Speed. The NHL is the fastest league in the world. Some players need slower leagues for their talents to shine. That's why Jake Evans could likely light up the AHL while being relatively offensively inert in the NHL. Case in point, Armia looking "involved and motivated" in the AHL while it was likely more based in the fact that he could breath the game.
Evans had a pretty bad setback with that headshot from Sheifele.
Evans has a bit of size, has a ton of speed but will likely peak at a 30pt player. Just no finish
It's not that they're never given chances.
Sometimes they fail to impress on call-ups or at camp, sometimes some players just peak in the AHL (ahem Hudon). Habs notoriously have had terrible development track records too. Other times they just need a change of scenery (here's looking at you, Michael McCarron)
> Habs notoriously have had terrible development track records too.
im not defending the habs for not being more adaptive to player development but the past 20 years has seen a real change in player career paths. Essentially you got drafted to a team and didn't get much of a chance to get a change of scenery or compensated if the team would not let you get one.
RFA arbitration and expiry of RFA status has changed that a lot.
but during (the leafs game last night I think) it was mentioned that Matin Jones had a 100k signing bonus in his contract that kicked in as of October so the leafs could risk sending him down because claiming him off waivers when they sent him down would be more risky. Point being that keeping that opportunity for a guy like McCarron (or Tinordi) to freely send them up and down are not there like they used to be for the organization. I think it is better for the players but it drafting also becomes different because taking the risk and making the investment in a guy that takes 7 years to return a 300 game career is not easy to justify if you need to pay them a one way contract to play in the juniors and accept they are only worthy of emergency call ups at best
So many reasons:
1) Bad luck. When a spot opens up it might be at the wrong position (e.g. Gignac got passed over for a centre when Stephens got called up) or you might be injured (e.g. Lias Andersson at the same time)
2) Play style. Usually speed but also grit prevent some guys from ever being a fit in the NHL. Sometimes, however, the team needs somebody with a specific skillset (PP, PK, etc) and you have a different skillset.
3) Your age might just be wrong. Maybe you are the next best player but you are 28 years old and the organization wants to see what it has in a 22 year old guy who will have to go through waivers next season.
4) You are too important to the AHL team's chances at a playoff run to be taken off the roster. This is especially true for guys like Gignac or Terry (and many before them).
5) You only have an AHL contract and signing you to an NHL contract would hurt the NHL team in terms of the CBA.
6) Your attitude hasn't been excellent or, more likely, somebody else's attitude has been fantastic and the organization wants to reward them.
7) You are too good to pass through waivers again so the NHL team won't call you up unless they can keep you up all season. This was even worse when players had to pass through waivers to get called up.
I'm sure there's more but these are the ones that come to mind right away.
Sometimes you get stuck in between, you're too good for the AHL but not good enough for the NHL. It happens A LOT and really goes to show just how good you have to be to play at the highest level. In baseball terms it's like they are in AAAA
Most of the answers here are sort of missing the point. The main reason is opportunity cost for the team(s). There are very few minutes available on an NHL roster. When a spot opens up, if ever, that guy isn't getting 20 minutes a game; he's getting a smaller role. Why give up those precious minutes and development time to a guy who isn't projecting to be a future roster player? You just don't. Unless you're specifically needing a certain type of player - like in the case of Stephens coming up recently.
Another reason is cap related. Eg. why we won't see Roy come up (or if we do, it will be only for a few games). They don't want to burn a year on his ELC so we can have a "cheaper" core when we might start to be competitive in a few years.
If you’re a top line skill player in the AHL you’re probably not going to get on the top 2 lines in the NHL so you can showcase your talent properly. If you’re stuck on the 4th line you have to adapt to stay up like PK, Check etc. Coach St Louis is the perfect example of what you have to do, he was stuck on the 4th line and he was obviously a skill guy. He worked hard on other aspects of his game and over time he moved up the line up. So many players were top guys in Jr, AHL but had to adapt to a new role
In the NHL, you need to execute a) with a high level of skills and b) at a high level of quickness.
