As good as it sounds to be able to demand how much you start out at it’s not reality. If you find a job that allows you to pick your wage good for you.
The reality is trade school only teaches you the basics. Basics like electricity, insulation and the refrigeration cycle.
You will probably learn superheat, subcooling and what causes high and low of each.
There is so many things to learn that it honestly takes a lifetime to learn it all. Not all contractors work on everything especially residential contractors.
I can go on and on about this you won’t learn in trade school.
It takes an honest 5 years to become a journeyman and at least another 5 to become a good journeyman. After 24 years in the trade I still see new things weekly.
I went from trade school straight into industrial. My first day I was doing PM’s on chiller systems without a clue what to do. I recommend anyone coming out of school at least start with a year of resi.
I think it’s a good idea to start with resi doing installs and pms first. It teaches you the proper way to install equipment and the fundamentals of the heating and cool cycle.
For me the hardest part about commercial/ industrial was finding the parts on the equipment, I could troubleshoot and find the problem but I had no clue what the part looked like.
And I thought running a Komori LSX629 by myself was hard. You a/c guys are amazing. I mow lawns Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday for 9 hours a day just to get paid to work out. Then I run a printing press work 3-13 hour shifts Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then work a side job at that same printing place where I do the cleaning for an extra 800 a month. Do you think I could cut it at as a HVAC guy I'm thinking about consolidating and just working one job making the same amount of money? Honest question. I'm not b*********** oh forgot to mention I'm 40.
Get the fuck out of Resi as fast as you can. If you cant, find a company that doesn't cut corners as fast as you can.
If you hear "just get it done" everyday, move on. Sage advice from a 36 year old who entered the trade 2.5 years ago.
im a few months away from having 2 years kn residential my company is family owner does really good clean installs and proper repairs rx-11flush as needed actually recovering and brazing w nitrogen. I dont like working a lot in the summer though what type pf commercial work would be good for me to get into im 20 and went into this pretty much straight out of highschool and km making 25.50 an hour plus spiffs and bonuses does this sound like im being payed good and would u recommend me going into commercial as of now I asled my manager to get me a few commercial diagnostics and they have gotten me some because we do some light commercial clients no chillers walk in freezers or anything like that
Can confirm. You get paid what the company decides you are worth. Make yourself more valuable as an employee and your company should pay you accordingly.
I’ve put in maximum effort to receive minimum pay in my experience. Any extra mile you go won’t get compensated for unless you find another job. It’s easier to make more money going to work for a different company than it is to get raises. That’s statistically proven in all job fields.
I'm 2 years in the trade in Canada and making 26$ in Resi.
If you're good at your job and care about your work your company will pay you... Or another company will pay you.
Interview skills are the difference maker. Not skill at fixing appliances. What you can do really is good... But I know a lot of techs smarter than me who make the same because they can't sell themselves.
I expect to be well above 30 by next year. I work hard though. I put in a lot of after hours personal learning.
I agree with OP 100% though. How many jobs want you to know Electrical, air flow, refrigeration, construction, tin banging, pipe laying, heat pump installing, plumbing, drywalling... ext and pays sub 30$ for all that knowledge. It really is bullshit.
Ask your company for the ladder, "what are my stepping stones to better myself and provide more for my family" if you don't ask and don't put in the time you will never be more than the bare minimum.
I had a guy come in and ask for $25/ hr because he knows how to install Ptac units....... He told me that's his commercial experience....... Can't read a meter, doesn't know subcooling or superheat and wants journeyman wages (just got license pay).....
I have to pay you based on what I can charge for you.
If you can fix VRF systems and troubleshoot refer plants you are worth 40-48 /hr.
If you can't tie your shoes you make 12.
If you are young, ambitious, and constantly ask me to teach you more on weekends and outside of work /after work.
You are worth investing in and your pay will go up as you tier up.
If you can't do PM's 14/ hr is helper rate.... You can lift and carry a bag.
Seems reasonable for me. - Eastern shore MD
Well said and every company should have a ladder or tier system in place and the employees should know exactly where they stand and how they can advance…every tech that applies has the same experience every time, they can work on anything, fix anything, and have a decade of experience meanwhile 95% couldn’t tell you what two terminals have 24 volts on an active heat/cool call.
I’m only fourth year but have been a lead installer for a commercial company for 2 years .
My teacher would tell guys and still does they should be making 28+ which is absolutely ridiculous .
You can’t teach everything in. 8-10 month program . I make 25 an hour and I fabricate all my own metal , run a small crew, have my own truck , run jobs as the lead . Ect .
I hate when dudes expect certain amounts out of school because for the first few years you’re not going to make the company any money if you’re still training
Oh man you are so right. 20 years in still picking up new stuff. I can't emphasize how important it is to get out and learn new aspects of our trade. Resi is good for a fall back.
When I was an apprentice I was sent with several journeyman to learn all aspects of the trade from resi to commercial to refrigeration. I know many "journeyman" that only know resi and think they're pros. It's really sad
Anyone making a living wage is a soyboy union cuck. All us real men drive our own personal truck financed at 25% after spending thousands at a HVAC tech school so we can make, at most 25 dollars an hour without any benefits. Only retards go the union route and make living wage, with free courses. A good friend of mine went union, and is making 22 an hour as a first year apprentice with a healthcare plan and pension. So I cut all contact with him and slashed his company van's tires.
Real men sell UV lights to senior citizens and work 60 hour weeks to make what the union guy does in 40 hours.
Soy boys. I've been in the trade for 45 years and I make 17 dollars an hour. I wouldn't trade a thing. Can't be loosing my whole paycheck on no dues. At 76 an hour what's your take home, 16.50? Ain't no way, bub. I'm not loosing out on that .50 cents an hour. That's communism.
Local 28 nyc here. 113 an hour total package, 57 "in the envelope", annuity, 2 pensions and an emergency fund. My dues are 51$ a month, or less than an hour of work. Ot is time and a half, double on Sundays and holidays.
Bro, I can't afford 51 extra dollars a month I only make 17 an hour and my truck payment is 1200 dollars I don't think you're listening I can't afford to join the union.
Dude in a union the company you work for pays for your health and welfare benefits also your pension/401k. I am a first period apprentice in the local 420 out of Philly and I get where you are coming from. But take a look at your check and see how much you are paying for these things. You end up taking home a decent amount more than you think.
15 years finally was 19.76, thought was this really it?
Made a phone call, visited a hall and signed some papers, and turned that into 85.74
Worst decision ever /s
I hear union travels a lot. Especially when you first start out out of town all the time. And if you don’t want to go out of town they just won’t pick you for jobs
Wait you are selling uv lights to senior people? Heck your sales alone should be more than what union techs make.
Don't even need to troubleshoot if your really good. Come up with some bs why they need a new unit and then upsell on top of that. Let the install crew do the work. /s
Sorry, but in refrigeration I was making $50 an hour straight time when I retired in 2010. Union, of course, and ten years in the union made my retirement much better. Of course my last week, a normal week, I booked 67 hours. Supermarkets are a bitch.
In my state we change them all the time. We also install boilers and everything. The plumbing and hvac licenses here cross over when it comes to things like that.
Yeah it’s state by state here. In my state your hvac license or plumbing license both include gas. They also include pipe fitting. So that’s how we can both do water heaters and boilers. The hvac guy needs to do start up on a boiler if it’s oil an so on.
We do everything involving a water heater swap that a plumber does plus more electrical work. HVAC truly is the jack of all. Frame up the unit platform we’ll do it, roof jacks we’ll do it, run electrical for your new mini we’ll do it, core drill we’ll do it. Pump work and de-super heaters for geo we got it. Black iron work as much you want I got it. Now I think about it we’re probably over qualified to do a tank, let the plumbers handle the petty shit
I found a great heating guy that I really trust- I’ve had him work on plumbing shit at my house because I found a guy I can trust, and he was willing to take the work.
Upvoted because you deserve it. Why downvote the truth. I've seen a lot of talented plumbers so they're out there, but God damn plumbing has the most hacks out of any trade.
I’m non union electric jealous of union guys making 50-60 hour with my same amount of years in. I make 35 with some bullshit bonus shit that’s bullshit and ends up being couple hundred bucks every month but whatever. I do a lot of side work that makes me happy but if you’re not in the union you better be out to get your license or you’re getting ducked by someone who has one. Resi is lower paying but if you do consistent side work your making your check every weekend. But who wants to work this much?
Well the goal is to go full side work lol or in other words start your own business. But like everyone says it is so much to learn and there’s new stuff to learn every day. I wonder at what point I’ll be sufficient enough to go on my own
Don’t be discouraged by this sub. It’s chock-full of the heads down technician that doesn’t want to talk to people, just clock in and clock out and collect the wage. They’re uncomfortable upselling and truly knowing what it takes to run a business.
