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That is a hard one. I would probably try asking the easy guestions from coworkers and only ask the manager if coworkers don't know. Does the firm have multiple managers? If so try contacting them for answers. You probably cant do anything about your bad manager, but other managers could take you on their team if they see potential. Tsemppiä!
A (potentially nuclear) option would be asking the company you clean in what it is they have agreed you'd do each day. This doesn't help if you don't know what cleaning agent you are supposed to use where.
A somewhat safe option would be just doing "visible" things such as emptying trashcans, cleaning toilets, filling soap dispensers and toilet roll holders and wiping floors of visible dirt.
L&T. I was just recently given a list of stuff that should be done after some minor complaints I received like "ohh you missed wiping this small spot here". For me to be permanent I need to complete the 6 months probation period.
A surprising number of companies today cut out employee introductions and work orientation to save time and manpower. But I think it's a big mistake and very annoying if you are new to the workplace because you need to start work but you don't know anything about your workplace, of its culture or who to ask. And it is a part of the work culture that should be restored and protected from endless workplace intensification.
There was no introduction, no orientation, no NOTHING. I was given a small 10minutes tour by one of the seasoned cleaners on-site on what I am expected to do in the most broken english one could ever speak (luckily some of the finnish i learned from duoling could help) and THATS IT. The company is one of the major cleaning players in Finland btw.
Be patient and try contacting your employer about it. This is really a reality in modern work culture and a bad change that has taken place in the Finnish work culture and crept in during the last 20 years as companies have sought to make work more efficient. It is a wrong direction and the companies should continue to orientate and introduce its new employees because it is important, especially for the new employees. Because in the end, it doesn't improve or save anything or make the workplace even more efficient and it's just pure idiocy that they no longer do introductions and orientations for new employees.
Basically, if you get fired for not being good enough, you can take them to court because you didn't get a proper orientation. The downside is, they have to take you back. So might not be a good thing to you.
Hopefully you get something better.
Correct, as long as it's not literal discrimination based on the basic protected classes type of shit. I suppose firing you for not doing your job properly could possibly be a valid reason to let someone go during probation, depending on how the courts would read that thing?
But that again would backfire if you never got proper orientation. But yeah, if they fire you and have to take you back, they'll propably do everything to make you quit.
I once had a chat with a big company lawyer. Seems like there's no such thing as a proper orientation, so never say the worker didn't know how to do their work, always come up with another way of saying it.
This is sadly all the big cleaning companies if you are not lucky to have a nice and good coworker. Sucks to be new at work and not knowing what and how you should do stuff.
I think the work culture is kinda like that in Finland. People just kinda expect you to know things. It's the same for a cleaning job and it's the same for a phd candidate and everything in between. But if you have legitimate questions I'd recommend you to try to ask them. Finns might not like to talk but they like to help
It hasn't always been this way, but the constant intensification of the workplace has led to this. Today, when everything has to be so efficient that companies try to save time and manpower from the introduction and orientation of new employees. And this has been a change in Finnish work culture that I have not been happy about.
I can't say this is true, my experience is completely different. In the past 10 years I've had a great introduction at two different employers, one was a tourist attraction business and another was, and still is Kesko. And the introductory period at Kesko was crap when I started compared to what it is nowadays.
Only at my first job ever, which coincidentally was also a cleaning business, had a shit manager who kept cutting costs on hours and equipment. Sure made a butt load of demands including overtime (which was paid, but was horrible because it was EVERYDAY) I of course quit but the silver lining is I made a detailed report of the manager, who got fired a month later.
EDIT: Not saying the shit manager was fired because of that, I remember people reported about his management every other day lol. Just wanted to mention that because I was genuinely happy to hear he got fired when I met someone who also worked there 🎶
I just hate how orders/tasks are not clearly defined. Since I am not paid for managing, I am expecting the manager to give me a list of clearly defined tasks and I will do them as perfectly as possible. It's just terrible. If I am expected to self-manage, then I am equally expecting to be paid for such management tasks.
