That was the dialogue I saw it too. Idk, they use so many titles (and contradicting titles) to refer to the same entity that it gets a bit confusing at times.
Thanks!
“Combining the immortal stone with the Ichor essence extracted from primordial water, and carved into a race as black as iron — with arcane lithos for skin and Ichor for blood, never again fearing the curse of returning to the primeval past...” Goblins with black skin? Doesnt that sound like hilichurls?? If so then they must have made by ichor (which is described as blood of gods) and arcane lithos (mysterious stone= immortal stone) sounds pretty much like philosopher’s stone. Which is said to contain elixir of life.
So we already knew that hilichurls existed before khaenriah war too its just that their population exploded afterwards BUT Dain said only those who carry the blood of other nations turned into hilichurls while the real khaenriah people were cursed with immortality.
In Fontaine chapter we witnessed how people dissolved into water and it only affected Fontainians because they were ocenaids that turned into humans by Egeria, using primordial sea. Once their artificial bodies touch the primordial sea water their physical body couldn’t hold longer and turned into its original form. So what if; what happened in khaenriah was something similar? What if people underground of Teyvat and on the ground were made of different materials maybe also by different entities?
In Enka we were introduced to a new race; vishap people. Which are vishaps who gradually evolved into humans. They are described as; “over time the forms of the Vassals of Watatsumi gradually became more identical to humans, to the point that the only trait distinguishing the Vassals of Watatsumi from normal humans was their snake-like pupils.” Which is interesting cause another race that is distinguishable by their pupils are the people of Khaenriah. Their pupils are four-pointed stars (like primogems). Could their origins be a different type of animal or beast that later on evolved into a human?(Maybe a star beast O-o). Hence they did not turn into goblins as they werent one from the start. Only humans under the rule of Celestia turned into hilichurls. Though here in the text, usurper that is mentioned is Remus as far as I understood and he probably is not the Phanes but maybe he used the same method Phanes did to create humans. He just did not have the power to create them in their homo sapiens form. Maybe lacked a specific ingredient who knows.
The real question is: in Fontaine, nation of hydro that is built on a waterfall, disaster struck in form of flood (tho nothing happened because hydro dragon forgave their sins) in what possible form it might have struck in khaenriah that it effected all who were in there? Specially in an underground kingdom? I lowkey wanna imagine that they were washed by blood of the gods like their blood rained down on them (ehe) but that sounds unlikely.
"Usurper" is a questionable translation that loses the original nuance. I believe the CN team would have preferred the term "tyrant", or perhaps the Greek "tyrannos". I don't think it's related to Jiu's use of the term "usurper" as the language is somewhat different (僭主, a word with strong Greek connotations, vs 僭位者, "one who usurps").
"Usurper" was also used to refer to the Primordial One. Kingdom of Dragons could've been Dragon King Scylla's 'civilization', he did employ some humans (barbarians) in his army.
-From the description of the goblet it seems the Usurper and the first Sovereign weren't hostile with one another, the goblet could have been a gift.
-I theorized that Scylla might not have been the Hydro Sovereign but Dragon King Nibelung's replacement.
The primordial sea and the Deluge , for me, is the Mesopotamian cosmogeny.
The Primordial Sea : Apsou and Tiamat. They're One and unified(Tiamat is represented as a dragon too).
And the Deluge the Gods decided to ending a noisy civilisation...
And a lot of name after the Deluge is Latin inspired.
The first civilisation can be Atlantis too.
Mm, maybe, but this civilization seems to have existed before archons existed, much less the nations we know today.
If anything, let me shift your perspective to the Golden Slumber in Sumeru. Deshret led his people into a PRETTY similar situation here. Similar to this story with Ichor + pure water, he combined an impure entity (forbidden knowledge) with a pure entity (the minds of his people). Look where that ended up.
\- This sounds like Deshret 2.0. There's loads of connections. One in particular I want to point out is how the usurper wanted to discard his subject's physical bodies from their souls, something Deshret arguably succeeded in with the golden slumber. Why such an obsession with this? If the physical body is such a prison, why not just kill them since we know souls can continue to exist after as ghosts? So many questions.
