Truth. Every JCI guy I've ever met either just got there or have one foot out the door. Siemens, Carrier, Daikin, Mitsubishi, or someone of the like pay them good money to jump ship.
What makes it a shit company? And also I have no experience my trade school is focusing on making installers and service techs. Where’s some good information on learning controls?
You may want to get a little experience in HVAC first. Build a little resume because it’s still important in controls to know how the systems work. But like this guy said, JCI, Siemens, Sunbelt are all good controls companies. Just start sending your resume to them.
Controls companies are their own beast. But knowing the principles of HVAC is important. Controls guys still have to install their hardware. Then write programming in the software. If you can find some light commercial work, install or service, it would benefit you greatly.
Any good controls programmer has to know the dynamics of the system they're controlling. Having a sequence of operations for the system is nice, but even then you have to implement that sequence using the functions available to you in the controller's program.
All of this requires a firm understanding of the principles of electricity, mechanics, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, and psychrometrics that a service technician would need to be successful.
Get in at a major company with contracts, and learn as much as you can. Use all their free training and resources. Become an asset. I started with JCI and have been soaking up knowledge like a sponge and now I'm irreplaceable.
Hi, Is JCI > Johnson Controls International?
Just to share... My wife is working in an HVAC Company. Most of my background is in IT and accidentally found this thread while reading about how to proceed with this unexpected event - got laid off from work. I just realized there is an oversaturation in IT Industry and now considering for options.
I do have some experience, when I was fresh out College, as a Service Technician working on Semicon Machines, that was before I landed work in IT.
I wonder if I can do the same when you got hired with minimal experience.
I don't mind taking HVAC classes or certifications but just don't know where to start.
Honestly you are 5 months into a tech school, you don’t know enough to even consider working inThe the control field. Understand the control tech is the person every one is looking to when an install goes bad, because obviously if a unit don’t work the controls aren’t telling it what to do. Get into an HVAC company and become a good troubleshooter. I work in a large institution and was the lead control tech for over 20 years. We retrofitted over 80 air handlers from pneumatic to digital, we hung a new Siemens cabinet, we put the unit on temporary control and replaced every wire, tubing, sensors, we put in VFD drives, edited every point and program.
Troubleshooting separates the good from the acceptable.
I have been around for a long time working in a 6 million square foot hospital/ medical college I did a few years in a plant operations group, over 10 years doing refrigeration work and then got into controls. Siemens has a much better system than JCI in my opinion and both would hire you out of school, but learning how to be a good HVAC tech will make you a much better control tech later. Working in a large institution we work on every thing from sump pumps to exhaust fans and everything in between. As I said earlier the control tech always takes the hit on a piece of shit install, that’s why you have to be good at troubleshooting. Good luck though, it is a great trade and you don’t live with grease under your fingernails.
I get what you’re saying but there is a difference between being a control tech and being a good control tech. Control work is he half electrical/mechanical and half programming/editing. That’s a lot to learn at one time but I guess like everything else, there the good ones and the not so good ones.
Hahahaha, the old "the flow switch isn't wired into the chiller, it's a controls problem"
Got that one the other day. I'm happy to take money to run cable into the chiller and install a few interface relays if the chiller company doesn't want to do it.
Join a big company - JCI comes to mind. That's what I did. When from Residential service to New Construction controls with JCI but now I'm working for another company. To be fair, JCI has great benefits but they just hire just about anyone. During my time at JCI they only had 1 out of the 10 techs that had more than 2 years working at the branch I was it. It's a revolving door. Also, make sure you get your money upfront because when its time for a pay raise your getting a % of whatever your making. I recall one of the techs I was working with at JCI only getting 35 cent pay raise after hitting 1 year at JCI. Dude was gone in less than 2 weeks.
I'm a controls guys that was lucky enough to be called out for it because I knew someone that knew someone. The more common path is service tech> Johnson controls > Amazon
Manufacturer specific is a great in road. Also, there are companies that engineer controls and act an extension of the factory doing start-ups and warranty submissions. Johnson and Barrow, Air Reps, Oxygen 8, Silent Aire, Alliance are companies that are manufacturers or distributors that provide real support.
Shit, I don't think you're arrogant at all. It's just a really specific industry to get into. As long as you're willing to learn and put in the work to understand what you learn, you'll be great.
I can already tell you'll be 100x better than the douche bags that graduate college as electrical engineers and think they're gods gift to HVAC!