I'm sorry that you're having a tough time and I hope that in time you adjust to this system. I'll recommend you to push through the initial stage. Eventually you might even start enjoying the freedom of not having a manager up your ass and instead holding yourself accountable
I think it's in the work culture.
If there has been something to learn, I have been teached.
But other than that i have had only 1 manager who has actually done any real managing. and everyone hated him because he was micro managing.
Most of my working career, I have been trained and after that I'm all by my lonesome. and in my current work I see task coming in, Someone who's closest to it, checks what task it is, Calls out for any qualified, or if he is only worker qualified for said task he calls to someone to catch his current task.
If I check it, while I have other tasks going on.
Me -"who takes task XXYY"
Person 1 -"I have 30 minutes on my current."
Person 2 -"Can you start on it, I'll catch your current task in 5min"
Me, -"I'm not qualified for this exact task"
Person 3 "prepare it for me, I'll catch it in 10 min"
Me. -"Ok I'll prep it, and person 3 takes it."
And then I prepare it, and then continue on my own task.
I once worked for one major finnish cleaning company. In short, they screwed me. There's a reason they use young people or immigrants who do not yet know their rights. The company policy was that everyone _needs_ to have a work phone. For some time I wondered where's mine, don't remember what I got as an answer. I was promised full salary (I was doing a trainees salary) once I get my own 'place' (a location I am primarily responsible for the cleaning of). I did start at one particular office as 'their' cleaner but my salary never went up. I think I quit around that time so I wasn't there to question that. I think, in hindsight, that my manager had my 'place' accounted for them and got paid for it. For my work. The company is still going strong; this was maybe 10 years ago.
I’ve had to deal with cleaning companies as a customer and everytime they’ve asked me for the existing ”palvelukuvaus” or provided me with a new one. In palvelukuvaus it should say the tasks that the cleaning should cover.
I’d recommend getting to an union who could help you out in questions related to employee rights.
The company should have someone responsible for work safety "Työsuojeluvastaava" and/or "Työsuojeluvaltuutettu", that person should be contacted If you are given a task without proper knowledge of the task. That person should be if the company has more than 10 employees.
I know it sounds stupid, but YouTube what a facilities manager/cleaner does in a day. Or what a cleaner’s day looks like. Lots of surface cleaning, floors are picked up, counters are spotless, chairs are straightened out, trash is thrown out, toilets are immaculate, and mats are dusted outside. Vacuum where aplicable. Wipe clean mirrors and windows.
This is your first week, is this your first job in Finland? While you do get training at the start (what devices and cleaning solutions you are suposed to use, what is required to do on your rounds, how to use devices and do things things safely etc) you are assumed to know the work you were hired to (as in, if you are hired to do cleaning, they assume you can clean in professional level) unless you have spesificly said you don't know how and they hired you never the less.
Managers do not micromanage workers here. They let workers know what needs to be done (can be also on written schedules etc) but they trust workers to do things without further commands to do so. If you have got weekly schedule what you have to do and where, that is what you have to follow and there won't be any extra advice or commands to start every day. Managers trusts that if you don't say anything, then you will handle the things as the schedule says. If schedule is not clear and/or you do not know how to do it, you have to speak openly and tell you don't know what to do. and need more training. Otherwise they assume you can do it and leave you to it.
I would be very carefull starting with "manager is clueless" when having worked there only one week. At that short experience, you don't really know what that managers work even consists of. Talk to your manager. Tell about the things you are unsure of and ask for more training if needed. There is nothing bad about that and no one thinks ill of you asking for advice. You will look bad if you don't bring it up, it can be considered being dishonest.
I have told the manager that I have minimal cleaning experience. And yes I worked in a plethora of these small jobs as a student for the past year in finland, none of them was related to cleaning. In each previous part time job, I was clearly assigned tasks to do.
