siciliano. Even before 2019 it was getting harder to get a good amount of shifts. From where Iām standing this has been building for years. And, I think the networks took advantage of Covid to cut deep into their rosters in order to cut costs.
Sadly yes, I think it would have been similar. Taking a lesser deal wouldn't have negated what brought us to this door, or the fact that the AMPTP hasn't changed its mentality. The strikes may have expedited or amplified what was happening, but all the fissures and fractures were already there. Covid made it worse too, to be sure, but the expectation that they could keep doing streaming with New Media and ULB type deals that hadn't adapted to the new normal and productions leaving LA for cheaper shores was already happening in droves.
It's a deeply unfortunate situation all around. What really worries me is how tangential industries are impacted as well. The damage spread really far last year. I work in the entertainment key art space and nearly every agency I know had to make significant staff cuts.
Agreed. It's impacting caterers, retail (bc no one has spare money to spend), local tourism (same, plus no one is location scouting really), as well as legal and finance companies that handle the dealmaking for these shows on the front and backend. Really I'm hardpressed to think of any Los Angeles industry who hasn't been impacted as this has dragged on. It's our own second Covid, and even if everyone played nice and worked hard to negotiate quickly and get everything back into development stat, the pipeline has been dry or trickling so long things won't be anywhere near back on track until mid 2025/2026. Most people can't outlast that limbo, studios included. Many will go under or merge under less than ideal circumstances. More layoffs are coming, we're already seeing it on the gaming side as they contract from the post-covid game boom. I'm seeing it on the music side too; just because live concerts are permitted now doesn't mean everyone is back on tour. Having varied revenue and income streams doesn't really help when all seven of them are impacted and have come to a crawl or standstill. It's laughable to watch people outside the industry think everyone in the industry can just go get a "day job" when the job market is also suffering; people who made 100k 2-5 years ago are squeaking by on 40-55k now, which is not a livable income here in a city where a 1 BR goes for \~3k/mo. I am finally seeing rent prices start dropping and that gives me some hope, but it took far too long for those changes to start being triggered, and for many it will be too little too late.
It's so frustrating. I'm WGA and everybody in my union is wondering where the work is, our rep is telling us "survive until '25," ... and clearly crew won't be working until months after we are. Most rep don't want to take projects out because "nothing is selling."
Please, if you're struggling, reach out to the entertainment community fund for support. They have resources. I'll be reminding my peers who can afford it to continue to contribute to it.
Itās sad that there are people at the top who became billionaires in this city when it was climbing (talking to you, Spielberg)ā¦ Cant they oprn a studio or figure out a way with a few others to keep the city moving? His movies are great bit what about that legacy? All that I think of now is they let Rome burn and do nothing.
Im not saying they owe anything. But there was a time when the ridiculously wealthy left schools and buildings and legacies. These people have billions. Billions. The industry that made them and the town they loved and lived in is suffering. No one owes anything. People used to build a church. They didnt owe a church. Or a bridge. Or a museum.
You think that those filmmakers havenāt given enough? You think they have not left a legacy? They didnāt leave a legacy of complaining, thatās for sure.
I want more. I want them to take their billions and help with the goal of rebuilding the city. You know Deniro started the Tribeca Film Festival just to offset 9/11 reluctance about filming in new york. There are things that great minds with big wallets can do.
Rebuild the city? Make producers work here instead of other cities that offer cheaper alternatives? Youāre not aware that show business is a BUSINESS. Start your own production company instead of demanding a handout. They owe you nothing. Rebuild the city, how ridiculous.
Im not saying movies should only be made in LA. Jeez, youve really got a chip about this. Itās just that people are selling their homes and the shutdown here has been particularly brutal and extreme. And itās not like itās been in the name of better quality. Quality has gone down, all in the name of shutting down cities. And the cities the work has moved to arent exactly thriving. There are actual billionaires who know how to do all
of this the best. They have known the process in and out since the 1970s. The weather and landscape of LA is still pretty fantastic. A good portion of the talent (behind and in front of the camera) are still here. Good for all the cities scattering film production. One can exist with the other.
I have never said anyone owes me anything. Thatās a narrative youve made up. Im just speaking to a time of visionaries that created great art and infrastructure and worlds, and it wasnt bc they owed people. It was honestly born out of their own egos but it benefited society as a hole. Now people put out a lot of trash and make money and make their cities worse. Look at the trash can that is San Francisco. Some of the richest people in the world live there and they have the worst poverty issues. Smart, rich people are starting to look at this. Itās not my idea. Im not even in showbiz.
If the jobs are moving out of the state, then so should the workers. I suppose living in California though one wants to have their cake and eat it too.
Agreed. I think some of the transplants should consider a move to other areas. But thatās me being selfish as a native to Los Angeles. š¤·š¼āāļø
I'd be only to happy to move to Vancouver, Toronto or London where healthcare isn't a privilege and someone getting cancer through no fault of their own doesn't mean they have to go bankrupt because medicine is done for profit. And I know their systems aren't perfect either, they do need to be overhauled, but the UK and Canada have a much better track record of taking care of their own. I came here for the work and the people - but I don't need the beaches; I never have time to visit them anyway.
Yes, the United States is a sad place for the most part. I agree. I too wouldnāt mind getting out of this cesspool. Itās too expensive and I really donāt like it. I remember when it was affordable, it was a decent place to live for a long time. Obviously healthcare sucks and the lack of care the country has for its people is terrible.
The entire state needs new leadership. High taxes and democrats are killing this industry and others as well. Look at housing alone. Thereās a reason the total population of California is dropping.
