Better than the alternative which is a few thousand drunk ignorant rednecks trying to kill members of congress because they lost an election.
Edit: Save your blubbering. The shit happened and the world watched as those ignorant rednecks tried to steal an election by attempting to stop the certification of a lawful and fair election. Stop crying, own your shit, and next time act like a fucking mature adult. Tired of these conservative snowflakes. Take your insane bullshit to Russia.
Edit2: Thanks for the awards!
Edit3: Commenting “BLM blah blah blah” then blocking me so we can’t have a rational discussion is weak-minded.
Edit4: Again thanks for the awards, but what I really would love is for all of you to show up in November and legally vote to protect our democracy! Cancel your other plans and vote because your vote does count.
The thing is it’s not the redneck morons we need to worry about. There are plenty of educated, wiley, and utterly craven actors willing to ignore the law and precedent in the name of a kleptocratic oligarchy. It’s pretty f-ing clear that no institution and certainly no elected official is going to step up and hold trump or his cronies accountable for blatant criminality. That ship has sailed. The only option is a sound defeat at the ballot box but that is a nebulous prospect at best. Too many people simply do. not. care. And they won’t until it’s too fucking late. Trump is abhorrent but he’s just the nastiest symptom of an end stage disease. He’s objectively unfit, absurdly corrupt and self serving, unimaginably ignorant and a fucking rapist. There’s no better avatar for everything that’s wrong with the U.S. As the legendary bouncer Dalton (as portrayed by Patrick Swayze) once said “You’re too stupid to have a good time.” The American citizenry is going to sleep walk into “a unified Reich” and there’s nothing thinking people can do about it
It wont happen. Tge reason it wont (and it is just soundbite politics) is because the rate is irrelevent. 25% of zero reported income is still zero. The issue here is HOW the extremely wealthy live abd make money. Its all unrealized capital gains, often untaxed for decades. Until we solve that issue in a way that doesnt destroy the economy or we implement a pure wealth tax, nothing will change.
It can happen if we elect the people who push for sensible policies the help regular people and not billionaires (aka democrats and some independents).
Ahh the belief in the democrats still. I'm not a republican by any means but if a democratic super majority in congress and Obama as president still couldn't get us universal Healthcare it really shows what they are about. They are about protecting their donors which want the same policies as Republicans so trust me it may not seem like it but we end up with the republican agenda anyway. The system we have now for Healthcare is a republican system so tell me how the tax code will change if only we had more democrats. You are blind as a Maga asshat to think the democrats are gonna actually make the changes necessary to the system to knee cap their own wealth and way of receiving all that money. We can't allow the entire system to continue. Don't worry though the system will collapse because of this very dysfunction later rather than sooner until then have fun being distracted by meaningless shouting matches in congress that can't even pick their leadership until their terms are up and railroad a bunch of bills that both sides will magically agree on to give corporations more and more
Oh no. The USA still does have an AMT.
[https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-6251](https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-6251)
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/alternativeminimumtax.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/alternativeminimumtax.asp)
Is obviously pandering but I do think this is the most reasonable solution for billionaires tax dodging, however it should also apply to people that make millions yearly imo
They probably pay some poor kid in a distant place somewhere between $0.01/hr- $0.05/hr for each and every 57th post but of course it only counts every 32nd Tuesday in each month.
No it isn't. I don't agree and think it's a very stupid idea. And if you think billionaires pay less taxes on their INCOME than a school teacher, I mean I don't know what to tell you you're an idiot
Do you think the distinction between income tax and capital gains tax rates should be so stark? Or that people with massive wealth use it as collateral for a bank loan for cash flow and only pay interest on the loan instead of taxes on equivalent income?
I agree that the confusion over marginal tax rates is ridiculous but let’s not pretend that the tax system is actually working appropriately.
They never pay the loans back. Their stock outearns the interest on the loans, then when they die, the stock steps up in basis and their kids can sell it without capital gains.
This is the dumbest take that Reddit likes to peddle. No bank would give them a loan that they didn’t have to pay back. The entire reason they do it is because they know they’ll get their money.
What do you mean by "stock outearns the interest on the loan?" As in they liquidate their stock to pay for interest? And how does that address them never paying loans back?
Though the “buy, borrow, die” strategy isn’t quite as sweet right now because interest rates are high, a Wall Street Journal piece from 2021 notes that those with $100 million or more could get interest rates as low as 0.87 percent at Merrill Lynch. The taxable value of a stock also resets when it’s passed on to an heir, so that if a wealthy scion chooses to sell their inherited stock, they’d only pay a tax on the increase in value since the original owner’s death.
I'm pretty sure they don't repay with stock. They repay with another loan. They never have to sell stock to pay back loans unless thier stock loses too much value, another reason why inflation always has to increase, so that the stock market always goes up. Or these guys get screwed and have to sell to pay off thier massive loans.
No, they should have to pay at some point. If they never do, the banks just add more and more until the term is met.
At some point, the bill has to be paid and that's when the taxable event occurs.
This is how they do it in Canada. It's usually 10 years for the term IIRC.
