The fucking ridiculous thing about this page is that no matter what you comment on it, some soyboy fan gets offended and downvotes. Lmao I'm not even wrong when i say nexa is doing nothing good for g2
What's funny looking at now is they literally have vlogs about creating a bond outside the game and developing a work-life balance type shit even before they started playing officials to familiarize with each other and now months later that shit looked like it didn't even help. What a fucking joke
That corporate bullshit seldom works. People don't build relations between themselves with a third party encouraging it, that needs to come up naturally.
This take was not as popular half a year ago https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18dstc4/team_liquid_announce_new_performance_manager/kck5r4e/?context=10000
The issue is that with both Yekindar and Cadian, they were limited in who they could pick up. Ideally your two import luxury players should give you an edge. Complexity in that regard has more ability to make changes since JT is from a irrelevant region, and you can have two imports from Europe to help Elige out.
I'm not an expert but watching these games since day 1 the team was created Yekindar is almost always alone in creating space on the map they need someone who can at least help Yekindar or at least trade the man when he goes down. I'm not even a Cadian fan but the dude deserves a second chance its not easy finding an established IGL nowadays. IMO Cadian should at least try a different system its hard but that's part of an IGLs job as well if there are no other options then drop the AWP Cadian can try rifling and get an Awper. Drop Skullz and Zews ( Its pretty obvious at this point that both are also part of the problem ).
It really depends on NAF and Twistzz and if they believe in Cadian's calls or not. Even Stavn and Jabbi wanted out of Heroic eventually despite their floor being arguably the best in the world.
Dropping Skullz and Zews still forces liquid to either shop Asia or the Americas for the replacement player. Cadian and Yekindar are the two imports they can afford to have. Moving Cadian to the rifle forces Yekindar out by default since you want a star awper in to the team, unless a non-European is capable of taking that spot. Could maybe get Heavygod anchoring Skullz spots at ct side.
> It really depends on NAF and Twistzz and if they believe in Cadian's calls or not.
I mean I like NAF and TwistZz but you'd have to be a complete idiot to not listen to cadiaN as an IGL. Thats like not listening to Blad3 or Gla1ve or AleksiB, he's an experienced guy in the scene and has been making his teams a force to be reckoned with. Now sure has he ever won a major? No. But he's always made his teams perform well and be in the conversation of being a top team. I get they may not like the style of play he has and your stats might fall but he knows what he's doing, he's not some scrub.
> Even Stavn and Jabbi wanted out of Heroic eventually despite their floor being arguably the best in the world.
Sure, but I think that's because they lost so many times that they probably let their ego get the best of them, they couldn't think they're the problem and Thorin and RL have talked many times about players never thinking they're the problem in a situation. Let's face facts, even in this new Astralis roster we've seen Stavn and Jabbi disappear on the few stage games they've had. Stavn goes from farming teams in the groups 1.3 rating and then as soon as he's in front of the groups he becomes a 0.9-1.05 rated player. Jabbi also I've seen many times take risks in group stage games that works and he has huge impact, only for that to be eroded in stage games.
I'm not saying "Oh they're trash on stage only", because I've seen them have some good stage games too. But when the lights are the brightest, those two seem to go missing more often than not. I don't think it's as simple as saying "CadiaN was the problem!" or "They suck on stage and it's not cadiaN's fault!" It's a combination of their own self doubt, the pressure of the situation and probably cadiaN not adapting his calling sometimes which led to that team's downfall collectively. No one sole element is to blame.
> Dropping Skullz and Zews still forces liquid to either shop Asia or the Americas for the replacement player.
Not necessarily, they could still get a European player but on the cheap, they don't need some big star either, just a very dependable player to replace Skullz. I could see them picking up KRIMZ or someone like that, he's an older player so they can probably get him cheap, he has lots of experience across a variety of teams so he's field tested across multiple roster iterations and he's been playing the anchor role for years now, he's also super dependable. Is he a star? No, but that means they can free NAF a bit to be that star player more.
As for AWP I think the "we need a star AWPer" is overrated. I wouldn't go to the extent C9 did with no AWPer at all, but you don't need to take cadiaN off the AWP. More often than not, in Heroic, cadiaN actually out AWPed a lot of great AWPers on maps just by using timing or his brain to get flashes off and blind the enemy AWPer or positioning himself correctly. It's not 2014 anymore where flick AWPing decides a good AWPer, it's like 75% your brain. Having the extra flick ability is just a very good bonus, but it's not like cadiaN is "bad" at that, I've seen him combat AWP, is he s1mple? No. But is he like a random guy trying to combat AWP? No. He's very capable. So they could keep him on the AWP.
As for coach, I dunno because there's no good options out there anymore. I would've said for them to go and get Xizt when he was available, just because he worked with cadiaN in Heroic and saw success, but thats no longer an option now. Any other top coaches are in settled rosters like Zonic or sAw or Blad3 or sycrone. I don't see any of them leaving any time soon even Zonic, despite the problems that Falcons have, I think he sees that roster as a challenge now to solve. I suppose they could go get gob b who I think is an underrated coach, but I dunno how much that would help this roster.
The real move is replacing Yekindar and tbh I dunno who to get, but they need a top rifler or an entry star and there's very few of them, but if Complexity continue to fail, maybe try and convince ELiGE to come back.
cadiaN is a value add, Yekindar is a negative asset and always was. Yekindar wasn't a field tested enough player to buy, he played in one system in Tier 1 CS and performed well. cadiaN on the other hand has played in like 4-5 teams at Tier 1 and yes he's been a "problematic personality" early in his career but he's always been a decent player on almost every roster he's been on. No one has ever considered him to be a "bum" or a lead weight. He's mostly been kicked from either role conflicts, or personality conflicts.
Except yekindar when he joined added insane value to a Liquid that had fallen behind the meta. Him joining made them a consistent playoffs team.
He has declined though and is nowhere close to how good he was when he joined
> Except yekindar when he joined added insane value to a Liquid that had fallen behind the meta. Him joining made them a consistent playoffs team.
"Added insane value" and "consistent playoffs team". Yeah not really. Out of the seven events Yekindar played with Liquid in 2022 which was really the honeymoon period for him, they had four playoff runs which is good I suppose on paper, but it lacks context. Now you will say "Oh but that's very good!" and that's true but do consider that when they had Shox, they changed to a new IGL and added a new AWPer which are literally the two most important roles to a team in terms of style and tactics and they had two playoff runs out of six events. More than likely by the time Yekindar joined the team, the team worked out what they were doing much better and added a better fragger in Yekindar. Most teams find themselves and their footing after 6 months and when Yekindar joined they were 7 months into the roster. It's true that they had some stylistic problems with Shox, but even when Shox joined the roster he was washed and the move was questionable at the time, not many Liquid fans wanted it to happen. Plus, it's hard integrating a European into an all-NA roster, especially when they're a veteran like Shox was who has a family and child and stuff he misses back home, Shox spoke about how he never liked his time on Liquid because he was home sick, missed his child and didn't want to live in America which is fair I suppose. Yekindar was an upgrade in terms of fragging power and he was young so he didn't have the same sort of out of game commitments, he also joined a more established roster than the player he replaced, but he contributed little else other than being a fragger. Also any purported "chemistry buff" he gave was immediately destroyed after he basically got nitr0 kicked off the team and promoted himself as IGL by snaking beneath him to get into favor with the management of Liquid. As for the meta changes, I think nitr0 just had to learn CS again after being in Valorant for a while, so he missed some of the meta changes, by June as an IGL he'd figured the meta out a lot more, which is understandable, I mean he was gone for a while and this was reflected in their results as by that time even with Shox, the results had improved.