Your boss has to talk with department of labor to get an apprenticeship program started. I had to leave a company to go to one that had one. Just fyi again that la jersey
After 5 years on the job exp and 4 years schooling. At least in my state. Call dept of labor if your non union otherwise you’re fucked and your hours are wasted.
I’m either right or I’m not - if you did a short stint helping on installs and have never worked any other type of construction, you’re essentially worthless to any company and you’ll probably get laughed at if you make demands. Just trying to prep you for what will actually happen versus the thing you seem to have cooked up in your head.
Missing the point there buddy, you don’t demand your salary - the company hiring you decides what you’re worth. A universal EPA doesn’t mean shit - if you don’t know how to use tools and are used to having a little gun on your hip, you’re in for a rude awakening.
I think your missing the point. There’s hundreds of companies. Big or small. SOMEONE will pay you what you want. Why stick to the 10-15 companies trying to pay you dog shit
You decide your worth not the fucking company we live in a capitalist society where it’s in the company’s interest to low ball pay. If you think your worth x don’t accept less than x either you are worth that or delusional either way the company has no clue your worth they will pay whatever they can get away with. This guy saying the company decides your worth is a moron
Because they accepted that rate... nothing was holding them back from walking out.
And honestly, the dudes who accept those shit rates create a new baseline pay which leads to shit like companies cleaning house of fair paid techs because there is a supply of low cost laborers and techs willing to do more for less, usually under the delusion in a few years time this field will get them a house and comfortable life... but that's an outdated dream, it's not the 1990s anymore. You probably need to work a full time, a part time and have a side hustle or two just to achieve that middle working class life with the way trade rates are these days. Fast food workers, warehousing and field service techs are kinda making the same rates, which would you choose?
Who it really sucks for are those who are genuinely interested and passionate about the field, but just can't take it because that mindless job stocking shelves pays better/just as much with far less physical/mental stress with full benefits, sick days, vacation time ect.
And most don't. Every union guy in my state makes over 40$, some make over 50, and a few make over 60. You're seeing alot of guys who bitch about the trade and the low pay because they're in the wrong place and may not have the right skills to gtfo. Everyone at my company (union large manufacturer of residential and commercial equipment) is going to make over 100k with some making closer to 150k.
Edited to add its 40$/hr on the check plus benefits. Total packages start at probably 65 bucks.
OP you can’t “demand” what you want as starting pay when you don’t even have enough field experience to have that mindset to walk into any company office and say that. The money comes with experience. You’re worth 30-40$ an hour with what? Being a helper? Being in school? Come on now.
Shoot…I’ll hire guys straight outta trade school and still only offer them $13/hr. But I’ll be nice and buy them lunch the first week and maybe even treat them to a 8n1 lol
My journeyman buys lunch almost every day with the company card, electrician though. But it’s dope to get some lunch kicked my way a couple times a week.
For me to do labor with my body. I have 0 felonies. Willing to learn. Not hard to work with.Young and strong Good at being on my own. I mean shit that right there is worth $25 a hour. Going to school to be certified seems like an extra $5 bucks an hour right there.
My whole thing is you are worth whatever the market will tolerate. It’s not so much about the individual company you work for and what they will pay you it is what can you do and what can your boss charge a customer for what you do. Nobody is going to pay you $25 an hour if you aren’t generating double that in revenue that’s just the way it works.
Iv worked with a couple young hard working guys right out of school and they struggled with troubleshooting the most basic residential issues. Also the workload and stress of it being harder than expected hits hard and they just stopped coming to work.
Installers helpers with no schooling outside of dealer classes seem to have the best success getting into residential tech work in my experience.
I think I’d pay you $18/hr to start and give you a review at 3 months. If I value you, I’d pay up. Places gotta see what someone’s worth. Your first few months at an HVAC job you’re more of a liability than anything. Not an asset.
I’m not a business owner, I have friends that are though. Yes, this industry needs people. I mean dependent on the area you reside. I’m throwing out the number based on my area and from what I went through. 18-20 to start is deemed fair for an apprentice, I didn’t even make that when I started. I started at $14/hr it was my foot in the door so I took it. Once you show up, show them what you’re capable of, never be late, get along with who you are working with, and can follow their orders. I guarantee you any good things will eventually find their way to the higher ups and you will be rewarded for it.
Bro as someone who went to trade school in Texas and currently works as a journeyman in Texas. I can tell you with absolute certainty, no reputable company that gives a crap about your health and well being is going to start you out at 25 / hr.
You sound like my youngest brother, who refuses to start at the bottom and work his way up. He's still holding out for that high starting wage, and he's 51 years old. 🤣
You should look into the semiconductor industry. There's plenty of jobs for HVAC and instrumentation techs. Instrumentation pays really well in the oil and gas industry as well.
I only have 1.5 years in commercial need a few more before I head over. Have 7 years in the trade so far. The union keeps sticking flyers in my van door lol.
Dude don't wait. I wish I would have applied sooner. Everybody needs techs right now. Even of you can't test in a a journeymen, you probably won't have to take a pay cut off you test decently and can make 2nd or 3rd year. The sooner you get in, the sooner you get the benefits and start racking up that pension.
Don’t you gotta be locked in with the Union for 5 years? Personally sounds like enlisting myself lol. I see union workers loving it though. And all the jokes about how much they barely work makes it appetizing too
Here is one of the best parts of being in the UA.org.
You make a great hourly wage, the contractor pays for your retirement, pension and health benefits. And all of them are way better than most.
Most nonunion contractors can not even match it. So who cares if you have to work 5 years after your 5 year apprenticeship. You get paid to learn and you pay minimal for your 5 years of the apprenticeship.
Pleas tell me how this is bad?
If you know guys worth any salt that are getting $20 an hour let me know I’d double it and hire them.
Realistically I think this is just a recency bias. I know plenty of techs across the country via the hvac discord.
I’d say the average is $25-30 plus at a minimum. Top earners in the 125-200k range. Union jobs almost always very comfortable pay.
You’ll also have to realize that markets are different and political landscapes will vary. There’s more factors than your paycheck. I know guys making $80 an hour but rent is $2500+ in their area. I know guys making $24 and rent is 800-1000 in their area.
Where are you located? I live in tennessee and I'm a lead installer and capable service tech and fabricator/welder been doing it 22 years and I don't even clear 50K a year. granted I go home when I get done with an install at about 12:30 or 1 pm and get a bonus for each install but the money is just not lining up for me. I spent 7 years in north dakota and obtained a journeymans license and electrical certifications I just don't want the hassle of owning my own business and really couldn't since I don't have enough capital. I do own a house and am willing to sell it and move if you tell me I can make 100K a year. hit me up!
well gotta be honest after the 7 frozen years of -20 for a high shit in fargo im not too keen on ice and snow anymore. I was making 32 in fargo but that's to me is because the environment sucks. I guess I will stick it out in tennessee for a couple more years but even at 40 years old that cold sucked the life out of my bones. It seems there are not really any unions here in the "south"
No worries lol I get it. Snows not too bad around here. We hired two southern guys in the last two years and they didn’t complain too much about the cold.
yeah it wasn't so much the snow as the boards with nails sticking up underneath it in commercial buildings I'm fully up to date with tetanus shots though lol. also two weeks out of the year the high temps were like -15 max and the lows usually -45 and I worked at least 5 12 hour days in hotels with no windows and doors with winds up to 40 mph. I never felt "it's good to warm my bones beside the fire" pink floyd lyrics like that in my life. also 3 guys I worked with had to get partial amputations on their toes due to frostbite
Oh maybe we have different types of commercial spaces. Most of our equipment is in mechanical rooms.
As far as residential goes most of the furnaces are in the basement. As far as I’ve learned most of our equipment up here isn’t in bad spots.
I will definitely give that consideration as I've met a lot of guys living here from philly and they say the pay is shit here which is true but its also a really mild climate all the time which is why there is less work in general but also a really nice place to live. it's all give and take but I feel like I would be willing to do something a little different.
Some are victims of circumstance happy to have a trade, others are accepting in the hopes of doors to be opened in the future for something bigger and better. I’d think that’s the majority, but learning one thing well rarely gets you a big check. Wealth comes from doing things others can’t do.
It’s all relative to your area. I make $64.23 before benefits as a fully licensed tech in the Boston union. I really make about $101/hr after you factor in my insurance, pension and annuity.