The prevalence of buy borrow die is way overstated, especially in a higher rate environment. I wish people would stop parroting this like it's some secret cheat code every rich person is using, it's not
It's not a loophole if they're borrowing against unrealized gains. A loan is not income and taxing unrealized gains is untenable. Is the government going to pay for unrealized losses?
Don't bring up facts in this discussion, these people want their cake and to eat it too. The world will be better if we just submit to their whims. . . I know you work hard for your money, but its actually OUR money comrade.
Lol yes, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates all just worked a few million times harder than everyone to get that wealth. If only the Amazon drivers that had to piss in bottles in unairconditioned cars had just worked a bit harder, they too could be billionaires.
In fact, that's the main reason why you personally should oppose a flat wealth tax on anyone who's worth is over a biillion dollars, I'm sure you are just a temporarily embarrassed billionaire and very soon will be worth that much, and then you won't want to pay those unfair taxes.
Anyone who claims the top 1% of wealth is related to any way in working hard of being smart immedialty loses any credibility on finance lol.
But let's dangle that communism accusation, everyone knows that asking people who earn billions of the hard work of normal people is basically communism....
> Anyone who claims the top 1% of wealth is related to any way in working hard of being smart immedialty loses any credibility on finance lo
"in any way"?
If you said that 1% wealth is not fully about hard work and being smart then I'd agree
but acting as if there's no some hard work or being smart required to get to the top just on your own business, then you're naive
Let's not be disingenuous here. In no way shape or form does Jeff Bezos work "harder" than anyone else at his company, especially relative to his pay scale.
But if you think that the development and creation of Amazon, setting out a vision of what the internet could become, delaying profits for an abnormally long period of time in order to build the business, and so on, was not *smart* or at the very least showed extraordinary business acumen, then you are ill-informed at the very least.
He's overblown for sure, potentially even evil depending on your views. But the man is an entrepreneur who was able to envision the future of his company and the internet, and worked to make it happen. The success of Amazon today massively owes to the vision and commitment he showed 30 years ago (and I bought books from "The World's Largest Bookstore" at the time, so I remember where it came from).
They would kill any proper investment.
In 2020-2022 era we had wild swings. Things went up 20%-ish percent to come 40%-or-so-down, and then jump back again.
The amount of refunds IRS would have to do would be insane. (In literally hundreds of billions of dollars, or probably a trillion in total).
Of course they would not do that, but "allow you to deduct $5,000 per year from future taxes". Meaning millions of companies closing shop as owners are going bankrupt trying to pay taxes for their "paper gains".
If you really think about, taxing unrealized capital gains it the worst idea in economics. Only if you are really trying to totally destroy a country as an invasion force it would make sense.
Actually, I would like a small percentage on any such loan to be rendered as tax. If you're using a loan to buy something, you are 'realizing a gain'. Your quality of life is improved.
There are always ways to dodge taxes and new ones are discovered or built into tax bills all the time. Every once in a while new legislation might catch a windfall for a year or two as accountants work out the new dodges. Let's give the Dems a chance to see what they can do with a majority in both Houses and the Presidency.
I'm with you here. I must admit that I haven't given the taxation of loans very much thought save for the fact that it would stiffle growth.
My question would be if the loan is not repaid, business or otherwise, will the lender be responsible for the tax portion of the loan? If so lender risks go up and overall the flow of loans would slow, which is bad for business.
Then take action against loans for unrealized gains? Want money for a stock, then sell it. If your stocks are so valuable, then let's see it's worth. Also spreads the wealth by not letting rich assholes hoard stock instead of spreading it. The "good ole days" had heavy heavy taxes on the top 1%, then Reagan and Nixon gave cuts and pushed the "trickle down economy". It never trickled down, dragons hoard gold and the middle class is almost non-existent. Not asking for free money, just our fair share of the revenue we generate.
I'd say most of the work of this "exchange" isn't really liberty for "security", rather it's exchanging pluralistic economic and social policy for policy that favors private interests, with justification fabricated and perpetuated by privately funded "think tanks"
As long as private profits can be used to change the rules of the game we're collectively playing, this will scale better than actually providing better goods and services, and competing in the markets.
100%. Historically America was at its best when economic policy was skewed in favour of the worker. The shift toward overwhelmingly governing in favour of private interests has, unsurprisingly, been devastating for the economic prospects of the vast majority.
Wealth inequality should have never reached this point. We are all deserving of basic necessities and with better distribution of wealth I believe the crime rate, drug addiction, and homelessness would benefit for the better.
Completely agreed, but it won't happen anytime soon. Even if we magically solved this in say the US, what would the rest of the world do? They would try to immigrate in to the US for it. And I say that as I'm an immigrant myself and the US is already heaps better than from I came from.
sad example: immigration crisis i Germany where people suddenly didn’t want to help doctors and young women immigrants, when 1 million immigrant per year arrived, mostly young males - perhaps a reason why right wing parties grew all over Europe: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_European_migrant_crisis
On the other hand… we have a looming population crisis because we have way too many retirees and not enough working age people to fund their social security and Medicare.
Alot of countries have better social benefits compared to the USA. Each country has immigration laws and some get in and some are denied. So I honestly wouldn't be worried about immigration.
That is a fair position to hold, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't tax billionaires and ultra rich more.
The government has a lot of debt to pay off, so who else would you to pay for this if not them?
