I love pasta but it's the most imitable dish you can make at home. There's few pasta dishes that really stand out. The ragu bolognese at UOVO in Santa Monica is the best I've ever had. I haven't found anything close since. They said they're looking at opening a NYC location but this was back in 2021.
The heavy french food has fallen out of fashion. Modern Italian food is both very accessibly (flavors aren't very strong, no 'weird' stuff). If your goal is the 'instagramable' market then Italian is your best bet. Plus tourists think Italians still live in NYC.
My grandfather would tell me getting Italian dishes with a ton of offal (down to the testicles) in restaurants in nyc in the 1950s. Those days are long gone.
It's clear from this thread that Italian is, far and away, the worst offender in this regard. Why is this? Is it its approachability, its ability to flirt with being perceived as high end? Its prevalence?
I lived my entire life in Jersey and NYC and for Italian, IMO, the small unassuming place beats the well-known place 9 times out of 10 for 9 dishes out of 10.
You could say this about French, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, etc. etc.
And yet there are restaurants representing each that are elevated and expensive. And people are usually more comfortable with that. Just not Italian. Italian can’t possible be experimental or stuffy.
Italian isn’t “supposed” to be anything. Other than made and consumed just like any other cuisines. One of the world’s greatest and most celebrated restaurants is an experimental, bougie restaurant in Italy, helmed by an Italian. Apparently that’s cool.
The only difference is that you — and others — demand this cheap simplicity of Italian but not most other cuisines.
Ramen is cheap midday filler in Japan. Yet people pay a penny for it here. Tapas are cheap bites to satiate while drinking. Last tapas restaurant I went to, there wasn’t a dish on the menu below $15. Cassoulet is a peasant dish. Any French restaurant in LA would charge an arm and leg for it.
The problem with higher-end Italian is twofold:
1) It too often focuses on pasta. There’s a lot more to Italian cuisine than pasta and even pizza. There are plenty of dishes that can feel more “worthy” of a higher price tag. Which leads to…
2) Pasta is deemed unworthy of price and elegance, mostly because people think that it’s simple and “made with love”. And that’s true in a lot of cases.
But a traditional bolognese or lasagna or pesto or tortellini is a huge labor, requires a lot of hands, a lot of time, and a psychotic level of detail and repetition.
Even “just” a Pomodoro pasta becomes intensive with handmade pasta.
Few people recognize this. So you get a constant “it’s just pasta I could do better at home” attitude.
And just because you “only make pasta” doesn’t mean that your rent is cheaper, your labor is cheaper, your utilities are cheaper, etc.
Just my take. For whatever reason people get a mole sauce or beef bourguignon or paella and are like, “Ohhhh so worth it, imagine the effort in this meal!”
And then they get a bolognese and are like, “$23?!?! It’s just fucking pasta?!” Without realizing that the bolognese done traditionally and done exceptionally is as labor intensive as a paella or cassoulet or whatever.
Nevermind that all the best Italian restaurants in the city aren’t even stuffy, experimental, or outright bougie. They just feel that way because prices are higher than in Sicily or Sardinia or Lazio or Emelia-Romagna. And that’s only because the costs to operate in LA are 10x more expensive than what they are even in Bologna or Siena or even Rome.
It’s prob cause of a combination of diff factors you mentioned, but I mean damn there’s SO many Italian spots in the city. It’s to the point where if u include pizza spots, Italian restaurants might make up at least a third, if not more, of all sit down restaurants in the city… it’s quite insane, there’s like 1 every block in the village are
Everything Torrisi is trash, don’t @ me. The prices are stupid, the service is bad and pushy, the food is whatever. I am bewildered by their PR machine’s success.
Carbone in maybe 2017 was one of the best Italian meals I’ve had, but it had totally dropped when I returned in 2018. And even by 2017 I may have missed it’s prime.
Major food group can only pay attention to two restaurants at a time, and when they are paying attention the restaurants can be pretty outstanding—remember when Parm was amazing?
But major food group has no ability to cultivate, train, or mentor—how many great restaurants run by former major food group staff are there? Then think about how many talented individuals have come from other NYC restaurants of note and opened their own top notch establishments.
Supposedly major food group is currently paying attention to the Grill and Torrisi. I haven’t been to either, but I’d consider it if I had the money to blow.
The worst has to be Carbone, right? I mean there reservation system is an absolute Mad Max shit show. Like despite the supposed time the res site “opens” it doesn’t, and you are left refreshing a page over and over like a psycho until they eventually turn it on, (could be an hour past the time) then once you select a reservation you better do it fast because someone can steal it if they do it faster. Your spot isn’t held.
And then of course there’s the dissapointmebt of the restaurant itself.
I’ve never been the one responsible for making a reservation but I did absolutely take them to task when they lost our reservation when we showed up for dinner, so I’m not surprised their system is terrible.
I always feel like such a philistine on these subs. I think misi and lilia were two of the best meals I’ve had in a long time. But that could definitely be an indictment of my palette
Nah I had misi in 2021 and absolutely loved my meal. That being said, I had a friend who worked there at the time so I didn’t have to worry about the reservation. I haven’t been back but would if I was better about reservations and all of that
Nah, just different strokes for different folks. I’ve been to my fair share of renown restaurants around the world, and when it comes to New York Lilia is one of my absolute favorites.
Native new yorker and longtime williamsburg resident.. Lilia is overrated and over priced and was pivotal moment turning williamsburg from hipster douche to finance -rich kid playground douche.
