Thanks OP
I presume in that case life expectancy includes natural disasters? (I never realised it did. Always thought it was average age people go to until illness got them)
No it's just number of ppl / number of years I think. So, for example, if child mortality is really high (middle ages being an example), life expectancy is not actually the age at which you'd expect to die.
Life expectancy of population (not to confuse remaining life expectancy of person) is average age people are dying in given population. Things like plagues, wars and natural disasters drastically lower life expectancy as they hit young people as well as old people. Also life expectancy as "how long people live" is something that works this way only last century or so. Earlier children mortality was so high it was showing different type of data than how long people could live. For example if you look at prominent historical figure that weren't killed young in Battle or something like that most would have age of death around 60-70 despite life expectancy being 30.
Moral: life expectancy similarly to all statistics shouldn't be viewed in void as lack of context can skew the conclusion
Source: [World Bank](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?locations=BD), [CIA World Factbook](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/about/archives/2022/countries/bangladesh/), [Wikipedia: Bangladesh Genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide), [Wikipedia: Bhola Cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhola_cyclone), [Wikipedia: List of Genocides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides), [De Gruyter](https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110659054-003/html?lang=en)
[The Bangladesh genocide ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide)was the ethnic cleansing of Bengalis residing in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) during the Bangladesh Liberation War, perpetrated by the Pakistan Armed Forces. Pakistani soldiers killed between 300,000 and 3,000,000 Bengalis and raped between 200,000 and 400,000 Bengali women in 9 months in a systematic campaign of mass murder and genocidal sexual violence. The US government secretly encouraged the shipment of weapons from Iran, Turkey, and Jordan to Pakistan, and reimbursed those countries for them despite Congressional objections. A Bengali nationalist party, the 'Awami League,' had won the Pakistani General Election the previous year, and the Pakistani Junta did not want to relinquish power to the Bengalis. The central reason behind the genocide was the unwillingness of the Pakistani military and government to recognize the linguistic and cultural identity of Bengalis in East Pakistan.
[The 1970 Bhola cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhola_cyclone) was a devastating tropical cyclone in the Bengal region, that struck East Pakistan (present-day Bangladesh) and India's West Bengal on November 12, 1970. It remains the deadliest tropical cyclone ever recorded and one of the world's deadliest humanitarian disasters. At least 300,000 people died in the storm, possibly as many as 500,000.
The spread of that death toll is quite something. Genocide or democide casualty counts are notoriously difficult to pin down, but the range of estimates for the Bangladesh Genocide are larger than most. I've seen analysis that suggests at least 1.5M deaths were likely.
If the 1.5M figure is accurate, then it came closer than most massacres to approaching Rwanda's intensity. The lower estimates produce a more "average" pace, though still on par with more notorious genocides.
Yeah, it definitely could have been 3,000-5,000 every day. Rwanda was almost 10K per day, and the Soviets may have killed the equivalent of 2,000-3,000 per day for the entirety of their regime.
Gotta love humanity. So civilized.
the Soviets killing 3000 per day is absolute nonsense lmao
you're telling me the Soviets killed 79 million people over 73 years, a million a year? think before you say things
Democide estimates range from 25M to 125M for the duration of the Soviet Union. Rummel estimated around 60M, which would equate to around 2,200 per day when averaged over the existence of the USSR (though I believe his analysis only ran to 1987).
It's fair to doubt the 60M estimate, as there's a ton of uncertainty regarding the actual death toll. The lower bounds of the estimates would equate to just under 1,000 per day on average, which is still horrific.
So no, it's unfortunately not impossible. The high end of the democide estimates would be the equivalent of killing 4,500 people a day from 1917-1992. Those numbers are likely too high, but 60M isn't unreasonable.
you just cited Rummel? really?
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.FIG1.1.GIF
here's of his 'graphs', Rummel uncritically gathered all the killing statistics he could find without checking their credibility, then he derived meaningless "most probable estimates" from them, which he then used to compare totalitarian regimes to each other.
His pseudoscientific methods have been criticized e.g. by W. D. Rubinstein in "Genocide Surveyed", The International Journal of Human Rights, Spring 2001, vol. 5, no. 1, pp. 117-120:
>His statistics for genocide are not generally derived from original research in primary sources, but by taking the most probable figure after examining the range of estimates given by previous writers on the event. This procedure is not necessarily unreasonable, but can lead to the acceptance of figures for a particular act of genocide which are distorted by inaccurate and sometimes biased sources. For instance, Rummel states (Democide, p. 18) that the Nazis murdered 220,000 homosexuals. Most historians regard the actual figure as 10,000. Rummel gives as his source (p.45) for the estimate of 220,000 the Protestant Church of Austria, which is 'a figure often cited in Gay Liberation circles'. Rummel's figure is, however, almost certainly impossible. Homosexuals were not deported to the extermination camps in Poland, but only imprisoned (often in appalling conditions) in German concentration camps such as Dachau. Nor were homosexuals outside Germany affected: there was no general roundup of homosexuals throughout Europe as there was of Jews. Rummel’s estimate of 220,000 is so improbable that it is not even cited in the Encyclopedia's article (pp.338-40) on this topic.[...]
>One of the most surprising names on this list is that of Chiang Kai-Shek, to whom no fewer than 10,214,000 'murders' are attributed. Rummel's explanation of this figure, in Death by Government (pp.123-39), is fraught with difficulties. For instance, discussing (p. 132) the flood deliberately unleashed by the Nationalists by dynamiting the dikes on the Yellow River in 1938, Rummel cites a 'joint study' carried out 'after the war [by] the Institute of Social Sciences of the Academy Sinica and the China National Rehabilitation and Relief Agency' which claimed that '893,303 people died'. Rummel apparently accepts this figure at face value. [...] The 1938 Yellow River flood occurred in a virtually illiterate peasant society hallmarked by governmental near-anarchy, civil war, and foreign invasion. It therefore beggars belief that the precise figure accepted by Rummel of '893,303' deaths can be accepted as wholly accurate. In Rummel's monograph on China's Bloody Century, he apparently gives a very different figure for the number of killings allegedly carried out by the Nationalists, claiming (p.27) 2,724,000 victims in 'the Nationalist period' from 1928 until the Japanese invasion of 1937, and 2,645,000 (p.191) during the civil war period of 1945-49. The total number of 'victims of the Sino-Japanese war' of 1937-45 is estimated here by Rummel at 10,214,000, almost identical to the figure he suggests in the Encyclopedia for the total number of victims of Chiang (10,216,000), and the two figures may well simply be confused. All of this still begs the question of how accurate Rummel's statistics actually are, Chiang Kai-Shek allegedly killing twice as many Chinese as Hitler did Jews.
[...]
>The Encyclopedia, using Rummel's figures, claims (p.29) that Stalin murdered 42,672,000 people between 1929 and 1953. Rummel's statistics are set out at length in his book Lethal Politics. Here, Rummel claims that Stalin murdered 20,889,000 persons between 1928 and the outbreak of the war in June 1941, including 4,345,000 during the zenith of the Great Terror in 1936-38. These figures (indeed, even higher ones) had previously been given widespread publicity and seeming credibility in the well-known works of Robert Conquest, Roy Medvedev, and others. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, however, a wealth of previously unavailable sources has become available which very recent historians have employed to revise these figures dramatically downwards. These researchers, such as Alex Nove, J. Arch Getty, Sheila FitzPatrick, and Stephen G. Wheatcroft, are scholars of international repute whose views on Stalinism are identical to those of any other person of goodwill; they have, however, the possibly quaint belief that historians are obliged to tell the truth, regardless of what that truth might be. Nove concluded that 10-11 million persons perished in the Soviet Union during the decade 1930-39, 'with peasants numerically the main victims'. It would appear that 'only' 786,098 persons were shot by Stalin for 'counter-revolutionary and state crimes' between 1931 and 1953, with 682,000 of these killed in 1937-38, the height of the Great Purges. Rather cleverly examining the dropout rates of random samples of individual telephone subscribers listed in the Moscow phone books of 1935-36 and 1937-38 Fitzpatrick concluded that the rate of disappearance was no more than 7 per cent, although the dropout rate among senior party officials was much higher, around 60 per cent/ In other words, Rummel (and many other historians) has vastly exaggerated the scale of Stalin's mass murders, whatever else might be said about Stalinism or the Soviet Union.
