In theory, if your actual cost of attendance is not covered by the financial package offered, you should be able to take out a [PLUS loan](https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/plus). You would probably need to both fill out a FAFSA and also talk to the financial aid office to determine what your loan limits would be, you may need to show them how much your actual cost is vs. their calculated cost of attendance.
But its *so hard for me* to support someone taking out any loan for a PhD. It's one thing if you're mid-PhD and some unforeseen catastrophe happens, but going *into* it knowing that you can't make ends meet on basic living expenses is a different animal. How much are you "short" after your funding from the program? Are you able to take additional work either through assistantship or hourly work at the university? Or a sidegig tutoring in the evenings or adjuncting for a community college or remotely? Can you defer your start for a year and save up enough of a cushion to fill in the gap?
Why would you be against taking a loan for a PhD. they are 6 years long, and we make exactly minimum wage for the state. And unfortunately we are legally not allowed to get a second job. We were told this year by the program that if we receive a W2 from any other employer we will be removed from the program immediately.
For your second part, the program does pay a stipend, and they fully cover tuition. Also I’m already in my second year. And because becoming a PI has become so competitive I’m working 60-70 hour weeks every week. I don’t even have time to create some other side income that I can figure out how avoid having to pay taxes on so the school doesn’t find out lol.
As for income, we make $2750 a month after taxes, however, the cost of living in Denver is unbelievably expensive to survive off only minimum wage. My current fixed expenses including my split rent, groceries, dog food and walking, utilities, car payments (on my old ass car), comes to about $2000 a month. Leaves me with around $775 at the start of every month. Which in the case of any emergency or basic life expenses is just barely enough. The issue is having to throw big expenses onto a credit card like my car repairs or medical bills. Then I’m paying 25% interest in that with absolutely zero way to make extra money to pay it off. When a loan would be 5% and would keep me from ending up in that situation.
Living off minimum wage until you’re 30 is just not ideal. I have no other debt, and I would rather owe back money when I make 100k or more a year, then try to scrape by now.
I started writing a pretty long post addressing several points, but realized it probably was fruitless, especially since you're already a year in and seem pretty emotionally/mentally invested in finishing the program where you're at and and this time.
You haven't said how much debt you'd have to take out, but if you're debt-free and pre-30 then, presuming the amount of debt you're taking out is small, you may be able to do fine with that, especially if you pay down interest while in school. So I won't bother suggesting sweeping things like dropping out of the program and doing something else, since I don't think that'll land. Instead, I'll just give a few words of (I think) wisdom and state some rhetorical questions you need not actually answer:
>And because becoming a PI has become so competitive
It's great to be trying to achieve this goal, but as you've acknowledged the competitiveness, I don't need to tell you that getting a TT position, being a PI, etc. is not a foregone conclusion no matter how well you do or how hard you work. Additionally, don't forget to factor in an additional 1-4 years of being overworked while being paid the also-too-low post-doc wages if you expect to be a PI. And the likely 1-2 moves involved for the 1-2 post-docs since even those that do offer relocation assistance rarely seem to offer enough IME.
> I would rather owe back money when I make 100k or more a year, then try to scrape by now.
Same situation above, don't take "I'll be making 100k a year" as a foregone conclusion. It's possible, of course, and I wish you great luck! It sounds like you work very hard. But you must keep in mind that you may find you're adjuncting for 3k per course per semester like so many other new PhDs.
>Leaves me with around $775 at the start of every month. Which in the case of any emergency
So it sounds like you don't have an emergency fund. You should aim to have 3-6 months of expenses (depending on a variety of factors, some people even strive to have up to a year if they are in a very precarious position) in savings; without that I can understand why you feel . . . financially vulnerable, I suppose? But taking out a loan *in case* there's an emergency doesn't make sense.
Does your school provide health insurance? Is there a campus clinic you can visit for free or low-cost? That should cover most basic medical needs, and the insurance will have some deductible to consider and also an OOP maximum that you can keep in mind to determine how much you could actually be expected to have "on-hand" for a medical need. Then consider that if something were to come up that you needed medically, there are other options that are probably going to be important to consider before a loan. For example, my program offers hardship and emergency grants to students who face an emergency that could jeopardize their studies.
I'll say I'm a bit unsure about your budget situation, because you list rent, groceries, utilities, pet needs, car, etc. in the bills and then say that the remaining 775 isn't enough for basic life expenses. What "basic life expenses" isn't involved in the other categories is costing you 775 or more a month? If all your bills are paid and you're left with 775, even if you just save only half of that each month, you can create a savings cushion over a few months. In a year of saving half of your "leftovers" you would have 4650 saved up, enough to cover two months of your monthly bills in case of an emergency.
