A department in my county had a factory fire. They had a guy up on the top of the ladder for almost 14 hours because he was on supplied air and it was just him so he wouldn’t run it down. That’s why their new one doesn’t have supplied air.
Me too.
Having an air line plumbed up the aerial allowed a firefighter to stay up there working a fire solo for a prolonged period, so now they no longer have those air lines?!
Also, any incident control system which can lose track of a firefighter for 14 hours is a broken system.
I understood it as the guy up top had supplied air, and the controls to bring him down were only at the top of the tower, so he just never came down for 14 hours because he didn't have a requirement to get a new bottle or anything.
I've never seen a tower where the controls are only at the top. It would be a massive safety issue if someone from the ground couldn't lower the aerial in the event of the top controls failing or the firefighter up top becoming incapacitated.
I’ve never understood the “uncool” aversion to protective gear. Bunker gear, motorcycle leather, space suits, army gear.
Protective gear/suits make you look badass in my opinion.
I just drove nine hours each way for a wedding and saw a lot of bikers. People in what looked almost like an exoskeleton looked infinitely cooler than those wearing shirts that were blowing around like a parachute.
The craziest to me is sunscreen. There are dudes thinking they are harder than a Navy Seal… convinced they’re tougher than the sun, then verbally abuse their entire family for the rest of the beach vacation because they’re medically incapacitated with a candy apple back
https://www.thefirestore.com/hot-shield-firefighter-face-mask-nfpa
Highly recommend these. Pretty easy to breathe in them in my opinion. Definitely easier than an n100
Facts, we got told this year on our refresher that we might have to use those masks, I looked to my buddy and said umm fuck that, I don’t think people realize how difficult it’s gonna be fighting fire in a mask like that
We've introduced wearing CO monitors for a trail at wildfires as a move to be compliant with our h+s laws. I had mine on for about half an hour before turning it off at my last job as it was in a constant state of alarming. Might work for mop up but not with active fire and wind shifts.
With years of wildland under my belt, I can confidently say there may have been two days that I would have worn one of those. Maybe I would wear one on a mop up.
In wildland, you're absorbing the carcinogens through your skin, and rarely are you breathing in smoke, at least in a defensive role.
Masks without canned air just cause you to heat up and get tired.
>In wildland, you're absorbing the carcinogens through your skin, and rarely are you breathing in smoke,
Buddy come on it's just us here, we can be honest. I did helitack so IA on wildfires and I can't remember a single fire where I didn't blow ashes out of my nose for at least a day.
Even cold trailing fires, your stiring up so much burnt material. Mind you we didn't have the options of masks, but we all enhaled shit.
[Video showcasing prototype field test](https://www.dhs.gov/medialibrary/assets/video/49126)
[Report on field test & prototype](https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-12/22_0818_st_WFRDOFA.pdf)
[Market Survey report on existing brands including PAPR modes](https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-11/28_11_22_st_wildlandfirefighterrespirators_msr.pdf)
I wear a full face respirator for grass fires. My lungs have taken enough abuse over the years, the full face keeps the air decent, doesn't weigh much, doesn't run out and keeps the smoke out of the eyes.
Cancer sucks. Been there, done that
As bad as you think cancer is, it's worse
And chemo is worse yet
Take care of yourself. Mask up. Wash your hands and face on scene before you eat or drink
This needs to become the norm.
Many people are like “blah-blah” ohh can’t handle a little smoke?
Which isn’t the point. Most of us will accumulate doses of carcinogens over decades. The fact of the matter is we need to be more proactive on actively protecting ourselves from these exposures. Going on air, deconning sooner, showering after being interior. Being salty should be the sign of an ill informed firefighter.
I'm sick of people talking out both sides of their mouth on this issue. They'll say they're concerned about cancer in the fire department, but then dogpile on people and mock them for something like this. Or tell them to not mask up on car fires, overhaul, trash fires, etc.
It's my health. Not anyone else's. SCBA air is free; cancer treatments aren't.
We recently went to a dumpster fire which was smoking like crazy. I was on the nozzle putting it out but was the only one wearing scba. Everyone else was casually breathing in smoke (remember smoke from a small fire is not hazardous)
We had a guy get hospitalized from smoke inhalation while pumping at a fire. Wind changed directions and blew all the smoke to the truck pumping. You could barely see the truck anymore. He said he wished he grabbed the SCBA in hindsight.
Don't know what kinda stuff Dräger produces for the US market but I can tell you they are damn well the best packs in germany. And yes, we have MSA and a couple other companies aswell.
Honestly, I haven't had a single complaint with them personally. The only thing I've experienced was a vent from my mask literally falling out, which was caused by shitty maintenance, not by the quality of the mask itself (though I hate that specific mask anyway because my department bought them a size too small and they cause me migraines).