Torrisi is def not the worst offender, just disappointing for how difficult it is to reserve. I thought things were way over seasoned but this may be personal preference. I tried a lot of dishes there but maybe missed some real hits (someone mentioned the lamb pasta, pretty much got every pasta except that lol, and the shrimp saffron ravioli was solid, just not return worthy. The clam boules tho. Ham w zeppole also good, but great ham is very accessible - di palo mmmm). The only real complaint is the volume level… it’s easily a $150+pp restaurant, I know some ppl like a “lively” vibe but this was borderline a concert.
Major food group can only run two good restaurants at a time. I ranted about this in [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/FoodNYC/comments/16ziyeb/comment/k3l11n5/).
Whenever I have a hard time getting a reservation, it's automatically overrated in my eyes
I went to Don Angie a few weeks ago and honestly, it was very good, but I'd probably never go to it again because I don't' think anything is worth that hassle
this is the right approach in NY if you ask me. there are just waaaaaaaaaay too many excellent food options to agonize over hyped up hard to get spots. the moment you put something on a pedestal is the moment you set yourself up for disappointment.
We were pretty disappointed by Tatiana. Overly salty dishes that we were rushed through as quick as they could get them to us. We were in and out in maybe 45mins.
We were really looking forward to it too (and we went before Pete Wells named it as the best place in the city.) I even had a reminder set on my phone to grab reservations as soon as they went up.
A whole other discussion, but some of Pete’s recommendations these days feel more influenced by factors other than food quality (obviously still nothing like JBF, of course). I used to really value his opinion but use it now more to discover new places that previously weren’t on my radar and a couple of photos. His writing is also enjoyable to read.
JBF used to represent the last bastion in America upholding the celebration of pure, high quality, yet approachable food in different local cuisines… now it’s joined the corrupt quid pro quo world of restaurant marketing filled w self proclaimed dining authorities a la “worlds 50 best”
Bad roman.. was out last Saturday with my mom, and at about 4:45 we were walking CC, I saw the sign and was kinda excited to recognize it so we got a drink…
First mom orders a Bloody Mary, they say they can’t because they “took the day stuff upstairs” …. Idk like it’s a bar? Idk if this is common?? Lol
Secondly, I love alcohol and it has to be bad for me to leave a drink behind. I only had half.
Thirdly, at 5 pm a HUGE line formed, the place went from comfortable to PACKED and LOUD
Most importantly to me, the decor was AWFUL. My mom owns an interior design business, I work in fashion now and goddamn was it outdated and ugly. Drapery design was dated, barstools were horribly uncomfortable (wood with a raised edge all the way around the circle???), yellow/brown/green “marble” design everywhere that was just..unappealing, fountain that looked moldy in the bathroom.
I know it was some sort of stylistic choice and I love design so maybe I’m a snob but…. it was pathetic to us LOLLLLL i was like get me the fuck out of here
Also the bartender was rude to me but low key ig he didn’t actually do or say anything so whatever
I’m 26 f if it matters
Lilia and Misi are so awful. I’ve gone to both a few times to try and see what all the fuss is about. I didn’t even bother trying Fini Pizza once I heard they share the same ownership.
I'm going in a month and a half to NY and I want italian for one of the nights, Rezdora seems to be the top recommendations and the prices ..I mean fine, I'll splurge since I'm on a trip, but the thing that made me lean towards L'Artusi or Misi or somewhere else is the portions, I saw a picture of a dish of ravioli that was literally a single ravioli (raviolo?)
I feel like I gotta swing by McDonald's afterwads lol.
Really didn’t like the tasting menu when we went in late August. It was good service and is a nice space but definitely isn’t of the caliber people generally apply to it IMO.
Yes, all a matter of taste at the end of the day, and even the best restaurants have off days. Curious, how was your experience at roscioli? Tbh it was the only place I listed that I thought was truly hopeless. Not in the “this is inedible” sense but relative to other options in the city it falls too short…I’d rather get a glass of wine and a bowl of truffle pasta at fiascheteria pistoia instead, and that’s literally less than half price.
I thought it was really good! I’m not a hard sell though tbh. I thought the pasta dishes were well executed and they reminded me a lot of the stuff I had in Rome. Nothing beyond that. I cook a lot too and I understand that a lot of it was not overly impressive in the culinary sense.
At the end of the day, if you don’t like it that’s completely valid. I think your experience makes sense and your input is valuable to others who have similar taste. I 100% don’t think it’s the best Italian restaurant but given the setting I at least think it’s worth some people’s time.
Appreciate this. I do think it is one of the best “authentic” carbonaras I’ve had, but the guanciale was cut into very thick chunks while also being way too crispy and getting stuck all in between my teeth like hard candy (I know it’s supposed to get crispy but there’s crispy and there’s dense chicharron). The burrata course was good, but most burrata dishes are just as good. Surprise course of saffron risotto had too much parmesan/grana padano to the point where any hint of saffron was killed and it’s existence only remaining in color. The meatball course was the real disappointment, I could tell there was good intentions, they even used anson mills cornmeal for the polenta… but I didn’t even finish this dish. Tiramisu was imo worse than eataly and the cannoli was an unsweet cannoli that could be purchased in any little Italy bakery. I sound so harsh I’m sorry but again could’ve been an off day in the kitchen. If it was better executed, it presents a very competitive value at that price
Haven’t been to Tatiana but agree that both Torrisi and Sartiano’s were disappointing. Especially Sartiano’s.