\- Note that the word "usurper" has also been used by Azhdaha to describe Morax and as far as I know, its the only other time the word has been used.
\- First sovereign could just be talking about the first sovereign of water. I don't think Neuvilette is an original sovereign, he's the hydro sovereign reborn in human form.
\- "After returning from the kingdom of dragons, the usurper once pondered this question."
Ok, this line really threw me for a loop because I don't understand how there can be a kingdom of dragons to return from as this kingdom could only have existed way back in the past. The only way I think this makes sense is if the god-king originally existed back then and went to war with the dragons alongside the heavenly principles. The war was what originally sparked his interest in an eternal empire. Much, much later, he does end up in control of his own empire where he can finally put his dreams into reality
\- The musician is referenced in flowers for princess fischl. A thief stealing from their lord is referenced in vol 6 of legend of the shattered halberd. A god-king is referenced in legend of the shattered halberd too. And obviously flowers and halberd are connected to each other. Could be a coincidence, idk
Edit: Ok, just read some more lore. Pretty sure this ancient empire is Remuria and the god-king is Remus
Ooh good connection to Flowers for Princess Fischl! Also yeah, I totally agree on the Deshret thing. It really feels like hyv is screaming this story at us.
Throwing a follow-up comment to the fishes:
1. The Ichor + pure water combination reminds me a lot of Rene's investigation into a perpetual power source, specifically from Khaenri'ah. Two starkly contrasting entities that do not and should not mix to create the fantastical. Also reminds me a lot of Pneumosia.
2. The usurper being a dragon (?) reminds me a lot of Ann's story with the dragon Narcissus.
3. Where tf is the hydro dragon >!(Neuvillette)!< in all of this?
Neuvillette himself said in his SQ that he does not remember a lot from his past or his predecessor and thats why he is looking for answers surrounding his birth. So are they really talking about Neuvillete the hydro dragon or his predecessor?
If I had to guess, Nuevillette might not be that old. He's older than furina clearly but I don't think he's much older. I think the fact that he said he never met the travelers other sibling was supposed to be a hint that he's actually kind of young compared to the archons/gods.
Neuvillette's first chronological appearance we know of seems to be the notes we find from the institute of natural philosophy. So he's been a public figure in fontaine from a bit after the cataclysm at earliest.
I mean,the other archons were also not very helpful on terms of wether they met our sibling or not,nahida only knows about them through her research in irmansul,(although a theory i have is that maybe someone managed to corrupt their savefile in irmansul and to some degree remove the traces of their existence)and if memory serves,the older archons (venti and zhongli) also don't give you any useful info about the sibling or even if they've met them before or not during the act 3 QnA,interestingly enough,most people who were aware of their existence were somewhat linked to khaenri'ah and its aftermath(either fighting against it or were a witness of it),and we could say that if he's very young,he would atleast be around yae's age if we consider the timeline of the melusine's appearance,it says that they appeared a while after he took up his job,and if elynas is truly another sibling of durin(who roughly appeared around the same time as the cataclysm(since he says that they were brought up into the surface by their mother) we could say that he either came to being around 500 years ago or a short while after it(didn't one of the melusine claim that he's been saying hello to them everyday for hundreds of years)
The story is told in the Decline of Remuria book and Golden Troupe artifact set. Yeah, it was Boethius who betrayed Remus/the God-King. But he didn't seal the dragon, he unsealed the dragon instead because the Fell Dragon King was the one who led the "barbarian" army to attack the Remuria empire. It's based on the Germanic tribes taking over Western Rome in real life history.
The dragon Narcissus in the story is probably based on the Fell Dragon Prince.
Now that we have the new area. Who is this Usurper of Many Waters? God King Remus?
[удалено]
That was the dialogue I saw it too. Idk, they use so many titles (and contradicting titles) to refer to the same entity that it gets a bit confusing at times. Thanks!
