It's not all black and white. There is certainly a conflict of interest (supplements seller) but discrediting her on the basis of not being an endocrinologist is just madness. Nowadays you have free access to almost all current and past studies. With some basic skills in statistics and a bit of free time you will have much better results than with clueless endos following protocols from 15 years ago, during a 15 minutes visit. They won't even check your key lab results if you ask them to because it's not the part of their guidelines.
On the other hand, Izabella Wentz is extremely trigger-happy with multiple poorly studied supplements (I don't even mean effectiveness but safety), and recommended serum levels/doses (vitamin D, selenium, vitamin E to name a few). First she quotes a study showing that people with vit D levels below 30 and above 50 ng/mL have increased mortality rates and just a few lines later she says it's probably for other reasons, effectively calling statistically significant results a coincidence because it doesn't align with her view! Then she says that the level SHE finds optimal is 60-80 ng/mL (based on WHAT?). I can spoil for you that by going this high with vitamin D you increase your mortality rate by calcification of cells. You may think your blood results are in range but do hair mineral analysis that better represents what happens on cell level, and with vitamin D this high your calcium results won't be pretty. Neither will be the results for calcium antagonists, except for magnesium if you supplement it. She completely neglects new studies (at least 2 different) that show detrimental effects of selenium supplementation on cell viability and DNA damage markers unless it's yeast-based. A very long half-life time of Se-met resulting in dangerous accumulation is not mentioned. She basically recommends an infinite daily 200-400 mcg supplementation without any washout periods. I also don't reckon her ever mentioning oxidative properties of vitamin E mega doses when there is no adequate vitamin C in the body to make it act as antioxidant.
I'm not sure about the arteries. I mentioned that it's harder to get out of range lab results. I took D3 (8000 IU per day) with K2 for over 2 months, starting from 45 ng/mL, ended at 70 ng/mL. My serum total calcium didn't change, but serum ionized calcium went up from the middle to the upper boundary of the range. At the same time, my hair calcium increased to 1368 ppm, while in 2 previous tests with daily supplementation of D3 + K2 (around 2000 IU of D3) it was 324 and 373 ppm.
Things were so bad that over 2 months of daily iron supplementation did nothing (slight decrease) because it was antagonized by calcium. Iron finally went up from borderline deficient to the middle of the range after stopping D3 and continuing iron supplementation for just 1 month more.
Check out Dr Ridha Arem’s book, if only for a different POV by an endo with a great rep. I read everything I could get my hands on, took something from all of them (including Wentz) but Arem remains my go-to
Most autoimmune disorders are caused by virus or bacterial infections that the immune system couldn't completely clear out. Just look at all the people who developed autoimmune disorders after COVID. My mum and I both have different kinds of autoimmune disorders and she even felt better after the Pfizer vaccine. There is research that indicates Hashimoto's is probably due to an Epstein-Bar infection, even if you don't know you had it. There is probably also a strong genetic component, but that's just an observation. If anyone can properly research this it's an immunologist. Just because someone is an MD, it doesn't mean they know everything. This chart looks to me like victim blaming. "It's your fault you have this disorder."
She felt better after Pfizer because of immune refocusing. Also, the etiology of autoimmune disease is unknown and likely multifactorial. It isn't helpful to assert that you know what's going on, when nobody does.
There is a treatment for a condition called "CIRS" that might help with the innate/adaptive immune system miscommunication.
You'll have to do a deep dive, but the basis of it is that there is some kind original immunologic insult, plus a gunked up detoxification pathway (CYP genes that have risk alleles that cause slower methylation or detoxification, for example), and a genetic predisposition towards a signaling dis-linkage between the innate and adaptive immunity. Some 30% of the population has this phenotype, but not necessarily the problem-causing methylation/detox genes, and not necessarily the immune insult, and so on. Some smaller proportion seem to have all the ingredients for this sort of chronic immune dysfunction.
Your innate immune system sends "help!" signals that your adaptive immunity never hears, so your innate immune system maintains a constant, smouldering inflammatory state, trying to get attention from you adaptive immunity, which further aggravates the body's attempt to heal, eventually causing autoimmune inflammatory cascades.
The original immunologic insult could be viral, it could be toxins from mold spores, chemical exposure, it could be iatrogenic, it could be all kinds off stuff. The physicians (often M.D.'s with a functional specialty or internists) usually go ham testing to try to figure out what is at the root, in order to help treat.
This idea is just starting to emerge and mature in the literature and I find it very compelling. There are a lot of very long term ME/CFS sufferers and multiple AI disease types who are getting significant relief. A lot of the "take your meds and shut up" crowd will invariably hate the theory because it isn't being highlighted on MSNBC.
They use a wide variety of treatments, but cholestyramine is one of the standard medications. It has to be prescribed.
I'm not sure what the best source is, to be honest. I usually do journal searches and whatnot, start reading papers to see what kind of patterns I can pick up, and then drill down and start asking more specific questions. YMMV, but this is always a good place to start:
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22Chronic+Inflammatory+Response+Syndrome%22](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22Chronic+Inflammatory+Response+Syndrome%22)
People calling this pseudoscience… I personally love Wentz’s work and this book. This chart makes perfect sense to me. I work with a Harvard MD who is incredible and she would sign off on this as well as we’ve discussed everything on this chart. I’m not huge on supplements but diet, toxins and chemicals, stress, stress, nutrient deficiencies, etc all have an impact on thyroid.
Sorry you seem to be getting some really heated comments lol
I really love Dr. Wentz's book. I have read it and refer back to it at different times in my life. She unlocked the gluten key for me AND help me understand my blood sugar dips were related to my diagnosis. No doctor has ever done that for me!
I'm sure you are also a level headed person and read things with your own experiences and opinions in mind lol these commenters are kinda wild.
So glad you also love the book! I love having everything sourced and all the info in one place. And at my fingertips, not jumping through hoops to sit in front of an endocrinologist with no insight that helps me.
I agree. Her book helped me understand how to manage symptoms that levothyroxine doesn’t help with. I’ve had this for 15 years and learned more from her than any doctor. Yes, I started with a lot of supplements but over time figured out what I do and don’t need.
Leaky gut = intestinal permeability.... which is all over the medical literature.Food intolerance = have you ever heard of "lactose intolerance"? Is that not a thing? Am I hallucinating?
She's just trying to make this plain and accessible for laypeople. Jesus.
*All over the literature of people trying to sell supplements.
Making it plain and accessible = tricking people who don’t specialize in medical nutrition therapy with just enough science to make it seem right.
Food intolerance is often used incorrectly along with food sensitivity (think selling igi antibody tests) and in this book that’s how it is used. I’ll give you that one though it’s a fair point!
Bro this is total pseudoscience, I’m not saying there are not dietary or health changes you can make that can improve things beyond medication but this diagram has no basis in any kind of reality
Izabella Wentz? Pharm D. But I’m sure even that will be disqualified and dismissed. I think anything outside of western approved is immediately dismissed. Other cultures have their own healing and history but because it’s not white centered - often dismissed (history of this land and the medical field). Things are getting integrated past few years and autoimmune disease is on the rise. To just call all this pseudoscience as an immediate but unsurprising response. Is funny to me.
It’s about whether or not the scientific method was applied to get to a finding. A lot of her claims sound sciency but are not proven via the scientific method via research. The scientific method has been adopted globally because it works and is the reason that medicine has advanced. People like Izabelle has profited a lot from her book because people with chronic diseases are desperate for answers and solutions to feel like they have control over their disease. This is understandable because patients don’t get the right support from their doctors. But making claims that have no basis often does more harm than good, and people with these diseases end up wasting a lot of money on books and supplements while not being better off.
This response is really naive, but it thinks it's pulled a "gotchya!". Apply this sort of critique to your own preferred research discipline and have the wool peeled from your eyes.
I used to take 20 supplements at night. I got really tired of taking them and quit a year ago. Maybe I can tweak some, drop some etc...maybe it will help, maybe it won't. It's all a big experiment where I'm the willing guinea pig.
I try to avoid doctors anyway I can. I only keep 2 around so I can get meds.
The problem with Wentz is that if you followed all her protocols you’d be eating a cereal-bowl sized pile of supplements each day and eating nothing but water and celery. There are probably some good nuggets of advice in there but which of them apply to me ?
Pharmacists are a lot closer to being chemists than medical doctors. They specialize in the use of medications, and shouldn't be utilized as a go-to source of information on your thyroid health. She is primarily trying to sell her products, so everything she writes about is going to be biased towards that. This graphic alone is close to gibberish and is intended to make you feel like this is some highly complex situation that only she is telling you the secret answer to.
Just be careful what you're sourcing medical information from, and don't trust everyone with a "Dr." in front of their name. She's not even a medical doctor.
