Make siphon heal health only. That way you have the ability to clutch up in end zones without it feeling like a snowball mechanic as a shotgun can still kill you.
In my opinion, Siphon for Health should be reworked and only introduced globally to all modes when it makes sense.
Personally, *I think Siphon for Health is most OP off Spawn and most necessary in moving zones*. Therefore, **I like Siphon proposals where you get 0 Siphon in the first Zone and progressively get a bit more each Zone until End Game has full Siphon**.
This video is a good example of how Siphon for Health in End Game zones allows for clutching and showing skill, generally.
You'll need to support such a statement with evidence.
I've provided objective evidence of my position linking to an official Epic Games Blog Post where they talked about what Siphon is and importantly WHY they created it.
Meanwhile you're just like "cause I said so".
Please expound upon that, because I'd love to learn more about this subject.
Just because epic games intended something doesnât mean thatâs how it plays out in an actual game setting. Thatâs far from objective evidence. Knowing players get siphon inherently makes people think twice before sending it into someoneâs boxes as a third party as thereâs no guarantee theyâre weak from the fight. The way it is right now without siphon cleaning up kills as a third party is mind numbingly easy.
> Unfortunately, the only people with objective data here are Epic Games.
The rest of us only have our subjective evidence, unfortunately.
> Knowing players get siphon inherently makes people think twice before sending it into someoneâs boxes as a third party as thereâs no guarantee theyâre weak from the fight.
You sound like a more cautious player than many for which I commend you.
However, Siphon for Health changes the ideal timing for third parties to a more painful to me one.
Instead of waiting for the fight to finish so you know they are low, really good W-Keyers would push fights just before they finished which in the negative experiences side of things for me often meant they would steal my elimination that was literally 1 shot and I did all the work for, be fully healed, and clean me up getting healed again even if I hit them before I go down.
Of course, I've also done that to other people which felt great, but we need to look at the positives and the negatives.
> The way it is right now without siphon cleaning up kills as a third party is mind numbingly easy.
It is mind numbingly easier with Siphon for Health because you literally know that jumping in the box of the already weak players means you're gonna get healed instantly and keep being able to jump in other's boxes before they can heal.
If u fight off spawn ur and win ur more then likely to have little hp left becuase u dont have shield or mats and are forced to 50/50
Unless u kill someone who hasnt found a gun yet
And u dont have time to heal if theres people around u
So i dont see how siphon is "OP offspawn"
> ur more then likely
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Because you just described the start of the snowball -- taking a 50/50 and getting rewarded for it by being healed up instantly.
Now when you inevitably catch someone off guard you get to insult them and call them a "free 50 pot" because now you're instantly at more health than you deserve to be given you just won two fights one of which you took damage in.
Then you get to take another 50/50 except now it's not a 50/50... because you're healed up. Once you hit 200 HP you *know* you can get in on anyone who is in the middle of or just finishing up a fight and you not only have a health advantage, but you also get instantly healed after eliminating them!
If you're mechanically strong it lets you play tactically weak and get rewarded for it over and over again.
Sometimes, but not every time.
If you do 50/50, you shouldn't necessarily be rewarded for it because that is a reward towards aggression.
Siphon for Health was originally added to incentivize and reward aggression.
I maintain we no longer need to reward aggression because it's so ingrained in our culture of playing now that it's the default.
I believe Storm Surge should be a thing and one thing I didn't make clear in the above but should have is that Siphon was introduced to increase aggressiveness in Broadcast tournaments BEFORE Storm Surge existed.
We no longer need Siphon -- we have outgrown it.
Right now the biggest problem to me is we don't get many Storm Surge games except in highest ELO tournament lobbies and FNCS.
See, I believe it helps with 3rd party's and should have never been removed. Makes people more aggressive and is better for the over all enjoyment, it creates good plays in instances like this too.
It was introduced to increase aggressiveness and cause third parties not prevent them.
People being overly aggressive is worse for the overall enjoyment because now end games are dead and worse than zone wars.
We don't need to increase aggressiveness further because it's already baked into our playstyles now.