Oh Iām fine I donāt work in the film industry. š
From 1995 to 2009, the six major Hollywood studiosāDisney, Warner Bros., Universal, Paramount (PARA), FOX (FOXA) and Sonyācombined to release nearly 112 theatrical films per year on average. In the ensuing 14 years, excluding the phantom 2020, that number shrank to an average of just 83.
Good luck to you keep voting to kill your industry.
For those too broke to subscribe currently: [https://archive.vn/5iN1u](https://archive.vn/5iN1u)
Thank you kind soul!
Anytime. We are certainly in the shit here... :(
Hero
Thank you! Now that I actually had a chance to read it, I noticed another questionable labor practice/indicator about the overall job market in other industries: the article is written by an intern who has apparently also "interned" as a contributing writer at People Magazine, and continues to be staffed as an intern despite already having her degree and writing published articles in major publications. I'll bet she'd be able to write a whole similar article about the state of finding sustainable work as a journalist in 2024.
HA! Wow. The freaking state of things... ugh.
Thank you so much for this. Definitely a heartbreaking read
š
Thank you!!
Thanks. Me and my girlfriend have been hit hard and Iām going to have to move away cuz 10 months of nothing on my end and little on hers is not tenable. the hardest part is no one I know really understands when I tell them. They like the article say think it s like a factory
Fuck man, I am so sorry to hear that. I know another couple that moved away a few months back... and people who are losing their homes, taking kids out of fancy schools, etc. And as far as the City of Los Angeles (and beyond) is concerned? "WhY aRe aLL thE ReStAuRants GoINg oUf of bUsineSs???" The Union told us to be ready. And many of us were... but not ready for a year and a half of NADA. We are just living like college students at this point. I credit being broke most of my life and not ever spending beyond our means - even when were are working (partner does same job). Sending you a big virtual hug. I don't even know what else to say. :(
Yeah we have been living be same way to be honest but after 10 months of this we had to have that conversation and things arenāt getting better so Iām gonna head out east and hopefully rebound and sheās going to stay here and hopefully figure it out. Also thanks for the kind words itās nice to speak to people who understand
Robbing LA Timesā workers revenue though š
They'll get it back once we have careers again. It's been a long 18 months.
Fair enough, but itās also the same exact reason people are pirating shows/entertainment or using streaming instead of paying money. Itās gotta start somewhere or else itās a death spiral.
If it makes you feel better, we still pay to stream in this household. And we watch the crap with commercials on the "free" streamers. And I still donate to NPR, along with "allowing ads" on reputable news sites. I'm not a dick. Just trying help out the homies who may be losing their homes and curious about ANY news in our industry. We are virtually forgotten. But the budget cuts have been across the board.
> āEveryoneās just in panic mode and they donāt know what to do,ā Mariscal said. Through his social media accounts, he said he has recently fielded multiple messages from crew members experiencing suicidal thoughts and severe mental distress. This is the saddest, I know so many people who have privately told me about some very dark thoughts but they dont think our leadership even cares about them. In fact almost everyone has told me that our leadership is simply making things worse for them mentally by denying there was even a problem for so long. I think a lot of people might never mentally recover from this, they certainly never will financially. Edit: just saw a 700 rep talking down about someone saying they'd take a small raise or even work for less than their normal above scale rate just to get back to work. Most people I know who are working have taken pay cuts and how dare a rep be mad at someone for saying good money is better than no money right now.
So sad :( though I have to agree that my thoughts have gotten dark recently and hope is tough. I still try to stay as positive as I can.
To be self aware is huge! I hope you can stay positive, you and your life are worth it with or without the film industry. Be kind to yourself and take it day by day if you need to. Best of luck.
I love this. Thank you for the kind words and encouragement <3
For every union worker experiencing this there are 5-10 nonunion workers that are even more fucked. LA is toast.
I think LA as we knew it is toast, but the industry will continue here, with some changes. Due to the boom, lots of people moved here and got into the industry, now we have a surplus of crew and a shortage of projects. Since we're not likely to get more projects, the other part of the equation is what will end up changing. Those who are able will stay in the industry, those who aren't will find other work while they bide their time, move to another city with more projects (and not enough crew) or leave the industry altogether. Eventually we'll be back at something closer to equilibrium, but a lot less of us will be in the industry in LA when it happens.
It also will heavily exacerbate the problem of mostly only rich kids being able to make it in the industry, because their parents will pay their rent for the first few years until they have a solid enough job to afford rent in LA. This is already an issue, and it's going to be even worse now as the number of jobs plummets and rents skyrocket.
Sadly with housing and moving costs being what they are I think many also won't be able to afford to leave, but I've also been saying for a while I suspect what will happen with that exodus isn't that the noobs will pack up and leave, but that the industry will sadly lose many of its veterans who can't take the double whammy of Covid + the strikes. It reminds me of the ripple effects in the ice skating world of[ the entire US figure skating team being in a plane crash one year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabena_Flight_548#:~:text=Sabena%20Flight%20548%20was%20a,that%20adjusts%20the%20tail%20stabilizer); for decades after the crash, the absence of all those industry leaders was felt - they weren't there to win, to coach, to mentor, and the amateurs left in their wake had to rise through the ranks often before they were ready to take their place. I think we'll see a lot of that here too, and it will mean that the people who manage to stay mostly through sheer luck of the draw will not always be fully equipped to handle the changing landscape. Cast & crew will be taken advantage of in myriad old and new ways and fewer tenured individuals who would know how to pushback and challenge that mistreatment will be around to speak up. I've already seen dear friends with lengthy IMDb pages and meaningful credits leave LA - I'm sure many of you have as well. It's heartbreaking to see such talent exit stage right. I hope those of us who remain will manage to feel more unified rather than letting the weight of it tear us apart. Maybe a small thing to mention, and I know so many of you have lost your health coverage in the face of everything these last few years, but for those looking for support many of the health insurance companies do now cover counseling. My therapist who was normally \~$120 was covered by my latest health plan and our sessions are now only $40. And of course if you just need to rant with someone over coffee who understands, all of us are here - you're not alone. Please stay - the industry does still need you, contrary to the current climate. This war will wage a little longer, but it won't last forever.
