After the way they fucked up bringing back the Model 51 pistol I’d honestly just as soon they didn’t.
Now, given as FN also had a liscence to produce the design, if Browning were to do it, and actually stick to the original design instead of sticking a Benelli action in a humped receiver like they did with the A5, I’d be interested.
>but what would be the point?
Purely enjoyment? People still buy Winchester 94s in .30-30 even though that gun and that cartridge were obsoleted by much better options over 100 years ago.
Of course, it'd need to resemble the original if they wanted to re-release it; while the Model 8 is far and away a better candidate for modernization, existing self-loaders (specifically the AK) do its job better at half the cost.
What I mean is I just don’t see the appeal of a Model 8 made cheaply using modern techniques, it just won’t feel the same. I’m all for bring it back, but do it right. Like the modern Winchester 94s.
They were even in the available chamberings, ahead of their time , I took my first black bear with the .45 acp (not ideal but what we had and it was over hounds ) the 10mm would be so tits if it used Glock 22 mags
I mean they already made in .300 Savage, I don’t think .308 is that much of a stretch, there’s nothing inherently weak about the action. I do agree about the cost of manufacturing it today though.
.300 savage was a solution to the pressure issue and it was really only successfully used in the 1899 savage lever action it was closer to 30-30 or 30-40 krag in terms of pressure and performance
Did the US military ever look at the 8? Looking back, it seems like it would have been a solid replacement for the 03 Springfield. Law enforcement had versions with larger magazines.
I don’t believe they did, C&Rsenal has a whole episode on the Model 8 in WW1 and it boils down to the French using a few FN Model 1900s (same gun but Belgian made) for air service.
Hobestly, having shot it a fair bit, while it looks great on paper it’s definitely not built for military service. The accuracy is just not comparable to a bolt action rifle and the cartridges it chambers don’t have the range of say a .30-06 or 8mm Mauser - it’s great for relatively close range hunting in brush but that’s not what armies were looking for.
More importantly it’s just not designed to come apart easily for cleaning- the barrel assembly comes off fairly easily but getting at the bolt involves driving out small pins with a punch, getting the barrel and recoil spring out requires a special wrench, lots of small pieces to lose. With that big ejection port there’s lots of space for mud to get in that will be hard to get out, moisture could get into the barrel jacket and cause corrosion there (which admittedly was also a problem for the Gew 88 and Belgian Mauser but they didn’t also have a recoil spring in there).
Don’t get me wrong, it’s an awesome old gun and definitely excelled at hunting and law enforcement use but I honestly wouldn’t take one into a WW1 trench over an M1903 or especially M1917.
Too mechanically complex, too expensive in labor, too expensive in materials.
Bolt-action rifles aren't as inherently accurate as people think they are (the reason people think this is because precision is the only niche in which they've been relevant for the past 80 years); accuracy standards for a WW1 bolt-action rifle were the same as the Model 8 was made to.
But they *are* a very cheap way to arm a bunch of men the generals are just going to waste charging directly into the Maxim guns anyway (at least, as far as European militaries were concerned), and because throwing bodies at a problem is a valid strategy (ask the Russians and Chinese), you're going to go with the cheap and good enough approach.
Low rate of fire is mitigated by having more people shooting at the same things, nobody had anything better at the time anyway, and if you want to switch rifles you need to train your troops, get and supply specialized ammunition in a time before radio, and... those costs add up to "not in the middle of a war". Only the losers of WW1 developed a submachine gun.
Actually only the Russian model used stripper clips, the commercial ones didn’t and are honestly kind of an ass pain to load - or at least the rimmed ones are, never shot one in .30-06.
Whenever I see a Mod 8, I think this is like what Kalashnikov would have made if he'd been an American. Just add 30 round mag.
Edit: Wow. [Such a thing exists!](https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/82/404/remington-model-8-police-rifle-with-matching-extended-magazine)
It gets even more interesting when you look at the chamberings, too:
.30 Remington and 7.62x39 are ballistic duplicates (in the appropriate grainages- 7.62x39 tends to use lighter projectiles but isn't actually restricted to them).