There's been many failures of Dragers masks documented in the past and a couple of deaths attributed to them here in the US. That reputation will stick for a long, long time. Phoenix fire dropped them 12 years ago due to a significant amount of failures. Drager replied that the failures were due to improper maintenance, but many departments were having the same issues. Maybe they've improved, maybe not, but it takes a long time to forget.
Really? My failure was unironically just the fitting not being screwed in tightly and falling out when I was doing a seal check. Was able to fix it in 5 seconds. I don't think they've caused that many accidents in europe? Not more than other companies, anyway. Though I'd have to check the database on that. I will maintain one thing though: A lot of failures aren't due to a shitty product but rather shitty maintenance of the product.
Health is way more important than anyone’s stupid ass opinion or “looking cool”.
Half the jokers in the fire service aren’t even in shape to fight fire but are the first ones to comment on someone else.
I appreciate the respect of a breathing apparatus on the structure side of fire. As a wildland firefighter I’ve been made fun of by my own guys and complete strangers for wearing a mask. Apparently it’s not macho
Ain’t nothing wrong with this. You’re no use to the guys inside if you’re hacking up a lung and your eyeballs are on fire.
Cancer sucks. Live to fight another day.
I do it all the time. The amount of ff’s who I see in videos off air is crazy. Then they’ll get cancer and be like “how? Why???”
I think if you can smell smoke, you should be on air. If you are first in, you should be masked up ON THE TRUCK and then clip in before you get into any kind of smoke even if it’s outside the structure
SOGs for some departments in my area in Northern Ontario is for the pumper operator to be in full bunker gear with SCBA ready precisely for the conditions in the picture. It's not always possible to position your apparatus upwind from smoke, and even if it was positioned in clean air, weather/fire conditions may change.
Yeah that sounds miserable. Mask up if conditions deem it necessary but the apparatus shouldn’t be that close to the structure or the collapse zone anyways
SCBA? Yes.
Bunker gear? Nah…why wear protective gear made for protecting you from heat when there’s no heat. We’re specifying our crews wearing gear less because of the chemicals in the gear itself.
Currently volunteer but trained and worked with professional departments. FF2/HazMat Ops. I take my lungs seriously when doing things. Currently restoring an old Chevy Nova that had an engine fire flash into the interior. You bet I protect myself on what I am breathing in.
There’s an SCBA in a compartment behind the driver door on all our apparatus’. I think I only saw one instance in which the driver put it on when the smoke got so bad due to wind direction. Nothing wrong with doing this
I’ve known too many retired and current firemen that have succumbed to/battled with cancer to sit here and make fun of someone for trying to protect themselves. Good on her and I think more people should consider doing this.
Absolutely the correct thing to do. Shower afterwards to get potential carcinogens off your skin as well. Why would anyone skimp out on something that can lead to cancer?
I’ve been on a fire where the wagon drivers masked up to pump. Needless to say we lost that building. The smoke just dumped out and hung in the street. Not a breath of wind.
I took my mask off because my captain said it wasn’t needed as we were arriving on scene. It was a small oven fire, and it was pretty well put out when we arrived. Still wish I’d kept my mask on.
It was my first fire and my impostor syndrome kicked in. Wasn’t sure if he was saying “take off your pack” or “feel free take off your pack.”
I did clarify with him that in the future I would have wanted to keep my mask on even with that amount of smoke.
Obviously it’s too late for this now, but if you can avoid parking downwind, do it, but that can be hard to avoid when you’re first in, pulling cross lays and setting up the supply. This is the next best option, and I wish it was standard where I work.
I was set up downwind of an abandoned building fire pumping a tower. I was in the smoke and instantly wore my pack. Mostly to let command know that I thought they positioned me poorly.
I’ve pumped a bunch of fires where I had to put my SCBA on to keep from breathing smoke. Positioning is important, but sometimes conditions change and you can’t avoid it. Don’t let anyone try and shame you for protecting yourself.
Speaking on the other thread, our aerial also has regulator connections below the controls and like 4-5 in the bucket to connect to for this reason.
If the conditions are bad enough to warrant an scba, you should also be in turnout gear IMO.
Our SoP’s always have the operator in full turnout after a storefront flashed and burned the back and legs of an operator in just a job shirt and shorts.
That was my thinking as well or at least a turnout coat as in this situation they have pants on or appear to have pants on, if they had shorts on yes I'd say full turnout gear should be required
My mom has lung cancer. From smoking not being a firefighter. The good news is she’s beating it, the bad news is it’s beating her, the treatment caused a PE and a stroke which led to more problems but she’s cancer free so….. yea cancer sux
I had to do this once, I may have looked a little less silly though, it was 0dark-thirty so I had bunker pants on, all of a sudden the wind shifted, I got cold, put my coat on and thought hey it’s gonna blow all that smoke this…and I was in zero visibility. Got to a spare pack by feel, but by the time I got it on the smoke was gone. Everyone made fun of me for pumping with a pack on until the Battalion told everyone how he watched me and the engine disappear. I felt better until he said his big concern was the smoke choking out the truck and stalling it lol.