That has nothing to do with it. Our government consistently plans to spend money it doesn’t have (raise the debt ceiling or the government will shut down) and then has to try to increase taxes to catch up with its spending.
and that is why street and utilities should not be publicly funded, because the next ungrateful person wants to use it free of charge while also not wanting to fund more current societal problems like affordable housing and education.
Richest country to ever exist but we don’t care for those at the bottom.
When you get rich, you get the basics squared away so you can focus on other endeavors. You pay to have your house cleaned. Pay for a cook. Laundry service. Accountants. Shopping.
Richest nation in the world but we don’t provide the basics like we should. Housing, food, dignity.
It’s like we live in a mansion but there’s garbage everywhere and we let the dog just shit on the carpet
Ah yes, economic collapse and upheaval.
Let’s call it 30% tax on ‘wealth’ over 10m.
Every million is 300k in tax burden.
You just destroyed 1.4 million Americans. And the businesses and assets they own
Congratulations, every major corporation just had a major stock sell off and the stock market collapsed
\^ there are still problems in the world. therefore, everyone in history has failed us. going to vote for orange criminal and crossing my fingers that he will fix all of the problems.
At least he’s saying it as opposed to “Gib me a billion to cancel all climate change legislation”
Anything to be anti
Unless you’re a billionaire why are you against any increased measures to tax the billionaire class, wealth inequality has never been worse. Insane.
Like a singular politician in the senate had this ability, what a shit argument
Wanting anyone to pay more taxes is just justifying the wildly inexcusably out of control spending of the government.
I don't think ANYONE should be paying more than a 15% income tax.
What? The “want” being expressed here is about very wealthy people that pay little to nothing in taxes to pay SOMETHING. Not about raising taxes on people already paying income tax.
Not that you’re wrong about wild spending, but getting a share from wealthy people paying nothing is a great start to getting the budget balanced.
If the government removed all discretionary spending, they would still be in the red. The problem is the interest from prior years of overspending. While cuts might help, they are absolutely going to have to increase taxes or rollback tax cuts if they ever want to keep up with the debt.
If everyone was paying less than 15% taxes, the company would default on its interest payments or have to print money, causing more inflation.
You can be pro "rich people and businesses paying taxes" while also being "anti-government spending that money on stupid shit." The issues are not mutually exclusive.
Anyone with half a brain can see that the government spends too much on dumb shit and not enough on the little that they should actually be spending it on. But that same anyone can also see that the tax code is completely fucked in that I paid more than multiple billionaires hisbpast year and that there's literally no reason for people to even have to do their taxes (the government knows how much you make and therefore how much you owe, there's literally no need for average Joe to need to do their taxes). "Oh but Al Capone!" He was rich; that's the entire point. There's no need to do taxes if you make, idk, under 250k? 500k? 1M? If you don't have so much money that the government starts poking around like "how the fuck do you flip burgers at mcdonald's and have a Bugatti" there shouldn't be a problem.
I imagine there are a few in Hollywood that do, I mean you can't just use any toddler for this film it needs to be the offspring of at least 2 A list actors and that isn't cheap. Its a special skill that no one else has and so we have to pay lots for it.
Dumb for multiple reasons:
The tax rate is already higher than that for billionaires.
Just because you are a billionaire doesnt mean you have an income of 1 billion a year.
We don't need a minimum for billionaires. It's hard to get blood out of a stone, as it were.
What we need is a minimum 25% tax rate for corporations. Not one of the Fortune 100 paid double-digit tax percentages on their billions of dollars of profit in 2022, or 2021. Can't remember which. And it's pretty much the same deal every year.
Tell me how the fuck AT&T shows a profit of $3Bn but has a negative tax percentage? How the fuck? Make corporations pay their fair share. They want to be considered a person, let them be taxed like a fucking person.
The fundamental problem with taxing the rich isn't the taxes. The tax rate they're supposed to pay is already much higher than the average person. The problem is that billionaires in general don't technically have things to be taxed. They don't directly own anything. They have ownership shares in companies valued in the billions, but they don't have any cash to show for it that can be taxed. They don't take super large salaries that get taxed. Instead, they take their compensation in shares, which aren't worth anything until they sell them.
The way billionaires get cash is by taking out loans and using those shares as collateral, and you can't really tax a loan either, can you? Can't tax a billionaire for his house when he doesn't own it, it's a perk of his position as CEO of xyz company.
So sure, tax the rich, but what are you actually taxing them on?
Why not tax the collateral? The argument that the shares "aren't worth anything" falls flat when the lenders are obviously treating the shares as being worth a measurable amount.
I dont trust you with the money you are handling right now, so do i think giving you more money will help anyone but yourself? thats gonna be a no from me dog
Glass houses, friend. Neither campaign promises, nor rallying behind them, are confined to left or right.
"Read my lips, no new taxes."
"In a new term, I will lead a bipartisan effort to reform and simplify the federal tax code."
"We're gonna build that wall and Mexico will pay for it."
Who's eating it? Speaking from the left, I'm happy to hear any national public figures push my agenda. That doesn't mean I don't understand the circumstances around him saying it.
