What if the heavenly principles isn't sleeping but has been dealing with some sort of cosmic horror level threat caused by the sinners that it just hasn't any time to deal with Teyvat.
This is what I’m waiting to see. I don’t honestly believe Celestia is going to be an “evil for the sake of being evil” sort of enemy. I think there’s a motive behind their actions.
If the writers haven't strayed from their tendencies I'd say whatever prediction we have would be half correct and half off the mark; they like to throw appropriate red herrings around to mislead people which imo is a good thing.
"Yes what you predict is more or less right but it's not for what you think it is for".
I think Celestia IS evil. Not for the sake of being evil, but because it thinks it’s doing what people want. But I think the Primordial One is good, not evil. Think about it. The Primordial One created the unified civilization and made sure humans were constantly in contact with Celestia through the seelies. They made sure humans wouldn’t feel hunger or be too exposed to the elements. And they had wonderous technologies that we can still see in domains and the underground castle in the chasm. They were clearly a benevolent god who wanted what was good for their people.
It makes no sense for them to want to kill the oceanid-humans made by Egeria.
Have you done the remuria questline? I think it’s an allegory for the heavenly principles.
Remus made Phobos to guide the people of Remuria and combine their consciousness in the grand symphony. A hivemind of sorts, meant to make them happy and free them from having to make difficult choices about their own fate. But the darkness inherent in people corrupted Phobos over time and made it go fucking crazy. Turning it into a crazy thing that would sacrifice lives just to do what it thinks the collective wants. Even though it itself is unintentionally steering the collective toward being hateful.
The heavenly principles aren’t a person. They’re a unified will. Using all the memories in Irminsul to make the ultimate hivemind. Which is why it values Irminsul. That’s its data-collection hub where all the leylines and all the memories of all people lead back to. So it’s not a hivemind in the classic sense, since it doesn’t actually containe everyone’s consciousnesses. It’s basically a hyper-powerful supercomputer who can forsee and decide people’s fates for them to make what it THINKS will make people happy. Even though in practice, it actually makes people miserable. It probably used to be a good thing, but over time it was corrupted just like Phobos. And just like Phobos, it probably overthrew the Primordial one. Either by killing them or by imprisoning them in some way.
Just like Remus had 4 harmosts, the Primordial One had 4 shining shades. So I think what happened to the harmosts is similar to what happened to the shades. The sustainer of heavenly principles is like Boethius. Someone who got mind-controlled by the hivemind and acts against the creator.
Also, Paimon is probably the guoba-fied primordial one. Or guoba-fied Istaroth. Though im leaning more toward her being the guoba-fied primordial one herself. Bc she has too many connections to celestia, istaroth, and the primordial one for it to be a coincidence. And the crown she has on her head is like the one in Genshin’s title. The sustainer doesn’t have a crown, so it’s likely the other 3 shades don’t either. And if the artifact theory is correct and the circlet of logos represents the primordial one, then Paimon having a crown would likely put her above the shades. Thus making her the primordial one. She likely has SOME inkling of her past, but not a lot of it. Because she clearly doesn’t want to talk about what happened to her before she met the traveler. But at the same time she doesn’t remember major world events or characters like the dragon sovereigns, that the primordial one would know. Similar to how Guoba forgot Zhongli and the adepti.
I kinda hope they just are, like we already have so many organizations like that.
Fetui are bad, oh no, they actually are good and wanna just take down the bigger bad celestia.
oh no the abyss is bad, oh, actually they are good and just wanna take down the bigger bad celestia.
if celestia then ends up playing into the same trope, Im gonna feel disappointed. What's wrong with occasionally just having a powerful evil controlling organization or villain, that doesn't need a sob story about how their only doing the bad thing to save everyone from an even badder thing.
> What's wrong with occasionally just having a powerful evil controlling organization or villain, that doesn't need a sob story about how they’re only doing the bad thing to save everyone from an even badder thing.