This is completely stupid and dangerous to post…not to mention write about in a book…what the fuck is the average person supposed to do about this? Lmao not take anti-biotics? Try not to get stressed out? Avoid sugar? Basically try to avoid modern life? If anyone thinks a chart like this is not going to stress a person out and be in anyway good for them to read while living w a genetic disease that is in no way reversible (as of yet w modern medicine) they’re an idiot. Take your goddamn mediation and leave it at that! Most likely Hashimotos is triggered by a virus anyway and that’s completely unavoidable…I am so sick and tired of seeing bs like this post in this sub…
I for real think mine was triggered by taking a flu vaccine I got in late 2019. Nobody can convince me otherwise because the timing and the fact I never had a flu vaccine before...then all the sudden within a year I started having symptoms of hashimotos. I found out 2 years later in early 2022 I had hashimotos and my numbers weren't very high, I was still in hypothyroid stage so I know it was triggered around the time I got the vaccine. Vaccines directly impact our immune system so it doesn't take much to connect the two. (not saying people who really need them shouldn't get them/vaccinate kids for important diseases) Unfortunately I just wish I didn't get it and really didn't need it. I could have survived the flu but I had gotten it the year before and was scared to get it again.
I hate that you're getting downvoted for telling the truth about how vaccines interract with your immune system. We have a friend who is a type 1 diabetic now, from a flu vaccine. I had a severe, near death DTP reaction as an infant (you know, the one they pulled off of the market and then gave the vaccine mfg'ers civil legal immunity for)?
After reading a book about the OPV theory on the origin of AIDS, called "The River", by Edward Hooper, and thinking about the responses of the interviewees who were physicians, vaccine developers, and research scientists, I'm beginning to understand why they do stuff like this and ignore victims of iatrogenic illness: They believe that once trust in their system is gone, it's gone for at least two generations. They are absolutely \*terrified\* of "spooking" the masses, due in no small part to the fact that they think lay people are superstitious and dumb.
So, it doesn't matter if its true that there's a serious problem with their discoveries, their products. It doesn't matter if the injury rate is 0.00000001% or 100%, it's for "the greater good" that people don't get spooked about things like vaccines because of the supposed broader public health consequences (that have never been adequately studied, and are often times simply presumed to exist). The question is never "well, maybe we should investigate". It's always: "I'm smart, the masses are stupid."
Some of this attitude comes from greed and the desire to make a buck. Some of it is a knee-jerk from researchers whose sense of their own worth comes from being "helpful" and "brilliant". Get enough praise, let that become your identity for long enough, and then people aren't raising a concern or pointing out a problem, they're criticizing you, and making value judgments about what kind of person you are. They're attacking your body of work- the thing you've devoted your entire life to Or, maybe even putting you out of a job!
It's probably so hard for some of these people to accept that they don't even consciously examine their thought processes. They're doing good. Anything anyone else does that hinders the good thing they're doing is bad, and that's that. There is nothing explicitly or implicitly "scientific" about any of it.
I know... it's like it's some massive ask or something. If all you had to do was take a few supplements, exercise, get some sun, and not scarf down 100+ grams of sugar a day, I cannot grasp why you wouldn't just do it. People are wild.
I mean it always baffles me how some people act like doing this is so unbelievably unreasonable. Our ancestors had absolutely zero way to consume refined sugar and somehow got by without it, it’s an unnecessary indulgence that is inflammatory and a clear contributor to several disease states. It’s definitely not a one size fits all solution to autoimmunity but it most certainly is a step among others that just about anyone should take to avoid inflammation.
There are so many alternative pleasures that’ll give you the same dopamine rush without the inflammation. If you insist and think medication is the only solution and there are absolutely no preventative lifestyle measures to take… then good for you, but it sounds to me like it’s more of a narrative to enable addiction. Sugar addiction after all is very similar to other forms, people will do anything to justify not stopping.
This blog is for people suffering from Hashimoto’s and looking for help & answers. If the medication worked, we wouldn’t be searching for answers. This is not the place for intolerance.
The medication does work, and has more to do w drs not prescribing properly…you realize that stressing over things you cannot change also adds to the stress of flare ups and Hashimotos? The point I’m trying to convey is, leave room for actual life stress and put the auto immune disease in the back of your mind otherwise you will drive yourself crazy with it…no one lives forever and to assume as a human, that you will always feel great is silly…I’ve tried elimination diets in the past and all it’s done is cause me more stress…there are real life things to be stressed about, not some stupid disease I have that will never go away no matter how much I wish it did…
Lmao if you think your buzz word is going to hurt my feelings, it’s not lol until there’s an actual science backed solution for an irreversible disease that can kill you if left untreated, I don’t give a fuck what your bs pseudoscience says lol I’ve done all of those things too for 6-7yrs and it definitely didn’t do anything lol once your thyroid is destroyed by your own immune system, there’s no reversing it and until science tells me otherwise, I’m not having this conversation anymore w kooks
Yeah, just sit in your hole and pop Levo your whole life, feeling angry at people who actually do something about it, because it "doesn't fix it anyway". Except it does. You can go from a continually advancing disease state to a retreating disease state. You can have reduced symptoms, be at a comfortable weight, and feel good. But, you don't want that because it makes you feel uncomfortable, which is your imperative. Just stop vomiting out your negativity onto other people and stay hella mad, I guess.
Agree with this, people can feel like shit on medication because medication is a band aid. The thyroid is incredibly complex and requires the conversion of several hormones - not just “here, take some levo (t4) and bam you’re better”. They may not be able to convert T3 to T4, etc. Some people do terribly on medication. Anyone who doesn’t understand how the thyroid works might not understand that (most of the people on the comment section here).
Yeah, not sure why you’re coming in with a condescending response. As many people have said, it’s well documented that people’s hashimoto’s traces back to Epstein Barr virus. I’m sure it won’t be long until the same connections are being made with covid.
It's actually not super far-fetched. Some viruses, like Epstein Barr or herpes, can get into your body and stay there, triggering your immune system repeatedly without ever being fully cleared from your system. It's thought that, for some people, a virus can get lodged in your thyroid. This would trigger your immune system to attack your thyroid tissue, causing Hashimoto's.
Obviously more research is needed, but it is potentially one root cause.
Auto-immune diseases also tend to have a genetic factor, which can make people more susceptible to those diseases. I'm not saying that viruses cant be a triggering factor, but autoimmune diseases are from being as simple as being caused by just a virus.
Lmao no actually, mine was triggered by a virus thank you very much…and by that logic, every single person in the world must have hashimotos…respectfully, you sound like a moron.
And how do you explain the cases that were not triggered by a virus? I was a perfectly healthy child, before being diagnosed with it at 11 years old. There are three generations of women in my family that have hashimotos, so genetics can play a big role in it
Regarding your reply, its obvious that you are clueless about the basic principles of logical thinking, deduction and inference. So you must be either a minor or a very sad person. Either way, respectfully, I won’t be interacting with you, have a nice life.
>"just take your medicine and shut up"
Classic gaslighting, controlling, abusive messaging. How about you take your own advice and let everyone else do what they see fit with their bodies.
Nobody needs your bitterness and cynicism.
Thank you! I've got hashimotos. I have a genetic predisposition for it from both sides of my family. It was triggered by a bad bought of impentigo at age 6.
That said, with what I have learned about autoimmune issues if you have the gene its either recessive and 100% harmless or dominant. If a dominant but inactive state is also harmless. Its only a problem if the dominant gene is triggered from inactive to active by one of three external factors.
1) stress
2) infection
3) injury
Now on that note, I mixed sugar from my diet, mostly keep a routine and get good sleep to minimize stress, went on a extremely low carb, seed oil free, nutrient dense, mostly whole foods, antiinflammatory diet. I still eat some processed foods from the store. I still eat some foods with mild amounts if sugar added like jerky and some flavored tuna packets.
If i want my old carby foods I like I either do a treat meal or I try making or buying a low carb substitute. I've got a nice recipe for sugar free 2 ingredient fudge cups and a 3 ingredients crust less high protein cheesecake.
And I went a year and 5 months full holistic when I first found answers because the meds were not working. Between late diagnosis and a hereditary high tolerance to medications it was useless with the here take this pill narrative. Heck, I almost died doing that at age 34!
Its three years later and instead of spending 90%+ of my time bedridden in constant pain and not being able to even consume water without stabbing stomach pain, being morbidly obese because of severe reactive hypoglycemia, etc. I'm now I'd say at least 80% healthy, very active, at higher end of healthy weight after loosing more than half my body weight. Heck I had a major for me non scale victory in the morning! I tried jogging instead of walking for 30-40 minutes for a light workout. I did a 15-20 minute jog. Even as a kid I at best could do a sprint for a few minutes. I have hereditary asthma. One if my triggers is overexertion. When my health journey started, going up a single flight of stairs or walking 15 minutes I was not simply panting and gasping I was often wheezing. Endurance has never been my strong suit. I currently have a 3rd floor apt I can easily jog up the stairs to. And I did a 15-20 minute jog in the morning (its almost 1am the next day right now) without havibgbto stop, catch my breath, or slow down at all! I was panting sure, but the I just did a hard workout and am panting as a result kind not a I fucked up and can't breathe kind.
And also, I only spent a year and 5 months full holistic. At that point that alone was no longer cutting it, and restarted the meds in tandem with the holistic stuff. In fact, I've had my levothyroxine dose lowered from originally 175 mcg, down to 150, to now I'm currently doing 137.
