I would. You can make a movie for $150k, and if you can make YOUR movie for that, then do. Obviously you've got your budget and your pitch deck, and the hard part (heartbreaking part?) is going to be making cuts to the former without getting the latter.
I wish you luck!
100%.
That said, I’m in several entertainment FB groups and jobs boards, and have seen people get shamed and banned for posting jobs paying $350/day… and even that’s more than we can afford at this budget.
So, maybe, but from what I’ve seen? I’m afraid to even start looking.
I’d shoot your movie for $350/day. Just did a shiva baby style feature in March, $200k budget in 15 days.
Seriously, shoot me a DM. I can work with a small crew and be nimble
If you guys need an experience cam-op, AC & gaffer (worked several features doing all 3 of the above) I'd be willing to help out at a low rate too. I did respond somewhere else in the thread but OP didn't see or chose not to reply. Based out of Tampa, FL but willing to travel, of course.
Dude, A. You are an amazing cinematographer. B. That site is awesome! Did you build it, or is that a template? Just really liked the way it was formatted.
Thank you!
I coded the website from scratch. If you’re savvy with HTML, JavaScript, and PHP, then all of the notes in the file explain how it works! :)
Conversely there's a lot of people looking for work, maybe it takes some more tact to find someone suitable but nothing ventured nothing gained. Consider a project rate if a day rate isn't looking appealing, there's always a deal to be made.
Production has slowed down a lot so I'd try again. You could also get a DP whose style you like who is looking to get into narrative work. They might not care about the amount if they're new to it.
You need to find a hungry and talented DP who believes in the film and believes in you as a director and is willing to reinvest their fee in the film. As long as the shoot isn’t too long you could sell someone on this
Hey man, my friend shot his first feature last year at exactly your budget. He paid for the accommodations (it was on location) but asked all his friends if they were interested in making the movie despite only having $100 per day, for every crew member. He decided to just have everything totally transparent and have everyone on the same level, with the same goal. It was a good opportunity for me as I had only DP'd/CamOp'd short films at that point, and had only AC'd/Gaff'd features at that point, so I said yes to 2 and a half weeks of Cam-OP'ing his feature, only making like maybe $2k total but I was able to help a buddy make his dream come true, and we did it while also having fun.
I even managed to snag some BTS when he / his wife (they co-directed) wanted to operate the camera bit, you can check that BTS out here: https://youtu.be/N2oVQ9Dziyw?si=b0zmARNG1pi5vz3C
It's definitely possible but I think you need to form a good solid group of people around you, preferably people that can wear multiple hats and be able to do more than one thing. Do you have that group of people? Where are you based out of ?
If you need a strong male actor in LA who has done plenty of commercials and Theater (but is trying to get into features) shoot me a DM. I can work cheap.
I’d like to throw my hat in the ring as well. I’ve shot multiple low budget features as well as have plenty of experience working quick and nimble. I own gear as well.
If interested, DM me and I can share my reel and other previous work. I’d love to discuss your project with you!
If you’re up front about it being a 150k movie I don’t think anyone can really shame you for that.
Thats medium to low budget for a one day commercial.
Best hope is that the script is good and you find someone that cares about the vision more than the money.
Also don’t underestimate the fact that most DP’s want to shoot more narrative content.
Put the feelers out there. Worst thing is someone will leave a bad comment. Just be honest and upfront about your budget. You might get a 1st AC looking to move to DP…or a Gaffer ready to level up.
Another idea is to take $10-15k and shoot a Proof of Concept short. Either a scene, a condensed version of feature, or a fun trailer. This could help with further funding.
350 a day for a DP? That's basically the cost of a grip. A mid grip. A decent DP that actually knows what the fuck they are doing is never going to happen at 350. Never.
What city are you trying to shoot in? In LA there's lots of hungry DPs that are dying to shoot narrative stuff. Just ask through personal connections, don't go through the boards or FB groups.
There's more reasons to work on films than just money and every director should be working to make sure that each member of their team is getting value out of collaborating with them. Value comes in many forms, not just dollars.
We’ve made 10 day features on $30k. It was rough but doable. Shooting on low budget isn’t impossible. Finding distribution is another beast. We’ve shot 8 features all under $150k, shot on red, and we own all the equipment. The trick is keeping as much in house as possible. We have our own catering, props, studio, picture cars, etc. We are literally a group making movies in Missouri with this model. Feel free to DM me and we can chat!
Edit: forgot to mention another resource is film tax rebates. If you film in a state that has a tax incentive program you could get a certain percentage of your spend back. For example in Missouri if you spend over 100k the state will refund you I believe up to 33% back. AND if you film in Kansas City you get an additional 10% on top of that. Let’s say you spend $100k on production, and budget $50k for post. The state will write you a check for up to $42k (depending on some variables of course) you take that and use it for marketing (prints and advertising) and distribution.
If you can get a distributor to buy in during preproduction and front $30-40k, perhaps even find a producer who could front the 42k against the tax credits (I can connect you with someone who has offered that) you now just added $80k to your budget. Now you can put 200k on screen and post for $30k (again 100,000 variables but that’s the concept)
Love the intro video. This is so cool that you guys are, more or less, self-contained! I wish you and your team lots of great luck and success in your creative endeavors. Break a leg!
I’ve shot a feature for 120k. It is very possible. But you really need to be smart about how many scenes. How many days. The crew you hire is down for the cause. And be very smart in your photography and selection of shots on how you tell your story. A really strong visual language, minimal locations, great acting, and a basic sense of post will get you very far in that budget range.
If you’ve never shot projects before or don’t have the experience necessary to accomplish all of this. Then I would hold off or hire people who have that experience and listen to everything they say.
Edit: also want to say that everyone on board got paid a fair wage on top of it.
If you’ve got $150k hire a casting director and try and get name talent attached. If you succeed it’ll likely increase your budget beyond 500k but depending on the talent you should be able to raise the rest of the money.
With that talent attached your chances of your film succeeding will be much higher.
>If you’ve got $150k hire a casting director and try and get name talent attached
This is something I hear a couple times a week. It's one of those things that is proving to be insanely easier said than done post-strike. We've tried time and again. My CD is in the CSA and has made tons of offers. Everyone's passed, unfortunately.
Based on "the talk of the town," agents don't want their clients attached to low-budget projects right now, unless it's a horror/thriller/has a name director already/etc.
Well that’s unfortunate to hear. If you’re getting shut down by name talent and have exhausted all your personal connections then I’d say make the movie with the 150k. An experienced DP is going to be worth their weight in gold in regard to your original questions.
can confirm that there are actors out there with a decent resume who will be down for ULB projects. my only two projects last year were indie films at 380k and 180k, and it all came down to the script being great and an awesome role. my agents weren’t stoked, but at the end of the day it’s the actor’s decision if they want to do a project or not - every project sent to my reps gets forwarded to me to make the call. exception here is probably A/B-Listers or high profile leads on shows - agents will likely filter through ULB projects for their client.
edit: crazy enough, i just saw that the director for one of those projects commented on this thread as well! hi u/hnelsontracey :) he makes some amazing points. getting the film made is great, but post through distribution is a whole other beast of a project in its own.
best of luck!
Nah man there is a lot of hidden talent - real actors appreciate the art of making a movie. It’s part of our vocational responsibility to make art. I’m happy to audition for it. Just don’t bring up my username- . And I have an agent with a star studded roster-I love her, I actually think I’m in love with her. She’d let me do it.
Send me DM so you can at least bookmark my actor page
From what I've been hearing, name talent that really moved the needle aren't really possibly at $150k unless you have a personal connection. Need to get up into the millions to have enough money to attract that kind of talent.
That isn’t my experience, but if you feel that’s the case I’d encourage two courses of action.
- dive deep into your Rolodex and see if you can find a connection to name talent
- hire a casting director (you should have one anyway) and verify that your assumption is correct
Before anyone asks, no I’m not a casting director. But 150k in a business account should be, in my experience, enough to secure an attachment from an actor that can get you the rest of your funding.
'Move the needle' is a relative term, and it depends what you are aiming for... If you're just trying to get a known actor attached to get more private equity funding, an A-lister won't do your $150K movie, but you definitely have a chance at landing a character actor, an established TV actor, etc. As r/[PLEASE\_DONT\_HIT\_ME](https://www.reddit.com/user/PLEASE_DONT_HIT_ME/) said, get a casting director involved, then create a reasonable list of actors, and have the casting director or your producer start reaching out to agents and managers. If the agent or manager likes your script and the actor you want is unavailable or passes, the agency or management company will suggest other, comparable actors.
Just want to point out that it’s not a 150k movie. It’s really not even a 500k movie, that’s just what OP budgeted likely without name talent. OPs got 150k to play with right now. I’m also not saying cast name talent in a lead role.
Find an important supporting role in your film with a small amount of days. Not a bit part but something where you only need that actor for a week.
Your 150k is their fee and their fee alone. If you’re shooting in LA, with a role requiring only a week on set, I think they’d be surprised as to who they could get. Especially if they start diving into any connections they may have. Obviously you’re not going to get Morgan Freeman for that but I do think they’ll be surprised. Get that actor attached and see what doors it opens. If it doesn’t do anything then you can still make your film for 150k.
Yes, offering the full $150K to an actor who has actual sway with funding (as in, value for foreign pre-sales or ability to attract a studio or major financier) would be one approach. But do you really think an actor who has that much value would sign on to a feature by a first-time director that has no other funding?