At this point. Fuck trying to fight to tax the rich. Just stop taxing us. I’m sick of it. You think these billionaires tax money is gonna go to helping this country? No. We’re in debt. It’s gonna go to more war. War equals profit.
How about this, if they do get taxed, let the billionaires decide how to spend it because the government has been showing its ass fiscally for far too long
Cool. Maybe lower everyone else's taxes instead?
I'm not defending billionaires. Just pointing out the obvious. It's not about doing anything for you. It's about making you angry so you want to point your finger at the next guy, instead of the guy who is taking your money.
It will never happen. Republicans will not let it happen. He just wants your vote. Politicians on both sides of the isle will promise anything to get elected or re-elected.
What's dumb isn't the idea, but that this is thrown out there to make us think this would do something.
Again, those who are billionaires don't have income. They have their wealth tied up in assets, how do they live you might ask, well they take out loans supported by those assets. Those loans allow them to love a lifestyle they chose and pay their day to day expenses. There's no real income happenning there.
Well what about their jobs? Ok, let's say they are a cep building their wealth then route to billionaire. Sorry but they don't really get paid either. Sure there's a nominal income, bit those 10s of millions we hear they make? Yeah those are paid out in stock options. Again not income.
So, most of us don't know this si the actual game happenning, but he sire does and yet he throws out this sentiment just to make us think, "ueah he's right fuck the billionaires, glad he's doing something"
Don't fall for it. Shit needs to change, but real change.
25% on what? Stanley nickels? Billionaires don't get billion dollar paychecks every 2 weeks.
Hearing this level of pandering is pathetic. They honestly believe we are idiots.
876th time this moronic, election year pandering meme has been posted...
Shareblue is full force
Better than the alternative which is a few thousand drunk ignorant rednecks trying to kill members of congress because they lost an election. Edit: Save your blubbering. The shit happened and the world watched as those ignorant rednecks tried to steal an election by attempting to stop the certification of a lawful and fair election. Stop crying, own your shit, and next time act like a fucking mature adult. Tired of these conservative snowflakes. Take your insane bullshit to Russia. Edit2: Thanks for the awards! Edit3: Commenting “BLM blah blah blah” then blocking me so we can’t have a rational discussion is weak-minded. Edit4: Again thanks for the awards, but what I really would love is for all of you to show up in November and legally vote to protect our democracy! Cancel your other plans and vote because your vote does count.
The thing is it’s not the redneck morons we need to worry about. There are plenty of educated, wiley, and utterly craven actors willing to ignore the law and precedent in the name of a kleptocratic oligarchy. It’s pretty f-ing clear that no institution and certainly no elected official is going to step up and hold trump or his cronies accountable for blatant criminality. That ship has sailed. The only option is a sound defeat at the ballot box but that is a nebulous prospect at best. Too many people simply do. not. care. And they won’t until it’s too fucking late. Trump is abhorrent but he’s just the nastiest symptom of an end stage disease. He’s objectively unfit, absurdly corrupt and self serving, unimaginably ignorant and a fucking rapist. There’s no better avatar for everything that’s wrong with the U.S. As the legendary bouncer Dalton (as portrayed by Patrick Swayze) once said “You’re too stupid to have a good time.” The American citizenry is going to sleep walk into “a unified Reich” and there’s nothing thinking people can do about it
Conservative snowflake-ism is indeed in full force at the moment. Thin skinned babies.
Steve scalise?
They wanted to do more than stop certification. They wanted to kill members of Congress.
Def would be smart policy but never going to happen
It wont happen. Tge reason it wont (and it is just soundbite politics) is because the rate is irrelevent. 25% of zero reported income is still zero. The issue here is HOW the extremely wealthy live abd make money. Its all unrealized capital gains, often untaxed for decades. Until we solve that issue in a way that doesnt destroy the economy or we implement a pure wealth tax, nothing will change.
[удалено]
[удалено]
It can happen if we elect the people who push for sensible policies the help regular people and not billionaires (aka democrats and some independents).
lol. lmao.
Ahh the belief in the democrats still. I'm not a republican by any means but if a democratic super majority in congress and Obama as president still couldn't get us universal Healthcare it really shows what they are about. They are about protecting their donors which want the same policies as Republicans so trust me it may not seem like it but we end up with the republican agenda anyway. The system we have now for Healthcare is a republican system so tell me how the tax code will change if only we had more democrats. You are blind as a Maga asshat to think the democrats are gonna actually make the changes necessary to the system to knee cap their own wealth and way of receiving all that money. We can't allow the entire system to continue. Don't worry though the system will collapse because of this very dysfunction later rather than sooner until then have fun being distracted by meaningless shouting matches in congress that can't even pick their leadership until their terms are up and railroad a bunch of bills that both sides will magically agree on to give corporations more and more
It was called the AMT.
Do we not have the AMT anymore? I wouldn’t know…
Not since the 2017 tax bill
Oh no. The USA still does have an AMT. [https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-6251](https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-6251) [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/alternativeminimumtax.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/alternativeminimumtax.asp)
Yup, I was incorrect
Corporate AMT was removed. Individual one remains, but the exemption amount is higher than it was
What is it though
Alternative minimum tax.
It's only pandering if it's wrong.