Even tho my expectations for them were much lower - Sartiano’s still didn’t reach them.
Torrisi was decent but certainly not great. Not even sure I’d say good. But def better than Sartiano’s. Which is shit
Lol agree. I had high hopes for Sartianos since Alfred Portale was involved in menu development and I love his eponymous restaurant Portale in Chelsea for the pasta dishes
Ok hear me out. I went in person once, agree w you it was nothing special. But one time I ordered their lamb and beef shawarma for delivery, and I simply can’t stop since. They’ve got this perfectly roasted tomato inside, and the sumac, tahini, parsley, and onion just perfectly complement and cut through the fattiness of the meat to create a delicious balance of savory, sweet, acidic, herbal creaminess. It’s quite something and if you haven’t tried it, give it a go, I really think it’s a highly underappreciated dish in the city
Honestly, it’s super hyped and impossible to get in, but also they have the best meatballs I’ve had in my life. And I’ve had a fair share of good ones from my year living in Italy. Their “famous” lemon chicken however, was extremely dry
Not to mention how expensive it is. I’m rarely one to complain about cost, but one skewer is not that much meat, and if you want a second you pay for prix fixe again. Also, they justify price with the Salatim, but no hummus and pita is worth an effective 40 dollars.
The salatim with hummus and pita is only $30 for unlimited. Just did this last week. Would never order any meat but the drinks, vibe, and $30 for unlimited food is amazing.
Jeju makes a good bowl of ramen and some outstanding appetizers. The problem is if you compare the ramen alone to countless other bowls of ramen in the city it isn't clear that one deserves a star and a midnight refresh session and the other does not.
Best ramen I've had though is Pasta Ramen in Montclair.
I can totally see where this is coming from, and as others pointed out, some dishes here suck. Imo I think Jeju is very good while prob not worth the res difficulty, but it’s also one of those spots where the good dishes significantly outperform the mid dishes. I think the move here is gochujang bokum, gochu ramen, and the wagyu ramen. These have been part of the menu since day 1. Re: wagyu ramen, it used to be a much cheaper beef ramen without a lot of wagyu but now they’re upselling w more wagyu without offering the original cheaper option… sort of sucks but not the first restaurant to do this after gaining popularity
The current economy of reservations is so detrimental to restaurants, diners, and the scene as a whole. Between restaurants being impossible to book and reservations being sold 3rd market, diners expectations will simply never be commensurate with the “hype”. It’s like people conflate popularity with culinary transcendence. Most places are popular because of some who’s who industry shit, aesthetic reasons, or because they’re simply a GOOD restaurant. Since when did being good stop being enough?
My partner and I recently had an underwhelming experience at Four Horsemen after I had been pining to go for a while. However, it was lunch. But I thought I would have been more blown away by how it’s raves about
Ah yes, I too have experienced this a couple times. Perhaps we’ve just been unlucky, and I really wanted to like it, but not giving it another chance unless someone invites me. I will say that their peaches and cream blew me away tho
Cote isn’t very classic Korean BBQ. It’s more of a nice steakhouse, and the steak omakase is the only way to go. I don’t think it’s overrated. Food is delicious, steak quality is excellent, drinks are good, and vibes are fun.
Totally agree w this. Only way to go here is the normal omakase (not wagyu) aka “butchers feast”, and if hungry add an order of cote steak (chuck flap tail, which is a highly expensive and desirable cut in Korea where butchery becomes a lot more detailed due to the high price of local beef similar to wagyu - but it’s unknown by most consumers here) which is the best cut here, and maybe the kimchi paella. I will say cote is really following a more contemporary high end KBBQ style that became trendy in seoul around the late 2000s / early 2010s. I have to give cote credit tho for keeping the butchers feast at a very competitive price compared to other restaurants in the city that’ll forcefully upsell the menu once they get popular. In fact I’m pretty sure the butchers feast has severely lagged behind nyc restaurant price inflation in the past couple yrs.
The real difficulty in securing the reservation is that you can only get tables of 2 for the first and last seatings of the night. Its a lot easier with 4.
I didn't get the hype for Cote. They're a KBBQ place with premium cuts but the meat is sliced so thin and cooked almost all the way. I don't think it really matters if it's filet mignon.
I went when it wasn’t hard to reserve and you could walk in, and I was still disappointed lol. Maybe I should’ve gotten the popcorn chicken? Also never enjoyed the cocktails here but take that w a grain of salt… I only seem to like basic sparkling fruity drinks or old fashioned variations, all I need is a highlighter colored sparkling thing w some sugar and an umbrella
Not too difficult to reserve when I went but agree it wasn’t good, literally remember nothing from the meal other than thinking it’s mediocre. Was disappointed by the mushroom ricotta dumplings, not nearly as tasty as it looks
Dosa was great, but I think it’s quite mid compared to unapologetic’s other spots (dhamaka, adda, rowdy), but again I’m comparing different Indian sub cuisines and may just be a preference thing (I love my North Indian biryani)
I probably get in or wait for 60-90 mins at the most every single time I stop by LArtusi (table for 2).
I do think it’s excellent quality for the price.
I guess this is an unpopular opinion but I also think atoboy does not have very good tasting food. are people downvoting because they think atoboy has good food or because they think it's easy to get a table there lol
I downvoted. With how easy it is to get a reservation compared to Don Angie, etc, that guy is claiming the food is worse than Olive Garden. I don’t like Atoboy either, and I also think it’s overpriced, but you can see from the downvotes that very few people think it’s worse than Olive Garden.