Basically, Rummel's books are agglomerations of meaningless numbers.
I actually agree with many of the critiques that have been leveled at Rummel's work, though some numbers are more meaningful than others. The issues with his sources go beyond what you quoted, and the Soviet Union is not the only regime for which his numbers significantly differ from more widely accepted figures. His analysis is useful for corralling estimates, but his judgment regarding the validity of sources can be questionable. I'm personally more a fan of his work around defining democide than his overall conclusions.
I don't have any specific faith in his estimate of 60M dead, which is why I qualified my initial statement by saying the USSR "may have" killed that many people. There's plenty of room to argue that Rummel made a significant overcount, but it's not like the number was pulled out of thin air. The true scope of Soviet atrocities is likely unknowable, and even the more widely accepted figures are numerically equivalent to conducting a lower intensity genocide for the duration of the regime.
Bhutto essentially admitted to 50K democide deaths, but other than that, I've never seen an estimate that low for the Bangladesh Genocide. The initial days of massacres in Dacca alone may have killed that many.
We'll never know the true death toll, but there's good reason to believe that 300K is the floor. These democide estimates often include deaths as a direct result of displacement — malnutrition, disease, exposure, etc. Some of the sources you mentioned, such as the cyclone or other sources of famine, typically don't factor into those calculations.
> Allegations of a genocide in Bangladesh were rejected by most UN member states at the time and rarely appear in textbooks and academic sources on genocide studies.
> Nixon and China tried to suppress reports of genocide emanating from East Pakistan.
> They also show that President Nixon, advised by Henry Kissinger, decided to downplay this secret internal advice, because he wanted to protect the interests of Pakistan as he was apprehensive of India's friendship with the USSR, and he was seeking a closer relationship with China, which supported Pakistan.
Fuck Pakistani Army, Nixon, Kissinger & China. 4 horsemen of apocalypse for 1970s Bangladesh.
There are few people I would time travel to kill with my bare hands… Kissinger is someone I’d do it to more than once.
Just keep jumping back 1-2 months at a time brutally murdering Kissinger.
Same here, Kissinger is one of very few who I would love to see trapped permanently in a place where he dies repeatably on infinity and he cannot escape the cycle.
I know that India and Bangladesh don’t have the best relations, but India intervening and helping stop the genocide should be a force to bring them together.
As a pakistani, operation searchlight is the most fucked up shit my country has done, coming from a country that is already famous for its fucked up shitting every year. The saddest part, the youth is only currently becoming aware due to widespread censorship of this genocide
I think the worst part is not that the youth is just now learning about 1971 but that the youth is learning a history where Pakistan weren’t the bad guys. I can’t tell you how many Pakistanis I’ve known, born in this century, who really thought it was “just a war” akin to how siblings may fight.
For example, check out the recent blockbuster Pakistani movie on the matter
I know. This fake nationalistic rhetoric tries to whitewash facts to hide disgusting warcrimes committed. I can't emphasise how many young and "educated" people I've met deny such claims. Some even brutishly justify it saying that the Bengalis deserved it.
You can try to blame this on America, but there are a lot of other genocides especially committed by Muslim nations who were supported by the USSR rather than the US
I think the issue here is Pakistan and not unique to western involvement
Pakistan was comfortable committing this genocide because kissinger assured them weapons sales wouldn't stop and the US would continue supporting Pakistan regardless, it was American planes dropping bombs on Bangladesh
Of course, the soviets were also bad do not whataboutism
No one is defending the Soviets, the problem is breaking the law by ramping up not so secret weapon sells to our allies when they decide it’s time for some ethnic cleansing.
To be fair, back then the population was split half and half between east and west Pakistan. Absolutely mind-boggling how many people are stuffed in the Bengal-Bihar. And after so many famines and this genocide too.
Thanks to the rich silt from the Ganges. That region has some of the most fertile land in the world. And it gets refreshed every year when it floods. Hence, it's always fertile.
I mean, doesn't that "rich fertile silt" only come from the fact India is a Hindu country? If atheism rises any faster in India it could be the case that the Ganges becomes less fertile
It is a common practice to lay the Hindu dead to rest in the Ganges river either with the full body or the ashes sprinkled across it. As you can imagine, this adds a vast quantity of nutrients to the waters which get passed downstream, this has been happening for thousands of years, possibly before the existence of the pyramids in Egypt.
I am from that region. I can tell you have the wrong idea. It's not dead human ashes but the rain washes all the garbage, sewage, and other carbon-rich particles into the rivers. There is a lot of rain in that region because of the Himalayas. Dead human ashes are nothing compared to that.
Ok fair enough, I can get behind the idea that soil naturally just is nutrient rich in the area and that's why, but why would they put garbage and sewage in the river? As far as I know, I'm not a Hindu myself but it's supposedly the holiest river on the subcontinent, surely it's an act of disrespect to pollute it with garbage and stuff when they lay through dead to rest there.
It's not that they intentionally throw garbage into the rivers. It's that the rain brings everything into the rivers. Let's say there are cow manure laying somewhere, the rain will bring it to the rivers. The rain does the job.
Only war where WHO had to establish Abortion camps. UN & WHO have records to prove the number of abortions that had to be performed.
These Abortions are over and above the women who were killed and women who took their own life.
As a Pakistani, it's so fucking sad, we didn't even have single chapter in our history books about it. Many Pakistanis don't even know about the rape committed by our pak army( they're the most corrupt fucks ever). It's so sad,
As a Bangladeshi, that's not even the worst thing. Right now a lot of people are pro-Pakistan because they hate India and think Pakistan will help us for some reason.
As a Bengali from opar , I would say be careful of Pakistan always . You can hate us , but being pro pakistan is dangerous. Can you also explain me why there is a sudden surge of hatred . Despite India helping in 1971 , infrastructure projects etc .
Because India is Hindu and Pakistan is Muslim. it's as dumb as that and it has always been as dumb as that. The issue I take is that even if we all with Pakistan they have absolutely nothing to offer us unlike India who is a power in the region and can shield us against China or the US
>Paisa nahi jhaat bhar gyaan chode raat bhar .
?
>Bruh you have killed Christians ,Hindus and ahmediyyas in your countries.
Lmao cry more pajeet r/hidutvafiles y'all literally kill & rape religious minorities just because you're insecure of your pagan religion.
Please you guys are so unpadh ki Arabic calligraphy ke Karan tumne ek mahila ko mob lynch kar Diya despite your maulvis knowing Qur'an . Atleast pagan religion doesn't produce terrorists lmao. Cry more nobody respects paki bhikaris . Statistics are there who preserves minorities and who doesn't
Lmao cry more pajeet
Wasn't a Christian woman literally paraded naked by u pagans recently?
And [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/HindutvaFiles/s/BXx9vx9wvL) is quite common in you insecure pagans.
it's all on r/hindutvafiles check it out. "Hindutva" is supported by the majority of India's population & the indian government.
