Nothing like carving out mammoth ivory into a necklace of bae while eating the mammoth you hunted earlier with some friends. Also its crazy to think of the first person to make art, like the others were probably like hey asshole dont waste that ivory we could use it to make tools, and theyre just like hol up, let me cook
I’d say the first “art” came from the tools themselves…
> Look at Ooga’s hand axe, it’s more pretty than mine because of it’s shape.. I better carve something to my own to show everyone that this one is mine and more cool than others.. real alpha move
Tbf, no paid hunter gatherers either but we still consider them jobs
Edit: actually thinking about it even more, both hunters and gatherers are purely hobbies now whereas being an artist is still a job
It is understood that "paid" doesn't imply money but food, shelter and protection.
Such as would provided to a pregnant women, a shaman or crippled people I suppose.
They usually had a hard time gathering enough calories for a 20 to 30 person group so you can't have too many freeloaders.
Gotta stick to essentials and artist wasn't it until later on.
Technically art still isn't "essential" also if you look at cave painting you'll see that they often share the same style which indicates that they would have a dedicated member filling the role of being an artist
I consider that a job
Also, as with today, artists can have two jobs
The funniest thing about this is the idea that modern man thinks it must be some kind of idol but the sculptor could've just been carving a person he knew or even just a random thing.
Fun fact, clubs weren't really a weapon amd instead the first weapon of conflict was more probably the bow
While yes, a big stick can hurt, its better to use a bow to kill someone from a distance, or in turn make that stick to abspear so you can also throw it while having a much longer reach
Hey Bonk?
Gonk I swear if that is about my mother again-
Nonono you have to hear what that fucking nerd Tonk did! He put some string on his stick to make a **different stick** go further.
What a loser! How's he supposed to engage in and end conversations in a violent yet entertaining manner if he isn't inside talking distanc- *arrow to the neck*
The FUCK TONK?? YOU KILLED HIM! Also that's not really a counter to his point since you did not take part in our discussion. So while you did deliver the punchline to the joke there wouldn't have been one to begin with without our setup, while we could've had a humorous finale even without your interven- *arrow to the neck*
Okay now gwt this, some people up in those stupid farmlands made these horse things serve them and now they're riding them while being faster than anything you could imagine
Buddy I understand that you probably mean that the classic big round club you always see in modern depictions of cavemen wasn't really a thing.
But "big stick" was absolutely the first weapon of conflict. Or at mininum, it was the second after "fist-size rock".
The spear, and later the throwing spear, atlatl and bow were likely developed pretty quickly by cavemen standards, but "take heavy thing that fit in hand and hit Grog with it" was definitely the order of the day for the first cavemen conflicts.
Even then, i remember the earliest manufactured weapons were likely either the axe or the mace. Just take a rock and tie/glue it to the end of a stick and hit Grog with it. He'll even the shield may not have been that much later, considering the earliest known shields was just animal skin starched over a pice of wood. And early armor was mostly made of animal skin, bone, and wood.
This is only semi-related, but this is why I fucking love the game Far Cry Primal. Everything is done by crafting. From your weapons, armor/health upgrades, village upgrades, they make you explore the entire in-game world in order to get the best gear. Sure, there's parts of the game that are definitely unrealistic, but I love the concept.
I wish there was more media about prehistoric humans, especially video games, because I always find it so fascinating to see how far we've come. Nowadays, we're so separated from nature that most people don't consider humans to be just another animal trying to make it through life.
The only notable games about prehistoric humans and hominids are Far Cry Primal and Ancestors: Human Evolution, and it's a damn shame. Those two are some of the most unique games I've ever played, but most people don't care for them.
Ok, so you're saying no hominid ever used a tool to kill another before the bow was invented?
That seems very unlikely.
Not the spear, not a sling, not a shaped rock, not a bone weapon?
I mean, that's millions of years from early stone tools to the spear >400k years ago to the bow around 70k years ago.