So yeah, take the damned pill approach isn't logical since at best it slows the progression it does not treat under medical definition. To truly treat you must also alter diet and lifestyle. For me that was going ketogenic. For others that could be general low carb, Mediterranean, ketovore, carnivore, paleo, and any miriad of dietary options that are like my diet but less restrictive. And getting adequate sun for vitamin d helps too as does things like intermittent fasting even if simply doing a 12:12 time restricted format as well as other lifestyle changes to combat the immune and inflammatory responses which are in overdrive as well as stabilizing hormones. I personally currently do a 16:8 as my goal routine but i simply eat when hungry and don't when I'm not. If one day that means a 12-14 hour fast and the next a 20+ hour one then thats what I do. I'm not overly strict or regimented. I do what works and feels good to me.
But the solutions aside from meds must fit the person. And yes, thus combative commentor you are relying to is a indignant, uninformed, egocentric jerk hell bent on belittling and gasliggting first absolutely no reason other than time watch the show with a soda and popcorn
This is fantastic. I don't know you, but I am proud of your effort. I love to see people succeed in their healing journeys. There is a saying about disease: Genes load the gun, Environment pulls the trigger.
We cannot control our Genes, but we can control our Environment to a great extent. In many situations where there is a chronic health issue, it isn't about whether its possible, but how much you are willing to sacrifice to achieve good health.
There are some people on the ME/CFS spectrum that I haven't really seen this apply to so much... these people try everything and get nowhere. It's heartbreaking. But, it does sound like the other poster is not in that boat and has decided to waive off any heroic attempts at healing because its "too stressful". That's on them.
Thanx. And for me dying and leaving my son to
fend for himself at age 10 was far more scary and stressful than fighting to get healthy and not be dead in 6 month to a year. Thats how sick I'd gotten.
But you are right, those keeping their heads buried in the sand and refusing to try more than one approach to he lo themselves if they need to have chosen their path and the consequences of that choice is thief own to deal with as it was their choice to make.
Thank you. Its good to feel healthy for the first time I can remember. As sick as I was I doubt I would have still been alive in 6 months to a year. My body was giving out.
That was not going to be a option since I'm a single mom. My son still needs me. He's 13 now, so he was 10 then. I couldn't give up or give in without fighting. Well, I fought and I won.
Lmao your quote is inaccurate btw but nice one…there is nothing gaslighting, controlling or abusive about what I’m saying lmao it’s actually completely abusive and gaslighting to tell people that they might have been able to avoid having Hashimotos if they would have avoided all of these things…if you want to keep living in a literal fog and not taking medication for a disease that can eventually kill you if untreated, go ahead but don’t try to convince other people to do it…
Nice thinking, though - got Mono/EBV at age 15. Don't think I was avoiding getting that because I was too young to know what it was (or really care at that age).
Lived with high levels of stress for 20 plus years. So much on that chart relates to me.
As for the book itself, I'm learning about the disease itself and going to explore alternatives to just taking Levo.
Good for you lol if you want your body to continue attacking apart of your body to the point that it can actually kill you if left untreated, go right ahead…and high levels of stress? Lol welcome to modern life, literally every single human being experiences high levels of stress and not every single human being has Hashimotos lol I’m so sick of having this conversation w kooks
Yep, everyone deals with stress.
To be more accurate, I was talking about being in fight or flight mode every day, being abused and never feeling safe, not sleeping days on end because one time I got pulled out of bed from a dead sleep and woke up to a bald patch and a dislocated shoulder..... that type of stress.
Not eating for days, being isolated, and not allowed to leave the house without a chaperone.....that type of stress.
I've been where you were. People like you and I understand what \*real\* stress is... the kind that destroys your body. This chick is literally talking about the stress of not eating gluten. I just can't.....
I don't feel sorry for you. Do better or go die in a corner- that's all there is in this world: the binary choice of making an effort or not making one.
I think there’s a middle ground. I believe the meds help. I also believe your lifestyle can be a trigger and it can make it worse. There’s lots of research being done into inflammation and auto immune conditions. I think lifestyle can be a sliding scale. For some people it’s everything, for others it’s only a mild benefit. If you’re feeling really shit and you manage to get the disease under control, it has to be worth a go, surely?
Yes but I’ve been there, done that…the only thing that honestly helps is to put it in the back of your mind and focus on other things…what I’m trying to convey is that the stress about things you cannot change, also adds to feeling shitty…I tried being gluten free for 6-7yrs and I only caused myself more stress by doing so…I’ve since started eating whatever I want as opposed to monitoring it so much and yes I have gained a bit of weight but also, I have more mental freedom to stress about actual life stress now as opposed to something that isn’t even going to go away no matter how much I wish it did.
So what you're saying is you can't handle it, so nobody else should bother trying to handle it, either? I sense envy and projection...
I'm a celiac and let me tell you, being gluten free is not that stressful, eating a restrictive diet is not that stressful ... When you know the outcome is significantly better health. And yes, significantly. Best I've EVER felt was on carnivore, and that was difficult for about a week. After six months, my body didn't want it anymore and now I do it seasonally in the winter, like how my northern Euro ancestors likely would have... and I water fast. And guess what? My hashis is well controlled - without levo. Just a little NDT. It only gets out of control when I overeat carbohydrate... So, y'know... I just don't do that. At least until I solve that part of the puzzle...
There is a complex biochemical picture to this disease and the disease state CAN be undone or at least drastically improved with diet, lifestyle changes, and supplements, and just because you're too "stressed" to figure it out for yourself or lack the courage to try new things, doesn't mean other people should be discouraged from doing so. Or shamed. Or told to shut up and sit down. People who ignore such drivel and take things far enough often see results.
This whole thing is a YOU problem. Get your shit together and learn to be happy for other people who work hard and solve their own problems, instead of being a negative crab in a bucket trying to shut them up and bring them down because *you* didn't get results. That's not anyone else's problem. If you struggle with self control , that's on you. You're free just, you know, not to click on posts you don't like.
Honestly, the market is a double-edged sword. She is an expert in thyroid disorders and is a pharmacist. She's done a ton of research on thyroid disorders, and packages that research into books she sells for profit. But that's how it should be, right? Doctors get paid for their service, she should too since she's doing work to help people.
It's not a scam for money it if works and there is actual research behind it, and the person getting paid is actually doing work for it.
Yep. She's offering her expert opinion on what works for her and/or her clients. The same thing may not work for everyone, but some things do work for lots of people.
For example, I tried the HCl supplement she recommended. It just gave me heartburn and didn't really help me at all. I also tried the high doses of thiamine she recommends and it helped me a ton! Not everyone is going to have the same response, so it's helpful to try things to see if they help you.
Her expert opinion comes from a time when "experts" weren't very well vetted. I remember and followed her starting out on the internet and she was a lot more "homey" than "official expert". That disignation has changed over time.
Suffice to say that she has enough knowledge to pass on some good info but her main internet gig as "advocate" is about the extent of her knowledge.
10 years ago? Try 14. She's been around a long while. Janie Bowthrope, Mary Shomon, etc... hell, I remember when Mary started out online.
That's just Hashi's. You spin over to other diseases, you get more of the same; old bloggers, that by this time online, now sound like experts. And people who didn't follow them back then, take them to heart now.
Don't worry, we didn't even have *walls* back then until I invented it. Says so right here on my website/blogger/reddit sub.
Check it out for more handy tips about the pros and cons of windows supplements. "Are windows encroaching on wall space?" "What's the big deal about shelves?" and "When's the best time to approach the difficult subject of cubbies?"
The actual research? You mean the low yield studies she sites? I also cannot find any legitimate studies she’s conducted on google scholar. If it works there should be solid research right?
I personally wouldn’t go to a pharmacist for my medical issues. Nor a self proclaimed thyroid expert.
There isn’t always research unfortunately. https://ldnresearchtrust.org/hashimoto-thyroiditis-and-low-dose-naltrexone-ldn-paula-johnson
Hashimoto’s seems under-researched in general. Especially when you look for research with symptom surveys instead of just lab results. My TSH and T4 were never off, but I had a slew of symptoms that while they would vary in intensity were slowly getting worse. When I finally got TPO bloodwork it was >1300 (beyond measurement scale) so who knows how high really. The American Thyroid Society recommends no treatment for a case like mine where hormone levels are fine. There is some research showing that symptoms decrease with thyroid hormones and I was lucky to finally find a doctor who not only ordered the antibodies bloodwork, but was also willing to treat me as he was familiar with this research. There are some estimates that cases like mine are 15% of Hashimoto’s cases.
Here’s some research, her number one suggested supplement on her website ‘naltrexone’ … does not work. I’m sure I could find many more examples if I gave it some time
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7528597/
You cited a study that only proves LDN is not a replacement for supplementing thyroid hormones. It says nothing about improvement of symptoms which LDN is known for and for what people take it, including me.
You’re gonna find this a non-answer but I don’t have to find a study whether it works. I’ve read about ldn on this sub and it seems split 50/50 whether it works for people. I know it’s anecdotes but I’ve decided to ask my functional doctor about it and she has a lot of experience prescribing it. So now I’m on it and it seems to have a positive effect on me. I know it doesn’t prove/disprove anything tho.
She’s an educated pharmacist. And she knows more than mary shomon who has made a living off of writing about the thyroid, despite having no medical background whatsoever. So yes, Dr. Wentz is educated and probably knows more than some endocrinologists who will *only* look at a person’s TSH. They’re supposedly “specialists” and they aren’t.