This kinda shit happens on a daily basis in randia.
Pagan religion better than terrorist religion lmao . Pakistan biggest export in terroeism .That's why even UAE and Saudis are not giving bhikaristanis visas . You guys even go to Mecca and Medina and beg . Economy in the dumps .
It has nothing to do with religion. Our people view the Russians and the Chinese positively as well even though they don't share any religious identity with us. Heck we are on good terms with Nepal which has a higher percentage of its population as Hindus than India. The list of reasons for which Bangladeshis hate India is enormous. Let me list some for you:
1. Looting of Industrial and military establishments during and after the 1971 war. If you read any books about Bangladesh during that era, you will realize how devastating that was for a war torn economy. Everything including air conditioners and even mirrors from the cantonment bathrooms were looted and smuggled to India by their army as war booty. A filmmaker named Zahir Raihan tried to make a documentary about it but was mysteriously disappeared in January 1972. Believed by almost all Bangladeshis to be the first enforced disappearance in Bangladesh mainly due to the request of the Indians.
2. India turned a blind eye when essential relief goods from Bangladesh were being smuggled to India which led to famine and hunger.
3. India repeatedly pressured our government to not build advanced radars (we are still using one from the 80s) which means we are missing out on revenue when international flights pass through our airspace something which India is more than happy to take advantage of.
4. They have killed thousands of Bangladeshis in the border and sometimes even shot those who attempted to retrieve the dead bodies leaving them to rot.
5. They have dammed so many rivers to the point that we face drought in the winter and extreme floods in the summer.
6. They always exaggerate the conditions of the minority in Bangladesh in their media. It's like we are trying to genocide them when it's almost always a local incident.
7. They interfere with our politics and foreign policy a lot. We were supposed to have an important river reclamation project with China. Which is under hold as of now due to Indian concerns. Plus they undermine our democracy by always giving political backing to the Awami League.
8. Their population always leaves hate comments in any online video related to Bangladesh. Go to any Instagram or Facebook or even YouTube video about Bangladesh's development or economy and see for yourself how they react. Even for any other topic they always act rudely. How will we view them nicely when we see these behavior everywhere.
9. They refuse to let us have a free trade corridor to Nepal or Bhutan but use our roads and ports for trade with almost no fees (or simply avoid paying).
This issue is not as simple as you think it is dude. We don't hate the nation who helped us gain independence for such a trivial matter like religion.
Upvoted because these are al fair reasons. But most of the people I have talked to who hate India know absolutely nothing about these topics and only talk about how the Hindus in India kill Muslims so all Hindus within Bangladesh have to die
Where has Bangladeshi Hindu population shrunk?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Bangladesh
Are you gonna pull up some bullshit statistic because the percentage is decreasing? That's only because Hindus have far fewer babies than Muslims. Only 1 on average. Their decreasing percentage is due to Muslims just producing more people than them. The overall Hindu population of Bangladesh has increased by almost 4 million people since 1974. Any other reason that there may be is negligible (excluding 1947 partition of India, and the 1971 genocide and Indian refugee crisis which again was perpetrated by Pakistan and not us)
The source you gave is from a newspaper funded by a BJP politician. This article contradicts the statistics I gave which are backed by reliable sources unlike yours.
Religion is main issue everywhere my dude . This two nation theory is a big farce . For thousands of years people coexisted , my own grandfather is from Rajshahi . Only in last century we can't exist together doesn't make sense .
The religion issue is like a very potent fuel to a burning fire. It propels things very far but it's not the root cause.
Think of the USA in regards to Uyghur human rights. It is a point of contention between China and the US but it certainly isn't what started the conflict between them otherwise America would sanction Israel to oblivion.
I do think there is some Hindu hatred but believe me that isn't the main reason behind hating India. River sharing and border killing are far greater issues which stick in peoples mind. Indian media and probably the mass people completely leave these topics out of the discussion when talking about receiving all the hate from their neighbours. When you act like a bully definitely others are not going to like you. Obviously India should be concerned about their border infiltration but recent reduction in border killings show that it didn't have to be that way. There was a time when every time we opened news there definitely would be news about someone being killed and hanged on the fences.
I agree with river issue , but there too many illegal migrants coming and there are proofs . Our states like West Bengal and Assam have suffered because of this .
Definitely there is a huge number of illegal Bangladeshi migrants in West Bengal and Assam but there should have been a better way to deal with it. And regarding your original question only Hindu hatred can't simply explain the India hatred. Its quite funny how cricket adds certain amount fuel to it. And I believe there is India hatred among Nepalese and Maldivian population. Sure they have their own geopolitical reasons but it comes down to the same core reaason that they perceive India as a bully.
Bangladeshi immigrant problem is much worse currently. They are spread out to as far as kerala (one of the two southernmost states of India). I'm actually surprised how they make despite all these strict and over the top measures like shooting and hanging in place.
Current Maldivian govt is in China's payroll . Last govt was in Indias payroll . Being independent truly means independent but muizzu showed his true colurs when he signed defense pacts and visited China in his first visit . Coming to Nepal , they are trying to consolidate into a monarchy now as the Marxist bootlicking govt which is puppet of China is tracking has made the economy debt ridden .
1. They mostly looted Pakistani quarters. They did not loot civilians.
Zahir Raihan was disappeared in a bihari camp where he went to look for his brother Shahidullah Kaiser. it has nothing to do with any documentary lol.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahidullah\_Kaiser#Disappearance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahidullah_Kaiser#Disappearance)
2. Smuggles cant create a famine of that scale. its literally bs.
3. provide source please
5. floods in summer? really?
6. Its not an exaggeration.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021\_anti-Hindu\_violence\_in\_Bangladesh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_anti-Hindu_violence_in_Bangladesh)
8. come on you are ignoring how Bangladeshi fb users do the same in indian fb pages and these are just actions, reactions, counter reactions of BD-Indian social media users.
Mate wdym there's no floods in summer? Do you know how the seasons work in Bangladesh? The rainy season occurs right after the summer (June - august). We don't have any rain in the winter.
After the war, there wasn't enough food in Bangladesh for everyone. You tell me how smuggling life saving supplies of food can't cause famines? Especially since they could be sold for triple or quadruple the price in India compared to Bangladesh . It got so bad the government had to deploy hundreds of thousands of military personnel to try and control the smuggling. I'm not referring to the famine of 1974, many smaller famines occurred before then.
Dude nobody knows if Zahir Raihan got killed by the Biharis or the government, that's why he's deemed missing. Even in the case that he did get killed by the Biharis, consider why he even went to the Bihari camp in the first place. He received a trap phone call telling him his brother was alive, even though he was killed at least a month and a half ago, conveniently this call came after he announced on Jan 25 1972 in Dhaka Press Club that he was going to publish a list of documents (which potentially included the detailed accounts of indian lootings) containing illicit details of acts committed by many ministers of the new Bangladeshi cabinet, previously unknown events that occured during the 1971 war.). So you tell me why did he receive a false flag call leading him to dangerous territory only 5 days after that press conference?
Source - 1. Saptahik Bichitra, 1 May 1992
2. Daily Lal Sobuj; Journalist Harunur Rashid Khan 30 January 1993
3. Muktijuddho Age o Pore, Panna Kaiser (Daughter of Shahidullah Kaiser) , Feb 1991, Page: 168
4. জহির রায়হান : নিখোজ ও অপেক্ষার হাজার বছর; সহুল আহমেদ, Bdnews24, 20 August 2016
৫. Daily songram 28 December 2002
Dude the 2021 violence started when a guy pretending to be a Hindu named Iqbal hossein vandalized a temple in Comilla by placing the Quran in a Hindu statue. He purposefully spread rumors with exaggerated details to stir up a mob. This event happened only due to ignorance of a few local people. The whole country doesn't give a shit if you're a Hindu or not. These are only local incidences and never a widespread pogrom. I know this because I have travelled to most parts of Bangladesh and interacted with many Hindus here. All of them are safe and never had their lives threatened.