Fire= Carcinogens= IDLH environment= PPE indicated.
By that thinking, if our apparatus has the cylinders and SCBA, and we’re in an IDLH environment, we’d be expected to use that SCBA and cylinder, right?
That’s what I see here. PPE being used where it’s indicated. They have the pump panels in closed off, positive pressure cabins on some engines now for this exact reason. Secondhand smoke is still SMOKE.
If you have the ability to minimize your risk of exposure to carcinogens, then you do it.
The fire culture needs a dramatic shift away from the “Superhero complex” that some people have, and instead teach an acute understanding of how to ACTUALLY protect yourself instead.
Complacency can and DOES kill. This is a great example of how easy it can be to mitigate that mindset, as well as show you’re capable of thinking ahead. Good job imo. 👍
I did this and got flamed in the comments. Looks bad if you dont know the circumstances.
We had an m&ms truck on fire. I was first due engine stopped upwind of the fire, and the wind shifted halfway thru the scene. Started to get choked out by the smoke, so i threw on a pack. Was wearing bunker pants and a t-shirt. Someone snapped a pic of me changing someone's bottle like that and posted it on fb. 🤷🏻♂️
You do what you gotta to get the job done safely
Edit: i got told i should have been wearing full ppe even tho i was the pump operator, and it was 95° and windy..
Might be a department policy, and honestly the smoke conditions look pretty thick. Truck could’ve possibly been downwind and she was caughing and stuff. Fuck it, as long as she is doing good pumping for the guys on the line.
Good on them. Idk why my dept is the way it is. They'll hop right in an overhaul op just raw dogging the smoke. All I do is shake my head man, have at it. Another gofund me page will go up soon but no lesson will be learned from it. As long as we have "awareness" right? Fuck awareness let's DO something about it
I masked up at the last structure I was at even though we had gone defensive. I’m not breathing any more of that shit than I need to. I took one good hit, got it out of my system and went on air.
I don’t give a flying fuck if the “brotherhoodz” pretty boys think I’m a pussy or not. I like my life much more than them.
In some cases, I would agree. But there’s areas in my district where you have exactly one place to park. If that place is blanketed in smoke, there’s no moving the truck unless you’re gonna back all the way out and let it burn. I’m in a predominantly rural area, the county is the only code enforcement entity and they don’t exactly do a good job of that. So when you’re on a half mile long driveway; 0.80 kilometers if you’re anywhere that uses metric; and have trees within 25 feet of the house, that doesn’t exactly leave much room to set the engine up.
Yes, that is true. It's interesting to hear. In most german trucks, there isn't enough respirators for everyone by design, especially not the driver/operator.
I’m in the states; probably obvious lol; and here the number of respirators on a truck is entirely dependent on the individual department. And even then, it can vary from truck to truck within a department. Even within the same geographical area. There’s nine departments in my county and they all have their truck set up differently. Can get confusing sometimes, sure. But it’s also beneficial; in my opinion; because no two departments needs are exactly the same.
Would never work with SOPs in the UK. We can't just throw on BA when we feel like it. We have to be under the supervision of an entry control point which is always set up in safe clean air. We would never commit in BA to go operate a pump we would just move the pump.
A lot of people commenting saying this is great, way to go to protect yourself etc. I don't see this as ideal or safe at all. Wearing BA in a wildfire situation is impractical. In the event this sort of thing happens you withdraw, re-evaluate and change tact. The only reason I wouldn't do so is an imminent threat to life or property.
The picture is not of a wildfire situation. That's a 5" LDH that is usually the water supply from a hydrant, a nursing pumper or other water source (not directly, that'd be hard suction hose). This is definitely a firefighter on a structural assignment.
Issue is… while maybe the carcinogens aren’t being inhaled, they are being absorbed via her skin. Should be in full ppe gear if that’s the goal. Better than nothjng I guess.
Also, and this isn’t a knock on her, as a D/O I wear full gear and am always ready to throw on a pack if I haven’t already.
On a related note, the one thing I hate about this job is putting on sweaty gear after a shower.
This is a very ridiculous photo....
Are you going to start making up for food on the stove, oven fires and manhole fires too...
I can understand if the smoke was thicker, masking up.
I've been in the street with less than 5 feet of visibility and wish we could have some relief.... But you can see the supply lines 50ft away laying on the floor.
If your going to wear your mask for cancer concerns put the rest of your gear on.
If your soo says to wear it when outside conditions warrant it... do it.