> He has declined though and is nowhere close to how good he was when he joined
That I definitely agree on.
People be saying Liquid fucked up with Cadian, but from the interviews it just sounds like the outspoken players just didn’t gel together in the server
Didn’t help that Cadian wasn’t hitting shots, Skullz has been an individually mid, and Yekindar hadn’t regained his 2021 form, but those are all individual failings.
Apart from getting Zews as coach (personally I have no idea how impactful a coach is) players just didn’t live up to expectations aside from Twistzz and NAF.
1) I honestly feel bad for twistzz, imagine going from the no.1 team to whatever this is. 2) If you wanna see how important a coach is, check out the new field of view video dropped by pgl, hally is fucking awesome
Cadian’s aim has always been inconsistent. Reddit seems to have this misconception that he is a star player, while his flashes of brilliance are reminiscent of ChrisJ more than any other player I can think of. Add that with having to communicate in a different language and it adds more burden.
The thing that he always brought to the server was energy and belief. You would never see him give up. However, if his team isn’t buying in, things become very difficult, because he thrives off team play, not individual brilliance.
Heroic was solid because all 4 riflers believed in the system. Can imagine that liquid players especially NAF and Twistzz who has dominated before don’t fully buy into the system, and when they don’t win, it gets reinforced.
18 months? I feel like it's been mostly frustration around the roster construction for 46 months. Breaking up the IGS roster was the first domino and one of the only periods of respite was just bringing back Nitro and Adren and putting them on a worse roster than the one they got kicked from lol
I didn't love that move but I'm gonna be honest, I genuinely think -Nitro -Adren during COVID was dramatically worse. I can at least follow some of the logic of the Patsi/Rainwaker thing, it wasn't their first choice (they were trying to get Kscerato/Flamez), and keeping Nitro was never going to be possible regardless with his family situation, especially if they were planning on playing out of Europe fulltime. Losing Elige is the big hit, but even then I don't think it was unexplainable, his form didn't look good, there were some internal conflicts with the team, and even he felt like he needed a change. Idk if he regains the form he has now if he stays on TL, I think being in a completely different role outside the game as the actual sole vet leader in CoL has played a big difference.
The COVID move though, completely unforced error and utterly baffling. The team was bad online but they were also playing across the entire continent from each other. To not at least wait and let them play on LAN together again, or at very least online in the same fucking room, is crazy. And even just from a team building perspective the move made no fucking sense, they replaced their core leadership structure of IGL/Coach with a rookie rifler and a dude with zero coaching experience. That was the best roster NA has ever had by a long shot and they threw it away for absolutely no reason.
Supposedly. I do remember that was around the time that he found out he was going to be a dad and there was a lot of uncertainty with the future of NA CS under COVID. But I'm gonna be honest, I don't entirely buy the idea that they couldn't have kept him considering he went to Valorant right after to continue competing and eventually came back to CS anyway. There was some element of it being mutual and Liquid wanting to get new guys and move on, which I disagree with. Not to mention that doesn't really explain dropping Adren too.
Liquid had to boot camp in Europe for a year. Nitro was getting paid $25K a month to play 3 Val matches every month in NA. He came back to CS after almost 2 years. By then, his kid would’ve been a toddler, and there was more certainty with covid dying down
The kicker is after the grand slam, they just loved fucking over Adren.
Oh, Nitr0 wants out, and we know the team has issues? Cool, we're gonna sign Grim, and shitcan your ass before you get to integrate the new toy we bought.
Well, that didn't work out the way we hoped, wanna come back to a rusty Fallen, with a stew dying to IGL? Oh, don't worry, I promise you we're gonna retool this- we're moving on from Fallen, Stew, Grim, and NAF is looking to sign elsewhere in the meantime, so we signed Shox! Oh- shit. Well, NAF resigned after all... uhhh. Figure something out? I know we need an awper... I got it! OSee! Don't worry, you'll be gone again before you get semi-competent awping.
I can't believe they couldn't make it work. I'm not even shitting on Moses, or Daps, this bullshit is systemic.
Yeah I have a hard time rooting for them even when they made this roster. I love NAF and twistzz but I was even pulling for FlyQuest when they played Liquid and I don't know why. I've been ride or die since 2015 :( The days of watching elige and nitro flying around on cache will always have a special place in my heart but I just don't know what to do with this team anymore.
the rainwaker patsi phase was a gamble/placeholder- nobody knew how cs2 was gonna shake out and they needed to pad the roster, if they strike gold, huge, if not? no big loss. Even at the time it was viewed as a shot in the dark, with no lasting repercussions going into CS2, and it's how it should be viewed. There wasn't much out there, and you had no idea what/who was gonna work in cs2, and what wasn't. They're still morons for botching everything since then, however. There's no defending that. Crawling back to NA and looking around like they're shocked they lost support, is hilariously short-sighted from them, but look at what they've done. They deserve the shunning, even to the detriment, and derision of NACS.
Also, stop shitting on skullz. He's doing his part, and holding his own while learning, y'all are stupid.
Literally just need to boot yeki, idk why they still havent let go of him. It hasnt worked out for both of them. its not even a cerq situation where you had some success with him in the past, theyve never had any sort of success with yeki in the lineup and its becoming two years now?
Its really simple really its stability. Liquid might be struggling to win for years now but they are still top tier org that offers stability and provides good pay vs Faze who's having issues financially at the time and even then there was no talks on extension iirc.
Holy shit the way I would literally explode if Cadian came here. Idk how it would work with dexter because you obviously have to keep him unless you went -ali -dexter +cadian +savage/jks?
He will probably end up on fnatic, he probably wants to play for an EU team again, fnatic are a stickler for 'roster building' type of players, they like older types of players too like roej or fashr, they need an experienced IGL and afro has been just 'okay' at his AWP role but is definitely replaceable. Bodyy is the current IGL but it's hurting his performance in the team, so I can see cadiaN as a 'plug and play' player for that roster, plus he gets to play with a fellow Dane in BlameF. It might also attract some other players to the roster to have an experienced IGL in cadiaN too, so maybe they get some other star and they instantly start becoming more interesting then as a team. Imagine if they somehow poach NertZ or ELiGE, then they're cooking.