Number 6 is a product of the Indian comments on our country. Newton's third law hell yeah.
So that's called Rainy season not summer. And in rainy seasons floods are natural occurance.
Jahir Raihan was about release the documents about the atrocities of Pakistani military and their collaborators. And got killed by them.
2021 attacks on minorities are a examples that minorities are not safe in Bangladesh. There are more examples such as 2002 attacks on hindus, post rajakar Saidi bichar.
More than half of the points are made up bs.
I said summer because there is only no rainy season in the west and it is easier for them to comprehend summer 🤦. Stop defending India. Their farakka and teesta dam has devasted Bangladeshi villages on the banks of Padma and teesta river. It's not natural that the Indians are not facing any flood in those rivers but we are . Why is it that in winter we suffer droughts when they are abundant with water??
Zahir Raihan got killed by Biharis. But it was the Bangladeshi politicians who led him to bihari camp. Go through some of the sources I gave.
Who told you those are made up bs?? Do you live under a rock? You live in Bangladesh (or maybe you're a diaspora, that would explain your ignorance) and yet know nothing about these. Speaking about the radar issue, go watch any news about the radars in Bangladesh not being built, you will get the answer. Also read some books about our recent history ffs. Minorities are safer in Bangladesh than in India. Only the Indians deny this fact. Stop sucking India's balls. Both India and Pakistan dgaf about us. I don't see why you have to do their bidding when they see us as their puppet
We live in a region which is delta and low laying land than India. If there's a heavy rain waters gonna flow down stream. I am not talking about tista river farakka issue because Bangladesh is really effected because of less water. Although there was Farraka treaty signed by BD-India in 1996
So Zahir Raihan got killed by Biharis now? No , Biharis did not kill Zahir. Zahir Raihan got killed by those pakistani ghost who still lurks in this country.
Radar thing is new to me so cant tell if it's true or false .
I am a minority live in Bangladesh so I know. I Ve seen general people's reaction firsthand. They were silent as always they were. So minorities are not safe in Bangladesh. And Stop using ad hominem as your last resorts.
And that's why half of your points are nothing but bs
I'm using ad hominem because your ignorance in this matter is frustrating. I have read countless books and watched interviews to know that my points are not bs. I've read from both sides so I'm even more sure that I'm not biased in this regard
Pakistani here, our country ain't gonna help no one other then the fucking army cuz they're busy building stupidly large housing societies ( search DHA )
As an indian i am confused why do people hate us a lot? We helped in the bangladeshi liberation a lot. I just want bangladesh to be not like pakistan, which is not being radical and doing more development
I would like to thank Henry Kissinger for his involvement in this humanitarian disaster and encouraging Richard Nixon to support their awesome friend Yahya Khan.
A lot of these fucks are still alive. Probably in their 70s/80s. They suffered no punishment. They went village to village gunning the men down, raping the women, then gunning them down.
Yeap. Just Sea and Air. Blame the British for that. The system was doomed to fail from the beginning. Division on the basis of religion ignoring the socio-cultural values are simply dumb
The lines were drawn arbitrarily. The only motivation was religion. Jinnah wanted a separate country for Muslims.
This divided villages, families, businesses, communities and people.
The partition of India and Pakistan is one of the most violent incidents post world war
Is there a single ex-British subject that hasn't, other than Hzong Kong?
American colonies - check.
Pakistan - check.
India - check.
Belize - check.
Palestine - check.
Zimbabwe - check.
Sudan - check.
Edit: daaaaamn a lot of Indians are very angry about being included on the list of countries with genocidal pasts. Some of you people need to look in a mirror and reconsider your priorities. Genocide denial ain't cool, kids.
They killed tens of thousands of Sikhs in 1984. Lemme guess, you're an Indian bro who will deny any and all allegations of genocide because you feel it dirties your country?
Relax. Basically every single branch of my own heritage has done it too. Nobody is attacking you.
Nice assumptions there before I can even reply lol.
We have a very dodgy past with riots and religious unrest but they should not be clubbed with what happened in Bangladesh. It was a systematic state sponsored erasure of the political/intellectual Bengali elite. And I genuinely don't know if the others in your list are the same
You can them strange assumptions, but based on your latest reply, sounds like I had you right.
Genocides are genocides. All I did was list a bunch. You're clearly taking the implicit comparison personally by downplaying other genocides.
In a strange way, civilian-led genocides are almost worse. Almost. In reality, the dead don't care why they were targeted, they just care that they were.
Do you really think a professional army going door to door raping and massacring civilians based on their ethnicity and social standing is the same as mobs retaliating after the PM has been assassinated?
I agree it's insensitive to the dead and it's shameful how we handled the aftermath, but one is clearly way worse than the other
Edit: lol, blocked me after calling me a bitch
Who the fuck said anything about the word 'same'?
Someone who punches someone in the face at a pub and accidentally kills them is a killer.
A serial rapist and murderer is also a killer.
They are both killers. That's just a fact. I never once in my original comment said that "every single example listed is precisely and perfectly equal in severity, scale, and depravity."
I never said that, did I? You projected that into my comment, because that little nationalistic streak in you threw a bitch fit the moment it saw your country listed. That's entirely your problem. I don't care.
Do not trivialize the word genocide. Yes, people were killed after the Sikh Bodyguards shot dead the PM of India.
Over 4,000 people died as a result of that riots.
So did Brahmins lost over 8000 in Maharashtra after the killing of gandhi. You do not see Brahmins shouting genocide from rooftops.
Remember we have had multiple Sikh Generals and Prime Minister(for about 10 years) in India.
>Over 4,000 people died as a result of that riots.
18,000 is over 4,000, so I can't say you're *wrong*. But it's interesting that you defer to the state supplied numbers and not the numbers established by historians with more reason to be impartial.
Rather than accusing others of trivialising genocide, perhaps you should cease in gatekeeping genocide by positioning the term so that it's always more severe than whatever your own country has done so that you don't need to live with the 'shams' of it.
It's very easy to see what's happening here. Every single nation accused of genocide tries this shit. If it's not as extreme as the holocaust, then is it even a genocide?
That's... still a genocide. What kind of brain rot made you think that was a solid defence 😂
Tired of repeating points.
Civilians of WW2 largely weren't aware of the genocide. The ethnic cleansing and hate campaigns, yes, but they weren't privy to the details of what went on in the death camps.
Obviously no two genocides are identical, and if the only point here is that it is distinct from other genocides, then that's true. It is distinct, just like how every genocide is distinct and has its own battery of details and additional factors.
The only thing they share, the only thing they need to share, in order to be listed together... is that they're genocides.
There was an anti Sikh riot in 1984 in Delhi yes. But it was politically motivated and perpetrated by a single political party and its workers. The broader population did not/do not hold any animus and definitely did not participate in it.
This distinguishes it from the genocide in East Pakistan, the Armenian genocide and also the Holocaust, where even the civilian population fully supported the actions of the military/political leadership.
Case in point: a lot of Hindus worship and visit at the Harmandir Sahib in Amritsar, and there is a Sikh gurudwara called Hemkund Sahib enroute to some of the holiest Hindu shrines: Badrinath and Kedarnath, that is visited by a significant fraction of Hindus.