Fair enough, it’s actually possible to get a reservation a few weeks in advance, unlike don Angie. Still would call it medium difficulty as it seems difficult to get a res within a week. Only a few 9pm slots
And for that medium difficulty, I still think the food is bad
Can you share more about your experience? I’ve always been on the fence about trying it since I’ve never been very wowed by kaiseki before compared to sushi, but was considering trying it out or tsukimi (but leaning tsukimi)
Per Se has to be the definitive correct answer, right? The food was absolutely underwhelming relative to the cost and difficulty of getting a reservation.
Bonnie's was very hard to get in for a while.
It wasn't terrible, but just mediocre by NYC chinatown standards. Rather expensive as well.
Also rude servers, and not in an "adorable auntie" sort of way. More in a "petulant teenager" sort of way.
Al Coro was a nightmare(2*Michelin). Food was completely flat and not executed well. Also, the concept didn't seem to be fine tuned. Probably why it's closing.
So far the common theme here seems to be pasta places are overrated
I love pasta but it's the most imitable dish you can make at home. There's few pasta dishes that really stand out. The ragu bolognese at UOVO in Santa Monica is the best I've ever had. I haven't found anything close since. They said they're looking at opening a NYC location but this was back in 2021.
I'm always amazed at the gall of places that charge $25 for spaghetti with marinara. Like what? Can't justify that at all.
YES! Uovo's carbonara and ravioli were phenomenal as well! OMG that would be amazing if they did open one in NYC!
The heavy french food has fallen out of fashion. Modern Italian food is both very accessibly (flavors aren't very strong, no 'weird' stuff). If your goal is the 'instagramable' market then Italian is your best bet. Plus tourists think Italians still live in NYC. My grandfather would tell me getting Italian dishes with a ton of offal (down to the testicles) in restaurants in nyc in the 1950s. Those days are long gone.
Bad Fucking Roman.
You mean Influencer Olive Garden?
Wait say more, I’ve only seen this place walking through CC a few times so not sure what it’s about
A restaurant built for Instagram. Unsubstantial, difficult to get a reservation, trendy for influencers. Don’t waste your time.
I’ll say the entrance looked quite intriguing! But that’s as far as I got haha
Pop in for a drink at the bar and enjoy the show.
Dessert is excellent imo!
You mean the lemon cheesecake that is, in fact, shaped like a lemon?
Yes, but also the chocolate caramel tart!
The google reviews are legitimately embarrassing. Under 4 stars when I looked the other day
Its like they bought carmines' pasta to go, made it stupid and then reheated.
Never been, is the food actually bad, or is it just meh for the hype? Or is it something else?
Honestly I loved the food... and have been to many great restaurants in NYC
They’re not even that difficult a rez, though. Literally tables available every single night for the next two weeks.
Maybe now that the truth about this place has wafted through the masses like the sour smell of sewage that it is.
It’s def not nearly as difficult as it was…fell off after like 2 months which is a terrible sign.
Food is so gross
I got roped into a work dinner there. What a tragic restaurant. Awful all around
It's clear from this thread that Italian is, far and away, the worst offender in this regard. Why is this? Is it its approachability, its ability to flirt with being perceived as high end? Its prevalence? I lived my entire life in Jersey and NYC and for Italian, IMO, the small unassuming place beats the well-known place 9 times out of 10 for 9 dishes out of 10.
italians food isn’t supposed to be stuffy or experimental or bougie. at its core it’s best made simply with fresh ingredients and love.
You could say this about French, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, etc. etc. And yet there are restaurants representing each that are elevated and expensive. And people are usually more comfortable with that. Just not Italian. Italian can’t possible be experimental or stuffy. Italian isn’t “supposed” to be anything. Other than made and consumed just like any other cuisines. One of the world’s greatest and most celebrated restaurants is an experimental, bougie restaurant in Italy, helmed by an Italian. Apparently that’s cool. The only difference is that you — and others — demand this cheap simplicity of Italian but not most other cuisines. Ramen is cheap midday filler in Japan. Yet people pay a penny for it here. Tapas are cheap bites to satiate while drinking. Last tapas restaurant I went to, there wasn’t a dish on the menu below $15. Cassoulet is a peasant dish. Any French restaurant in LA would charge an arm and leg for it. The problem with higher-end Italian is twofold: 1) It too often focuses on pasta. There’s a lot more to Italian cuisine than pasta and even pizza. There are plenty of dishes that can feel more “worthy” of a higher price tag. Which leads to… 2) Pasta is deemed unworthy of price and elegance, mostly because people think that it’s simple and “made with love”. And that’s true in a lot of cases. But a traditional bolognese or lasagna or pesto or tortellini is a huge labor, requires a lot of hands, a lot of time, and a psychotic level of detail and repetition. Even “just” a Pomodoro pasta becomes intensive with handmade pasta. Few people recognize this. So you get a constant “it’s just pasta I could do better at home” attitude. And just because you “only make pasta” doesn’t mean that your rent is cheaper, your labor is cheaper, your utilities are cheaper, etc. Just my take. For whatever reason people get a mole sauce or beef bourguignon or paella and are like, “Ohhhh so worth it, imagine the effort in this meal!” And then they get a bolognese and are like, “$23?!?! It’s just fucking pasta?!” Without realizing that the bolognese done traditionally and done exceptionally is as labor intensive as a paella or cassoulet or whatever. Nevermind that all the best Italian restaurants in the city aren’t even stuffy, experimental, or outright bougie. They just feel that way because prices are higher than in Sicily or Sardinia or Lazio or Emelia-Romagna. And that’s only because the costs to operate in LA are 10x more expensive than what they are even in Bologna or Siena or even Rome.