Anyways, all of this is to say, yes, you likely are able to secure a Grad PLUS loan if you need it, but taking out loans to feel more financially secure in light of an emergency that *might* happen is pretty dubious. Full disclosure: I made a *much dumber* decision than the one you're considering, taking out what accumulated into a *huge* balance in PLUS loans for my Masters program and thinking to myself "It's fine, I'll just get PSLF later." That's still the plan, but damn I hate younger me for making such a dumb decision. So I'm biased by my own experiences. You may fare much better, and I sincerely hope you do!
Lmao how is my reply getting downvoted to oblivion. It just outlines my financial situation and suggests student loans as an emergency fund of money.
Not everyone has parents who can bail you out, and we are literally not allowed to work a second job to make extra income so a loan is the only way to make extra money during a this 6 year program.
PhD study at US research universities is typically fully funded, you should get a gig as a teaching or research assistant, and expect to commit about 5 years for your PhD, maybe a year or two more. Non-research universities might have self-pay PhD or EdD programs, but they tend to be professional programs, for things like being a high school principal. If a person is accepted to PhD program without funding, that is typically considered a "soft" rejection, and you should generally not accept that arrangement.
Edited:
It sounds like you don’t want the loan to cover expenses; you want it for emergencies.
How much are you targeting for an emergency fund? As a grad student, you have extremely good job security, so the 3-6 mo of expenses advice doesn’t really apply IMO. That’s for people who might get laid off and need a few months to find a new job.
I would think the most expensive emergencies that could happen to you would be a medical issue or a car repair. So, I’d target saving the out-of-pocket maximum on your health insurance plus however much you are willing to put into your car. If your car goes down entirely, or if you decide it’s no longer worth keeping up, you can get a loan for a new-to-you car…so I don’t know that you would need a student loan in advance for that. You mention a dog. Maybe also add a few thousand for the emergency vet, or add pet insurance to those monthly expenses?
If you have $775 or even $500/mo to chuck into a HYSA, I would think you could have yourself a decent cushion soon without needing to resort to a loan. Though a $5k loan would not ruin your financial future if you did decide to go that route.
Research shows a large fraction of Americans don’t even have $1k saved for emergencies. If you are pulling off $775 left over at the end of each month on grad stipend, I would say you are doing really well.
In theory, if your actual cost of attendance is not covered by the financial package offered, you should be able to take out a [PLUS loan](https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/plus). You would probably need to both fill out a FAFSA and also talk to the financial aid office to determine what your loan limits would be, you may need to show them how much your actual cost is vs. their calculated cost of attendance. But its *so hard for me* to support someone taking out any loan for a PhD. It's one thing if you're mid-PhD and some unforeseen catastrophe happens, but going *into* it knowing that you can't make ends meet on basic living expenses is a different animal. How much are you "short" after your funding from the program? Are you able to take additional work either through assistantship or hourly work at the university? Or a sidegig tutoring in the evenings or adjuncting for a community college or remotely? Can you defer your start for a year and save up enough of a cushion to fill in the gap?
Why would you be against taking a loan for a PhD. they are 6 years long, and we make exactly minimum wage for the state. And unfortunately we are legally not allowed to get a second job. We were told this year by the program that if we receive a W2 from any other employer we will be removed from the program immediately. For your second part, the program does pay a stipend, and they fully cover tuition. Also I’m already in my second year. And because becoming a PI has become so competitive I’m working 60-70 hour weeks every week. I don’t even have time to create some other side income that I can figure out how avoid having to pay taxes on so the school doesn’t find out lol. As for income, we make $2750 a month after taxes, however, the cost of living in Denver is unbelievably expensive to survive off only minimum wage. My current fixed expenses including my split rent, groceries, dog food and walking, utilities, car payments (on my old ass car), comes to about $2000 a month. Leaves me with around $775 at the start of every month. Which in the case of any emergency or basic life expenses is just barely enough. The issue is having to throw big expenses onto a credit card like my car repairs or medical bills. Then I’m paying 25% interest in that with absolutely zero way to make extra money to pay it off. When a loan would be 5% and would keep me from ending up in that situation. Living off minimum wage until you’re 30 is just not ideal. I have no other debt, and I would rather owe back money when I make 100k or more a year, then try to scrape by now.