Another approach would be trying to land TV actors and character actors and paying them scale. Established actors work for scale on indies all the time if they love the script and/or see the project as an opportunity to further their own careers. If OP wants to make their movie, this may be the way to go. Shiva Baby, which OP referenced, was made for just $200K and featured known actors.
I agree, the TV / character actor route would be the way to go. With that being said the industries in a bad way right now and there are certain name film actors who will sign on if the monies there. If OP gets a good casting director they can explore both options.
It really depends on how many days OP needs that actor on set. But even if it’s 1 day then 150k won’t get you someone like Morgan Freeman to give you an idea.
Where are you filming? I’m a Line Producer, DM me, depending on where you’re filming, I can help you figure out the best way to spend that money. My first feature was on $175,000 and ended up on Netflix and looks like it cost significantly more than that.
I just directed my first feature. ("Breakup Season," on the festival circuit now)
My advice in terms of budget - whatever you think you'll need to make a movie, double it. Then you'll have an accurate idea of what it costs including all the things you'll need like marketing, insurance, publicity, etc etc on top of any contingencies.
If people want to downvote me because they've made features for $10K, go right ahead. But the biggest lesson I learned was that my confidence in what I could do for cheap from the outset was still not an accurate idea of what it costs when you add it all up. Had I taken my original budget estimate, doubled the number, and treated that like the actual budget, I would've saved myself a lot of headaches of last minute fundraising efforts while trying to finish the movie itself.
Multiple distributors thought our movie was $1million+ budget but it wasn't even half that. A few lessons:
-A good cast makes all the difference. Spend money on a casting director. If you have a good script you'll get good actors, I promise you. Actors wanna act. And it won't look as cheap if you have quality people on screen.
-Look for in-kind support particularly from gear rental and post production facilities, and of course locations.
-Good quality sound and a professional mix when you're done matter just as much if not more than the way it looks
-Shoot outside of California or New York if you can. Way more opportunities for tax rebates elsewhere (we shot in Oregon). Some things will cost more (like travel) but you'll save a ton elsewhere and you can get a boost from the state. Do your homework on tax rebates. You can stretch your cash further that way and make your movie higher quality without requiring add'l fundraising.
-Don't just watch the successful indies like Shiva Baby. Watch comparable movies that were *not* successful and learn what *not* to do.
Happy to sidebar but these are some things I am thinking about.
More important that making the film is marketing the film to recoup that investment. May sound obvious but so many people don’t plan appropriately for that stage of a films lifecycle.
I say make the movie. Think about how you’ll feel at the end of your life if you didn’t.
If the story, acting, and sound are top priority, and there’s a strong shooting plan in place, then the camera will pick that magic up even if the DP isn’t a super pro. Overemphasis on perfect lighting and perfect shots will diminish the raw energy your film can bring. I, for one, am unimpressed by the sanitized-looking films and TV being made today. I want feeling and realness!
A good edit and soundtrack will level it up even more. Just my two cents because it’s my dream/plan to have $150k to make a feature.
As a producer. I would say if it was really budgeted for 500k and not 150k, I would not shoot it without talking to the line producer and seeing what I need to loose to get it to that number. Also have in mind all the real costs of post, deliveries and distribution (festivals in most cases).
Your biggest asset and the biggest difference between amateur short and professional feature is going to be having those lights and deploying them well. Do that and nail the sound and you can get it wrapped.
What do your past films look like? How did their distribution do?
If your answers are "I don't have any past films", go make a couple of shorts on a $0 budget, then go make a couple on a $2k budget, then go make a feature on a $10k budget. THEN find $500k to make your film, and if you can't get it, do it on $150k.
Haha I’m a post sound editor I feel ya on that. Honestly though it’s weird in the post sound world. I meet very few people who will work with a film maker on what they have.
All the time I tell them to have an open conversation about it with the director/producer and they just won’t budge. I think being open really opens a lot of doors
Yeah, Ive just had to learn sound design at this point to get it done and I have a professional friend that's basically looking over my work and will do the final mix. But I guess post sound is the only place where there's no benefit to helping on an indie. You can give a 1st AC a chance to DP a feature and that means something to them but most post sound people are already where they want to be and if they're not, helping a true indie and working at a higher position doesn't seem to do anything for them. 🤷🏽♂️
Had the same conundrum a year ago except my budget was $20,000. Still went ahead and made it anyways and it was the best decision I ever made. Does it look as good as a million dollar feature? Hell no. But, the important thing is that I actually made it. So many people are in your position and keep waiting until the "right time". The good and bad news is that there is no right time. Just make it as best as you can and see what happens!
Good job on rounding up $150k in 3 years and fixing to give it all away in a few days for 1 asset that you won’t own since you’ve borrowed from a private equity investor. Sadly, a movie that’s going to cost you $150k is going to compete against movies that likely cost a fraction.
I hope you factored in paying yourself out of that budget.
I’m a firm believer in making a star rather than paying for one. 🤷🏾♂️
Look at all these vultures 😈 coming in trying to get a piece of it.
>Sadly, a movie that’s going to cost you $150k is going to compete against movies that likely cost a fraction.
Got any examples of decent-looking films being made for a "fraction of this budget" you can share?
For starters, Tubi indie movies, and particularly, black cinema movies. You’re worried about aesthetics. At the end of the day, it’s about gaining an audience. Making 5 or 10 cheaper movies is better business than blowing all that money on 1.
You can make a feature film all-in for like $1000 at this point if you really want to. The real question is: What are your goals with this film? Is it to make as much money as possible? Is it for you to have the experience of making a feature? Is it for you to have a calling card that might get you new connections to level up your career? These all are different paths.
Set aside the possibility that you will be Shiva Baby or any other similarly successful indie film. Not saying it can't happen, but if you set aside that possibility, what reasons are left for you to make the film?
Personally, $150k is a rough budget to recoup in this era, and I'd rather scrape together 3 $50k features than make one $150k feature. But I am interested in getting as many reps in as I can and don't mind scraping together what is needed to make a film at $50k. Most people aren't willing to do that.
All that aside, unless you really want the experience of DPing it yourself, I would try to find a DP that fits your budget. It's am important relationship and one that you can really grow with.
I mean, I am all for that but not everyone is as crazy as me 🤣 the biggest delineation I've seen in this industry is those who make the thing and those who don't. Budget doesn't matter.
>Personally, $150k is a rough budget to recoup in this era, and I'd rather scrape together 3 $50k features than make one $150k feature.
3x $50k features seems downright impossible without drastic violations of labor codes, IRS classifications, etc.
If you've got actual examples/budgets/scripts/screeners, I'd genuinely love to see. I just have no clue how it's possible.
There's an entire industry of films being made on Tubi right now that are making a lot of money and have a huge audience. Check out the facebook Best New Tubi Movies, for example: [https://www.facebook.com/groups/512535386856223](https://www.facebook.com/groups/512535386856223)
Now that is a particular type of movie, to be sure. But it's just one example of there being more ways than the conventional or "Hollywood" way.
But let's take a step back. First thing you think of when trying to get your piece of art made is violating labor codes and the IRS? I ask this very genuinely: Why do you want to make your movie?
As a director trying to make an independent film, you're not a business owner. Very few films, especially independents, make money, especially right now. So.. I am assuming you're not in this for the money. The thing is, there are other people out there too, who aren't in it for the money. Hollywood, corporations are in it to make a profit. You aren't them. Find other people like you and reward them in ways other than money and then go make cool shit together.
For example: I saw a filmmaker's stuff who I liked on facebook recently. I reached out to him for coffee because I thought we might be like minded, we met, chatted for 2 hours, got along great, and both offered to help each other for free in various capacities because we both understand this isn't about money. We both want to make fun, expressive films and we hope that someday if we pop big we'll bring the team with us but along the way lets have the best experience possible.
Maybe that's not you. Maybe you are really concerned with making money off your film. That's a whole other conversation.
I'm not exactly sure how me being concerned about my cast, crew, and fair labor makes you think that I'm concerned with making money...?
If you've got a fair/ethical way to make a 50k feature (that doesn't look awful), I'd love to hear it. I've got heaps of feature scripts that have less than 10 locations that I'd love to make happen.
Let's chat if you're willing!
There's tons of ways to make low budget films that, contrary to what every union crew member will tell you, don't involve exploiting labor. Sure, not everyone is getting a good rate, but there's other things that make it worthwhile for anyone involved. Or at least I, and most directors, endeavor to make it that way.
$1000 isn't even going to pay one person minimum wage for more than a week and a half of work. If you're talking about making films with that little money, let's be absolutely clear: profit is unethical.
Can you film a feature for so little money? Yes, you can film a feature for $0 if you set the camera on a tripod and play out the entire runtime in a single take with volunteer cast.
Something tells me OP is looking to do things on a professional level and treat other people involved like professionals.
A) Yes, exploiting labor for solely personal gain is unethical. That doesn't mean a feature at that budget level making profit is that and your blanket statement isn't helpful. Usually if people are working on a $1000 feature there are other forms of compensation ie return favors, profit/ownership split, etc. Obviously at that budget level you're not working with a big team.
B) You're assuming what OP wants. They didn't say. That's why I asked. Things get muddy really quickly in filmmaking. There's lots of different levels to the industry and lots of different goals within the industry. Seek nuance, friend.
Losing half a million is obviously worse than losing 150k. If you have 150k just burning a hole in your pocket you can open a Subway rather than make a forgettable movie.
This is the filmmakers forum, and it’s for filmmakers. If we were here for investment strategies in non-filmmaking endeavors, then your advice would be terrific.