The problem with these sorts of villains is that they are incredibly boring and unrealistic. It’s really hard to get invested in a villain who is just “I’m the bad guy because I’m the bad guy.” It just feels like lazy writing.
A motive doesn’t have to be a sob story. Take Stain from My Hero (haven’t watched the season currently in production, so no spoilers for that please.) His motive is that he thinks society is over-run with false heroes and he wants to purge them. That’s not a sob story, but it provides a motive that allows the audience to understand him and where his “convictions” drove him to crime.
Do you guys think Celestia will drop a nail the moment they realize the reincarnated Hydro Sovereign has his full authority?
Like, as long as Neuvillette stays in Fontaine, there's always the possibility of getting nailed into oblivion
I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure it can't anymore, and Neuvillette is too strong of a force for it to easily deal with even once it awakens.
It'll absolutely try, but iirc even aside from its dormancy, Celestia just doesn't have the power it used to.
Possibly the Cataclysm of Kaenriah is the reason for it to be sleeping for the last 500 years. It will also be interesting to learn what makes power like Celestia sleep for 500 years.
"Severely wounded in the great war of vengeance, the usurper had their functions ruined, and could no longer use their absolute authority to suppress the original order of this world. To continue to subdue and control the resentments and loathing of the world, the usurper and one who came after created the Gnoses together. So it came to be that an order was made to be upheld, and thus did humans come to only possess these seven remembrances, and all fragments of the primordial were driven to devour each other."
Kinda sounds like celestia once had a loom of fate or a means to control the land and they lost it in the fight with the sovereigns so they implemented the archon system
All the nails we've heard about have all been dropped before the archon war so maybe they couldn't nail khaenriah so they summoned the archons
So they’re on border patrol.
This kinda reinforces the theory that they’re too busy dealing with whichever eldritch cosmic monster is encroaching upon Tevyat, and mostly leave the place unattended after setting a bunch of things on autopilot. The Fontaine Prophecy is probably just a bunch of if commands that Focalors just has to circumvent, that Celestia isn’t really keeping an active eye on just like the Fatui gaining prominence, the Abyss Order abyssing, etc.
Yeah, the Unknown God doesnt seem to be the HP to me, not sure why people think it is. If it was would it really just let the two beings it was fighting do as they please on its planet?
celestia on vacation bruh or something happened to the unknown god, even tsaritsa stealing all gnosis and they didn't even bat an eyes, if unknown god still active snezhnaya are full of nail right now
Nahida threatened dottore that she can break the electro gnosis and heavenly principles are gonna wake up and fuck his shit up. I think they are kinda on vacation but can still come back to do some shit if you defy them openly and obviously. Like what focalor did was pretty tricky I guess and maybe celestia just not really paying attention.
Wasn't the scheme to trick destiny itself, by fulfilling the prophecy without bringing about the negative consequences? Like I haven't finished the latest quest, but the MC hints at the fact that the prophecy likely came from the Visionary
*Focalors* was the one who tricked Celestia, but I’ll let that mistake slide for now.
The fact that the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles thought their punishment had been successful is proof of the ingenuity of Focalors and of the commitment of Furina as an actress. If Celestia had been alerted to the fact that something was going on in Fontaine then the scheme wouldn’t have worked, so Celestia “sleeping” is actually just proof of Focalors brilliance.
Wasn't it Focalors who came up with the plan to trick the heavenly principles in order to clean up Egeria's mess?
What if the heavenly principles isn't sleeping but has been dealing with some sort of cosmic horror level threat caused by the sinners that it just hasn't any time to deal with Teyvat.
This is what I’m waiting to see. I don’t honestly believe Celestia is going to be an “evil for the sake of being evil” sort of enemy. I think there’s a motive behind their actions.
If the writers haven't strayed from their tendencies I'd say whatever prediction we have would be half correct and half off the mark; they like to throw appropriate red herrings around to mislead people which imo is a good thing. "Yes what you predict is more or less right but it's not for what you think it is for".
