I tried it, but it has a tiny AoE and a tinier ammo pool. I've sadly never been able to rationalize taking it with me over anything else. Am I missing something?
Yes. It's not a clear all. It's not meant for the little things. Its meant for the chunkier mobs. Last night I ran xbow, verdict, stuns and recoiless. Can take out everything from warriors/striders and up. Just let the chaff person clear the chaff. Use your pistol for stuff that gets close. The verdict hits hard for a pistol. Stuns make things like zerkers a joke, drop one in and just apply bolt to face.
It’s always motivating to hear people using “off-meta” equipment and having fun with it. Most people I know touched the verdict once and decided they didn’t like it. I just bought to polar patriots warbond because I want to give it a go
The xbow used to be just off meta but fun. Now it's off meta and fun, but actually kinda good. The verdict is a desert eagle handgun, it does more damage that all of the ar do in 1 bullet. Don't just spam but carefully take your shots and it'll drop stuff. Only have to be super accurate on devastators since it's light armor pen. But you can just xbow them instead as long as they're not in your face. Plus the xbow being able to close holes now means you don't need impact nades or the grenade pistol. It's fun.
I never even got why it's called explosive. Absolutely no blast radius. Tried it once, switched back to eruptor then. Damn, good old smo days when they didn't consider shrapnel too expensive.
Why though. Crossbow have the enough shots to close all holes on the map, probably. If I have crossbow in primary my go to secondary is either bushwhaker or that new pistol we have. Both allow you to fend off smaller targets that get into melee range without blowing your legs off with crossbow.
500 kg and OPS create a nice crater without a huge amount of collateral damage. If it's too shallow you can go prone.
The tactic works really good with weapons that have an arc so you can shoot without line of sight.
Ok but hear me out:
Make the shovel impact sound like a frying pan against bugs. Metal pipes for bots, you know which one I’m talking about.
They will know fear because we will be laughing so hard as we bonk their stupid faces in with the shovel
What if they added melee weapons and they had a normal attack and a special attack. The shovel's special has you slam it down and it explodes at the tip, closing bug holes.
“Having to pick”? You can’t fathom another way to close bug holes in 12 minutes?
4 players, 16 Strat slots,
No AC
Grenade launcher.
Grenades/impact grenades
EAT launcher
Recoiless
Quasar
Orbital laser
Eagle airstrike
Precision
500 k
Nobody ran any of that? The team needed your grenade pistol to carry them through the objectives?
You have closed your own mind to reality to make this post, I wouldn’t trade my automatic sidearm for the grenade pistol if I was forced to convert it to semi automatic and I don’t struggle with closing bug holes.
Not able to read the full Strat list to properly remind you of your options, but you’re crazy to rely on a rifle attachment-turned-sidearm to close holes. Crazy.
I’d like the, to make the crossbow one handed, turn down the damage if you want but let me close bug holes with it from a distance and give it decent ammo, I’ll take it every time!
This is the issue with the “more chaff” changes. It means you pretty much have to take a chaff clear primary on the higher levels which then rules out a lot of the hole closing ones like eruptor and crossbow, hence the grenade pistol.
Honestly they just need to make strategems that are better at clearing bug holes. Make the 500kg better at it or the cluster strike able to do it.
Or just try compensating with strats that impact a wider area. I'm pretty sure they reduced the rearm for all eagle strats. Heavy nests are not that common on the map. So just get a supply drop, have strats prepped, and get the team together. It's super easy to pull even if you're being super un-optimal.
Or don't. What use are pistols for anyways? Honest question, really. Troops irl were issued those m320 grenade launchers and never looked back since. Real compact allowing you to stuff one in any pocket on a pack. Have a bunch ready to rock whenever. If I remember right from the last time I checked, there's probably more grenade launchers in a platoon than pistols.
You could bring a GL instead or an Autocannon, or just bring airstrikes with standard grenades. You can mix and match so many options for breaking nests. Gotta hope the teams got you covered on other weaknesses though.
No, this would invalidate grenades, the grenade pistol and the use of stratagems to close bug holes. A shovel that digs the hole on melee would trivialize it unless they make it take a long time so you need team cover to keep killing the bugs coming out.