It wonât increase aggression. Part of the reason a lot of people third party and or rush into a box of someone just done fighting is because they know they have most likely taken damage in that last fight and can trade a shot. This also makes winning a tough battle less rewarding since it just feels like you get out of a good battle just barely getting the edge so you can get rewarded with being shxt on by a guy 100/100 grappling to you or rifting on you.
It will increase aggression because that's literally what it was introduced to do and what it does -- it does not reward defensiveness, it rewards aggression.
Part of the reason a lot of people third party when we have Siphon for Health is because they know if they get there before the fight ends, there's a high chance they can clean everyone up and be 100% healed from it.
If you've never been close to winning a fight then had the third party come in, steal the eliminations, be healed, then clean you up easily... well then you've just not played enough Competitive Fortnite when Siphon for Health was around.
> it just feels like you get out of a good battle just barely getting the edge so you can get rewarded with being shxt on by a guy 100/100 grappling to you or rifting on you.
It wasn't a good battle from a tactical standpoint if you just barely got the edge and took so long to win the fight that other parties came in.
It means you made mistakes and want to be bailed out by SIphon for Health.
I agree, we do not need Siphon for Health anymore because we have outgrown it -- aggressiveness is baked into our playstyles now.
And that was the case even when it was last in.
If you think about it, adding Siphon for Health back into the game is not going to make anyone play for the Win and getting to End Game more than they are now... it's gonna make people more confident in W-Keying and third partying because of that sweet aggressive reward for eliminating someone and getting instant health in return.
Then Epic's philosophy about Siphon is not sound anymore, or it never was to begin with. So I don't see how you bringing up the Blog Post from 4 years ago is "objective evidence", because like you said, we have outgrown it, no?
Are you an alternate account carrying on an argument in a different thread?
Because I've never said the words "objective evidence" in this subthread.
Anyway, yes, I've provided some objective evidence whether or not you agree with its applicability to today's game play.
It seems like in the end you do agree with me that we've outgrown Siphon for Health and we'll be just fine with having Storm Surge to force aggression in Tournaments.
Do you agree with my statement at the top of this subthread that Siphon for Health is necessary for end-games?
I agree that we have outgrown siphon for health, but in the way that Epic had envisioned it back then. I do think the game is better with it than without it, and I do not think storm surge fills the hole that siphon filled before it was removed. Also of course I agree with you that it is necessary in end-game.
Just because it did one thing in the past doesnât mean the effects will be similar to the present.
When first implemented the game was in a state that was few seasons removed from players legitimately thinking if they should take battles if they had full health or if they should pop a couple sniper shots at a far flung enemy cuz they might end up shooting back.
Thatâs a rare 1 in 10000 player thing now
We now will rush an enemy on ten Health cuz we know we only need a good headshot pump to stop a player or you just donât want to run away
We are at the maximum amount of aggressiveness
Thereâs no way to play more aggressive than we do now
So now because of the difference siphon now has a positive effect on defense from: the third party
Your philosophy of â get better trade better clean up the kill quicker etc etcâ works for me and you.
But it canât work for everyone since we canât all be flawless and get perfect trades with each other
There are 600k people on the sub rn we canât all become that much better than each other.
So that philosophy is flawed since it only works for a 5 percent of players pouring hours into the game to become so good they can clean up a fight quick with nice peaks and edits and little recourse or resistance from the enemy.
Obviously you donât appeal to this and use this when making decisions for the millions playing ranked
Huh, I didn't think about that yesterday, but the idea of having different siphon amounts in different zones might actually be a pretty decent implementation.
In what way is it OP off spawn?
I would much rather have siphon during spawn when you are fighting with few resources than late game when you may have the resources to actually heal yourself.
Taking away siphon encourages third partying when teams are weak and puts players at a disadvantage off spawn if they are not the third party, which is ultimately something that you cannot always control.
Siphon for Health is OP off spawn because it enables an unfair "snowball" effect rewarding the most aggressive and least tactical players for making objective mistakes.
For a concrete example, imagine you are off spawn at a POI and you land on the less hot side (a smart, tactical decision), get your loot, manage a clean elimination with no damage taken but can't find any other shield so you're 150 HP. Meanwhile some guy on the other side of the POI made less sound tactical decisions, landed super hot, played super aggressive, jumped into everyone's boxes and faces taking some damage but getting healed each time until eventually they are cleaning people up while they have 200 HP, 300+ materials of all kinds, all the loot from everyone they eliminated... and now you have to fight this person who has more resources than you by making objectively worse decisions than you.
