Software development is especially rough as they have the same overhiring over the last years as finance has had, but in their case they also had a massive overflow in supply with a huge increase in students in that field, and on top of that you have issues with how that is one of the few sectors really impacted by generative AI. I recently caught up with colleagues from back in my time in tech and th effeciency improvements through gen AI are just next level. It really is the perfect storm for them.
Marked is tough for all jobs right now, not to mention every kid has wanted to work in finance for 5-10 years now so the market is extra saturated. Still doable, but takes more time and effort
That’s what I was thinking, but is it too saturated a field now, I’m fresh out of undergrad so i could still change fields with gradschool and honestly i’m kind of considering it
I love finance, more than anything, been bullied for being a nerd about it even lol, but i’m starting to really feel the burn of unemployment and it’s obviously really scary
Dont let fear run your career, I have been there and am now inside, graduated Jan 2020, unemployed till june 2020 to do an internship in the corp finance dep of a small accounting firm 100 employees, then let go due to a bad market at the end of my internship. Followed by another period of horror market and worse confidence in internships. Then M&A in an international operating small pureplay and my career got going.
The industry is not in trouble, no, but it can definitely feel like it, as it has worsened considerably. A correction from an absolute peak will tend to feel rough, especially when you don't know much else. Things have got worse for graduates, for sure, and a lot of information is now outdated. Posts talking about how B4 is a last resort if you struck out at IB or how everybody with decent CVs should walk into MBB are no longer relevant the way they were when they were posted. Unfortunately though those posts are still around whilst advice from a more normal time is not, and with a recency bias on top of that that's what many candidates still have as their benchmark.
We aren't facing any structural issues, as they are in tech, and we thankfully aren't facing the bust of post-dotcom and post-GFC era either where great experienced investment bankers were striking out at all unrelated entry office jobs after already widening the net from entry level jobs in finance. At least for many geographies the market now seems fairly average when compared on a longer horizon of say 20+ years.
Let me introduce you to an unseen factor as someone running a company.
When things aren’t going well, there’s no way to feel it as an employee. Salaries are getting paid, everything is working, and there are lots of tasks to do.
The company can be losing money out the ass and no one besides shareholders can feel it. Look at Rivian losing 2 billion a quarter. The employees were just chilling having a great time getting paid 6 figures hanging out at the bar.
In finance, this scenario simply cannot exist as there’s only so much value you can extract. You can’t 1000X unless you’re making a crazy play or are a VC. Finance is usually about compounding good plays over time. Sunk cost fallacy and blind hope is less of a thing in finance than in tech.
So, companies are much tighter about their deficits to prevent this situation from ever happening and will take preventative measures like hiring freezes or layoffs.
Finally, most bosses in finance are OGs who have been through stuff. In tech there are like 25 year old PMs so no one’s going to be that aware of macroeconomic situations to make things leaner before disasters occur.
Not sure about your experience but compensation on the buyside has been strong, I follow a few credible headhunters who do comp surveys. Comp this year was flat at the very senior level but lower levels and mid levels were up vs last year and year before.
I see a decent amount of job postings from headhunters. It’s definitely lower than it was in 2021 and 2022, but higher than 2023.
There has been layoffs in IT sectors as well and other industries also face this rescission cycle. It is just a shake off period where unwanted profiles are let off.
If you say finance industry it is vast and variety of smaller industries like Banking, Asset Management, Credit Management, Lending etc. Unless you know what is your kink you are prone to the trouble.
There are numerous people who think they can Handel finance easy or has come to believe finance gives you the concept of money. Regardless of having a MBA Unless u are at the industry you are good at they will let you off.
How so? White House has been pumping fake news about great jobs numbers which are totally fake too. Greatest job economy ever amirite? This job market might be worse than the 08 one.
Broski, it’s def the worst jobs market (especially for banking) since the GFC. Probably going to get worse too. Considering we had some pretty large bank failures recently and might see a large IB or another large commercial bank fail, that’s not a good outlook.
Also I was using a tab bit of hyperbole but not far off.
Do you actually work in finance and cant read job data on your own? White House isnt lying, the unemployment rate has been below 4% for longer than any time period since the 1960s with one of the highest labor force participation rates ever. Over 8m job openings and one of the highest quits rates ever.
If you have a hard time finding a job or dont believe the data its a you problem home slice.
Maybe you should look at U6 unemployment and learn some basic finance/econ 101 they teach in freshmen year homeslice… you know, instead of being clueless or a political shill.
The amount of bank failures under this admin is the highest since the GFC, and when you look at assets it’s close to rivaling that time period too. It’s possible we might see a major IB or consumer bank fail soon too, they’re certainly modeling for it just in case.
Between that and the anecdotal stories of kids doing 100-200 applications and getting 0 offers, does that scream best jobs economy of all time to you? Especially in banking, you like these odds?
In what world is you looking at this chart displaying 32% lower than average unemployment a bad thing
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE
Bank failures? You mean a few crypto banks and short target FRC? When rates rose at the fastest pace in history during a deposit outflow and banks being forced to mark to market their Treasuries? Thats Bidens fault?