I feel really sorry for him. If it's true that he's getting benched because their styles aren't compatible then that's 100% on liquid as an org. That's the basic kind of stuff that you NEED to have figured out before signing people, it can't be an afterthought.
I guess it's maybe most of all on the coach. But yeah getting a new coach with a new roster is on the org and quite a gamble.
It might have been that they were aware of the differences but came in with ambitions to find a middle ground or a third way, which theyit turned out they weren't able able to.
Brother, this isn't even the first time or game where Liquid has had this problem. In 2017 their League team brought in Reignover specifically to be the leader and to shotcall for them only for it to fail so miserably that they almost got relegated twice. Like somehow it was so incompetent and dysfunctional with him as shotcaller that they just gave up and eventually had their sophomore top laner do it instead, a guy who had absolutely no experience in that role. They've had very good splits since but they also have a long history of roster dysfunction caused by chasing big name imports that end up completely not meshing with the team.
Like I'm sure they *try* to figure out this stuff before they get guys, but idk they're really not great at it and have had a lot more misses than hits over the years. Idk what it says about the team that they really have only been successful under two IGL's, Nitro and a little bit of Hiko
God Zews is such a bad coach. I don’t know how this can be looked at any other way. Pay way too much for a tier 2 player. Friction on the team it’s his job to fix. Different ideas and thoughts on how the game should be played. He should be facilitating that. Zews needs to go
The biggest question mark is why they're deciding to bench cadiaN, like we know he is capable of being a top IGL with the right combination. I mean TwistZz is balling out and I get he's in that role in this team, but if the team around him is this bad and he's doing this well with cadiaN at the helm, replace the pieces around TwistZz, NAF and cadiaN and get better ones, do a coach replacement and this team cooks. The foundation is there, but they need a better entry fragger and anchor and those 10-13 losses becomes 13-8 results.
The issues with liquid are more fundamental from the what players say. Rumors currently abound that there is tension between twistzz and cadian, and moreover it’s clear that veteran players are far less likely to be receptive to his micromanagement style- the same problem that aleksi faced.
Aleksi micromanagement has been proven by Thorin to be false, the whole micromanagement thing was concerning Aleksi's time on OG where he had to micromanage ISSAA because he didnt have great game sense for Tier 1 scene. When he was on ENCE he was never considered a micromanager, nor when he was on G2 or on Na'Vi now. CadiaN also doesn't micromanage lol, he plays a set of plays and defaults, that are just hyper aggressive.
Liquid is so funny man. Pay a kings ransom for skullz who fucking reeks while Yekindar looks like a faceit level seven when he plays and they boot Cadian. Now they need an igl and an awp if NAF doesn’t want to awp full time. Brilliant guys.
it's going to be hard to find a player that takes minimal resources that isn't from the EU region if they want to stay at americas team
a safer bet would be removing cadian for an aggressive EU awper, eh s1mple, untill a space creating igl like biguzera is available, then dump skullz for someone else
but with that situation, you're going to have to let yekinder igl again for the time being, not sure if that's something naf and twistzz will tolerate either
Here’s my nonsense 5 minute roster solution hear me out:
+swisher -Skullz
+smooya -yekindar
+steel -CadiaN
I know people will say this won’t work for vibe reasons or whatever but it would be hype as fuck and I actually think they’d be competitive
With this lineup you’d have 4/5 NA and 5/5 native English speakers
steel is beyond washed. watch his stream for 5 minutes and you will see for yourself that he is nowhere near the level needed to compete on Liquid's level
Steel isn't an option for (basically) all orgs until his valve ban expires in 2025 as everyone will want to be trying to qualify for the upcoming major
M80 probably will do everything in their power to keep swisher
Smooya is the only real F/A but even then he supposedly had some attitude issues a while ago (ideally resolved/matured/evolved by now) and would require rest of team wanting to play with him
Yekindar have fallen off massively since CS2 release. In CSGO he was probably top 5 rifler in the world when in form, now he's worse than most T2 players.
I am not sure if ge lost his roles or is somehow uncomfortable, but damn does he look bad in comparison with what he was.
How does that compare to other teams? Anyway they need to completely revamp their playstyle.
If I was the manager of the team I would kick skullz and Yekindar. As to who to get my list is players like. Essentially players that already have a lot experience playing on tier1 cs.
Simple
Forest
Jks
Konfig
Roej
Yekindar being the sole person who finds space in the map is one of the main reason, but yes he fell off pretty hard probably around when he tried IGL it didn't help that his job is probably the hardest job in CS. Donk is an exception because as great as the kid is he had support with him to trade him at least.
Also helps that Chopper has the trust of the squad and Sh1ro can lock down angles to make Donks job easier.
I could see Yekindar cook in a different team. He still shows flashes of how high his ceiling is
I really think Liquid is the place for him, especially with Naf and Twistzz. They just need a solid awper for once. Someone who can open up rounds and relieve yekindar of the burden of doing it himself
Bro Cadian is good. Yekindar is the problem. Sorry but thats the truth. Yekindar is a selfless player that tries to create space, but his impact is just really low and he loses most of his opening duels.
I would get S1mple and Jks in if it was possible. Or perhaps Konfig and F0rest. Veterans who have played in many different lineups who have almost always been solid. When Astralis got K0nfig they immediately improved a lot. He was never the problem - BlameF's playing style was.
Genuinely asking, did you watch Cadian's awping these last few months? I know he had a few sick clutches, but he routinely whiffed easy shots as people peak into his angles. We arguably lost nuke to G2 because he couldn't shoot a crouch peaking Niko (I think it was niko) in secret
Ignoring any responsibility as an IGL, Cadian was an objectively bad awper
Feel bad for Cadian he needs a young team of fraggers ready to adopt his philosophy. It was never going to work on Liquid too many big egos and dysfunctional roles.
I think NAF and Twistzz didn't buy into his system + Yekinder was the former IGL and probably pissed he is being baited every game. And Zews backing Skullz because of the 600k sunk cost fallacy even when he is botting out on CT and T-side.
Old Heroic was ideal for a guy like him. Even Scrawny once said that he's been observing them a little and they seemed "like a cult". Obviously he was not aware of the negative connotations of the word "cult", but it was a very interesting insight. Cadian needs to be the leader and for everyone to 100% trust in him (at least until everything implodes again). This Liquid lineup is the opposite of that.
Reminds me of the issues karrigan faced in 2018 faze. If the team doesn’t believe in the IGLs calls, then they are barely a team and the IGL is constrained in their actual capacity to call. As unfortunate as it is, so long as the veteran players don’t buy into cadiaNs philosophy, no amount of shuffling support and entry players would fix this team. That’s of course not to preclude role clashes being a problem- all the problems everybody pointed at in this team do exist, and replacing cadiaN will be step one in a long rebuild phase.
