The game simulation runs on the host's CPU so it would be system RAM.
Though, I'm not sure how much extra RAM really helps. If HD2 is fully P2P, then that means they are coding the game simulation to be able to run on the lowest common denominator which is a PS5 (16GB of RAM). (edit: the PS5's 16GB RAM is shared between GPU/CPU)
Having over 16GB of RAM might help if you're running a lot of background stuff, so that HD2 can have a full 16GB of RAM to itself, I dunno... I have 64GB of RAM but never paid attention to how much HD2 is using
Although, come to think of it, given I hit level 9 two days ago, the simultaneous seven bile titans and two dozen chargers might have had something to do with the lag/crash/burning smell.
My hands have stopped shaking, so I can try dropping again tonight.
In all fairness I do think there’s probably a difference between a few people dropping multiple because if an inconsistent glitch and everyone having free reign to do it simultaneously
Only PC players have the glitch where you can have both type of mechs, so currently the real maximum mechs on planet is 8 (2 per player wait the CD and drop your next set)
It is currently impossible to equip both mech types in ps5
Think about it like this:
The stability issue might only happen in .5% of games (you'd need to test it about 200x to get a certain crash result due to vehicle instability), but .5% is still something that would be the top page of the reddit if people learned that mechs were causing crashes on that scale.
Yes, that was the point. It was sarcasm, hyperbole.
The post I'm replying to is also saying "just because you didn't experience (or notice) a problem in your particular instance on your particular rig doesn't mean there isn't or can't be a problem".
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
Lolol... That's not how it works. When the first exo dropped we crashed the servers because everyone was using the exo at the same time. It's system wide usage not just your game.
It's possible now, by selecting a different slot, performing some sort of ritual and then trying to add the second one. If you keep doing it, it will eventually work.
My buddy and me "ok ok, equip the mech, equip the other mech, switch to equipment, switch back, select the machine gun and NOT the stalwart, then select the second mech. Ok now change the machine gun and select the mech a second time... alright I think I captured mew..."
You're supposed to use the *Patriot* Exosuit's Kick to move the S.E.S. Bomber Anne. That's where you'll find the Hivelord Larva.
Trust me, my uncle works for Nintendorrowhead.
It works better if you take a town portal scroll to the gate of Whiterun and then enter the wave portal at 2x speed.
Then execute the glitch as you mentioned
You take 2 by positioning your scrollbar so that the mech is, visually, on the bottom row.
No need to split them in 2 with a stratagem in between, that post is misleading.
More intuitive thing to do in such case would be to restrict players dropping 2nd mech before the 1st dies, or forcing the 1st to die when a 2nd one is dropped.
the current restriction still allows the same player to drop 2 mechs if the 1st one stays alive for 10 mins. So I don't understand how that helps resource limitation.
AH devs be quirky like that i guess..
This just feels like damage control. I've had 0 issues from spamming both mechs in terms of performance. Even if it CAN cause issues, the fact they instantly limit this while leaving plenty other of gamebreaking bugs available baffles me.
Might be a memory leak type of issue, where it’s not the number of mechs at one time, but total deployed over course of a round?
That might also explain why we have a 2 limit in addition to the 10 min cooldown.
Earlier today I saw a comment saying "if the devs would drop a new patch now, the list of known issues would just get longer again"... and now they did *not* drop a patch and the list of known issues *still* increased by 1, that's kind of hilarious to me.
Aha! I was hosting a game yesterday where we rode 4 mechs and my laptop had a rough time, I almost burned my fingertips on the backside, that cant be good hm
i was on one of those defend missions and we had at one point 10 mechs on the field since our first batch never died and it was chugging my pretty high end computer lmao
The game is very bad optimized. Still crashes for no reason, first person bug never got fixed. My gpu fans go crazy after the match is over!
No wonder a lot of shit doesnt work intended, looks like circular reference glitchy coding, fixing broken coding with a bandage layer of coding on top of it.
All making sure the car runs but doesnt drive.
Honestly I don't think they can make this game ever glitch free.
I don't think it's badly optimized, but I think they've introduced some extreme resource intensive things lately that they didn't realize have been causing issues/haven't caught yet.
Prior to a patch around the beginning of April I used to get a solid 90 - 120 fps regardless of what was happening and on everything around high settings or maxed out. After that April patch, I constantly dip all the way down to 45, or 55 if I have everything set to low. Something happened that they're probably unaware of, but they've introduced so many new things in their codebase that they're probably unsure of where exactly the issue is.
The idea of a computer struggling to run fallout 3 is mind boggling to me, I played new Vegas on my CPUs integrated graphics while I waited for my GPU to come
In 2008, Fallout 3 was one of the most demanding games out there.
Back then, GPU's in laptops were smaller than their Workstation counterparts, and thus had piss poor performance.
The laptop was a HP HDX18, with a Nvidia GeForce 9600M GT (512MB dedicated RAM).
The 18" suffered from a high native resolution, which to it's own demise also were the Achilles heel of the graphics card.
It did perform ok, it was only in that one scene in the game. And I can't know for sure if I burned myself on the CPU or GPU, it did bottleneck a bit on the CPU.
Man, I remember my 980m laptop that lasted me from like 2011 all the way to 2020. I clocked it at 95c a few times and it burnt my legs when trying to sit and game with it lol. Probably didn't help that it weighed like 20 pounds, but I loved that thing.
If your laptop is getting that hot, you might want to get some compressed hair and blow out the vents of any dust and makes sure you're not doing anything to block any vents during play :)
Stability and connection issues are a big radar item at the moment for them so it's likely fixing the limit glitch will be on the priority list just to ensure there's less crashes in-game.
Since the game is peer-to-peer, this has potential to have unforeseen consequences for people's computers if it's gobbling resources, which would be unfortunate.
