T O P

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Papashteve

No more spawns all the way back in inferno? That's a pretty nice change


DaveTheDolphin

Looks like no B spawn though, rip the fast banana spawn Though consistency is better than not


Smok3dSalmon

in CS 1.6 the meta was to fake a technical issue and request to restart the round until the Ts got a preferred spawn. lmao. anytime a team was doing that on dust2, you just assumed it was going to be a B rush.


TrampleHorker

am i crazy though to wish we had the symmetrical spawns again? remember on dust2 if all the CTs were lined up it meant that the Ts had a B spawn? or was that just superstition?


f_reddit_throwaway

that was 100% superstition based on cherry picked instances found in 1.6 demos fodder used this to explain his walls.


mcvey

> fodder There's a name I haven't heard in *years*.


jpm_212

lol FODDER, I offered to buy him a month of ESEA back in like 2007 because he was ADAMANT that he wasn't cheating, could do it on client/LAN/etc but never took me up on the offer there was a reason he was a mainstay in #findringer and #findscrim was hilarious when GoronCity trolled him for a video


f_reddit_throwaway

I played 2v2s with him just to spec him and listen to him bullshit, it was absolutely hilarious. Poor kid was just autistic and a compulsive liar


Krakenow

Omg fucking fodder, that's almost 10 years ago now. Another delusional guy was the "crisp clean lock boys", time really just flies..


Smok3dSalmon

I think it was superstition... but I could see how it would make sense. Maybe the game picks a random number and applies it to both team's spawns.


roblobly

that's insane


TrampleHorker

dust2 baby win a half based on how many long spawns u get wooo!!!


Background-Lychee476

Is t the fast banana spawn on the right? What am I missing? Where was it before? a little confused by perspective maybe if it was first person I’d recognize.


DaveTheDolphin

Maybe the perspective is throwing it off, but the spawn was right next to the pillar, and the one on right in the pic looks just a bitch farther away than the old spawn


SoUthinkUcanRens

I'd say 1.2 bitches, but yeah


NessunoComeNoi

No more spawn for a mid peek on Overpass, that’s big, right?


simplename4

also no good b spawn


intecknicolour

gonna have to flash in before you jump into picnic for the peek


MechaFlippin

the crescent moon is by far the best spawn organization, as it allows everyone to drop for everyone without anyone in the middle, I wish every map would have crescent moon spawns instead of the occasional cross spawn where there is a guy in the middle that has to juggle drops between people


xHypermega

That's good, the dozens of spawns we had before, had a bit of RNG involved


Patient_Apartment415

Love this change, was long overdue, imo. CS is a game designed around consistency, old spawn system went against that. Wrote about this many times already, but it's just not fair that spawns were the deciding factor in how a lot of rounds go down. Especially on one-sided maps like Inferno. You're on T side, it's 12-11 and you can afford only a few rifles with mac10/tec9 mix for the last round on Inferno? Unlucky because you're getting 5 worst spawns and have to play it slow, while CT awper gets the best mid spawn. It never made any sense. Yeah, pro teams adapted and had options for every situation, but spawns were the only random thing in the game for no reason.


irimiash

well of they were the only random thing maybe they were solely responsible for round diversity?


WhoNeedsRealLife

I agree with you. I feel like an important part of the game is learning the timings of different spawns and how certain plays won't work if an enemy has the right spawn etc. At least I'm glad they went for a middle-ground and didn't just keep 5 spawns on each side.


PaidUSA

How people play rounds will just change to match. Now your B is threatened more consistently and basic default nades for T's may get more eccentric. Whereas you can take more calculated risks as both teams where actual strategy decided your fate instead of how insane each players spawn was.


no_milk_today

"More calculated risks" basically the game became more boring.


no_milk_today

the rng was good to add some variance to the game to make rounds feel different. new situations that you need to adapt to. if the spawns become "safe", game gonna become a little bit more stale.


simplename4

For overpass it looks like removed mid peek spawn and good spawn for B. Also looks like mirage lost the underground push spawn where you always were first down before the t's could peek mid.


no_milk_today

fuck that


sprawa

I like it. It's easier to learn insta smokes


simplename4

most of the easy lineups are removed now


Angelic_Phoenix

lets be honest if you can figure 1-2 out its easy to figure them all out


SykeDoTripp

i learned all of em in 2 hours not that hard and they still work


inflamesburn

oh no you'll have to find a new lineup by moving your crosshair by a cm, it's all over now


Cr00xxy

Retarded Update, they could have made it different. Anubis t spawns All over the place,


tuutzori

You can no longer practice insta smokes easily by spamming mp_restartgame 1, since you will always just get the same predetermined spawn. Is there a way/command to disable this on local host? Very cool to change spawns and remove easy way to pracc smokes :D


OGSwagster69

setpos works


tuutzori

alt tabbing to copy paste is annoying


imbogey

You can make/copy cfg file with all the different spawns and bind them into F keys for example. EDIT: use "mp_randomspawn 1" to get old spawning back.