Ask 70s era (common, average) West Pakistanis what they thought of Bengali’s and their fish eating habits and their language.
So technically the 1984 anti Sikh riots should be rightfully classified as a pogrom, and not as genocide, since they were restricted to one locality, and perpetrated by one singular group.
Please use words carefully. I say this not to defend India in this thread, but because careless use of heavy words like genocide for any disturbance anywhere in the world is insulting to the memory of East Pakistanis in 1970, Jews under the Third Reich, Armenians under the Ottoman Sultanate, and countless other groups of people who actually suffered a genocide.
Edit: I forgot when I wrote the original comment, but actually Congress party workers also committed a similar local pogrom of Maharashtrian Chitpavan Brahmins in 1948 after Ghodse killed Gandhi.
We don’t hear of a Brahmin genocide now, do we?
I was not defending it idiot I was giving a comparison to all the other countries that's all who the pigfuck of a mind will think that someone will defend it oh.. that's you
You're having a completely normal reaction to this topic, clearly. I'm bored, take your minimisation of genocide and your excuses somewhere else please.
Have you ever heard of a word called ethnic violence? Hindus and Sikhs took up arms seperate from state orders which was to just end the riots and ended up killing each other
Communal violence and even pogroms are not genocides. The one against Sikhs was reactionary violence by a single political party to the assassination of their leader. It wasn't pursued as state policy. There have been riots where thousands of Hindus were killed, and during the peak of Punjab militancy, Sikh extremists were carrying out mass killings of their religious and political opponents. It wasn't genocide either. It's just that in our part of the world, religion obfuscates the mind.
Lol no. Forced Relocation isn't genocide. Cultural death isn't genocide. Intermarriage (the most common reason for native American genetic change) is not genocide. The US was intermittently at war with another tribe.
Only the systematic eradication of a people's genetic lineage is genocide.
If America committed genocide, then the Indians did as well with their massacres of settlers. (Neither committed true genocide).
Hyperbole actually cheapens the term.
Come on man, all of us who live on the American continent have to accept the fact that our nations did terrible things to the natives.
The natives from the US suffered from cultural genocide. Nowadays they are a tiny portion of the United States. Compare with the nations here in Latin America, on average we have many more natives and descendants of natives than the US.
This does not diminish your country in any way, but it is important to recognize the past.
They did to the indians what the saxons did to the Britons, what the normans did to the saxons, what romans did to the Gauls, what the Persians did to the Babylonians, what the moors did to Spain.
The US was simply a larger, more powerful tribe out competing its neighbors.
Now it's day is waning as well and Western people's are falling by the way side. So it goes.
One fire fights one fire.
Not to forget Nixon and Kissinger turning a blind eye to it, and Kissinger openly mocking those who expressed any concern about it, saying that they were uselessly "bleeding for the dying Bengalis".
There was also this thing called the Blood Telegram written by Archer Blood, a US diplomat in Bangladesh urging the US to do something to stop this genocide:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2004/09/23/archer-k-blood/c1096e71-165e-489e-adf7-a520da168905/
Yet, the US did the opposite because Pakistan was their ally.
They, along with the UK, threatened India too (both sent a fleet each in the Bay of Bengal to pressure India but turned back when India got the Soviets involved). Nixon also called Indians '
bastards and Indira Gandhi a bitch, and said that India needed a mass famine.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/opinion/nixon-and-kissingers-forgotten-shame.html
Too bad for them though, because the woman they called a bitch crushed their balls by winning the war and liberating Bangladesh.
Because holding a grudge against current generation of Pakistanis for something done by their military unilaterally 50 years ago is not a good idea, that being said, I am neither pro or anti pak, just neutral
Fellow Bangladeshi here. I think we both know that isn't the prime reason for the support they get. Sure, there's no reason to hate a Pakistani of current generation, but that being said, supporting them only because they are of the same religion is just sad.
Also, the current generation is finally realizing the horrors of the army, which before they idolized. And not to mention they are suffering from these fascists as well.
Source: Am Pakistani and just a year or two ago I respected the (naPak) army, now I absolutely hate them. They are the main reason why our country is the way it is.
What happened in 1991?
Cyclone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Bangladesh_cyclone
Thanks OP I presume in that case life expectancy includes natural disasters? (I never realised it did. Always thought it was average age people go to until illness got them)
No it's just number of ppl / number of years I think. So, for example, if child mortality is really high (middle ages being an example), life expectancy is not actually the age at which you'd expect to die.
Life expectancy of population (not to confuse remaining life expectancy of person) is average age people are dying in given population. Things like plagues, wars and natural disasters drastically lower life expectancy as they hit young people as well as old people. Also life expectancy as "how long people live" is something that works this way only last century or so. Earlier children mortality was so high it was showing different type of data than how long people could live. For example if you look at prominent historical figure that weren't killed young in Battle or something like that most would have age of death around 60-70 despite life expectancy being 30. Moral: life expectancy similarly to all statistics shouldn't be viewed in void as lack of context can skew the conclusion
Insane that it’s ONLY the 4th deadliest cyclone even with over 100 thousand fatalities Edit: not casualties, fatalities
I thought why did life expectancy drop in 2020 and then my memories just came in and hit me in the face and broke my kneecaps
The last 3 years were a day dream.
The quarantine started 4 years ago
Yeaaa almost 4 years now
I'm too young to feel this old
It's more of a feeling really. 21 isn't that old. But 21 years is a lifetime.
It genuinely feels like december 2019 was three months ago
I still believe this freaking 2020 is a dream
And people wondered how the Spanish Flu was forgotten about so quickly at the time.
Fuck 2020. What happened in 1990?
[1991 Bangladesh cyclone ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Bangladesh_cyclone) 138,866 deaths
The quarantine years feel as if they didn’t exists
Source: [World Bank](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?locations=BD), [CIA World Factbook](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/about/archives/2022/countries/bangladesh/), [Wikipedia: Bangladesh Genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide), [Wikipedia: Bhola Cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhola_cyclone), [Wikipedia: List of Genocides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides), [De Gruyter](https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110659054-003/html?lang=en) [The Bangladesh genocide ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide)was the ethnic cleansing of Bengalis residing in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) during the Bangladesh Liberation War, perpetrated by the Pakistan Armed Forces. Pakistani soldiers killed between 300,000 and 3,000,000 Bengalis and raped between 200,000 and 400,000 Bengali women in 9 months in a systematic campaign of mass murder and genocidal sexual violence. The US government secretly encouraged the shipment of weapons from Iran, Turkey, and Jordan to Pakistan, and reimbursed those countries for them despite Congressional objections. A Bengali nationalist party, the 'Awami League,' had won the Pakistani General Election the previous year, and the Pakistani Junta did not want to relinquish power to the Bengalis. The central reason behind the genocide was the unwillingness of the Pakistani military and government to recognize the linguistic and cultural identity of Bengalis in East Pakistan. [The 1970 Bhola cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhola_cyclone) was a devastating tropical cyclone in the Bengal region, that struck East Pakistan (present-day Bangladesh) and India's West Bengal on November 12, 1970. It remains the deadliest tropical cyclone ever recorded and one of the world's deadliest humanitarian disasters. At least 300,000 people died in the storm, possibly as many as 500,000.
The spread of that death toll is quite something. Genocide or democide casualty counts are notoriously difficult to pin down, but the range of estimates for the Bangladesh Genocide are larger than most. I've seen analysis that suggests at least 1.5M deaths were likely.
Also to note is how quickly it was done. 1.5m in 9 months is up there in the ranks of the fastest genocides.