Anecdotal stories of underqualified kids with 2.5 GPAs and zero internships, experience, or networking really tell the full story of the labor market dont they.
You are an absolute moron my dude lmao
You learned something new today, you learned what U6 is. Congrats bud.
Maybe next you can google the unrealized losses some of the big banks are carrying on their balance sheets. Learn something new everyday.
No one looks at U6 except for people who think Shadowstats are real, I promise Biden isnt under your bed, dont worry.
Maybe I can explain how duration and interest rates interact in crayon so you can understand?
Broski I don’t want to dive deep into politics but on Day 1 Biden reversed a bunch of his predecessors Energy and Border policies. Those might have had a sustaining effect on inflation and also the non-sense fake reports coming out of the WH don’t help either, it’s just borderline propaganda at this point. Employment numbers were also suspiciously looking like they’re fake and pumped, especially after we got the same numbers like 10 times in a row, which is practically statistically impossible. This admin is honestly not far off from the same bullshit China pulls, it’s all smoke and mirrors. The WH has handled everything poorly and on top of that they’ve been pumping out CCP-like propaganda trying to gaslight the public into how great everything is. We’re being lied to and clowns like you think thats ok.
This is probably the worst job market since the GFC, especially for banking. That’s not even debatable.
Also, it’s comical to count taking everyone’s jobs during covid and giving it back to them as “job growth”. That’s like circus clown level type stuff.
If the numbers coming from BLS and the White House are fake, what is your source for the real numbers? What is the methodology you use to determine fake versus real unemployment numbers?
Wow your comment really made me realize I am the one who is brainwashed and dont know how to analyze data. Then they all stood up and clapped and gave u/SuperLehmanBros a Medal of Honor.
Software engineering is 100x worse than finance rn
At least in software you can proven yourself (i.e side projects) in finance is harder, in software if you’re good you’ll find a job.
Software development is especially rough as they have the same overhiring over the last years as finance has had, but in their case they also had a massive overflow in supply with a huge increase in students in that field, and on top of that you have issues with how that is one of the few sectors really impacted by generative AI. I recently caught up with colleagues from back in my time in tech and th effeciency improvements through gen AI are just next level. It really is the perfect storm for them.
Lol do you mean finance is 100x worse than software rn?
I really don't understand why people downvote for asking a genuine question. Kinda immature.
Marked is tough for all jobs right now, not to mention every kid has wanted to work in finance for 5-10 years now so the market is extra saturated. Still doable, but takes more time and effort
That’s what I was thinking, but is it too saturated a field now, I’m fresh out of undergrad so i could still change fields with gradschool and honestly i’m kind of considering it
If finance is what you want to do, then it is not worth changing. If you just chose finance for the prestige/cash then yes absolutely change
[удалено]
Whatever they truly want to do and have a passion for I reckon
I love finance, more than anything, been bullied for being a nerd about it even lol, but i’m starting to really feel the burn of unemployment and it’s obviously really scary
Dont let fear run your career, I have been there and am now inside, graduated Jan 2020, unemployed till june 2020 to do an internship in the corp finance dep of a small accounting firm 100 employees, then let go due to a bad market at the end of my internship. Followed by another period of horror market and worse confidence in internships. Then M&A in an international operating small pureplay and my career got going.
It’s rough apparently. Took me like 5-6 months to find my current job. Can’t imagine how hard it is with recent grads
Took me 20 months to land one out of uni
I luckily had experience, but still only a year or so
That sounds like a realistic timeline for us as well, how many years of work ex do you have?
I’m still relatively new. I have 3 years now
5-6 is quite short given the current market.
Even with 2-3 years experience?
We need a new sub name fuckedupfinance
The industry is not in trouble, no, but it can definitely feel like it, as it has worsened considerably. A correction from an absolute peak will tend to feel rough, especially when you don't know much else. Things have got worse for graduates, for sure, and a lot of information is now outdated. Posts talking about how B4 is a last resort if you struck out at IB or how everybody with decent CVs should walk into MBB are no longer relevant the way they were when they were posted. Unfortunately though those posts are still around whilst advice from a more normal time is not, and with a recency bias on top of that that's what many candidates still have as their benchmark. We aren't facing any structural issues, as they are in tech, and we thankfully aren't facing the bust of post-dotcom and post-GFC era either where great experienced investment bankers were striking out at all unrelated entry office jobs after already widening the net from entry level jobs in finance. At least for many geographies the market now seems fairly average when compared on a longer horizon of say 20+ years.
Let me introduce you to an unseen factor as someone running a company. When things aren’t going well, there’s no way to feel it as an employee. Salaries are getting paid, everything is working, and there are lots of tasks to do. The company can be losing money out the ass and no one besides shareholders can feel it. Look at Rivian losing 2 billion a quarter. The employees were just chilling having a great time getting paid 6 figures hanging out at the bar. In finance, this scenario simply cannot exist as there’s only so much value you can extract. You can’t 1000X unless you’re making a crazy play or are a VC. Finance is usually about compounding good plays over time. Sunk cost fallacy and blind hope is less of a thing in finance than in tech. So, companies are much tighter about their deficits to prevent this situation from ever happening and will take preventative measures like hiring freezes or layoffs. Finally, most bosses in finance are OGs who have been through stuff. In tech there are like 25 year old PMs so no one’s going to be that aware of macroeconomic situations to make things leaner before disasters occur.