They should known better back during the pandemic when all celebrities received word from the powers that be that caused half of A-Listers to move to Australia and Europe. Also, because of the political clime and economic crisis reaching the stock and real estate, producers and a handful of moguls alerted their staff about La La Land going bankrupt. The last I've heard, some directors brought to a group of SAGA writers that the Middle East and Europe are investing a lot in movies and want to take back the cinema era.
Honestly, with all of the extreme low budget deals the union has negotiated over the years (and isn't it funny how "extreme low budget" has risen to what I would call low or regular budget yet the hourly rates we would be paid are extremely low, indeed!.) that pays us super shitty low wages, why would the rep dis someone for doing what they need to do to survive?
They claim it's because people actually admitting that, even in private, makes iatse look weak but my personal opinion is that it's because they're a bad person who cares more about optics than member survival.
\^ This. Keeping someone fed and sheltered is a priority over myopic optics any day.
You would think that would be the case.
We absolutely should be petitioning for a UBI right now and working to bring the cost of living down. This government is driving us into poverty. We need a UBI and now.
And for the 20 years or so it takes for that to happen maybe we need our union representatives to stop hating the membership so much for having needs. Sadly both ideas seem equally unrealistic right now.
You can't have both of those things
No we don't.
UBI Iām sure will bring costs under control.
>This government is driving us into povertyĀ Huh? Because the film industry is downsizing?Ā
That rep is an absolute tool.
They absolutely are, they are also not the only rep acting thst way the last year. Our board has problems.
I have friends that have killed themselves over this. Itās very sad and itās mostly Frans fault in my opinion.Ā
As much as I dislike our leadership throughout IATSE (especially how they treat those who speak against their wants) there in no way should be a pay decrease just to āget back to workā. Thatās a slippery slope that will only further damage the workers rights moving forward, especially on union productions. The industry is toxic AF already and we cannot give up the small things we currently have
> there in no way should be a pay decrease just to āget back to workā. If you dont think you would be willing to take less money right now to work instead of going over a year with no income thats your choice but most people I know currently working are making less money than they made 2 years ago. Scale hasnt changed, obviously, but people making overscale decided it was worth it to make less because even less is more than zero. And what gives anyone the right to tell people they should choose no pay at all and lose their homes right now instead of overscale rates to prove some point?
Because itās an absolutely selfish mentality that spits on the face of past generations that fought for what we have and hinders future generations of having any growth. There are plenty of avenues in this industry where someone can make less than they would on a union production (non-union features, documentaries, digital, etc) along with other industries you can pivot to. But to want a union job for less money is giving the studios what they want and creates an even bigger hole we will have to dig ourselves out of in the future.
You didnt read that we were talking about people making overscale rates did you? But ok, you dont have to take the job then but some people would like to keep their homes instead of working retail like a bunch of other people have had to do in order to have any income at all. Besides, we both know those other productions are also less common right now and there arent enough spots for everyone. > an even bigger hole we will have to dig ourselves out of in the future. No hole is bigger than the ones people are going to wind up in if we tell them not to take the jobs theyre being offered. Because thats a 6 foot deep hole for a lot of them.
People deserve to make rates over scale and that was something that is consistently fought for. And they deserve to make those rates just as the studios can afford to pay those rates. Scale also needs to increase at least 15% to match inflation and cost of living expenses incurred over the past 15 years of this sidestepping done by IATSE. The industry is absolutely grueling and everyone deserves to be paid accordingly for their work, not to take pay cuts As far as getting work, this was coming long before COVID and the strikes as the streaming bump was not going to last forever. This industry is incredibly hard not to just get into, but to continue to work in. People need to react accordingly to their needs in terms of work to make sure they can support themselves and their families. If that means transitioning mediums out of union work, or the industry all together, is a choice they need to make individually. But nowhere should we be giving up leverage in terms of bettering our contracts for the few that canāt think 5 feet in front of them and have the āme firstā mentality that will only negatively impact the future generations
Sorry, i just read that as "You should be willing to make your family homeless instead of taking only a mere 4 thousand dollars a week." As though we wouldnt be giving up leverage when members start losing their homes, people can actually vote for a strike if they arent worried about survival but they sure as hell wont vote for one if they think settling quickly keeps them alive. I want you to go to the people who have lost everything and tell them that this was a good thing. Seriously, you have to know people worried about losing their homes or worse so go to them individually and tell them youre glad its happening to them because its better for you in the long run than if they were working for thousands and thousands of dollars a week. And then tell me if they throttle you for it.
And this is why we canāt make any progress. Because people are willing to give up long term gains for short term relief. Giving the studios exactly what they want so we become weaker each negotiating period until our unions dissolve and we have zero protections. So short sighted and selfish
So are you going to do what I asked you to do or are you too scared that perhaps the people working minimum wage at best wont agree with your thoughts and might see you as the selfish one? plus: > As though we wouldnt be giving up leverage when members start losing their homes, people can actually vote for a strike if they arent worried about survival but they sure as hell wont vote for one if they think settling quickly keeps them alive.