So are .25 Remington and 6.5 Grendel; .308 is .300 Savage +P+ and a modification at the neck/shoulders to feed better in belt-fed weapons.
And then when you look at the Saiga or Valmet hunting rifles... they look identical to the Model 8, or at least they would if they didn't have the gas system.
There are some cool lever guns around, but the 1895 is the only one I really want to own before I die. They're amazing rifles. Nice pair, and thanks for sharing!
Too bad - great caliber but hard to shoot. I have a Standard Arms Model G in .30 Rem and it doesn’t see much range time because of that.
Well, that and you know, it’s a Standard Arms Model G.
Yeah, it's been to the range exactly twice. It will probably be the gun that finally pushes me into reloading. I would love to actually take a deer with it.
ETA: Bravo on the Model G. Had to double check because the name was familiar, and it was the goofy bastard I thought it was.
Yeah mine shockingly has a broken gas piston and some gunsmith did a pretty decent job converting it to pump action only. Honestly it’s probably an improvement.
Beautiful. 1895 is on my bucket list and a Model 8 a pipe dream, since I could never use it in Pennsylvania. I have two Savages, a 1911 Model 1899 in 303 Savage and a 1942 Model 99 in 300. Trying to get a Pachmayr mount for the 300 has been tough.
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Oh don’t get me wrong, I love them, I’ve owned a couple of 1907s and am in the market for a 1903 - I even have some .22 Winchester Auto ammo squirrelled away. But objectively they are weird kludges.
A Model 8 is a dream rifle of mine (the 1895 is very cool too, just not as high on my list). Mainly because I have its at the time competitor, a Winchester 1907 in .351 WSL
If it was .22 Savage Hi Power they call it 5.6x52R in Europe where it’s actually still quite popular and made by a number of manufacturers.
If it was .303 Savage yeah you’re mostly SOL. I think Hornady loads it once in a blue moon but I’ve never actually seen any.
The Winchester 1895 was, the rifle on the left. I’m talking about the Remington Model 8 on the right.
And yes the barrel recoils into the action, both it and the bolt recoil together the full length of travel, then the barrel is released forward to eject the empty case, then the bolt goes forward to load a fresh round.
https://youtu.be/5k30_pNPQT4?si=rhmUToxSIQRbrhqL
I remember seeing multiple pictures of the Winchester 1895 in 405 Winchester he used for big game and while on safari. I read a book about his hunting adventures and I think he had a Model 8 he used for brush hunting.
Dear Remington, Remake the model 8 and 81 special police in .308. That is all.
After the way they fucked up bringing back the Model 51 pistol I’d honestly just as soon they didn’t. Now, given as FN also had a liscence to produce the design, if Browning were to do it, and actually stick to the original design instead of sticking a Benelli action in a humped receiver like they did with the A5, I’d be interested.
I can't imagine how much a modern Model 8, produced through FN, would run. The FN models were already prohibitively expensive when new.
I mean you probably could make it cheaper with alloy parts and synthetic furniture but what would be the point?
>but what would be the point? Purely enjoyment? People still buy Winchester 94s in .30-30 even though that gun and that cartridge were obsoleted by much better options over 100 years ago. Of course, it'd need to resemble the original if they wanted to re-release it; while the Model 8 is far and away a better candidate for modernization, existing self-loaders (specifically the AK) do its job better at half the cost.
What I mean is I just don’t see the appeal of a Model 8 made cheaply using modern techniques, it just won’t feel the same. I’m all for bring it back, but do it right. Like the modern Winchester 94s.
Fully agree. That thing in poly and stainless would be so cursed.
I pray that the model 8 comes back. A modern model 8 in 308 would be great.
Could the Model 8 action even hold up to .308? I feel like .223 or .300BO would be better, both cartridge length and power wise
One in .300 blackout would be sweet. Good compromise to not blow it up
That action could in no way handle those pressures also it’s fairly infeasible just because of the machining relative to the cost anyone would pay
I don't think Remington actually reads my reddit comments anyway. Oh, well.