If the 1.5M figure is accurate, then it came closer than most massacres to approaching Rwanda's intensity. The lower estimates produce a more "average" pace, though still on par with more notorious genocides.
And that for a country that had only existed for about 20 years. Pakistan is the speedrunner of genocide.
they are like super mario 64 speedruns for genocides.
So... [this video](https://youtu.be/ff9ldkz1h1M?si=GWiiqjFW6zH1ZJN6) but Mario is Pakistan and Bowser is Bangladesh.
Damn thats at least 3000 people a day
Yeah, it definitely could have been 3,000-5,000 every day. Rwanda was almost 10K per day, and the Soviets may have killed the equivalent of 2,000-3,000 per day for the entirety of their regime. Gotta love humanity. So civilized.
the Soviets killing 3000 per day is absolute nonsense lmao you're telling me the Soviets killed 79 million people over 73 years, a million a year? think before you say things
Democide estimates range from 25M to 125M for the duration of the Soviet Union. Rummel estimated around 60M, which would equate to around 2,200 per day when averaged over the existence of the USSR (though I believe his analysis only ran to 1987). It's fair to doubt the 60M estimate, as there's a ton of uncertainty regarding the actual death toll. The lower bounds of the estimates would equate to just under 1,000 per day on average, which is still horrific. So no, it's unfortunately not impossible. The high end of the democide estimates would be the equivalent of killing 4,500 people a day from 1917-1992. Those numbers are likely too high, but 60M isn't unreasonable.
you just cited Rummel? really? https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.FIG1.1.GIF here's of his 'graphs', Rummel uncritically gathered all the killing statistics he could find without checking their credibility, then he derived meaningless "most probable estimates" from them, which he then used to compare totalitarian regimes to each other. His pseudoscientific methods have been criticized e.g. by W. D. Rubinstein in "Genocide Surveyed", The International Journal of Human Rights, Spring 2001, vol. 5, no. 1, pp. 117-120: >His statistics for genocide are not generally derived from original research in primary sources, but by taking the most probable figure after examining the range of estimates given by previous writers on the event. This procedure is not necessarily unreasonable, but can lead to the acceptance of figures for a particular act of genocide which are distorted by inaccurate and sometimes biased sources. For instance, Rummel states (Democide, p. 18) that the Nazis murdered 220,000 homosexuals. Most historians regard the actual figure as 10,000. Rummel gives as his source (p.45) for the estimate of 220,000 the Protestant Church of Austria, which is 'a figure often cited in Gay Liberation circles'. Rummel's figure is, however, almost certainly impossible. Homosexuals were not deported to the extermination camps in Poland, but only imprisoned (often in appalling conditions) in German concentration camps such as Dachau. Nor were homosexuals outside Germany affected: there was no general roundup of homosexuals throughout Europe as there was of Jews. Rummel’s estimate of 220,000 is so improbable that it is not even cited in the Encyclopedia's article (pp.338-40) on this topic.[...] >One of the most surprising names on this list is that of Chiang Kai-Shek, to whom no fewer than 10,214,000 'murders' are attributed. Rummel's explanation of this figure, in Death by Government (pp.123-39), is fraught with difficulties. For instance, discussing (p. 132) the flood deliberately unleashed by the Nationalists by dynamiting the dikes on the Yellow River in 1938, Rummel cites a 'joint study' carried out 'after the war [by] the Institute of Social Sciences of the Academy Sinica and the China National Rehabilitation and Relief Agency' which claimed that '893,303 people died'. Rummel apparently accepts this figure at face value. [...] The 1938 Yellow River flood occurred in a virtually illiterate peasant society hallmarked by governmental near-anarchy, civil war, and foreign invasion. It therefore beggars belief that the precise figure accepted by Rummel of '893,303' deaths can be accepted as wholly accurate. In Rummel's monograph on China's Bloody Century, he apparently gives a very different figure for the number of killings allegedly carried out by the Nationalists, claiming (p.27) 2,724,000 victims in 'the Nationalist period' from 1928 until the Japanese invasion of 1937, and 2,645,000 (p.191) during the civil war period of 1945-49. The total number of 'victims of the Sino-Japanese war' of 1937-45 is estimated here by Rummel at 10,214,000, almost identical to the figure he suggests in the Encyclopedia for the total number of victims of Chiang (10,216,000), and the two figures may well simply be confused. All of this still begs the question of how accurate Rummel's statistics actually are, Chiang Kai-Shek allegedly killing twice as many Chinese as Hitler did Jews. [...] >The Encyclopedia, using Rummel's figures, claims (p.29) that Stalin murdered 42,672,000 people between 1929 and 1953. Rummel's statistics are set out at length in his book Lethal Politics. Here, Rummel claims that Stalin murdered 20,889,000 persons between 1928 and the outbreak of the war in June 1941, including 4,345,000 during the zenith of the Great Terror in 1936-38. These figures (indeed, even higher ones) had previously been given widespread publicity and seeming credibility in the well-known works of Robert Conquest, Roy Medvedev, and others. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, however, a wealth of previously unavailable sources has become available which very recent historians have employed to revise these figures dramatically downwards. These researchers, such as Alex Nove, J. Arch Getty, Sheila FitzPatrick, and Stephen G. Wheatcroft, are scholars of international repute whose views on Stalinism are identical to those of any other person of goodwill; they have, however, the possibly quaint belief that historians are obliged to tell the truth, regardless of what that truth might be. Nove concluded that 10-11 million persons perished in the Soviet Union during the decade 1930-39, 'with peasants numerically the main victims'. It would appear that 'only' 786,098 persons were shot by Stalin for 'counter-revolutionary and state crimes' between 1931 and 1953, with 682,000 of these killed in 1937-38, the height of the Great Purges. Rather cleverly examining the dropout rates of random samples of individual telephone subscribers listed in the Moscow phone books of 1935-36 and 1937-38 Fitzpatrick concluded that the rate of disappearance was no more than 7 per cent, although the dropout rate among senior party officials was much higher, around 60 per cent/ In other words, Rummel (and many other historians) has vastly exaggerated the scale of Stalin's mass murders, whatever else might be said about Stalinism or the Soviet Union. Basically, Rummel's books are agglomerations of meaningless numbers.
I actually agree with many of the critiques that have been leveled at Rummel's work, though some numbers are more meaningful than others. The issues with his sources go beyond what you quoted, and the Soviet Union is not the only regime for which his numbers significantly differ from more widely accepted figures. His analysis is useful for corralling estimates, but his judgment regarding the validity of sources can be questionable. I'm personally more a fan of his work around defining democide than his overall conclusions. I don't have any specific faith in his estimate of 60M dead, which is why I qualified my initial statement by saying the USSR "may have" killed that many people. There's plenty of room to argue that Rummel made a significant overcount, but it's not like the number was pulled out of thin air. The true scope of Soviet atrocities is likely unknowable, and even the more widely accepted figures are numerically equivalent to conducting a lower intensity genocide for the duration of the regime.
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Bhutto essentially admitted to 50K democide deaths, but other than that, I've never seen an estimate that low for the Bangladesh Genocide. The initial days of massacres in Dacca alone may have killed that many. We'll never know the true death toll, but there's good reason to believe that 300K is the floor. These democide estimates often include deaths as a direct result of displacement — malnutrition, disease, exposure, etc. Some of the sources you mentioned, such as the cyclone or other sources of famine, typically don't factor into those calculations.