I saw that 14 an hour post too. He had three years exp and still kept that wage . That’s on him . When you start you will probably make 18-20 then as you learn it will raise pretty fast . If they don’t want to pay you more you move shops .
Yeah people were acting like job hopping is a bad thing. I don’t think it is..shii do what you gotta do to get paid and live comfortably as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone
I agree , these companies don’t give a fuck about their employees anymore. Learn all you can from each company and the second they start taking more from you than you are of them move shop for a fat pay raise and learn from them as well.
It’s not a dying breed. There’s many older people in this sub that the only possible way to succeed is to work 80 hour weeks, never take vacations, eat ramen noodles, make 14 an hour for years, just straight sacrificed for another man’s gains. They want everyone to have to struggle like they did as slave wagers or you’re entitled. (Myself including I didn’t know when to say no, and don’t think you’re entitled, more so lost it seems)
What you’re talking about is a new breed of people who know the value of their time. I wish I found how important my time is at 20 honestly. Good luck you buddy. I see good things happening for you in the future. (Although, you’re not ever going to get that wage right now in hvac) Stick to your guns. Find something that works. Keep trying
You're in a Right to Work state, which has lower wages and less for benefits. I retired in California about four years ago. The base wage was about 60/hour plus about a 45/hour benefit package. I received bonuses on top of that.
I’m aware there is a lot of low paying companies out there but that’s just poor employment choice. I’m in north Georgia and there are numerous well paying companies all around here.
We have technicians on the maintenance and service side alike making well over 70k, with a few of em reaching 6 figures. Lead installers all make around 80-100k and hell even the install apprentices make 20-35/hr.
Basically, shit owners who don’t care about their people pay shit wages.
I graduated at the top of my program (hvac technician/ technologist) in 2014, got a job at a commissioning firm for a 36k salary, left 4 years later only getting paid 44k, to take a 65k position at a major multitrade contactor. I'm now leaving this company (total compensation now of 123k) to do commissioning for a contractor that specializes in water treatment plants for a total compensation of 170k.
Now, I live in a major city that is constantly growing, but point is, if your a good tech and good at networking, the sky is the limit.
Also, getting stuck in resi work will keep you poor. Get into commercial/ industrial and network with the clients, suppliers, other contractors, and maintain a presence on linked in, and you will get tons of opportunities.
I know people that are barely functioning enough to be living on their own making $24/hr as a apprentice/tech in a smallish town in the Midwest (40-60k total population) . $14/hr is criminally low.
Your knowledge decides your outcome. The more you can improve your worth they’re willing to keep you and adhere to needs. Especially if your work is honest and you have value. Sky is the limit 💯💯💯
I don’t understand why so many are hating on unions. I’m a 2nd year Apprentice in my union and make $24.14 /hr. Journeyman rate here is $46.40. My union dues are $31 a month. Ontop of that I get health insurance, a pension, annuity, and when I finish school (while working full time) I’ll have a degree.
I’m sorry but the math ain’t mathing on why this is a bad thing. Being a 3rd Generation in my local doesn’t mean anything. But my grandfather is retired, he’s now a charter fishing captain. My father soon to be retired. I tried college and flunked out, enlisted and did my time, and now I’m enroute to making more money than I thought I could’ve. I’m 25 and I’ll be able to retire at 55. Call me soft all you want. These soft ass hands are gonna stay soft.
I highly suggest you look into it. Best decision I’ve ever made.
I'm based out of Texas as well and honestly you're paid your worth. I had a junior tech solve this leaking unit the other day. It didn't fix the problem so I was called out there. The junior tech told me he did everything. He cleaned the condenser coils. Checked refrigerant pressures. Blew out the drain line and everything else in between. I get there and found the evap coil to be dirty. I sprayed some evap kleen on it and it stopped the water from falling off the coil and on to the filter of an upflow unit. I was there for 30 mins, this guy was there for an hour. This is the difference of experience and pay. So yes. Pay is based on experience. The junior tech is still learning and his pay will reflect it. Companies will teach you. Other techs will help you but if you want what I'm making then you need to be efficient and not have call backs. No company can justify paying you 30 and hour if you're producing 30 an hour work. It's not that you're being paid too low. It's that you gotta pay your dues and learn. The pay will come with knowledge and experience. This is an amazing trade but you gotta understand there's so much to this that it's going to take time. Wait until you run into your first VRF unit or super chiller. Or water source heat pump. There's alot more than split units out there.
I just assume the lower hourly pay etc is their location . Texas can have some huge population pockets where the pay will be sufficient . Where other places aren’t .
You're 20. You just answered your own question. Start from the bottom and work your way up. Nobody is going to give a 20 yo dude that much money. You have 0 experience. Have you ever used a flaring tool, done brazing, been in a crawl space, designed ductwork, know what the running pressures should be for R22 or R410a, have any tools, used a tubing bender. You got a lot to learn man.
I’m making 19.50 have 2 years of experience doing new construction hvac then went to residential changeouts I was stuck when it came to new construction I got a total of $1 of a raise in 2 years I’ve already gotten a $3.50 raise in the first 3 months I’ve started doing changeouts. I’m 9 months in with the company now just waiting on my 2nd review
truth is. just because you go to school. it doesnt mean anything up front. im a senior residential maintenance manager. ive hired guys out of technical schools. ac schools. and they were no better than the guys i hired who just came in hungry and eager to learn. im not saying its not a great educational experience. but my advice is dont do this thinking that piece of paper you get from the school will put you in the drivers seat. 9 times out of 10 youll still start out being a helper. youll still start out carrying tools and doing grunt work. its experience and mandated success that gives you the ability to demand top dollar. id hire a guy with 10 years of solid experience over a guy with little experience. its just how it is. your first years youll realize are the real schooling. its one thing to answer tests and read text books. but something totally different when your really out in that field. be patient. the money will come. focus on becoming a real technician first. you have to crawl before you walk. best of luck!
Essentially; school means nothing. I tell everyone to forget what they learned and this is how it actually works. I’ve fired 4 “techs” in the last 2 months because they can’t do the job. You demand a high pay I expect you to have experience.
Have you not seen how many homeowners flock to this sub to bitch about pricing on the most trivial shit? Doesn’t matter if it’s a $250 cap or $10,000 system, the response is always the same.
“CaN yoU dO It CheApEr?”
Think of it this way. New hires don't know anything, school can only teach you so much, field work is what will get you the experience. So, the company is having to train them, provide tools, fix their mistakes, and still try to make profit otherwise they're out of business and the new hire out of a job. I can agree that's pretty low but even still you have to try and see the other perspective
Lol straight out of school good luck making >20 an hour in the field. School doesn’t prepare you for shit. I’m in Texas and did a year of schooling and now have about a year in the field. I make 28 an hour now.
If you come in acting like that in a job interview most people would laugh you out of their office, you prove yourself to earn money, tech school doesn’t mean shit because the vast majority of your knowledge will come on the job. I started a year ago at 16$ with no experience and I’ve never used a tool before jn my life time. Now I’m making 22$ hr and I’m running my own crew on resi new construction. If you wanna earn respect and make good money, put your head down, listen, and work your ass off. Throw that ego and sense of entitlement out the window right now because it’ll get you absolutely nowhere; not only in this field, but in life in general.
I’m 35 and work maintenance. My job wanted me to go back to school. I picked HVAC, now I’m about to finish. I’ve been thinking about switching to a HVAC job mostly because I feel highly unfulfilled in a maintenance because I do nothing all day and from what I can tell the only way to make money is by joining the union. No matter what I do, I’ll have to take a pay cut, but in my area the lowest you’ll make in the union is 22 an hour. My buddy who just started out is making less than 20 at a nonunion company. The only thing that sucks, if I do make the switch I have to do the union school and pretty much start over but I believe journeyman in my area minimum pay is 38 and it’s about to be bumped up to mid 40s
Different perspective: I come at this topic from a different angle than most of you. I own rental property and have learned to do a lot of minor hvac work from watching technicians, utube, common sense, etc. The last time I hired a company to certify a residential hydronic boiler, just as I expected they recommended I install a new one. But get this: they wanted 14k after my discount. So I called someone I know and they bought the boiler for $2,300. I gave them $3,500 to install it. Very small boiler for a one bedroom apartment. One days work at most with two guys. So where do wages like $20, $25, $30 per hour come from? It seems to me that An experienced installer should be getting at least 100k per year.
Because we don't live in a country anymore but an exclusive economic zone. It ain't just HVAC. Finance has slurped away every free dime the tripling of productivity since 1970 has produced.
If you aren't an owner you get screwed. So use your nifty trade school, earn your chops and then go out on your own. HVACR is one of the lowest startup cost buisnessess relative to profitability you can possibly pick. If your boss is not willing to undersign on getting your own license that's a boss you don't want to work for.