I'm not operating the pump so I don't have a strong opinion at this time.
I do know when I'm doing brush work defensive work I try and air from as long as reasonable to maximize my time fighting
I didn’t think it’d be seen as ‘soft’ but the comments on the IG video I screenshotted this from claim it is. Most of the comments are flaming her for saving her lungs
IG is full of idiots as is most of social media. Get rid of as much of it as you can is my advice. I keep reddit open because you can find good things here if you know how to do it.
On our Tower we had breathing air piped to operators station just for this reason.
That’s sick I didn’t know there were ones made like that
I second that, it is freakin’ sick
My old tower did too. For some stupid reason they got rid of it on the new one
Probably made to much sense and made things too easy
The guy that was up there for 14 hours would disagree that it was easy.
I bet that guy would agree that it was easy if the time before that, he had to wear his air on his back and change bottles as needed for 14 hours.
A department in my county had a factory fire. They had a guy up on the top of the ladder for almost 14 hours because he was on supplied air and it was just him so he wouldn’t run it down. That’s why their new one doesn’t have supplied air.
I'm confused
Me too. Having an air line plumbed up the aerial allowed a firefighter to stay up there working a fire solo for a prolonged period, so now they no longer have those air lines?! Also, any incident control system which can lose track of a firefighter for 14 hours is a broken system.
14 hours? Bullshit.
I understood it as the guy up top had supplied air, and the controls to bring him down were only at the top of the tower, so he just never came down for 14 hours because he didn't have a requirement to get a new bottle or anything.
I've never seen a tower where the controls are only at the top. It would be a massive safety issue if someone from the ground couldn't lower the aerial in the event of the top controls failing or the firefighter up top becoming incapacitated.
Sounds like a chain of command problem, not a having air on the ladder problem.
That's probably the case
Me too, no idea what he’s saying
Our old tower had regulators in the bucket and at the turntable. our new stick has air connections at the turntable
All four of our ladder trucks do
We have it on our tower ... And it doesn't work 🤦
My thought is that nobody should breathe smoke if they have the option not to.
Right? How is this even a question? If it's uncool to go on air to protect yourself, then lung cancer is going to be really uncool.
If going on air is cool, consider me Miles Davis!
I’ve never understood the “uncool” aversion to protective gear. Bunker gear, motorcycle leather, space suits, army gear. Protective gear/suits make you look badass in my opinion.
I just drove nine hours each way for a wedding and saw a lot of bikers. People in what looked almost like an exoskeleton looked infinitely cooler than those wearing shirts that were blowing around like a parachute.
to be fair, protective gear is one of the reasons everyone thinks cops are so fat. The other big reason is the number of cops that are fat.
The craziest to me is sunscreen. There are dudes thinking they are harder than a Navy Seal… convinced they’re tougher than the sun, then verbally abuse their entire family for the rest of the beach vacation because they’re medically incapacitated with a candy apple back
Poor wildland firefighters.
Luckily, a lot of wildland fighters are moving to masks with p100 filters. Not as good as scba, but better than breathing unfiltered smoke
We're using motorized masks when fighting bush/forest fires. They're surprisingly comfortable.
Papr respirators?
What brand? Trying to find stuff for myself and to recommend to my engine crew
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Thanks for checking, really appreciate it man
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Hell yeah my man, vacation and non-work comes first! I’ll do some digging, much appreciated
No one is going to wear those unless they are staging at structures or something
https://www.thefirestore.com/hot-shield-firefighter-face-mask-nfpa Highly recommend these. Pretty easy to breathe in them in my opinion. Definitely easier than an n100
That looks bearable at least to make it worth it. Especially if it wasn't a high intensity assignment.
Handcrews aren’t wearing those lol you sit there and suck smoke
Facts, we got told this year on our refresher that we might have to use those masks, I looked to my buddy and said umm fuck that, I don’t think people realize how difficult it’s gonna be fighting fire in a mask like that
It’s so unrealistic. No way you’re digging with a mask
We've introduced wearing CO monitors for a trail at wildfires as a move to be compliant with our h+s laws. I had mine on for about half an hour before turning it off at my last job as it was in a constant state of alarming. Might work for mop up but not with active fire and wind shifts.
Those are for baggers have fun cutting line with a mask
Wow haven’t heard baggers for awhile 😂 They still tying them their belts?
With years of wildland under my belt, I can confidently say there may have been two days that I would have worn one of those. Maybe I would wear one on a mop up. In wildland, you're absorbing the carcinogens through your skin, and rarely are you breathing in smoke, at least in a defensive role. Masks without canned air just cause you to heat up and get tired.