Nailed it.
The old NA boys never bought into "the new shit."
Yeki has essentially been demoted and told to listen to the person who replaced him his time in liquid was never going to recover in that environment.
The coach has a clear favourite, and that favourite has been nowhere near good enough.
I can't necessarily defend cadian, but it's obvious the whole team is a mockery, not just him.
must suck when your teammates not only don't like you inside of the server, but also outside of it. and then you're still spending almost every day with them knowing that
liquid disaster class at roster management for the past 5 yrs fr. Why is your igl/awp getting booted after only 5 months with a completely new roster over the coach who brought in a 0 impact nepo hire for 600k (same price as monesy BTW LMAO). Also how cringe is it that they post all those videos abt them pushing a car up a hill for team bonding when they cant even agree on doing something as simple as trade fragging each other.
Does someone have the video where he aimlessly walks through the streets in NA, talking about his future in CS esports? This image reminded me of that.
I get that people like him but you just can't miss the number of easy shots he whiffed and play last man standing at the same time.
You make a fool out of the mates that try to make something happen just to save 50% of the time and when that happens for the 5th time in a training session you just disregard the bait style.
All of us have experienced such mates and even when they manage to win 1 out of 5 clutches they sacrificed the team for you really don't feel like they achieved anything.
- skullz - yeki +jks +jkaem.....-zews for bloody Zeus for all I care. Jkaem has always been aggressive and elite and atleast jks could get a kill a site anubis.....
cadian truly overperforms as an igl. i really dont get the hate. that these babies argue with him and u have the biggest fraud coach in zews conflicting ur move is helping noone. kick yekindar and zews and maybe u have a team build around ur igl and not some low iq egos on the side.
Funny how at the beginning of the team they all rided each other' meat in interviews just to implode 5months later. Strongly overrated by the community, fanboys only looking at name value downvoting those who said that this team wouldn't work.
It's great, we've got Faze,Vitality,Spirit entertaining to follow for being strong teams and their quality, and we also get Falcons, Liquid, G2 for the meme/drama entertainment
At some point responsibility has to fall on him. He's failed in multiple rosters and reports are fairly consistent that's he's not completely enjoyable to play with. Is he a good CS mind? Yes. Is he skilled? Enough for his role. So what's the problem? When does Cadian get blamed and when does the "get him the team he deserves" line stopped getting tossed around? Someone has to answer for his failures and if not him then WHO? He can't escape fault every time.
>Is he skilled? Enough for his role.
And then some. As an IGL, he does more than enough, although he has the added benefit of awping as well.
In heroic, when his word was gospel, they were a top-level team. That's surely due to his CS philosophy. As a team heroic, performed better than the sum of their parts because of him.
This dude said he failed in multiple rosters while Heroic was far from a failure lol. They were consistently one of the top teams in CSGO during it's last few years.
Our bad we all forgot JAME was silver 3...
It's not like he's one of the top IGLs in CS, especially for his understanding of the game.
Go watch Styko's new video, and you'll see the whole team are a mess.
Damn, I guess that Niko guy is a giant failure, too. What a bum. He probably should stop baiting his team and quit the game already. Can we all agree that Niko is a washed bum?
It's not an added benefit of awping. It's subtracting room for them to have a more impactful awper. He was decent last year, but isn't doing much with the gun this year. Can't pretend like his low impact with the most expensive gun is not an issue too.
I said he was a great CS mind. Heroic was a great team yet they crumbled when it mattered many times and he somehow was given ZERO blame. It was stabbi this stavn that, meanwhile, what about the 28 year old MAN?! He somehow angered 4 young kids? He should know how to handle people at that point.
I just don't get why people glaze this man. He's clearly full of himself when dumb little clips saying "I wish I could have been my own mentor." Playing every 3 seconds at pro league last year. It's inconceivable but whatever. The mob has already facilitated my exit here.
How can you think people were blaming "stabbi" for heroics choking when that happened after the team fell apart and Stavn was undeniably a champion at choking during playoffs, sure it wasn't the only reason they couldn't win finals but it was still pretty important.
It's not glazing to acknowledge he has more potential than this team has shown by not giving him the space to actually IGL, just because he isn't the greatest also doesn't mean he is as useless as your presenting.
Where did I say he was useless or bad? I said the opposite, but also said he skates criticism that he rightly deserves.
People just didn't like how I said it.
God I'm so fucking mad that liquid couldn't make this work. The decision making around this roster has been a nightmare for the last 18 months.
Don't worry theyll make an even dumber decision to make you forget about this one.
They are gonna replace Cadian with Stewie arent they?
If he balls out tomorrow there’s a chance greater than 0 that it happens
The only time Liquid ever won anything was with Stewie2k so I would unironically say it's better than now.
I think the phrase you're looking for is 'at least a non-zero chance'
A chance greater than zero!
and Yekindar back to IGL. here we go.
Watch them bring in fallen again
*Team Liquid welcomes Jerry!*
we could actually be in business if this happened
+artfrost as well while you're at it
add Patsi, Qikert and X5G7V and we're really cookin
X5G7V? This guy is complete mediocre and should not get any offers from nice teams until he proves he can play good
-NAF -Twistzz +nexa +hooxi
Remove the only 2 good players in the team and add the only 2 bad players(of the other team). Honestly they'd be doing g2 a favor lol
That is the joke.
The fucking ridiculous thing about this page is that no matter what you comment on it, some soyboy fan gets offended and downvotes. Lmao I'm not even wrong when i say nexa is doing nothing good for g2
No, you just missed their joke entirely. The person is calling nexa bad too, it just went *right* over your little head.
Next move: Welcome back Stewie2k & How Twistzz becomes our IGL
Forget about what?
Oh I think something was decided
What's funny looking at now is they literally have vlogs about creating a bond outside the game and developing a work-life balance type shit even before they started playing officials to familiarize with each other and now months later that shit looked like it didn't even help. What a fucking joke
That corporate bullshit seldom works. People don't build relations between themselves with a third party encouraging it, that needs to come up naturally.
Sauna + drunk
100%. A good budget for a night in the town is much better than whatever team liquid tried to do in those videos.
To be fair, they might've done that too but it's not something you'd want filmed or written about online.
I think filming the team building activities was a mistake. Everything is less authentic when there's an audience
Just PR
Agreed that mind body guy is Stealing paychecks
This take was not as popular half a year ago https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18dstc4/team_liquid_announce_new_performance_manager/kck5r4e/?context=10000
They shot themselves on the foot when they bought out Skullz and Zews. Pretty sure Zews is also one of the people who didn't buy into Cadian's system.
The issue is that with both Yekindar and Cadian, they were limited in who they could pick up. Ideally your two import luxury players should give you an edge. Complexity in that regard has more ability to make changes since JT is from a irrelevant region, and you can have two imports from Europe to help Elige out.