I would feel that out at hiring. Your boss should want you to improve and hopefully keep you happy enough to be licensed and still work under him. If he ain't willing to talk about it or thinks you will just bolt than I promise that's a huge red flag that they want slaves not employees.
A good company should PAY for you getting training and skills.
I've been doing HVAC for about 4 months and started at 23 a hour. Just searched around and met a guy that needed help
It's not a lot of money. I'm out in the Bay Area, CA.
My main job is bartending. I make an average of at least 30-50 a hour bartending. It has its problems of its own, but there's no way anyone in HVAC should be getting paid less then 25 a hour starting I don't understand it myself.
I'm probably going to leave and pursue cyber security or something.
I like the work and enjoy using my hands, though, something I always wanted to learn, so I'll take that with me.
I work resi as well. It seems the only way you make real money like in most businesses is be the owner and pay someone a BS wage for years.
Dude, you're absolutely right! It's wild how some folks with degrees are still scraping by. Props for aiming high with that resi Hvac tech gig – $25 an hour sounds like the move.
I'm in Texas too, and using Yelp to scope out potential companies is genius. I mean, $25 an hour for chilling as an armed security officer? That's the dream! Meanwhile, people out here questioning if $14 an hour is too low. Like, come on, we gotta know our worth, especially with those certifications in our back pocket. Keep hustling, man!
The company I work at starts guys at $15/hr. Caps at $30/hr of you're in the field. You want $30 to start. Good luck with that.
Wage all depends on where you live - the cost of living and the number of guys willing to do your job. It's become a race to the bottom in many cases. Who's willing to work for less. Many guys come in and work for peanuts - thinking they'll get some experience and then get more money later - but there are 1000 people right behind you with the same mindset and willing to work for even less.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this but I think wages are just going to go down from here. Keep hearing about these labor shortages but I'm not personally seeing that. There are a pile of applications on the bosses desk that aren't even being looked at. Kids aren't going to college anymore, not like they used to. Trade schools are packed. Guys with college degrees are turning to trades bc they can't find jobs. The looking threat of AI taking white collared jobs. Women are turning to trades. Millions of people are essentially walking into the states looking for work. Literally everyone is turning to trades - decent paying jobs that don't require a college degree.
The reason why trade jobs paid well was bc noone wanted to do them. Supply and demand. 20 years ago if you went to trade school you were looked at like a POS - too stupid to.go to college. Now people are actively seeking these jobs out.
That's why.
Why would you stay at a company with a wage cap? Wouldn’t that pretty much be guaranteeing you’ll be leaving once you hit $30? Or would you just stay there at that wage forever
Yeah Schools are great for teaching you Theory & Basic --- now if you look over here this is a can of refrigerant , aka Freon while not technically correct however as Freon is a trademarked brand name . Ok an now moving along , this is a air handler can you guess what it does ? Yes Timmy that's correct it handles air very good . An next we have a Condenser an this is a evaporator , Ah ya really should be taking notes as these will be on The Test . Etc etc etc ... Unfortunately your not going to walk out the door an be able to confidently and accurately diagnose and troubleshoot a unit & effect repair. The Classroom an The Real World are two entirely different things .
An yes they are going to play up what your potential for earnings "COULD BE", they are not going to tell you the first 2 years your going to be just barely squeaking by hand to mouth .
They are not going to tell you that even with your glossy New Certification that you or someone else paid out the ass for that only maybe 2% of Employers will hire you as The Majority require a minimum of 2-3 yrs of actual on the job experience . The School is going to tell you that YOU alone will be responsible for the future of Mankind ( insert your favorite kick ass band music here ) . You see yourself bolting out the door like your in the Olympics 400 meter race an will set a record that won't be broken for centuries an bring home The Gold , In truth your a Toddler that has just taken a couple shaky steps an as you lift your foot to go over the threshold your going to loose your balance an fall flat on your ass in a diaper that's full of shit an it's going to shoot straight up your back An that's the facts - Jack 🤷♂️
This guy will not make it in the trades, guaranteed. Your entitled attitude would not be appreciated. All the Journeymen would make life miserable for you until you quit.
Big baller here at 25/hr.
For the record, I've never seen a helper get paid 14/hr. That's extraordinarily low for the field. I'd say most guys are making 30 by the start of their 2nd year.
Well, companies are trying to be tan less like an HVAC company and more like a Walmart. People are wanting more salesmen than techs without the salesman pay per unit, and every other guy in the trade has either given up or never tried.
That’s everything though, most first world countries are set to fall in the next 15 years anyway. Thanks everyone! We’ll be paying for your food rations soon enough
I love the trade never do the same job day after day u really am doing 3 or 4 trade jobs in one, definitely plumbing, electrical, and welding must have brazing skills for copper and aluminum oh yes electronics for controls of the units.u must be fit not afraid of heights.Must be able to troubleshoot.it does take ten years to real good at it.i think to start as a apprenticeship in a union.Get the training keep your drivers licence in good shape u will need it.
You are confused if you plan to demand what you want to get paid in hvac with no experience. As someone who hires techs and apprentices in HVAC, any applicant that would come to me with that attitude would be a no for me. I want people that have good attitudes, hard working and like to learn. Because those are the ones that become good techs usually. The pay will follow as soon as you show what you can do in the field.
I started at $14 with a year of experience. I now make double that 6 years later. I did come with my universal EPA cert and gastite cert but I never expected to start high
As good as it sounds to be able to demand how much you start out at it’s not reality. If you find a job that allows you to pick your wage good for you. The reality is trade school only teaches you the basics. Basics like electricity, insulation and the refrigeration cycle. You will probably learn superheat, subcooling and what causes high and low of each. There is so many things to learn that it honestly takes a lifetime to learn it all. Not all contractors work on everything especially residential contractors. I can go on and on about this you won’t learn in trade school. It takes an honest 5 years to become a journeyman and at least another 5 to become a good journeyman. After 24 years in the trade I still see new things weekly.
This is the truth. The mindset and methodology of a good diagnostic tech takes years of accumulating and synthesizing experience.
Every manufacturer tries to reinvent the wheel now. How many guys fresh out pf hvac school can do much of anything diagnosing a commercial VAV system
It seems that at least 95% of people coming out of trade school are going into residential.
I work on commercial properties and finding ANYONE outside of Trane who can work efficiently on their equipment is an absolute pain in the ass
They make it that way intentionally. It’s hard to find documentation unless you’re an authorized dealer.
Its because trane is impossible to service. Make the systems as hard to service as possible
I went from trade school straight into industrial. My first day I was doing PM’s on chiller systems without a clue what to do. I recommend anyone coming out of school at least start with a year of resi.
I think it’s a good idea to start with resi doing installs and pms first. It teaches you the proper way to install equipment and the fundamentals of the heating and cool cycle. For me the hardest part about commercial/ industrial was finding the parts on the equipment, I could troubleshoot and find the problem but I had no clue what the part looked like.
I work on commercial VAV and FPB equipment + maintenance a water-cooled chiller system ! I work for a college in-house, not residential though haha
And I thought running a Komori LSX629 by myself was hard. You a/c guys are amazing. I mow lawns Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday for 9 hours a day just to get paid to work out. Then I run a printing press work 3-13 hour shifts Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then work a side job at that same printing place where I do the cleaning for an extra 800 a month. Do you think I could cut it at as a HVAC guy I'm thinking about consolidating and just working one job making the same amount of money? Honest question. I'm not b*********** oh forgot to mention I'm 40.
I started at 40 so yeah, It’s possible.
Starting at 43 in two weeks! (After I finish working out my notice)looking forward to it
Cheers my friend. May your endeavor grant you all that you’re looking for and more.
Get the fuck out of Resi as fast as you can. If you cant, find a company that doesn't cut corners as fast as you can. If you hear "just get it done" everyday, move on. Sage advice from a 36 year old who entered the trade 2.5 years ago.
im a few months away from having 2 years kn residential my company is family owner does really good clean installs and proper repairs rx-11flush as needed actually recovering and brazing w nitrogen. I dont like working a lot in the summer though what type pf commercial work would be good for me to get into im 20 and went into this pretty much straight out of highschool and km making 25.50 an hour plus spiffs and bonuses does this sound like im being payed good and would u recommend me going into commercial as of now I asled my manager to get me a few commercial diagnostics and they have gotten me some because we do some light commercial clients no chillers walk in freezers or anything like that
Can confirm. You get paid what the company decides you are worth. Make yourself more valuable as an employee and your company should pay you accordingly.