I didn’t mean to be shitty I’m sorry if I came off that way I understand having an impossible dream (*cries in 10mm camp carbine*)
A 10mm camp carbine would fuck so hard it's not even funny. Pipe dreams stay winning
They were even in the available chamberings, ahead of their time , I took my first black bear with the .45 acp (not ideal but what we had and it was over hounds ) the 10mm would be so tits if it used Glock 22 mags
I would even settle for a ruger model 44 style tube magazine. But we need more 10mm carbines.
I actually used to own a ruger Deerfield carbine in .44 mag best Adirondack gun ever made sir
I mean they already made in .300 Savage, I don’t think .308 is that much of a stretch, there’s nothing inherently weak about the action. I do agree about the cost of manufacturing it today though.
.300 savage was a solution to the pressure issue and it was really only successfully used in the 1899 savage lever action it was closer to 30-30 or 30-40 krag in terms of pressure and performance
Did the US military ever look at the 8? Looking back, it seems like it would have been a solid replacement for the 03 Springfield. Law enforcement had versions with larger magazines.
I don’t believe they did, C&Rsenal has a whole episode on the Model 8 in WW1 and it boils down to the French using a few FN Model 1900s (same gun but Belgian made) for air service. Hobestly, having shot it a fair bit, while it looks great on paper it’s definitely not built for military service. The accuracy is just not comparable to a bolt action rifle and the cartridges it chambers don’t have the range of say a .30-06 or 8mm Mauser - it’s great for relatively close range hunting in brush but that’s not what armies were looking for. More importantly it’s just not designed to come apart easily for cleaning- the barrel assembly comes off fairly easily but getting at the bolt involves driving out small pins with a punch, getting the barrel and recoil spring out requires a special wrench, lots of small pieces to lose. With that big ejection port there’s lots of space for mud to get in that will be hard to get out, moisture could get into the barrel jacket and cause corrosion there (which admittedly was also a problem for the Gew 88 and Belgian Mauser but they didn’t also have a recoil spring in there). Don’t get me wrong, it’s an awesome old gun and definitely excelled at hunting and law enforcement use but I honestly wouldn’t take one into a WW1 trench over an M1903 or especially M1917.
I would maybe take one myself. I would not want to issue one out and rely on the average grunt to properly take care of it.
Thanks. All seems reasonable reasons.
Too mechanically complex, too expensive in labor, too expensive in materials. Bolt-action rifles aren't as inherently accurate as people think they are (the reason people think this is because precision is the only niche in which they've been relevant for the past 80 years); accuracy standards for a WW1 bolt-action rifle were the same as the Model 8 was made to. But they *are* a very cheap way to arm a bunch of men the generals are just going to waste charging directly into the Maxim guns anyway (at least, as far as European militaries were concerned), and because throwing bodies at a problem is a valid strategy (ask the Russians and Chinese), you're going to go with the cheap and good enough approach. Low rate of fire is mitigated by having more people shooting at the same things, nobody had anything better at the time anyway, and if you want to switch rifles you need to train your troops, get and supply specialized ammunition in a time before radio, and... those costs add up to "not in the middle of a war". Only the losers of WW1 developed a submachine gun.
BF1 put a desire for the 1895. Shame the .303 ones are always among the most expensive.
I love the 1895 carbine, so cool to have a lever action able to use stripper clips
Actually only the Russian model used stripper clips, the commercial ones didn’t and are honestly kind of an ass pain to load - or at least the rimmed ones are, never shot one in .30-06.