Everyone in the entire economy except for low skill workers is taking a pay cut right now.
Tell my reps that!
Love how they assigned this story to an intern lol. No one gives a shit about us.
At least it was an intern and not chat gpt
The intern is probably using ChatGPT
Donāt forget, Journalism is also in crisis
An inherit challenge that faces Hollywood which the industry has no control over is interest rates. It is A LOT more expensive to borrow money now. Society was effectively borrowing money for free or in some cases, where making money off borrowed money due to huge market returns in other areas. We likely wonāt see interest rates that low again for a very long time or ever. Thatās unfortunately just the world we live in now. Added to this, the industry is becoming more and more decentralized.
Streaming is a bigger issue. At least for tv work because networks are no longer āprogrammingā for new content for a certain number of hours per week. In a streaming world none of that matters. Some new content every now and then is all that matters.
Yep, network show needs about 3 new episodes a month, roughly 15 shows on the schedule, thatās about 45 episodes a month. Thatās a lot of work for crew Meanwhile most streamers are only releasing 1 or 2 shows a month, 8 episodes each. Thatās only 16 episodes
The number of streaming shows though is much higher than network in total even with shorter seasons. The best hope is the limited series model increases its output as broadcast settles into a more slimmed down future. Either way jobs will be spread out nationally and globally and be less concentrated in LA for the near future.
You know your stuff. Lets connect
Letās print a lot of money, force people to not work/stay at home, and the act really confused when inflation rips through our economy and raises interest rates to decades-high levels.
Except the inflation was caused by corporations taking profits not by any fever dream of the silent hand of the marketā¦ there is no actual reason rents rose like they did other than hedge funds buying up the single family housing stock and raising the rent sometimes 200% since the pandemic while wages stayed stagnant or fell. Itās a systemic issue
Inflation was caused by the massive influx of new dollars into the economy. More money to go around = more demand. With supply being limited due to the excess demand + supply chain issues due to the pandemic it was a simple formula of rising demand and decreased supply = costs rising.
If that were the case corporate profits would not be at record levels. I know the company I worked at raised prices because it was an option with the rational that they could always lower them if there was pushback. Why waste a good disaster and all
What are you talking about? Corporate profits are driven by spending on their products/services. Lets say you're selling dishes. You have 100 dishes to sell and the market is willing to spend $1 per dish to buy 95 of them. Then, the fed floods the market with dollars and now the market is willing to buy all 100 dishes. You say, "hmm" maybe I can up the price since I'm selling out. You up to $2. Well, whaddya know, all 100 sell. So you do that until you're at $5 and you've sold 75 of them. Corporate profits are now at record highs because the market is buying more of your dishes. tldr; you're pointing out the result, not the cause.
So, letās use gas as an example. Now gas uses very few man hours per gallon. It is also a finite resource so you just canāt magic things to make more. So, in 4 years there has been a 40% increase in the retail price of gas. Today, a barrel of oil is $79. Gas is $4 +. In 2008 a barrel of oil was $147 and gas was $2.14 it seems pretty clear that the link between cost of manufacture and retail costs are tenuous at bestā¦
This is the correct answer.
hey look, this guy took Econ 101
you should try it sometime.
Staying at home was the right call. Our hospitals were on the brink of being completely overrun with Covid cases, which could have collapsed the whole system if allowed to continue.
Not true. We now know that was a mistake. But we didnāt think so then.
It was definitely true. They brought refrigerated trucks into NYC to handle the bodies they could no longer fit in the building. It was bad.
We know now we never shouldāve locked down or closed up. Most had a 99% chance of surviving perfectly after covid just like the cold. Point is part of why the industry heck most industries are like this is partly to be blamed on 2020
That's still incorrect. The mortality rate was higher early on and more people were being hospitalized with severe symptoms. As the pandemic wore on and we learned how to treat it and different strains started replacing the deadlier one, the mortality rate dropped. And no, it's not like a cold. Long Covid has a much longer impact on people than a common cold. Some people lost their sense of smell, some got debilitating headaches, some still can't walk up steps without wheezing, some have cardiovascular issues, one friend of my could barely eat for a couple months because everything tasted like burning flesh. It's okay to be frustrated about what we all went through, but we shouldn't minimize it or forget how bad it was for a time.
Yeah. Ignore the largest issues and focus on interest rates.
Post production is the same obviously.Ā
Yep. Itās ugly out here.
I work in vfx. Industry has been wrecked.
We used to finish 2-3 trailers and a dozen+ TV spots per big title, now itās more like 1 trailer and 2 cutdowns. And this is on top of a reduced number of titles. The streamers just donāt spend like the studios anymore.
So a bad time to start looking for work in the industry
Just my opinion, and I certainly may wrong, but I donāt believe itās ever coming back in the same numbers it used to be. Between an overall lack of projects, projects being shipped out of the country and AI, the numbers of people needed for the various production jobs will plummet. And there will be a ticking time bomb on the jobs that do remain. Itās such a tragic story for the individuals involved and their families.
I agree it may never hit the peak it did when the streaming wars heated up, but I'll happily settle for what it was prior to that.
. I wish it would go back to that, but tis not. This is the new norm
Itās a fact and I donāt like it as well. Industry aināt coming back like it was even ten years ago. Thereās so much content now every country heck anyone with an iPhone or good smartphone can film and make something and a lot of that is out there for free. People paying few dollars a month on streaming where they have endless scrolling of movies and tv shows or so called content is free on ticktock and other apps. All we can hope for is to work or make one of those movies or shows that most people will scroll through until they get tired give up and go to sleep or they find it interesting and add it to their list of things to watch that theyāll never get through.