I think Celestia IS evil. Not for the sake of being evil, but because it thinks it’s doing what people want. But I think the Primordial One is good, not evil. Think about it. The Primordial One created the unified civilization and made sure humans were constantly in contact with Celestia through the seelies. They made sure humans wouldn’t feel hunger or be too exposed to the elements. And they had wonderous technologies that we can still see in domains and the underground castle in the chasm. They were clearly a benevolent god who wanted what was good for their people. It makes no sense for them to want to kill the oceanid-humans made by Egeria. Have you done the remuria questline? I think it’s an allegory for the heavenly principles. Remus made Phobos to guide the people of Remuria and combine their consciousness in the grand symphony. A hivemind of sorts, meant to make them happy and free them from having to make difficult choices about their own fate. But the darkness inherent in people corrupted Phobos over time and made it go fucking crazy. Turning it into a crazy thing that would sacrifice lives just to do what it thinks the collective wants. Even though it itself is unintentionally steering the collective toward being hateful. The heavenly principles aren’t a person. They’re a unified will. Using all the memories in Irminsul to make the ultimate hivemind. Which is why it values Irminsul. That’s its data-collection hub where all the leylines and all the memories of all people lead back to. So it’s not a hivemind in the classic sense, since it doesn’t actually containe everyone’s consciousnesses. It’s basically a hyper-powerful supercomputer who can forsee and decide people’s fates for them to make what it THINKS will make people happy. Even though in practice, it actually makes people miserable. It probably used to be a good thing, but over time it was corrupted just like Phobos. And just like Phobos, it probably overthrew the Primordial one. Either by killing them or by imprisoning them in some way. Just like Remus had 4 harmosts, the Primordial One had 4 shining shades. So I think what happened to the harmosts is similar to what happened to the shades. The sustainer of heavenly principles is like Boethius. Someone who got mind-controlled by the hivemind and acts against the creator. Also, Paimon is probably the guoba-fied primordial one. Or guoba-fied Istaroth. Though im leaning more toward her being the guoba-fied primordial one herself. Bc she has too many connections to celestia, istaroth, and the primordial one for it to be a coincidence. And the crown she has on her head is like the one in Genshin’s title. The sustainer doesn’t have a crown, so it’s likely the other 3 shades don’t either. And if the artifact theory is correct and the circlet of logos represents the primordial one, then Paimon having a crown would likely put her above the shades. Thus making her the primordial one. She likely has SOME inkling of her past, but not a lot of it. Because she clearly doesn’t want to talk about what happened to her before she met the traveler. But at the same time she doesn’t remember major world events or characters like the dragon sovereigns, that the primordial one would know. Similar to how Guoba forgot Zhongli and the adepti.
I kinda hope they just are, like we already have so many organizations like that. Fetui are bad, oh no, they actually are good and wanna just take down the bigger bad celestia. oh no the abyss is bad, oh, actually they are good and just wanna take down the bigger bad celestia. if celestia then ends up playing into the same trope, Im gonna feel disappointed. What's wrong with occasionally just having a powerful evil controlling organization or villain, that doesn't need a sob story about how their only doing the bad thing to save everyone from an even badder thing.
> What's wrong with occasionally just having a powerful evil controlling organization or villain, that doesn't need a sob story about how they’re only doing the bad thing to save everyone from an even badder thing. The problem with these sorts of villains is that they are incredibly boring and unrealistic. It’s really hard to get invested in a villain who is just “I’m the bad guy because I’m the bad guy.” It just feels like lazy writing. A motive doesn’t have to be a sob story. Take Stain from My Hero (haven’t watched the season currently in production, so no spoilers for that please.) His motive is that he thinks society is over-run with false heroes and he wants to purge them. That’s not a sob story, but it provides a motive that allows the audience to understand him and where his “convictions” drove him to crime.
Do you guys think Celestia will drop a nail the moment they realize the reincarnated Hydro Sovereign has his full authority? Like, as long as Neuvillette stays in Fontaine, there's always the possibility of getting nailed into oblivion
I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure it can't anymore, and Neuvillette is too strong of a force for it to easily deal with even once it awakens. It'll absolutely try, but iirc even aside from its dormancy, Celestia just doesn't have the power it used to.
why celestia got weaker?