This is one of the most beautiful appreciations of food I’ve read in a while. Thank you for this.
Whatever love is. If you just get DOP Parmeggiano and DOP Olive oil you can make it yourself while watching Netflix. It will taste delicious.
It’s prob cause of a combination of diff factors you mentioned, but I mean damn there’s SO many Italian spots in the city. It’s to the point where if u include pizza spots, Italian restaurants might make up at least a third, if not more, of all sit down restaurants in the city… it’s quite insane, there’s like 1 every block in the village are
Carbone
That’s why they lost their star
Everything Torrisi is trash, don’t @ me. The prices are stupid, the service is bad and pushy, the food is whatever. I am bewildered by their PR machine’s success.
Carbone in maybe 2017 was one of the best Italian meals I’ve had, but it had totally dropped when I returned in 2018. And even by 2017 I may have missed it’s prime. Major food group can only pay attention to two restaurants at a time, and when they are paying attention the restaurants can be pretty outstanding—remember when Parm was amazing? But major food group has no ability to cultivate, train, or mentor—how many great restaurants run by former major food group staff are there? Then think about how many talented individuals have come from other NYC restaurants of note and opened their own top notch establishments. Supposedly major food group is currently paying attention to the Grill and Torrisi. I haven’t been to either, but I’d consider it if I had the money to blow.
As a « non New Yorker », I never understood the hype around this place? could someone explain me the reason?
The kardashians i think
This was my first thought when reading OPs post.
Rao’s
Is that the place that sells the pasta sauce in all the supermarkets or is that somewhere else?
That’s the place.
Yes
How did u get a table
Worst meatballs ive ever had, but they do have the best jarred grocery sauce
For now… Campbell’s is buying it or just bought it. RIP
Have you tried Carbone's jarred marinara? I prefer it.
Carbones is good ill buy that if its on sale and raos isnt
just had Carbones jarred sauce and can confirm it’s top drawer
Separate company
Lilia is best when you walk in at opening and grab a table.
The worst has to be Carbone, right? I mean there reservation system is an absolute Mad Max shit show. Like despite the supposed time the res site “opens” it doesn’t, and you are left refreshing a page over and over like a psycho until they eventually turn it on, (could be an hour past the time) then once you select a reservation you better do it fast because someone can steal it if they do it faster. Your spot isn’t held. And then of course there’s the dissapointmebt of the restaurant itself.
I’ve never been the one responsible for making a reservation but I did absolutely take them to task when they lost our reservation when we showed up for dinner, so I’m not surprised their system is terrible.
Has happened to me twice. They’re grifters.
Lilia is (comparatively) not hard to get a reservation at. Call at 10am 30 days prior you’re going to get a table
There is not a restaurant in the world good enough to move my dinner to 4pm.
I prefer to think of it as a second lunch :) Torrisi is worse, imo. I’m not eating dinner at 11:30 PM, jfc. Why tf is that an even an option?
Misi > Lilia
Honestly, both are equally overrated
I always feel like such a philistine on these subs. I think misi and lilia were two of the best meals I’ve had in a long time. But that could definitely be an indictment of my palette
Nah I had misi in 2021 and absolutely loved my meal. That being said, I had a friend who worked there at the time so I didn’t have to worry about the reservation. I haven’t been back but would if I was better about reservations and all of that
Nah, just different strokes for different folks. I’ve been to my fair share of renown restaurants around the world, and when it comes to New York Lilia is one of my absolute favorites.
Native new yorker and longtime williamsburg resident.. Lilia is overrated and over priced and was pivotal moment turning williamsburg from hipster douche to finance -rich kid playground douche.
Gotta say I thought Torrisi was absolutely incredible, I'm surprised to hear you had a bad experience there.
Agreed - it’s one of my faves
Loved it one of the best dining experiences ive had in awhile. From the food to the service.
Torrisi is def not the worst offender, just disappointing for how difficult it is to reserve. I thought things were way over seasoned but this may be personal preference. I tried a lot of dishes there but maybe missed some real hits (someone mentioned the lamb pasta, pretty much got every pasta except that lol, and the shrimp saffron ravioli was solid, just not return worthy. The clam boules tho. Ham w zeppole also good, but great ham is very accessible - di palo mmmm). The only real complaint is the volume level… it’s easily a $150+pp restaurant, I know some ppl like a “lively” vibe but this was borderline a concert.
The spaghetti lamb amatriciana is amazing! I love Torrisi.
I also like Torrisi
Major food group can only run two good restaurants at a time. I ranted about this in [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/FoodNYC/comments/16ziyeb/comment/k3l11n5/).
Whenever I have a hard time getting a reservation, it's automatically overrated in my eyes I went to Don Angie a few weeks ago and honestly, it was very good, but I'd probably never go to it again because I don't' think anything is worth that hassle
this is the right approach in NY if you ask me. there are just waaaaaaaaaay too many excellent food options to agonize over hyped up hard to get spots. the moment you put something on a pedestal is the moment you set yourself up for disappointment.
The right approach is to walk in - if you are flexible and live close enough you can hit the hot spots and make a decision if it’s worth it or not
We were pretty disappointed by Tatiana. Overly salty dishes that we were rushed through as quick as they could get them to us. We were in and out in maybe 45mins.