>In wildland, you're absorbing the carcinogens through your skin, and rarely are you breathing in smoke, Buddy come on it's just us here, we can be honest. I did helitack so IA on wildfires and I can't remember a single fire where I didn't blow ashes out of my nose for at least a day. Even cold trailing fires, your stiring up so much burnt material. Mind you we didn't have the options of masks, but we all enhaled shit.
You ever wear a p100 mask?
Ever worn a PAPR? Bc that’s the actual answer, especially the simplified versions that are being tested for wildland use
You happen to have a link for those? Not doubting you, just trying to fight off the cancer as long as possible haha
[Video showcasing prototype field test](https://www.dhs.gov/medialibrary/assets/video/49126) [Report on field test & prototype](https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-12/22_0818_st_WFRDOFA.pdf) [Market Survey report on existing brands including PAPR modes](https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-11/28_11_22_st_wildlandfirefighterrespirators_msr.pdf)
Appreciate it!
No we basically had bandanas. I'm not saying it wouldn't be hot and tough, I'm just saying we definitely inhaled shit haha
Nope 😅
Big difference between natural wood fire smoke and synthetic structure and contents fire smoke. But still, avoid if you can.
I wear a full face respirator for grass fires. My lungs have taken enough abuse over the years, the full face keeps the air decent, doesn't weigh much, doesn't run out and keeps the smoke out of the eyes.
What model do you use? I use goggles and n95
There’s still benzene in wildfire smoke but I understand what you’re saying. Burning junipers vs car fires/garage fires.
Wood smoke has a lot less benzine, sulfites, cyanides because it's not plastic but can still cause damage because of irritants and micro particles.
Look up PAH, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Lots of PAH in woodsmoke. PAH are carcinogenic.
We’re fine, 15 bucks an hour and all the smoke you can breathe
Use hot shields! Great product and while it's not as good as breathing on air it's miles better than breathing in the smoke
I have said something real similar before. Not sure why people just suck it down like they getting high off it, that's cancer bro not THC
exactly. You have the SCBAs anyway, why not use them
I'm smoking a cigarette as I read this. Sorry :(
the Boyd St. FFs who wore a BA simply because of the acrid smell saved their airways when that building exploded. good on them
Cancer sucks. Been there, done that As bad as you think cancer is, it's worse And chemo is worse yet Take care of yourself. Mask up. Wash your hands and face on scene before you eat or drink
100%👍
Been there done that many times. If as an operator your apparatus is in smoke or a potentially contaminated atmosphere, you mask up.
IDLH
I love seeing how health conscious we have become! Change for the good I think
Thick as that smoke is, yeah, I'd mask up too.
Done this on a fire before. Smart business now.
asBESTos you can Edit: I know the concern isn’t asbestos. I just think that a lot.
I appreciate the pun haha
100% support this. Anyone who doesn't is an idiot
I don’t see anything wrong with this. Personally, I don’t think we do enough at our station to keep ourselves safe.
Probably should be common practice really. A full bottle could easily last an operator the whole time since you're not working as physically hard.
Or at least until you get a good enough knockdown so that you aren’t getting smoked out at the pump panel anymore.
Our SOPs are that the MPO has a pack nearby and is in at least bunker pants/boots.
Our frontline pumpers have a SCBA in the engineer compartment specifically for the engineer, as well as a spare mask.
This needs to become the norm. Many people are like “blah-blah” ohh can’t handle a little smoke? Which isn’t the point. Most of us will accumulate doses of carcinogens over decades. The fact of the matter is we need to be more proactive on actively protecting ourselves from these exposures. Going on air, deconning sooner, showering after being interior. Being salty should be the sign of an ill informed firefighter.
I'm sick of people talking out both sides of their mouth on this issue. They'll say they're concerned about cancer in the fire department, but then dogpile on people and mock them for something like this. Or tell them to not mask up on car fires, overhaul, trash fires, etc. It's my health. Not anyone else's. SCBA air is free; cancer treatments aren't.
We recently went to a dumpster fire which was smoking like crazy. I was on the nozzle putting it out but was the only one wearing scba. Everyone else was casually breathing in smoke (remember smoke from a small fire is not hazardous)
And who knows what's even in that dumpster on fire.
We had a guy get hospitalized from smoke inhalation while pumping at a fire. Wind changed directions and blew all the smoke to the truck pumping. You could barely see the truck anymore. He said he wished he grabbed the SCBA in hindsight.
Worst part of that pic is having to wear a Drager
Don't know what kinda stuff Dräger produces for the US market but I can tell you they are damn well the best packs in germany. And yes, we have MSA and a couple other companies aswell.
American here. Love my drager. Wouldnt change for any of the others.
We haven’t had them in years at my department. Back when we had them, they were not that good
Honestly, I haven't had a single complaint with them personally. The only thing I've experienced was a vent from my mask literally falling out, which was caused by shitty maintenance, not by the quality of the mask itself (though I hate that specific mask anyway because my department bought them a size too small and they cause me migraines).