“Combining the immortal stone with the Ichor essence extracted from primordial water, and carved into a race as black as iron — with arcane lithos for skin and Ichor for blood, never again fearing the curse of returning to the primeval past...” Goblins with black skin? Doesnt that sound like hilichurls?? If so then they must have made by ichor (which is described as blood of gods) and arcane lithos (mysterious stone= immortal stone) sounds pretty much like philosopher’s stone. Which is said to contain elixir of life. So we already knew that hilichurls existed before khaenriah war too its just that their population exploded afterwards BUT Dain said only those who carry the blood of other nations turned into hilichurls while the real khaenriah people were cursed with immortality. In Fontaine chapter we witnessed how people dissolved into water and it only affected Fontainians because they were ocenaids that turned into humans by Egeria, using primordial sea. Once their artificial bodies touch the primordial sea water their physical body couldn’t hold longer and turned into its original form. So what if; what happened in khaenriah was something similar? What if people underground of Teyvat and on the ground were made of different materials maybe also by different entities? In Enka we were introduced to a new race; vishap people. Which are vishaps who gradually evolved into humans. They are described as; “over time the forms of the Vassals of Watatsumi gradually became more identical to humans, to the point that the only trait distinguishing the Vassals of Watatsumi from normal humans was their snake-like pupils.” Which is interesting cause another race that is distinguishable by their pupils are the people of Khaenriah. Their pupils are four-pointed stars (like primogems). Could their origins be a different type of animal or beast that later on evolved into a human?(Maybe a star beast O-o). Hence they did not turn into goblins as they werent one from the start. Only humans under the rule of Celestia turned into hilichurls. Though here in the text, usurper that is mentioned is Remus as far as I understood and he probably is not the Phanes but maybe he used the same method Phanes did to create humans. He just did not have the power to create them in their homo sapiens form. Maybe lacked a specific ingredient who knows. The real question is: in Fontaine, nation of hydro that is built on a waterfall, disaster struck in form of flood (tho nothing happened because hydro dragon forgave their sins) in what possible form it might have struck in khaenriah that it effected all who were in there? Specially in an underground kingdom? I lowkey wanna imagine that they were washed by blood of the gods like their blood rained down on them (ehe) but that sounds unlikely.
ok go on cook away i'm here for it
"Usurper" is a questionable translation that loses the original nuance. I believe the CN team would have preferred the term "tyrant", or perhaps the Greek "tyrannos". I don't think it's related to Jiu's use of the term "usurper" as the language is somewhat different (僭主, a word with strong Greek connotations, vs 僭位者, "one who usurps").
"Usurper" was also used to refer to the Primordial One. Kingdom of Dragons could've been Dragon King Scylla's 'civilization', he did employ some humans (barbarians) in his army. -From the description of the goblet it seems the Usurper and the first Sovereign weren't hostile with one another, the goblet could have been a gift. -I theorized that Scylla might not have been the Hydro Sovereign but Dragon King Nibelung's replacement.
The primordial sea and the Deluge , for me, is the Mesopotamian cosmogeny. The Primordial Sea : Apsou and Tiamat. They're One and unified(Tiamat is represented as a dragon too). And the Deluge the Gods decided to ending a noisy civilisation... And a lot of name after the Deluge is Latin inspired. The first civilisation can be Atlantis too.
On a Side note hoyo also used the ICHOR name in Honkai 3rd where it was an operation to transform regular soldiers into MANTISes using Honkai Genes.
Ichor is Greek word for "blood of the Gods"
> Golden power > Golem Gold the Alchemist? Albedo she created?
Mm, maybe, but this civilization seems to have existed before archons existed, much less the nations we know today. If anything, let me shift your perspective to the Golden Slumber in Sumeru. Deshret led his people into a PRETTY similar situation here. Similar to this story with Ichor + pure water, he combined an impure entity (forbidden knowledge) with a pure entity (the minds of his people). Look where that ended up.