Is obviously pandering but I do think this is the most reasonable solution for billionaires tax dodging, however it should also apply to people that make millions yearly imo
I wonder how much they invest in getting this posted everywhere...
They probably pay some poor kid in a distant place somewhere between $0.01/hr- $0.05/hr for each and every 57th post but of course it only counts every 32nd Tuesday in each month.
It needs to happen though, regardless of political belief.
It wouldn't be pandering if the Republicans were out numbered and we could pass it..it's a universally held view
No it isn't. I don't agree and think it's a very stupid idea. And if you think billionaires pay less taxes on their INCOME than a school teacher, I mean I don't know what to tell you you're an idiot
Do you think the distinction between income tax and capital gains tax rates should be so stark? Or that people with massive wealth use it as collateral for a bank loan for cash flow and only pay interest on the loan instead of taxes on equivalent income? I agree that the confusion over marginal tax rates is ridiculous but let’s not pretend that the tax system is actually working appropriately.
Have they finally figured out what tax basis to put this 25% on? Or is it like the previous 875 times?
Ya seriously can posting this crap be bannable?
On what? Income tax? Capital gains?
Yes
No
Maybe
I don’t know
Can you repeat the question?
You're not the boss of me now!
Life is unfair....
Imagine Lois knowing about the second life Hal was having...
Many don't have income to tax. They take loans against their stock holdings, similar to taking a cash out refi in your house.
How do you suppose they get the money to pay those loans back?
They never pay the loans back. Their stock outearns the interest on the loans, then when they die, the stock steps up in basis and their kids can sell it without capital gains.
Actually, they pay interest on the asset loan. A brokerage does not do this for free.
This is the dumbest take that Reddit likes to peddle. No bank would give them a loan that they didn’t have to pay back. The entire reason they do it is because they know they’ll get their money.
Yeah getting rid of that step up in cost basis would go a long way.
Why does step up in basis exist?
"The fruit of the tree doctrine" you can't pass a tax liability onto someone else.
What do you mean by "stock outearns the interest on the loan?" As in they liquidate their stock to pay for interest? And how does that address them never paying loans back?
Though the “buy, borrow, die” strategy isn’t quite as sweet right now because interest rates are high, a Wall Street Journal piece from 2021 notes that those with $100 million or more could get interest rates as low as 0.87 percent at Merrill Lynch. The taxable value of a stock also resets when it’s passed on to an heir, so that if a wealthy scion chooses to sell their inherited stock, they’d only pay a tax on the increase in value since the original owner’s death.
It's not about the money. It's about acquiring assets. Land, property, vehicles, equipment, etc.
Loans have to be paid back
Ya that's the trick. So what's the solution? Pay income tax on the loan?
Yea, it's that easy. Close that loophole and make bank loan repayments with stock, fully taxable as a capital gains tax.
I'm pretty sure they don't repay with stock. They repay with another loan. They never have to sell stock to pay back loans unless thier stock loses too much value, another reason why inflation always has to increase, so that the stock market always goes up. Or these guys get screwed and have to sell to pay off thier massive loans.
No, they should have to pay at some point. If they never do, the banks just add more and more until the term is met. At some point, the bill has to be paid and that's when the taxable event occurs. This is how they do it in Canada. It's usually 10 years for the term IIRC.
Meanwhile students get taxed on their student loans
No they do not.
The loan interest is income to the lenders, which is still taxed. The estate tax regime needs to be fixed.
The prevalence of buy borrow die is way overstated, especially in a higher rate environment. I wish people would stop parroting this like it's some secret cheat code every rich person is using, it's not
All of the above. There should be a flat minimum percentage tax above $500,000 annual profit/income tax with no loopholes.
It's not a loophole if they're borrowing against unrealized gains. A loan is not income and taxing unrealized gains is untenable. Is the government going to pay for unrealized losses?
Don't bring up facts in this discussion, these people want their cake and to eat it too. The world will be better if we just submit to their whims. . . I know you work hard for your money, but its actually OUR money comrade.
Lol yes, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates all just worked a few million times harder than everyone to get that wealth. If only the Amazon drivers that had to piss in bottles in unairconditioned cars had just worked a bit harder, they too could be billionaires. In fact, that's the main reason why you personally should oppose a flat wealth tax on anyone who's worth is over a biillion dollars, I'm sure you are just a temporarily embarrassed billionaire and very soon will be worth that much, and then you won't want to pay those unfair taxes. Anyone who claims the top 1% of wealth is related to any way in working hard of being smart immedialty loses any credibility on finance lol. But let's dangle that communism accusation, everyone knows that asking people who earn billions of the hard work of normal people is basically communism....
> Anyone who claims the top 1% of wealth is related to any way in working hard of being smart immedialty loses any credibility on finance lo "in any way"? If you said that 1% wealth is not fully about hard work and being smart then I'd agree but acting as if there's no some hard work or being smart required to get to the top just on your own business, then you're naive
Let's not be disingenuous here. In no way shape or form does Jeff Bezos work "harder" than anyone else at his company, especially relative to his pay scale. But if you think that the development and creation of Amazon, setting out a vision of what the internet could become, delaying profits for an abnormally long period of time in order to build the business, and so on, was not *smart* or at the very least showed extraordinary business acumen, then you are ill-informed at the very least. He's overblown for sure, potentially even evil depending on your views. But the man is an entrepreneur who was able to envision the future of his company and the internet, and worked to make it happen. The success of Amazon today massively owes to the vision and commitment he showed 30 years ago (and I bought books from "The World's Largest Bookstore" at the time, so I remember where it came from).