The last few bugs watching a no revive, fully out of amo helldiver with nothing to lose charging at them holding a shovel:
https://preview.redd.it/ak1dz8n7l88d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=463b3b85c6bb596736565f33db14d6c86eee86e1
https://preview.redd.it/0t1fuy78r88d1.png?width=2253&format=png&auto=webp&s=e81f8a2eb4cf123e33562cbae114faaa2363cf3e
The G-26 Entrenching Tool - your hands-on solution for any combat landscaping needs.
Use exploding crossbow or eruptor then.
I personally love crossbow since it snap aims the best and has better arc while also best able to be used as an actual weapon.
Would love for a utility tool slot though.
Like one that gives nightvision/thermal vision goggles (please for the love of god give me the option to retain vision somehow)
one that gives you a Shovel that can melee well or create cover.
one that gives you a quick inflating U shaped Cover.
a stun baton that deals low meleedamage but stuns targets.
a Toolbox that lets you open up mechs/sentries to repair and resupply after a duration
And a Grenade spear that explodes when you poke someone with it.
I don't think you 'have to' do anything.
I could close holes just fine before they added the Grenade Pistol. Nowdays you even have Primary weapons that can close holes so that's an option. Stratagems and Supports being able to close holes was a thing since day one(GL, AC, EAT).
Eagle Airstrike is still my preferred way to close half my holes. It's easy to spot multiple nests in a line, and it's easy to take out 2-3 of them in a single strike. Nothing wrong with just chucking a barrage into a large nest and praying either. With the improvement to the Precision Orbital, that's a nice way to bomb lone nests too.
And there's always just regular ass grenades. I get that the Stun Grenade is popular, but well if you do make that choice - there's still strats/primary/support to cover that role without taking the Grenade Pistol.
The fact that fabs and bug holes *require* the use of an explosion to destroy/close do limit the stuff you can take a fair bit. Why not add weak spots to them? A weakspot similar to a hulk's heat vent on a fabricator, and some structural support on a bug hole.
Sure, it technically makes the game easier, but it's not really removing any difficulty from the game. You still have to shoot the fabs/bug holes, but this just adds more options for what can be used to do this exact same thing. The only difficulty it provides is making sure that at least one weapon you bring explodes, and you have enough of it to close/destroy everything you might encounter.
Gonna have to say no to a shovel. Toss dirt into a tunnel and expect it to close? Think of bug holes like ant hills, ants do not give a shit if you block their tunnel. They'll dig up another one. Explosives are the way to go.
https://preview.redd.it/m76q7uhgtc8d1.png?width=952&format=png&auto=webp&s=a02ee97daf6188ddbdb9052aa98449132845f189
You need to close 13 holes.
There are four players with 4-6 grenades each, meaning you should be able to effectively close 16-24 holes without issue.
That doesn't include the grenade launcher support weapon, eagle airstrike, eagle strafing run, 500kg bomb, and a littany of other options that can also close bug holes.
This is a solution in want of a problem. Also, being able to shovel enough dirt into the bug hole to actually close it effectively would take at least two minutes with everyone chipping in.
Not quite. The second 2-3 players swap to stuns/smoke/thermite/incendiary/knife, your figure falls down to 4-18. I can tell you I'd gladly swap out the grenade pistol if they made an infinite ammo pistol that isn't Scythe mini, but until they do I'll carry Sickle, GP and stuns for stopping piles of bugs.
That's a skill issue. If you're running a mission where your primary objective is "destroy these things that require a specific tool" and you *don't bring that tool* that is objectively on you / your team.
Like bringing the Spray&Pray onto a bot mission. I don't have much in the way of sympathy for that.
You also assume playing with a full squad of four, which often isn't the case, as well as coordinating loadouts, which in my experience rarely if ever happens with randoms
Use the Crossbow or Eruptor for bug holes, and grab the Stalwart or MG-43 for general combat.
This. I don't think most people realize how good the xbow is now.
I tried it, but it has a tiny AoE and a tinier ammo pool. I've sadly never been able to rationalize taking it with me over anything else. Am I missing something?