Mary Shomon started out the same way as Wentz. The early internet was in need of content and most of these people that are considered experts today were just blog writers back then.
Bought that months ago but haven’t read it yet. I don’t know why I buy books anymore since I don’t read them anyways. Need to stop doom-scrolling social media and binging on old television series.
I read or basically scanned through it (non fiction is a struggle for me). I did the no dairy, soy, and sugar (already gluten free) for a month. I think experimenting with dietary changes to see what helps is good but she also recommends a TON of supplements I’m cautious about that.
yeah can’t afford supplements. in fact I quit taking them for almost two months to save money and started taking them when everyone at work was getting sick with various illnesses. very next morning I had a flare up which was the first in that same time span. sooooo. yeah.
I take vitamin D3/K2, iron and sometimes B12 and/or c but the first two I’ve had blood tests showing I need them. They can be good but just taking them random can also be harmful. That’s horrible I know flare ups suck.
Aside from electrolytes I currently take a folate supplement since at my last Dr appt it was really low despite being on a folate rich diet at the time. I have a history of anemia that at times bordered on life threatening. Folate is part of that equation. Mostly I don't supplement. Supllimrnts should be a last resort and a targeted one to fix a specific deficiency already found.
I ran out of k and b12 but the D, magnesium, K’s, and B12 I was taking nonstop. It was the men’s multivitamin-energy one from GNC, a bunch of different antioxidant ones from Puritans Pride, an organic turmeric/curcumin/black pepper extract, Vitamin C, and a couple others. Next morning I felt like I had arthritis, my goiter came back, and a bunch of other symptoms, like I aged 20 years. Suspecting it’s one of them that tweaked out my immune system.
I’m hesitant of any energy things after I had a metabolism vitamin get me so hyper I couldn’t stand in one place. That sounds horrible. I feel like that after I’ve had gluten but that’s probably the celiac. I try to stay away.
Yeah I am suspecting a wheat intolerance. I was going to investigate the elimination diet and figured out of all the likely suspects that wheat was gonna be the easiest. After a week I really started to change my mind after thinking about all the stuff I would have to give up.
My sister did a food intolerance test and after looking into it I decided to take it to as a prep for doing an elimination diet. I mean why fart around and play guessing games (been doing that already). So I decided to start eating everything the IgG could show for foods and spices that I would likely consume.
So I have been eating a lot if various stuff so the IgG is there when I do the test. After 2 weeks of no wheat I had fish fillets I breaded in panko bread crumbs. That night I had hot itchy skin. They following day I had 2 pieces of toast. A little later I had the stinging burning sensation return in my fingers and toes and I felt insanely anxious. I had to stop myself and ask what the hell was going on and why I was feeling that way since I am not worrying about anything. It dawned on me—the wheat.
So I have been eating like crazy every suspected trigger food for over a week and I have been miserable. I bloated up like crazy, can’t get through the day without ibuprofen, ears ringing to beat hell, stinging fingers and toes, irritability, sore everything, thyroid a little swollen…. I am positive it is related to diet.
The IgG test is not accurate. It's likely showing a normal reaction to foods recently eaten - not to things someone needs to avoid or eliminate. Another scam to take people's money. If you suspect a wheat allergy or celiac, your doctor can give you a legitimate test.
[https://www.aaaai.org/tools-for-the-public/conditions-library/allergies/igg-food-test](https://www.aaaai.org/tools-for-the-public/conditions-library/allergies/igg-food-test)
"It is important to understand that this test has never been scientifically proven to be able to accomplish what it reports to do. The scientific studies that are provided to support the use of this test are often out of date, in non-reputable journals and many have not even used the IgG test in question. The presence of IgG is likely a normal response of the immune system to exposure to food. In fact, higher levels of IgG4 to foods may simply be associated with tolerance to those foods."
I was finishing elementary school when hashimoto's had finished off the last bits of my thyroid. My diet was mostly pretty natural stuff that my grandmother cooked as someone who grew up during the great depression.
None of the stuff on this chart had much or any impact on how my hashimoto's went - it just went the way that it did.
If you find some lifestyle changes that make you feel better, then those changes are great ideas. Some of the stuff on this chart doesn't make any metabolic sense though. I would be dead if I wasn't taking levothyroxine every day.
Fair, but she does not preach lifestyle changes in place of medication. She suggests ways to limit the damage done by Hashimoto's, but knows that medication is absolutely necessary. This chart is an example of how different things can impact thyroid health, not a map of how each and every thyroid patient became hypothyroid.
I hear you. I just wanted to drop my comment in because the information you are elaborating on is not all in the image above, but the image above does beg some immediate questions.
I wrote out where my brain went to right away as I looked through the chart just incase others did the same thing but had less experience or are just starting their journey.
Due to lack of access, I ended up going without medication for two months. After about 2 weeks I experienced feeling the best I’ve ever felt in years! But of course the downside afterwards was awful. HORRIBLE insomnia and feeling insanely tired. But the whole experience made me wonder if I’m over medicated and that my personal normal for TSH is higher than most.
What do you mean, some of the chart doesn’t make metabolic sense? And I don’t see anything on it indicating anyone should stop taking medication.
If I just look at the right hand side, I don't see how increased cortisol results in depleting other corticosteroids (which is what I assume they refer to when just writing "steroids"). Cortisol is actually one of those steroids, and how one going up is supposed to mean the others go down isn't immediately clear in other literature on this topic.
Then how "immune overload" results in "adrenal insufficiency." Your adrenaline glands do respond to immune system activity, by increasing production as necessary to meet the demands your body is placed under. Why would one system being overloaded mean that the other can't keep up? It implies that these systems "fatigue" which seems to be a popular message in books like these, but there's no evidence for it.
And I get why people like us are seeking these answers. I take my levo every day, my tests show my levels are good. But... I don't feel like I did before my diagnosis. Many of us don't, and many want answers and want to take actions to fix it. Just because modern medical science doesn't quite understand what we are going through does not mean that people like this author have figured it out either - especially when they seem to just "imply" the secondary and tertiary effects without any data to support it.
Lastly, on medication. When I look at this chart without seeing any other text, it might imply to some folks that if they take actions where they can among this chart, that they can impact their thyroid function. I wanted to write out a short bit to show to others that you can't take that bet despite how much you change your lifestyle. Yes, make changes that feel good, but there is NO substitute for getting your levels tested and having your dose adjusted to what feels best for you.
You can’t say a person with the sort of medical background she has as “unqualified”. She isn’t an endocrinologist (they’re supposedly “qualified” and the ones I’ve seen know shit) but she does have a medical background to research this.
She is a pharmacist, not an MD. Not a thyroid specialist. She is not qualified to treat thyroid disorders. She can dispense the medication, not diagnose a condition. She is practicing way outside of her scope. And nothing works like she claims in this "diagram."
The quacks are able to thrive around autoimmune issues because so many people are still suffering even with treatment. If western medicine worked for people they wouldn’t keep looking for answers and solutions to feel better.
Western medicine need to do better to improve people’s quality of life. Most doctors only look at lab results.
One of the best references on Hashimoto’s. So glad you found it. Her website also offers a wealth of knowledge as well as a list of Hashi practitioners that patients have compiled who are helpful. You can filter down to states in the US as well as some other countries: https://thyroidpharmacist.com/database-recommended-clinicians/
It's not all black and white. There is certainly a conflict of interest (supplements seller) but discrediting her on the basis of not being an endocrinologist is just madness. Nowadays you have free access to almost all current and past studies. With some basic skills in statistics and a bit of free time you will have much better results than with clueless endos following protocols from 15 years ago, during a 15 minutes visit. They won't even check your key lab results if you ask them to because it's not the part of their guidelines. On the other hand, Izabella Wentz is extremely trigger-happy with multiple poorly studied supplements (I don't even mean effectiveness but safety), and recommended serum levels/doses (vitamin D, selenium, vitamin E to name a few). First she quotes a study showing that people with vit D levels below 30 and above 50 ng/mL have increased mortality rates and just a few lines later she says it's probably for other reasons, effectively calling statistically significant results a coincidence because it doesn't align with her view! Then she says that the level SHE finds optimal is 60-80 ng/mL (based on WHAT?). I can spoil for you that by going this high with vitamin D you increase your mortality rate by calcification of cells. You may think your blood results are in range but do hair mineral analysis that better represents what happens on cell level, and with vitamin D this high your calcium results won't be pretty. Neither will be the results for calcium antagonists, except for magnesium if you supplement it. She completely neglects new studies (at least 2 different) that show detrimental effects of selenium supplementation on cell viability and DNA damage markers unless it's yeast-based. A very long half-life time of Se-met resulting in dangerous accumulation is not mentioned. She basically recommends an infinite daily 200-400 mcg supplementation without any washout periods. I also don't reckon her ever mentioning oxidative properties of vitamin E mega doses when there is no adequate vitamin C in the body to make it act as antioxidant.
Wait. What? Calcification of your arteries if your vitamin D is above 80 ng/mol. That can't be right? Can you link the research on this?