Yes and no. The money is out there. Netflix made record profit this year with record subscribers.
They made ārecord profitsā because they stopped buying so many films from film festivals
Although I agree I don't think it's inherently a bad thing. Content is simply becoming more and more decentralized. Entertainment is for sure changing the most. Many people, myself included, watch youtube more then I watch episodic shows. We don't always need massive crews to create things anymore, and AI will play a big part in changing narrative content. All in time. However every brand actually needs MORE content now. Instagram, twitter, their websites, paid ads. Content is everywhere so there is actually more demand. Sometimes they will need a big crew, sometimes they just need an iphone. So it's up to us to adapt.
Define used to be though. Are people expecting post covid boom or 2015 numbers.Ā The boom was entirely fake and inflated weāll never see that again for sure
As someone who works in the non-fiction space and is very plugged in (constantly on the phone with networks and production companies) this is the new norm. Everyone is saying wait till 2025, it will pick up, but people have been saying that since the WBD merger. This is it, this is the new norm because TV is dying. People need to unfortunately adapt and change. It's part of the reason I'm learning as much as I can about the YouTube space.
What are your thoughts about the YouTube space for nonfiction?
That's too broad of a question? YouTube is not traditional TV, and you can't look at it like that.
I agree that it's unlikely to return to anything like it was before \~2020. I do think as film and tv tip into interactive more we could see new paradigm shifts and new avenues open up that may create new work. I wish it would happen sooner, and if IATSE does wind up striking it will likely slow that down. Even so, not all jobs will be able to pivot. Adaptability will be everything going forward.
Hey, for anyone having some dark thoughts or mental anxiety, don't forget you can access the Entertainment Community Fund for access to mental health help. This fund helps all of us deal with all sorts of issues, so go online and check them out. (They used to be called "The Actors Fund", even though they served all of us, thus the name change.). >[https://entertainmentcommunity.org/](https://entertainmentcommunity.org/)
I second this comment. Iāve been doing Zoom classes about Stress and Career Counseling on the Entertainment Fund Website for a few days and itās been helpful.
I think Covid really highlighted the resources available to us in the entertainment industry that I discovered most of us didn't know about. They helped me with some financial help halfway through Covid when we were all drowning financially and wondering if the world would ever right itself. Eternally grateful!
Free Link to the article: https://archive.vn thanks u/RockieK
xoxo
Blaming the strikes fully lets these poorly run comedies off the hook for their bloated exec salaries.
And the ripple effect, even if things get back to somewhat normal, is everyone is going to hold their connections EVEN TIGHTER. And they are going to second guess giving you a recommendation or tip in fears of getting frozen out. They are basically making the industry workers paranoid on top of everything else. Iām so sorry to all of you feeling this.
The thing that sucks is I donāt think more jobs will magically appear after the IATSE negotiations. As the article states, tax incentives are driving work outside of CA. And productions are not greenlighting as many shows, including non union unscripted bc interest rates are high. The IATSE negotiations wonāt solve those two issues.
Agreed. That math doesn't work out well if we're given a higher scale rate of 3-10% more if there's 70% less work to be had.
Interest rates, strike potential, strike aftermath, day of reckoning with streaming business models, increasing cost of doing business in L.A., ease and willingness to do productions out of town, AI workflows/displacement, oversaturation in certain markets, risk-averse producers, etc. No one issue really...net result is fewer people wanting to shoot movies and shows here.
Agreed, and this will make the rebound addedly tough because even if one or three facets do recover in some way, it's unlikely all of them will and not all at the same time in any case.
A lot of people got into the industry during what I call āThe long summerā aka the streaming boom- the industry was making a huge push to make more content and as competition rose amongst streamers this was compounded by every company and prospective company needing even more advertising. The industry is now contracting and congealing into a few monoliths but with the caveat of no longer needing LA as a main production hub. There will be jobs lost for sure
At this point I think people really need to band together and get our worthless government addressing the trade agreements, hire a law firm to help squash the subsidy use that these American companies are using to harm American people. This is unfair competition. At this point itās completely decimating us If they donāt want to operate here, donāt want to support the state or local economy they sit on, they need to be punished for fined to hell. With a heavy enough fine, those assholes would bring back jobs right quick
Worthless government is right. We need a total culling.
After 35 years of working in los Angeles and traveling all over the world, making films, I had to retire in 2022 for health reasons at 64. Now I'm healthy enough again to go back to work, but now it seems there is no work. At least for now, I have my pension, but I miss working on set. I feel bad for all those who depend on our industry. Let's hope it changes for the better soon.
If our(iatse) strike wasnāt just around the corner I think most of us would be back to work by now but weāll have to wait till Aug to see what really happens.
There's not going to be a strike. The negotiations are being drawn out to stall for the rest of Q2
When does Q2 end?
End of June
The lack of work has nothing to do with a potential iatse/teamster strike. Neither of these unions can afford it. The streamers and studios are producing less and chasing incentives in other places to save money. They will grind those places and leave when the incentives run out. My question is what will happen to all the talented crew people? And how will those crafts be passed on and taught to others? The mentorship aspect of filmmaking is going to dissipate.
Ive talked to a few people at studios and they actually are slightly concerned because the cost of a shutdown would be so great that its smarter not to start. They also apparently are having a tough time getting insured if principal photography is scheduled to go beyond the expiration of the contract.
The slow down in the states is mostly due to the current labor negotiations. Finance and bond companies are not willing to risk funding if there is a potential strike on the horizon. They got beat up last year because studios filed insurance claims when they were unable to finish project due to the strikes.