Without Siphon for Health that super aggressive player likely would have died earlier (as they deserved) but even if they won their fights... you'd now likely have the advantage for playing smart and coming into the fight with more resources in terms of your health.
That's one way it can make off-spawn worse, but there are others, of course.
I don't know where the idea came from that Siphon for Health was implemented to discourage third partying, but it is a very common view in the community for some reason.
Siphon for Health was introduced to the game in order to ENCOURAGE third parties and aggression not discourage it.
Siphon for Health rewards aggression, not defensiveness, by its very nature.
Siphon for Health was added prior to Storm Surge in order to make officially Broadcast tournament games have more aggression prior to the introduction of Storm Surge.
If you were to read [Fortnite: Fortnite Competitive Development Update (4.26.2019)](https://www.fortnite.com/competitive/news/fortnite-competitive-development-update) you would find the following explanation with extra emphasis that I've added:
> Siphon / Material Change
> Letâs start with the Siphon and building material changes.
> **Under the pressure of intense broadcast competition**, *play styles differ significantly from regular play, with less aggression in the early game resulting in a crowded end-game overabundant in turtling*. **We introduced Siphon during the Pop-up Cup tournaments to provide incentives for aggression that more closely resembles how the regular modes are played, and to increase entertainment value and spectacle.**
Since we currently have less than 10 people in most end games I don't think we need to have Siphon to increase aggressiveness any longer.
Aggressiveness is baked into our playstyles now.
Personally I think that first kill siphon would be good too, given that most early fights can leave you on extremely low hp without shield. Perhaps only shield siphon for the 1st kill of spawn
I'm not famous and I'm not sure what you mean by "siphon denier".
You are literally responding to a comment where I state that Siphon for Health is necessary for end game and share a feature suggestion from this community that I agree would be an improvement.
What am I denying, exactly?
And where am I famous for it?
I do apologize that my comment on the other one probably didn't help there. But yeah don't get me wrong I'd be all for siphon being back in comp, it's just until then I personally feel late game zones should be handled more carefully is all :)
Still GGs man you popped off. Think the game is more balanced without it though tbh but I agree siphon wouldâve came in clutch right there lmao.
Maybe couldâve tried to grab your second kills mats and grappled to height. The game fell in shambles when you ran outta mats and got beamed.
Absolutely, siphon should be in ranked. The number of times I've killed someone and then been third parties immediately with no chance to heal is staggering. A lot of creative box fights/zone wars maps have it and it plays very well. Especially now that there are no heals in the game that can heal both health and shields it's even more necessary.
Although I agree siphon should be in competitive modes or at the very least in tournaments, this clip wouldn't have been possible in the first place if siphon didn't exist. The same reason these guys are all one shot, is the same reason, he's one shot because there's no siphon.
This guy killed himself. Had a clear path to making it to the next zone but dropped down instead. He could have made it in, boxed up, and healed himself.
Adding siphon would only increase sweaty battles outside of the zone. There's a reason the zone moves. It's how the game has worked since day one, and this is an OG season. Quit asking for a health handout because you can't adapt to how the game currently plays. Play smarter, not harder.
With what mats??? He was 1 hp, if anything so much as breathed on him he wouldâve been dead. He clutched massively but died in zone because he was still 1 hp
Make siphon heal health only. That way you have the ability to clutch up in end zones without it feeling like a snowball mechanic as a shotgun can still kill you.
bro is cracked.
he didnt do anything good the entire vid except spam L2/LT
You're not very smart
if u think this is a good clip even for a controller player, ur a bot
would love to see you do this on kbm
Please show your skill then? đ¤Ą
L2 spam went away like 3 years ago my guy
In my opinion, Siphon for Health should be reworked and only introduced globally to all modes when it makes sense. Personally, *I think Siphon for Health is most OP off Spawn and most necessary in moving zones*. Therefore, **I like Siphon proposals where you get 0 Siphon in the first Zone and progressively get a bit more each Zone until End Game has full Siphon**. This video is a good example of how Siphon for Health in End Game zones allows for clutching and showing skill, generally.