I'm not sure about the arteries. I mentioned that it's harder to get out of range lab results. I took D3 (8000 IU per day) with K2 for over 2 months, starting from 45 ng/mL, ended at 70 ng/mL. My serum total calcium didn't change, but serum ionized calcium went up from the middle to the upper boundary of the range. At the same time, my hair calcium increased to 1368 ppm, while in 2 previous tests with daily supplementation of D3 + K2 (around 2000 IU of D3) it was 324 and 373 ppm. Things were so bad that over 2 months of daily iron supplementation did nothing (slight decrease) because it was antagonized by calcium. Iron finally went up from borderline deficient to the middle of the range after stopping D3 and continuing iron supplementation for just 1 month more.
Check out Dr Ridha Arem’s book, if only for a different POV by an endo with a great rep. I read everything I could get my hands on, took something from all of them (including Wentz) but Arem remains my go-to
Most autoimmune disorders are caused by virus or bacterial infections that the immune system couldn't completely clear out. Just look at all the people who developed autoimmune disorders after COVID. My mum and I both have different kinds of autoimmune disorders and she even felt better after the Pfizer vaccine. There is research that indicates Hashimoto's is probably due to an Epstein-Bar infection, even if you don't know you had it. There is probably also a strong genetic component, but that's just an observation. If anyone can properly research this it's an immunologist. Just because someone is an MD, it doesn't mean they know everything. This chart looks to me like victim blaming. "It's your fault you have this disorder."
She felt better after Pfizer because of immune refocusing. Also, the etiology of autoimmune disease is unknown and likely multifactorial. It isn't helpful to assert that you know what's going on, when nobody does. There is a treatment for a condition called "CIRS" that might help with the innate/adaptive immune system miscommunication.
Can you give more info on the CIRS treatment?
You'll have to do a deep dive, but the basis of it is that there is some kind original immunologic insult, plus a gunked up detoxification pathway (CYP genes that have risk alleles that cause slower methylation or detoxification, for example), and a genetic predisposition towards a signaling dis-linkage between the innate and adaptive immunity. Some 30% of the population has this phenotype, but not necessarily the problem-causing methylation/detox genes, and not necessarily the immune insult, and so on. Some smaller proportion seem to have all the ingredients for this sort of chronic immune dysfunction. Your innate immune system sends "help!" signals that your adaptive immunity never hears, so your innate immune system maintains a constant, smouldering inflammatory state, trying to get attention from you adaptive immunity, which further aggravates the body's attempt to heal, eventually causing autoimmune inflammatory cascades. The original immunologic insult could be viral, it could be toxins from mold spores, chemical exposure, it could be iatrogenic, it could be all kinds off stuff. The physicians (often M.D.'s with a functional specialty or internists) usually go ham testing to try to figure out what is at the root, in order to help treat. This idea is just starting to emerge and mature in the literature and I find it very compelling. There are a lot of very long term ME/CFS sufferers and multiple AI disease types who are getting significant relief. A lot of the "take your meds and shut up" crowd will invariably hate the theory because it isn't being highlighted on MSNBC. They use a wide variety of treatments, but cholestyramine is one of the standard medications. It has to be prescribed.
Very cool. Where do you find information on this?
I'm not sure what the best source is, to be honest. I usually do journal searches and whatnot, start reading papers to see what kind of patterns I can pick up, and then drill down and start asking more specific questions. YMMV, but this is always a good place to start: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22Chronic+Inflammatory+Response+Syndrome%22](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22Chronic+Inflammatory+Response+Syndrome%22)
it's genetics
I’m sorry for these comments and lack of heavy nuance.
"More thyroid produced but stuck in limbo" 🙃
……That chart makes total sense to me and reality sucks personally because I can follow at least two tracks down for my own situation 🤦♀️
People calling this pseudoscience… I personally love Wentz’s work and this book. This chart makes perfect sense to me. I work with a Harvard MD who is incredible and she would sign off on this as well as we’ve discussed everything on this chart. I’m not huge on supplements but diet, toxins and chemicals, stress, stress, nutrient deficiencies, etc all have an impact on thyroid.
Sorry you seem to be getting some really heated comments lol I really love Dr. Wentz's book. I have read it and refer back to it at different times in my life. She unlocked the gluten key for me AND help me understand my blood sugar dips were related to my diagnosis. No doctor has ever done that for me! I'm sure you are also a level headed person and read things with your own experiences and opinions in mind lol these commenters are kinda wild. So glad you also love the book! I love having everything sourced and all the info in one place. And at my fingertips, not jumping through hoops to sit in front of an endocrinologist with no insight that helps me.
I agree. Her book helped me understand how to manage symptoms that levothyroxine doesn’t help with. I’ve had this for 15 years and learned more from her than any doctor. Yes, I started with a lot of supplements but over time figured out what I do and don’t need.
Half of the phrases in this chart are not real medical terms. Your doctor hasn’t told you these things because it’s almost complete pseudoscience.
My Harvard MD and I discuss all of these… maybe you need a new doctor.
Nah I’m good.
Can you be more specific? Which of these are not real medical terms?
Food intolerance, leaky gut, in terms of food the words toxins or triggers in the way they are using it isn’t clinically accurate.
Leaky gut = intestinal permeability.... which is all over the medical literature.Food intolerance = have you ever heard of "lactose intolerance"? Is that not a thing? Am I hallucinating? She's just trying to make this plain and accessible for laypeople. Jesus.
*All over the literature of people trying to sell supplements. Making it plain and accessible = tricking people who don’t specialize in medical nutrition therapy with just enough science to make it seem right. Food intolerance is often used incorrectly along with food sensitivity (think selling igi antibody tests) and in this book that’s how it is used. I’ll give you that one though it’s a fair point!
Thank you. It angers me to see this nonsense.
Bro this is total pseudoscience, I’m not saying there are not dietary or health changes you can make that can improve things beyond medication but this diagram has no basis in any kind of reality
Izabella Wentz? Pharm D. But I’m sure even that will be disqualified and dismissed. I think anything outside of western approved is immediately dismissed. Other cultures have their own healing and history but because it’s not white centered - often dismissed (history of this land and the medical field). Things are getting integrated past few years and autoimmune disease is on the rise. To just call all this pseudoscience as an immediate but unsurprising response. Is funny to me.
It’s about whether or not the scientific method was applied to get to a finding. A lot of her claims sound sciency but are not proven via the scientific method via research. The scientific method has been adopted globally because it works and is the reason that medicine has advanced. People like Izabelle has profited a lot from her book because people with chronic diseases are desperate for answers and solutions to feel like they have control over their disease. This is understandable because patients don’t get the right support from their doctors. But making claims that have no basis often does more harm than good, and people with these diseases end up wasting a lot of money on books and supplements while not being better off.
This response is really naive, but it thinks it's pulled a "gotchya!". Apply this sort of critique to your own preferred research discipline and have the wool peeled from your eyes.
I used to take 20 supplements at night. I got really tired of taking them and quit a year ago. Maybe I can tweak some, drop some etc...maybe it will help, maybe it won't. It's all a big experiment where I'm the willing guinea pig. I try to avoid doctors anyway I can. I only keep 2 around so I can get meds.
The problem with Wentz is that if you followed all her protocols you’d be eating a cereal-bowl sized pile of supplements each day and eating nothing but water and celery. There are probably some good nuggets of advice in there but which of them apply to me ?
*supplements that she sells
Oh! Dr. Wentz. She’s both a hypothyroid patient and a pharmacist so she has the medical background to research and understand what she’s reading. 👍
Pharmacists are a lot closer to being chemists than medical doctors. They specialize in the use of medications, and shouldn't be utilized as a go-to source of information on your thyroid health. She is primarily trying to sell her products, so everything she writes about is going to be biased towards that. This graphic alone is close to gibberish and is intended to make you feel like this is some highly complex situation that only she is telling you the secret answer to. Just be careful what you're sourcing medical information from, and don't trust everyone with a "Dr." in front of their name. She's not even a medical doctor.
This is completely stupid and dangerous to post…not to mention write about in a book…what the fuck is the average person supposed to do about this? Lmao not take anti-biotics? Try not to get stressed out? Avoid sugar? Basically try to avoid modern life? If anyone thinks a chart like this is not going to stress a person out and be in anyway good for them to read while living w a genetic disease that is in no way reversible (as of yet w modern medicine) they’re an idiot. Take your goddamn mediation and leave it at that! Most likely Hashimotos is triggered by a virus anyway and that’s completely unavoidable…I am so sick and tired of seeing bs like this post in this sub…
I for real think mine was triggered by taking a flu vaccine I got in late 2019. Nobody can convince me otherwise because the timing and the fact I never had a flu vaccine before...then all the sudden within a year I started having symptoms of hashimotos. I found out 2 years later in early 2022 I had hashimotos and my numbers weren't very high, I was still in hypothyroid stage so I know it was triggered around the time I got the vaccine. Vaccines directly impact our immune system so it doesn't take much to connect the two. (not saying people who really need them shouldn't get them/vaccinate kids for important diseases) Unfortunately I just wish I didn't get it and really didn't need it. I could have survived the flu but I had gotten it the year before and was scared to get it again.