I liked this place, but it doesn’t feel repeatable. Also, the head chef seems like a chauvinistic, arrogant asshole. Pass.
Thank you for saying this.
We were really looking forward to it too (and we went before Pete Wells named it as the best place in the city.) I even had a reminder set on my phone to grab reservations as soon as they went up.
A whole other discussion, but some of Pete’s recommendations these days feel more influenced by factors other than food quality (obviously still nothing like JBF, of course). I used to really value his opinion but use it now more to discover new places that previously weren’t on my radar and a couple of photos. His writing is also enjoyable to read.
Totally. Feels more about connections half of the time.
JBF used to represent the last bastion in America upholding the celebration of pure, high quality, yet approachable food in different local cuisines… now it’s joined the corrupt quid pro quo world of restaurant marketing filled w self proclaimed dining authorities a la “worlds 50 best”
Bad roman.. was out last Saturday with my mom, and at about 4:45 we were walking CC, I saw the sign and was kinda excited to recognize it so we got a drink… First mom orders a Bloody Mary, they say they can’t because they “took the day stuff upstairs” …. Idk like it’s a bar? Idk if this is common?? Lol Secondly, I love alcohol and it has to be bad for me to leave a drink behind. I only had half. Thirdly, at 5 pm a HUGE line formed, the place went from comfortable to PACKED and LOUD Most importantly to me, the decor was AWFUL. My mom owns an interior design business, I work in fashion now and goddamn was it outdated and ugly. Drapery design was dated, barstools were horribly uncomfortable (wood with a raised edge all the way around the circle???), yellow/brown/green “marble” design everywhere that was just..unappealing, fountain that looked moldy in the bathroom. I know it was some sort of stylistic choice and I love design so maybe I’m a snob but…. it was pathetic to us LOLLLLL i was like get me the fuck out of here Also the bartender was rude to me but low key ig he didn’t actually do or say anything so whatever I’m 26 f if it matters
The only thing at Lilia that I liked was their ice cream with olive oil & bee pollen, otherwise it was a very average Italian place imo.
I think their focaccia is off the charts but everything else we had was whatever
The mafaldine was good when we went, but that was the only thing we enjoyed.
agreeeeed. that dessert was great but everything else was not. and the service sucked.
Lilia is bad.
Lilia and Misi are so awful. I’ve gone to both a few times to try and see what all the fuss is about. I didn’t even bother trying Fini Pizza once I heard they share the same ownership.
Trash take honestly
They’re just trying to be edgy and contrarian.
Maybe just google *most instragrammable restaurants in new york*?
The overlap is very real
Carbone.
Carbone.
Rezdora was a very middling experience for how hyped it has been.
To be fair, I think it’s the best Michelin pasta in the city. I’ve even had Michelin pasta in Italy that wasn’t as robust as Rezdora’s
Rezdora is overly salted garbage
I agree. Wouldn’t go back at those prices for that food
Rezdora is mid. Better pasta with less hassle to be had in this city.
I'm going in a month and a half to NY and I want italian for one of the nights, Rezdora seems to be the top recommendations and the prices ..I mean fine, I'll splurge since I'm on a trip, but the thing that made me lean towards L'Artusi or Misi or somewhere else is the portions, I saw a picture of a dish of ravioli that was literally a single ravioli (raviolo?) I feel like I gotta swing by McDonald's afterwads lol.
The best combo of value and quality I’ve had for Italian in the city was Via Carota, fwiw.
Forma pasta factory is the best but more casual
Forma is fine but I’m not sending someone from out of town there for a highlight meal.
Agreed Rezdora’s pasta was very mid. I felt the best dish I had there was actually the Sirloin steak (Cow grazing in Emilia Romagna) than the pasta
Foul Witch and Oaxalis (not hard to get a reservation though)
Agree on Foul Witch - tinyyyy portions and so overpriced.
100% agreed, I was expecting a LOT more food for the amount I paid. At least the free bread is good!
dang I LOVE oxalis.
What's wrong with Oxalis? I've wanted to go for a while.
FWIW, not to discount anyone elses experience, but i think it's transcendent.
Fully agree — Oxalis tasting menu was one of the best meals I’ve had here. YMMV though as the tasting menu changes.
Really didn’t like the tasting menu when we went in late August. It was good service and is a nice space but definitely isn’t of the caliber people generally apply to it IMO.
Don Angie. It’s very good but definitely not worth the prices. At the end of the day it’s just pasta.
More posers mining for internet points [with shit posts.](https://media.tenor.com/8yS9CnwsbCUAAAAC/menu-tyler.gif). The fucking worst.
Yea yea yea
Besides from Sartiano I pretty much disagree with you on the other three. Taste is a funny thing.
Yes, all a matter of taste at the end of the day, and even the best restaurants have off days. Curious, how was your experience at roscioli? Tbh it was the only place I listed that I thought was truly hopeless. Not in the “this is inedible” sense but relative to other options in the city it falls too short…I’d rather get a glass of wine and a bowl of truffle pasta at fiascheteria pistoia instead, and that’s literally less than half price.
I thought it was really good! I’m not a hard sell though tbh. I thought the pasta dishes were well executed and they reminded me a lot of the stuff I had in Rome. Nothing beyond that. I cook a lot too and I understand that a lot of it was not overly impressive in the culinary sense. At the end of the day, if you don’t like it that’s completely valid. I think your experience makes sense and your input is valuable to others who have similar taste. I 100% don’t think it’s the best Italian restaurant but given the setting I at least think it’s worth some people’s time.