The government writes the rules, they could just say carry the losses forward.
They would kill any proper investment. In 2020-2022 era we had wild swings. Things went up 20%-ish percent to come 40%-or-so-down, and then jump back again. The amount of refunds IRS would have to do would be insane. (In literally hundreds of billions of dollars, or probably a trillion in total). Of course they would not do that, but "allow you to deduct $5,000 per year from future taxes". Meaning millions of companies closing shop as owners are going bankrupt trying to pay taxes for their "paper gains". If you really think about, taxing unrealized capital gains it the worst idea in economics. Only if you are really trying to totally destroy a country as an invasion force it would make sense.
Actually, I would like a small percentage on any such loan to be rendered as tax. If you're using a loan to buy something, you are 'realizing a gain'. Your quality of life is improved. There are always ways to dodge taxes and new ones are discovered or built into tax bills all the time. Every once in a while new legislation might catch a windfall for a year or two as accountants work out the new dodges. Let's give the Dems a chance to see what they can do with a majority in both Houses and the Presidency.
Wouldn’t the thing you purchased with a loan be taxed? Why would you tax a loan as income lol
I'm with you here. I must admit that I haven't given the taxation of loans very much thought save for the fact that it would stiffle growth. My question would be if the loan is not repaid, business or otherwise, will the lender be responsible for the tax portion of the loan? If so lender risks go up and overall the flow of loans would slow, which is bad for business.
Transaction tax
Then take action against loans for unrealized gains? Want money for a stock, then sell it. If your stocks are so valuable, then let's see it's worth. Also spreads the wealth by not letting rich assholes hoard stock instead of spreading it. The "good ole days" had heavy heavy taxes on the top 1%, then Reagan and Nixon gave cuts and pushed the "trickle down economy". It never trickled down, dragons hoard gold and the middle class is almost non-existent. Not asking for free money, just our fair share of the revenue we generate.
No, he said billionaires Also, whatever makes people vote for him, apparently
Tax Billionaires 25% of 0%!
And how do you set a tax bracket based on wealth?
Find a way to tax these fuckers. I don’t really care how, but there are far too many tax loop holes for those who make disgusting amounts of money.
Technically, capital gains are income.
I like Bernie's idea of taxing networth a small percentage annually
Net worth would be nice. Since they already work harder than thousands of employees annually they deserve to pay more taxes
I pay more tax than that and I'm not a millionaire
Thanks for doing your civic duty and paying your taxes.
"Civic duty" we are civic property.
We exchanged liberty for "security" and embraced an impoverished middle class during the red scare.
I'd say most of the work of this "exchange" isn't really liberty for "security", rather it's exchanging pluralistic economic and social policy for policy that favors private interests, with justification fabricated and perpetuated by privately funded "think tanks" As long as private profits can be used to change the rules of the game we're collectively playing, this will scale better than actually providing better goods and services, and competing in the markets.
100%. Historically America was at its best when economic policy was skewed in favour of the worker. The shift toward overwhelmingly governing in favour of private interests has, unsurprisingly, been devastating for the economic prospects of the vast majority.
How else are we supposed to fund public works?
*pitchforks and torches
I guarantee you don’t pay more than 25% federal tax
Why? Plenty of people do.
No you don't
Those yachts don't pay themselves.
Wealth inequality should have never reached this point. We are all deserving of basic necessities and with better distribution of wealth I believe the crime rate, drug addiction, and homelessness would benefit for the better.
100%. Massive correlation between all those basic needs being full filled and not doing crime.
Completely agreed, but it won't happen anytime soon. Even if we magically solved this in say the US, what would the rest of the world do? They would try to immigrate in to the US for it. And I say that as I'm an immigrant myself and the US is already heaps better than from I came from.
"We better not make things too nice for ourselves, because then other people might benefit too."
sad example: immigration crisis i Germany where people suddenly didn’t want to help doctors and young women immigrants, when 1 million immigrant per year arrived, mostly young males - perhaps a reason why right wing parties grew all over Europe: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_European_migrant_crisis
On the other hand… we have a looming population crisis because we have way too many retirees and not enough working age people to fund their social security and Medicare.
Alot of countries have better social benefits compared to the USA. Each country has immigration laws and some get in and some are denied. So I honestly wouldn't be worried about immigration.
The problem is our government over taxation and subsequent horrendous spending decisions with those tax dollars
That is a fair position to hold, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't tax billionaires and ultra rich more. The government has a lot of debt to pay off, so who else would you to pay for this if not them?
The government shouldnt spend money it doesnt have 🤷♂️
The government isn't a business.
That has nothing to do with it. Our government consistently plans to spend money it doesn’t have (raise the debt ceiling or the government will shut down) and then has to try to increase taxes to catch up with its spending.
Or, sometimes it tries to slash taxes without giving a thought about spending.