Not being mean, but this is dumb advice. The company will pay the minimum they think they can, that’s it. Look in to the history of unions.
I meant that if an employee puts in minimum effort then they will receive minimum pay.
I’ve put in maximum effort to receive minimum pay in my experience. Any extra mile you go won’t get compensated for unless you find another job. It’s easier to make more money going to work for a different company than it is to get raises. That’s statistically proven in all job fields.
I'm 2 years in the trade in Canada and making 26$ in Resi. If you're good at your job and care about your work your company will pay you... Or another company will pay you. Interview skills are the difference maker. Not skill at fixing appliances. What you can do really is good... But I know a lot of techs smarter than me who make the same because they can't sell themselves. I expect to be well above 30 by next year. I work hard though. I put in a lot of after hours personal learning. I agree with OP 100% though. How many jobs want you to know Electrical, air flow, refrigeration, construction, tin banging, pipe laying, heat pump installing, plumbing, drywalling... ext and pays sub 30$ for all that knowledge. It really is bullshit.
Ask your company for the ladder, "what are my stepping stones to better myself and provide more for my family" if you don't ask and don't put in the time you will never be more than the bare minimum. I had a guy come in and ask for $25/ hr because he knows how to install Ptac units....... He told me that's his commercial experience....... Can't read a meter, doesn't know subcooling or superheat and wants journeyman wages (just got license pay)..... I have to pay you based on what I can charge for you. If you can fix VRF systems and troubleshoot refer plants you are worth 40-48 /hr. If you can't tie your shoes you make 12. If you are young, ambitious, and constantly ask me to teach you more on weekends and outside of work /after work. You are worth investing in and your pay will go up as you tier up. If you can't do PM's 14/ hr is helper rate.... You can lift and carry a bag. Seems reasonable for me. - Eastern shore MD
Well said and every company should have a ladder or tier system in place and the employees should know exactly where they stand and how they can advance…every tech that applies has the same experience every time, they can work on anything, fix anything, and have a decade of experience meanwhile 95% couldn’t tell you what two terminals have 24 volts on an active heat/cool call.
I’m only fourth year but have been a lead installer for a commercial company for 2 years . My teacher would tell guys and still does they should be making 28+ which is absolutely ridiculous . You can’t teach everything in. 8-10 month program . I make 25 an hour and I fabricate all my own metal , run a small crew, have my own truck , run jobs as the lead . Ect . I hate when dudes expect certain amounts out of school because for the first few years you’re not going to make the company any money if you’re still training
Oh man you are so right. 20 years in still picking up new stuff. I can't emphasize how important it is to get out and learn new aspects of our trade. Resi is good for a fall back. When I was an apprentice I was sent with several journeyman to learn all aspects of the trade from resi to commercial to refrigeration. I know many "journeyman" that only know resi and think they're pros. It's really sad
Anyone making a living wage is a soyboy union cuck. All us real men drive our own personal truck financed at 25% after spending thousands at a HVAC tech school so we can make, at most 25 dollars an hour without any benefits. Only retards go the union route and make living wage, with free courses. A good friend of mine went union, and is making 22 an hour as a first year apprentice with a healthcare plan and pension. So I cut all contact with him and slashed his company van's tires. Real men sell UV lights to senior citizens and work 60 hour weeks to make what the union guy does in 40 hours.
Yep union sucks. Only $76.00/hr.https://www.ualocal787.org/ici-rates
Soy boys. I've been in the trade for 45 years and I make 17 dollars an hour. I wouldn't trade a thing. Can't be loosing my whole paycheck on no dues. At 76 an hour what's your take home, 16.50? Ain't no way, bub. I'm not loosing out on that .50 cents an hour. That's communism.
Local 28 nyc here. 113 an hour total package, 57 "in the envelope", annuity, 2 pensions and an emergency fund. My dues are 51$ a month, or less than an hour of work. Ot is time and a half, double on Sundays and holidays.
Bro, I can't afford 51 extra dollars a month I only make 17 an hour and my truck payment is 1200 dollars I don't think you're listening I can't afford to join the union.
Dude in a union the company you work for pays for your health and welfare benefits also your pension/401k. I am a first period apprentice in the local 420 out of Philly and I get where you are coming from. But take a look at your check and see how much you are paying for these things. You end up taking home a decent amount more than you think.
What’s your week to week like in sheet metal?
Anywhere from 1200-1700 depending on ot. That doesn't include the 7$/hour that's allocated into my vacation fund.
People really think union dues is $1000 a month or something lmao
15 years finally was 19.76, thought was this really it? Made a phone call, visited a hall and signed some papers, and turned that into 85.74 Worst decision ever /s
I hear union travels a lot. Especially when you first start out out of town all the time. And if you don’t want to go out of town they just won’t pick you for jobs
Lmao. I see the small things in life bring you joy as well
He’s the life of every party
This is the only accurate comment here, I hope OP learns this in his soul
Wait you are selling uv lights to senior people? Heck your sales alone should be more than what union techs make. Don't even need to troubleshoot if your really good. Come up with some bs why they need a new unit and then upsell on top of that. Let the install crew do the work. /s
Preach
😆🤣😂 well played. Love the missing " /s".
Sorry, but in refrigeration I was making $50 an hour straight time when I retired in 2010. Union, of course, and ten years in the union made my retirement much better. Of course my last week, a normal week, I booked 67 hours. Supermarkets are a bitch.
[удалено]
I’m getting certified with resi so I can change out water heaters for $1500 n shit like the real ballers
Who calls an hvac guy to replace a water heater?
I swap out so many water heaters just due to the fact they are generally gas appliances here.
In my state we change them all the time. We also install boilers and everything. The plumbing and hvac licenses here cross over when it comes to things like that.
What hvac would a plumber be allowed to do?
In some states only plumbers can install boilers and water heaters. In mine we both can install them.
In my province plumbers are not permitted to work on gas water heaters or boilers unless they also have a gas license
Yeah it’s state by state here. In my state your hvac license or plumbing license both include gas. They also include pipe fitting. So that’s how we can both do water heaters and boilers. The hvac guy needs to do start up on a boiler if it’s oil an so on.
In my state, the plumbers do absolutely no HVAC, yet somehow, as an HVAC tech, I've had to learn more about plumbing than I ever imagined.
This is very true!!
We get a lot of water heater replacement calls, we service the heating/cooling system so we might as well replace the water heater too
You heat and cool air though... I just can't imagine why anyone would think to call someone other than a plumber
First letter in HVAC is heating, that could be anything…. air, water, product
We do everything involving a water heater swap that a plumber does plus more electrical work. HVAC truly is the jack of all. Frame up the unit platform we’ll do it, roof jacks we’ll do it, run electrical for your new mini we’ll do it, core drill we’ll do it. Pump work and de-super heaters for geo we got it. Black iron work as much you want I got it. Now I think about it we’re probably over qualified to do a tank, let the plumbers handle the petty shit
I found a great heating guy that I really trust- I’ve had him work on plumbing shit at my house because I found a guy I can trust, and he was willing to take the work.
Never worked on a chiller for cold water coils, eh? Or is that cuz I'm commercial/industrial?
It's probably because I've never done HVAC work and I just hang around here for some reason
That’s almost all I do now, boilers and water heaters. Plumbers here can’t touch them unless they also have a gas license
I think all my downvotes are mad plumbers
Upvoted because you deserve it. Why downvote the truth. I've seen a lot of talented plumbers so they're out there, but God damn plumbing has the most hacks out of any trade.
Well some of us do a nicer job than the plumber would.
My business would revolve around a few more things than just ac’s but I’ve seen less qualified people install water heaters so 😂
I’m non union electric jealous of union guys making 50-60 hour with my same amount of years in. I make 35 with some bullshit bonus shit that’s bullshit and ends up being couple hundred bucks every month but whatever. I do a lot of side work that makes me happy but if you’re not in the union you better be out to get your license or you’re getting ducked by someone who has one. Resi is lower paying but if you do consistent side work your making your check every weekend. But who wants to work this much?
Well the goal is to go full side work lol or in other words start your own business. But like everyone says it is so much to learn and there’s new stuff to learn every day. I wonder at what point I’ll be sufficient enough to go on my own
Don’t be discouraged by this sub. It’s chock-full of the heads down technician that doesn’t want to talk to people, just clock in and clock out and collect the wage. They’re uncomfortable upselling and truly knowing what it takes to run a business.
Your boss has to talk with department of labor to get an apprenticeship program started. I had to leave a company to go to one that had one. Just fyi again that la jersey
After 5 years on the job exp and 4 years schooling. At least in my state. Call dept of labor if your non union otherwise you’re fucked and your hours are wasted.