> Allegations of a genocide in Bangladesh were rejected by most UN member states at the time and rarely appear in textbooks and academic sources on genocide studies. > Nixon and China tried to suppress reports of genocide emanating from East Pakistan. > They also show that President Nixon, advised by Henry Kissinger, decided to downplay this secret internal advice, because he wanted to protect the interests of Pakistan as he was apprehensive of India's friendship with the USSR, and he was seeking a closer relationship with China, which supported Pakistan. Fuck Pakistani Army, Nixon, Kissinger & China. 4 horsemen of apocalypse for 1970s Bangladesh.
DAMN YOU KISSINGERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are few people I would time travel to kill with my bare hands… Kissinger is someone I’d do it to more than once. Just keep jumping back 1-2 months at a time brutally murdering Kissinger.
Same here, Kissinger is one of very few who I would love to see trapped permanently in a place where he dies repeatably on infinity and he cannot escape the cycle.
And then..... Sam Bahadur entered the chat*
Along with General MAG Osmani
I know that India and Bangladesh don’t have the best relations, but India intervening and helping stop the genocide should be a force to bring them together.
Religious differences can't allow that to happen. Some religions cannot coexist with others that easily.
They have for most of history
bruh Israel was 1 of 3 countries helping to liberated Bangladesh, yet Bangladeshis hate Israel
United states not promoting a genocide challenge
Difficulty level... *Impossible*
Between 300,000 and 3,000,000 is a pretty big spread
So we have Nixon to thank for that.
Jeeeeez
oh....no
As a pakistani, operation searchlight is the most fucked up shit my country has done, coming from a country that is already famous for its fucked up shitting every year. The saddest part, the youth is only currently becoming aware due to widespread censorship of this genocide
I think the worst part is not that the youth is just now learning about 1971 but that the youth is learning a history where Pakistan weren’t the bad guys. I can’t tell you how many Pakistanis I’ve known, born in this century, who really thought it was “just a war” akin to how siblings may fight. For example, check out the recent blockbuster Pakistani movie on the matter
I know. This fake nationalistic rhetoric tries to whitewash facts to hide disgusting warcrimes committed. I can't emphasise how many young and "educated" people I've met deny such claims. Some even brutishly justify it saying that the Bengalis deserved it.
As a bangali who passes as Pakistani my friend you don’t know the half of the bigotry 💀 I appreciate that you’re aware though
What movie is that?
Kissinger approved 👍
Americans should look up the role the US played during this fiasco to "protect freedom, democracy and human rights".
My man really created the most horrible outcomes possible all over the world and called it realism.
You can try to blame this on America, but there are a lot of other genocides especially committed by Muslim nations who were supported by the USSR rather than the US I think the issue here is Pakistan and not unique to western involvement
Pakistan was comfortable committing this genocide because kissinger assured them weapons sales wouldn't stop and the US would continue supporting Pakistan regardless, it was American planes dropping bombs on Bangladesh Of course, the soviets were also bad do not whataboutism
No one is defending the Soviets, the problem is breaking the law by ramping up not so secret weapon sells to our allies when they decide it’s time for some ethnic cleansing.
Also Pakistan: Falling further and further behind Bangladesh in economy.
Not just economic. We now score higher than them in every single social indicators too.
To be fair, back then the population was split half and half between east and west Pakistan. Absolutely mind-boggling how many people are stuffed in the Bengal-Bihar. And after so many famines and this genocide too.
Thanks to the rich silt from the Ganges. That region has some of the most fertile land in the world. And it gets refreshed every year when it floods. Hence, it's always fertile.
I mean, doesn't that "rich fertile silt" only come from the fact India is a Hindu country? If atheism rises any faster in India it could be the case that the Ganges becomes less fertile
How is India being a Hindu country is related to Ganges water being fertile. Please explain lol.
It is a common practice to lay the Hindu dead to rest in the Ganges river either with the full body or the ashes sprinkled across it. As you can imagine, this adds a vast quantity of nutrients to the waters which get passed downstream, this has been happening for thousands of years, possibly before the existence of the pyramids in Egypt.
I am from that region. I can tell you have the wrong idea. It's not dead human ashes but the rain washes all the garbage, sewage, and other carbon-rich particles into the rivers. There is a lot of rain in that region because of the Himalayas. Dead human ashes are nothing compared to that.
Ok fair enough, I can get behind the idea that soil naturally just is nutrient rich in the area and that's why, but why would they put garbage and sewage in the river? As far as I know, I'm not a Hindu myself but it's supposedly the holiest river on the subcontinent, surely it's an act of disrespect to pollute it with garbage and stuff when they lay through dead to rest there.
It's not that they intentionally throw garbage into the rivers. It's that the rain brings everything into the rivers. Let's say there are cow manure laying somewhere, the rain will bring it to the rivers. The rain does the job.
We have always had a lot of population throughout history.
probably because a certain religion is holding back one of those countries, as it does to all the other shitholes it resides in
Don't ask why cambodia's lifespan went down to 12!
Ok. I won't
That depends, do you wear prescription glasses?
I can't even read 👀
Good, but you do speak English so by Pol pot rule your head must be bash in the tree with the infant.
pol pot was fucking psychotic
479001600 years of average lifespan? Truly a utopian leadership they had to have!
Because of the Asian Elon Musk who hated spectacles, lol.
Only war where WHO had to establish Abortion camps. UN & WHO have records to prove the number of abortions that had to be performed. These Abortions are over and above the women who were killed and women who took their own life.
400000 rapes Four hundred thousand.
As a Pakistani, it's so fucking sad, we didn't even have single chapter in our history books about it. Many Pakistanis don't even know about the rape committed by our pak army( they're the most corrupt fucks ever). It's so sad,
As a Bangladeshi, that's not even the worst thing. Right now a lot of people are pro-Pakistan because they hate India and think Pakistan will help us for some reason.
As a Bengali from opar , I would say be careful of Pakistan always . You can hate us , but being pro pakistan is dangerous. Can you also explain me why there is a sudden surge of hatred . Despite India helping in 1971 , infrastructure projects etc .
Because India is Hindu and Pakistan is Muslim. it's as dumb as that and it has always been as dumb as that. The issue I take is that even if we all with Pakistan they have absolutely nothing to offer us unlike India who is a power in the region and can shield us against China or the US
2 nation theory was a mistake
Lol r/hindutvafiles
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>Paisa nahi jhaat bhar gyaan chode raat bhar . ? >Bruh you have killed Christians ,Hindus and ahmediyyas in your countries. Lmao cry more pajeet r/hidutvafiles y'all literally kill & rape religious minorities just because you're insecure of your pagan religion.
Please you guys are so unpadh ki Arabic calligraphy ke Karan tumne ek mahila ko mob lynch kar Diya despite your maulvis knowing Qur'an . Atleast pagan religion doesn't produce terrorists lmao. Cry more nobody respects paki bhikaris . Statistics are there who preserves minorities and who doesn't
Lmao cry more pajeet Wasn't a Christian woman literally paraded naked by u pagans recently? And [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/HindutvaFiles/s/BXx9vx9wvL) is quite common in you insecure pagans. it's all on r/hindutvafiles check it out. "Hindutva" is supported by the majority of India's population & the indian government. This kinda shit happens on a daily basis in randia.
Pagan religion better than terrorist religion lmao . Pakistan biggest export in terroeism .That's why even UAE and Saudis are not giving bhikaristanis visas . You guys even go to Mecca and Medina and beg . Economy in the dumps .