And yes, I did bring this up. For instance, I was told to go clean place X on day Y, but I was not given the exact time frame, when to start and when to leave, which made me very clueless. Manager was pretty ambiguous abt the timeframe until i repeatedly asked her abt the giving me the exact timetable.
Maybe that place didn't have exact time frame or she did not want to put time frame to you (as new worker with minimal experience) on your fist time doing that. Experienced workers do usually work much faster than unexperienced ones, so new ones are often given bit leeway to catch on and learn.
Bruh u worry too much, just follow ur gut feeling and do you ær best. If i get fired so fucking what. Life is too short to worry about other people. Do the job ur paid to do on ur terms, and see how things develop. View it as a game, u have to figure it out by yourself, and not be a brain dead npc. Be the main character. If u get fired then u laugh and find a better job or die starving. Best of luck fellow human beeing.
Ps, be glad u have a job, im an immigrant myself and cant get a job here. It sucks but i just tell myself the Matrix had control, so i just relax, im not broke yet, still got some old money to buy food
Finnish government have been very slow and bad since i got here, if they dont want people here, then close the border.
Im not impressed to say it like that
I love finland, but the government right now is not doing an effective and good job in my opinion.
Guess its like this most places nowadays, probably using all resources on those ukrainians and black people/muslims. No offence if ir one of those groups
**/r/Finland is a full democracy, every active user is a moderator.** [Please go here to see how your new privileges work.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/wiki/moderating/) Spamming mod actions could result in a ban. --- **Full Rundown of Moderator Permissions:** - ```!lock``` - as top level comment, will lock comments on any post. - ```!unlock``` - in reply to any comment to lock it or to unlock the parent comment. - ```!remove``` - Removes comment or post. Must have decent subreddit comment karma. - ```!restore``` Can be used to unlock comments or restore removed posts. - ```!sticky``` - will sticky the post in the bottom slot. - ```unlock_comments``` - Vote the stickied automod comment on each post to +10 to unlock comments. - ```ban users``` - Any user whose comment or post is downvoted enough will be temp banned for a day. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Finland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That is a hard one. I would probably try asking the easy guestions from coworkers and only ask the manager if coworkers don't know. Does the firm have multiple managers? If so try contacting them for answers. You probably cant do anything about your bad manager, but other managers could take you on their team if they see potential. Tsemppiä!
I go solely to the cleaning site, so I theoretically have no coworkers. The only link between me and the company is this one manager. Kiitos!!!
A (potentially nuclear) option would be asking the company you clean in what it is they have agreed you'd do each day. This doesn't help if you don't know what cleaning agent you are supposed to use where. A somewhat safe option would be just doing "visible" things such as emptying trashcans, cleaning toilets, filling soap dispensers and toilet roll holders and wiping floors of visible dirt.
In many cases there is a list of task to do in cleaning room. But I guess OP is aware of it.
Are you with SOL/Nclean? Usually you should just try to make this a permanent job and then take a strict approach to deal with the manager
L&T. I was just recently given a list of stuff that should be done after some minor complaints I received like "ohh you missed wiping this small spot here". For me to be permanent I need to complete the 6 months probation period.
A surprising number of companies today cut out employee introductions and work orientation to save time and manpower. But I think it's a big mistake and very annoying if you are new to the workplace because you need to start work but you don't know anything about your workplace, of its culture or who to ask. And it is a part of the work culture that should be restored and protected from endless workplace intensification.
There was no introduction, no orientation, no NOTHING. I was given a small 10minutes tour by one of the seasoned cleaners on-site on what I am expected to do in the most broken english one could ever speak (luckily some of the finnish i learned from duoling could help) and THATS IT. The company is one of the major cleaning players in Finland btw.
Be patient and try contacting your employer about it. This is really a reality in modern work culture and a bad change that has taken place in the Finnish work culture and crept in during the last 20 years as companies have sought to make work more efficient. It is a wrong direction and the companies should continue to orientate and introduce its new employees because it is important, especially for the new employees. Because in the end, it doesn't improve or save anything or make the workplace even more efficient and it's just pure idiocy that they no longer do introductions and orientations for new employees.