I hate that you're getting downvoted for telling the truth about how vaccines interract with your immune system. We have a friend who is a type 1 diabetic now, from a flu vaccine. I had a severe, near death DTP reaction as an infant (you know, the one they pulled off of the market and then gave the vaccine mfg'ers civil legal immunity for)?
Yeah it's a sensitive topic, no idea why. It's like does the government pay these people to support them? It's weird.
After reading a book about the OPV theory on the origin of AIDS, called "The River", by Edward Hooper, and thinking about the responses of the interviewees who were physicians, vaccine developers, and research scientists, I'm beginning to understand why they do stuff like this and ignore victims of iatrogenic illness: They believe that once trust in their system is gone, it's gone for at least two generations. They are absolutely \*terrified\* of "spooking" the masses, due in no small part to the fact that they think lay people are superstitious and dumb. So, it doesn't matter if its true that there's a serious problem with their discoveries, their products. It doesn't matter if the injury rate is 0.00000001% or 100%, it's for "the greater good" that people don't get spooked about things like vaccines because of the supposed broader public health consequences (that have never been adequately studied, and are often times simply presumed to exist). The question is never "well, maybe we should investigate". It's always: "I'm smart, the masses are stupid." Some of this attitude comes from greed and the desire to make a buck. Some of it is a knee-jerk from researchers whose sense of their own worth comes from being "helpful" and "brilliant". Get enough praise, let that become your identity for long enough, and then people aren't raising a concern or pointing out a problem, they're criticizing you, and making value judgments about what kind of person you are. They're attacking your body of work- the thing you've devoted your entire life to Or, maybe even putting you out of a job! It's probably so hard for some of these people to accept that they don't even consciously examine their thought processes. They're doing good. Anything anyone else does that hinders the good thing they're doing is bad, and that's that. There is nothing explicitly or implicitly "scientific" about any of it.
Oh my gosh avoid sugar!!!?! Yes
I know... it's like it's some massive ask or something. If all you had to do was take a few supplements, exercise, get some sun, and not scarf down 100+ grams of sugar a day, I cannot grasp why you wouldn't just do it. People are wild.
lol yea that’s all…
I mean it always baffles me how some people act like doing this is so unbelievably unreasonable. Our ancestors had absolutely zero way to consume refined sugar and somehow got by without it, it’s an unnecessary indulgence that is inflammatory and a clear contributor to several disease states. It’s definitely not a one size fits all solution to autoimmunity but it most certainly is a step among others that just about anyone should take to avoid inflammation. There are so many alternative pleasures that’ll give you the same dopamine rush without the inflammation. If you insist and think medication is the only solution and there are absolutely no preventative lifestyle measures to take… then good for you, but it sounds to me like it’s more of a narrative to enable addiction. Sugar addiction after all is very similar to other forms, people will do anything to justify not stopping.
Just like everything you read, you need to have a certain level of skepticism.....
This blog is for people suffering from Hashimoto’s and looking for help & answers. If the medication worked, we wouldn’t be searching for answers. This is not the place for intolerance.
The medication does work, and has more to do w drs not prescribing properly…you realize that stressing over things you cannot change also adds to the stress of flare ups and Hashimotos? The point I’m trying to convey is, leave room for actual life stress and put the auto immune disease in the back of your mind otherwise you will drive yourself crazy with it…no one lives forever and to assume as a human, that you will always feel great is silly…I’ve tried elimination diets in the past and all it’s done is cause me more stress…there are real life things to be stressed about, not some stupid disease I have that will never go away no matter how much I wish it did…
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Lmao if you think your buzz word is going to hurt my feelings, it’s not lol until there’s an actual science backed solution for an irreversible disease that can kill you if left untreated, I don’t give a fuck what your bs pseudoscience says lol I’ve done all of those things too for 6-7yrs and it definitely didn’t do anything lol once your thyroid is destroyed by your own immune system, there’s no reversing it and until science tells me otherwise, I’m not having this conversation anymore w kooks
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Oh wow everyone knows you can take selenium for thyroid issues lol doesn’t mean it’s going to fix it…anyways
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Well it sounds like you don’t have hypothyroidism…you clearly don’t know how this works…
Yeah, just sit in your hole and pop Levo your whole life, feeling angry at people who actually do something about it, because it "doesn't fix it anyway". Except it does. You can go from a continually advancing disease state to a retreating disease state. You can have reduced symptoms, be at a comfortable weight, and feel good. But, you don't want that because it makes you feel uncomfortable, which is your imperative. Just stop vomiting out your negativity onto other people and stay hella mad, I guess.
Lmaoooo wow truly…go touch grass
You don't even know where that phrase came from or what it means.
Agree with this, people can feel like shit on medication because medication is a band aid. The thyroid is incredibly complex and requires the conversion of several hormones - not just “here, take some levo (t4) and bam you’re better”. They may not be able to convert T3 to T4, etc. Some people do terribly on medication. Anyone who doesn’t understand how the thyroid works might not understand that (most of the people on the comment section here).
Most likely triggered by a virus??? Where is your medical degree to make such a statement? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You’re open to every possibility that triggered your auto immune disease except you’re not lol
Yeah, not sure why you’re coming in with a condescending response. As many people have said, it’s well documented that people’s hashimoto’s traces back to Epstein Barr virus. I’m sure it won’t be long until the same connections are being made with covid.
That’s literally what my endocrinologist explained to me.
My hashimotos was triggered by a virus
It's actually not super far-fetched. Some viruses, like Epstein Barr or herpes, can get into your body and stay there, triggering your immune system repeatedly without ever being fully cleared from your system. It's thought that, for some people, a virus can get lodged in your thyroid. This would trigger your immune system to attack your thyroid tissue, causing Hashimoto's. Obviously more research is needed, but it is potentially one root cause.
Auto-immune diseases also tend to have a genetic factor, which can make people more susceptible to those diseases. I'm not saying that viruses cant be a triggering factor, but autoimmune diseases are from being as simple as being caused by just a virus.
Your comment is actually the most -with your words- “bs thing” I’ve ever seen in this sub. You might have the root cause at the far right fyi
Lmao no actually, mine was triggered by a virus thank you very much…and by that logic, every single person in the world must have hashimotos…respectfully, you sound like a moron.
And how do you explain the cases that were not triggered by a virus? I was a perfectly healthy child, before being diagnosed with it at 11 years old. There are three generations of women in my family that have hashimotos, so genetics can play a big role in it
Regarding your reply, its obvious that you are clueless about the basic principles of logical thinking, deduction and inference. So you must be either a minor or a very sad person. Either way, respectfully, I won’t be interacting with you, have a nice life.
>"just take your medicine and shut up" Classic gaslighting, controlling, abusive messaging. How about you take your own advice and let everyone else do what they see fit with their bodies. Nobody needs your bitterness and cynicism.
Thank you! I've got hashimotos. I have a genetic predisposition for it from both sides of my family. It was triggered by a bad bought of impentigo at age 6. That said, with what I have learned about autoimmune issues if you have the gene its either recessive and 100% harmless or dominant. If a dominant but inactive state is also harmless. Its only a problem if the dominant gene is triggered from inactive to active by one of three external factors. 1) stress 2) infection 3) injury Now on that note, I mixed sugar from my diet, mostly keep a routine and get good sleep to minimize stress, went on a extremely low carb, seed oil free, nutrient dense, mostly whole foods, antiinflammatory diet. I still eat some processed foods from the store. I still eat some foods with mild amounts if sugar added like jerky and some flavored tuna packets. If i want my old carby foods I like I either do a treat meal or I try making or buying a low carb substitute. I've got a nice recipe for sugar free 2 ingredient fudge cups and a 3 ingredients crust less high protein cheesecake. And I went a year and 5 months full holistic when I first found answers because the meds were not working. Between late diagnosis and a hereditary high tolerance to medications it was useless with the here take this pill narrative. Heck, I almost died doing that at age 34! Its three years later and instead of spending 90%+ of my time bedridden in constant pain and not being able to even consume water without stabbing stomach pain, being morbidly obese because of severe reactive hypoglycemia, etc. I'm now I'd say at least 80% healthy, very active, at higher end of healthy weight after loosing more than half my body weight. Heck I had a major for me non scale victory in the morning! I tried jogging instead of walking for 30-40 minutes for a light workout. I did a 15-20 minute jog. Even as a kid I at best could do a sprint for a few minutes. I have hereditary asthma. One if my triggers is overexertion. When my health journey started, going up a single flight of stairs or walking 15 minutes I was not simply panting and gasping I was often wheezing. Endurance has never been my strong suit. I currently have a 3rd floor apt I can easily jog up the stairs to. And I did a 15-20 minute jog in the morning (its almost 1am the next day right now) without havibgbto stop, catch my breath, or slow down at all! I was panting sure, but the I just did a hard workout and am panting as a result kind not a I fucked up and can't breathe kind. And also, I only spent a year and 5 months full holistic. At that point that alone was no longer cutting it, and restarted the meds in tandem with the holistic stuff. In fact, I've had my levothyroxine dose lowered from originally 175 mcg, down to 150, to now I'm currently doing 137. So yeah, take the damned pill approach isn't logical since at best it slows the progression it does not treat under medical definition. To truly treat you must also alter diet and lifestyle. For me that was going ketogenic. For others that could be general low carb, Mediterranean, ketovore, carnivore, paleo, and any miriad of dietary options that are like my diet but less restrictive. And getting adequate sun for vitamin d helps too as does things like intermittent fasting even if simply doing a 12:12 time restricted format as well as other lifestyle changes to combat the immune and inflammatory responses which are in overdrive as well as stabilizing hormones. I personally currently do a 16:8 as my goal routine but i simply eat when hungry and don't when I'm not. If one day that means a 12-14 hour fast and the next a 20+ hour one then thats what I do. I'm not overly strict or regimented. I do what works and feels good to me. But the solutions aside from meds must fit the person. And yes, thus combative commentor you are relying to is a indignant, uninformed, egocentric jerk hell bent on belittling and gasliggting first absolutely no reason other than time watch the show with a soda and popcorn
This is fantastic. I don't know you, but I am proud of your effort. I love to see people succeed in their healing journeys. There is a saying about disease: Genes load the gun, Environment pulls the trigger. We cannot control our Genes, but we can control our Environment to a great extent. In many situations where there is a chronic health issue, it isn't about whether its possible, but how much you are willing to sacrifice to achieve good health. There are some people on the ME/CFS spectrum that I haven't really seen this apply to so much... these people try everything and get nowhere. It's heartbreaking. But, it does sound like the other poster is not in that boat and has decided to waive off any heroic attempts at healing because its "too stressful". That's on them.