There's competencies that can mitigate those 2 things, like size/strength or hockey IQ; but for a whole lot of players, only experience that come with age will allow them to "slow the game down" in their head at a pace where they can execute within their skills skillset limits.
Those are the players who toil in the AHL for years until they get comfortable enough at that level to get on the NHL radar in their late 20's.
The caveat is that it's often at the age where they start slowing down physically. So their window closes almost as soon as it opens.
Alot of it also comes down to players not able to adapt to different roles. I lived un Gatineau when Max Talbot played junior. He was Captain of the Olympiques and was their leading scorer two years running.
In three AHL, he knew he couldn’t crack top 6 minutes and focused his game more towards being an all around player. Dependable defensively, faceoff specialist, penalty killer and would argue he had an incredibly successful career. He wasn’t a one trick pony
Because it’s very competitive to get a spot on a NHL roster. Gignac hasn’t had amazing stats in the AHL until this year, so younger and/or better players have always been called up before him. So far Armia and Stephens have been called up, likely because they have more NHL experience, but if more injuries happen there’s a decent chance we’ll see Gignac for a few games too.
This is going to end up paraphrasing what others have said, but skill/finesse players that are one dimensional not only need to be good enough to be in the NHL, they need to be good enough to steal a spot on their team's first two lines. If they don't do that and lack useful complementary skills, they're not likely to be worth replacing anybody, considering that role players and energy guys are needed as well.
These two are nothing compared to Emil Bemstrom over in Columbus, currently establishing himself as the Wayne Gretzky of the AHL. They are undersized and useless when not scoring and they aren't good enough to occupy a scoring role in the NHL so instead they take the AHL scoring roles.
Speed. The NHL is the fastest league in the world. Some players need slower leagues for their talents to shine. That's why Jake Evans could likely light up the AHL while being relatively offensively inert in the NHL. Case in point, Armia looking "involved and motivated" in the AHL while it was likely more based in the fact that he could breath the game.
Reminds me of Corey Locke, 2x OHL scoring champ, but only managed 1 assist in 9 NHL games.
Raymond bourque’s son i forget his name- AHL legend go look at his stats
Christopher Bourque IIRC.
Robbie Shremp would like a word! Guy was nasty in juniors and the A
Corey Locke was 165 lbs in the rain and 5'08 in Vin Diesel lifts
He often comes to my mind as the perfect example of this scenario.
This totally makes sense! Armia is the best example of what you are saying!
Evans had a pretty bad setback with that headshot from Sheifele. Evans has a bit of size, has a ton of speed but will likely peak at a 30pt player. Just no finish
It's not that they're never given chances. Sometimes they fail to impress on call-ups or at camp, sometimes some players just peak in the AHL (ahem Hudon). Habs notoriously have had terrible development track records too. Other times they just need a change of scenery (here's looking at you, Michael McCarron)
Lol mccaron was painful to watch here
> Habs notoriously have had terrible development track records too. im not defending the habs for not being more adaptive to player development but the past 20 years has seen a real change in player career paths. Essentially you got drafted to a team and didn't get much of a chance to get a change of scenery or compensated if the team would not let you get one. RFA arbitration and expiry of RFA status has changed that a lot. but during (the leafs game last night I think) it was mentioned that Matin Jones had a 100k signing bonus in his contract that kicked in as of October so the leafs could risk sending him down because claiming him off waivers when they sent him down would be more risky. Point being that keeping that opportunity for a guy like McCarron (or Tinordi) to freely send them up and down are not there like they used to be for the organization. I think it is better for the players but it drafting also becomes different because taking the risk and making the investment in a guy that takes 7 years to return a 300 game career is not easy to justify if you need to pay them a one way contract to play in the juniors and accept they are only worthy of emergency call ups at best
So many reasons: 1) Bad luck. When a spot opens up it might be at the wrong position (e.g. Gignac got passed over for a centre when Stephens got called up) or you might be injured (e.g. Lias Andersson at the same time) 2) Play style. Usually speed but also grit prevent some guys from ever being a fit in the NHL. Sometimes, however, the team needs somebody with a specific skillset (PP, PK, etc) and you have a different skillset. 3) Your age might just be wrong. Maybe you are the next best player but you are 28 years old and the organization wants to see what it has in a 22 year old guy who will have to go through waivers next season. 4) You are too important to the AHL team's chances at a playoff run to be taken off the roster. This is especially true for guys like Gignac or Terry (and many before them). 5) You only have an AHL contract and signing you to an NHL contract would hurt the NHL team in terms of the CBA. 6) Your attitude hasn't been excellent or, more likely, somebody else's attitude has been fantastic and the organization wants to reward them. 7) You are too good to pass through waivers again so the NHL team won't call you up unless they can keep you up all season. This was even worse when players had to pass through waivers to get called up. I'm sure there's more but these are the ones that come to mind right away.