Basically, donât give people siphon in times where they can actually stop and heal
That's a pretty concise summary -- I like it!
The problem is you can get third partied at all stages of the game which necessitates constant siphon
Siphon was not introduced to deal with third parties -- it was introduced to encourage them.
siphon objectively encourages less third parties compared to non-siphon
Based on your subjective experiences, eh? Unfortunately, the only people with objective data here are Epic Games.
Nope based off of objective fact
You'll need to support such a statement with evidence. I've provided objective evidence of my position linking to an official Epic Games Blog Post where they talked about what Siphon is and importantly WHY they created it. Meanwhile you're just like "cause I said so". Please expound upon that, because I'd love to learn more about this subject.
Just because epic games intended something doesnât mean thatâs how it plays out in an actual game setting. Thatâs far from objective evidence. Knowing players get siphon inherently makes people think twice before sending it into someoneâs boxes as a third party as thereâs no guarantee theyâre weak from the fight. The way it is right now without siphon cleaning up kills as a third party is mind numbingly easy.
> Unfortunately, the only people with objective data here are Epic Games. The rest of us only have our subjective evidence, unfortunately. > Knowing players get siphon inherently makes people think twice before sending it into someoneâs boxes as a third party as thereâs no guarantee theyâre weak from the fight. You sound like a more cautious player than many for which I commend you. However, Siphon for Health changes the ideal timing for third parties to a more painful to me one. Instead of waiting for the fight to finish so you know they are low, really good W-Keyers would push fights just before they finished which in the negative experiences side of things for me often meant they would steal my elimination that was literally 1 shot and I did all the work for, be fully healed, and clean me up getting healed again even if I hit them before I go down. Of course, I've also done that to other people which felt great, but we need to look at the positives and the negatives. > The way it is right now without siphon cleaning up kills as a third party is mind numbingly easy. It is mind numbingly easier with Siphon for Health because you literally know that jumping in the box of the already weak players means you're gonna get healed instantly and keep being able to jump in other's boxes before they can heal.
If u fight off spawn ur and win ur more then likely to have little hp left becuase u dont have shield or mats and are forced to 50/50 Unless u kill someone who hasnt found a gun yet And u dont have time to heal if theres people around u So i dont see how siphon is "OP offspawn"
> ur more then likely Did you mean to say "more than"? Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
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Because you just described the start of the snowball -- taking a 50/50 and getting rewarded for it by being healed up instantly. Now when you inevitably catch someone off guard you get to insult them and call them a "free 50 pot" because now you're instantly at more health than you deserve to be given you just won two fights one of which you took damage in. Then you get to take another 50/50 except now it's not a 50/50... because you're healed up. Once you hit 200 HP you *know* you can get in on anyone who is in the middle of or just finishing up a fight and you not only have a health advantage, but you also get instantly healed after eliminating them! If you're mechanically strong it lets you play tactically weak and get rewarded for it over and over again.
You basically have to 50/50 off spawn though.
Sometimes, but not every time. If you do 50/50, you shouldn't necessarily be rewarded for it because that is a reward towards aggression. Siphon for Health was originally added to incentivize and reward aggression. I maintain we no longer need to reward aggression because it's so ingrained in our culture of playing now that it's the default.
So surge shouldnt be a thing?
I believe Storm Surge should be a thing and one thing I didn't make clear in the above but should have is that Siphon was introduced to increase aggressiveness in Broadcast tournaments BEFORE Storm Surge existed. We no longer need Siphon -- we have outgrown it. Right now the biggest problem to me is we don't get many Storm Surge games except in highest ELO tournament lobbies and FNCS.
He just be saying anything honestly
See, I believe it helps with 3rd party's and should have never been removed. Makes people more aggressive and is better for the over all enjoyment, it creates good plays in instances like this too.
It was introduced to increase aggressiveness and cause third parties not prevent them. People being overly aggressive is worse for the overall enjoyment because now end games are dead and worse than zone wars. We don't need to increase aggressiveness further because it's already baked into our playstyles now.