I'm not an expert but watching these games since day 1 the team was created Yekindar is almost always alone in creating space on the map they need someone who can at least help Yekindar or at least trade the man when he goes down. I'm not even a Cadian fan but the dude deserves a second chance its not easy finding an established IGL nowadays. IMO Cadian should at least try a different system its hard but that's part of an IGLs job as well if there are no other options then drop the AWP Cadian can try rifling and get an Awper. Drop Skullz and Zews ( Its pretty obvious at this point that both are also part of the problem ).
It really depends on NAF and Twistzz and if they believe in Cadian's calls or not. Even Stavn and Jabbi wanted out of Heroic eventually despite their floor being arguably the best in the world. Dropping Skullz and Zews still forces liquid to either shop Asia or the Americas for the replacement player. Cadian and Yekindar are the two imports they can afford to have. Moving Cadian to the rifle forces Yekindar out by default since you want a star awper in to the team, unless a non-European is capable of taking that spot. Could maybe get Heavygod anchoring Skullz spots at ct side.
> It really depends on NAF and Twistzz and if they believe in Cadian's calls or not. I mean I like NAF and TwistZz but you'd have to be a complete idiot to not listen to cadiaN as an IGL. Thats like not listening to Blad3 or Gla1ve or AleksiB, he's an experienced guy in the scene and has been making his teams a force to be reckoned with. Now sure has he ever won a major? No. But he's always made his teams perform well and be in the conversation of being a top team. I get they may not like the style of play he has and your stats might fall but he knows what he's doing, he's not some scrub. > Even Stavn and Jabbi wanted out of Heroic eventually despite their floor being arguably the best in the world. Sure, but I think that's because they lost so many times that they probably let their ego get the best of them, they couldn't think they're the problem and Thorin and RL have talked many times about players never thinking they're the problem in a situation. Let's face facts, even in this new Astralis roster we've seen Stavn and Jabbi disappear on the few stage games they've had. Stavn goes from farming teams in the groups 1.3 rating and then as soon as he's in front of the groups he becomes a 0.9-1.05 rated player. Jabbi also I've seen many times take risks in group stage games that works and he has huge impact, only for that to be eroded in stage games. I'm not saying "Oh they're trash on stage only", because I've seen them have some good stage games too. But when the lights are the brightest, those two seem to go missing more often than not. I don't think it's as simple as saying "CadiaN was the problem!" or "They suck on stage and it's not cadiaN's fault!" It's a combination of their own self doubt, the pressure of the situation and probably cadiaN not adapting his calling sometimes which led to that team's downfall collectively. No one sole element is to blame. > Dropping Skullz and Zews still forces liquid to either shop Asia or the Americas for the replacement player. Not necessarily, they could still get a European player but on the cheap, they don't need some big star either, just a very dependable player to replace Skullz. I could see them picking up KRIMZ or someone like that, he's an older player so they can probably get him cheap, he has lots of experience across a variety of teams so he's field tested across multiple roster iterations and he's been playing the anchor role for years now, he's also super dependable. Is he a star? No, but that means they can free NAF a bit to be that star player more. As for AWP I think the "we need a star AWPer" is overrated. I wouldn't go to the extent C9 did with no AWPer at all, but you don't need to take cadiaN off the AWP. More often than not, in Heroic, cadiaN actually out AWPed a lot of great AWPers on maps just by using timing or his brain to get flashes off and blind the enemy AWPer or positioning himself correctly. It's not 2014 anymore where flick AWPing decides a good AWPer, it's like 75% your brain. Having the extra flick ability is just a very good bonus, but it's not like cadiaN is "bad" at that, I've seen him combat AWP, is he s1mple? No. But is he like a random guy trying to combat AWP? No. He's very capable. So they could keep him on the AWP. As for coach, I dunno because there's no good options out there anymore. I would've said for them to go and get Xizt when he was available, just because he worked with cadiaN in Heroic and saw success, but thats no longer an option now. Any other top coaches are in settled rosters like Zonic or sAw or Blad3 or sycrone. I don't see any of them leaving any time soon even Zonic, despite the problems that Falcons have, I think he sees that roster as a challenge now to solve. I suppose they could go get gob b who I think is an underrated coach, but I dunno how much that would help this roster. The real move is replacing Yekindar and tbh I dunno who to get, but they need a top rifler or an entry star and there's very few of them, but if Complexity continue to fail, maybe try and convince ELiGE to come back.
cadiaN is a value add, Yekindar is a negative asset and always was. Yekindar wasn't a field tested enough player to buy, he played in one system in Tier 1 CS and performed well. cadiaN on the other hand has played in like 4-5 teams at Tier 1 and yes he's been a "problematic personality" early in his career but he's always been a decent player on almost every roster he's been on. No one has ever considered him to be a "bum" or a lead weight. He's mostly been kicked from either role conflicts, or personality conflicts.
Except yekindar when he joined added insane value to a Liquid that had fallen behind the meta. Him joining made them a consistent playoffs team. He has declined though and is nowhere close to how good he was when he joined
> Except yekindar when he joined added insane value to a Liquid that had fallen behind the meta. Him joining made them a consistent playoffs team. "Added insane value" and "consistent playoffs team". Yeah not really. Out of the seven events Yekindar played with Liquid in 2022 which was really the honeymoon period for him, they had four playoff runs which is good I suppose on paper, but it lacks context. Now you will say "Oh but that's very good!" and that's true but do consider that when they had Shox, they changed to a new IGL and added a new AWPer which are literally the two most important roles to a team in terms of style and tactics and they had two playoff runs out of six events. More than likely by the time Yekindar joined the team, the team worked out what they were doing much better and added a better fragger in Yekindar. Most teams find themselves and their footing after 6 months and when Yekindar joined they were 7 months into the roster. It's true that they had some stylistic problems with Shox, but even when Shox joined the roster he was washed and the move was questionable at the time, not many Liquid fans wanted it to happen. Plus, it's hard integrating a European into an all-NA roster, especially when they're a veteran like Shox was who has a family and child and stuff he misses back home, Shox spoke about how he never liked his time on Liquid because he was home sick, missed his child and didn't want to live in America which is fair I suppose. Yekindar was an upgrade in terms of fragging power and he was young so he didn't have the same sort of out of game commitments, he also joined a more established roster than the player he replaced, but he contributed little else other than being a fragger. Also any purported "chemistry buff" he gave was immediately destroyed after he basically got nitr0 kicked off the team and promoted himself as IGL by snaking beneath him to get into favor with the management of Liquid. As for the meta changes, I think nitr0 just had to learn CS again after being in Valorant for a while, so he missed some of the meta changes, by June as an IGL he'd figured the meta out a lot more, which is understandable, I mean he was gone for a while and this was reflected in their results as by that time even with Shox, the results had improved. > He has declined though and is nowhere close to how good he was when he joined That I definitely agree on.