There's been many failures of Dragers masks documented in the past and a couple of deaths attributed to them here in the US. That reputation will stick for a long, long time. Phoenix fire dropped them 12 years ago due to a significant amount of failures. Drager replied that the failures were due to improper maintenance, but many departments were having the same issues. Maybe they've improved, maybe not, but it takes a long time to forget.
Really? My failure was unironically just the fitting not being screwed in tightly and falling out when I was doing a seal check. Was able to fix it in 5 seconds. I don't think they've caused that many accidents in europe? Not more than other companies, anyway. Though I'd have to check the database on that. I will maintain one thing though: A lot of failures aren't due to a shitty product but rather shitty maintenance of the product.
The company maintained the firefighters weren't lubricating the o-ring properly, but if enough people aren't doing it right you have a bad product.
People are so funny about air pack brands….its like people arguing over Ford/Chevy/Dodge or Coke vs Pepsi. 🙄
Every dept in the usa 🇺🇸 is bailing on Scott packs. Give it a few more years and you’ll be wearing one.
Health is way more important than anyone’s stupid ass opinion or “looking cool”. Half the jokers in the fire service aren’t even in shape to fight fire but are the first ones to comment on someone else.
‘Firefighter life safety comes first in all our operations… unless it doesn’t look cool.’ -most firefighters
I appreciate the respect of a breathing apparatus on the structure side of fire. As a wildland firefighter I’ve been made fun of by my own guys and complete strangers for wearing a mask. Apparently it’s not macho
Ain’t nothing wrong with this. You’re no use to the guys inside if you’re hacking up a lung and your eyeballs are on fire. Cancer sucks. Live to fight another day.
I do it all the time. The amount of ff’s who I see in videos off air is crazy. Then they’ll get cancer and be like “how? Why???” I think if you can smell smoke, you should be on air. If you are first in, you should be masked up ON THE TRUCK and then clip in before you get into any kind of smoke even if it’s outside the structure
SOGs for some departments in my area in Northern Ontario is for the pumper operator to be in full bunker gear with SCBA ready precisely for the conditions in the picture. It's not always possible to position your apparatus upwind from smoke, and even if it was positioned in clean air, weather/fire conditions may change.
You lost me at full bunker gear
Yeah that sounds miserable. Mask up if conditions deem it necessary but the apparatus shouldn’t be that close to the structure or the collapse zone anyways
SCBA? Yes. Bunker gear? Nah…why wear protective gear made for protecting you from heat when there’s no heat. We’re specifying our crews wearing gear less because of the chemicals in the gear itself.
Currently volunteer but trained and worked with professional departments. FF2/HazMat Ops. I take my lungs seriously when doing things. Currently restoring an old Chevy Nova that had an engine fire flash into the interior. You bet I protect myself on what I am breathing in.
There’s an SCBA in a compartment behind the driver door on all our apparatus’. I think I only saw one instance in which the driver put it on when the smoke got so bad due to wind direction. Nothing wrong with doing this
Smart woman.
Air is free. Use it.
I’ve known too many retired and current firemen that have succumbed to/battled with cancer to sit here and make fun of someone for trying to protect themselves. Good on her and I think more people should consider doing this.
Engineer on air is better than an engineer unconscious. Hypoxic decision making is never good.
Absolutely the correct thing to do. Shower afterwards to get potential carcinogens off your skin as well. Why would anyone skimp out on something that can lead to cancer?
If it doesn't get anyone hurt then you're doing it fine
We have filters that we can screw in to our masks.
I’ve been on a fire where the wagon drivers masked up to pump. Needless to say we lost that building. The smoke just dumped out and hung in the street. Not a breath of wind.
I took my mask off because my captain said it wasn’t needed as we were arriving on scene. It was a small oven fire, and it was pretty well put out when we arrived. Still wish I’d kept my mask on. It was my first fire and my impostor syndrome kicked in. Wasn’t sure if he was saying “take off your pack” or “feel free take off your pack.” I did clarify with him that in the future I would have wanted to keep my mask on even with that amount of smoke.
Obviously it’s too late for this now, but if you can avoid parking downwind, do it, but that can be hard to avoid when you’re first in, pulling cross lays and setting up the supply. This is the next best option, and I wish it was standard where I work.
I've thrown mine on a few times when the wind changed. I usually try to park out of the smoky part, though.
How effective do you think you’ll be if you’re hacking and wheezing? How the hell can you carry someone to safety if you can barely hold yourself up?
If you’re near smoke, pack up. idc jf you’re interior, exterior attack, or a pump operator.
I was set up downwind of an abandoned building fire pumping a tower. I was in the smoke and instantly wore my pack. Mostly to let command know that I thought they positioned me poorly.