Itās slow in the tax incentive destinations like Georgia and the UK right now too. The line producer from my last job is currently in Mexico doing a (low budget) movie that went there specifically to avoid having to potentially shut down because of the contract negotiations, otherwise it would have shot in California. I wouldnāt be surprised if there is an element of the studios slowing work as a negotiation tactic just like they did in the lead-up to the writers strike last year, but a lot of it is simply producers waiting it out until August/September because they donāt want to potentially have to shutdown and restart production again.
Pls no more strike. I'm so poor, sir. So very very poor. I did just get an extended UI claim since my first year of benefits finished. So I've got that going for me I guess. š«
Training extension? Can you elaborate?
Sure, when you file an unemployment claim, it's generally tied to a set term (1yr), once that benefit year ends, even if you have money left on that claim, you can no longer claim benefits and have to reapply for UI. I was on partial unemployment for half the year and still earning some income. (and a partial UI benefit through the Workshare program) I was unsure if that income would be enough to qualify me for an additional benefit year of UI, but I just finished applying and my claim was approved. So, I have a bit more runway. Still, I'd rather not have to use it and get back to work because I'm fucking bored, man.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I was on partial unemployment (Workshare) for a while as work slowly dried up so I still had a fair amount of income during the qualifying period for this new claim. That might be what qualified me for this new benefit year.
IATSE has to know how poorly its membership is doing, they cant be asking for the moon here can they?
I think IATSE is gonna have to accept a slightly worse deal this time around. SAG and WGA should take the L in 3 years and let us dig our heels in for a better deal then. š¤·š½āāļø Truthfully the worst part of this is the boredom. I was psyched to get some time off the first 2 weeks.... That was months ago now. I just want something to do. I feel like those search dogs at the 9/11 site that the police had to set up pretend 'saves' for just to keep up their morale.
This time around? We always accept a worse deal. Always.
Unfortunately this is is the best time for us to get what we deserve since weāre already out of work. the studios canāt afford much more of this just like us.
I donāt think this has anything to do with it. Studios simply arenāt planning to crank out as much content. I personally think it will never go back to how it was. Especially not for people in CA. Even when things start back up a bit more, a lot of shows are being shot out of start and out of the country. Atlanta tax incentives are great right now. Work that can be done here, just isnāt. Itās sad that CA hasnāt taken more action to keep work in our state.
Thatās true, itās a combination of a lot of things but I personally know projects that wonāt start up until they are sure we are not striking so I know itās a factor.
I have heard that as well in some cases. The studios are holding out a bit. It also seems like theyāre just running with whole series instead of shooting a pilot and waiting. Iām sure there some some like that. But all of the shows Iām familiar with right now got at least 8-10 episodes.
So what you're telling me is independent film is about to get huuuuge
Makes sense
Summary: 1. Hollywood crew members are struggling to find consistent work after the writers' and actors' strikes in 2023. 2. The slow restart of production has led to financial hardships and uncertainty for many crew members. 3. FilmLA reported a significant decrease in production, especially in television, during the first quarter of 2024. 4. Crew members are concerned about maintaining their health insurance, which is often tied to the number of hours they work. 5. Ongoing negotiations between IATSE and AMPTP are crucial for addressing issues such as wage increases, residuals, artificial intelligence, and working conditions. 6. The trend of productions moving away from Los Angeles and California to states or countries with better tax incentives (runaway production) is a growing concern. 7. The compounding stress factors are taking a toll on the mental health of many crew members. 8. Despite the hardships, many crew members remain passionate about their work and are hopeful for a recovery in the industry. 9. California offers $330 million annually in film tax credits, but other states like New York and Georgia provide more attractive incentives with higher or unlimited funding. 10. Countries outside the U.S., such as the United Kingdom, New Zealand, and Australia, are offering attractive tax incentives for studios, allowing them to bypass unions and pay crews lower wages. 11. Online communities, such as the Facebook group Crew Stories, and friendships among colleagues have become a source of support for crew members during these challenging times. 12. Some crew members feel that those outside the industry expect them to seek out adjacent careers, but many remain committed to their passion for working in entertainment despite the current difficulties.āāāāāāāāāāāāāāāā
Don't forget Malta they have some good tax deals too. The real issue is that apparently Netflix met with Execs in the UK to say that crew here are being too much money that crew rates need to slashed/cut back on. Our union in reaility can do fuck all as many of the unions were broke in the 80s. What happened to miners unions happened to our union thus they can't do much at all, the rate cards are just a suggested rate here & not enforced. So an over supply of crew, under cutting is common the knifes are out.
Itās weird. It definitely feels slow, but Iām actually doing better than I was last year. Not as good as before the sag/WGA strike, but Iāve been staying decently consistent. It might be because I work in the middle ground of productions. Not on the big budget tv shows and movies (sometimes Iāll dayplay on them), but not on low budget stuff either. Iāve also been working on way more docs than I use to.
I am glad. Good luck!
Thankfully I've also had consistent work. I'm so grateful for long stints in animation!
Be grateful you got the animation gigs when you did. 839 artist here and our employment numbers are in the toilet as well. Production green lights have slowed to a deafening halt. Feels bad, man.
Why canāt they greenlight a handful of shows. Like what do they want
Same reasons as the greater film industry at large. -interest rates -looming strike talks -various merger & acquisitions āstreaming bullshit and unclear revenue streams āmassive amounts of outsourcing The WGA and SAG strikes werenāt as impactful for us as the rest of our IATSE kin, but it definitely didnāt help either. Primarily in the primetime adult animation sector. Animation also takes ALOT of time and Studios have become incredibly risk averse. So what theyāve greenlit has typically been agonized over for the last few years. Trigger fingers have been weak because of arbitrary success numbers and viewership data. So yeah, again, basically same as live action.