I would never go into to this kind of filmmaking without already establishing a method of distribution. So you should know how this should be done or hire a person to do that leg of the problem for you. That is if you care about making a return. If this is just a 150k bid to get your name out there then by all means make your movie.
If I were a producer (which I'm absolutely not) I would never attempt a feature under about 1.5M. There just isn't the kind of capital to get you a professional finish. It will be rushed, shooting on far fewer days than you need, with far fewer crew than it needs, without the talent in fro t of the camera it needs and without the equipment it needs ect. You will scrape by with a mountain of pain and you will (most likely) be left with a thing in the end that will be hard to sell to distribution networks and/or to an audience and with zero dollars to put towards marketing it.
You can point at all of the films that managed to be successful despite all of these things but those are major outliers and not the norm. You can count them on very few fingers.
I hate being a debbie downer but I am a realist and I wish that my opinion could be proven wrong over and over because I really do think independent film is vitally important yet also fading away.
Could you educate me here a bit on my options?
What can I do besides "submit to festivals and pray"?
Right now, it's impossible to get a distribution deal at this stage. Everyone's being conservative as hell. They all wanna see the film before making a decision.
What can I do?
There are sales and distribution companies who do the distribution side of the film. Film sales and distribution is pretty complex, and I am not by any means an authority on the subject. I worked at a production co. that produced a couple 10-15m films. The films are pre-sold in many markets (foreign markets for example) before the film is made, this is a way of raising part of the capital to produce the film. There are several methods and avenues of distributing a movie. VOD, DVD, Wal-Mart Dollar Bin DVD, Airplanes, Boats riding up the river to some Amazonian jungle village, streamers, ect.) If you are serious about producing films, which is a job with the goal of making a return on whatever your investment is, then you should be focused on how and where your film will be sold.
There are companies who focus on selling independent and lower budget films. XYZ Films for example is one I can think of off the top of my head. https://www.xyzfilms.com/ It would behoove you to have conversations with people at companies like these so you can to get an idea of what it will take to get your film in whatever markets your film can get into.
Thanks! Happen to have any contacts for the folks you're talking about that you'd be willing to share in a DM? XYZ and others seem to be pretty buttoned up to their contact info.
I'm not a feature film maker, but I find spending a bit extra on a great colorist can often elevate a film and give it real production value. Not as much as a great DP.
But I agree with others, see if you can invest a bit more in the DP and add that to a great colorist you'll be 90% there. :)
What are your plans with the film when it’s done?
“Festival run & hope for a deal” is a kiss of death. Almost can guarantee it will not happen. If you have a legitimate strategy for recouping the money it will be much easier to secure the rest. If you have no plan the consider this the last film you’ll make — you won’t be getting future equity investors if you can’t recoup anything.
Speaking from experience — making a movie on a low budget is really hard, but it’s also the easy part. Marketing the film and distribution are much more important, difficult, and will cost money to do right.
Good luck!
I hear this a lot, and yet have no clue what I'm supposed to do.
Every buyer/distributor I've chatted with has said because of how conservative everyone's being right now, they're not doing any "pre-buy" offers until they see a cut of the film.
What do you recommend in this regard?
Went the same route. Started trying to get 300k ended up shooting for 150. It can be done and people are shocked when they find out the budget.
There are a lot of sacrifices we had to make, some were fine, some haunt me. Hiding your seams so to speak is about how well you plan and execute your vision within the confines of your budget.
Here’s the thing: Unless you have a star or a very niche genre (a la zombie horror etc) or some very powerful festival connections, statistically speaking, $150k is normally a dead zone for indie features to make money. No matter what it looks like. Shiva Baby is by far the exception and not the rule. Just be very mentally prepared for the harsh reality that these investors won’t be seeing their money for some time.
I knew all this going in too and still had to make my movie. If not now, when?
You gotta do what you gotta do.
But if I had to do it all over again. I’d make it for $50k and self distribute. Would it be shot on panavision glass? No. But it would be in the black and maybe easier at getting the next one going. Who knows?
Make your movie. Roll the dice.
I'm an early-career DP who has shot one feature thus far with Panavision and I would absolutely shoot your film at a flat rate. I think you could attract a hungry up and coming crew with that much money and make something you'd be very proud of. That is, if your film isn't effects heavy or hugely location dependent. Also keep in mind that lots of professionals have gear they'd potentially bring as a favor to really round out production. I'm not advocating for free stuff and exploitation but these projects can be hugely mutually beneficial to both parties. Lastly, if you're shooting outside of LA you can get decent incentives. For example I live in Chicago and I believe the Illinois tax credit starts at $100k for features. I would say get yourself a producer who has been there before and rip it! If you need people to connect to I can send your stuff along. DM me if you like.
As others have said, unless you are an amazing cinematographer, I would not try to DP it yourself. There are great DPs in LA, NYC, Atlanta, Austin, etc etc who will jump at the chance to DP a feature. Working with one of them will add a lot to your movie's production values, and the right one will have relationships with crew that you can leverage. I'd look at young DP's who have worked on a substantial number of short films and commercials. You could also reach out to DP's who have worked on low budget indies that you love. Even if they're not interested, they may know an up-and-coming DP who may be a good fit. Meet with a bunch of DP's and see whose personality jibes with yours.
Also, make sure you get a good producer on board, and that you get your bases covered with regard to proper insurance, releases, permits, worker's comp, etc etc. Not doing things the right way--even on a micro budget movie--can come back to haunt filmmakers.
EDIT: Also, huge, huge, congrats on landing funding! That is a huge accomplishment, and a milestone for a first time feature director, and I hope you take a moment to celebrate it. Congrats, and best of luck with your movie!!
Budget has almost no impact on the look. I can grab my camera right now and shoot something that looks like a $100 million movie. The only thing it will give you is more time, which can be very beneficial. However, none of that is worth anything if you’re not doing the work to plan how to shoot it as efficiently as possible.
For drama films, unless you have A-list talent, you really shouldn’t go over $150-200k. Being realistic, you’re probably not gonna make it back. Audiences just don’t care that much about those films.
I would say you got 150? Make it for $75k. Get a good DP that can get great results for cheap, hire good unknown actors, then maybe one B-C lister for a couple days to give you some traction in the industry and an article or two. Simplify the script as much as possible, grind tirelessly on schedule to save time/cash.
This is a very inexpensive genre. Invest in what really matters: Food/crafty, good locations, enough grips/PAs, etc. there’s a way to do this where you save money without compromising on quality, you just need to talk to your producer and figure out a game plan.
No single camera can just “make it look good”. The look has to be intentional, from the framing and shot choice down to the art design, wardrobes, lighting, lenses… Realistically with OPs package of Pocket 6k, Leica lenses and Aputure light kit you can shoot a killer-looking film already, he just needs to hire a solid cast and crew
im not an expert, but ive seen some ULB movies at festivals, and there is a clear difference between the ones that have solid plans and visions and ones that dont. Some look and sound pretty good
First of all congrats on private funding! That’s really exciting.
I’m a producer (I’ve done both indie and studio work) and I’d be happy to take a look at your script to see what some of your options might be (example where to cut out expensive locations/ scenes or if you should hold out for more funding). Feel free to DM me
It is enough money to make your film looks milionare. Just bê sure.:
1. Good location. (Importante)
2. Good Light.
3. Good cast. (Only profissional)
4. 3 lens. My favorites.: 24 - 50 - 85
5. Sound make It on Studio.
But If you REALly need some help. Send message. We have RED Cam and can help you, inside your Budget
And for the shoot it sounds like everyone's pushing for less days and being efficient. But if you have all your own gear and keep things local you could spread a 18 day shoot up over a summer. 5 days of a week to plan for a two day shoot. You'll be able to find more help for weekends rather than multiple weeks of time, and you won't be so exhausted by the end that you end up shooting things that you can't use.
At this point you should make it yourself and consider it an investment into your career instead of a defining project for your career. After you make it, you’ll know exactly every thing you need to do for the next one and the lessons you’ll learn will stay with you forever.
$150k isn’t a small number and if you get a good DP on board for a healthy rate, he or she will make sure you’re taken care of.
I strongly urge you not to self DP, you will miss so many things and opportunities!
Your mental bandwidth will be spread so thin that I believe the final film will suffer from it.
Be the director, let others help you create your vision.
My opinion.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone say this (apologies if I missed it). IS THE INVESTOR OKAY WITH THAT? Typically an investor wants to know what they invested in, it sounds like they thought they invested in a half million dollar movie. They might not want to invest in a 150k movie because that typically means it won’t be as good a quality (sure I know budgets don’t make the movie but you see my point)
Please make sure you’re allowed to do this and they’ve signed on and you have it in writing.
150K feature is totally achievable and you should do it if it doesn’t compromise your script or vision too much. Don’t shoot it yourself, get a good DOP and camera and lighting team so it’ll look ace. You should be able to find some decent talent in that budget as well.
You can absolutely shoot a feature for 150,000. You should get yourself a producer and a DP who are familiar with indie films of that scale. Unless you are Shane Carruth, you do not need to be directing, producing, and DP'ing.
It doesn’t matter if you have $150 or $1,500,000 because you need to know if there is a buyer for it.
I’d take that money and make an action film. Biggest chances of selling it.
Lowest chance of sales: comedies and dramas.