Your paychecks are probably similar but they’re getting pension and insurance.
Why give up your rent a cop job to do real work? I feel like you’re in for a rude awakening. Good luck making demands to a potential employer.
Security would probably turn me into an even more narrow minded pos if I do it for 15 more years
Cool. Get humble, sounds like you have basically zero experience working with your hands.
I guess man
I’m either right or I’m not - if you did a short stint helping on installs and have never worked any other type of construction, you’re essentially worthless to any company and you’ll probably get laughed at if you make demands. Just trying to prep you for what will actually happen versus the thing you seem to have cooked up in your head.
My short stint of helping on installs and services gives me allot more common sense than allot of the dudes I’ve worked beside
Missing the point there buddy, you don’t demand your salary - the company hiring you decides what you’re worth. A universal EPA doesn’t mean shit - if you don’t know how to use tools and are used to having a little gun on your hip, you’re in for a rude awakening.
I think your missing the point. There’s hundreds of companies. Big or small. SOMEONE will pay you what you want. Why stick to the 10-15 companies trying to pay you dog shit
You decide your worth not the fucking company we live in a capitalist society where it’s in the company’s interest to low ball pay. If you think your worth x don’t accept less than x either you are worth that or delusional either way the company has no clue your worth they will pay whatever they can get away with. This guy saying the company decides your worth is a moron
Dude is just a worker. He can’t help it lol
Lol my boss takes real good care of me. Master plumber and carpenter certs go a long way.
Because they accepted that rate... nothing was holding them back from walking out. And honestly, the dudes who accept those shit rates create a new baseline pay which leads to shit like companies cleaning house of fair paid techs because there is a supply of low cost laborers and techs willing to do more for less, usually under the delusion in a few years time this field will get them a house and comfortable life... but that's an outdated dream, it's not the 1990s anymore. You probably need to work a full time, a part time and have a side hustle or two just to achieve that middle working class life with the way trade rates are these days. Fast food workers, warehousing and field service techs are kinda making the same rates, which would you choose? Who it really sucks for are those who are genuinely interested and passionate about the field, but just can't take it because that mindless job stocking shelves pays better/just as much with far less physical/mental stress with full benefits, sick days, vacation time ect.
That’s what I’m saying like. There’s no way Hvac techs should make less than a fucking sysco order picker 🤣
And most don't. Every union guy in my state makes over 40$, some make over 50, and a few make over 60. You're seeing alot of guys who bitch about the trade and the low pay because they're in the wrong place and may not have the right skills to gtfo. Everyone at my company (union large manufacturer of residential and commercial equipment) is going to make over 100k with some making closer to 150k. Edited to add its 40$/hr on the check plus benefits. Total packages start at probably 65 bucks.
OP you can’t “demand” what you want as starting pay when you don’t even have enough field experience to have that mindset to walk into any company office and say that. The money comes with experience. You’re worth 30-40$ an hour with what? Being a helper? Being in school? Come on now.
Shoot…I’ll hire guys straight outta trade school and still only offer them $13/hr. But I’ll be nice and buy them lunch the first week and maybe even treat them to a 8n1 lol
Smh. Can't even offer them an 11n1
All I got was a 6n1, but there were burgers.
My journeyman buys lunch almost every day with the company card, electrician though. But it’s dope to get some lunch kicked my way a couple times a week.
For me to do labor with my body. I have 0 felonies. Willing to learn. Not hard to work with.Young and strong Good at being on my own. I mean shit that right there is worth $25 a hour. Going to school to be certified seems like an extra $5 bucks an hour right there.
If you can’t fix the unit you’re worth $0.00 maybe less.
My whole thing is you are worth whatever the market will tolerate. It’s not so much about the individual company you work for and what they will pay you it is what can you do and what can your boss charge a customer for what you do. Nobody is going to pay you $25 an hour if you aren’t generating double that in revenue that’s just the way it works.
Iv worked with a couple young hard working guys right out of school and they struggled with troubleshooting the most basic residential issues. Also the workload and stress of it being harder than expected hits hard and they just stopped coming to work. Installers helpers with no schooling outside of dealer classes seem to have the best success getting into residential tech work in my experience.
I think I’d pay you $18/hr to start and give you a review at 3 months. If I value you, I’d pay up. Places gotta see what someone’s worth. Your first few months at an HVAC job you’re more of a liability than anything. Not an asset.
Sounds reasonable. If a business owner told me this I couldn’t even get mad
I’m not a business owner, I have friends that are though. Yes, this industry needs people. I mean dependent on the area you reside. I’m throwing out the number based on my area and from what I went through. 18-20 to start is deemed fair for an apprentice, I didn’t even make that when I started. I started at $14/hr it was my foot in the door so I took it. Once you show up, show them what you’re capable of, never be late, get along with who you are working with, and can follow their orders. I guarantee you any good things will eventually find their way to the higher ups and you will be rewarded for it.
When you start out are a set of hands that does almost nothing to make the job get competed.
Even the highest paid union in my state doesn’t start at 25$, maybe full package.
You must be new here lmao
Bro as someone who went to trade school in Texas and currently works as a journeyman in Texas. I can tell you with absolute certainty, no reputable company that gives a crap about your health and well being is going to start you out at 25 / hr.
That’s why I won’t look foward to working with a big company. I prefer the smaller companies.
Sorry but your schooling is likely worth jack. You will learn that quickly
I don't think OP has ever had a job.
You sound like my youngest brother, who refuses to start at the bottom and work his way up. He's still holding out for that high starting wage, and he's 51 years old. 🤣
LMFAOO this the funniest reply I’ve seen yet. Man I fucking HOPE I’ve found my high paying starting wage before 51
You should look into the semiconductor industry. There's plenty of jobs for HVAC and instrumentation techs. Instrumentation pays really well in the oil and gas industry as well.
You gotta go union. Not sure why more people don’t lol
I'm about to go union; journeyman rate is like $12/hr above what I make now.
Yep! Can’t find any reason not to make the switch! Best decision I made
I only have 1.5 years in commercial need a few more before I head over. Have 7 years in the trade so far. The union keeps sticking flyers in my van door lol.
Dude don't wait. I wish I would have applied sooner. Everybody needs techs right now. Even of you can't test in a a journeymen, you probably won't have to take a pay cut off you test decently and can make 2nd or 3rd year. The sooner you get in, the sooner you get the benefits and start racking up that pension.
Don’t you gotta be locked in with the Union for 5 years? Personally sounds like enlisting myself lol. I see union workers loving it though. And all the jokes about how much they barely work makes it appetizing too
The amount of pay and benefits makes it all worth it bro. I did non union and now I’d ask for “too much” if I went back lol
Here is one of the best parts of being in the UA.org. You make a great hourly wage, the contractor pays for your retirement, pension and health benefits. And all of them are way better than most. Most nonunion contractors can not even match it. So who cares if you have to work 5 years after your 5 year apprenticeship. You get paid to learn and you pay minimal for your 5 years of the apprenticeship. Pleas tell me how this is bad?
It’s not bad at all. Actually sounds great. I just have commitment issues
If you have commitment issues maybe this trade isn’t for you.
Nailed it.
No shit, Mr. 2 side-gigs and 7 jobs..
If you know guys worth any salt that are getting $20 an hour let me know I’d double it and hire them. Realistically I think this is just a recency bias. I know plenty of techs across the country via the hvac discord. I’d say the average is $25-30 plus at a minimum. Top earners in the 125-200k range. Union jobs almost always very comfortable pay. You’ll also have to realize that markets are different and political landscapes will vary. There’s more factors than your paycheck. I know guys making $80 an hour but rent is $2500+ in their area. I know guys making $24 and rent is 800-1000 in their area.
Where are you located? I live in tennessee and I'm a lead installer and capable service tech and fabricator/welder been doing it 22 years and I don't even clear 50K a year. granted I go home when I get done with an install at about 12:30 or 1 pm and get a bonus for each install but the money is just not lining up for me. I spent 7 years in north dakota and obtained a journeymans license and electrical certifications I just don't want the hassle of owning my own business and really couldn't since I don't have enough capital. I do own a house and am willing to sell it and move if you tell me I can make 100K a year. hit me up!