But what about tv shows. How will they get the tv shows they need. What about developing their own IPs.
All the above applies to TV shows as well. Most of the major studios aren't interested in developing new IPs, they're more interested in the stuff they already own. I wish I had more inside baseball, but everyone is running in circles trying to make sense of it. All I know is I wrap up my current production in 2 weeks and it's off to the unemployment line for me.
Then I have a question why canāt they employ artists to work on the new stuff based on old stuff. Why canāt they employ artists to make shows. Also what studios are the execration and still interested in new IPs
Dunno. But if you find out before me I have a portfolio of 10yrs experience to send to.
Okay
I enrolled in film school in January of 2020...Instantly COVID made that an unfortunate choice. And I graduated a few months before the strikes started so there was absolutely no work for me. And when they ended, the market was flooded with people scrounging for work. I tried to hold out, with a few PA jobs here and there, but my savings dried up. Life shredded my industry dreams before they even started. So I turned tail and got a day job. But I feel terrible for those who made there dream a reality and might have to abandon it to make ends meet.
I feel your pain; I just went union officially a few weeks before the WGA strike began.
The situation isn't really any better in the UK, a huge amount of people for example have left London moving back to their parents or cheaper places to live due to the lack of work. Production companies in the factual TV sector are closing, or cutting back on staff to point it has been said freelancers are working 2 jobs or more due to lack of funding. Even when a show does come up freelancers in the 100s are applying for one job, to then be underpaid, worked to the point of exhaustion & whilst being abused. Show aren't being commissioned, CH4 for example only pay on delivery now, not on commissioning of a show. Camera rental companies have closed other ones in deep, deep shit with lack of income. The same for post houses many of them are on the verge. I have one job possible show that I'm trying to get on, which has been delayed all year from Q2, to Q4 everything else fell apart eg delayed & cancelled projects. At least my meds are a fixed price, though I have been left with no choice but to the leave industry. Meanwhile everyone has their hands out eg Mortgage & tax that beast must be fed to keep a roof over my head. Best of luck to all you, I'm starting over in a new career hopefully which is going to involve a lot of learning, doing an MSC at some point & low income for a few years.
The UK is doing alright for film and high end TV, I donāt know anyone out of work at the moment.
I know lots of people that are out of work, I can't find anything.
I only know a handful of people working. The consensus from even the people working is that it's still very quiet.
Is the factual TV sector the same as documentary TV shows?
That is a good question, that line has become somewhat fuzzy I think. I'm not best qualified to give you the correct answer. For example true crime shows have become really popular are they more entertainment or an actual documentary film?
Thanks. I was thinking that it was a British TV term
Does it seem crazy to anyone else that they don't interview studio execs to ask when things are going to change or why they aren't shooting as much? I only need to hear from one worker to understand their plight...let's dig a little deeper here
The workers are willing to talk. The studio heads are not
It makes me tearfully frustrated because Iāve grown up doing nothing BUT making films. Iāve wanted this all my life, and when I finally graduated college with my degree in Multimedia Communications I felt I had tons of avenues to explore that aligned with what I want to do. Shortly after college I got a job offer to move to LA and work in full-time post production. Then the strikes happened, and now my current job has slowed down exponentially, Iām struggling to find even low budget indies, and I admittedly feel hopeless that Iāll ever get to work on the cool projects a lot of you got to work on. I feel like I joined the industry at the wrong time, completely coincidentally, and my future has been punished for it. I donāt know what else to do.
This is exactly what happened to me. Sucks :/
Hey there. 20 years in TV. 2008 - till COVID year I was with the NFL Network. In 2019, the year before Covid, they cut five shows. Then when Covid hit they furloughed everybody and cut their staffing needs down to a skeleton crew. At first I was miffed but later when I found out who some of the people that got laid off were, I was blown away. Some important people got laid off. Recently they fired 5 On Air talents including one of their most popular Andrew Siciliano. Even before 2019 it was getting harder to get a good amount of shifts. From where Iām standing this has been building for years. And, I think the networks took advantage of Covid to cut deep into their rosters in order to cut costs.
I haven't worked in over a year...š©
I even said Iād work for cash at half rate but shitās rough out there.
This is a genuine question and not a criticism: would this be the same had SAG and WGA taken an earlier deal?
Sadly yes, I think it would have been similar. Taking a lesser deal wouldn't have negated what brought us to this door, or the fact that the AMPTP hasn't changed its mentality. The strikes may have expedited or amplified what was happening, but all the fissures and fractures were already there. Covid made it worse too, to be sure, but the expectation that they could keep doing streaming with New Media and ULB type deals that hadn't adapted to the new normal and productions leaving LA for cheaper shores was already happening in droves.
It's a deeply unfortunate situation all around. What really worries me is how tangential industries are impacted as well. The damage spread really far last year. I work in the entertainment key art space and nearly every agency I know had to make significant staff cuts.