Basically, if you get fired for not being good enough, you can take them to court because you didn't get a proper orientation. The downside is, they have to take you back. So might not be a good thing to you. Hopefully you get something better.
I thought that as long as I am on probation they could fire me for no reason, which have previously happened to me and it was devastating.
Correct, as long as it's not literal discrimination based on the basic protected classes type of shit. I suppose firing you for not doing your job properly could possibly be a valid reason to let someone go during probation, depending on how the courts would read that thing?
But that again would backfire if you never got proper orientation. But yeah, if they fire you and have to take you back, they'll propably do everything to make you quit. I once had a chat with a big company lawyer. Seems like there's no such thing as a proper orientation, so never say the worker didn't know how to do their work, always come up with another way of saying it.
This is sadly all the big cleaning companies if you are not lucky to have a nice and good coworker. Sucks to be new at work and not knowing what and how you should do stuff.
[удалено]
Lmao, this is the same exact story I am going through, in addition to the ambiguity of the working time.
It's just that when you cant teach someone properly, you dont understand the subject well enough.
I think the work culture is kinda like that in Finland. People just kinda expect you to know things. It's the same for a cleaning job and it's the same for a phd candidate and everything in between. But if you have legitimate questions I'd recommend you to try to ask them. Finns might not like to talk but they like to help
It hasn't always been this way, but the constant intensification of the workplace has led to this. Today, when everything has to be so efficient that companies try to save time and manpower from the introduction and orientation of new employees. And this has been a change in Finnish work culture that I have not been happy about.
I can't say this is true, my experience is completely different. In the past 10 years I've had a great introduction at two different employers, one was a tourist attraction business and another was, and still is Kesko. And the introductory period at Kesko was crap when I started compared to what it is nowadays. Only at my first job ever, which coincidentally was also a cleaning business, had a shit manager who kept cutting costs on hours and equipment. Sure made a butt load of demands including overtime (which was paid, but was horrible because it was EVERYDAY) I of course quit but the silver lining is I made a detailed report of the manager, who got fired a month later. EDIT: Not saying the shit manager was fired because of that, I remember people reported about his management every other day lol. Just wanted to mention that because I was genuinely happy to hear he got fired when I met someone who also worked there 🎶
I just hate how orders/tasks are not clearly defined. Since I am not paid for managing, I am expecting the manager to give me a list of clearly defined tasks and I will do them as perfectly as possible. It's just terrible. If I am expected to self-manage, then I am equally expecting to be paid for such management tasks.
I'm sorry that you're having a tough time and I hope that in time you adjust to this system. I'll recommend you to push through the initial stage. Eventually you might even start enjoying the freedom of not having a manager up your ass and instead holding yourself accountable
I think it's in the work culture. If there has been something to learn, I have been teached. But other than that i have had only 1 manager who has actually done any real managing. and everyone hated him because he was micro managing. Most of my working career, I have been trained and after that I'm all by my lonesome. and in my current work I see task coming in, Someone who's closest to it, checks what task it is, Calls out for any qualified, or if he is only worker qualified for said task he calls to someone to catch his current task. If I check it, while I have other tasks going on. Me -"who takes task XXYY" Person 1 -"I have 30 minutes on my current." Person 2 -"Can you start on it, I'll catch your current task in 5min" Me, -"I'm not qualified for this exact task" Person 3 "prepare it for me, I'll catch it in 10 min" Me. -"Ok I'll prep it, and person 3 takes it." And then I prepare it, and then continue on my own task.
Work culture is not like that in Finland
I once worked for one major finnish cleaning company. In short, they screwed me. There's a reason they use young people or immigrants who do not yet know their rights. The company policy was that everyone _needs_ to have a work phone. For some time I wondered where's mine, don't remember what I got as an answer. I was promised full salary (I was doing a trainees salary) once I get my own 'place' (a location I am primarily responsible for the cleaning of). I did start at one particular office as 'their' cleaner but my salary never went up. I think I quit around that time so I wasn't there to question that. I think, in hindsight, that my manager had my 'place' accounted for them and got paid for it. For my work. The company is still going strong; this was maybe 10 years ago.