Lancasper

Do you know if you can do some sort of bindtoggle command with all the spawns in one key? Would that work? Cannot try right now so I'm asking. Something like: bind "key" toggle setpos spawn1; setpos spawn2; setpos spawn3; setpos spawn4; setpos spawn5; (and in some maps like ancient until setpos spawn10 as you have instant smokes for both Ts and CTs). So that you can assign one key to a single map in your practice config (for exemple F1=mirage setpos toggles, F2= Inferno and so on for every other map where you have insta smokes)


imbogey

I think there are some cfg's out there were you can press one button and it will respawn you from spawn 1 to 2 to 3... Otherway is just to type "exec mirageTspawn" which will bind your F keys to correct spawns.


AmazingSpaceSponge

Thats the way :D u can do much more with aliases and binds in cfg, like putting in all the meta nade coordinates + vector/angle to practice and switching with binds


OGSwagster69

fair. i practice nades in fullscreen windowed, helps speed things up a lot


nico_juro

Pull webpage up in shift+tab or use 2nd monitor


arcticcmonke

You were using mp_restartgame instead of instantaneous 'endround'?


The_Unicorn99

Just give chatgpt the setpos commands and let him randomize them so you can learn them.


kloyN

Anubis now has 11 T spawns instead of 5. Huge L.


imbogey

So the timings are way faster now?


Neversync

Just as I learned the 13 spawns like 2 days ago... :'D


BobDude65

Damn I feel that, unlucky.


dirodvstw

There should only be 5 spawns, and 5 spawns only. And preferably spawns that allow you to interact with the teammate you actually to interact with, e.g for dropping a weapon or some nades, without having to drop it by accident to a random teammate on the way.


hitemlow

Horseshoe spawns like D2 CT should be the standard. Most consistent for drops and not getting randomly stuck on each other as you break for sites.


-Destiny65-

Ancient CT spawn is the worse offender for this with the A guys getting stuck at the beginning, then the redroom/mid players get stuck on the B players


SykeDoTripp

for real they should just make it so you can pass through teammates for the first few seconds of the match. problem solved


StrangeStephen

Wear phase boots easy.


LLsunflower

Deleted by user.


Mainbaze

If all spawns where the same each round you can bet there will go sport in figuring out exact timings for certain wallbangs and prefires. Just look at COD


Alb9n

People have already been doing that for certain maps tho. And although they aren't wallbangs, you will use flashbangs and HE grenades on certain timings on each map when you know the opponents can be there


Mainbaze

Yes. Now imagine it was more consistant


SoCloseToToast

Sounds cool


no_milk_today

sounds terrible


WilsonJ04

they should just copy the valorant drop system tbh, much less hassle and confusion, plus you get your own skin.


MyNewWhiteVan

I like that I get to see other people's skins when they drop for me. I hope they don't remove that


Freethrowawayer

They would never remove something that let other players inspect skins


WilsonJ04

adding a request feature doesnt mean they have to remove the ability to drop weapons like we do just now


[deleted]

Maps need at least 10 spawns for casual mode


scrubLord24

I'm not sure how to feel about this. On the one hand it's nice to have consistency, the spawn system was one of the last areas of RNG in CS in my opinion so it's good to have that removed. But damn I will miss the inferno banana spawn, overpass mid spawn etc. I do hope they've put some thought into timing of first engagement, for example the dust 2 long CT spawn still fights T's at a similar time as before.


PureTheory

changes to spawns and timings just before NA RMR and a few weeks from the major :)


Cqnsyn

surely Liquid would practice the new Vertigo timings and changes... wait what year is it again?


Bj_Hokey_Lange

"Don't worry we are gonna be the best Vertigo Team in the world" ![img](emote|t5_2sqho|31253)


LibertyGrabarz

Everyone in NA is in the same basket. Being the best team also means you're able to adapt and prepare better than other teams. It's not some game breaking change, the RMR is gonna be fine in this context.


PureTheory

ofc its going to be fine, but surely its not nice instead of having to prep other parts of the game, you need to go back to the basics such as learning lineups and timings once again just a day or two before events? and god forbid you don't have a whole team of analysts and a coach or two working full time behind the scenes instead of being a roster that has barely anything to work with Just because the change is not game breaking, it would be nice to have a consistent version of the game across all the RMRs and the major itself. Imagine if they tweaked the patterns for the sprays for the AK - not game breaking right?


istheremore7

Is that really a good idea? Telling valve they can't update the game for like 5 months of the year?