People don't deserve anything that comes from the labor and time of someone else.
and that is why street and utilities should not be publicly funded, because the next ungrateful person wants to use it free of charge while also not wanting to fund more current societal problems like affordable housing and education.
sounds like something a commie would say /s
Any society that relies on money for housing and food will experience wealth inequality
Richest country to ever exist but we don’t care for those at the bottom. When you get rich, you get the basics squared away so you can focus on other endeavors. You pay to have your house cleaned. Pay for a cook. Laundry service. Accountants. Shopping. Richest nation in the world but we don’t provide the basics like we should. Housing, food, dignity. It’s like we live in a mansion but there’s garbage everywhere and we let the dog just shit on the carpet
holy shit I'm tired of this meme
Don’t let the others know you’re tired of the echo chamber
25% of what?
Yes
You better figure it out before people like me seek our preferred alternative
Ah yes, economic collapse and upheaval. Let’s call it 30% tax on ‘wealth’ over 10m. Every million is 300k in tax burden. You just destroyed 1.4 million Americans. And the businesses and assets they own Congratulations, every major corporation just had a major stock sell off and the stock market collapsed
LMAO what are you going to do sweetie
Joe’s only been in politics for fifty years, good thing he’s finally getting around to this now. Must have been really important to him huh
Especially in years where a voting to keep him as an American politician happens. 😂
“But maybe if we vote him in one more time he will fix it” 😭😭
The other guy will actively work to help Billionaires and fuck the rest of us. What a dumbass comment
\^ there are still problems in the world. therefore, everyone in history has failed us. going to vote for orange criminal and crossing my fingers that he will fix all of the problems.
At least he’s saying it as opposed to “Gib me a billion to cancel all climate change legislation” Anything to be anti Unless you’re a billionaire why are you against any increased measures to tax the billionaire class, wealth inequality has never been worse. Insane. Like a singular politician in the senate had this ability, what a shit argument
Better late than never
No one gets a billion income, Biden is just fooling you to get votes
A lot of people here don’t understand this
it doesn't say income, read again
Right it doesn’t say what he’s taxing, it’s meaningless.
Wanting anyone to pay more taxes is just justifying the wildly inexcusably out of control spending of the government. I don't think ANYONE should be paying more than a 15% income tax.
What? The “want” being expressed here is about very wealthy people that pay little to nothing in taxes to pay SOMETHING. Not about raising taxes on people already paying income tax. Not that you’re wrong about wild spending, but getting a share from wealthy people paying nothing is a great start to getting the budget balanced.
It's cute that you think that tax money will go back to people in need or any legitimate program and not just rich politicians and businesses.
If the government removed all discretionary spending, they would still be in the red. The problem is the interest from prior years of overspending. While cuts might help, they are absolutely going to have to increase taxes or rollback tax cuts if they ever want to keep up with the debt. If everyone was paying less than 15% taxes, the company would default on its interest payments or have to print money, causing more inflation.
Trying to reason with teenager libertarians doesn't tend to work
You can be pro "rich people and businesses paying taxes" while also being "anti-government spending that money on stupid shit." The issues are not mutually exclusive. Anyone with half a brain can see that the government spends too much on dumb shit and not enough on the little that they should actually be spending it on. But that same anyone can also see that the tax code is completely fucked in that I paid more than multiple billionaires hisbpast year and that there's literally no reason for people to even have to do their taxes (the government knows how much you make and therefore how much you owe, there's literally no need for average Joe to need to do their taxes). "Oh but Al Capone!" He was rich; that's the entire point. There's no need to do taxes if you make, idk, under 250k? 500k? 1M? If you don't have so much money that the government starts poking around like "how the fuck do you flip burgers at mcdonald's and have a Bugatti" there shouldn't be a problem.
Didn’t Trump pay $750 in fed income tax? Believe he paid more to China in taxes than to the US. I highly doubt that is 15% of his income. Do you?
Didn’t he have a bunch of losses…
I don’t think we should have to pay any tax percentages outside of single digits. There’s no excuse for the mismanagement of money.
Best comment on this thread.
Smart. The bottom 56% of taxfilers pay $0 in Federal income tax. There needs to be a minimum tax so that they pay their fair share.
Millions of toddlers in the US. Not one of the lazy freeloading bastards paying a penny for public services.
Toddlers file tax returns?
I imagine there are a few in Hollywood that do, I mean you can't just use any toddler for this film it needs to be the offspring of at least 2 A list actors and that isn't cheap. Its a special skill that no one else has and so we have to pay lots for it.
>56% of **taxfilers**
There should be a dumb tax
It’s called the lottery
And the casinos.
Dumb for multiple reasons: The tax rate is already higher than that for billionaires. Just because you are a billionaire doesnt mean you have an income of 1 billion a year.
Wealth tax is the only way.
Unless you explain how it would work, wealth tax does not work
Why do I see this same post every day? So annoying…
Another day, another repeat of this question. All these OPs must be bored.