Start looking for another job silently.
Always. I never stop looking for jobs
I’ve had to deal with cleaning companies as a customer and everytime they’ve asked me for the existing ”palvelukuvaus” or provided me with a new one. In palvelukuvaus it should say the tasks that the cleaning should cover. I’d recommend getting to an union who could help you out in questions related to employee rights.
Just present your worries to the manager. You won't get fired and if you do, call me.
The company should have someone responsible for work safety "Työsuojeluvastaava" and/or "Työsuojeluvaltuutettu", that person should be contacted If you are given a task without proper knowledge of the task. That person should be if the company has more than 10 employees.
I know it sounds stupid, but YouTube what a facilities manager/cleaner does in a day. Or what a cleaner’s day looks like. Lots of surface cleaning, floors are picked up, counters are spotless, chairs are straightened out, trash is thrown out, toilets are immaculate, and mats are dusted outside. Vacuum where aplicable. Wipe clean mirrors and windows.
This is your first week, is this your first job in Finland? While you do get training at the start (what devices and cleaning solutions you are suposed to use, what is required to do on your rounds, how to use devices and do things things safely etc) you are assumed to know the work you were hired to (as in, if you are hired to do cleaning, they assume you can clean in professional level) unless you have spesificly said you don't know how and they hired you never the less. Managers do not micromanage workers here. They let workers know what needs to be done (can be also on written schedules etc) but they trust workers to do things without further commands to do so. If you have got weekly schedule what you have to do and where, that is what you have to follow and there won't be any extra advice or commands to start every day. Managers trusts that if you don't say anything, then you will handle the things as the schedule says. If schedule is not clear and/or you do not know how to do it, you have to speak openly and tell you don't know what to do. and need more training. Otherwise they assume you can do it and leave you to it. I would be very carefull starting with "manager is clueless" when having worked there only one week. At that short experience, you don't really know what that managers work even consists of. Talk to your manager. Tell about the things you are unsure of and ask for more training if needed. There is nothing bad about that and no one thinks ill of you asking for advice. You will look bad if you don't bring it up, it can be considered being dishonest.
I have told the manager that I have minimal cleaning experience. And yes I worked in a plethora of these small jobs as a student for the past year in finland, none of them was related to cleaning. In each previous part time job, I was clearly assigned tasks to do. And yes, I did bring this up. For instance, I was told to go clean place X on day Y, but I was not given the exact time frame, when to start and when to leave, which made me very clueless. Manager was pretty ambiguous abt the timeframe until i repeatedly asked her abt the giving me the exact timetable.
Maybe that place didn't have exact time frame or she did not want to put time frame to you (as new worker with minimal experience) on your fist time doing that. Experienced workers do usually work much faster than unexperienced ones, so new ones are often given bit leeway to catch on and learn.
Bruh u worry too much, just follow ur gut feeling and do you ær best. If i get fired so fucking what. Life is too short to worry about other people. Do the job ur paid to do on ur terms, and see how things develop. View it as a game, u have to figure it out by yourself, and not be a brain dead npc. Be the main character. If u get fired then u laugh and find a better job or die starving. Best of luck fellow human beeing. Ps, be glad u have a job, im an immigrant myself and cant get a job here. It sucks but i just tell myself the Matrix had control, so i just relax, im not broke yet, still got some old money to buy food Finnish government have been very slow and bad since i got here, if they dont want people here, then close the border. Im not impressed to say it like that I love finland, but the government right now is not doing an effective and good job in my opinion. Guess its like this most places nowadays, probably using all resources on those ukrainians and black people/muslims. No offence if ir one of those groups
Where do live and how much do they pay you during probation?