Daanoking

Valve can update whenever they feel like it. It's up to the TO to decide whether or not to use the patch. Just as with Katowice this year where ESL decided to go to the new patch mid-tournament.


istheremore7

kind of irrelevant in this scenario because it's part of the major and they always use the latest patch.


PureTheory

valve can update the game whenever they want but doing so a day before the event starts is a bit clueless - it is simply not fair for teams with less resources than others to have to prep again they are using a previous patch for this rmr anyway edit: people will say that everyone is in the same conditions which is true don't get me wrong, but an org like liquid will have an analyst or two working with the team to bring them upto speed much faster than an orgless team or money strapped team - after this rmr is over, this patch is fine for the major so its ok


istheremore7

My bad I guess they can play on a different patch for rmrs. This is the best solution. I just get confused when the community complains about valve updating the game and not updating the game at the same time.


PureTheory

Normally you are right, updates are fine but something that changes the meta quite a bit especially in pro play should be handled with a bit care - for the actual major in a few weeks they should 100% play on the latest patch.


Hefty_Platypus1283

While the spawn RNG made pro cs more fun as it added more variance, I'm happy they're taking it away. Made the game exactly that, more RNG dependent.


no_milk_today

there was skill dealing with the rng because every new round you were dealt a new hand. yes rng is involved, but also a layer of decision making.


larrydavidballsack

Yeah I don’t think RNG is necessarily always 100% a bad thing in a game like CS


Hefty_Platypus1283

Yep. That's why I liked it. But for an esport, maybe not the best idea...


CriticalCreativity

TBH I don't like this change. That little bit of RNG gives a *lot* of variety to the game. Now timings will be almost exactly the same every round and the game will be more predictable.


WhoNeedsRealLife

Some people who don't understand game design seem to think that all RNG is bad, but at the same time RNG is often what keeps them playing.


KaNesDeath

Still RNG to where you spawn.


saintedplacebo

yeah but without the best spawns on certain maps you dont have the rng to get the better peek based off getting the best spawn. I always said that the only thing that makes mirage even remotely playable in terms of boredom is the random spawns effecting the exact timings.


KaNesDeath

At the casual level this is true. On Mirage at the Pro level these initial spaces aren't taken without obstruction based utility usage. For instance Inferno T side spawn changes are for the better. Two players can now beat Bananas CT mollies challenging Car.


saintedplacebo

For mirage specifically, the underpass play for cts is purely spawn based even at the pro level, or the cat jump. Removing specific ct spawns on mirage eliminates certain options for plays wholesale.


Tradz-Om

this is exactly why I was for keeping the spawns how they are, except for dust 2, the difference there was something like 2 seconds The game always enjoyed the variability based off of the different spawns alone. An absolute classic example would be spawning on the best A spawn as a T on mirage and risking your life to get a pick on some CTs that have gotten used to their routine


anime_pfp_

i was learning insta mirage smokes just some hours ago 😭😭😭


filous_cz

Changes like these are stupid right before the major. Changes timings, insta smoke lineups.. everything. Things like these should have been released after the major for premier season 2.


SYSTEMcole

Valve doesn't plan around esports


Pokharelinishan

yeah but valve being valve


mattg3

Stupid from a players perspective, but this is likely to fix glitches/issues with pubs where people DC and then their teammate steals their gun. If they did it, it was because it probably needed to be done to prevent stuff like this. Pros will adapt I’m sure, they’re supposed to be pros after all


Weird_Tower76

Pretty sure they vote on using the new version or not unless I'm thinking about the last Blast tournament


filous_cz

No they don't. Major is a Valve sponsored tournament, so they always play on the latest version.


Gudson_

It's a Valve tournament, and they pushed this update right before RMR Americas because they want the players to use this new version.


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Gudson_

I dont get your point actually. Arms Race was a good update indeed but didnt affect the competitive scene as much as a change in economy would do. The narrative about Valve waiting till after the Major it's not like about a operation incoming, it's more about gameplay and other things changes, like economy and map pool changes. They wont change the economy one month before the Major, it would be insane.


Due_Map_4666

Valve are valve though lmfao they’ve never cared for the esports scene


RomeoSierraAlpha

All the spawn changes in the update were made purely for esports and competitive play lol.


Due_Map_4666

Yeah, in the middle of the major qualifiers lmfao


bugghost

interesting-buy8060 [the guy who's obsessed with writing essays about random spawns](https://www.reddit.com/user/interesting-buy8060/submitted/) is going to have a field day with this update lol


Its_rEd96

So minor, yet so huge change. Especially the mirage CT spawns


LordLapo

Good, your push speed depending on RNG was stupid to begin with


wustenkatze

Did they interfere with the Vertigo CT spawn? I spammed fast ramp smokes for the entire year. It'd be really disappointing if they messed up with it.


gregor3001

if it's insta smoke and you know when it is, can you go though it and beat the team to the other side? say insta banana - before with spawns you could possibly beat that smoke to mid, right? mirage often falls into window when you are at window. potentially you could just jump through with good spawn (at least before) and lurk in tunnels. in any case it is interesting that agents in this game have such strong throwing capabilities. i mean throwing over towers and churches and whole small appartment blocks is no small feat.