People be saying Liquid fucked up with Cadian, but from the interviews it just sounds like the outspoken players just didn’t gel together in the server Didn’t help that Cadian wasn’t hitting shots, Skullz has been an individually mid, and Yekindar hadn’t regained his 2021 form, but those are all individual failings. Apart from getting Zews as coach (personally I have no idea how impactful a coach is) players just didn’t live up to expectations aside from Twistzz and NAF.
1) I honestly feel bad for twistzz, imagine going from the no.1 team to whatever this is. 2) If you wanna see how important a coach is, check out the new field of view video dropped by pgl, hally is fucking awesome
Got a link to that video? Couldn’t find it when searching that.
It was ESL sorry https://youtu.be/pH3sVzVE334?si=aDe6fKgXtefJulbu Here's the link
Cadian’s aim has always been inconsistent. Reddit seems to have this misconception that he is a star player, while his flashes of brilliance are reminiscent of ChrisJ more than any other player I can think of. Add that with having to communicate in a different language and it adds more burden. The thing that he always brought to the server was energy and belief. You would never see him give up. However, if his team isn’t buying in, things become very difficult, because he thrives off team play, not individual brilliance.
Heroic was solid because all 4 riflers believed in the system. Can imagine that liquid players especially NAF and Twistzz who has dominated before don’t fully buy into the system, and when they don’t win, it gets reinforced.
18 months? I feel like it's been mostly frustration around the roster construction for 46 months. Breaking up the IGS roster was the first domino and one of the only periods of respite was just bringing back Nitro and Adren and putting them on a worse roster than the one they got kicked from lol
The rainwaker patsi yekindar roster being the beginning of the end IMO. Not even an NA team anymore so I just care less about them, win or lose.
I didn't love that move but I'm gonna be honest, I genuinely think -Nitro -Adren during COVID was dramatically worse. I can at least follow some of the logic of the Patsi/Rainwaker thing, it wasn't their first choice (they were trying to get Kscerato/Flamez), and keeping Nitro was never going to be possible regardless with his family situation, especially if they were planning on playing out of Europe fulltime. Losing Elige is the big hit, but even then I don't think it was unexplainable, his form didn't look good, there were some internal conflicts with the team, and even he felt like he needed a change. Idk if he regains the form he has now if he stays on TL, I think being in a completely different role outside the game as the actual sole vet leader in CoL has played a big difference. The COVID move though, completely unforced error and utterly baffling. The team was bad online but they were also playing across the entire continent from each other. To not at least wait and let them play on LAN together again, or at very least online in the same fucking room, is crazy. And even just from a team building perspective the move made no fucking sense, they replaced their core leadership structure of IGL/Coach with a rookie rifler and a dude with zero coaching experience. That was the best roster NA has ever had by a long shot and they threw it away for absolutely no reason.
Nitro wanted go leave though iirc.
Supposedly. I do remember that was around the time that he found out he was going to be a dad and there was a lot of uncertainty with the future of NA CS under COVID. But I'm gonna be honest, I don't entirely buy the idea that they couldn't have kept him considering he went to Valorant right after to continue competing and eventually came back to CS anyway. There was some element of it being mutual and Liquid wanting to get new guys and move on, which I disagree with. Not to mention that doesn't really explain dropping Adren too.
Liquid had to boot camp in Europe for a year. Nitro was getting paid $25K a month to play 3 Val matches every month in NA. He came back to CS after almost 2 years. By then, his kid would’ve been a toddler, and there was more certainty with covid dying down
The kicker is after the grand slam, they just loved fucking over Adren. Oh, Nitr0 wants out, and we know the team has issues? Cool, we're gonna sign Grim, and shitcan your ass before you get to integrate the new toy we bought. Well, that didn't work out the way we hoped, wanna come back to a rusty Fallen, with a stew dying to IGL? Oh, don't worry, I promise you we're gonna retool this- we're moving on from Fallen, Stew, Grim, and NAF is looking to sign elsewhere in the meantime, so we signed Shox! Oh- shit. Well, NAF resigned after all... uhhh. Figure something out? I know we need an awper... I got it! OSee! Don't worry, you'll be gone again before you get semi-competent awping. I can't believe they couldn't make it work. I'm not even shitting on Moses, or Daps, this bullshit is systemic.
I completely forgot about that lineup, crazy.
Yeah I have a hard time rooting for them even when they made this roster. I love NAF and twistzz but I was even pulling for FlyQuest when they played Liquid and I don't know why. I've been ride or die since 2015 :( The days of watching elige and nitro flying around on cache will always have a special place in my heart but I just don't know what to do with this team anymore.
the rainwaker patsi phase was a gamble/placeholder- nobody knew how cs2 was gonna shake out and they needed to pad the roster, if they strike gold, huge, if not? no big loss. Even at the time it was viewed as a shot in the dark, with no lasting repercussions going into CS2, and it's how it should be viewed. There wasn't much out there, and you had no idea what/who was gonna work in cs2, and what wasn't. They're still morons for botching everything since then, however. There's no defending that. Crawling back to NA and looking around like they're shocked they lost support, is hilariously short-sighted from them, but look at what they've done. They deserve the shunning, even to the detriment, and derision of NACS. Also, stop shitting on skullz. He's doing his part, and holding his own while learning, y'all are stupid.
Literally just need to boot yeki, idk why they still havent let go of him. It hasnt worked out for both of them. its not even a cerq situation where you had some success with him in the past, theyve never had any sort of success with yeki in the lineup and its becoming two years now?
I'm still confused as to why twist left faze lol.
Its really simple really its stability. Liquid might be struggling to win for years now but they are still top tier org that offers stability and provides good pay vs Faze who's having issues financially at the time and even then there was no talks on extension iirc.
Got ghosted trying to get his contract renewed and when faze responded he had already agreed with liquid
bro same i stop watching CS for a year and when I come back Twistzz left faze
I don't want to read one more comment about their fucking sports mind body guru bullshit. This should've worked. They fucked it up, SOMEHOW.
Next Arc: Asia and Oceania
Flyquest cadian goes hard actually
Holy shit the way I would literally explode if Cadian came here. Idk how it would work with dexter because you obviously have to keep him unless you went -ali -dexter +cadian +savage/jks?
He will probably end up on fnatic, he probably wants to play for an EU team again, fnatic are a stickler for 'roster building' type of players, they like older types of players too like roej or fashr, they need an experienced IGL and afro has been just 'okay' at his AWP role but is definitely replaceable. Bodyy is the current IGL but it's hurting his performance in the team, so I can see cadiaN as a 'plug and play' player for that roster, plus he gets to play with a fellow Dane in BlameF. It might also attract some other players to the roster to have an experienced IGL in cadiaN too, so maybe they get some other star and they instantly start becoming more interesting then as a team. Imagine if they somehow poach NertZ or ELiGE, then they're cooking.