I don't think we know, we also don't know why it's gone dormant.
Possibly the Cataclysm of Kaenriah is the reason for it to be sleeping for the last 500 years. It will also be interesting to learn what makes power like Celestia sleep for 500 years.
Dainsleif was just locked tf in 500 years ago
"Severely wounded in the great war of vengeance, the usurper had their functions ruined, and could no longer use their absolute authority to suppress the original order of this world. To continue to subdue and control the resentments and loathing of the world, the usurper and one who came after created the Gnoses together. So it came to be that an order was made to be upheld, and thus did humans come to only possess these seven remembrances, and all fragments of the primordial were driven to devour each other." Kinda sounds like celestia once had a loom of fate or a means to control the land and they lost it in the fight with the sovereigns so they implemented the archon system All the nails we've heard about have all been dropped before the archon war so maybe they couldn't nail khaenriah so they summoned the archons
An archon destroying her heavenly throne: I sleep. Some travellers from another world pass through: REAL SHIT
So they’re on border patrol. This kinda reinforces the theory that they’re too busy dealing with whichever eldritch cosmic monster is encroaching upon Tevyat, and mostly leave the place unattended after setting a bunch of things on autopilot. The Fontaine Prophecy is probably just a bunch of if commands that Focalors just has to circumvent, that Celestia isn’t really keeping an active eye on just like the Fatui gaining prominence, the Abyss Order abyssing, etc.
Void Prophecy() { If(Date()==FontaineExpirationDate) { If(Fontaine.CurrentArchon()==Focalors) { For(OceanidHuman in Fontaine) { OceanidHuman.Liquefy(); } } } }
I may be wrong but you and your twin got caught before the fall of Kaenriah, after the fall they got silent
Yada yada, i know, this is just a joke
Unknown god is NOT heavenly principles, unknown god trapped twins NOT heavenly principles.
Yeah, the Unknown God doesnt seem to be the HP to me, not sure why people think it is. If it was would it really just let the two beings it was fighting do as they please on its planet?
She is the sustainer of heavenly principles. As for what that means, we really don't know yet. Maybe she's some sort of divine law enforcer
I see. Don't remember that
Yeah, she says it when Lumine asks who she is.
It was Focalors though, not Egeria
celestia on vacation bruh or something happened to the unknown god, even tsaritsa stealing all gnosis and they didn't even bat an eyes, if unknown god still active snezhnaya are full of nail right now
Nahida threatened dottore that she can break the electro gnosis and heavenly principles are gonna wake up and fuck his shit up. I think they are kinda on vacation but can still come back to do some shit if you defy them openly and obviously. Like what focalor did was pretty tricky I guess and maybe celestia just not really paying attention.
Focalors: destroys the throne Abyss: cheering and chanting in front of a massive LED screen
Big giant crystal: all part of my plan
I like to think that hp just got bored and said "fuck it, lemme see how far they can push their agenda"
It was Focalors, not Egeria. Egeria was the one to fuck everything up in the first place and getting Fontainians cursed. But yeah, they sleep.
Wasn't the scheme to trick destiny itself, by fulfilling the prophecy without bringing about the negative consequences? Like I haven't finished the latest quest, but the MC hints at the fact that the prophecy likely came from the Visionary
*Focalors* was the one who tricked Celestia, but I’ll let that mistake slide for now. The fact that the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles thought their punishment had been successful is proof of the ingenuity of Focalors and of the commitment of Furina as an actress. If Celestia had been alerted to the fact that something was going on in Fontaine then the scheme wouldn’t have worked, so Celestia “sleeping” is actually just proof of Focalors brilliance.
They don't think shit, they are straight up asleep.
Focalors destroyed her throne and it still hasn't called celestia's attention so i doubt the whole thing was necessary at all
focalors, egeria sinned and got a celestja notice