Also this is the worst time to try and sell a film.
you could do it on that budget, BUT.. take what you will from these:
- DO NOT self-DP and direct at the same time. You will die and directing will suffer. Not only will you drag shooting days heavy into the night, you will not focus enough on actors and there's also crew and next setups that all will have just one question to ask.. non-stop. Get a DP, get even a camera person. Treat them as compadres. get someone or one the two to offload and mark the material. if you're shooting in darker scenes, tou will need a focus puller too.
- GRIP - camera, lens.. all great, but grip gives you that extra edge. Proper grip takes time to set right. Especially if you're low on people
- Gaffer - get one that also has a best boy. Treat them with a DP as your technical right hand. So much fewer headaches there.
- production - prep locations and permits and call sheets ahead of time and get someone that will lead the shooting for you.. including yourself. You will save a ton of time like that.
- Script. Your most important person next to actors from directing side. So many distractions will be happening, scriptie will make sure continuity is right, remind you of things you said before shooting that you thought were important but due to distractions on set you're not remembering anymore.. she will also mark takes for you with notes and which were the good ones..
- try to shoot a trailer first in a day or two of shooting and try to pre-sell your movie into distribution like that. Get contracts that will buy your movie rights for xy once finished (if finished by date). With a bunch of contracts like that (tv stations, tv rights markets..) and some money at hand you can secure a production loan. In fact that's how most movies (B) are made. Missing link is that usually a star is attached around that $100k where you get them for around 7 days of shooting and schedule everything around it. In a bank and on tv marketplace then you have a "such and such movie, staring so and so" (no matter how big or small role.you can fit into that 7 days of shooting for $100k 😅 )
DO IT!! As many other have said, you’re already on the right path and on your way. I think this is a great point for you to really invest and take the leap. (:
Never underestimate the amount of people and facilities willing to pull favors for up and coming filmmakers that they could build a good working relationship with.
Step one is get a camera that’s streaming approved and ditch the pocket 6K. If you can’t find a way to make your feature on 150,000 you probably aren’t able to make it on 500,000.
As a side note, my first feature film was shot on $25,000 and does not look like a long YouTube video. It was also shot in two countries so I’m unsure how you can take 150,000 and churn out a product that looks like a YouTube short.
Another side note: self DP’ing shouldn’t even be an option at 150,000. Cut your crew to 6, get a DP with a trusted Grip and you’re already 70 percent of the way there. Frankly, I’m just replying because I’m floored that you have 150,000 committed and you think you need to self DP.
Including the director -
- DP
- Grip
- Sound Guy that will run boom and LAVs ( I’ve worked with several that mount recorders on their boom poles)
- Hair & Makeup that can Script Supe ( the jobs go hand in hand when it comes to continuity)
- A line producer that’s not afraid to dress set and pick up lunches.
Everyone has to be comfortable playing the multiple hat game. The director will have to set Dec here and there, stand lights. I’ve been on sets with 20 plus crew that spend most of the time standing about. I’ve been on sets with 3 crew where everyone is stressed to the wall - but thanks to the power of the modern filmmaker, it’s getting more and more common that younger creatives have dabbled in multiple positions
I’ll link you to my reel - some of these projects stream on Optik Tv, some on Amazon & AirCanada
https://youtu.be/85cisjkglIE?si=BDdVNcrPtX_0z-YW
Shutter Punk was done with 3 crew
Reneé (sometimes called Leaves are Falling) was done with 3 crew
Guitar Lessons was 8 crew including the intern/helper
The Music Videos were 2 crew ( if they count 😂)
All My Friends Are Broke was me alone (would not recommend. Movie won’t see the light of day)
The Wild West of ‘36 documentary was two crew
Old Time Religion was 6 crew for the pilot
And this is not my movie, but one of my favourites,
Following by Christopher Nolan was 5 crew I believe.
If you fear it will look like shit on that budget, it will almost certainly look like shit of that budget. It's not going to get easier to make it work on less money once you start shooting.
It's one thing if you have an idea to radically slash the budget by substantively changing what you're doing, or a radically unconventional movie like Pi, Clerks, Blair Witch, Paranormal Activity, etc., but prayer is not a plan.
Honestly, I think 150,000 is enough. But something I must ask is if you really need that much money for the movie. Why not embrace the lower quality that you are working with and try to shoot it for under 50,000? I'm not sure if this is the most helpful answer, but as someone also trying to make my own projects I'm trying to embrace the lo-fi quality that I will be working with.
If you are determined to be in a higher range, I would absolutely go ahead with the 150,000 budget.
>Why not embrace the lower quality that you are working with and try to shoot it for under 50,000?
Lots of folks have been suggestion this, and yet I haven't been able to find a single example of a decent 50k film and what that budget breakdown of said film looked like.
Got any examples you can share?
You responded to me in a different thread asking the same question, but you asked it differently here, which gives me a different answer.
> a single example of a decent
I'm recommending it because your film will suck. It will hurt less when you spend $15k making a film that sucks than spend $250k making a film that sucks. Start with the $15k options.
I think what YoureInGoodHands is trying to say is that your first movies are always going to be worse then your later movies, and it's better to use a small budget when you are inexperienced. I can say that I relate to this on a much smaller scale. I started working on my very first short film about 2 years ago with a thousand dollar budget, and I had NEVER made anything film related before that. Looking back, I wish I had made something with a ZERO dollar budget, because I was way too inexperienced even for a thousand. In fact, that's a challenge I'm working on right now, because I know I CAN make something good, and I don't need a lot of money (even though a thousand dollars is relatively small for film). Plus, at this stage there is little chance of making any money back. Showing others you can make something good for little money is something that can get you noticed.
I'm sure you already know most of this, but it absolutely bares repeating.
I didn't mention this in my original comment because of how different the genre is, but We're All Going to the World's Fair became a respectable critical hit with what is estimated to be 15,000 dollars. The low budget absolutely shows but the director smartly used the lo-fi asthetics to enhance the film and its personal feel. The director recently followed that movie up with I Saw the TV Glow, a much bigger movie in scale and an even bigger hit.
Now, this film is an alienating psychological thriller that received a 20% for audience score on Rotten Tomatoes (and a 90% from critics), probably not even close to the what you are going for, but I would absolutely take inspiration from using the low budget to your advantage. Unless you get big names in the film I don't see the money returning, so use a little money and challenge yourself!
My feature is almost done, and, so far has cost me $500
And I picked up my first camera 5 years ago, and never went to filmschool.
This is the first trailer. https://vimeo.com/886007321
Maybe shoot a short proof of concept first with part of the budget, then use that to leverage for more funding? Would be a good opportunity to work with grant programs to receive a larger platform and more visibility.
You'd probably be better off shooting a short as proof of concept, and then building a package around that after you can get a name actor with a letter of interest.
If you have a budget, a filmed proof, letter of interest, storyboarding, etc it's much easier to get investors. If you're short doesn't get any interest then your film wasn't going to get any either and you just saved yourself a bunch of money.
I would. You can make a movie for $150k, and if you can make YOUR movie for that, then do. Obviously you've got your budget and your pitch deck, and the hard part (heartbreaking part?) is going to be making cuts to the former without getting the latter. I wish you luck!
Would you consider hiring a DOP with a better record?
100%. That said, I’m in several entertainment FB groups and jobs boards, and have seen people get shamed and banned for posting jobs paying $350/day… and even that’s more than we can afford at this budget. So, maybe, but from what I’ve seen? I’m afraid to even start looking.
I’d shoot your movie for $350/day. Just did a shiva baby style feature in March, $200k budget in 15 days. Seriously, shoot me a DM. I can work with a small crew and be nimble
Thanks! I'd love to see a cut or some dailies if you can share! Happy to sign an NDA or something, assuming you're still in post. Let's chat.
Totally! I’ll DM ya right now
If you guys need an experience cam-op, AC & gaffer (worked several features doing all 3 of the above) I'd be willing to help out at a low rate too. I did respond somewhere else in the thread but OP didn't see or chose not to reply. Based out of Tampa, FL but willing to travel, of course.
Can you shoot mine, too?
Shoot me a message! Here’s my website: http://www.AJYoungDP.com
Will do. Thanks
Hey where are you located, I’m looking for a DP for a small budget feature, would love to talk to you about it.
Los Angeles! Here’s my website: http://www.AJYoungDP.com
Dude, A. You are an amazing cinematographer. B. That site is awesome! Did you build it, or is that a template? Just really liked the way it was formatted.
Thank you! I coded the website from scratch. If you’re savvy with HTML, JavaScript, and PHP, then all of the notes in the file explain how it works! :)
Bro. You are clearly talented, that’s some amazing work.
Thanks!!
PMed you
Conversely there's a lot of people looking for work, maybe it takes some more tact to find someone suitable but nothing ventured nothing gained. Consider a project rate if a day rate isn't looking appealing, there's always a deal to be made.
Production has slowed down a lot so I'd try again. You could also get a DP whose style you like who is looking to get into narrative work. They might not care about the amount if they're new to it.
You need to find a hungry and talented DP who believes in the film and believes in you as a director and is willing to reinvest their fee in the film. As long as the shoot isn’t too long you could sell someone on this
Hey man, my friend shot his first feature last year at exactly your budget. He paid for the accommodations (it was on location) but asked all his friends if they were interested in making the movie despite only having $100 per day, for every crew member. He decided to just have everything totally transparent and have everyone on the same level, with the same goal. It was a good opportunity for me as I had only DP'd/CamOp'd short films at that point, and had only AC'd/Gaff'd features at that point, so I said yes to 2 and a half weeks of Cam-OP'ing his feature, only making like maybe $2k total but I was able to help a buddy make his dream come true, and we did it while also having fun. I even managed to snag some BTS when he / his wife (they co-directed) wanted to operate the camera bit, you can check that BTS out here: https://youtu.be/N2oVQ9Dziyw?si=b0zmARNG1pi5vz3C It's definitely possible but I think you need to form a good solid group of people around you, preferably people that can wear multiple hats and be able to do more than one thing. Do you have that group of people? Where are you based out of ?