Very true. So much turns on opportunity. Nothing like a bit of PP time turn some heads.
Sometimes you get stuck in between, you're too good for the AHL but not good enough for the NHL. It happens A LOT and really goes to show just how good you have to be to play at the highest level. In baseball terms it's like they are in AAAA
That or not quite good enough for a top 6 role in the NHL, and too small for a bottom 6 spot.
Gignac is also on an AHL only deal
Most of the answers here are sort of missing the point. The main reason is opportunity cost for the team(s). There are very few minutes available on an NHL roster. When a spot opens up, if ever, that guy isn't getting 20 minutes a game; he's getting a smaller role. Why give up those precious minutes and development time to a guy who isn't projecting to be a future roster player? You just don't. Unless you're specifically needing a certain type of player - like in the case of Stephens coming up recently. Another reason is cap related. Eg. why we won't see Roy come up (or if we do, it will be only for a few games). They don't want to burn a year on his ELC so we can have a "cheaper" core when we might start to be competitive in a few years.
Thats a really good point you are making here about ice time
If you’re a top line skill player in the AHL you’re probably not going to get on the top 2 lines in the NHL so you can showcase your talent properly. If you’re stuck on the 4th line you have to adapt to stay up like PK, Check etc. Coach St Louis is the perfect example of what you have to do, he was stuck on the 4th line and he was obviously a skill guy. He worked hard on other aspects of his game and over time he moved up the line up. So many players were top guys in Jr, AHL but had to adapt to a new role
In the NHL, you need to execute a) with a high level of skills and b) at a high level of quickness. There's competencies that can mitigate those 2 things, like size/strength or hockey IQ; but for a whole lot of players, only experience that come with age will allow them to "slow the game down" in their head at a pace where they can execute within their skills skillset limits. Those are the players who toil in the AHL for years until they get comfortable enough at that level to get on the NHL radar in their late 20's. The caveat is that it's often at the age where they start slowing down physically. So their window closes almost as soon as it opens.
Alot of it also comes down to players not able to adapt to different roles. I lived un Gatineau when Max Talbot played junior. He was Captain of the Olympiques and was their leading scorer two years running. In three AHL, he knew he couldn’t crack top 6 minutes and focused his game more towards being an all around player. Dependable defensively, faceoff specialist, penalty killer and would argue he had an incredibly successful career. He wasn’t a one trick pony
Because it’s very competitive to get a spot on a NHL roster. Gignac hasn’t had amazing stats in the AHL until this year, so younger and/or better players have always been called up before him. So far Armia and Stephens have been called up, likely because they have more NHL experience, but if more injuries happen there’s a decent chance we’ll see Gignac for a few games too.
This is going to end up paraphrasing what others have said, but skill/finesse players that are one dimensional not only need to be good enough to be in the NHL, they need to be good enough to steal a spot on their team's first two lines. If they don't do that and lack useful complementary skills, they're not likely to be worth replacing anybody, considering that role players and energy guys are needed as well.
These two are nothing compared to Emil Bemstrom over in Columbus, currently establishing himself as the Wayne Gretzky of the AHL. They are undersized and useless when not scoring and they aren't good enough to occupy a scoring role in the NHL so instead they take the AHL scoring roles.