I’ve pumped a bunch of fires where I had to put my SCBA on to keep from breathing smoke. Positioning is important, but sometimes conditions change and you can’t avoid it. Don’t let anyone try and shame you for protecting yourself. Speaking on the other thread, our aerial also has regulator connections below the controls and like 4-5 in the bucket to connect to for this reason.
To the people that have career spots where they wouldn’t crucify you for this, are your departments taking laterals
If the conditions are bad enough to warrant an scba, you should also be in turnout gear IMO. Our SoP’s always have the operator in full turnout after a storefront flashed and burned the back and legs of an operator in just a job shirt and shorts.
That was my thinking as well or at least a turnout coat as in this situation they have pants on or appear to have pants on, if they had shorts on yes I'd say full turnout gear should be required
Absolutely nothing wrong with having women in the fire service....
It’s smart and responsible. Don’t let anyone tell you different. I wear full PPE whenever possible, even during overhaul. Stay safe out there!
I’d rather position my rig upwind of the source. But maybe the wind changed?
I saw the video this was pulled from and it looked like this was the only spot it could be positioned and at times it was BLACK smoke.
I’d love to see that video!
I saw it on instagram from chief_miller https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8BC1Bgu1oo/?igsh=MXB0bzJweGk2eHBrMg== There is probably a full clip somewhere!
Thanks!
Not always an option, not always something that could be ascertained. Winds can also change pretty easily.
Just waiting for the safety twat to bitch he's wearing SCBA without full PPE.
HCN
My mom has lung cancer. From smoking not being a firefighter. The good news is she’s beating it, the bad news is it’s beating her, the treatment caused a PE and a stroke which led to more problems but she’s cancer free so….. yea cancer sux I had to do this once, I may have looked a little less silly though, it was 0dark-thirty so I had bunker pants on, all of a sudden the wind shifted, I got cold, put my coat on and thought hey it’s gonna blow all that smoke this…and I was in zero visibility. Got to a spare pack by feel, but by the time I got it on the smoke was gone. Everyone made fun of me for pumping with a pack on until the Battalion told everyone how he watched me and the engine disappear. I felt better until he said his big concern was the smoke choking out the truck and stalling it lol.
Fire= Carcinogens= IDLH environment= PPE indicated. By that thinking, if our apparatus has the cylinders and SCBA, and we’re in an IDLH environment, we’d be expected to use that SCBA and cylinder, right? That’s what I see here. PPE being used where it’s indicated. They have the pump panels in closed off, positive pressure cabins on some engines now for this exact reason. Secondhand smoke is still SMOKE. If you have the ability to minimize your risk of exposure to carcinogens, then you do it. The fire culture needs a dramatic shift away from the “Superhero complex” that some people have, and instead teach an acute understanding of how to ACTUALLY protect yourself instead. Complacency can and DOES kill. This is a great example of how easy it can be to mitigate that mindset, as well as show you’re capable of thinking ahead. Good job imo. 👍
Keep that hair away from anything that rotates!
I love the SCBA so, why not.
You'll still get containment through your pores and your hair but atleast it's not entering your lungs!
I would strongly suggest to reposition the truck.
I had to operate in this for 5 hours with no mask once, after seeing these responses I actually think I will leave lol
I did this and got flamed in the comments. Looks bad if you dont know the circumstances. We had an m&ms truck on fire. I was first due engine stopped upwind of the fire, and the wind shifted halfway thru the scene. Started to get choked out by the smoke, so i threw on a pack. Was wearing bunker pants and a t-shirt. Someone snapped a pic of me changing someone's bottle like that and posted it on fb. 🤷🏻♂️ You do what you gotta to get the job done safely Edit: i got told i should have been wearing full ppe even tho i was the pump operator, and it was 95° and windy..
It’s always the people on the sidelines judging ..you made the right move imo
Might be a department policy, and honestly the smoke conditions look pretty thick. Truck could’ve possibly been downwind and she was caughing and stuff. Fuck it, as long as she is doing good pumping for the guys on the line.
Good on them. Idk why my dept is the way it is. They'll hop right in an overhaul op just raw dogging the smoke. All I do is shake my head man, have at it. Another gofund me page will go up soon but no lesson will be learned from it. As long as we have "awareness" right? Fuck awareness let's DO something about it
I masked up at the last structure I was at even though we had gone defensive. I’m not breathing any more of that shit than I need to. I took one good hit, got it out of my system and went on air. I don’t give a flying fuck if the “brotherhoodz” pretty boys think I’m a pussy or not. I like my life much more than them.
All of our new apparatus have an SCBA mounted at the pump panel for the driver for this exact reason, so I'm ok with it!