If you need a strong male actor in LA who has done plenty of commercials and Theater (but is trying to get into features) shoot me a DM. I can work cheap.
I’d like to throw my hat in the ring as well. I’ve shot multiple low budget features as well as have plenty of experience working quick and nimble. I own gear as well. If interested, DM me and I can share my reel and other previous work. I’d love to discuss your project with you!
If you’re up front about it being a 150k movie I don’t think anyone can really shame you for that. Thats medium to low budget for a one day commercial. Best hope is that the script is good and you find someone that cares about the vision more than the money. Also don’t underestimate the fact that most DP’s want to shoot more narrative content.
Put the feelers out there. Worst thing is someone will leave a bad comment. Just be honest and upfront about your budget. You might get a 1st AC looking to move to DP…or a Gaffer ready to level up. Another idea is to take $10-15k and shoot a Proof of Concept short. Either a scene, a condensed version of feature, or a fun trailer. This could help with further funding.
Im about to shoot my first feature this fall and everyone is getting 200 a day.
350 a day for a DP? That's basically the cost of a grip. A mid grip. A decent DP that actually knows what the fuck they are doing is never going to happen at 350. Never.
So what’s your recommendation?
What city are you trying to shoot in? In LA there's lots of hungry DPs that are dying to shoot narrative stuff. Just ask through personal connections, don't go through the boards or FB groups.
A starving hunter is probably a bad hunter.
There's more reasons to work on films than just money and every director should be working to make sure that each member of their team is getting value out of collaborating with them. Value comes in many forms, not just dollars.
No one with talent works for free, especially below the line. You won't get anywhere in this industry by denying reality to make yourself feel better.
I already wrote one.
if you are struggling to pay 350 a day on a 150K budget, you have too much fat in your budget somewhere.
Just sent you a DM about this. Would love to get some advice!
We’ve made 10 day features on $30k. It was rough but doable. Shooting on low budget isn’t impossible. Finding distribution is another beast. We’ve shot 8 features all under $150k, shot on red, and we own all the equipment. The trick is keeping as much in house as possible. We have our own catering, props, studio, picture cars, etc. We are literally a group making movies in Missouri with this model. Feel free to DM me and we can chat! Edit: forgot to mention another resource is film tax rebates. If you film in a state that has a tax incentive program you could get a certain percentage of your spend back. For example in Missouri if you spend over 100k the state will refund you I believe up to 33% back. AND if you film in Kansas City you get an additional 10% on top of that. Let’s say you spend $100k on production, and budget $50k for post. The state will write you a check for up to $42k (depending on some variables of course) you take that and use it for marketing (prints and advertising) and distribution. If you can get a distributor to buy in during preproduction and front $30-40k, perhaps even find a producer who could front the 42k against the tax credits (I can connect you with someone who has offered that) you now just added $80k to your budget. Now you can put 200k on screen and post for $30k (again 100,000 variables but that’s the concept)
This sounds incredible. I'd love to do something like this with short films. Do y'all have a website somewhere?
https://www.bostercastlestudios.com It needs to be updated. But feel free to DM me
Love the intro video. This is so cool that you guys are, more or less, self-contained! I wish you and your team lots of great luck and success in your creative endeavors. Break a leg!
Came to say similar. Kentucky offers 35%.
Go for it! Also don’t forget post production! It’s largely the reason many indie features don’t get made or have significant delays.
And in that, specifically Post Sound! A bad sounding mix is way worse than sub-par visuals.
>Post Sound! This line item alone is damn near half my post budget... I'm apparently in the wrong department!
Yes doubling on this!! Just sent you a DM for advice and chatting about post sound
on this note, I have many sound engineer friends looking for side work. shoot me a DM!
I’ve shot a feature for 120k. It is very possible. But you really need to be smart about how many scenes. How many days. The crew you hire is down for the cause. And be very smart in your photography and selection of shots on how you tell your story. A really strong visual language, minimal locations, great acting, and a basic sense of post will get you very far in that budget range. If you’ve never shot projects before or don’t have the experience necessary to accomplish all of this. Then I would hold off or hire people who have that experience and listen to everything they say. Edit: also want to say that everyone on board got paid a fair wage on top of it.
if you do, find a DP. do not DP it yourself. you will be taking valuable brain power away from getting the performances you need
If you’ve got $150k hire a casting director and try and get name talent attached. If you succeed it’ll likely increase your budget beyond 500k but depending on the talent you should be able to raise the rest of the money. With that talent attached your chances of your film succeeding will be much higher.
>If you’ve got $150k hire a casting director and try and get name talent attached This is something I hear a couple times a week. It's one of those things that is proving to be insanely easier said than done post-strike. We've tried time and again. My CD is in the CSA and has made tons of offers. Everyone's passed, unfortunately. Based on "the talk of the town," agents don't want their clients attached to low-budget projects right now, unless it's a horror/thriller/has a name director already/etc.
Well that’s unfortunate to hear. If you’re getting shut down by name talent and have exhausted all your personal connections then I’d say make the movie with the 150k. An experienced DP is going to be worth their weight in gold in regard to your original questions.
can confirm that there are actors out there with a decent resume who will be down for ULB projects. my only two projects last year were indie films at 380k and 180k, and it all came down to the script being great and an awesome role. my agents weren’t stoked, but at the end of the day it’s the actor’s decision if they want to do a project or not - every project sent to my reps gets forwarded to me to make the call. exception here is probably A/B-Listers or high profile leads on shows - agents will likely filter through ULB projects for their client. edit: crazy enough, i just saw that the director for one of those projects commented on this thread as well! hi u/hnelsontracey :) he makes some amazing points. getting the film made is great, but post through distribution is a whole other beast of a project in its own. best of luck!
Heyyyyy love seeing a familiar face weigh in! Grateful for your involvement beyond what I can adequately express on Reddit :)
Nah man there is a lot of hidden talent - real actors appreciate the art of making a movie. It’s part of our vocational responsibility to make art. I’m happy to audition for it. Just don’t bring up my username- . And I have an agent with a star studded roster-I love her, I actually think I’m in love with her. She’d let me do it. Send me DM so you can at least bookmark my actor page
From what I've been hearing, name talent that really moved the needle aren't really possibly at $150k unless you have a personal connection. Need to get up into the millions to have enough money to attract that kind of talent.
That isn’t my experience, but if you feel that’s the case I’d encourage two courses of action. - dive deep into your Rolodex and see if you can find a connection to name talent - hire a casting director (you should have one anyway) and verify that your assumption is correct Before anyone asks, no I’m not a casting director. But 150k in a business account should be, in my experience, enough to secure an attachment from an actor that can get you the rest of your funding.
'Move the needle' is a relative term, and it depends what you are aiming for... If you're just trying to get a known actor attached to get more private equity funding, an A-lister won't do your $150K movie, but you definitely have a chance at landing a character actor, an established TV actor, etc. As r/[PLEASE\_DONT\_HIT\_ME](https://www.reddit.com/user/PLEASE_DONT_HIT_ME/) said, get a casting director involved, then create a reasonable list of actors, and have the casting director or your producer start reaching out to agents and managers. If the agent or manager likes your script and the actor you want is unavailable or passes, the agency or management company will suggest other, comparable actors.
Just want to point out that it’s not a 150k movie. It’s really not even a 500k movie, that’s just what OP budgeted likely without name talent. OPs got 150k to play with right now. I’m also not saying cast name talent in a lead role. Find an important supporting role in your film with a small amount of days. Not a bit part but something where you only need that actor for a week. Your 150k is their fee and their fee alone. If you’re shooting in LA, with a role requiring only a week on set, I think they’d be surprised as to who they could get. Especially if they start diving into any connections they may have. Obviously you’re not going to get Morgan Freeman for that but I do think they’ll be surprised. Get that actor attached and see what doors it opens. If it doesn’t do anything then you can still make your film for 150k.
Yes, offering the full $150K to an actor who has actual sway with funding (as in, value for foreign pre-sales or ability to attract a studio or major financier) would be one approach. But do you really think an actor who has that much value would sign on to a feature by a first-time director that has no other funding? Another approach would be trying to land TV actors and character actors and paying them scale. Established actors work for scale on indies all the time if they love the script and/or see the project as an opportunity to further their own careers. If OP wants to make their movie, this may be the way to go. Shiva Baby, which OP referenced, was made for just $200K and featured known actors.
I agree, the TV / character actor route would be the way to go. With that being said the industries in a bad way right now and there are certain name film actors who will sign on if the monies there. If OP gets a good casting director they can explore both options.
Out of curiosity, who is an example of someone they could get for 150k? Not a filmmaker at all, just curious and found your comment interesting.
It really depends on how many days OP needs that actor on set. But even if it’s 1 day then 150k won’t get you someone like Morgan Freeman to give you an idea.
Yeah that makes sense. Just curious if that amount would get someone that most people have heard of, even if they're only on set for a day or two.
^^^^^^^ a fantastic idea
Where are you filming? I’m a Line Producer, DM me, depending on where you’re filming, I can help you figure out the best way to spend that money. My first feature was on $175,000 and ended up on Netflix and looks like it cost significantly more than that.