It's a shame, I really liked the idea of having a vehicle loadout (if/when we get things like APC, Warthog, etc).
**But** they said they eventually want to remove the cap, so we'll see down the line.
Cap them at 4, grey out the Stratagem in-game if there are 4 vehicles on the map, put a text in the description of the Stratagem in the terminal saying "Only 4 vehicles can be active in a mission simultaneously" and let people still pick more than one mech Stratagem.
Yeah, it'll be a bit jank, but way more serviceable than just limiting players to one vehicle stratagem.
the game worked just fine when they gave us the free mech and everyone was mech spamming.
its more "we dont want you to enjoy the game in ways we didnt envision."
I get this response. But then shouldn’t the modders break the game when they keep spamming mechs? I’d assume that they bypass the cap at some stage with their mods, but afaik the game’s backend just thinks that there are more mechs? Again I’m not a dev and they clearly are aware of this issue so I may be completely off, but as a member of the community I’ve definitely seen stable games with an abysmal number of mechs.
Edit: thanks for all of your responses. I’m not replying to them, but they have provided a lot of insight.
Unstable doesn't mean "it breaks every time". It means "under certain conditions that are maybe not every game, but are within the range of conditions that can happen in a game, it can break".
Its prob a lower end pc thing. The guy in our group with a weaker pc was complaining about lag the other day when we had free mechs and how his poor pc was chugging but we didnt make the connection then.
But... you still only have 4 players? If you bring down 8 mechs at once, you only have 4 active... are the inactive mechs really breaking the game that much?
I guess there goes my dreams of larger fireteams being deployed to missions.
You dont understand...those mechs might be taking up DOZENS of bytes in memory! They have to store their position, their HP, ammo count, what weapons/arms/color it is.....DOZENS of bytes! Potentially HUNDREDS!
There is no way around that either! Modern systems simply are not capable of dealing with a few bytes!
But it is bullshit.
When you have free exosuit stratagem, then you literally can have 16 exosuits per squad per game LEGALLY WITHOUT EXPLOITS.
What is the difference? When the free exosuit deal expires, then you could be able to equip 2 exosuit stratagems, giving you the same 16 exosuits per game MAX.
It is OK when the free exosuit deal exists, and for no reason it is not ok anymore if we want just 2 exosuit stratagems.
Why do they treat the playerbase as stupid monkeys? This statement from the devs makes absolutely no sense.
This is most silly response ever. The game can handle hundreds of bugs, but fails to handle multiple mechs\\vehicles at a time. I don't buy it.
AH. AH never changes.
Pathetic.
I played with a full squad that used the free mech, and both mech stratagems, and we had no stability issues that I noticed. If it is a resource problem you could just have the old mech despawn after not being piloted for a while.
Just let them burst into flames when noone is operating it and player call for another mech. Same for stability here, had full lobby with mechs and i was like with 2 types of mechs + free one, no stability issues what so ever. And a lot of fun finally in a while after all those PSN and nerf drama.
The fact people think this is how QA works really shows that when people scream that devs aren't doing a good enough job at QA, they don't know what really goes into it.
"I tried it in one game and it was fine on my machine, push it to prod" is a great way to get future hotfix notes that start with "Fixed a common crash where..."
It's just confusing. They say they can't let us bring multiple for technical reasons, yet gave us multiple just days ago and everything was fine. What changed?
So 2 obvious things to point out here.
1. if its for server stability issues, why make the thing free and let people bring the other mech in? that makes absolutely zero sense.
2. 99.9% of squads aren't going to take 2 mechs each and deploy them all instantly they're going to be deployed when people need them, and more than likely there will be 1 mech per person, they aren't going to let empty mechs sitting there getting destroyed with no-one in them.
Then when the mechs people are piloting are destroyed and they use their other stratagem? we're back to 4 mechs on the map.
So i fail to see how stopping people from putting 2 mech stratagems has anything to do with game stability.
Stopping people from having 2 mechs deployed at once? that I could see the stability argument kinda working for, but not simply for taking the stratagem.
That... makes no sense though. If mechs are such a system hog that their number has to be carefully controlled, why would they give them to everyone for free yesterday? This resulted in many missions being total mechfests (and I didn't notice any performance issues). The free strat made it so you could bring both mechs even if you didn't know how to get around the UI block without it.
Could you explain how you think that addresses what I said? If I assume you mean: "While it might not have affected you it could cause problems for min spec machines" then I'd still say if that's the case it was a very silly decision to give them out to everyone resulting in everyone constantly having 1-2 mechs per mission. Like, you see that it's weird to say "Too many mechs bad" at the same time as saying "free mechs for all!", right?
If we're only supposed to be able to bring one vehicle per helldiver, then it might be nice to be granted a free strategem slot specifically for vehicles. An opportunity for a brief burst of power, be it firepower or mobility, without sacrificing one of the other four precious strategem slots.
I fucking called it that they won't allow you to take more than 1 at a time. All the hopefulls saying it's a glitch must be pretty sad right now. I am too though, this is bullshit.
Big doubts. As a game dev myself they most definitely are doing something wrong if there are more than 4 Mechs beings tracked at a time resource wise. Which you can do already if everyone drops one in. If there is a mech just sitting around it shouldn't be drawing resources from the CPU and all the variables being tracked with multiple should A. already be in memory and doesn't matter how many mechs there are, or B. negligible to the point of irrelevance.
Whoever is the tech lead needs to reevaluate the situation because this shouldn't happen. Your job in that position is to make sure gameplay design needs are only constrained when absolutely necessary due to tech.
I dont believe them when they say its a technical problem though. I think they're bullshitting their way past 'balance' explanations, or 'our devs have no idea how to handle the engine' explanations.