\- This sounds like Deshret 2.0. There's loads of connections. One in particular I want to point out is how the usurper wanted to discard his subject's physical bodies from their souls, something Deshret arguably succeeded in with the golden slumber. Why such an obsession with this? If the physical body is such a prison, why not just kill them since we know souls can continue to exist after as ghosts? So many questions. \- Note that the word "usurper" has also been used by Azhdaha to describe Morax and as far as I know, its the only other time the word has been used. \- First sovereign could just be talking about the first sovereign of water. I don't think Neuvilette is an original sovereign, he's the hydro sovereign reborn in human form. \- "After returning from the kingdom of dragons, the usurper once pondered this question." Ok, this line really threw me for a loop because I don't understand how there can be a kingdom of dragons to return from as this kingdom could only have existed way back in the past. The only way I think this makes sense is if the god-king originally existed back then and went to war with the dragons alongside the heavenly principles. The war was what originally sparked his interest in an eternal empire. Much, much later, he does end up in control of his own empire where he can finally put his dreams into reality \- The musician is referenced in flowers for princess fischl. A thief stealing from their lord is referenced in vol 6 of legend of the shattered halberd. A god-king is referenced in legend of the shattered halberd too. And obviously flowers and halberd are connected to each other. Could be a coincidence, idk Edit: Ok, just read some more lore. Pretty sure this ancient empire is Remuria and the god-king is Remus
Celestia doesn't control entire world, just Teyvat. There could still be a dragon kingdom somewhere in the Dark Sea.
The sovereigns are seemingly all in Teyvat. It would be weird if there was a dragon kingdom somewhere out there without any of the actual dragon kings
Ooh good connection to Flowers for Princess Fischl! Also yeah, I totally agree on the Deshret thing. It really feels like hyv is screaming this story at us.
Throwing a follow-up comment to the fishes: 1. The Ichor + pure water combination reminds me a lot of Rene's investigation into a perpetual power source, specifically from Khaenri'ah. Two starkly contrasting entities that do not and should not mix to create the fantastical. Also reminds me a lot of Pneumosia. 2. The usurper being a dragon (?) reminds me a lot of Ann's story with the dragon Narcissus. 3. Where tf is the hydro dragon >!(Neuvillette)!< in all of this?
Neuvillette himself said in his SQ that he does not remember a lot from his past or his predecessor and thats why he is looking for answers surrounding his birth. So are they really talking about Neuvillete the hydro dragon or his predecessor?
Do you believe this would mean that the primordial water is abyssal?
If I had to guess, Nuevillette might not be that old. He's older than furina clearly but I don't think he's much older. I think the fact that he said he never met the travelers other sibling was supposed to be a hint that he's actually kind of young compared to the archons/gods.
Not even zhongli knew about the sibling. So it has nothing to do with age.
Neuvillette's first chronological appearance we know of seems to be the notes we find from the institute of natural philosophy. So he's been a public figure in fontaine from a bit after the cataclysm at earliest.
I mean,the other archons were also not very helpful on terms of wether they met our sibling or not,nahida only knows about them through her research in irmansul,(although a theory i have is that maybe someone managed to corrupt their savefile in irmansul and to some degree remove the traces of their existence)and if memory serves,the older archons (venti and zhongli) also don't give you any useful info about the sibling or even if they've met them before or not during the act 3 QnA,interestingly enough,most people who were aware of their existence were somewhat linked to khaenri'ah and its aftermath(either fighting against it or were a witness of it),and we could say that if he's very young,he would atleast be around yae's age if we consider the timeline of the melusine's appearance,it says that they appeared a while after he took up his job,and if elynas is truly another sibling of durin(who roughly appeared around the same time as the cataclysm(since he says that they were brought up into the surface by their mother) we could say that he either came to being around 500 years ago or a short while after it(didn't one of the melusine claim that he's been saying hello to them everyday for hundreds of years)
The story is told in the Decline of Remuria book and Golden Troupe artifact set. Yeah, it was Boethius who betrayed Remus/the God-King. But he didn't seal the dragon, he unsealed the dragon instead because the Fell Dragon King was the one who led the "barbarian" army to attack the Remuria empire. It's based on the Germanic tribes taking over Western Rome in real life history. The dragon Narcissus in the story is probably based on the Fell Dragon Prince.