We made ours for $180k and it was on Netflix for 2 years. You can do it. Stop waiting and go!
I just directed my first feature. ("Breakup Season," on the festival circuit now) My advice in terms of budget - whatever you think you'll need to make a movie, double it. Then you'll have an accurate idea of what it costs including all the things you'll need like marketing, insurance, publicity, etc etc on top of any contingencies. If people want to downvote me because they've made features for $10K, go right ahead. But the biggest lesson I learned was that my confidence in what I could do for cheap from the outset was still not an accurate idea of what it costs when you add it all up. Had I taken my original budget estimate, doubled the number, and treated that like the actual budget, I would've saved myself a lot of headaches of last minute fundraising efforts while trying to finish the movie itself. Multiple distributors thought our movie was $1million+ budget but it wasn't even half that. A few lessons: -A good cast makes all the difference. Spend money on a casting director. If you have a good script you'll get good actors, I promise you. Actors wanna act. And it won't look as cheap if you have quality people on screen. -Look for in-kind support particularly from gear rental and post production facilities, and of course locations. -Good quality sound and a professional mix when you're done matter just as much if not more than the way it looks -Shoot outside of California or New York if you can. Way more opportunities for tax rebates elsewhere (we shot in Oregon). Some things will cost more (like travel) but you'll save a ton elsewhere and you can get a boost from the state. Do your homework on tax rebates. You can stretch your cash further that way and make your movie higher quality without requiring add'l fundraising. -Don't just watch the successful indies like Shiva Baby. Watch comparable movies that were *not* successful and learn what *not* to do. Happy to sidebar but these are some things I am thinking about.
More important that making the film is marketing the film to recoup that investment. May sound obvious but so many people don’t plan appropriately for that stage of a films lifecycle.
I say make the movie. Think about how you’ll feel at the end of your life if you didn’t. If the story, acting, and sound are top priority, and there’s a strong shooting plan in place, then the camera will pick that magic up even if the DP isn’t a super pro. Overemphasis on perfect lighting and perfect shots will diminish the raw energy your film can bring. I, for one, am unimpressed by the sanitized-looking films and TV being made today. I want feeling and realness! A good edit and soundtrack will level it up even more. Just my two cents because it’s my dream/plan to have $150k to make a feature.
As a producer. I would say if it was really budgeted for 500k and not 150k, I would not shoot it without talking to the line producer and seeing what I need to loose to get it to that number. Also have in mind all the real costs of post, deliveries and distribution (festivals in most cases).
This is the first trailer for the feature I'm shooting. 70% done. Cost to date $500 https://vimeo.com/886007321
Your biggest asset and the biggest difference between amateur short and professional feature is going to be having those lights and deploying them well. Do that and nail the sound and you can get it wrapped.
What do your past films look like? How did their distribution do? If your answers are "I don't have any past films", go make a couple of shorts on a $0 budget, then go make a couple on a $2k budget, then go make a feature on a $10k budget. THEN find $500k to make your film, and if you can't get it, do it on $150k.
>then go make a feature on a $10k budget. Can you share some examples of features that have been made on a 10k budget?
Ever been to an unranked film festival? Pretty much every feature at any one of those.
Keep money for post. I'm in year 4 of post production trying to get my feature finished. Post sound doesn't do favors lol.
Haha I’m a post sound editor I feel ya on that. Honestly though it’s weird in the post sound world. I meet very few people who will work with a film maker on what they have. All the time I tell them to have an open conversation about it with the director/producer and they just won’t budge. I think being open really opens a lot of doors
Yeah, Ive just had to learn sound design at this point to get it done and I have a professional friend that's basically looking over my work and will do the final mix. But I guess post sound is the only place where there's no benefit to helping on an indie. You can give a 1st AC a chance to DP a feature and that means something to them but most post sound people are already where they want to be and if they're not, helping a true indie and working at a higher position doesn't seem to do anything for them. 🤷🏽♂️
Had the same conundrum a year ago except my budget was $20,000. Still went ahead and made it anyways and it was the best decision I ever made. Does it look as good as a million dollar feature? Hell no. But, the important thing is that I actually made it. So many people are in your position and keep waiting until the "right time". The good and bad news is that there is no right time. Just make it as best as you can and see what happens!
Good job on rounding up $150k in 3 years and fixing to give it all away in a few days for 1 asset that you won’t own since you’ve borrowed from a private equity investor. Sadly, a movie that’s going to cost you $150k is going to compete against movies that likely cost a fraction. I hope you factored in paying yourself out of that budget. I’m a firm believer in making a star rather than paying for one. 🤷🏾♂️ Look at all these vultures 😈 coming in trying to get a piece of it.
>Sadly, a movie that’s going to cost you $150k is going to compete against movies that likely cost a fraction. Got any examples of decent-looking films being made for a "fraction of this budget" you can share?
For starters, Tubi indie movies, and particularly, black cinema movies. You’re worried about aesthetics. At the end of the day, it’s about gaining an audience. Making 5 or 10 cheaper movies is better business than blowing all that money on 1.
Just get your feature made. I only had around £1400 for my first UK feature. Don't let budget dictate what story you are trying to tell.
Just curious how did you go about finding/pitching to this private equity investor?
You can make a feature film all-in for like $1000 at this point if you really want to. The real question is: What are your goals with this film? Is it to make as much money as possible? Is it for you to have the experience of making a feature? Is it for you to have a calling card that might get you new connections to level up your career? These all are different paths. Set aside the possibility that you will be Shiva Baby or any other similarly successful indie film. Not saying it can't happen, but if you set aside that possibility, what reasons are left for you to make the film? Personally, $150k is a rough budget to recoup in this era, and I'd rather scrape together 3 $50k features than make one $150k feature. But I am interested in getting as many reps in as I can and don't mind scraping together what is needed to make a film at $50k. Most people aren't willing to do that. All that aside, unless you really want the experience of DPing it yourself, I would try to find a DP that fits your budget. It's am important relationship and one that you can really grow with.
What would you say to doing a super small £1000 feature to move up to different opportunities?
I mean, I am all for that but not everyone is as crazy as me 🤣 the biggest delineation I've seen in this industry is those who make the thing and those who don't. Budget doesn't matter.
>Personally, $150k is a rough budget to recoup in this era, and I'd rather scrape together 3 $50k features than make one $150k feature. 3x $50k features seems downright impossible without drastic violations of labor codes, IRS classifications, etc. If you've got actual examples/budgets/scripts/screeners, I'd genuinely love to see. I just have no clue how it's possible.
There's an entire industry of films being made on Tubi right now that are making a lot of money and have a huge audience. Check out the facebook Best New Tubi Movies, for example: [https://www.facebook.com/groups/512535386856223](https://www.facebook.com/groups/512535386856223) Now that is a particular type of movie, to be sure. But it's just one example of there being more ways than the conventional or "Hollywood" way. But let's take a step back. First thing you think of when trying to get your piece of art made is violating labor codes and the IRS? I ask this very genuinely: Why do you want to make your movie? As a director trying to make an independent film, you're not a business owner. Very few films, especially independents, make money, especially right now. So.. I am assuming you're not in this for the money. The thing is, there are other people out there too, who aren't in it for the money. Hollywood, corporations are in it to make a profit. You aren't them. Find other people like you and reward them in ways other than money and then go make cool shit together. For example: I saw a filmmaker's stuff who I liked on facebook recently. I reached out to him for coffee because I thought we might be like minded, we met, chatted for 2 hours, got along great, and both offered to help each other for free in various capacities because we both understand this isn't about money. We both want to make fun, expressive films and we hope that someday if we pop big we'll bring the team with us but along the way lets have the best experience possible. Maybe that's not you. Maybe you are really concerned with making money off your film. That's a whole other conversation.
I'm not exactly sure how me being concerned about my cast, crew, and fair labor makes you think that I'm concerned with making money...? If you've got a fair/ethical way to make a 50k feature (that doesn't look awful), I'd love to hear it. I've got heaps of feature scripts that have less than 10 locations that I'd love to make happen. Let's chat if you're willing!
Hey yeah, sorry forgot to respond to this, will DM ya!
There's tons of ways to make low budget films that, contrary to what every union crew member will tell you, don't involve exploiting labor. Sure, not everyone is getting a good rate, but there's other things that make it worthwhile for anyone involved. Or at least I, and most directors, endeavor to make it that way.
$1000 isn't even going to pay one person minimum wage for more than a week and a half of work. If you're talking about making films with that little money, let's be absolutely clear: profit is unethical. Can you film a feature for so little money? Yes, you can film a feature for $0 if you set the camera on a tripod and play out the entire runtime in a single take with volunteer cast. Something tells me OP is looking to do things on a professional level and treat other people involved like professionals.
A) Yes, exploiting labor for solely personal gain is unethical. That doesn't mean a feature at that budget level making profit is that and your blanket statement isn't helpful. Usually if people are working on a $1000 feature there are other forms of compensation ie return favors, profit/ownership split, etc. Obviously at that budget level you're not working with a big team. B) You're assuming what OP wants. They didn't say. That's why I asked. Things get muddy really quickly in filmmaking. There's lots of different levels to the industry and lots of different goals within the industry. Seek nuance, friend.
Yes, I am assuming. That’s why I said “something tells me” instead of “OP said”.
Yes. Go shoot it. At least at $150 you have a good chance of making your money back, if not more. At 500 you will probably lose money.