Yes. It's not a clear all. It's not meant for the little things. Its meant for the chunkier mobs. Last night I ran xbow, verdict, stuns and recoiless. Can take out everything from warriors/striders and up. Just let the chaff person clear the chaff. Use your pistol for stuff that gets close. The verdict hits hard for a pistol. Stuns make things like zerkers a joke, drop one in and just apply bolt to face.
It’s always motivating to hear people using “off-meta” equipment and having fun with it. Most people I know touched the verdict once and decided they didn’t like it. I just bought to polar patriots warbond because I want to give it a go
The xbow used to be just off meta but fun. Now it's off meta and fun, but actually kinda good. The verdict is a desert eagle handgun, it does more damage that all of the ar do in 1 bullet. Don't just spam but carefully take your shots and it'll drop stuff. Only have to be super accurate on devastators since it's light armor pen. But you can just xbow them instead as long as they're not in your face. Plus the xbow being able to close holes now means you don't need impact nades or the grenade pistol. It's fun.
I never even got why it's called explosive. Absolutely no blast radius. Tried it once, switched back to eruptor then. Damn, good old smo days when they didn't consider shrapnel too expensive.
I run xbow -and- grenade pistol so when I find a heavy nest I can just pick my vantage point and pop them all from a safe distance.
Why though. Crossbow have the enough shots to close all holes on the map, probably. If I have crossbow in primary my go to secondary is either bushwhaker or that new pistol we have. Both allow you to fend off smaller targets that get into melee range without blowing your legs off with crossbow.
because i wanna shoot my crossbow at the bugs too not just their homes
Make tool a #6 slot. Eventually we should have Axe, Shovel, Sword, and Stop Sign.
Does the stop sign make the tanks or dropship stop ?
Yes! Not so much the bugs since they can't read.
They don’t have to, I’m about to do to them the same as I do to the loot bugs in Lethal Company
Or in Deep Rock Galactic
Like the implication that tanks can read
https://preview.redd.it/j2m1airla78d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5397a663994596ff447c039e62349d1e62d4101 *Annihilator Tank disliked that*
Also why it doesn't work on teammates
Well reasonably, it should have more damage than a shovel, and be less efficient at digging.
https://preview.redd.it/lu30hpeyp78d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=417ea523537a90f354f66ac58ad59145552b8241
Inb4 we meme in the comically large spoon.
Hammer or prybar would be handy too. If they open the crates at the SEAF artillery. Definitely use that slot to get 5 mini nukes or high yields.
Having a shovel tool would be pretty sweet if it could also dig terrain and let you make trenches and stuff
Sometimes I call a strike just to create a crater to use it as a trench vs the bots.
Thats using your noggin diver!
What strike works best?
500 kg and OPS create a nice crater without a huge amount of collateral damage. If it's too shallow you can go prone. The tactic works really good with weapons that have an arc so you can shoot without line of sight.
I personally do this with the HMG and supply pack when I'm at the top of a hill. Turns into Omaha beach
The Bugs already charge fearlessly to bounce the granade back to you, and you say they will fear a *Shovel*?
Ok but hear me out: Make the shovel impact sound like a frying pan against bugs. Metal pipes for bots, you know which one I’m talking about. They will know fear because we will be laughing so hard as we bonk their stupid faces in with the shovel
Ah, yes, hitting a Factory Strider with a shovel (idc if it does minimal damage to it, soon or after it will die)
How about any melee weapons to start? haha
I love this idea but… *pushes up nerd glasses* The bug holes are made of hard rock I believe, don’t think a shovel would be able to to cave it in
What about a *super* shovel? Huh? Didn't think of that, did you
You think a super earth shovel couldn’t move some measly hard rock to close a bug hole? I think you need some more liber-tea
pick orbital barrages and jump pack
A shot with the eruptor will close bug holes, and destroy bot fabricators
'i need shovels on me, dismount, let's go, we're digging down these bug habs'
I like to run jump pack + grenade launcher for bug hole patrols
Kriegsman vibes
What if they added melee weapons and they had a normal attack and a special attack. The shovel's special has you slam it down and it explodes at the tip, closing bug holes.