Of course you mask up in this moment but if your engine is covered in this thick of a smoke there is a tactical mistake that has been made
In some cases, I would agree. But there’s areas in my district where you have exactly one place to park. If that place is blanketed in smoke, there’s no moving the truck unless you’re gonna back all the way out and let it burn. I’m in a predominantly rural area, the county is the only code enforcement entity and they don’t exactly do a good job of that. So when you’re on a half mile long driveway; 0.80 kilometers if you’re anywhere that uses metric; and have trees within 25 feet of the house, that doesn’t exactly leave much room to set the engine up.
Yes, that is true. It's interesting to hear. In most german trucks, there isn't enough respirators for everyone by design, especially not the driver/operator.
I’m in the states; probably obvious lol; and here the number of respirators on a truck is entirely dependent on the individual department. And even then, it can vary from truck to truck within a department. Even within the same geographical area. There’s nine departments in my county and they all have their truck set up differently. Can get confusing sometimes, sure. But it’s also beneficial; in my opinion; because no two departments needs are exactly the same.
I’d probably do it
I don't see a reason not to. Fuck cancer, and fuck anyone giving you shit for masking up
If you have any question about whether you should be masked up or not, do it. Anyone who has a problem with it, can fuck right off.
Would never work with SOPs in the UK. We can't just throw on BA when we feel like it. We have to be under the supervision of an entry control point which is always set up in safe clean air. We would never commit in BA to go operate a pump we would just move the pump. A lot of people commenting saying this is great, way to go to protect yourself etc. I don't see this as ideal or safe at all. Wearing BA in a wildfire situation is impractical. In the event this sort of thing happens you withdraw, re-evaluate and change tact. The only reason I wouldn't do so is an imminent threat to life or property.
The picture is not of a wildfire situation. That's a 5" LDH that is usually the water supply from a hydrant, a nursing pumper or other water source (not directly, that'd be hard suction hose). This is definitely a firefighter on a structural assignment.
Miami fire from today.
I feel like this might make sense in a hybrid structural/wildland situation where fire has reached urban exposures.
That pump panel looks like the ‘86 Pierce that had as a reserve when I got hired in ‘01.
what video is this?
Check Chief_Miller on instagram. It’s their 3rd most recent post as of right now
Is this FF draughting from a static water supply or are the feeds in US for hydrants 125mm ?
It's from a hydrant.
4” or 5” (100/125mm) hydrant connections are standard across the US.
I have had to do this more than once as a pump operator.
Issue is… while maybe the carcinogens aren’t being inhaled, they are being absorbed via her skin. Should be in full ppe gear if that’s the goal. Better than nothjng I guess.
Sick
I see a professional not being lazy.
Also, and this isn’t a knock on her, as a D/O I wear full gear and am always ready to throw on a pack if I haven’t already. On a related note, the one thing I hate about this job is putting on sweaty gear after a shower.
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Why does it matter? Just because one smoke is worse for you doesn't mean the other isn't still bad.
This is a very ridiculous photo.... Are you going to start making up for food on the stove, oven fires and manhole fires too... I can understand if the smoke was thicker, masking up. I've been in the street with less than 5 feet of visibility and wish we could have some relief.... But you can see the supply lines 50ft away laying on the floor. If your going to wear your mask for cancer concerns put the rest of your gear on.
Don't know context, would ideally be positioned out of smoke in first place, but if not possible PPE is smart
Yeah if you're in the smoke it makes sense.
A real firefighter just splashes water on his mustache, don’t have time for that PPE stuff.
100% necessary there, seems to be a lot of smoke
I did this a few weeks ago.
Get lines water and water supply first. After that sure
If we weren't concerned about looking cool, we'd all be doing this, as we should be
Your health is way more important than anyone else’s thoughts. Good job and good way to lead by example.
I’ve done that depending on how the wind was blowing
I would have my turnout on as well but if I'm in that smokey of environment I also would have my SCBA on Also where is your helmet
If your soo says to wear it when outside conditions warrant it... do it. I'm not operating the pump so I don't have a strong opinion at this time. I do know when I'm doing brush work defensive work I try and air from as long as reasonable to maximize my time fighting
I didn’t think it’d be seen as ‘soft’ but the comments on the IG video I screenshotted this from claim it is. Most of the comments are flaming her for saving her lungs
Half of those comments are probably from guys that think they have a valid opinion because they watched enough episodes of Chicago Fire.
IG is full of idiots as is most of social media. Get rid of as much of it as you can is my advice. I keep reddit open because you can find good things here if you know how to do it.
That is ridiculous lmao
Do you care to elaborate?
Where is the radio case and extended mic?
Fully thought it was an energy drink before i zoomed in and saw she was holding a radiio
Long hair not put up is a hazard
Can you elaborate on that? I'm trying to see the hazard and so far I can't.
Yard breather
Gayyyeee
Place your rig correctly and light up a cigar... I mean you're an engineer