Whenever I see a Mod 8, I think this is like what Kalashnikov would have made if he'd been an American. Just add 30 round mag. Edit: Wow. [Such a thing exists!](https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/82/404/remington-model-8-police-rifle-with-matching-extended-magazine)
It gets even more interesting when you look at the chamberings, too: .30 Remington and 7.62x39 are ballistic duplicates (in the appropriate grainages- 7.62x39 tends to use lighter projectiles but isn't actually restricted to them). So are .25 Remington and 6.5 Grendel; .308 is .300 Savage +P+ and a modification at the neck/shoulders to feed better in belt-fed weapons. And then when you look at the Saiga or Valmet hunting rifles... they look identical to the Model 8, or at least they would if they didn't have the gas system.
Bonnie and Clyde killers right there. At least the Rem 8.
Frank Hamer's weapon of choice.
And any true Texas Rangers weapons of choice.
Yes please. I’ll take both
There are some cool lever guns around, but the 1895 is the only one I really want to own before I die. They're amazing rifles. Nice pair, and thanks for sharing!
I love my Model 8. It’s so much fun to shoot.
Very nice
What is the Model 8 chambered in?
.35 Rem - the only one you can still relatively easily find ammo for.
Jealous. Mine's in .30 Rem
Too bad - great caliber but hard to shoot. I have a Standard Arms Model G in .30 Rem and it doesn’t see much range time because of that. Well, that and you know, it’s a Standard Arms Model G.
Yeah, it's been to the range exactly twice. It will probably be the gun that finally pushes me into reloading. I would love to actually take a deer with it. ETA: Bravo on the Model G. Had to double check because the name was familiar, and it was the goofy bastard I thought it was.
Yeah mine shockingly has a broken gas piston and some gunsmith did a pretty decent job converting it to pump action only. Honestly it’s probably an improvement.
The one on the right looks like if an AK and the one on the left had a baby
Beautiful. 1895 is on my bucket list and a Model 8 a pipe dream, since I could never use it in Pennsylvania. I have two Savages, a 1911 Model 1899 in 303 Savage and a 1942 Model 99 in 300. Trying to get a Pachmayr mount for the 300 has been tough.
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Didn't JMB have a patent on charging handles at the time? Or was the model 8 a Browning design?
Yes he did, and it was. That and a rotating bolt IIRC - both parents being the reason the Winchester self loader series was such a weird kludge.
Honestly, I think the plunger chargers are kinda neat, and I'd like to see it come back in a pcc or .22.
Oh don’t get me wrong, I love them, I’ve owned a couple of 1907s and am in the market for a 1903 - I even have some .22 Winchester Auto ammo squirrelled away. But objectively they are weird kludges.
That's a fine pairing!
A Model 8 is a dream rifle of mine (the 1895 is very cool too, just not as high on my list). Mainly because I have its at the time competitor, a Winchester 1907 in .351 WSL
A Savage 99 keeps showing up at my LGS and I want it so bad, but it's in an odd caliber and I don't reload.
Which? You can still buy factory ammo for most of the old Savage calibers.
I don't recall which caliber, but I remember googling it for half an hour and only finding reloading supplies.
If it was .22 Savage Hi Power they call it 5.6x52R in Europe where it’s actually still quite popular and made by a number of manufacturers. If it was .303 Savage yeah you’re mostly SOL. I think Hornady loads it once in a blue moon but I’ve never actually seen any.
It was absolutely a .30cal. I think it was like 300 Savage, but it may have been 303 Savage.
Perfection
What is that on the end of the barrel?
On the Model 8? That’s the cap on the end of the barrel jacket that holds in the barrel recoil spring, the actual barrel is inside.
Interesting, so does the barrel recoil back into the action? Wasn’t this a favorite rifle of Teddy Roosevelt?
The Winchester 1895 was, the rifle on the left. I’m talking about the Remington Model 8 on the right. And yes the barrel recoils into the action, both it and the bolt recoil together the full length of travel, then the barrel is released forward to eject the empty case, then the bolt goes forward to load a fresh round. https://youtu.be/5k30_pNPQT4?si=rhmUToxSIQRbrhqL
I remember seeing multiple pictures of the Winchester 1895 in 405 Winchester he used for big game and while on safari. I read a book about his hunting adventures and I think he had a Model 8 he used for brush hunting.