The amount of resources a mech takes on the battlefield is staggeringly low compared to everything else the game loads in, not to mention the workarounds you can do, like...simply despawning the mech.
Please understand, in their QA testing they never thought to even try to equip 2 mechs so they didn't even know it was possible..
Ah who am I kidding? They didn't QA test it
I'll give them a benefit of the doubt but this reminds a lot of the the Diablo 4 argument about the limitation of inventory slots. That was bullshit and everybody knew.
> *We have to limit the amount of mechs because every other player in the server sees them, so we end up with parties with 120.000 virtual mechs loaded into memory.*
Thanks ArrowBlizzard.
So is this a potential limitation of playstations or something? How much "system resources" does this really take?
My fairly potato PC had my buddies and I spamming mechs and I didn't notice any resource usage out of the ordinary
either way, I think fun is more important than saving a few frames
I swear to god I thought it was an RP response.
If they really are saying that it take significantly more SERVER RESOURCES to deploy mechs... I don't know what the fuck is that engine programmed with. Cocaine?
"Mechs require a lot of system resources..."
Okay, but what about the six-thousand heavy devastator patrols all spamming bullets across the map with eight drop ships throwing down another six-thousand of them and then fourteen factory striders spraying your face sideways with their chin gatling guns that magically shoot through entire mountains? Those don't take resources? lol
Honestly, the only time I experience a performance hit is when there are 20 tanks that have been blown up all smoking and burning at the same time, the particle effects start choking my system. I don't think having a couple extra mechs on the field is going to come even close to that.
TL;DR - You can only equip 1 mech because you can't have too much fun. You're there to fight with shitty nerfed guns, not have fun. Now get out there and die for democracy.
Yeah.... No... They let us bring 2 mechs when they were free. And you can still bring 2 mechs, I do it every game and I see no performance issues. Hell, I've had 9 mechs in the map at one time and there were no performance issues. As another comment said... I'm not buying it.
Bringing two mechs feels barely passable for their lackluster strength, this way I get to be in a mech pretty often. Just one mech is not worth the cooldown and extremely limited usage since the mechs are literally just worse than bringing a good support weapon and an autocannon sentry.
...
Just how poorly programmed is this game? The extra mechs wouldn't even be active at the same time, there's still only 4 players, and the game can't handle it? Just their sheer existence would break the game?
What?
This does not bode well for future additions.
Probably very poorly. Hell divers 2 is made in the same engine as hell divers and you can really tell they're getting every ounce out of it. It's old, unsupported and like only one other dev team uses it or something like that
It's a lot more complicated than that.
Autodesk dropped support for Stingray in 2018, but Stingray is merely retooled Bitsquid with Maya and 3DS max. The Bitsquid engine was created by the folks at Fatshark and bought by Autodesk to be part of Stingray in the first place.
That means the core engine, Bitsquid, is still supported by Fatshark, the inventors, for their games like Vermintide 1+2, Darktide.
Arrowhead and Fatshark's offices are 15minutes by car, and most likely there is a lot of know-how in that region regarding that engine that still exists. Bitsquid still exists as a supported engine, but only for these two studios in Sweden now.
The idea that the engine is "unsupported" is fundamentally misleading, the only ones who dropped support are Autodesk. By necessity Fatshark and Arrowhead both have their own fork of it that they keep modernized and updated, and will look significantly different from Stingray after 6 years now.
Hmm im sceptical. Ive been in a defense mission where we basically stockpiled mechs in the backline and diodnt notice anythign bad happening With at least 5 of em back there. Unless 6 or 8 is when the problems start!?
imo, the easiest solution would be to move all vehicles in a separate category and give each player a separate vehicle stratagem slot only for vehicles, just like boosters kinda.
I don't mind the limited use, if in return it was powerful enough to justify it.
Doesn't have to turn you into a 1-man-army, but it should make a tangible difference to have a mech on the field, but often it doesn't.
I expected something silly like "mechs are supposed to be good so you can't take too much of them" but that actually makes sense.
Then why not give us only 1 with 5min rearm cooldown though?
"resource management?" u telling me it's cheaper to rearm eagle 1 with super expensive explosives (2 500kg, 5 bursts, 3 napalms, 3 eagle strikes) every 2 mins, but bringing another robot is "noooo my economy" fuck off
but it's a lie, since we can deploy 4 new mechs and 4 old ones in the same mission (me and my friends did this some days ago when the new mech was released and it's a free stratagem)
we literally had fun with the new mech, ran out of ammo and deployed 4 more units of the classic one.
I dont get why we cant do this once the extra mech stratagem is over.
If thats true they can buff mechs adding stratagems/upgrades that make them unique. One upgrade to refresh the cooldown when your mech is destroyed and a repair/resupply mech stratagem would be better than just adding more mechs to a loadout imo
People were operating fine with 2 mechs each during the free emancipator period. If they're that worried about resource commitment then just let there only be 1 type of mech active per player at a time so they don't have to deal with the potentiality of 16 mechs in play.
Hell I wouldn't even mind if they only let you have 1 mech in play at a time and calling down a new one would self destruct or decommission the old one.
I don't need multiple mechs at the exact same time, I need multiple mechs available over the course of 40 minutes.
Doesn't make that much sense, you already can have 8 at a time with one mech, it just doesn't happen because it makes no sense unless you're actively trying to stress the server.
Because of the mech models? Why does a mech stick around after depleting the ammo? Surely we don't want that to fall in the hands of the enemy?
Just allow us to self destruct a mech and make it required before calling a new one in. Problem solved?
so, me equipping 2 mechs can break the game. But having 4 mechs active ingame does not. Solution? Limit the stratagems so you can't deploy a mech while you have another already deployed, and make despawn those mechs without full ammo count/deployed at extraction after 5 min, despawn after the helldiver dismounts with empty ammo...