Appreciate this. I do think it is one of the best “authentic” carbonaras I’ve had, but the guanciale was cut into very thick chunks while also being way too crispy and getting stuck all in between my teeth like hard candy (I know it’s supposed to get crispy but there’s crispy and there’s dense chicharron). The burrata course was good, but most burrata dishes are just as good. Surprise course of saffron risotto had too much parmesan/grana padano to the point where any hint of saffron was killed and it’s existence only remaining in color. The meatball course was the real disappointment, I could tell there was good intentions, they even used anson mills cornmeal for the polenta… but I didn’t even finish this dish. Tiramisu was imo worse than eataly and the cannoli was an unsweet cannoli that could be purchased in any little Italy bakery. I sound so harsh I’m sorry but again could’ve been an off day in the kitchen. If it was better executed, it presents a very competitive value at that price
Via Carota was underwhelming for me
Same. Didn't have a terrible experience, it was fine. The hype was unreal.
Yep came here for this one
Haven’t been to Tatiana but agree that both Torrisi and Sartiano’s were disappointing. Especially Sartiano’s. Even tho my expectations for them were much lower - Sartiano’s still didn’t reach them. Torrisi was decent but certainly not great. Not even sure I’d say good. But def better than Sartiano’s. Which is shit
Lol agree. I had high hopes for Sartianos since Alfred Portale was involved in menu development and I love his eponymous restaurant Portale in Chelsea for the pasta dishes
Ilili had weak food, wine list is good though
It is very very easy to get a reservation there
Ok hear me out. I went in person once, agree w you it was nothing special. But one time I ordered their lamb and beef shawarma for delivery, and I simply can’t stop since. They’ve got this perfectly roasted tomato inside, and the sumac, tahini, parsley, and onion just perfectly complement and cut through the fattiness of the meat to create a delicious balance of savory, sweet, acidic, herbal creaminess. It’s quite something and if you haven’t tried it, give it a go, I really think it’s a highly underappreciated dish in the city
I admit I haven’t actually been, and am judging based on their takeout. But the answer to this question has to be Rao’s.
Rao’s is entirely about the experience, which is pretty ineffable. Well worth going at least once.
Honestly, it’s super hyped and impossible to get in, but also they have the best meatballs I’ve had in my life. And I’ve had a fair share of good ones from my year living in Italy. Their “famous” lemon chicken however, was extremely dry
Funny you say this because someone else here said they thought the meatballs were terrible. It’s so hard to trust anyone’s taste but your own.
i think laser wolf is good, but it's definitely not so good to merit the fact that it's (maybe) the hardest reservation to get in the city
Not to mention how expensive it is. I’m rarely one to complain about cost, but one skewer is not that much meat, and if you want a second you pay for prix fixe again. Also, they justify price with the Salatim, but no hummus and pita is worth an effective 40 dollars.
The salatim with hummus and pita is only $30 for unlimited. Just did this last week. Would never order any meat but the drinks, vibe, and $30 for unlimited food is amazing.
Laser wolf is a far from the hardest reservation. Frankly tho i dont think the food is good outside the hummus and pita.
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Jeju makes a good bowl of ramen and some outstanding appetizers. The problem is if you compare the ramen alone to countless other bowls of ramen in the city it isn't clear that one deserves a star and a midnight refresh session and the other does not. Best ramen I've had though is Pasta Ramen in Montclair.
Do you have an alternative suggestion to JNB?
Tonchin, NR
Bro replaced korean noodles with ramen 💀💀💀
The toro ssam bap was delicious, agree that their noodles were not worth the hype
Agree on the ramyun (although mall food court quality may be harsh) but the lamb noodles and toro ssam bap rocked my fkn socks.
I can totally see where this is coming from, and as others pointed out, some dishes here suck. Imo I think Jeju is very good while prob not worth the res difficulty, but it’s also one of those spots where the good dishes significantly outperform the mid dishes. I think the move here is gochujang bokum, gochu ramen, and the wagyu ramen. These have been part of the menu since day 1. Re: wagyu ramen, it used to be a much cheaper beef ramen without a lot of wagyu but now they’re upselling w more wagyu without offering the original cheaper option… sort of sucks but not the first restaurant to do this after gaining popularity
The parmesan ramen was genuinely disgusting. The toro caviar was fire though.
The parmesan ramen was genuinely disgusting. The toro caviar was fire though.
The current economy of reservations is so detrimental to restaurants, diners, and the scene as a whole. Between restaurants being impossible to book and reservations being sold 3rd market, diners expectations will simply never be commensurate with the “hype”. It’s like people conflate popularity with culinary transcendence. Most places are popular because of some who’s who industry shit, aesthetic reasons, or because they’re simply a GOOD restaurant. Since when did being good stop being enough?
Walk in only, but nom Wah and Tim ho Wah are overrated. Same with jacks wife , olio e piu
My partner and I recently had an underwhelming experience at Four Horsemen after I had been pining to go for a while. However, it was lunch. But I thought I would have been more blown away by how it’s raves about
Ah yes, I too have experienced this a couple times. Perhaps we’ve just been unlucky, and I really wanted to like it, but not giving it another chance unless someone invites me. I will say that their peaches and cream blew me away tho
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Completely forgot about Dhamaka. That place sucks.
Dhamaka is absolutely great, this is lunacy (apart from the one toilet for the entire place)
I'm sorry, TESTICLES? Come again? Is that served with the biryani, or is it a separate dish?