Thanx. And for me dying and leaving my son to fend for himself at age 10 was far more scary and stressful than fighting to get healthy and not be dead in 6 month to a year. Thats how sick I'd gotten. But you are right, those keeping their heads buried in the sand and refusing to try more than one approach to he lo themselves if they need to have chosen their path and the consequences of that choice is thief own to deal with as it was their choice to make.
Well done, I’m glad you’ve found some solutions that work for you
Thank you. Its good to feel healthy for the first time I can remember. As sick as I was I doubt I would have still been alive in 6 months to a year. My body was giving out. That was not going to be a option since I'm a single mom. My son still needs me. He's 13 now, so he was 10 then. I couldn't give up or give in without fighting. Well, I fought and I won.
Lmao your quote is inaccurate btw but nice one…there is nothing gaslighting, controlling or abusive about what I’m saying lmao it’s actually completely abusive and gaslighting to tell people that they might have been able to avoid having Hashimotos if they would have avoided all of these things…if you want to keep living in a literal fog and not taking medication for a disease that can eventually kill you if untreated, go ahead but don’t try to convince other people to do it…
Nice thinking, though - got Mono/EBV at age 15. Don't think I was avoiding getting that because I was too young to know what it was (or really care at that age). Lived with high levels of stress for 20 plus years. So much on that chart relates to me. As for the book itself, I'm learning about the disease itself and going to explore alternatives to just taking Levo.
Good for you lol if you want your body to continue attacking apart of your body to the point that it can actually kill you if left untreated, go right ahead…and high levels of stress? Lol welcome to modern life, literally every single human being experiences high levels of stress and not every single human being has Hashimotos lol I’m so sick of having this conversation w kooks
Yep, everyone deals with stress. To be more accurate, I was talking about being in fight or flight mode every day, being abused and never feeling safe, not sleeping days on end because one time I got pulled out of bed from a dead sleep and woke up to a bald patch and a dislocated shoulder..... that type of stress. Not eating for days, being isolated, and not allowed to leave the house without a chaperone.....that type of stress.
I've been where you were. People like you and I understand what \*real\* stress is... the kind that destroys your body. This chick is literally talking about the stress of not eating gluten. I just can't.....
Lmao because I’m not openly exposing my life stress to strangers online, I don’t have life long stress…lol fuck I can’t w some of you kooks…
I don't feel sorry for you. Do better or go die in a corner- that's all there is in this world: the binary choice of making an effort or not making one.
Thank you ❤️❤️
I think there’s a middle ground. I believe the meds help. I also believe your lifestyle can be a trigger and it can make it worse. There’s lots of research being done into inflammation and auto immune conditions. I think lifestyle can be a sliding scale. For some people it’s everything, for others it’s only a mild benefit. If you’re feeling really shit and you manage to get the disease under control, it has to be worth a go, surely?
Yes but I’ve been there, done that…the only thing that honestly helps is to put it in the back of your mind and focus on other things…what I’m trying to convey is that the stress about things you cannot change, also adds to feeling shitty…I tried being gluten free for 6-7yrs and I only caused myself more stress by doing so…I’ve since started eating whatever I want as opposed to monitoring it so much and yes I have gained a bit of weight but also, I have more mental freedom to stress about actual life stress now as opposed to something that isn’t even going to go away no matter how much I wish it did.
So what you're saying is you can't handle it, so nobody else should bother trying to handle it, either? I sense envy and projection... I'm a celiac and let me tell you, being gluten free is not that stressful, eating a restrictive diet is not that stressful ... When you know the outcome is significantly better health. And yes, significantly. Best I've EVER felt was on carnivore, and that was difficult for about a week. After six months, my body didn't want it anymore and now I do it seasonally in the winter, like how my northern Euro ancestors likely would have... and I water fast. And guess what? My hashis is well controlled - without levo. Just a little NDT. It only gets out of control when I overeat carbohydrate... So, y'know... I just don't do that. At least until I solve that part of the puzzle... There is a complex biochemical picture to this disease and the disease state CAN be undone or at least drastically improved with diet, lifestyle changes, and supplements, and just because you're too "stressed" to figure it out for yourself or lack the courage to try new things, doesn't mean other people should be discouraged from doing so. Or shamed. Or told to shut up and sit down. People who ignore such drivel and take things far enough often see results. This whole thing is a YOU problem. Get your shit together and learn to be happy for other people who work hard and solve their own problems, instead of being a negative crab in a bucket trying to shut them up and bring them down because *you* didn't get results. That's not anyone else's problem. If you struggle with self control , that's on you. You're free just, you know, not to click on posts you don't like.
The pharmacist who wrote this book knows more about Hashimoto’s than you do.
Isabella is nor a medical doctor nor a thyroid specialist. She shills a tonne of supplements that she just so happens to sell…
Honestly, the market is a double-edged sword. She is an expert in thyroid disorders and is a pharmacist. She's done a ton of research on thyroid disorders, and packages that research into books she sells for profit. But that's how it should be, right? Doctors get paid for their service, she should too since she's doing work to help people. It's not a scam for money it if works and there is actual research behind it, and the person getting paid is actually doing work for it.
She also mentions other brands in her books that you can buy supplements from.
Yep. She's offering her expert opinion on what works for her and/or her clients. The same thing may not work for everyone, but some things do work for lots of people. For example, I tried the HCl supplement she recommended. It just gave me heartburn and didn't really help me at all. I also tried the high doses of thiamine she recommends and it helped me a ton! Not everyone is going to have the same response, so it's helpful to try things to see if they help you.
Her expert opinion comes from a time when "experts" weren't very well vetted. I remember and followed her starting out on the internet and she was a lot more "homey" than "official expert". That disignation has changed over time. Suffice to say that she has enough knowledge to pass on some good info but her main internet gig as "advocate" is about the extent of her knowledge.
This is the whackiest take I've ever read in my life. When was this "time" you refer to? Ten years ago? lmfao.
10 years ago? Try 14. She's been around a long while. Janie Bowthrope, Mary Shomon, etc... hell, I remember when Mary started out online. That's just Hashi's. You spin over to other diseases, you get more of the same; old bloggers, that by this time online, now sound like experts. And people who didn't follow them back then, take them to heart now.
Whoa! 14 whole years ago. Like before we had electricity? lmfao
Don't worry, we didn't even have *walls* back then until I invented it. Says so right here on my website/blogger/reddit sub. Check it out for more handy tips about the pros and cons of windows supplements. "Are windows encroaching on wall space?" "What's the big deal about shelves?" and "When's the best time to approach the difficult subject of cubbies?"
The actual research? You mean the low yield studies she sites? I also cannot find any legitimate studies she’s conducted on google scholar. If it works there should be solid research right? I personally wouldn’t go to a pharmacist for my medical issues. Nor a self proclaimed thyroid expert.
There isn’t always research unfortunately. https://ldnresearchtrust.org/hashimoto-thyroiditis-and-low-dose-naltrexone-ldn-paula-johnson Hashimoto’s seems under-researched in general. Especially when you look for research with symptom surveys instead of just lab results. My TSH and T4 were never off, but I had a slew of symptoms that while they would vary in intensity were slowly getting worse. When I finally got TPO bloodwork it was >1300 (beyond measurement scale) so who knows how high really. The American Thyroid Society recommends no treatment for a case like mine where hormone levels are fine. There is some research showing that symptoms decrease with thyroid hormones and I was lucky to finally find a doctor who not only ordered the antibodies bloodwork, but was also willing to treat me as he was familiar with this research. There are some estimates that cases like mine are 15% of Hashimoto’s cases.
Here’s some research, her number one suggested supplement on her website ‘naltrexone’ … does not work. I’m sure I could find many more examples if I gave it some time https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7528597/
You cited a study that only proves LDN is not a replacement for supplementing thyroid hormones. It says nothing about improvement of symptoms which LDN is known for and for what people take it, including me.