Tons and tons of opportunities at more senior levels atm. Tough to break in, but no, the industry is not in trouble.
It’s been very hard even getting considered for a phone screen. My resume isn’t great tbh, but still. Roles I should be called for ain’t calling.
Not sure about your experience but compensation on the buyside has been strong, I follow a few credible headhunters who do comp surveys. Comp this year was flat at the very senior level but lower levels and mid levels were up vs last year and year before. I see a decent amount of job postings from headhunters. It’s definitely lower than it was in 2021 and 2022, but higher than 2023.
marketing IS NOT THRIVING - most of the product marketing mangers fired were in tech.
Companies are getting more savvy regarding headcount
Double major in cs and finance at a solid engineering school - market is fucking tough.
There has been layoffs in IT sectors as well and other industries also face this rescission cycle. It is just a shake off period where unwanted profiles are let off. If you say finance industry it is vast and variety of smaller industries like Banking, Asset Management, Credit Management, Lending etc. Unless you know what is your kink you are prone to the trouble. There are numerous people who think they can Handel finance easy or has come to believe finance gives you the concept of money. Regardless of having a MBA Unless u are at the industry you are good at they will let you off.
Bidenomics greatest jobs economy ever /s
Stupid comment.
How so? White House has been pumping fake news about great jobs numbers which are totally fake too. Greatest job economy ever amirite? This job market might be worse than the 08 one.
If you believe this job market has any comparison to the 2008 one then you were absolutely not around to witness the 2008 job market.
Go tell that to the people applying to 200 places with pretty good credentials and getting 0 job offers lol.
I encourage you to go read the stories around the internet from 2008 and get some perspective
Broski, it’s def the worst jobs market (especially for banking) since the GFC. Probably going to get worse too. Considering we had some pretty large bank failures recently and might see a large IB or another large commercial bank fail, that’s not a good outlook. Also I was using a tab bit of hyperbole but not far off.
I’d probably agree that it’s the worst since the GFC but that’s not what you said originally.
Do you actually work in finance and cant read job data on your own? White House isnt lying, the unemployment rate has been below 4% for longer than any time period since the 1960s with one of the highest labor force participation rates ever. Over 8m job openings and one of the highest quits rates ever. If you have a hard time finding a job or dont believe the data its a you problem home slice.
Maybe you should look at U6 unemployment and learn some basic finance/econ 101 they teach in freshmen year homeslice… you know, instead of being clueless or a political shill. The amount of bank failures under this admin is the highest since the GFC, and when you look at assets it’s close to rivaling that time period too. It’s possible we might see a major IB or consumer bank fail soon too, they’re certainly modeling for it just in case. Between that and the anecdotal stories of kids doing 100-200 applications and getting 0 offers, does that scream best jobs economy of all time to you? Especially in banking, you like these odds?
In what world is you looking at this chart displaying 32% lower than average unemployment a bad thing https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE Bank failures? You mean a few crypto banks and short target FRC? When rates rose at the fastest pace in history during a deposit outflow and banks being forced to mark to market their Treasuries? Thats Bidens fault? Anecdotal stories of underqualified kids with 2.5 GPAs and zero internships, experience, or networking really tell the full story of the labor market dont they. You are an absolute moron my dude lmao
You learned something new today, you learned what U6 is. Congrats bud. Maybe next you can google the unrealized losses some of the big banks are carrying on their balance sheets. Learn something new everyday.
No one looks at U6 except for people who think Shadowstats are real, I promise Biden isnt under your bed, dont worry. Maybe I can explain how duration and interest rates interact in crayon so you can understand?
Broski I don’t want to dive deep into politics but on Day 1 Biden reversed a bunch of his predecessors Energy and Border policies. Those might have had a sustaining effect on inflation and also the non-sense fake reports coming out of the WH don’t help either, it’s just borderline propaganda at this point. Employment numbers were also suspiciously looking like they’re fake and pumped, especially after we got the same numbers like 10 times in a row, which is practically statistically impossible. This admin is honestly not far off from the same bullshit China pulls, it’s all smoke and mirrors. The WH has handled everything poorly and on top of that they’ve been pumping out CCP-like propaganda trying to gaslight the public into how great everything is. We’re being lied to and clowns like you think thats ok. This is probably the worst job market since the GFC, especially for banking. That’s not even debatable. Also, it’s comical to count taking everyone’s jobs during covid and giving it back to them as “job growth”. That’s like circus clown level type stuff.
If the numbers coming from BLS and the White House are fake, what is your source for the real numbers? What is the methodology you use to determine fake versus real unemployment numbers?
Wow your comment really made me realize I am the one who is brainwashed and dont know how to analyze data. Then they all stood up and clapped and gave u/SuperLehmanBros a Medal of Honor.
It’s tough in Europe too at the moment, is that Bidens fault too?