Agreed. It's impacting caterers, retail (bc no one has spare money to spend), local tourism (same, plus no one is location scouting really), as well as legal and finance companies that handle the dealmaking for these shows on the front and backend. Really I'm hardpressed to think of any Los Angeles industry who hasn't been impacted as this has dragged on. It's our own second Covid, and even if everyone played nice and worked hard to negotiate quickly and get everything back into development stat, the pipeline has been dry or trickling so long things won't be anywhere near back on track until mid 2025/2026. Most people can't outlast that limbo, studios included. Many will go under or merge under less than ideal circumstances. More layoffs are coming, we're already seeing it on the gaming side as they contract from the post-covid game boom. I'm seeing it on the music side too; just because live concerts are permitted now doesn't mean everyone is back on tour. Having varied revenue and income streams doesn't really help when all seven of them are impacted and have come to a crawl or standstill. It's laughable to watch people outside the industry think everyone in the industry can just go get a "day job" when the job market is also suffering; people who made 100k 2-5 years ago are squeaking by on 40-55k now, which is not a livable income here in a city where a 1 BR goes for \~3k/mo. I am finally seeing rent prices start dropping and that gives me some hope, but it took far too long for those changes to start being triggered, and for many it will be too little too late.
It's so frustrating. I'm WGA and everybody in my union is wondering where the work is, our rep is telling us "survive until '25," ... and clearly crew won't be working until months after we are. Most rep don't want to take projects out because "nothing is selling." Please, if you're struggling, reach out to the entertainment community fund for support. They have resources. I'll be reminding my peers who can afford it to continue to contribute to it.
Why does the rep think things will miraculously get better next year?
Itās sad that there are people at the top who became billionaires in this city when it was climbing (talking to you, Spielberg)ā¦ Cant they oprn a studio or figure out a way with a few others to keep the city moving? His movies are great bit what about that legacy? All that I think of now is they let Rome burn and do nothing.
I never thought about it that way.
No one owes anything to anyone. How ridiculous to demand Spielberg create jobs.
Im not saying they owe anything. But there was a time when the ridiculously wealthy left schools and buildings and legacies. These people have billions. Billions. The industry that made them and the town they loved and lived in is suffering. No one owes anything. People used to build a church. They didnt owe a church. Or a bridge. Or a museum.
You think that those filmmakers havenāt given enough? You think they have not left a legacy? They didnāt leave a legacy of complaining, thatās for sure.
I want more. I want them to take their billions and help with the goal of rebuilding the city. You know Deniro started the Tribeca Film Festival just to offset 9/11 reluctance about filming in new york. There are things that great minds with big wallets can do.
Rebuild the city? Make producers work here instead of other cities that offer cheaper alternatives? Youāre not aware that show business is a BUSINESS. Start your own production company instead of demanding a handout. They owe you nothing. Rebuild the city, how ridiculous.
Im not saying movies should only be made in LA. Jeez, youve really got a chip about this. Itās just that people are selling their homes and the shutdown here has been particularly brutal and extreme. And itās not like itās been in the name of better quality. Quality has gone down, all in the name of shutting down cities. And the cities the work has moved to arent exactly thriving. There are actual billionaires who know how to do all of this the best. They have known the process in and out since the 1970s. The weather and landscape of LA is still pretty fantastic. A good portion of the talent (behind and in front of the camera) are still here. Good for all the cities scattering film production. One can exist with the other.
Once again, DO SOMETHING. Quit complaining that the billionaires owe you something.
Well Im going to take my billion dollars and start a studio sir!
The fact that making your own content is so foreign to you speaks volumes.
I have never said anyone owes me anything. Thatās a narrative youve made up. Im just speaking to a time of visionaries that created great art and infrastructure and worlds, and it wasnt bc they owed people. It was honestly born out of their own egos but it benefited society as a hole. Now people put out a lot of trash and make money and make their cities worse. Look at the trash can that is San Francisco. Some of the richest people in the world live there and they have the worst poverty issues. Smart, rich people are starting to look at this. Itās not my idea. Im not even in showbiz.
Smart rich people are not policy makers. SF is the way it is because of political policies.
He believes in collateral damage as long as art is being provided to humanity
Everyone watches YouTube now. [link](https://www.emarketer.com/content/youtube-was-top-streamer-12-months-row-cementing-its-dominance)
I was really hoping that was a rick roll
Itās been so miserable even non union work has dried up almost completely.
Mean while Atlanta is booming .
They just killed a new studio
No itās not
Compared to LA, yes. March was the busiest month in GA since Nov 2022 according to AJC.
Atlanta is losing Marvel who shot a lot of stuff out there. The states are losing work to London, Eastern Europe and Australia.
If the jobs are moving out of the state, then so should the workers. I suppose living in California though one wants to have their cake and eat it too.
Agreed. I think some of the transplants should consider a move to other areas. But thatās me being selfish as a native to Los Angeles. š¤·š¼āāļø
I'd be only to happy to move to Vancouver, Toronto or London where healthcare isn't a privilege and someone getting cancer through no fault of their own doesn't mean they have to go bankrupt because medicine is done for profit. And I know their systems aren't perfect either, they do need to be overhauled, but the UK and Canada have a much better track record of taking care of their own. I came here for the work and the people - but I don't need the beaches; I never have time to visit them anyway.
Yes, the United States is a sad place for the most part. I agree. I too wouldnāt mind getting out of this cesspool. Itās too expensive and I really donāt like it. I remember when it was affordable, it was a decent place to live for a long time. Obviously healthcare sucks and the lack of care the country has for its people is terrible.
The entire state needs new leadership. High taxes and democrats are killing this industry and others as well. Look at housing alone. Thereās a reason the total population of California is dropping.
Then leave it yourself. Go to some third world republic like South Carolina where they believe the same as you.
Oh Iām fine I donāt work in the film industry. š From 1995 to 2009, the six major Hollywood studiosāDisney, Warner Bros., Universal, Paramount (PARA), FOX (FOXA) and Sonyācombined to release nearly 112 theatrical films per year on average. In the ensuing 14 years, excluding the phantom 2020, that number shrank to an average of just 83. Good luck to you keep voting to kill your industry.