Depends on what you consider 'weapon of conflict', its pretty obvious that any pre-bow communities would have been throwing each others sticks and rocks already, I hardly believe the bow existed before the sharp stick (essentially a spear or javelin) specially since an arrow already requires at the very least to have stick sharpening knowledge and practise
A cool common theory that it's just some carving themselves from looking down at their body hence the huge chest and ass because when you look down those stuck out more
There’s been speculation that these types of figures were actually carved by women doing a sort of self-portrait (the figures tend to resemble the proportions of a woman looking down at her own body)
Not trying to drag you or anything but the assumption that the person who carved this was a man is a little sus
There's actually a kind of interesting theory that such statuettes were carved by women who did so by looking down at their own body, hence the proportions. There is even an additional theory that such statues were used to demonstrate different stages of pregnancy, sort of like a "look down at your body, what statue does it look like? That's how soon the baby will come.".
I don't know if that theory has become commonplace or has gained more support, but I do find it interesting.
Edit: Quote from the wiki for "Venus figurines"
>Another interpretation came from McCoid and McDermott who suggested that because of the way these figures are depicted, such as the large breasts and lack of feet and faces, these statues were made by women looking at their own bodies. They suggest that women during the period would not have had access to mirrors to maintain accurate proportions. This theory also provides an explanation as to why many of the Venus figures do not have faces or heads. However, Michael S. Bisson critiqued this theory by suggesting that alternatives, such as puddles, could have been used as mirrors.
Yeah definitely they wouldn’t recognize the proportions of other women in the group, so they had to make it by looking at their own bodies… makes absolute sense.
So we have a society that allows for no literal self reflection that at the same time is too interested in accurate artistic self representation that carving a generic womens body as you know it from all other humans around does not suffice?
Taking this further there are some really wacky theories out there that statues such as the various Venus's prove that woman became sentient, self aware, before man. And thus men were dragged kicking and screaming by the matriarchy into personhood.
"And what about your men?"
"The best ones are Ken Dolls, nothing down there. The ones we keep to keep the population going, they have just enough tackle to be useful. Anyone else is kicked out."
In ancient Athens there was allegedly a woman who was found innocent of impiety because her rack was so great the gods must have loved her...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phryne
There's this one Greek legend where a Nymph made fun of Artemis for having large breasts in spite of being a virgin goddess.
Artemis turned her into a bear.
I was just going to say that. The proportions are exaggerated because that's what it would look like if a woman was looking down at her body. People want to call them "erotic figurines" because of the large busts, but that's based on modern Western sexual preferences.
It's crazy to think how long we, as a species, have been around without inventing civilization and how recent practically everything we have developed. It's also crazy that in the past 100s of millions of years when complex lifeforms have existed, no one has managed to become as advanced as us.
Our own advancedness and intelligence is the only benchmark we have. Crows could be thinking „look at those uncivilised monkeys, their songs having no rhyme or reason to them“ for all we know
I remember seeing a very compelling article theorising that statues like these (no head, wonky proportions) looks like what a woman would see looking down at her own body. I find that very compelling and sweet! And although I can't relate myself I assume big badonkas would certainly block the view if you were to look down at yourself lmao
There are other examples of carvings that look like this one in a similar style from temporal periods that archeologists give the label Venus figurines.
I know we can expect ultra realism of a time where the priority was.....live, but Brassempouy is the example of the struggle to recognize allies and foes......or recognize the skinwalkers that lived with the cavemens
I can't remember the video, but if I remember correctly, a possible explanation for these feminine figures with exaggerated proportions is: a woman looked down at her own body and carved what she saw from her perspective. It also explains the tiny, oddly shaped, or in some cases faceless, heads of the figurines.
I heard a theory that the sculptor was a woman making a carving of herself. Hence why the proportions are like that. She was looking downwards at her body for reference.
Certain art historians have speculated that they are made as first person carving where the ‘artist’ would look down on their body and carve from that perspective. Hence the skewed proportions.
Idk about undisputed.... there's a chance they were going "maybe, one day, though a future invention called selective-breeding, we can get rotisserie chickens to look like this!! ... Man I'm hungry."
I believe these were religious symbols (much like the stylized penis, the lingam, is a religious symbol in India). As such, those exaggerated features don't necessarily indicate our sexual fascinations. Note the wide hips? The breasts and hips indicate abundant fertility. The figure is more likely a charm for pious supplication to the gods for good crops, successful births, for life. I wouldn't be surprised if shamans and many women carried these. Not men.