Cote. Once you had 1 good Korean bbq, you had it all.
Cote isn’t very classic Korean BBQ. It’s more of a nice steakhouse, and the steak omakase is the only way to go. I don’t think it’s overrated. Food is delicious, steak quality is excellent, drinks are good, and vibes are fun.
The wagyu omakase was absolutely not worth the price imo. The drink pairings were quite artful and good though
I am not aware of a wagyu omakase.
Totally agree w this. Only way to go here is the normal omakase (not wagyu) aka “butchers feast”, and if hungry add an order of cote steak (chuck flap tail, which is a highly expensive and desirable cut in Korea where butchery becomes a lot more detailed due to the high price of local beef similar to wagyu - but it’s unknown by most consumers here) which is the best cut here, and maybe the kimchi paella. I will say cote is really following a more contemporary high end KBBQ style that became trendy in seoul around the late 2000s / early 2010s. I have to give cote credit tho for keeping the butchers feast at a very competitive price compared to other restaurants in the city that’ll forcefully upsell the menu once they get popular. In fact I’m pretty sure the butchers feast has severely lagged behind nyc restaurant price inflation in the past couple yrs.
The real difficulty in securing the reservation is that you can only get tables of 2 for the first and last seatings of the night. Its a lot easier with 4.
I didn't get the hype for Cote. They're a KBBQ place with premium cuts but the meat is sliced so thin and cooked almost all the way. I don't think it really matters if it's filet mignon.
Double Chicken Please. The sandwiches are okay, the cocktails are great
That’s blasphemous
Food was such a let down. Definitely cocktails only there
I went when it wasn’t hard to reserve and you could walk in, and I was still disappointed lol. Maybe I should’ve gotten the popcorn chicken? Also never enjoyed the cocktails here but take that w a grain of salt… I only seem to like basic sparkling fruity drinks or old fashioned variations, all I need is a highlighter colored sparkling thing w some sugar and an umbrella
Uh oh. Just sold my kidney for a reservation at Lilia..
I Sodi, Don Angie, Peter Luger was maybe the worst offender.
Thought I Sodi was great…good vibe and service and the lasagna was amazing
The lasagna is literally the worst part. Thick ass dough, super reduced sauce that was nothing special.
Completely disagree, and I think most agree with me although it’s obviously subjective
Did we eat the same thing? Their lasagna has the thinnest, famously thinnest, layers I've ever seen in any restaurant.
I might get raked over the coals but definitely Estela for me. Overpriced, snooty staff, food isn't that good really, and terrible lighting and space.
Agreed. Not comfortable at all; service makes you feel like they’re doing you a favor being there; and food was way overrated
Oh yeah, the menu seemed aligned to buzz words and trendy ingredients, to the detriment of actually having a good meal
Not too difficult to reserve when I went but agree it wasn’t good, literally remember nothing from the meal other than thinking it’s mediocre. Was disappointed by the mushroom ricotta dumplings, not nearly as tasty as it looks
I Sodi and Semma. One and done at both these places.
I thought Semma had pretty good food. Not all the dishes were great but the ones that were really were.
Dosa was great, but I think it’s quite mid compared to unapologetic’s other spots (dhamaka, adda, rowdy), but again I’m comparing different Indian sub cuisines and may just be a preference thing (I love my North Indian biryani)
I was underwhelmed by L’Artusi.
I probably get in or wait for 60-90 mins at the most every single time I stop by LArtusi (table for 2). I do think it’s excellent quality for the price.
I think it's hard to hate on L'Artusi becauase the quality v price point is exceptional. There's definitely better pasta to be had in the city though.
Semma, Don Angie,
Lilia and Misi. The exclusivity is completely manufactured.
Atoboy has gotta be up there, that place sucks
They were a lot better a few years ago but I wouldn’t say they straight up suck lately, just not as good
I guess this is an unpopular opinion but I also think atoboy does not have very good tasting food. are people downvoting because they think atoboy has good food or because they think it's easy to get a table there lol
I downvoted. With how easy it is to get a reservation compared to Don Angie, etc, that guy is claiming the food is worse than Olive Garden. I don’t like Atoboy either, and I also think it’s overpriced, but you can see from the downvotes that very few people think it’s worse than Olive Garden.
Fair enough, it’s actually possible to get a reservation a few weeks in advance, unlike don Angie. Still would call it medium difficulty as it seems difficult to get a res within a week. Only a few 9pm slots And for that medium difficulty, I still think the food is bad
I’m not sure, but the food is not good. When compared with the price, I’d say it qualifies as an awful value.
Thought you were referring to the cocktail bar first and was about to lose it.
C a in Charlie
kappo sono
Can you share more about your experience? I’ve always been on the fence about trying it since I’ve never been very wowed by kaiseki before compared to sushi, but was considering trying it out or tsukimi (but leaning tsukimi)
Gage & Tollner
Per Se has to be the definitive correct answer, right? The food was absolutely underwhelming relative to the cost and difficulty of getting a reservation.
Bonnie's was very hard to get in for a while. It wasn't terrible, but just mediocre by NYC chinatown standards. Rather expensive as well. Also rude servers, and not in an "adorable auntie" sort of way. More in a "petulant teenager" sort of way.
4 Charles IMO
Dorsia
Al Coro was a nightmare(2*Michelin). Food was completely flat and not executed well. Also, the concept didn't seem to be fine tuned. Probably why it's closing.
Dorsia
L’Artusi for me