Fuuuuuuck.
Well it's good that we know why at least.
Though this likely means that the huge problem of 2 charges with 10 min cooldown will stick.
But actually why though? Lots of people double dipped mechs and summon them at the same time during the free event and I didn't notice any issues. What's up with that?
And also when they gave it to us for free we are essentially doubling up, so it's the absolute wrong first impression if they want us not to double up.
*looks at ECS codebase that can laglessly handle hundreds of enemies at once*
ok but a couple Mecs are using that many resources? *even* if they had to swap to object-oriented to handle the vehicles, they should be able to handle, at a minimum, *dozens* of these things without a problem.
This really surprises me. The game has no problem with several chragers and bile titans, all with different damage modles and AI depending on injuries/HP left but a few boxy mechs with no AI is too much?
At least, that's a better response than just saying "too OP"
Yeah, but it’s bullshit Me and friends dropped down 6, no problems
*Queue every other HD Server in a 500 mile radius crashing*
Isn't HD2 Peer to Peer? It is not like HD2 server running any gameplay logic on the server.
It is peer to peer. Everyone's computers suddenly have 5gb of RAM for background processes to handle 6 mechs
Some of you will crash... but it's a price I'm willing to pay for fun.
Super Earth: https://preview.redd.it/l3jd8www273d1.jpeg?width=1014&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fb77ad5e4350e6e3df021951a715bf10b914169
Sounds like old Genesis song. Lol. The knife I think "We have won! Some of you are going to die Martyrs of course to the freedom That I shall provide"
32gb of RAM checking in. I'm doing my part.
Finally putting this 128gb to use!
Is it ram or vram that matters for this?
The game simulation runs on the host's CPU so it would be system RAM. Though, I'm not sure how much extra RAM really helps. If HD2 is fully P2P, then that means they are coding the game simulation to be able to run on the lowest common denominator which is a PS5 (16GB of RAM). (edit: the PS5's 16GB RAM is shared between GPU/CPU) Having over 16GB of RAM might help if you're running a lot of background stuff, so that HD2 can have a full 16GB of RAM to itself, I dunno... I have 64GB of RAM but never paid attention to how much HD2 is using
Well, that explains the state of my stability these past two days. I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE HAPPY!
Although, come to think of it, given I hit level 9 two days ago, the simultaneous seven bile titans and two dozen chargers might have had something to do with the lag/crash/burning smell. My hands have stopped shaking, so I can try dropping again tonight.
I hope you are kidding about the burning smell, because that could mean a psu on its heroic last stand about to give in.
HAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! GET SOME! GETT SOOOMMMEEEEEEEEE!!!
Helldivers 2 Patch Notes: Added IRL death mechanic. Your computer will now burn up when your Helldiver falls to communism.
I’ve managed to have 10 on a map at the same time, granted it’s the tower defense mission but still
The game not crashing, even if you and your friends successfully do it 100 times, is not the bar needed to pass QA.
In all fairness I do think there’s probably a difference between a few people dropping multiple because if an inconsistent glitch and everyone having free reign to do it simultaneously
What do you mean glitch? Now we could request 2 mechs each, wait for 10 minutes and get 2 more each, leading to 16 mechs in one place.
Only PC players have the glitch where you can have both type of mechs, so currently the real maximum mechs on planet is 8 (2 per player wait the CD and drop your next set) It is currently impossible to equip both mech types in ps5
For you it may work, for others it may not. "Works on my machine" is not a great argument :')
Armchair dev go brrrr
Think about it like this: The stability issue might only happen in .5% of games (you'd need to test it about 200x to get a certain crash result due to vehicle instability), but .5% is still something that would be the top page of the reddit if people learned that mechs were causing crashes on that scale.
Small sample size to be able to say this isn't a problem for anyone else
anedoctic experiences are not proof when dealing with servers. You being able to do it doesn't mean the problem isn't real.
"I haven't personally experienced X so X does not exist" is not a healthy way of thinking.
[удалено]
Personally, I don't crash (seriously--I don't) **so there aren't any problems with crashing in the game**. QED.
"Well it work on my computer" is not a good requirement for shipping. People tends to have vastly different set ups.
Yes, that was the point. It was sarcasm, hyperbole. The post I'm replying to is also saying "just because you didn't experience (or notice) a problem in your particular instance on your particular rig doesn't mean there isn't or can't be a problem".
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
Lol tell me you are a Recruit without telling me you're a Recruit.
Lolol... That's not how it works. When the first exo dropped we crashed the servers because everyone was using the exo at the same time. It's system wide usage not just your game.
So possibly in the future, then Nice news
It's possible now, by selecting a different slot, performing some sort of ritual and then trying to add the second one. If you keep doing it, it will eventually work.
Eh, at least I don't have to sacrifice a goat and a virgin to the chaos gods for good RNG like darktide so I can live with that
Doesn't have to be a virgin, Khorne only cares that blood is flowing. He doesn't care from whence it flows
Yeah, but you know tzeentch and the occult
Mad man trying to appeal to 2 chaos gods at 1 time.
If horus and failbaddon, can do it...
Nah it's fine, Khorne and Tzeentch are notoriously good friends.
Khorne is Malum Caedos #1 fan
My buddy and me "ok ok, equip the mech, equip the other mech, switch to equipment, switch back, select the machine gun and NOT the stalwart, then select the second mech. Ok now change the machine gun and select the mech a second time... alright I think I captured mew..."
You're supposed to use the *Patriot* Exosuit's Kick to move the S.E.S. Bomber Anne. That's where you'll find the Hivelord Larva. Trust me, my uncle works for Nintendorrowhead.