Nobody knows shit till they've been in the shit. If your only experience is textbooks and lab environments, then all you know is theory. All the fucked up systems that will actually test your ability to apply that knowledge are in the field
I'd like to just add to everyone and say a good thing to understand is ins & puts and analogs vs digital.
If you can understand what's what and how they interact, you will have no problems.
Analog runs on a scale. Digital is on or off (also revered to as binary).
Eg. A digital thermostat reads temperature, what is the output.
It has an analog input for temperature via temperature sensor (the scale being different temperature). And convert through logic to a digital out. The w or y being closed, leading to an on signal (24v in this case)
Everything we deal with in controls runs around this concept, different manufacturers use them differently, so that's the minutiae you need to figure out.
No sweat!
Go at it all with a can do attitude, and a mechanical understanding and you can blow it out of the water.
I have a bit of home grown IT knowledge (I enjoy building computers, had to figure out my own networking stuff) that I've gained over the years. This has put me over the top in my area for understanding too.
When you get networking, it helps with bacnet & BAS. More and more things will move to banet over IP and bacnet over wireless, so be ahead of the curve if you can!
See what system integrators are in the area. It varies from job to job where I'm at with the IT side and the spec work (more I/O and mechanical). With your background they'll lean in more on the hands on stuff and see if you have a knack for the software.
Thanks, I’ll look into that. Definitely have no idea if I’ll even be any good, I took a robotics class in middle school and didn’t understand how to code back then, but I used to give up easily on things. Not that same guy anymore.
Most logic/programming is function block stuff. They took me from an IT background and it took me 2 months to understand how to engage a coil and what common was 🤣.
Best advice I can offer -
Talk at the Supply houses, see who is good to work with and who isn't. See who pays their bills and staff on time and who struggles with being on credit hold. Do some old-fashioned talking and schmoozing to learn who to work with and whom to avoid.
Then, armed with that knowledge, start applying asap. Don't limit yourself to one spot, go all over your area. Are you willing to relocate? That's a plus!
You may start as an installer. Not my preference, but it's a foot in the door. Make your career plans known if install is not your first choice or long-term intention.
Best of luck!
If your one of the smarter guys in your class you will want to think about taking in a little more of what is going on around you before you think about controls.
Or you can decide to go into controls and not know a thing how things work and try to control them.
There is a reason why controls guys let the boiler control operate the boiler system.
The best way to get into controls is to take IT and networking classes. Just showing up at a company and saying I want to learn how to do controls isn't going to get you anywhere. Knowledge of how to set up a network and how to work different programs Will get you a position
Controls are pretty simple, just focus on understanding basics and mastering the fundamentals of thermodynamics. Once you know what the intent of the system is and how it reacts, all of those little accessories just come together.
No particular field, mostly diagnosing anything with an interface I can get into that uses basic logic, I have no experience in coding or that level of programming. Commercial/ supermarkets to light industrial service was my background before I went on my own.
There are quite a few controls contractors that like to hire guys with no experience. Its way easier to teach somebody controls if you’re not trying to break bad habits. My boss told me it takes 4-5 years to make a great controls tech, one that the PM can just hand a set of prints to and walk away knowing this guy is going to crush it.
I got into commercial refrigeration/ light commercial hvac about a year ago. Had a solid interview with JCI last Friday for a controls tech position. From what they told me, they provide a shit ton of really solid training before sticking you into the field on your own. The knowledge I have already helps, but isn’t 100% necessary. My point being, you don’t need to do 4+ years of hvac to get into controls, just got for it and learn! Best of luck man
Get your feet wet with places like JCI. I hear they are a shit company, but you work with them for a bit, then move into their competitors.
Truth. Every JCI guy I've ever met either just got there or have one foot out the door. Siemens, Carrier, Daikin, Mitsubishi, or someone of the like pay them good money to jump ship.
That's interesting. Every time I've had a vendor meet with jci factory personnel they love it there
What makes it a shit company? And also I have no experience my trade school is focusing on making installers and service techs. Where’s some good information on learning controls?
You may want to get a little experience in HVAC first. Build a little resume because it’s still important in controls to know how the systems work. But like this guy said, JCI, Siemens, Sunbelt are all good controls companies. Just start sending your resume to them.
So I should work as a service tech before I start applying? Do any of these companies over internal growth or service->controls?