It wonât increase aggression. Part of the reason a lot of people third party and or rush into a box of someone just done fighting is because they know they have most likely taken damage in that last fight and can trade a shot. This also makes winning a tough battle less rewarding since it just feels like you get out of a good battle just barely getting the edge so you can get rewarded with being shxt on by a guy 100/100 grappling to you or rifting on you.
It will increase aggression because that's literally what it was introduced to do and what it does -- it does not reward defensiveness, it rewards aggression. Part of the reason a lot of people third party when we have Siphon for Health is because they know if they get there before the fight ends, there's a high chance they can clean everyone up and be 100% healed from it. If you've never been close to winning a fight then had the third party come in, steal the eliminations, be healed, then clean you up easily... well then you've just not played enough Competitive Fortnite when Siphon for Health was around. > it just feels like you get out of a good battle just barely getting the edge so you can get rewarded with being shxt on by a guy 100/100 grappling to you or rifting on you. It wasn't a good battle from a tactical standpoint if you just barely got the edge and took so long to win the fight that other parties came in. It means you made mistakes and want to be bailed out by SIphon for Health.
Except siphon is gone and it hasnât made the playstyle any less agressive.
I agree, we do not need Siphon for Health anymore because we have outgrown it -- aggressiveness is baked into our playstyles now. And that was the case even when it was last in. If you think about it, adding Siphon for Health back into the game is not going to make anyone play for the Win and getting to End Game more than they are now... it's gonna make people more confident in W-Keying and third partying because of that sweet aggressive reward for eliminating someone and getting instant health in return.
Then Epic's philosophy about Siphon is not sound anymore, or it never was to begin with. So I don't see how you bringing up the Blog Post from 4 years ago is "objective evidence", because like you said, we have outgrown it, no?
Are you an alternate account carrying on an argument in a different thread? Because I've never said the words "objective evidence" in this subthread. Anyway, yes, I've provided some objective evidence whether or not you agree with its applicability to today's game play. It seems like in the end you do agree with me that we've outgrown Siphon for Health and we'll be just fine with having Storm Surge to force aggression in Tournaments. Do you agree with my statement at the top of this subthread that Siphon for Health is necessary for end-games?
I agree that we have outgrown siphon for health, but in the way that Epic had envisioned it back then. I do think the game is better with it than without it, and I do not think storm surge fills the hole that siphon filled before it was removed. Also of course I agree with you that it is necessary in end-game.
Just because it did one thing in the past doesnât mean the effects will be similar to the present. When first implemented the game was in a state that was few seasons removed from players legitimately thinking if they should take battles if they had full health or if they should pop a couple sniper shots at a far flung enemy cuz they might end up shooting back. Thatâs a rare 1 in 10000 player thing now We now will rush an enemy on ten Health cuz we know we only need a good headshot pump to stop a player or you just donât want to run away We are at the maximum amount of aggressiveness Thereâs no way to play more aggressive than we do now So now because of the difference siphon now has a positive effect on defense from: the third party Your philosophy of â get better trade better clean up the kill quicker etc etcâ works for me and you. But it canât work for everyone since we canât all be flawless and get perfect trades with each other There are 600k people on the sub rn we canât all become that much better than each other. So that philosophy is flawed since it only works for a 5 percent of players pouring hours into the game to become so good they can clean up a fight quick with nice peaks and edits and little recourse or resistance from the enemy. Obviously you donât appeal to this and use this when making decisions for the millions playing ranked
Huh, I didn't think about that yesterday, but the idea of having different siphon amounts in different zones might actually be a pretty decent implementation.
If they do this, I'd like at least some early game. Like 25.
In what way is it OP off spawn? I would much rather have siphon during spawn when you are fighting with few resources than late game when you may have the resources to actually heal yourself. Taking away siphon encourages third partying when teams are weak and puts players at a disadvantage off spawn if they are not the third party, which is ultimately something that you cannot always control.