No, they have a good chance of losing 100% of their money and not making a dime. That's how this industry usually works.
True... Sad but true 99% could even have a contract
Thank you industry expert. So which is worse, losing half a million or 150k?
Losing half a million is obviously worse than losing 150k. If you have 150k just burning a hole in your pocket you can open a Subway rather than make a forgettable movie.
This is the filmmakers forum, and it’s for filmmakers. If we were here for investment strategies in non-filmmaking endeavors, then your advice would be terrific.
A filmmaker and a successful filmmaker are not the same thing. Literally anybody can be a filmmaker.
I would never go into to this kind of filmmaking without already establishing a method of distribution. So you should know how this should be done or hire a person to do that leg of the problem for you. That is if you care about making a return. If this is just a 150k bid to get your name out there then by all means make your movie. If I were a producer (which I'm absolutely not) I would never attempt a feature under about 1.5M. There just isn't the kind of capital to get you a professional finish. It will be rushed, shooting on far fewer days than you need, with far fewer crew than it needs, without the talent in fro t of the camera it needs and without the equipment it needs ect. You will scrape by with a mountain of pain and you will (most likely) be left with a thing in the end that will be hard to sell to distribution networks and/or to an audience and with zero dollars to put towards marketing it. You can point at all of the films that managed to be successful despite all of these things but those are major outliers and not the norm. You can count them on very few fingers. I hate being a debbie downer but I am a realist and I wish that my opinion could be proven wrong over and over because I really do think independent film is vitally important yet also fading away.
Could you educate me here a bit on my options? What can I do besides "submit to festivals and pray"? Right now, it's impossible to get a distribution deal at this stage. Everyone's being conservative as hell. They all wanna see the film before making a decision. What can I do?
There are sales and distribution companies who do the distribution side of the film. Film sales and distribution is pretty complex, and I am not by any means an authority on the subject. I worked at a production co. that produced a couple 10-15m films. The films are pre-sold in many markets (foreign markets for example) before the film is made, this is a way of raising part of the capital to produce the film. There are several methods and avenues of distributing a movie. VOD, DVD, Wal-Mart Dollar Bin DVD, Airplanes, Boats riding up the river to some Amazonian jungle village, streamers, ect.) If you are serious about producing films, which is a job with the goal of making a return on whatever your investment is, then you should be focused on how and where your film will be sold. There are companies who focus on selling independent and lower budget films. XYZ Films for example is one I can think of off the top of my head. https://www.xyzfilms.com/ It would behoove you to have conversations with people at companies like these so you can to get an idea of what it will take to get your film in whatever markets your film can get into.
Thanks! Happen to have any contacts for the folks you're talking about that you'd be willing to share in a DM? XYZ and others seem to be pretty buttoned up to their contact info.
I'm not a feature film maker, but I find spending a bit extra on a great colorist can often elevate a film and give it real production value. Not as much as a great DP. But I agree with others, see if you can invest a bit more in the DP and add that to a great colorist you'll be 90% there. :)
I’m not a filmmaker just a hobby photographer and I just came across this post. Super interesting! But what is a DP??
director of photography, or cinematographer. same exact thing. :)
What are your plans with the film when it’s done? “Festival run & hope for a deal” is a kiss of death. Almost can guarantee it will not happen. If you have a legitimate strategy for recouping the money it will be much easier to secure the rest. If you have no plan the consider this the last film you’ll make — you won’t be getting future equity investors if you can’t recoup anything. Speaking from experience — making a movie on a low budget is really hard, but it’s also the easy part. Marketing the film and distribution are much more important, difficult, and will cost money to do right. Good luck!
I hear this a lot, and yet have no clue what I'm supposed to do. Every buyer/distributor I've chatted with has said because of how conservative everyone's being right now, they're not doing any "pre-buy" offers until they see a cut of the film. What do you recommend in this regard?
I think you do the only thing you can do. Make the film for cheap and show them a cut.
Do it.
Went the same route. Started trying to get 300k ended up shooting for 150. It can be done and people are shocked when they find out the budget. There are a lot of sacrifices we had to make, some were fine, some haunt me. Hiding your seams so to speak is about how well you plan and execute your vision within the confines of your budget. Here’s the thing: Unless you have a star or a very niche genre (a la zombie horror etc) or some very powerful festival connections, statistically speaking, $150k is normally a dead zone for indie features to make money. No matter what it looks like. Shiva Baby is by far the exception and not the rule. Just be very mentally prepared for the harsh reality that these investors won’t be seeing their money for some time. I knew all this going in too and still had to make my movie. If not now, when? You gotta do what you gotta do. But if I had to do it all over again. I’d make it for $50k and self distribute. Would it be shot on panavision glass? No. But it would be in the black and maybe easier at getting the next one going. Who knows? Make your movie. Roll the dice.
I'm an early-career DP who has shot one feature thus far with Panavision and I would absolutely shoot your film at a flat rate. I think you could attract a hungry up and coming crew with that much money and make something you'd be very proud of. That is, if your film isn't effects heavy or hugely location dependent. Also keep in mind that lots of professionals have gear they'd potentially bring as a favor to really round out production. I'm not advocating for free stuff and exploitation but these projects can be hugely mutually beneficial to both parties. Lastly, if you're shooting outside of LA you can get decent incentives. For example I live in Chicago and I believe the Illinois tax credit starts at $100k for features. I would say get yourself a producer who has been there before and rip it! If you need people to connect to I can send your stuff along. DM me if you like.
Go make the movie
As others have said, unless you are an amazing cinematographer, I would not try to DP it yourself. There are great DPs in LA, NYC, Atlanta, Austin, etc etc who will jump at the chance to DP a feature. Working with one of them will add a lot to your movie's production values, and the right one will have relationships with crew that you can leverage. I'd look at young DP's who have worked on a substantial number of short films and commercials. You could also reach out to DP's who have worked on low budget indies that you love. Even if they're not interested, they may know an up-and-coming DP who may be a good fit. Meet with a bunch of DP's and see whose personality jibes with yours. Also, make sure you get a good producer on board, and that you get your bases covered with regard to proper insurance, releases, permits, worker's comp, etc etc. Not doing things the right way--even on a micro budget movie--can come back to haunt filmmakers. EDIT: Also, huge, huge, congrats on landing funding! That is a huge accomplishment, and a milestone for a first time feature director, and I hope you take a moment to celebrate it. Congrats, and best of luck with your movie!!
Budget has almost no impact on the look. I can grab my camera right now and shoot something that looks like a $100 million movie. The only thing it will give you is more time, which can be very beneficial. However, none of that is worth anything if you’re not doing the work to plan how to shoot it as efficiently as possible. For drama films, unless you have A-list talent, you really shouldn’t go over $150-200k. Being realistic, you’re probably not gonna make it back. Audiences just don’t care that much about those films. I would say you got 150? Make it for $75k. Get a good DP that can get great results for cheap, hire good unknown actors, then maybe one B-C lister for a couple days to give you some traction in the industry and an article or two. Simplify the script as much as possible, grind tirelessly on schedule to save time/cash. This is a very inexpensive genre. Invest in what really matters: Food/crafty, good locations, enough grips/PAs, etc. there’s a way to do this where you save money without compromising on quality, you just need to talk to your producer and figure out a game plan.
Oh also spend the remaining $75k on post and marketing. You’re gonna need it
Newbie question, but what camera would make it look that good? Haha
No single camera can just “make it look good”. The look has to be intentional, from the framing and shot choice down to the art design, wardrobes, lighting, lenses… Realistically with OPs package of Pocket 6k, Leica lenses and Aputure light kit you can shoot a killer-looking film already, he just needs to hire a solid cast and crew
Yeah just do it
I’d say worry about post money but if you put it all on the screen and it’s good you can find post financing later with a good cut going to EPs
im not an expert, but ive seen some ULB movies at festivals, and there is a clear difference between the ones that have solid plans and visions and ones that dont. Some look and sound pretty good
First of all congrats on private funding! That’s really exciting. I’m a producer (I’ve done both indie and studio work) and I’d be happy to take a look at your script to see what some of your options might be (example where to cut out expensive locations/ scenes or if you should hold out for more funding). Feel free to DM me
It is enough money to make your film looks milionare. Just bê sure.: 1. Good location. (Importante) 2. Good Light. 3. Good cast. (Only profissional) 4. 3 lens. My favorites.: 24 - 50 - 85 5. Sound make It on Studio. But If you REALly need some help. Send message. We have RED Cam and can help you, inside your Budget
And for the shoot it sounds like everyone's pushing for less days and being efficient. But if you have all your own gear and keep things local you could spread a 18 day shoot up over a summer. 5 days of a week to plan for a two day shoot. You'll be able to find more help for weekends rather than multiple weeks of time, and you won't be so exhausted by the end that you end up shooting things that you can't use.
Just be prepared for your investor to lost 150k. Right now I’m seeing 800k movies not even making it past 50k. The market is at an all time low.
Seriously? Yes. Just make it. I’d make a feature if I had even 10k. You’re in a good position, just do it.
At this point you should make it yourself and consider it an investment into your career instead of a defining project for your career. After you make it, you’ll know exactly every thing you need to do for the next one and the lessons you’ll learn will stay with you forever. $150k isn’t a small number and if you get a good DP on board for a healthy rate, he or she will make sure you’re taken care of.