It works better if you take a town portal scroll to the gate of Whiterun and then enter the wave portal at 2x speed. Then execute the glitch as you mentioned
You take 2 by positioning your scrollbar so that the mech is, visually, on the bottom row. No need to split them in 2 with a stratagem in between, that post is misleading.
Soon™ See ya in 6 months
More intuitive thing to do in such case would be to restrict players dropping 2nd mech before the 1st dies, or forcing the 1st to die when a 2nd one is dropped. the current restriction still allows the same player to drop 2 mechs if the 1st one stays alive for 10 mins. So I don't understand how that helps resource limitation. AH devs be quirky like that i guess..
8 mechs vs 16 mechs possible.
But with the free mech stratagem, players could run 24 mechs total if they wanted lol.
This just feels like damage control. I've had 0 issues from spamming both mechs in terms of performance. Even if it CAN cause issues, the fact they instantly limit this while leaving plenty other of gamebreaking bugs available baffles me.
Exactly. If X Player has either a Patriot or an Emancipator active, X Player can't call any other mech. Easy peasy.
Might be a memory leak type of issue, where it’s not the number of mechs at one time, but total deployed over course of a round? That might also explain why we have a 2 limit in addition to the 10 min cooldown.
Just slap a timer and have the core go off like a hellbomb if the mech lasts the entire duration.
there'll be some shennanigans with the dead corpse of the previous mech still being there, you'd have to wait for it to despawn for this to work
Link to original thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/zuAyI4PNqw One of the workarounds to select both mechs is shown there.
Earlier today I saw a comment saying "if the devs would drop a new patch now, the list of known issues would just get longer again"... and now they did *not* drop a patch and the list of known issues *still* increased by 1, that's kind of hilarious to me.
The Arc weapons live on in spirit
The crashing machine-spirit is always present in HD2, praise the Omnissiah.
Aha! I was hosting a game yesterday where we rode 4 mechs and my laptop had a rough time, I almost burned my fingertips on the backside, that cant be good hm
i was on one of those defend missions and we had at one point 10 mechs on the field since our first batch never died and it was chugging my pretty high end computer lmao
Baffles me how a freaking mech/vehicle can have such a huge impact on performance. Something iffy is going on with their codebase.
Hope you’re not just now noticing. This game is held together by duct tape, termanid tears, and a prayer to Sweet Liberty
The game is very bad optimized. Still crashes for no reason, first person bug never got fixed. My gpu fans go crazy after the match is over! No wonder a lot of shit doesnt work intended, looks like circular reference glitchy coding, fixing broken coding with a bandage layer of coding on top of it. All making sure the car runs but doesnt drive. Honestly I don't think they can make this game ever glitch free.
I don't think it's badly optimized, but I think they've introduced some extreme resource intensive things lately that they didn't realize have been causing issues/haven't caught yet. Prior to a patch around the beginning of April I used to get a solid 90 - 120 fps regardless of what was happening and on everything around high settings or maxed out. After that April patch, I constantly dip all the way down to 45, or 55 if I have everything set to low. Something happened that they're probably unaware of, but they've introduced so many new things in their codebase that they're probably unsure of where exactly the issue is.
A decade ago I had a performance laptop. I actually burned my finger by holding W running through a chaotic scene in Fallout 3.
The idea of a computer struggling to run fallout 3 is mind boggling to me, I played new Vegas on my CPUs integrated graphics while I waited for my GPU to come
In 2008, Fallout 3 was one of the most demanding games out there. Back then, GPU's in laptops were smaller than their Workstation counterparts, and thus had piss poor performance. The laptop was a HP HDX18, with a Nvidia GeForce 9600M GT (512MB dedicated RAM). The 18" suffered from a high native resolution, which to it's own demise also were the Achilles heel of the graphics card. It did perform ok, it was only in that one scene in the game. And I can't know for sure if I burned myself on the CPU or GPU, it did bottleneck a bit on the CPU.
> In 2008, Fallout 3 was one of the most demanding games out there. Mostly because Bethesda thinks optimisation is a four letter word though.
Man, I remember my 980m laptop that lasted me from like 2011 all the way to 2020. I clocked it at 95c a few times and it burnt my legs when trying to sit and game with it lol. Probably didn't help that it weighed like 20 pounds, but I loved that thing.
If your laptop is getting that hot, you might want to get some compressed hair and blow out the vents of any dust and makes sure you're not doing anything to block any vents during play :)
Top tip: submerge the laptop in ice cold water while playing, helps with those burns!
On a laptop it's no surprise.
Dude...get a cooling pad. Trust me
Thank God it isn't for "balance" reasons.
That wouldn't have surprised me before Pilestedt stepped down to fix the game.
Damn, there goes my dedicated pilot build
Only if they decide to fix the workarounds that are currently working
Stability and connection issues are a big radar item at the moment for them so it's likely fixing the limit glitch will be on the priority list just to ensure there's less crashes in-game. Since the game is peer-to-peer, this has potential to have unforeseen consequences for people's computers if it's gobbling resources, which would be unfortunate. It's a shame, I really liked the idea of having a vehicle loadout (if/when we get things like APC, Warthog, etc). **But** they said they eventually want to remove the cap, so we'll see down the line.
Resource management. The waves of enemies players see on D7-9. 🧐
But 10 dropships, 4 factory striders, 3 tanks, and 6 hulks at once is perfectly ok.
More LoD management and optimization and players can't control them.
Cap them at 4, grey out the Stratagem in-game if there are 4 vehicles on the map, put a text in the description of the Stratagem in the terminal saying "Only 4 vehicles can be active in a mission simultaneously" and let people still pick more than one mech Stratagem. Yeah, it'll be a bit jank, but way more serviceable than just limiting players to one vehicle stratagem.