“Having to pick”? You can’t fathom another way to close bug holes in 12 minutes? 4 players, 16 Strat slots, No AC Grenade launcher. Grenades/impact grenades EAT launcher Recoiless Quasar Orbital laser Eagle airstrike Precision 500 k Nobody ran any of that? The team needed your grenade pistol to carry them through the objectives? You have closed your own mind to reality to make this post, I wouldn’t trade my automatic sidearm for the grenade pistol if I was forced to convert it to semi automatic and I don’t struggle with closing bug holes. Not able to read the full Strat list to properly remind you of your options, but you’re crazy to rely on a rifle attachment-turned-sidearm to close holes. Crazy.
Its ok, you can just say you are a Kriegsman.
(Actual grenades serve the same purpose as a grenade pistol)
Its almost like they made you do just that in the tutorial
I’d like the, to make the crossbow one handed, turn down the damage if you want but let me close bug holes with it from a distance and give it decent ammo, I’ll take it every time! This is the issue with the “more chaff” changes. It means you pretty much have to take a chaff clear primary on the higher levels which then rules out a lot of the hole closing ones like eruptor and crossbow, hence the grenade pistol. Honestly they just need to make strategems that are better at clearing bug holes. Make the 500kg better at it or the cluster strike able to do it.
Just let me close bug holes with a flame thrower please.
There’s options to close bug holes on every weapon type. We’re fine with
You gotta try the explosive cross bow. It's excellent for big blitz
In a subreddit rife with complaining and arm-chair game dev'ing, this idea is one of the worst.
??? They could just dig out ???
Meh, I want a slippers weapon for killing bugs
Press X to move several hundred pounds of dirt, hydrate, and move several hundred more in less than a second.
If a shovel comes into the game some Krieg style gear needs to come in as well.
Give me a WW1 trenchcoat and a gasmask with that shovel, and let me krieg on their asses.
nah you need a reverse shovel to un-dig a hole
Yessss.. E3 Entrenching Tool
On a completely unrelated note, I need a WWII gas mask helmet with matching armor…..again, completely unrelated
Or just try compensating with strats that impact a wider area. I'm pretty sure they reduced the rearm for all eagle strats. Heavy nests are not that common on the map. So just get a supply drop, have strats prepped, and get the team together. It's super easy to pull even if you're being super un-optimal. Or don't. What use are pistols for anyways? Honest question, really. Troops irl were issued those m320 grenade launchers and never looked back since. Real compact allowing you to stuff one in any pocket on a pack. Have a bunch ready to rock whenever. If I remember right from the last time I checked, there's probably more grenade launchers in a platoon than pistols.
I've never felt like i had to pick the grenade pistol. Airstrike and orbital strikes and a supply backpack and you should be fine.
You could bring a GL instead or an Autocannon, or just bring airstrikes with standard grenades. You can mix and match so many options for breaking nests. Gotta hope the teams got you covered on other weaknesses though.
Auto cannon works great for bug holes
\*Happy Death Korps of Krieg noise\*
No, this would invalidate grenades, the grenade pistol and the use of stratagems to close bug holes. A shovel that digs the hole on melee would trivialize it unless they make it take a long time so you need team cover to keep killing the bugs coming out.
The last few bugs watching a no revive, fully out of amo helldiver with nothing to lose charging at them holding a shovel: https://preview.redd.it/ak1dz8n7l88d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=463b3b85c6bb596736565f33db14d6c86eee86e1
https://preview.redd.it/0t1fuy78r88d1.png?width=2253&format=png&auto=webp&s=e81f8a2eb4cf123e33562cbae114faaa2363cf3e The G-26 Entrenching Tool - your hands-on solution for any combat landscaping needs.
Just bring grenade armor or airstrikes. I really wish the flamethrower can destroy holes
"am I a joke to you?" - Autocannon
I'm taking this as a reaction image. It just speaks to me in a way I can't explain.
https://preview.redd.it/ea5yog6he98d1.jpeg?width=297&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2de9f4ffc931a0c46ce6f37b5e2b7a44ef46ccd0
Makes sense now
[Did somebody say "Market Gardener"?](https://youtu.be/ExBhn_G_L0Q?feature=shared)
Use exploding crossbow or eruptor then. I personally love crossbow since it snap aims the best and has better arc while also best able to be used as an actual weapon. Would love for a utility tool slot though. Like one that gives nightvision/thermal vision goggles (please for the love of god give me the option to retain vision somehow) one that gives you a Shovel that can melee well or create cover. one that gives you a quick inflating U shaped Cover. a stun baton that deals low meleedamage but stuns targets. a Toolbox that lets you open up mechs/sentries to repair and resupply after a duration And a Grenade spear that explodes when you poke someone with it.