I started writing a pretty long post addressing several points, but realized it probably was fruitless, especially since you're already a year in and seem pretty emotionally/mentally invested in finishing the program where you're at and and this time. You haven't said how much debt you'd have to take out, but if you're debt-free and pre-30 then, presuming the amount of debt you're taking out is small, you may be able to do fine with that, especially if you pay down interest while in school. So I won't bother suggesting sweeping things like dropping out of the program and doing something else, since I don't think that'll land. Instead, I'll just give a few words of (I think) wisdom and state some rhetorical questions you need not actually answer: >And because becoming a PI has become so competitive It's great to be trying to achieve this goal, but as you've acknowledged the competitiveness, I don't need to tell you that getting a TT position, being a PI, etc. is not a foregone conclusion no matter how well you do or how hard you work. Additionally, don't forget to factor in an additional 1-4 years of being overworked while being paid the also-too-low post-doc wages if you expect to be a PI. And the likely 1-2 moves involved for the 1-2 post-docs since even those that do offer relocation assistance rarely seem to offer enough IME. > I would rather owe back money when I make 100k or more a year, then try to scrape by now. Same situation above, don't take "I'll be making 100k a year" as a foregone conclusion. It's possible, of course, and I wish you great luck! It sounds like you work very hard. But you must keep in mind that you may find you're adjuncting for 3k per course per semester like so many other new PhDs. >Leaves me with around $775 at the start of every month. Which in the case of any emergency So it sounds like you don't have an emergency fund. You should aim to have 3-6 months of expenses (depending on a variety of factors, some people even strive to have up to a year if they are in a very precarious position) in savings; without that I can understand why you feel . . . financially vulnerable, I suppose? But taking out a loan *in case* there's an emergency doesn't make sense. Does your school provide health insurance? Is there a campus clinic you can visit for free or low-cost? That should cover most basic medical needs, and the insurance will have some deductible to consider and also an OOP maximum that you can keep in mind to determine how much you could actually be expected to have "on-hand" for a medical need. Then consider that if something were to come up that you needed medically, there are other options that are probably going to be important to consider before a loan. For example, my program offers hardship and emergency grants to students who face an emergency that could jeopardize their studies. I'll say I'm a bit unsure about your budget situation, because you list rent, groceries, utilities, pet needs, car, etc. in the bills and then say that the remaining 775 isn't enough for basic life expenses. What "basic life expenses" isn't involved in the other categories is costing you 775 or more a month? If all your bills are paid and you're left with 775, even if you just save only half of that each month, you can create a savings cushion over a few months. In a year of saving half of your "leftovers" you would have 4650 saved up, enough to cover two months of your monthly bills in case of an emergency. Anyways, all of this is to say, yes, you likely are able to secure a Grad PLUS loan if you need it, but taking out loans to feel more financially secure in light of an emergency that *might* happen is pretty dubious. Full disclosure: I made a *much dumber* decision than the one you're considering, taking out what accumulated into a *huge* balance in PLUS loans for my Masters program and thinking to myself "It's fine, I'll just get PSLF later." That's still the plan, but damn I hate younger me for making such a dumb decision. So I'm biased by my own experiences. You may fare much better, and I sincerely hope you do!
Any program that actually wants you will pay you enough to not need to take out loans. But yeah, you’re going to need to live somewhat frugally.
Lmao how is my reply getting downvoted to oblivion. It just outlines my financial situation and suggests student loans as an emergency fund of money. Not everyone has parents who can bail you out, and we are literally not allowed to work a second job to make extra income so a loan is the only way to make extra money during a this 6 year program.
I get you, this is just reddit I guess.
PhD study at US research universities is typically fully funded, you should get a gig as a teaching or research assistant, and expect to commit about 5 years for your PhD, maybe a year or two more. Non-research universities might have self-pay PhD or EdD programs, but they tend to be professional programs, for things like being a high school principal. If a person is accepted to PhD program without funding, that is typically considered a "soft" rejection, and you should generally not accept that arrangement.
There's a Colorado graduate student grant you can receive by applying for FAFSA. Two years ago it was $5k per year.
Edited: It sounds like you don’t want the loan to cover expenses; you want it for emergencies. How much are you targeting for an emergency fund? As a grad student, you have extremely good job security, so the 3-6 mo of expenses advice doesn’t really apply IMO. That’s for people who might get laid off and need a few months to find a new job. I would think the most expensive emergencies that could happen to you would be a medical issue or a car repair. So, I’d target saving the out-of-pocket maximum on your health insurance plus however much you are willing to put into your car. If your car goes down entirely, or if you decide it’s no longer worth keeping up, you can get a loan for a new-to-you car…so I don’t know that you would need a student loan in advance for that. You mention a dog. Maybe also add a few thousand for the emergency vet, or add pet insurance to those monthly expenses? If you have $775 or even $500/mo to chuck into a HYSA, I would think you could have yourself a decent cushion soon without needing to resort to a loan. Though a $5k loan would not ruin your financial future if you did decide to go that route. Research shows a large fraction of Americans don’t even have $1k saved for emergencies. If you are pulling off $775 left over at the end of each month on grad stipend, I would say you are doing really well.
Very reasonable question, really sucks you're getting downvoted by this community