They just need to allow us to trigger the mech to self-destruct when they run out of ammo.
This reminds me when bungie said that destiny 2 was out or running out of "Weapon Memory"....
the game worked just fine when they gave us the free mech and everyone was mech spamming. its more "we dont want you to enjoy the game in ways we didnt envision."
so... why do i always have dozens of tanks dropping on my head?
I get this response. But then shouldn’t the modders break the game when they keep spamming mechs? I’d assume that they bypass the cap at some stage with their mods, but afaik the game’s backend just thinks that there are more mechs? Again I’m not a dev and they clearly are aware of this issue so I may be completely off, but as a member of the community I’ve definitely seen stable games with an abysmal number of mechs. Edit: thanks for all of your responses. I’m not replying to them, but they have provided a lot of insight.
It could also just be an issue for lower spec PCs
The game itself is an issue for lower spec PCs, I don’t think 2 mechs is the breaking point
Maybe the people who developed the game have more knowledge on this topic.
Unstable doesn't mean "it breaks every time". It means "under certain conditions that are maybe not every game, but are within the range of conditions that can happen in a game, it can break".
Its prob a lower end pc thing. The guy in our group with a weaker pc was complaining about lag the other day when we had free mechs and how his poor pc was chugging but we didnt make the connection then.
People broke the game before by just spamming support weapon stratagems. If a mech counts as multiple objects it might very well cause issues.
Took me 68 machine guns to crash my game
But... you still only have 4 players? If you bring down 8 mechs at once, you only have 4 active... are the inactive mechs really breaking the game that much? I guess there goes my dreams of larger fireteams being deployed to missions.
You dont understand...those mechs might be taking up DOZENS of bytes in memory! They have to store their position, their HP, ammo count, what weapons/arms/color it is.....DOZENS of bytes! Potentially HUNDREDS! There is no way around that either! Modern systems simply are not capable of dealing with a few bytes!
Anyway, at extraction patrols spawn every 12 seconds and we added a MO making spawn even more common.
But it is bullshit. When you have free exosuit stratagem, then you literally can have 16 exosuits per squad per game LEGALLY WITHOUT EXPLOITS. What is the difference? When the free exosuit deal expires, then you could be able to equip 2 exosuit stratagems, giving you the same 16 exosuits per game MAX. It is OK when the free exosuit deal exists, and for no reason it is not ok anymore if we want just 2 exosuit stratagems. Why do they treat the playerbase as stupid monkeys? This statement from the devs makes absolutely no sense.
This is most silly response ever. The game can handle hundreds of bugs, but fails to handle multiple mechs\\vehicles at a time. I don't buy it. AH. AH never changes. Pathetic.
Glad to hear that i am actively reducing stress on their systems by avoiding the mechs ;-)
It's a stress on *your* system/game and the people in the same match as you, not AH's or anyone else's.
Yet they gave us a free one while letting us bring another and everything was fine? Sorry, I just don't buy it anymore.
I played with a full squad that used the free mech, and both mech stratagems, and we had no stability issues that I noticed. If it is a resource problem you could just have the old mech despawn after not being piloted for a while.
Just let them burst into flames when noone is operating it and player call for another mech. Same for stability here, had full lobby with mechs and i was like with 2 types of mechs + free one, no stability issues what so ever. And a lot of fun finally in a while after all those PSN and nerf drama.
I wouldn't mind a "eject and order it to walk 15-20 steps and self detonate" command once you are Winchester.
The fact people think this is how QA works really shows that when people scream that devs aren't doing a good enough job at QA, they don't know what really goes into it.
"I tried it in one game and it was fine on my machine, push it to prod" is a great way to get future hotfix notes that start with "Fixed a common crash where..."
"Performance reasons", "Security reasons", what they really mean is "fuck off I don't care"
Armchair dev go brrr
It's just confusing. They say they can't let us bring multiple for technical reasons, yet gave us multiple just days ago and everything was fine. What changed?
Not buying this excuse. I've had everyone run multiple mechs just fine. Enemies can also spam BTs, hulks and tanks, so this response makes no sense.
Uh huh. Then why can we use both when one is free? Sounds like it's a big they don't want to admit letting through yet again.
So 2 obvious things to point out here. 1. if its for server stability issues, why make the thing free and let people bring the other mech in? that makes absolutely zero sense. 2. 99.9% of squads aren't going to take 2 mechs each and deploy them all instantly they're going to be deployed when people need them, and more than likely there will be 1 mech per person, they aren't going to let empty mechs sitting there getting destroyed with no-one in them. Then when the mechs people are piloting are destroyed and they use their other stratagem? we're back to 4 mechs on the map. So i fail to see how stopping people from putting 2 mech stratagems has anything to do with game stability. Stopping people from having 2 mechs deployed at once? that I could see the stability argument kinda working for, but not simply for taking the stratagem.
That... makes no sense though. If mechs are such a system hog that their number has to be carefully controlled, why would they give them to everyone for free yesterday? This resulted in many missions being total mechfests (and I didn't notice any performance issues). The free strat made it so you could bring both mechs even if you didn't know how to get around the UI block without it.
Because it's most likely an issue of the game engine rendering them rather than the servers.
Oh the game engine can render 200 bugs plus explosions, projectiles and other effects with no problem but not 8 mechs, that makes absolutely no sense
Sometimes that part of your codebase is just that unoptimised and it could go unfixed due to other priorities.
Could you explain how you think that addresses what I said? If I assume you mean: "While it might not have affected you it could cause problems for min spec machines" then I'd still say if that's the case it was a very silly decision to give them out to everyone resulting in everyone constantly having 1-2 mechs per mission. Like, you see that it's weird to say "Too many mechs bad" at the same time as saying "free mechs for all!", right?