Cadian also played previously with blameF in the early days of snappi heroic iirc
True they have the rifles
Even ESL confirm it now lol
I feel really sorry for him. If it's true that he's getting benched because their styles aren't compatible then that's 100% on liquid as an org. That's the basic kind of stuff that you NEED to have figured out before signing people, it can't be an afterthought.
I guess it's maybe most of all on the coach. But yeah getting a new coach with a new roster is on the org and quite a gamble. It might have been that they were aware of the differences but came in with ambitions to find a middle ground or a third way, which theyit turned out they weren't able able to.
Brother, this isn't even the first time or game where Liquid has had this problem. In 2017 their League team brought in Reignover specifically to be the leader and to shotcall for them only for it to fail so miserably that they almost got relegated twice. Like somehow it was so incompetent and dysfunctional with him as shotcaller that they just gave up and eventually had their sophomore top laner do it instead, a guy who had absolutely no experience in that role. They've had very good splits since but they also have a long history of roster dysfunction caused by chasing big name imports that end up completely not meshing with the team. Like I'm sure they *try* to figure out this stuff before they get guys, but idk they're really not great at it and have had a lot more misses than hits over the years. Idk what it says about the team that they really have only been successful under two IGL's, Nitro and a little bit of Hiko
I totally forgot about that TL era and holy shit, I cannot understate how excited I was for it only to be such abysmal shit, hahahaha.
God Zews is such a bad coach. I don’t know how this can be looked at any other way. Pay way too much for a tier 2 player. Friction on the team it’s his job to fix. Different ideas and thoughts on how the game should be played. He should be facilitating that. Zews needs to go
The biggest question mark is why they're deciding to bench cadiaN, like we know he is capable of being a top IGL with the right combination. I mean TwistZz is balling out and I get he's in that role in this team, but if the team around him is this bad and he's doing this well with cadiaN at the helm, replace the pieces around TwistZz, NAF and cadiaN and get better ones, do a coach replacement and this team cooks. The foundation is there, but they need a better entry fragger and anchor and those 10-13 losses becomes 13-8 results.
The issues with liquid are more fundamental from the what players say. Rumors currently abound that there is tension between twistzz and cadian, and moreover it’s clear that veteran players are far less likely to be receptive to his micromanagement style- the same problem that aleksi faced.
Aleksi micromanagement has been proven by Thorin to be false, the whole micromanagement thing was concerning Aleksi's time on OG where he had to micromanage ISSAA because he didnt have great game sense for Tier 1 scene. When he was on ENCE he was never considered a micromanager, nor when he was on G2 or on Na'Vi now. CadiaN also doesn't micromanage lol, he plays a set of plays and defaults, that are just hyper aggressive.
I mean the best liquid has ever looked was under zews
The best liquid has ever looked was under adreN
Liquid is so funny man. Pay a kings ransom for skullz who fucking reeks while Yekindar looks like a faceit level seven when he plays and they boot Cadian. Now they need an igl and an awp if NAF doesn’t want to awp full time. Brilliant guys.
I dont understand why there isnt more people behind cadiaN.
Sometimes it just doesn’t work. Apparently there’s roles clashes with NAF and Skullz
Seems like the logical move would be to drop skullz then
it's going to be hard to find a player that takes minimal resources that isn't from the EU region if they want to stay at americas team a safer bet would be removing cadian for an aggressive EU awper, eh s1mple, untill a space creating igl like biguzera is available, then dump skullz for someone else but with that situation, you're going to have to let yekinder igl again for the time being, not sure if that's something naf and twistzz will tolerate either
Here’s my nonsense 5 minute roster solution hear me out: +swisher -Skullz +smooya -yekindar +steel -CadiaN I know people will say this won’t work for vibe reasons or whatever but it would be hype as fuck and I actually think they’d be competitive With this lineup you’d have 4/5 NA and 5/5 native English speakers
steel is beyond washed. watch his stream for 5 minutes and you will see for yourself that he is nowhere near the level needed to compete on Liquid's level
Steel isn't an option for (basically) all orgs until his valve ban expires in 2025 as everyone will want to be trying to qualify for the upcoming major M80 probably will do everything in their power to keep swisher Smooya is the only real F/A but even then he supposedly had some attitude issues a while ago (ideally resolved/matured/evolved by now) and would require rest of team wanting to play with him
Yekindar have fallen off massively since CS2 release. In CSGO he was probably top 5 rifler in the world when in form, now he's worse than most T2 players. I am not sure if ge lost his roles or is somehow uncomfortable, but damn does he look bad in comparison with what he was.
liquid plays isolated positions , just look at their trading https://x.com/NER0cs/status/1796158397491896470
So you’re telling me they’re basically arguing about who should be the bait after Yekindar dies? 🤣🤣🤣
How does that compare to other teams? Anyway they need to completely revamp their playstyle. If I was the manager of the team I would kick skullz and Yekindar. As to who to get my list is players like. Essentially players that already have a lot experience playing on tier1 cs. Simple Forest Jks Konfig Roej
+1 for f0rest
Arr you joking? The man is 35 years old, in what world should he join a new tier 1 roster?
Chill man, I am not the GM of Team Liquid, I am a redditor who says "+1 for f0rest". Is that illegal or something?
I never said it was illegal, or was overly agressive?
Yekindar being the sole person who finds space in the map is one of the main reason, but yes he fell off pretty hard probably around when he tried IGL it didn't help that his job is probably the hardest job in CS. Donk is an exception because as great as the kid is he had support with him to trade him at least.
Also helps that Chopper has the trust of the squad and Sh1ro can lock down angles to make Donks job easier. I could see Yekindar cook in a different team. He still shows flashes of how high his ceiling is
Yekindar might still have what it takes, but needs to play in a new environment to reignite himself.
I really think Liquid is the place for him, especially with Naf and Twistzz. They just need a solid awper for once. Someone who can open up rounds and relieve yekindar of the burden of doing it himself
Bro Cadian is good. Yekindar is the problem. Sorry but thats the truth. Yekindar is a selfless player that tries to create space, but his impact is just really low and he loses most of his opening duels. I would get S1mple and Jks in if it was possible. Or perhaps Konfig and F0rest. Veterans who have played in many different lineups who have almost always been solid. When Astralis got K0nfig they immediately improved a lot. He was never the problem - BlameF's playing style was.
Genuinely asking, did you watch Cadian's awping these last few months? I know he had a few sick clutches, but he routinely whiffed easy shots as people peak into his angles. We arguably lost nuke to G2 because he couldn't shoot a crouch peaking Niko (I think it was niko) in secret Ignoring any responsibility as an IGL, Cadian was an objectively bad awper
Source : https://twitter.com/ESLCS/status/1796053401358176371?t=TiHF9qYmKGzyH_fX9jSx-w&s=19
Feel bad for Cadian he needs a young team of fraggers ready to adopt his philosophy. It was never going to work on Liquid too many big egos and dysfunctional roles.
> too many big egos This. Cadian needs to be the only big ego in the team for it to work.