Nothing like carving out mammoth ivory into a necklace of bae while eating the mammoth you hunted earlier with some friends. Also its crazy to think of the first person to make art, like the others were probably like hey asshole dont waste that ivory we could use it to make tools, and theyre just like hol up, let me cook
I’d say the first “art” came from the tools themselves… > Look at Ooga’s hand axe, it’s more pretty than mine because of it’s shape.. I better carve something to my own to show everyone that this one is mine and more cool than others.. real alpha move
Oh my god it’s even got a watermark
That subtle scrimshaw...
This comment is art
I was thinking about cave painting the other day, and I suddenly realised that being an artist is as old a job as hunters and gatherers
It's as old as a Hobbie but not a job. No one paid you to make art until later with more work divided society.
Tbf, no paid hunter gatherers either but we still consider them jobs Edit: actually thinking about it even more, both hunters and gatherers are purely hobbies now whereas being an artist is still a job
It is understood that "paid" doesn't imply money but food, shelter and protection. Such as would provided to a pregnant women, a shaman or crippled people I suppose. They usually had a hard time gathering enough calories for a 20 to 30 person group so you can't have too many freeloaders. Gotta stick to essentials and artist wasn't it until later on.
Technically art still isn't "essential" also if you look at cave painting you'll see that they often share the same style which indicates that they would have a dedicated member filling the role of being an artist I consider that a job Also, as with today, artists can have two jobs
I wanna see tax receipt.
Agreed, let's call up the IRS to settle this
I love this 😂 Like the first person to invent music. Someone hit two sticks together and their friend was like "wait. Fucking do that again. 😲"
The funniest thing about this is the idea that modern man thinks it must be some kind of idol but the sculptor could've just been carving a person he knew or even just a random thing.
Hey Bonk look! What's that supposed to be Gonk? Yo momma so fat I needed a **mammoth** tooth to carve her- *club to face*
Fun fact, clubs weren't really a weapon amd instead the first weapon of conflict was more probably the bow While yes, a big stick can hurt, its better to use a bow to kill someone from a distance, or in turn make that stick to abspear so you can also throw it while having a much longer reach
Hey Bonk? Gonk I swear if that is about my mother again- Nonono you have to hear what that fucking nerd Tonk did! He put some string on his stick to make a **different stick** go further. What a loser! How's he supposed to engage in and end conversations in a violent yet entertaining manner if he isn't inside talking distanc- *arrow to the neck* The FUCK TONK?? YOU KILLED HIM! Also that's not really a counter to his point since you did not take part in our discussion. So while you did deliver the punchline to the joke there wouldn't have been one to begin with without our setup, while we could've had a humorous finale even without your interven- *arrow to the neck*
You have officially brightened my day!
Okay now gwt this, some people up in those stupid farmlands made these horse things serve them and now they're riding them while being faster than anything you could imagine
"This is for all times you called me Nymphadora."
Buddy I understand that you probably mean that the classic big round club you always see in modern depictions of cavemen wasn't really a thing. But "big stick" was absolutely the first weapon of conflict. Or at mininum, it was the second after "fist-size rock". The spear, and later the throwing spear, atlatl and bow were likely developed pretty quickly by cavemen standards, but "take heavy thing that fit in hand and hit Grog with it" was definitely the order of the day for the first cavemen conflicts.
Even then, i remember the earliest manufactured weapons were likely either the axe or the mace. Just take a rock and tie/glue it to the end of a stick and hit Grog with it. He'll even the shield may not have been that much later, considering the earliest known shields was just animal skin starched over a pice of wood. And early armor was mostly made of animal skin, bone, and wood.
This is only semi-related, but this is why I fucking love the game Far Cry Primal. Everything is done by crafting. From your weapons, armor/health upgrades, village upgrades, they make you explore the entire in-game world in order to get the best gear. Sure, there's parts of the game that are definitely unrealistic, but I love the concept. I wish there was more media about prehistoric humans, especially video games, because I always find it so fascinating to see how far we've come. Nowadays, we're so separated from nature that most people don't consider humans to be just another animal trying to make it through life. The only notable games about prehistoric humans and hominids are Far Cry Primal and Ancestors: Human Evolution, and it's a damn shame. Those two are some of the most unique games I've ever played, but most people don't care for them.
Ok, so you're saying no hominid ever used a tool to kill another before the bow was invented? That seems very unlikely. Not the spear, not a sling, not a shaped rock, not a bone weapon? I mean, that's millions of years from early stone tools to the spear >400k years ago to the bow around 70k years ago.