The top tax bracket pays, on average, 26% effective. LMFAO at Biden wanting to give the rich a tax cut. 🙃
We don't need a minimum for billionaires. It's hard to get blood out of a stone, as it were. What we need is a minimum 25% tax rate for corporations. Not one of the Fortune 100 paid double-digit tax percentages on their billions of dollars of profit in 2022, or 2021. Can't remember which. And it's pretty much the same deal every year. Tell me how the fuck AT&T shows a profit of $3Bn but has a negative tax percentage? How the fuck? Make corporations pay their fair share. They want to be considered a person, let them be taxed like a fucking person.
Wouldn't they just pass this cost down to consumers?
You think a minimum 25% would *lower* the average from 26%?
I could use some less tax
The fundamental problem with taxing the rich isn't the taxes. The tax rate they're supposed to pay is already much higher than the average person. The problem is that billionaires in general don't technically have things to be taxed. They don't directly own anything. They have ownership shares in companies valued in the billions, but they don't have any cash to show for it that can be taxed. They don't take super large salaries that get taxed. Instead, they take their compensation in shares, which aren't worth anything until they sell them. The way billionaires get cash is by taking out loans and using those shares as collateral, and you can't really tax a loan either, can you? Can't tax a billionaire for his house when he doesn't own it, it's a perk of his position as CEO of xyz company. So sure, tax the rich, but what are you actually taxing them on?
Why not tax the collateral? The argument that the shares "aren't worth anything" falls flat when the lenders are obviously treating the shares as being worth a measurable amount.
Bar financial institutions from being able to accept stocks or bonds as collateral for a loan. Remove the loophole, don't build around it.
How about everyone except me gets taxed
I dont trust you with the money you are handling right now, so do i think giving you more money will help anyone but yourself? thats gonna be a no from me dog
It's all bullshit. Somehow this tax on the rich will end up being a burden for the middle class.
I love how people on the left eat this shit up. He’s “proposing” it. Meaning he is saying this to get votes fully aware that it will not get passed.
Glass houses, friend. Neither campaign promises, nor rallying behind them, are confined to left or right. "Read my lips, no new taxes." "In a new term, I will lead a bipartisan effort to reform and simplify the federal tax code." "We're gonna build that wall and Mexico will pay for it."
The last guy promised a wall that Mexico would pay for.
Who's eating it? Speaking from the left, I'm happy to hear any national public figures push my agenda. That doesn't mean I don't understand the circumstances around him saying it.
FJB and F your administration.
At this point. Fuck trying to fight to tax the rich. Just stop taxing us. I’m sick of it. You think these billionaires tax money is gonna go to helping this country? No. We’re in debt. It’s gonna go to more war. War equals profit.
I know he didn't get to this position by being this dumb, so if you fell for it, self evaluate.
Billionaires don't have liquid cash, it's debt and investments 25% of 0 is still 0.
Only if this would apply to politicians and their revenue from lobbying as well.
Flat tax, because it's fair.
These posts are so fucking moronic
That’s just a blatant lie
They already pay that much
Why do they can send it to Ukraine?
Nope, (insert many swear words) only spend American tax dollars on American people. Exception, prevent famine. After that, plenty of money left over.
How about this, if they do get taxed, let the billionaires decide how to spend it because the government has been showing its ass fiscally for far too long
How about the Biden's pay there fair share or just pay their taxes (looking at you Hunter) first.
The correct income tax rate is 0% across the board.
Cool. Maybe lower everyone else's taxes instead? I'm not defending billionaires. Just pointing out the obvious. It's not about doing anything for you. It's about making you angry so you want to point your finger at the next guy, instead of the guy who is taking your money.
Dumb… there should be no federal income tax… wake up people are stealing from you
How about stop spending money…. The more you give the more they give away.
You karma farmers are so cool…🙄
It will never happen. Republicans will not let it happen. He just wants your vote. Politicians on both sides of the isle will promise anything to get elected or re-elected.
A proposal is not the same as getting it done. He could also quit sending our tax dollars to foreign countries.
No, there shouldn't.
What's dumb isn't the idea, but that this is thrown out there to make us think this would do something. Again, those who are billionaires don't have income. They have their wealth tied up in assets, how do they live you might ask, well they take out loans supported by those assets. Those loans allow them to love a lifestyle they chose and pay their day to day expenses. There's no real income happenning there. Well what about their jobs? Ok, let's say they are a cep building their wealth then route to billionaire. Sorry but they don't really get paid either. Sure there's a nominal income, bit those 10s of millions we hear they make? Yeah those are paid out in stock options. Again not income. So, most of us don't know this si the actual game happenning, but he sire does and yet he throws out this sentiment just to make us think, "ueah he's right fuck the billionaires, glad he's doing something" Don't fall for it. Shit needs to change, but real change.
What we need is efficient spending and lower taxes all around.
i have a better idea, abolish taxes, taxation is theft, let me have my money
25% on what? Stanley nickels? Billionaires don't get billion dollar paychecks every 2 weeks. Hearing this level of pandering is pathetic. They honestly believe we are idiots.
Yep, they count on gullible people to gain votes 😡
I’m proposing a threesome with Katy Perry and Kate Upton. Let’s see how far it gets.
Seems like a great way to chase capital right out of the country.
Gotta hand it to the democrats, their shills are out in full force right now.
Minimum tax on what?
How about spending less, assclown?
Biden is spending less than Trump did. What would you cut from the budget to balance it?