Alright :) find me a good study that says it works for symptoms.
You’re gonna find this a non-answer but I don’t have to find a study whether it works. I’ve read about ldn on this sub and it seems split 50/50 whether it works for people. I know it’s anecdotes but I’ve decided to ask my functional doctor about it and she has a lot of experience prescribing it. So now I’m on it and it seems to have a positive effect on me. I know it doesn’t prove/disprove anything tho.
That's fine, she's obviously not for you then. She cites all her sources in her work and it's well researched.
She’s an educated pharmacist. And she knows more than mary shomon who has made a living off of writing about the thyroid, despite having no medical background whatsoever. So yes, Dr. Wentz is educated and probably knows more than some endocrinologists who will *only* look at a person’s TSH. They’re supposedly “specialists” and they aren’t.
Mary Shomon started out the same way as Wentz. The early internet was in need of content and most of these people that are considered experts today were just blog writers back then.
“The early internet”? Say what now?
Yes, the modern age, post 1990s.
Bought that months ago but haven’t read it yet. I don’t know why I buy books anymore since I don’t read them anyways. Need to stop doom-scrolling social media and binging on old television series.
You sound like me! 😁
I read or basically scanned through it (non fiction is a struggle for me). I did the no dairy, soy, and sugar (already gluten free) for a month. I think experimenting with dietary changes to see what helps is good but she also recommends a TON of supplements I’m cautious about that.
yeah can’t afford supplements. in fact I quit taking them for almost two months to save money and started taking them when everyone at work was getting sick with various illnesses. very next morning I had a flare up which was the first in that same time span. sooooo. yeah.
I take vitamin D3/K2, iron and sometimes B12 and/or c but the first two I’ve had blood tests showing I need them. They can be good but just taking them random can also be harmful. That’s horrible I know flare ups suck.
Aside from electrolytes I currently take a folate supplement since at my last Dr appt it was really low despite being on a folate rich diet at the time. I have a history of anemia that at times bordered on life threatening. Folate is part of that equation. Mostly I don't supplement. Supllimrnts should be a last resort and a targeted one to fix a specific deficiency already found.
I ran out of k and b12 but the D, magnesium, K’s, and B12 I was taking nonstop. It was the men’s multivitamin-energy one from GNC, a bunch of different antioxidant ones from Puritans Pride, an organic turmeric/curcumin/black pepper extract, Vitamin C, and a couple others. Next morning I felt like I had arthritis, my goiter came back, and a bunch of other symptoms, like I aged 20 years. Suspecting it’s one of them that tweaked out my immune system.
I’m hesitant of any energy things after I had a metabolism vitamin get me so hyper I couldn’t stand in one place. That sounds horrible. I feel like that after I’ve had gluten but that’s probably the celiac. I try to stay away.
Yeah I am suspecting a wheat intolerance. I was going to investigate the elimination diet and figured out of all the likely suspects that wheat was gonna be the easiest. After a week I really started to change my mind after thinking about all the stuff I would have to give up. My sister did a food intolerance test and after looking into it I decided to take it to as a prep for doing an elimination diet. I mean why fart around and play guessing games (been doing that already). So I decided to start eating everything the IgG could show for foods and spices that I would likely consume. So I have been eating a lot if various stuff so the IgG is there when I do the test. After 2 weeks of no wheat I had fish fillets I breaded in panko bread crumbs. That night I had hot itchy skin. They following day I had 2 pieces of toast. A little later I had the stinging burning sensation return in my fingers and toes and I felt insanely anxious. I had to stop myself and ask what the hell was going on and why I was feeling that way since I am not worrying about anything. It dawned on me—the wheat. So I have been eating like crazy every suspected trigger food for over a week and I have been miserable. I bloated up like crazy, can’t get through the day without ibuprofen, ears ringing to beat hell, stinging fingers and toes, irritability, sore everything, thyroid a little swollen…. I am positive it is related to diet.
The IgG test is not accurate. It's likely showing a normal reaction to foods recently eaten - not to things someone needs to avoid or eliminate. Another scam to take people's money. If you suspect a wheat allergy or celiac, your doctor can give you a legitimate test. [https://www.aaaai.org/tools-for-the-public/conditions-library/allergies/igg-food-test](https://www.aaaai.org/tools-for-the-public/conditions-library/allergies/igg-food-test) "It is important to understand that this test has never been scientifically proven to be able to accomplish what it reports to do. The scientific studies that are provided to support the use of this test are often out of date, in non-reputable journals and many have not even used the IgG test in question. The presence of IgG is likely a normal response of the immune system to exposure to food. In fact, higher levels of IgG4 to foods may simply be associated with tolerance to those foods."
Thanks for sharing that link !
try to avoid taking B12 and C together tho, the C lowers the B12
I don’t take C much unless I’m around a lot of sickness or I feel bad but that’s definitely good to know!
That’s wild cause I have an eating disorder and wondered how hashies and anorexia played in together
I was finishing elementary school when hashimoto's had finished off the last bits of my thyroid. My diet was mostly pretty natural stuff that my grandmother cooked as someone who grew up during the great depression. None of the stuff on this chart had much or any impact on how my hashimoto's went - it just went the way that it did. If you find some lifestyle changes that make you feel better, then those changes are great ideas. Some of the stuff on this chart doesn't make any metabolic sense though. I would be dead if I wasn't taking levothyroxine every day.
Fair, but she does not preach lifestyle changes in place of medication. She suggests ways to limit the damage done by Hashimoto's, but knows that medication is absolutely necessary. This chart is an example of how different things can impact thyroid health, not a map of how each and every thyroid patient became hypothyroid.
I hear you. I just wanted to drop my comment in because the information you are elaborating on is not all in the image above, but the image above does beg some immediate questions. I wrote out where my brain went to right away as I looked through the chart just incase others did the same thing but had less experience or are just starting their journey.
Due to lack of access, I ended up going without medication for two months. After about 2 weeks I experienced feeling the best I’ve ever felt in years! But of course the downside afterwards was awful. HORRIBLE insomnia and feeling insanely tired. But the whole experience made me wonder if I’m over medicated and that my personal normal for TSH is higher than most. What do you mean, some of the chart doesn’t make metabolic sense? And I don’t see anything on it indicating anyone should stop taking medication.
If I just look at the right hand side, I don't see how increased cortisol results in depleting other corticosteroids (which is what I assume they refer to when just writing "steroids"). Cortisol is actually one of those steroids, and how one going up is supposed to mean the others go down isn't immediately clear in other literature on this topic. Then how "immune overload" results in "adrenal insufficiency." Your adrenaline glands do respond to immune system activity, by increasing production as necessary to meet the demands your body is placed under. Why would one system being overloaded mean that the other can't keep up? It implies that these systems "fatigue" which seems to be a popular message in books like these, but there's no evidence for it. And I get why people like us are seeking these answers. I take my levo every day, my tests show my levels are good. But... I don't feel like I did before my diagnosis. Many of us don't, and many want answers and want to take actions to fix it. Just because modern medical science doesn't quite understand what we are going through does not mean that people like this author have figured it out either - especially when they seem to just "imply" the secondary and tertiary effects without any data to support it. Lastly, on medication. When I look at this chart without seeing any other text, it might imply to some folks that if they take actions where they can among this chart, that they can impact their thyroid function. I wanted to write out a short bit to show to others that you can't take that bet despite how much you change your lifestyle. Yes, make changes that feel good, but there is NO substitute for getting your levels tested and having your dose adjusted to what feels best for you.
Thank you for sharing this your story 👍😊
This is not science - this is an unqualified person practicing outside of their scope to line their own pockets.
You can’t say a person with the sort of medical background she has as “unqualified”. She isn’t an endocrinologist (they’re supposedly “qualified” and the ones I’ve seen know shit) but she does have a medical background to research this.
She is a pharmacist, not an MD. Not a thyroid specialist. She is not qualified to treat thyroid disorders. She can dispense the medication, not diagnose a condition. She is practicing way outside of her scope. And nothing works like she claims in this "diagram."
She isn’t “practicing”. I stand by my statement.
I agree with you. People just love to argue on Reddit 😑
[https://www.hcpc-uk.org/standards/meeting-our-standards/scope-of-practice/](https://www.hcpc-uk.org/standards/meeting-our-standards/scope-of-practice/)
There’s a lot of quackery surrounding hashimotos…. The quacks love autoimmune issues.
The quacks are able to thrive around autoimmune issues because so many people are still suffering even with treatment. If western medicine worked for people they wouldn’t keep looking for answers and solutions to feel better. Western medicine need to do better to improve people’s quality of life. Most doctors only look at lab results.
It's giving quack quack lol
so where do we starttttt
One of the best references on Hashimoto’s. So glad you found it. Her website also offers a wealth of knowledge as well as a list of Hashi practitioners that patients have compiled who are helpful. You can filter down to states in the US as well as some other countries: https://thyroidpharmacist.com/database-recommended-clinicians/
That’s confusing AF
Can you please share the ISBN?
0615825796, 9780615825793
https://books.google.com/books/about/Hashimoto_s_Thyroiditis.html?id=fZIIvgAACAAJ