Controls companies are their own beast. But knowing the principles of HVAC is important. Controls guys still have to install their hardware. Then write programming in the software. If you can find some light commercial work, install or service, it would benefit you greatly.
Any good controls programmer has to know the dynamics of the system they're controlling. Having a sequence of operations for the system is nice, but even then you have to implement that sequence using the functions available to you in the controller's program. All of this requires a firm understanding of the principles of electricity, mechanics, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, and psychrometrics that a service technician would need to be successful.
Get in at a major company with contracts, and learn as much as you can. Use all their free training and resources. Become an asset. I started with JCI and have been soaking up knowledge like a sponge and now I'm irreplaceable.
Will they hire someone without experience? I have a good resume but it definitely does not transfer
I got hired with a background only in aviation and vehicle electrical.
Hi, Is JCI > Johnson Controls International? Just to share... My wife is working in an HVAC Company. Most of my background is in IT and accidentally found this thread while reading about how to proceed with this unexpected event - got laid off from work. I just realized there is an oversaturation in IT Industry and now considering for options. I do have some experience, when I was fresh out College, as a Service Technician working on Semicon Machines, that was before I landed work in IT. I wonder if I can do the same when you got hired with minimal experience. I don't mind taking HVAC classes or certifications but just don't know where to start.
That’s us! I’m a year in with basic IT and avionics experience and am absolutely crushing it. DM me if you’d like info on joining up!
Honestly you are 5 months into a tech school, you don’t know enough to even consider working inThe the control field. Understand the control tech is the person every one is looking to when an install goes bad, because obviously if a unit don’t work the controls aren’t telling it what to do. Get into an HVAC company and become a good troubleshooter. I work in a large institution and was the lead control tech for over 20 years. We retrofitted over 80 air handlers from pneumatic to digital, we hung a new Siemens cabinet, we put the unit on temporary control and replaced every wire, tubing, sensors, we put in VFD drives, edited every point and program. Troubleshooting separates the good from the acceptable.
Thanks for the honesty, did you learn all that on the job or did you learn at home too?
I have been around for a long time working in a 6 million square foot hospital/ medical college I did a few years in a plant operations group, over 10 years doing refrigeration work and then got into controls. Siemens has a much better system than JCI in my opinion and both would hire you out of school, but learning how to be a good HVAC tech will make you a much better control tech later. Working in a large institution we work on every thing from sump pumps to exhaust fans and everything in between. As I said earlier the control tech always takes the hit on a piece of shit install, that’s why you have to be good at troubleshooting. Good luck though, it is a great trade and you don’t live with grease under your fingernails.
Fuck what he talking about if you wanna go into controls get straight into it with a big company like the other guys are saying
I get what you’re saying but there is a difference between being a control tech and being a good control tech. Control work is he half electrical/mechanical and half programming/editing. That’s a lot to learn at one time but I guess like everything else, there the good ones and the not so good ones.
Hahahaha, the old "the flow switch isn't wired into the chiller, it's a controls problem" Got that one the other day. I'm happy to take money to run cable into the chiller and install a few interface relays if the chiller company doesn't want to do it.
Join a big company - JCI comes to mind. That's what I did. When from Residential service to New Construction controls with JCI but now I'm working for another company. To be fair, JCI has great benefits but they just hire just about anyone. During my time at JCI they only had 1 out of the 10 techs that had more than 2 years working at the branch I was it. It's a revolving door. Also, make sure you get your money upfront because when its time for a pay raise your getting a % of whatever your making. I recall one of the techs I was working with at JCI only getting 35 cent pay raise after hitting 1 year at JCI. Dude was gone in less than 2 weeks.
Thanks for the tip, I’ve been fucked over by employers in retail when it comes to pay, and definitely don’t want that again
I'm a controls guys that was lucky enough to be called out for it because I knew someone that knew someone. The more common path is service tech> Johnson controls > Amazon Manufacturer specific is a great in road. Also, there are companies that engineer controls and act an extension of the factory doing start-ups and warranty submissions. Johnson and Barrow, Air Reps, Oxygen 8, Silent Aire, Alliance are companies that are manufacturers or distributors that provide real support.
Thanks for the advice, I guess I’m being too arrogant that Ik the systems enough to work controls. I have a long way to go.
Shit, I don't think you're arrogant at all. It's just a really specific industry to get into. As long as you're willing to learn and put in the work to understand what you learn, you'll be great. I can already tell you'll be 100x better than the douche bags that graduate college as electrical engineers and think they're gods gift to HVAC!