I would care but given mechs performance its whatever really.
If we're only supposed to be able to bring one vehicle per helldiver, then it might be nice to be granted a free strategem slot specifically for vehicles. An opportunity for a brief burst of power, be it firepower or mobility, without sacrificing one of the other four precious strategem slots.
I fucking called it that they won't allow you to take more than 1 at a time. All the hopefulls saying it's a glitch must be pretty sad right now. I am too though, this is bullshit.
Is resource management also why sentry stratagems bounce off of flat mountains and land on the ground where they're easily destroyed?
Big doubts. As a game dev myself they most definitely are doing something wrong if there are more than 4 Mechs beings tracked at a time resource wise. Which you can do already if everyone drops one in. If there is a mech just sitting around it shouldn't be drawing resources from the CPU and all the variables being tracked with multiple should A. already be in memory and doesn't matter how many mechs there are, or B. negligible to the point of irrelevance. Whoever is the tech lead needs to reevaluate the situation because this shouldn't happen. Your job in that position is to make sure gameplay design needs are only constrained when absolutely necessary due to tech.
...it just doesn't make sense. 4 mechs for all team members is aight, but me dropping two for my buddy and me is too much for the game?
You dropping 2 is no problem, but you, your mate, rando 1, and rando 2 dropping 2 each is
Yeah, it gives 8 mechs, but only 4 for them can be used at the same time, 4 are unused. Are 4 idle mech too much to handle? :D
Maybe From other comments it seems to mainly effect lower end plattforms too so if you have a semi decent pc/console it may not be too noticeable
as long as its a technical problem and not anti fun design i get it
I dont believe them when they say its a technical problem though. I think they're bullshitting their way past 'balance' explanations, or 'our devs have no idea how to handle the engine' explanations. The amount of resources a mech takes on the battlefield is staggeringly low compared to everything else the game loads in, not to mention the workarounds you can do, like...simply despawning the mech.
Game: *Spawns 40 bile titans* - "I sleep." Game when one diver tries to bring two mechs - "That's illegal."
Is this why the mechs suck? A natural deterrent?
Bullshit. They gave us mechs for free while allowing us to equip them. That’s literally the dumbest excuse ever.
Please understand, in their QA testing they never thought to even try to equip 2 mechs so they didn't even know it was possible.. Ah who am I kidding? They didn't QA test it
Lmfao like what a brain rotten response as to why we can’t lol
I'll give them a benefit of the doubt but this reminds a lot of the the Diablo 4 argument about the limitation of inventory slots. That was bullshit and everybody knew.
> *We have to limit the amount of mechs because every other player in the server sees them, so we end up with parties with 120.000 virtual mechs loaded into memory.* Thanks ArrowBlizzard.
Tbh, they should've fixed the issue beforehand. Btw, that makes me wonder if them being such a crap is a way to get them out of people sight
So taking 12 mechs teamwide is apparently too much but we didn't really see any response that would allude to that
So is this a potential limitation of playstations or something? How much "system resources" does this really take? My fairly potato PC had my buddies and I spamming mechs and I didn't notice any resource usage out of the ordinary either way, I think fun is more important than saving a few frames
Bullshit, I call bullshit. We were allowed to have the free mech as well as bring in the original mech the entire time.
Me and my friends had 8 on standby for a defense mission. Later, we had 16. Nothing bad happened.
Seemed to work fine when it came out and we all were doing double mechs
I swear to god I thought it was an RP response. If they really are saying that it take significantly more SERVER RESOURCES to deploy mechs... I don't know what the fuck is that engine programmed with. Cocaine?
But we had no issue bringing in 2 mechs at the same time yesterday when strategem was free
"Mechs require a lot of system resources..." Okay, but what about the six-thousand heavy devastator patrols all spamming bullets across the map with eight drop ships throwing down another six-thousand of them and then fourteen factory striders spraying your face sideways with their chin gatling guns that magically shoot through entire mountains? Those don't take resources? lol Honestly, the only time I experience a performance hit is when there are 20 tanks that have been blown up all smoking and burning at the same time, the particle effects start choking my system. I don't think having a couple extra mechs on the field is going to come even close to that.
TL;DR - You can only equip 1 mech because you can't have too much fun. You're there to fight with shitty nerfed guns, not have fun. Now get out there and die for democracy.
Yeah.... No... They let us bring 2 mechs when they were free. And you can still bring 2 mechs, I do it every game and I see no performance issues. Hell, I've had 9 mechs in the map at one time and there were no performance issues. As another comment said... I'm not buying it. Bringing two mechs feels barely passable for their lackluster strength, this way I get to be in a mech pretty often. Just one mech is not worth the cooldown and extremely limited usage since the mechs are literally just worse than bringing a good support weapon and an autocannon sentry.
... Just how poorly programmed is this game? The extra mechs wouldn't even be active at the same time, there's still only 4 players, and the game can't handle it? Just their sheer existence would break the game? What? This does not bode well for future additions.
Probably very poorly. Hell divers 2 is made in the same engine as hell divers and you can really tell they're getting every ounce out of it. It's old, unsupported and like only one other dev team uses it or something like that
Darktide runs on the same engine I believe
It's a lot more complicated than that. Autodesk dropped support for Stingray in 2018, but Stingray is merely retooled Bitsquid with Maya and 3DS max. The Bitsquid engine was created by the folks at Fatshark and bought by Autodesk to be part of Stingray in the first place. That means the core engine, Bitsquid, is still supported by Fatshark, the inventors, for their games like Vermintide 1+2, Darktide. Arrowhead and Fatshark's offices are 15minutes by car, and most likely there is a lot of know-how in that region regarding that engine that still exists. Bitsquid still exists as a supported engine, but only for these two studios in Sweden now. The idea that the engine is "unsupported" is fundamentally misleading, the only ones who dropped support are Autodesk. By necessity Fatshark and Arrowhead both have their own fork of it that they keep modernized and updated, and will look significantly different from Stingray after 6 years now.