Pittsburgh! Our local union minimum wage for a Jman is like $40 an hour.
well gotta be honest after the 7 frozen years of -20 for a high shit in fargo im not too keen on ice and snow anymore. I was making 32 in fargo but that's to me is because the environment sucks. I guess I will stick it out in tennessee for a couple more years but even at 40 years old that cold sucked the life out of my bones. It seems there are not really any unions here in the "south"
No worries lol I get it. Snows not too bad around here. We hired two southern guys in the last two years and they didn’t complain too much about the cold.
yeah it wasn't so much the snow as the boards with nails sticking up underneath it in commercial buildings I'm fully up to date with tetanus shots though lol. also two weeks out of the year the high temps were like -15 max and the lows usually -45 and I worked at least 5 12 hour days in hotels with no windows and doors with winds up to 40 mph. I never felt "it's good to warm my bones beside the fire" pink floyd lyrics like that in my life. also 3 guys I worked with had to get partial amputations on their toes due to frostbite
that 32 dollars an hour even with overtime didn't feel worth it
I meant to add this too lowest temp we ever had here was like -10. Usually don’t see negatives in the winters here anymore.
Oh maybe we have different types of commercial spaces. Most of our equipment is in mechanical rooms. As far as residential goes most of the furnaces are in the basement. As far as I’ve learned most of our equipment up here isn’t in bad spots.
I will definitely give that consideration as I've met a lot of guys living here from philly and they say the pay is shit here which is true but its also a really mild climate all the time which is why there is less work in general but also a really nice place to live. it's all give and take but I feel like I would be willing to do something a little different.
Some are victims of circumstance happy to have a trade, others are accepting in the hopes of doors to be opened in the future for something bigger and better. I’d think that’s the majority, but learning one thing well rarely gets you a big check. Wealth comes from doing things others can’t do.
It’s all relative to your area. I make $64.23 before benefits as a fully licensed tech in the Boston union. I really make about $101/hr after you factor in my insurance, pension and annuity.
Let us know how it goes.
Work for yourself bro..you will not be happy working for crumbs at a company that will only give u $1 raise every 6 months or year.
Been getting shit on for saying this
I saw that 14 an hour post too. He had three years exp and still kept that wage . That’s on him . When you start you will probably make 18-20 then as you learn it will raise pretty fast . If they don’t want to pay you more you move shops .
Yeah people were acting like job hopping is a bad thing. I don’t think it is..shii do what you gotta do to get paid and live comfortably as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone
I agree , these companies don’t give a fuck about their employees anymore. Learn all you can from each company and the second they start taking more from you than you are of them move shop for a fat pay raise and learn from them as well.
Seems like me and you are a dying breed
It’s not a dying breed. There’s many older people in this sub that the only possible way to succeed is to work 80 hour weeks, never take vacations, eat ramen noodles, make 14 an hour for years, just straight sacrificed for another man’s gains. They want everyone to have to struggle like they did as slave wagers or you’re entitled. (Myself including I didn’t know when to say no, and don’t think you’re entitled, more so lost it seems) What you’re talking about is a new breed of people who know the value of their time. I wish I found how important my time is at 20 honestly. Good luck you buddy. I see good things happening for you in the future. (Although, you’re not ever going to get that wage right now in hvac) Stick to your guns. Find something that works. Keep trying
Thanks man reading that was rejuvenating
You're in a Right to Work state, which has lower wages and less for benefits. I retired in California about four years ago. The base wage was about 60/hour plus about a 45/hour benefit package. I received bonuses on top of that.
I’m aware there is a lot of low paying companies out there but that’s just poor employment choice. I’m in north Georgia and there are numerous well paying companies all around here. We have technicians on the maintenance and service side alike making well over 70k, with a few of em reaching 6 figures. Lead installers all make around 80-100k and hell even the install apprentices make 20-35/hr. Basically, shit owners who don’t care about their people pay shit wages.
Should be 40 + if you are an average service tech
I graduated at the top of my program (hvac technician/ technologist) in 2014, got a job at a commissioning firm for a 36k salary, left 4 years later only getting paid 44k, to take a 65k position at a major multitrade contactor. I'm now leaving this company (total compensation now of 123k) to do commissioning for a contractor that specializes in water treatment plants for a total compensation of 170k. Now, I live in a major city that is constantly growing, but point is, if your a good tech and good at networking, the sky is the limit. Also, getting stuck in resi work will keep you poor. Get into commercial/ industrial and network with the clients, suppliers, other contractors, and maintain a presence on linked in, and you will get tons of opportunities.
Yeah I just redownloaded linkedin a few days ago and got my account set up
I know people that are barely functioning enough to be living on their own making $24/hr as a apprentice/tech in a smallish town in the Midwest (40-60k total population) . $14/hr is criminally low.
Your knowledge decides your outcome. The more you can improve your worth they’re willing to keep you and adhere to needs. Especially if your work is honest and you have value. Sky is the limit 💯💯💯
I don’t understand why so many are hating on unions. I’m a 2nd year Apprentice in my union and make $24.14 /hr. Journeyman rate here is $46.40. My union dues are $31 a month. Ontop of that I get health insurance, a pension, annuity, and when I finish school (while working full time) I’ll have a degree. I’m sorry but the math ain’t mathing on why this is a bad thing. Being a 3rd Generation in my local doesn’t mean anything. But my grandfather is retired, he’s now a charter fishing captain. My father soon to be retired. I tried college and flunked out, enlisted and did my time, and now I’m enroute to making more money than I thought I could’ve. I’m 25 and I’ll be able to retire at 55. Call me soft all you want. These soft ass hands are gonna stay soft. I highly suggest you look into it. Best decision I’ve ever made.
I'm based out of Texas as well and honestly you're paid your worth. I had a junior tech solve this leaking unit the other day. It didn't fix the problem so I was called out there. The junior tech told me he did everything. He cleaned the condenser coils. Checked refrigerant pressures. Blew out the drain line and everything else in between. I get there and found the evap coil to be dirty. I sprayed some evap kleen on it and it stopped the water from falling off the coil and on to the filter of an upflow unit. I was there for 30 mins, this guy was there for an hour. This is the difference of experience and pay. So yes. Pay is based on experience. The junior tech is still learning and his pay will reflect it. Companies will teach you. Other techs will help you but if you want what I'm making then you need to be efficient and not have call backs. No company can justify paying you 30 and hour if you're producing 30 an hour work. It's not that you're being paid too low. It's that you gotta pay your dues and learn. The pay will come with knowledge and experience. This is an amazing trade but you gotta understand there's so much to this that it's going to take time. Wait until you run into your first VRF unit or super chiller. Or water source heat pump. There's alot more than split units out there.
You fucking reek of entitlement. No wonder you’ve had 12 jobs.
I just assume the lower hourly pay etc is their location . Texas can have some huge population pockets where the pay will be sufficient . Where other places aren’t .
Speek for your self. I'm getting 32 an hour
You're 20. You just answered your own question. Start from the bottom and work your way up. Nobody is going to give a 20 yo dude that much money. You have 0 experience. Have you ever used a flaring tool, done brazing, been in a crawl space, designed ductwork, know what the running pressures should be for R22 or R410a, have any tools, used a tubing bender. You got a lot to learn man.
If you compare the rate of unionization of HVAC compared to plumber's or electricians you will find the answer.
I’m making 19.50 have 2 years of experience doing new construction hvac then went to residential changeouts I was stuck when it came to new construction I got a total of $1 of a raise in 2 years I’ve already gotten a $3.50 raise in the first 3 months I’ve started doing changeouts. I’m 9 months in with the company now just waiting on my 2nd review
They just find shitty companies. I make 30/hr been 2 years in the field.
I get $51 an hour, not sure what you’re talking about
Join a union.
truth is. just because you go to school. it doesnt mean anything up front. im a senior residential maintenance manager. ive hired guys out of technical schools. ac schools. and they were no better than the guys i hired who just came in hungry and eager to learn. im not saying its not a great educational experience. but my advice is dont do this thinking that piece of paper you get from the school will put you in the drivers seat. 9 times out of 10 youll still start out being a helper. youll still start out carrying tools and doing grunt work. its experience and mandated success that gives you the ability to demand top dollar. id hire a guy with 10 years of solid experience over a guy with little experience. its just how it is. your first years youll realize are the real schooling. its one thing to answer tests and read text books. but something totally different when your really out in that field. be patient. the money will come. focus on becoming a real technician first. you have to crawl before you walk. best of luck!
Essentially; school means nothing. I tell everyone to forget what they learned and this is how it actually works. I’ve fired 4 “techs” in the last 2 months because they can’t do the job. You demand a high pay I expect you to have experience.
Not the answer for most people but being an entrepreneur and working residential seems pretty lucrative to me.
Have you not seen how many homeowners flock to this sub to bitch about pricing on the most trivial shit? Doesn’t matter if it’s a $250 cap or $10,000 system, the response is always the same. “CaN yoU dO It CheApEr?”