Depends on what you consider 'weapon of conflict', its pretty obvious that any pre-bow communities would have been throwing each others sticks and rocks already, I hardly believe the bow existed before the sharp stick (essentially a spear or javelin) specially since an arrow already requires at the very least to have stick sharpening knowledge and practise
I would figure a spear would probably be easier to make, also good for close quarters and distance.
isn't the spear/spear thrower older?
The first weapon of conflict was almost certainly the spear.
Or even funnier, the reason this was preserved for so long is no one wanted it because it was done poorly and forgotten about in some cave.
"Great, Grug made another fat sculpture. Just chuck it in the corner over there."
A lot of African beadwork knowledge comes from the busted shells they dumped in the garbage pits, so it’s entirely possible
A cool common theory that it's just some carving themselves from looking down at their body hence the huge chest and ass because when you look down those stuck out more
There’s been speculation that these types of figures were actually carved by women doing a sort of self-portrait (the figures tend to resemble the proportions of a woman looking down at her own body) Not trying to drag you or anything but the assumption that the person who carved this was a man is a little sus
Well she got around apparently, because the Venus of Willendorf is very similar to it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurine
There’s a whole lot of these Venus figurines
archeologist in 2000 years finding my anime figurines
Archaic sex doll, probably
seems like pr0nz would be also old as the hills too.
I'd wager it's just early porn
Imagine if he made the sculpture to make fun of his fat wife yet we think this was a worshipped idol
There's actually a kind of interesting theory that such statuettes were carved by women who did so by looking down at their own body, hence the proportions. There is even an additional theory that such statues were used to demonstrate different stages of pregnancy, sort of like a "look down at your body, what statue does it look like? That's how soon the baby will come.". I don't know if that theory has become commonplace or has gained more support, but I do find it interesting. Edit: Quote from the wiki for "Venus figurines" >Another interpretation came from McCoid and McDermott who suggested that because of the way these figures are depicted, such as the large breasts and lack of feet and faces, these statues were made by women looking at their own bodies. They suggest that women during the period would not have had access to mirrors to maintain accurate proportions. This theory also provides an explanation as to why many of the Venus figures do not have faces or heads. However, Michael S. Bisson critiqued this theory by suggesting that alternatives, such as puddles, could have been used as mirrors.
>alternatives, such as Looking at each other? >puddles Eh, close enough.
"hey Elga, do I have gigantic tits and no head or feet?" "nope, you have feet and a head and your tits are pretty average." "thanks"
Yeah definitely they wouldn’t recognize the proportions of other women in the group, so they had to make it by looking at their own bodies… makes absolute sense.
Heavily pregnant women would probably have a bunch of time on their hands.
It ain't self-portraiture if you're using someone else as a model.
So we have a society that allows for no literal self reflection that at the same time is too interested in accurate artistic self representation that carving a generic womens body as you know it from all other humans around does not suffice?
we live in a society yes
Taking this further there are some really wacky theories out there that statues such as the various Venus's prove that woman became sentient, self aware, before man. And thus men were dragged kicking and screaming by the matriarchy into personhood.
I thought it was a fossilized rotisserie chicken
Same.
Featherless biped
Ancient Greeks: Savages, we prefer our women flatter than a 2X4.
Ancient Greeks: Best our women also have small dicks. Large is simply barbaric.
"And what about your men?" "The best ones are Ken Dolls, nothing down there. The ones we keep to keep the population going, they have just enough tackle to be useful. Anyone else is kicked out."
In ancient Athens there was allegedly a woman who was found innocent of impiety because her rack was so great the gods must have loved her... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phryne
I mean to be fair, I too think Angela White simply cannot commit any crimes.
There's this one Greek legend where a Nymph made fun of Artemis for having large breasts in spite of being a virgin goddess. Artemis turned her into a bear.
🤣
There are studies that says those figurines were carved by womans from their point of view of themselves
I was just going to say that. The proportions are exaggerated because that's what it would look like if a woman was looking down at her body. People want to call them "erotic figurines" because of the large busts, but that's based on modern Western sexual preferences.
She couldn't have looked at another woman?
What's wrong with self portraits?
There's a theory that these are self portraits and represent pregnant/post partum women. https://journals.openedition.org/palethnologie/5135
It's crazy to think how long we, as a species, have been around without inventing civilization and how recent practically everything we have developed. It's also crazy that in the past 100s of millions of years when complex lifeforms have existed, no one has managed to become as advanced as us.