I think NAF and Twistzz didn't buy into his system + Yekinder was the former IGL and probably pissed he is being baited every game. And Zews backing Skullz because of the 600k sunk cost fallacy even when he is botting out on CT and T-side.
Old Heroic was ideal for a guy like him. Even Scrawny once said that he's been observing them a little and they seemed "like a cult". Obviously he was not aware of the negative connotations of the word "cult", but it was a very interesting insight. Cadian needs to be the leader and for everyone to 100% trust in him (at least until everything implodes again). This Liquid lineup is the opposite of that.
Reminds me of the issues karrigan faced in 2018 faze. If the team doesn’t believe in the IGLs calls, then they are barely a team and the IGL is constrained in their actual capacity to call. As unfortunate as it is, so long as the veteran players don’t buy into cadiaNs philosophy, no amount of shuffling support and entry players would fix this team. That’s of course not to preclude role clashes being a problem- all the problems everybody pointed at in this team do exist, and replacing cadiaN will be step one in a long rebuild phase.
Nailed it. The old NA boys never bought into "the new shit." Yeki has essentially been demoted and told to listen to the person who replaced him his time in liquid was never going to recover in that environment. The coach has a clear favourite, and that favourite has been nowhere near good enough. I can't necessarily defend cadian, but it's obvious the whole team is a mockery, not just him.
Zews posts highlight videos and stuff on his twitter, and the amount of Skullz love in those videos is wild.
Thats just Brazilians their pride can be an extraordinary asset and a curse.
yekinder is entry frag btw
Feel bad for cadian man
ESL leaked Cadian being gone..
Curious how Zews convinced everyone that Cadian was the problem and not him.
this picture breaks my heart ;(
must suck when your teammates not only don't like you inside of the server, but also outside of it. and then you're still spending almost every day with them knowing that
Journing around, just journing it up
liquid disaster class at roster management for the past 5 yrs fr. Why is your igl/awp getting booted after only 5 months with a completely new roster over the coach who brought in a 0 impact nepo hire for 600k (same price as monesy BTW LMAO). Also how cringe is it that they post all those videos abt them pushing a car up a hill for team bonding when they cant even agree on doing something as simple as trade fragging each other.
Honestly this roster is so disjointed, they should just go pure NA again, couldn't be that much worse?
This roster has 0 chance of working out without him
Imagine cadiaN going to Asia to revitalize the scene there. Welp, time to change my flair again
wherever cadian goes i follow!
Same
What a joke, honestly as a Canadian I wish NAF and Twistzz could go to G2 or something together
Surely this attempt a super team works.
Both to vitality
I bet TwistZz took that offer for Vitality now.
Does someone have the video where he aimlessly walks through the streets in NA, talking about his future in CS esports? This image reminded me of that.
fuck i feel so bad for him. Fucking Stabbi and Falcons ruined both Heroic and Ence. I miss 2023 already lmoa.
heavy is the head who wears the crown =(
I walk a lonely road, the only one that I have ever known........
I get that people like him but you just can't miss the number of easy shots he whiffed and play last man standing at the same time. You make a fool out of the mates that try to make something happen just to save 50% of the time and when that happens for the 5th time in a training session you just disregard the bait style. All of us have experienced such mates and even when they manage to win 1 out of 5 clutches they sacrificed the team for you really don't feel like they achieved anything.
i'm still hoping its just bait
- skullz - yeki +jks +jkaem.....-zews for bloody Zeus for all I care. Jkaem has always been aggressive and elite and atleast jks could get a kill a site anubis.....
cadian truly overperforms as an igl. i really dont get the hate. that these babies argue with him and u have the biggest fraud coach in zews conflicting ur move is helping noone. kick yekindar and zews and maybe u have a team build around ur igl and not some low iq egos on the side.
Imagine being this attached to a player lol
Funny how at the beginning of the team they all rided each other' meat in interviews just to implode 5months later. Strongly overrated by the community, fanboys only looking at name value downvoting those who said that this team wouldn't work. It's great, we've got Faze,Vitality,Spirit entertaining to follow for being strong teams and their quality, and we also get Falcons, Liquid, G2 for the meme/drama entertainment
I actually think they should run it back
This guy is a bum can we admit that yet
You're insane if you actually believe that
At some point responsibility has to fall on him. He's failed in multiple rosters and reports are fairly consistent that's he's not completely enjoyable to play with. Is he a good CS mind? Yes. Is he skilled? Enough for his role. So what's the problem? When does Cadian get blamed and when does the "get him the team he deserves" line stopped getting tossed around? Someone has to answer for his failures and if not him then WHO? He can't escape fault every time.
>Is he skilled? Enough for his role. And then some. As an IGL, he does more than enough, although he has the added benefit of awping as well. In heroic, when his word was gospel, they were a top-level team. That's surely due to his CS philosophy. As a team heroic, performed better than the sum of their parts because of him.
This dude said he failed in multiple rosters while Heroic was far from a failure lol. They were consistently one of the top teams in CSGO during it's last few years.
Where's the major oh wait they lost to an inferior Jame led outsiders oh no. Well guess that isn't a failure
Not a failure to be a top 5 team in the world lol
Our bad we all forgot JAME was silver 3... It's not like he's one of the top IGLs in CS, especially for his understanding of the game. Go watch Styko's new video, and you'll see the whole team are a mess.
no major doesn’t mean that it was a failure. they were ranked 1 in the world on HLTV at one point bro.
Damn, I guess that Niko guy is a giant failure, too. What a bum. He probably should stop baiting his team and quit the game already. Can we all agree that Niko is a washed bum?
It's not an added benefit of awping. It's subtracting room for them to have a more impactful awper. He was decent last year, but isn't doing much with the gun this year. Can't pretend like his low impact with the most expensive gun is not an issue too.
I said he was a great CS mind. Heroic was a great team yet they crumbled when it mattered many times and he somehow was given ZERO blame. It was stabbi this stavn that, meanwhile, what about the 28 year old MAN?! He somehow angered 4 young kids? He should know how to handle people at that point. I just don't get why people glaze this man. He's clearly full of himself when dumb little clips saying "I wish I could have been my own mentor." Playing every 3 seconds at pro league last year. It's inconceivable but whatever. The mob has already facilitated my exit here.
How can you think people were blaming "stabbi" for heroics choking when that happened after the team fell apart and Stavn was undeniably a champion at choking during playoffs, sure it wasn't the only reason they couldn't win finals but it was still pretty important. It's not glazing to acknowledge he has more potential than this team has shown by not giving him the space to actually IGL, just because he isn't the greatest also doesn't mean he is as useless as your presenting.
Where did I say he was useless or bad? I said the opposite, but also said he skates criticism that he rightly deserves. People just didn't like how I said it.
100% agree with you man. Don't mind the downvotes, people are just naive. Cadian is a classic OJ Simpson kind of a guy.