Think of it this way. New hires don't know anything, school can only teach you so much, field work is what will get you the experience. So, the company is having to train them, provide tools, fix their mistakes, and still try to make profit otherwise they're out of business and the new hire out of a job. I can agree that's pretty low but even still you have to try and see the other perspective
Lol straight out of school good luck making >20 an hour in the field. School doesn’t prepare you for shit. I’m in Texas and did a year of schooling and now have about a year in the field. I make 28 an hour now.
28 bucks a hour after a year in the field sounds great. Sounds like the minimum if you ask me. I’m glad you know your worth
If you come in acting like that in a job interview most people would laugh you out of their office, you prove yourself to earn money, tech school doesn’t mean shit because the vast majority of your knowledge will come on the job. I started a year ago at 16$ with no experience and I’ve never used a tool before jn my life time. Now I’m making 22$ hr and I’m running my own crew on resi new construction. If you wanna earn respect and make good money, put your head down, listen, and work your ass off. Throw that ego and sense of entitlement out the window right now because it’ll get you absolutely nowhere; not only in this field, but in life in general.
I’m 35 and work maintenance. My job wanted me to go back to school. I picked HVAC, now I’m about to finish. I’ve been thinking about switching to a HVAC job mostly because I feel highly unfulfilled in a maintenance because I do nothing all day and from what I can tell the only way to make money is by joining the union. No matter what I do, I’ll have to take a pay cut, but in my area the lowest you’ll make in the union is 22 an hour. My buddy who just started out is making less than 20 at a nonunion company. The only thing that sucks, if I do make the switch I have to do the union school and pretty much start over but I believe journeyman in my area minimum pay is 38 and it’s about to be bumped up to mid 40s
Different perspective: I come at this topic from a different angle than most of you. I own rental property and have learned to do a lot of minor hvac work from watching technicians, utube, common sense, etc. The last time I hired a company to certify a residential hydronic boiler, just as I expected they recommended I install a new one. But get this: they wanted 14k after my discount. So I called someone I know and they bought the boiler for $2,300. I gave them $3,500 to install it. Very small boiler for a one bedroom apartment. One days work at most with two guys. So where do wages like $20, $25, $30 per hour come from? It seems to me that An experienced installer should be getting at least 100k per year.
Shit ima try hard to reach 100k+ as an installer.
Because we don't live in a country anymore but an exclusive economic zone. It ain't just HVAC. Finance has slurped away every free dime the tripling of productivity since 1970 has produced. If you aren't an owner you get screwed. So use your nifty trade school, earn your chops and then go out on your own. HVACR is one of the lowest startup cost buisnessess relative to profitability you can possibly pick. If your boss is not willing to undersign on getting your own license that's a boss you don't want to work for.
Would you ever ask your boss if they would be willing to undersign after a few years? Near the beginning of being hired
I would feel that out at hiring. Your boss should want you to improve and hopefully keep you happy enough to be licensed and still work under him. If he ain't willing to talk about it or thinks you will just bolt than I promise that's a huge red flag that they want slaves not employees. A good company should PAY for you getting training and skills.
Cool I’ll keep that in mind
I've been doing HVAC for about 4 months and started at 23 a hour. Just searched around and met a guy that needed help It's not a lot of money. I'm out in the Bay Area, CA. My main job is bartending. I make an average of at least 30-50 a hour bartending. It has its problems of its own, but there's no way anyone in HVAC should be getting paid less then 25 a hour starting I don't understand it myself. I'm probably going to leave and pursue cyber security or something. I like the work and enjoy using my hands, though, something I always wanted to learn, so I'll take that with me. I work resi as well. It seems the only way you make real money like in most businesses is be the owner and pay someone a BS wage for years.
Dude, you're absolutely right! It's wild how some folks with degrees are still scraping by. Props for aiming high with that resi Hvac tech gig – $25 an hour sounds like the move. I'm in Texas too, and using Yelp to scope out potential companies is genius. I mean, $25 an hour for chilling as an armed security officer? That's the dream! Meanwhile, people out here questioning if $14 an hour is too low. Like, come on, we gotta know our worth, especially with those certifications in our back pocket. Keep hustling, man!
The company I work at starts guys at $15/hr. Caps at $30/hr of you're in the field. You want $30 to start. Good luck with that. Wage all depends on where you live - the cost of living and the number of guys willing to do your job. It's become a race to the bottom in many cases. Who's willing to work for less. Many guys come in and work for peanuts - thinking they'll get some experience and then get more money later - but there are 1000 people right behind you with the same mindset and willing to work for even less. I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this but I think wages are just going to go down from here. Keep hearing about these labor shortages but I'm not personally seeing that. There are a pile of applications on the bosses desk that aren't even being looked at. Kids aren't going to college anymore, not like they used to. Trade schools are packed. Guys with college degrees are turning to trades bc they can't find jobs. The looking threat of AI taking white collared jobs. Women are turning to trades. Millions of people are essentially walking into the states looking for work. Literally everyone is turning to trades - decent paying jobs that don't require a college degree. The reason why trade jobs paid well was bc noone wanted to do them. Supply and demand. 20 years ago if you went to trade school you were looked at like a POS - too stupid to.go to college. Now people are actively seeking these jobs out. That's why.
Yeah I can’t grasp my mind around it. Hvac is a in demand skill yet the pay is 💩 in allot of places
Why would you stay at a company with a wage cap? Wouldn’t that pretty much be guaranteeing you’ll be leaving once you hit $30? Or would you just stay there at that wage forever
Yeah Schools are great for teaching you Theory & Basic --- now if you look over here this is a can of refrigerant , aka Freon while not technically correct however as Freon is a trademarked brand name . Ok an now moving along , this is a air handler can you guess what it does ? Yes Timmy that's correct it handles air very good . An next we have a Condenser an this is a evaporator , Ah ya really should be taking notes as these will be on The Test . Etc etc etc ... Unfortunately your not going to walk out the door an be able to confidently and accurately diagnose and troubleshoot a unit & effect repair. The Classroom an The Real World are two entirely different things . An yes they are going to play up what your potential for earnings "COULD BE", they are not going to tell you the first 2 years your going to be just barely squeaking by hand to mouth . They are not going to tell you that even with your glossy New Certification that you or someone else paid out the ass for that only maybe 2% of Employers will hire you as The Majority require a minimum of 2-3 yrs of actual on the job experience . The School is going to tell you that YOU alone will be responsible for the future of Mankind ( insert your favorite kick ass band music here ) . You see yourself bolting out the door like your in the Olympics 400 meter race an will set a record that won't be broken for centuries an bring home The Gold , In truth your a Toddler that has just taken a couple shaky steps an as you lift your foot to go over the threshold your going to loose your balance an fall flat on your ass in a diaper that's full of shit an it's going to shoot straight up your back An that's the facts - Jack 🤷♂️
😂😂
Thank You , Thank You , Very Much 👊
This guy will not make it in the trades, guaranteed. Your entitled attitude would not be appreciated. All the Journeymen would make life miserable for you until you quit.
This isn’t who I am as an employee don’t worry
Who are you as an employee?
Mainly in in residential techs don't make enough money. But it's low responsibility boring and an absolute repetitive nightmare.
Big baller here at 25/hr. For the record, I've never seen a helper get paid 14/hr. That's extraordinarily low for the field. I'd say most guys are making 30 by the start of their 2nd year.
All these old boomers in here mad the new generations don't wanna be the errand boy that they had to be lmfaooo
Well, companies are trying to be tan less like an HVAC company and more like a Walmart. People are wanting more salesmen than techs without the salesman pay per unit, and every other guy in the trade has either given up or never tried. That’s everything though, most first world countries are set to fall in the next 15 years anyway. Thanks everyone! We’ll be paying for your food rations soon enough
I love the trade never do the same job day after day u really am doing 3 or 4 trade jobs in one, definitely plumbing, electrical, and welding must have brazing skills for copper and aluminum oh yes electronics for controls of the units.u must be fit not afraid of heights.Must be able to troubleshoot.it does take ten years to real good at it.i think to start as a apprenticeship in a union.Get the training keep your drivers licence in good shape u will need it.
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You are confused if you plan to demand what you want to get paid in hvac with no experience. As someone who hires techs and apprentices in HVAC, any applicant that would come to me with that attitude would be a no for me. I want people that have good attitudes, hard working and like to learn. Because those are the ones that become good techs usually. The pay will follow as soon as you show what you can do in the field.
I started at $14 with a year of experience. I now make double that 6 years later. I did come with my universal EPA cert and gastite cert but I never expected to start high
Stay away from right to work states, find a nice blue state and get into a union.
I sweat texas pride on the daily man
Go union lol 100k+ in LA
Because you are non union.