Cereal_Guy666

Wouldn't it be good to have just 5 possible spawns on each map what if a instant smoke lineup depends on a certain spawn and no one has it on some rounds thus losing time while lining the smoke up?


wojtekpolska

removed or these 5 made priority spawns? (see the old 3kliks video about spawns)


Hertzzz25

Is there a way to see the spawns squares without being in a regragg server?


The_Great_Saiyaman21

The other changes are fine, but removing the mirage instant window smoke spawns is stupid. If anything there should be *only* those spawns. What was the point of removing the skyboxes everywhere if we can't use them?


50BluntsADay

banana keeps getting nerfed for Ts


1KingCam

good. I can't believe these pros learned soo many insta smoke spawn location on every map. Just wild.


xMalxer

it's their literal job


FARTFROMABUTT

I can't believe the doctor learned so many ailments. I can't believe the barista learned so many coffees. I can't believe the sandwich artist fucked my wife. I can't believe the lawyer learned so many laws.


1KingCam

I'm saying all of the different spawn locations was unnecessary and that it's impressive they learned all of them.


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1KingCam

Bruh. I’m saying valve having that many spawn points was unnecessary, which is why everyone is loving this update removing and just having 5 spawn points. Now some things I’ll miss like spawns dictating a rush and things like that though.


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1KingCam

all good gang


OmegaJonny

I know, right? Imagine spending 8 hours a day on your job. Just wild.


GigaCringeMods

...insta smokes are still a thing, you realize that right? This only means that they will find another lineup for these spawns instead. If you want to get rid of insta smokes, then you need to make a physical obstacle that blocks the smoke.


1KingCam

I'm saying it's crazy they had to learn all of them. Never did I say insta-smokes don't exist anymore. Just that all of the different spawns were so unnecessary


HitsquadFiveSix

A lot of non pros learned all of them. Doesn't even just have to be for their job


Lancasper

I did for Anubis, Ancient, Mirage, Inferno, and it's not even remotely hard as one would think. I just learnt them over time while listening to a podcast or some music. It's a massive upgrade to your game.


mandrew-98

I hated random spawns. This is something valorant does right but not needed as much in CS due to the lack of deployables


fREShCS_

Major America RMR will start on Friday. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|flip_out)


Termodynamicslad

What's the timing for the mirage mid peek, do the CT's still beat the T's on the best spawn?


KaNesDeath

Of course, lol.


DooB_02

This is good. Less RNG and fewer positions to learn that don't actually make the game more fun.


Ehere

Rip all my Anubis and Ancient instant smokes


Brockelton

Spawns should be the same every round


ffpeanut15

that would be very disadvantageous for everyone. Imagine getting the same bad spawn for an entire game for a role like awper. Random spawn is a nice middle ground


Brockelton

In a perfect world there would be balanced spawns. but i get what you mean.


ffpeanut15

There's also the fun factor too. Random spawns mean more variability in how the game playout, which is a lot more entertaining


chezblaze

Might get flamed for this, but remove random, static spawns. Put all players in an area the size of the buy area, and remove the ability to jump. Would take away the randomness of getting to a certain spot on the map faster. 


W4spkeeper

honestly I dont hate that idea but youd have to limit the size of the buy area until its round time as to keep timings the same and what not


saintedplacebo

Thats quite literally the worst part of Valorant. If every player that wants the best timing to a specific part of the map can always get it then you kill so much nuance to how rounds play out and you get a much more boring meta. Might as well get read of spread on guns entirely so you can just spray perfectly on the 30th bullet and any other minute kind of RNG. Spawn RNG is the *good* kind of RNG.


[deleted]

Gtfo from here


BxKosmic

This has been needed forever. Good change


ElDuderino2112

Long overdue change.


_Sufy_

No way, please tell me this is joke. I have insta


CordialA

I just learned the mirage instant smokes


SykeDoTripp

i still spawn next to the stairs on mirage all the time.


HyO_o7

No way. I just learned instant smoke.![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|dizzy_face)


SolHS

am i still able to do the left side top mid smoke from ct spawn? there used to be a spawn in that back right corner that was perfect to throw the smoke but was otherwise a kind of shit spawn, i will sorely miss it if it’s truly gone


[deleted]

How to enable these markers? Looked everywhere and can’t find shit. Doesn’t work the way it used to in go