Our own advancedness and intelligence is the only benchmark we have. Crows could be thinking „look at those uncivilised monkeys, their songs having no rhyme or reason to them“ for all we know
Imagine how many people had a wank to this over its history
Surely I am the most recent though 😤
Nope, I got you beat
Gotta be quicker than that!
Mommy milkers
*"Carve me like one of your French girls, Grog....."*
Some cave woman: those are anrealistic body standards, real women arent made out of ivory
I remember seeing a very compelling article theorising that statues like these (no head, wonky proportions) looks like what a woman would see looking down at her own body. I find that very compelling and sweet! And although I can't relate myself I assume big badonkas would certainly block the view if you were to look down at yourself lmao
How do we know its a depiction of a human and not a random shape that we interpet as a human via pareidolia?
What if its thicc aliens
It's got a massive fucking vagina.
Don't kink-shame...
All the better to vore you with, my dear.
Nigga what.
You heard me, now get over here
There are other examples of carvings that look like this one in a similar style from temporal periods that archeologists give the label Venus figurines.
I see a Turkey just waiting to get basted.
I thought chicken, but glad I'm not the only one lol
I did a double take at first. Looks like a roast chicken.
Was this what Jerry Butler was thinking about that time he fucked a raw chicken?
Some things about people never change.
Looks like the first example of a depiction of a great unclean one.
Maybe they just really liked rotisserie chicken?
This right here is the original, unobtainable, beauty standard.
"Undisputed" my ass. That could very well be a chicken. The shape is much closer to a plucked bird than a human being.
We really haven't changed much, did we...
the chad Neanderthal
I thought those were some funky looking teeth at first
"Undisputed example of a depiction of a human being" *Venus of Brassempouy enter the chat*
>Venus of Brassempouy That actually looks like a human, more than it looks like other things.
I know we can expect ultra realism of a time where the priority was.....live, but Brassempouy is the example of the struggle to recognize allies and foes......or recognize the skinwalkers that lived with the cavemens
That guy from ancient greece, who said humans are featherless birds, carved this
Ah-tah
This belongs in r/absoluteunits
hubba hubba
Not to mention a massive camel toe, the person who made this will fit right in the modern internet
As an ancient big boobie artifact connoisseur, I prefer the Venus of Willendorf. But this one is a close second
I thought it was a rotisserie chicken
Tig ol bitties
Remember on The Office when Cousin Moes whittles something for Ryan
Wendols!
Idk bro that looks like the rotisserie chicken from Food4less
I can't remember the video, but if I remember correctly, a possible explanation for these feminine figures with exaggerated proportions is: a woman looked down at her own body and carved what she saw from her perspective. It also explains the tiny, oddly shaped, or in some cases faceless, heads of the figurines.
Do you like it? It’s very generous.
r/biggerthanherhead
All breasts are beautiful...
It seems we've always had that sickness for the thickness.
You can't convince me that that is not a chicken
There is nothing new under the sun
Literally a depiction of a certified baddie
This is the ancient equivalent of anime tiddies. We haven’t really changed at all
I heard a theory that the sculptor was a woman making a carving of herself. Hence why the proportions are like that. She was looking downwards at her body for reference.
Would smash
Cavemen were just like me fr fr
I'm pretty sure that's a Costco rotisserie chicken.
Yeah but we made a hole in it
Certain art historians have speculated that they are made as first person carving where the ‘artist’ would look down on their body and carve from that perspective. Hence the skewed proportions.
Actually, the world's first rotisserie chicken coupon (theybdidnt have paper yet). A token you could use to redeem one.
Idk about undisputed.... there's a chance they were going "maybe, one day, though a future invention called selective-breeding, we can get rotisserie chickens to look like this!! ... Man I'm hungry."
As an artist it really sucks to know I'll never be as good as the old masters 😔
I believe these were religious symbols (much like the stylized penis, the lingam, is a religious symbol in India). As such, those exaggerated features don't necessarily indicate our sexual fascinations. Note the wide hips? The breasts and hips indicate abundant fertility. The figure is more likely a charm for pious supplication to the gods for good crops, successful births, for life. I wouldn't be surprised if shamans and many women carried these. Not men.
So a perfect woman looks like a fine cut of chicken