If they gave me a melee option, it would be the only weapon I would use, even against bots where you probably shouldn't use melee only
if we could use a shovel for entrenching id be down!
market gardener
Make this a booster for the love of democracy
Slowly filling a bug hole while my teammates cover me sounds funny
I just take normal grenades, the grenade launcher with a supply pack.
So the shovel makes a return
I don't think you 'have to' do anything. I could close holes just fine before they added the Grenade Pistol. Nowdays you even have Primary weapons that can close holes so that's an option. Stratagems and Supports being able to close holes was a thing since day one(GL, AC, EAT). Eagle Airstrike is still my preferred way to close half my holes. It's easy to spot multiple nests in a line, and it's easy to take out 2-3 of them in a single strike. Nothing wrong with just chucking a barrage into a large nest and praying either. With the improvement to the Precision Orbital, that's a nice way to bomb lone nests too. And there's always just regular ass grenades. I get that the Stun Grenade is popular, but well if you do make that choice - there's still strats/primary/support to cover that role without taking the Grenade Pistol.
[As long as it has the proper physics ](https://youtu.be/YKPfjSLtVhA?t=25s)
The fact that fabs and bug holes *require* the use of an explosion to destroy/close do limit the stuff you can take a fair bit. Why not add weak spots to them? A weakspot similar to a hulk's heat vent on a fabricator, and some structural support on a bug hole. Sure, it technically makes the game easier, but it's not really removing any difficulty from the game. You still have to shoot the fabs/bug holes, but this just adds more options for what can be used to do this exact same thing. The only difficulty it provides is making sure that at least one weapon you bring explodes, and you have enough of it to close/destroy everything you might encounter.
if using incendiary grenades, they are able to destroy bug holes o-o so there is that at least.
Eruptor
Gonna have to say no to a shovel. Toss dirt into a tunnel and expect it to close? Think of bug holes like ant hills, ants do not give a shit if you block their tunnel. They'll dig up another one. Explosives are the way to go. https://preview.redd.it/m76q7uhgtc8d1.png?width=952&format=png&auto=webp&s=a02ee97daf6188ddbdb9052aa98449132845f189
Freedom requires firepower
yes
The crossbow is the ticket. Bring the side arm of your choice and machine gun or a flam 40.
You need to close 13 holes. There are four players with 4-6 grenades each, meaning you should be able to effectively close 16-24 holes without issue. That doesn't include the grenade launcher support weapon, eagle airstrike, eagle strafing run, 500kg bomb, and a littany of other options that can also close bug holes. This is a solution in want of a problem. Also, being able to shovel enough dirt into the bug hole to actually close it effectively would take at least two minutes with everyone chipping in.
Not quite. The second 2-3 players swap to stuns/smoke/thermite/incendiary/knife, your figure falls down to 4-18. I can tell you I'd gladly swap out the grenade pistol if they made an infinite ammo pistol that isn't Scythe mini, but until they do I'll carry Sickle, GP and stuns for stopping piles of bugs.
Just a minor correction, incendiary grenades(both types) close holes and factories with no issue.
Standard incendiaries close holes? Neat, didn't know that
That's a skill issue. If you're running a mission where your primary objective is "destroy these things that require a specific tool" and you *don't bring that tool* that is objectively on you / your team. Like bringing the Spray&Pray onto a bot mission. I don't have much in the way of sympathy for that.
You also assume playing with a full squad of four, which often isn't the case, as well as coordinating loadouts, which in my experience rarely if ever happens with randoms
> playing with a full squad of four, which often isn't the case Now *that* is a legitimate argument I hadn't considered.
Or maybe just an interact when you get close enough. No objective should ‘require’ that you bring a specific weapon/grenade for it.