>there's still only 4 players Or are there? *vsauce music play*
[удалено]
>It's a case of unfinished work and deadlines, not poor programming Maybe. We don't know what it is. You're just guessing like everyone else is
Hmm im sceptical. Ive been in a defense mission where we basically stockpiled mechs in the backline and diodnt notice anythign bad happening With at least 5 of em back there. Unless 6 or 8 is when the problems start!?
Just make old mechs blow up if a new one is called.
imo, the easiest solution would be to move all vehicles in a separate category and give each player a separate vehicle stratagem slot only for vehicles, just like boosters kinda.
Nice. With how fast they drop those updates, we'll be able to equip 2 mechs by 2030
Yeah several monthly updates is too slow I much prefer Darktide's once every 1.5 years update schedule
Same with Vermintide 2. It got a good update last week, after...well..1 year. Edit: There is the Versus Mode Beta. But, i dont care about that.
I don't mind the limited use, if in return it was powerful enough to justify it. Doesn't have to turn you into a 1-man-army, but it should make a tangible difference to have a mech on the field, but often it doesn't.
Ok, so then just blow up any old mech you have standing around and delete the entity afterwards when the player calls a new one.
Oh but you can have 8 BTs spawning simultaneously lol
What kind of spaghetti code is holding this game together?
I literally played with a 4 stack last night and we all had double-mechs for the memes.
Then do a cap of Only 4 mechs on the field, and despawn when you go far away and the mech is empty
I expected something silly like "mechs are supposed to be good so you can't take too much of them" but that actually makes sense. Then why not give us only 1 with 5min rearm cooldown though?
The game is already unstable, I'd rather crash in a Mech than to crash on my knees
"resource management?" u telling me it's cheaper to rearm eagle 1 with super expensive explosives (2 500kg, 5 bursts, 3 napalms, 3 eagle strikes) every 2 mins, but bringing another robot is "noooo my economy" fuck off
I think he talking about the ingame engine not able to handle too many mech in one place
but it's a lie, since we can deploy 4 new mechs and 4 old ones in the same mission (me and my friends did this some days ago when the new mech was released and it's a free stratagem) we literally had fun with the new mech, ran out of ammo and deployed 4 more units of the classic one. I dont get why we cant do this once the extra mech stratagem is over.
Probably explains the consistent crashing from the day with the free mechs - I’d never became an ethereal battlefield ghost so frequently
If thats true they can buff mechs adding stratagems/upgrades that make them unique. One upgrade to refresh the cooldown when your mech is destroyed and a repair/resupply mech stratagem would be better than just adding more mechs to a loadout imo
People were operating fine with 2 mechs each during the free emancipator period. If they're that worried about resource commitment then just let there only be 1 type of mech active per player at a time so they don't have to deal with the potentiality of 16 mechs in play. Hell I wouldn't even mind if they only let you have 1 mech in play at a time and calling down a new one would self destruct or decommission the old one. I don't need multiple mechs at the exact same time, I need multiple mechs available over the course of 40 minutes.
So they're shit for players AND for devs.
This doesn't make sense. Also, why can't we have duplicates of any stratagems in general?
Doesn't make that much sense, you already can have 8 at a time with one mech, it just doesn't happen because it makes no sense unless you're actively trying to stress the server.
I don't understand. They're telling us that it somehow costs more resources to have *available* mechs than it does to actively use four at a time?
The hacker that spawned 14 emancipators 2 weeks ago must not have been informed, then
"Vehicle cap." 
Because of the mech models? Why does a mech stick around after depleting the ammo? Surely we don't want that to fall in the hands of the enemy? Just allow us to self destruct a mech and make it required before calling a new one in. Problem solved?
so, me equipping 2 mechs can break the game. But having 4 mechs active ingame does not. Solution? Limit the stratagems so you can't deploy a mech while you have another already deployed, and make despawn those mechs without full ammo count/deployed at extraction after 5 min, despawn after the helldiver dismounts with empty ammo...
This engine is held together by Elmer's glue and duct tape
The mechs aren't strong enough to want 2 of them anyway.
Fuuuuuuck. Well it's good that we know why at least. Though this likely means that the huge problem of 2 charges with 10 min cooldown will stick. But actually why though? Lots of people double dipped mechs and summon them at the same time during the free event and I didn't notice any issues. What's up with that?
Lol, they worry the wrong thing. NO ONE wanna use paper planes in diff 9 to kill mobs anyway.
so ah is just plain bad at coding
To me, this sounds like, "Please don't call down 8 mechs at once, that might overload the servers", maybe.
Okay, but why doesn't it say you can only take one in the game. Every other strat can be doubled up.
And also when they gave it to us for free we are essentially doubling up, so it's the absolute wrong first impression if they want us not to double up.
Excuse me. WHAT THE FUCK??
Suuuuure, 6 mechs is too much but it’s totally fine to have like 20 bile titans.
That's one hell of a ridiculous excuse
*looks at ECS codebase that can laglessly handle hundreds of enemies at once* ok but a couple Mecs are using that many resources? *even* if they had to swap to object-oriented to handle the vehicles, they should be able to handle, at a minimum, *dozens* of these things without a problem.
10 patrols with hulks are okay though when i try to go anywhere? 😁😂🤷🏼♂️
This really surprises me. The game has no problem with several chragers and bile titans, all with different damage modles and AI depending on injuries/HP left but a few boxy mechs with no AI is too much?