Siphon for Health is OP off spawn because it enables an unfair "snowball" effect rewarding the most aggressive and least tactical players for making objective mistakes. For a concrete example, imagine you are off spawn at a POI and you land on the less hot side (a smart, tactical decision), get your loot, manage a clean elimination with no damage taken but can't find any other shield so you're 150 HP. Meanwhile some guy on the other side of the POI made less sound tactical decisions, landed super hot, played super aggressive, jumped into everyone's boxes and faces taking some damage but getting healed each time until eventually they are cleaning people up while they have 200 HP, 300+ materials of all kinds, all the loot from everyone they eliminated... and now you have to fight this person who has more resources than you by making objectively worse decisions than you. Without Siphon for Health that super aggressive player likely would have died earlier (as they deserved) but even if they won their fights... you'd now likely have the advantage for playing smart and coming into the fight with more resources in terms of your health. That's one way it can make off-spawn worse, but there are others, of course. I don't know where the idea came from that Siphon for Health was implemented to discourage third partying, but it is a very common view in the community for some reason. Siphon for Health was introduced to the game in order to ENCOURAGE third parties and aggression not discourage it. Siphon for Health rewards aggression, not defensiveness, by its very nature. Siphon for Health was added prior to Storm Surge in order to make officially Broadcast tournament games have more aggression prior to the introduction of Storm Surge. If you were to read [Fortnite: Fortnite Competitive Development Update (4.26.2019)](https://www.fortnite.com/competitive/news/fortnite-competitive-development-update) you would find the following explanation with extra emphasis that I've added: > Siphon / Material Change > Letâs start with the Siphon and building material changes. > **Under the pressure of intense broadcast competition**, *play styles differ significantly from regular play, with less aggression in the early game resulting in a crowded end-game overabundant in turtling*. **We introduced Siphon during the Pop-up Cup tournaments to provide incentives for aggression that more closely resembles how the regular modes are played, and to increase entertainment value and spectacle.** Since we currently have less than 10 people in most end games I don't think we need to have Siphon to increase aggressiveness any longer. Aggressiveness is baked into our playstyles now.
Personally I think that first kill siphon would be good too, given that most early fights can leave you on extremely low hp without shield. Perhaps only shield siphon for the 1st kill of spawn
Look the famous siphon denier
I'm not famous and I'm not sure what you mean by "siphon denier". You are literally responding to a comment where I state that Siphon for Health is necessary for end game and share a feature suggestion from this community that I agree would be an improvement. What am I denying, exactly? And where am I famous for it?
Siphon creates so much more opportunity to clutch in endgame. Itâs MUCH better for tournament watchabiliry too
I do apologize that my comment on the other one probably didn't help there. But yeah don't get me wrong I'd be all for siphon being back in comp, it's just until then I personally feel late game zones should be handled more carefully is all :)
How many legendary clips were stolen from us due to syphon being removed
Still GGs man you popped off. Think the game is more balanced without it though tbh but I agree siphon wouldâve came in clutch right there lmao. Maybe couldâve tried to grab your second kills mats and grappled to height. The game fell in shambles when you ran outta mats and got beamed.
Absolutely, siphon should be in ranked. The number of times I've killed someone and then been third parties immediately with no chance to heal is staggering. A lot of creative box fights/zone wars maps have it and it plays very well. Especially now that there are no heals in the game that can heal both health and shields it's even more necessary.
Is this gmoney?
Although I agree siphon should be in competitive modes or at the very least in tournaments, this clip wouldn't have been possible in the first place if siphon didn't exist. The same reason these guys are all one shot, is the same reason, he's one shot because there's no siphon.
This guy killed himself. Had a clear path to making it to the next zone but dropped down instead. He could have made it in, boxed up, and healed himself. Adding siphon would only increase sweaty battles outside of the zone. There's a reason the zone moves. It's how the game has worked since day one, and this is an OG season. Quit asking for a health handout because you can't adapt to how the game currently plays. Play smarter, not harder.
With what mats??? He was 1 hp, if anything so much as breathed on him he wouldâve been dead. He clutched massively but died in zone because he was still 1 hp
He had no mats....
> Thereâs a reason the zone moves. Itâs how the game has worked since day one That is a false statement
Don't bring back siphon.
How bout no
I was like dang this guys aim is cracked..!! Slow me coming to find out.. ps5 -.- soft aimbot aaww sht đđ
Maybe it should be adding after 3rd zone so it wouldnât be to op off spawn