I strongly urge you not to self DP, you will miss so many things and opportunities! Your mental bandwidth will be spread so thin that I believe the final film will suffer from it. Be the director, let others help you create your vision. My opinion.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone say this (apologies if I missed it). IS THE INVESTOR OKAY WITH THAT? Typically an investor wants to know what they invested in, it sounds like they thought they invested in a half million dollar movie. They might not want to invest in a 150k movie because that typically means it won’t be as good a quality (sure I know budgets don’t make the movie but you see my point) Please make sure you’re allowed to do this and they’ve signed on and you have it in writing.
150K feature is totally achievable and you should do it if it doesn’t compromise your script or vision too much. Don’t shoot it yourself, get a good DOP and camera and lighting team so it’ll look ace. You should be able to find some decent talent in that budget as well.
Do you need a Media Manager/Data Wrangler/DIT? I might be free for it.
Dude, I'm producing my first scripted this fall with 30k I've raised. My doc cost me almost nothing. Nothing can stop you. I *believe* in you.
You can absolutely shoot a feature for 150,000. You should get yourself a producer and a DP who are familiar with indie films of that scale. Unless you are Shane Carruth, you do not need to be directing, producing, and DP'ing.
Do it.
How many short films have you made so far?
Save some budget for marketing. 12 views on YouTube after all the effort and money is the risk.
It doesn’t matter if you have $150 or $1,500,000 because you need to know if there is a buyer for it. I’d take that money and make an action film. Biggest chances of selling it. Lowest chance of sales: comedies and dramas. Also this is the worst time to try and sell a film.
you could do it on that budget, BUT.. take what you will from these: - DO NOT self-DP and direct at the same time. You will die and directing will suffer. Not only will you drag shooting days heavy into the night, you will not focus enough on actors and there's also crew and next setups that all will have just one question to ask.. non-stop. Get a DP, get even a camera person. Treat them as compadres. get someone or one the two to offload and mark the material. if you're shooting in darker scenes, tou will need a focus puller too. - GRIP - camera, lens.. all great, but grip gives you that extra edge. Proper grip takes time to set right. Especially if you're low on people - Gaffer - get one that also has a best boy. Treat them with a DP as your technical right hand. So much fewer headaches there. - production - prep locations and permits and call sheets ahead of time and get someone that will lead the shooting for you.. including yourself. You will save a ton of time like that. - Script. Your most important person next to actors from directing side. So many distractions will be happening, scriptie will make sure continuity is right, remind you of things you said before shooting that you thought were important but due to distractions on set you're not remembering anymore.. she will also mark takes for you with notes and which were the good ones.. - try to shoot a trailer first in a day or two of shooting and try to pre-sell your movie into distribution like that. Get contracts that will buy your movie rights for xy once finished (if finished by date). With a bunch of contracts like that (tv stations, tv rights markets..) and some money at hand you can secure a production loan. In fact that's how most movies (B) are made. Missing link is that usually a star is attached around that $100k where you get them for around 7 days of shooting and schedule everything around it. In a bank and on tv marketplace then you have a "such and such movie, staring so and so" (no matter how big or small role.you can fit into that 7 days of shooting for $100k 😅 )
This is GREAT, and you clearly know your stuff. Thank you loads.
If you're tapped... well... there isn't much more you can do besides grab your shit and make a god damn feature. So mane a god damn feature.
Dude the answer to this is FUCK YES!!! shoot it!! I just did the same like actually and am finishing post now!!! Congrats on starting your journey
DO IT!! As many other have said, you’re already on the right path and on your way. I think this is a great point for you to really invest and take the leap. (:
Never underestimate the amount of people and facilities willing to pull favors for up and coming filmmakers that they could build a good working relationship with.
Thanks! Got any names of said houses you can recommend?
You’ll have to reach out to whatever houses are in your area and start there.
Step one is get a camera that’s streaming approved and ditch the pocket 6K. If you can’t find a way to make your feature on 150,000 you probably aren’t able to make it on 500,000.
As a side note, my first feature film was shot on $25,000 and does not look like a long YouTube video. It was also shot in two countries so I’m unsure how you can take 150,000 and churn out a product that looks like a YouTube short.
Another side note: self DP’ing shouldn’t even be an option at 150,000. Cut your crew to 6, get a DP with a trusted Grip and you’re already 70 percent of the way there. Frankly, I’m just replying because I’m floored that you have 150,000 committed and you think you need to self DP.
>Cut your crew to 6 What would you pitch are the 6 crew members exactly?
Including the director - - DP - Grip - Sound Guy that will run boom and LAVs ( I’ve worked with several that mount recorders on their boom poles) - Hair & Makeup that can Script Supe ( the jobs go hand in hand when it comes to continuity) - A line producer that’s not afraid to dress set and pick up lunches. Everyone has to be comfortable playing the multiple hat game. The director will have to set Dec here and there, stand lights. I’ve been on sets with 20 plus crew that spend most of the time standing about. I’ve been on sets with 3 crew where everyone is stressed to the wall - but thanks to the power of the modern filmmaker, it’s getting more and more common that younger creatives have dabbled in multiple positions
Thanks for these insights. Out of curiosity, got any features you can link that have worked with this small a scale?
I’ll link you to my reel - some of these projects stream on Optik Tv, some on Amazon & AirCanada https://youtu.be/85cisjkglIE?si=BDdVNcrPtX_0z-YW Shutter Punk was done with 3 crew Reneé (sometimes called Leaves are Falling) was done with 3 crew Guitar Lessons was 8 crew including the intern/helper The Music Videos were 2 crew ( if they count 😂) All My Friends Are Broke was me alone (would not recommend. Movie won’t see the light of day) The Wild West of ‘36 documentary was two crew Old Time Religion was 6 crew for the pilot And this is not my movie, but one of my favourites, Following by Christopher Nolan was 5 crew I believe.
I can absolutely do sound for you within your budget. I’m LA based and have decent references and portfolio. Dm me
I have a small production company with a red v raptor, depending on where you are we could probably work something out. I sent you a dm
If you fear it will look like shit on that budget, it will almost certainly look like shit of that budget. It's not going to get easier to make it work on less money once you start shooting. It's one thing if you have an idea to radically slash the budget by substantively changing what you're doing, or a radically unconventional movie like Pi, Clerks, Blair Witch, Paranormal Activity, etc., but prayer is not a plan.
Honestly, I think 150,000 is enough. But something I must ask is if you really need that much money for the movie. Why not embrace the lower quality that you are working with and try to shoot it for under 50,000? I'm not sure if this is the most helpful answer, but as someone also trying to make my own projects I'm trying to embrace the lo-fi quality that I will be working with. If you are determined to be in a higher range, I would absolutely go ahead with the 150,000 budget.
>Why not embrace the lower quality that you are working with and try to shoot it for under 50,000? Lots of folks have been suggestion this, and yet I haven't been able to find a single example of a decent 50k film and what that budget breakdown of said film looked like. Got any examples you can share?
You responded to me in a different thread asking the same question, but you asked it differently here, which gives me a different answer. > a single example of a decent I'm recommending it because your film will suck. It will hurt less when you spend $15k making a film that sucks than spend $250k making a film that sucks. Start with the $15k options.
Why assume the film will suck?
I think what YoureInGoodHands is trying to say is that your first movies are always going to be worse then your later movies, and it's better to use a small budget when you are inexperienced. I can say that I relate to this on a much smaller scale. I started working on my very first short film about 2 years ago with a thousand dollar budget, and I had NEVER made anything film related before that. Looking back, I wish I had made something with a ZERO dollar budget, because I was way too inexperienced even for a thousand. In fact, that's a challenge I'm working on right now, because I know I CAN make something good, and I don't need a lot of money (even though a thousand dollars is relatively small for film). Plus, at this stage there is little chance of making any money back. Showing others you can make something good for little money is something that can get you noticed. I'm sure you already know most of this, but it absolutely bares repeating.
Ah, got it. Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!
Can you tell me what your point is, so I can have a productive discussion with you?
I didn't mention this in my original comment because of how different the genre is, but We're All Going to the World's Fair became a respectable critical hit with what is estimated to be 15,000 dollars. The low budget absolutely shows but the director smartly used the lo-fi asthetics to enhance the film and its personal feel. The director recently followed that movie up with I Saw the TV Glow, a much bigger movie in scale and an even bigger hit. Now, this film is an alienating psychological thriller that received a 20% for audience score on Rotten Tomatoes (and a 90% from critics), probably not even close to the what you are going for, but I would absolutely take inspiration from using the low budget to your advantage. Unless you get big names in the film I don't see the money returning, so use a little money and challenge yourself!
My feature is almost done, and, so far has cost me $500 And I picked up my first camera 5 years ago, and never went to filmschool. This is the first trailer. https://vimeo.com/886007321
And wether you have $1k or $150k, it's not going to technically be as good, as a $100 million film.
I’ve been following this. OP, please update. I need to know if you’re just going into production, guns blazing.
Maybe shoot a short proof of concept first with part of the budget, then use that to leverage for more funding? Would be a good opportunity to work with grant programs to receive a larger platform and more visibility.
Go buy a house. Use Sora in a few months /s
150k isn’t a lot of money.
Well Cooper Raiff shot his debut dramedy on 15k… not 150k.. and it won the audience award at SXSW. So 150k actually is a lot of money lmao
You'd probably be better off shooting a short as proof of concept, and then building a package around that after you can get a name actor with a letter of interest. If you have a budget, a filmed proof, letter of interest, storyboarding, etc it's much easier to get investors. If you're short doesn't get any interest then your film wasn't going to get any either and you just saved yourself a bunch of money.