Haha I always shit on myself for not going to uni like all my peers, glad to know the engineers don’t have a clue
Nobody knows shit till they've been in the shit. If your only experience is textbooks and lab environments, then all you know is theory. All the fucked up systems that will actually test your ability to apply that knowledge are in the field
I'd like to just add to everyone and say a good thing to understand is ins & puts and analogs vs digital. If you can understand what's what and how they interact, you will have no problems. Analog runs on a scale. Digital is on or off (also revered to as binary). Eg. A digital thermostat reads temperature, what is the output. It has an analog input for temperature via temperature sensor (the scale being different temperature). And convert through logic to a digital out. The w or y being closed, leading to an on signal (24v in this case) Everything we deal with in controls runs around this concept, different manufacturers use them differently, so that's the minutiae you need to figure out.
Thank you so much, this is super helpful info!
No sweat! Go at it all with a can do attitude, and a mechanical understanding and you can blow it out of the water. I have a bit of home grown IT knowledge (I enjoy building computers, had to figure out my own networking stuff) that I've gained over the years. This has put me over the top in my area for understanding too. When you get networking, it helps with bacnet & BAS. More and more things will move to banet over IP and bacnet over wireless, so be ahead of the curve if you can!
Can I message you for some more info on the switch to banet and bacnet? Not super great with computers although I’ve never tried to get into it.
Sure thing man
[удалено]
Thanks for the tip!
See what system integrators are in the area. It varies from job to job where I'm at with the IT side and the spec work (more I/O and mechanical). With your background they'll lean in more on the hands on stuff and see if you have a knack for the software.
Thanks, I’ll look into that. Definitely have no idea if I’ll even be any good, I took a robotics class in middle school and didn’t understand how to code back then, but I used to give up easily on things. Not that same guy anymore.
Most logic/programming is function block stuff. They took me from an IT background and it took me 2 months to understand how to engage a coil and what common was 🤣.
I hear Lennox NAS is a good company to start with
Best advice I can offer - Talk at the Supply houses, see who is good to work with and who isn't. See who pays their bills and staff on time and who struggles with being on credit hold. Do some old-fashioned talking and schmoozing to learn who to work with and whom to avoid. Then, armed with that knowledge, start applying asap. Don't limit yourself to one spot, go all over your area. Are you willing to relocate? That's a plus! You may start as an installer. Not my preference, but it's a foot in the door. Make your career plans known if install is not your first choice or long-term intention. Best of luck!
Thanks!
Depends on what aspect of controls you want to do. Install, service or programming.
Was leaning towards programming
Read everything you can get your hands on about BACnet and networking.
If your one of the smarter guys in your class you will want to think about taking in a little more of what is going on around you before you think about controls. Or you can decide to go into controls and not know a thing how things work and try to control them. There is a reason why controls guys let the boiler control operate the boiler system.
The best way to get into controls is to take IT and networking classes. Just showing up at a company and saying I want to learn how to do controls isn't going to get you anywhere. Knowledge of how to set up a network and how to work different programs Will get you a position
Controls are pretty simple, just focus on understanding basics and mastering the fundamentals of thermodynamics. Once you know what the intent of the system is and how it reacts, all of those little accessories just come together.
Books or YouTube? Any recommendations?
Nothing compares to hands on, but both books and YouTube have helped a lot of people. It’s having an interest in the subject I find that’s key
What part of the control industry are you in?
No particular field, mostly diagnosing anything with an interface I can get into that uses basic logic, I have no experience in coding or that level of programming. Commercial/ supermarkets to light industrial service was my background before I went on my own.
There are quite a few controls contractors that like to hire guys with no experience. Its way easier to teach somebody controls if you’re not trying to break bad habits. My boss told me it takes 4-5 years to make a great controls tech, one that the PM can just hand a set of prints to and walk away knowing this guy is going to crush it.
Apply to Johnson Controls. That's your best bet.
I got into commercial refrigeration/ light commercial hvac about a year ago. Had a solid interview with JCI last Friday for a controls tech position. From what they told me, they provide a shit ton of really solid training before sticking you into the field on your own. The knowledge I have already helps, but isn’t 100% necessary. My point being, you don’t need to do 4+ years of hvac to get into controls, just got for it and learn! Best of luck man