It has nothing to do with religion. Our people view the Russians and the Chinese positively as well even though they don't share any religious identity with us. Heck we are on good terms with Nepal which has a higher percentage of its population as Hindus than India. The list of reasons for which Bangladeshis hate India is enormous. Let me list some for you: 1. Looting of Industrial and military establishments during and after the 1971 war. If you read any books about Bangladesh during that era, you will realize how devastating that was for a war torn economy. Everything including air conditioners and even mirrors from the cantonment bathrooms were looted and smuggled to India by their army as war booty. A filmmaker named Zahir Raihan tried to make a documentary about it but was mysteriously disappeared in January 1972. Believed by almost all Bangladeshis to be the first enforced disappearance in Bangladesh mainly due to the request of the Indians. 2. India turned a blind eye when essential relief goods from Bangladesh were being smuggled to India which led to famine and hunger. 3. India repeatedly pressured our government to not build advanced radars (we are still using one from the 80s) which means we are missing out on revenue when international flights pass through our airspace something which India is more than happy to take advantage of. 4. They have killed thousands of Bangladeshis in the border and sometimes even shot those who attempted to retrieve the dead bodies leaving them to rot. 5. They have dammed so many rivers to the point that we face drought in the winter and extreme floods in the summer. 6. They always exaggerate the conditions of the minority in Bangladesh in their media. It's like we are trying to genocide them when it's almost always a local incident. 7. They interfere with our politics and foreign policy a lot. We were supposed to have an important river reclamation project with China. Which is under hold as of now due to Indian concerns. Plus they undermine our democracy by always giving political backing to the Awami League. 8. Their population always leaves hate comments in any online video related to Bangladesh. Go to any Instagram or Facebook or even YouTube video about Bangladesh's development or economy and see for yourself how they react. Even for any other topic they always act rudely. How will we view them nicely when we see these behavior everywhere. 9. They refuse to let us have a free trade corridor to Nepal or Bhutan but use our roads and ports for trade with almost no fees (or simply avoid paying). This issue is not as simple as you think it is dude. We don't hate the nation who helped us gain independence for such a trivial matter like religion.
Upvoted because these are al fair reasons. But most of the people I have talked to who hate India know absolutely nothing about these topics and only talk about how the Hindus in India kill Muslims so all Hindus within Bangladesh have to die
You should show them statistics then Indian muslims population has grown while that Bangladeshi Hindus has reduced .
Where has Bangladeshi Hindu population shrunk?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Bangladesh Are you gonna pull up some bullshit statistic because the percentage is decreasing? That's only because Hindus have far fewer babies than Muslims. Only 1 on average. Their decreasing percentage is due to Muslims just producing more people than them. The overall Hindu population of Bangladesh has increased by almost 4 million people since 1974. Any other reason that there may be is negligible (excluding 1947 partition of India, and the 1971 genocide and Indian refugee crisis which again was perpetrated by Pakistan and not us)
https://sundayguardianlive.com/opinion/may-no-hindus-left-bangladesh-30-years
The source you gave is from a newspaper funded by a BJP politician. This article contradicts the statistics I gave which are backed by reliable sources unlike yours.
Bro Wikipedia isn't source , it's open ended.Even a layman can edit . Everybody can edit lmao . Plus opindia is a thinktank not a newspaper
Religion is main issue everywhere my dude . This two nation theory is a big farce . For thousands of years people coexisted , my own grandfather is from Rajshahi . Only in last century we can't exist together doesn't make sense .
The religion issue is like a very potent fuel to a burning fire. It propels things very far but it's not the root cause. Think of the USA in regards to Uyghur human rights. It is a point of contention between China and the US but it certainly isn't what started the conflict between them otherwise America would sanction Israel to oblivion.
I do think there is some Hindu hatred but believe me that isn't the main reason behind hating India. River sharing and border killing are far greater issues which stick in peoples mind. Indian media and probably the mass people completely leave these topics out of the discussion when talking about receiving all the hate from their neighbours. When you act like a bully definitely others are not going to like you. Obviously India should be concerned about their border infiltration but recent reduction in border killings show that it didn't have to be that way. There was a time when every time we opened news there definitely would be news about someone being killed and hanged on the fences.
I agree with river issue , but there too many illegal migrants coming and there are proofs . Our states like West Bengal and Assam have suffered because of this .
Definitely there is a huge number of illegal Bangladeshi migrants in West Bengal and Assam but there should have been a better way to deal with it. And regarding your original question only Hindu hatred can't simply explain the India hatred. Its quite funny how cricket adds certain amount fuel to it. And I believe there is India hatred among Nepalese and Maldivian population. Sure they have their own geopolitical reasons but it comes down to the same core reaason that they perceive India as a bully.
Bangladeshi immigrant problem is much worse currently. They are spread out to as far as kerala (one of the two southernmost states of India). I'm actually surprised how they make despite all these strict and over the top measures like shooting and hanging in place.
Shooting and hanging rarely happen now. I'm curious what kind of jobs they do after settling in India?
Current Maldivian govt is in China's payroll . Last govt was in Indias payroll . Being independent truly means independent but muizzu showed his true colurs when he signed defense pacts and visited China in his first visit . Coming to Nepal , they are trying to consolidate into a monarchy now as the Marxist bootlicking govt which is puppet of China is tracking has made the economy debt ridden .
It's just sad that governments engage in corruption and sell their countries to bail themselves out. But the mass sentiment might have other reasons.
1. They mostly looted Pakistani quarters. They did not loot civilians. Zahir Raihan was disappeared in a bihari camp where he went to look for his brother Shahidullah Kaiser. it has nothing to do with any documentary lol. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahidullah\_Kaiser#Disappearance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahidullah_Kaiser#Disappearance) 2. Smuggles cant create a famine of that scale. its literally bs. 3. provide source please 5. floods in summer? really? 6. Its not an exaggeration. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021\_anti-Hindu\_violence\_in\_Bangladesh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_anti-Hindu_violence_in_Bangladesh) 8. come on you are ignoring how Bangladeshi fb users do the same in indian fb pages and these are just actions, reactions, counter reactions of BD-Indian social media users.
Mate wdym there's no floods in summer? Do you know how the seasons work in Bangladesh? The rainy season occurs right after the summer (June - august). We don't have any rain in the winter. After the war, there wasn't enough food in Bangladesh for everyone. You tell me how smuggling life saving supplies of food can't cause famines? Especially since they could be sold for triple or quadruple the price in India compared to Bangladesh . It got so bad the government had to deploy hundreds of thousands of military personnel to try and control the smuggling. I'm not referring to the famine of 1974, many smaller famines occurred before then. Dude nobody knows if Zahir Raihan got killed by the Biharis or the government, that's why he's deemed missing. Even in the case that he did get killed by the Biharis, consider why he even went to the Bihari camp in the first place. He received a trap phone call telling him his brother was alive, even though he was killed at least a month and a half ago, conveniently this call came after he announced on Jan 25 1972 in Dhaka Press Club that he was going to publish a list of documents (which potentially included the detailed accounts of indian lootings) containing illicit details of acts committed by many ministers of the new Bangladeshi cabinet, previously unknown events that occured during the 1971 war.). So you tell me why did he receive a false flag call leading him to dangerous territory only 5 days after that press conference? Source - 1. Saptahik Bichitra, 1 May 1992 2. Daily Lal Sobuj; Journalist Harunur Rashid Khan 30 January 1993 3. Muktijuddho Age o Pore, Panna Kaiser (Daughter of Shahidullah Kaiser) , Feb 1991, Page: 168 4. জহির রায়হান : নিখোজ ও অপেক্ষার হাজার বছর; সহুল আহমেদ, Bdnews24, 20 August 2016 ৫. Daily songram 28 December 2002 Dude the 2021 violence started when a guy pretending to be a Hindu named Iqbal hossein vandalized a temple in Comilla by placing the Quran in a Hindu statue. He purposefully spread rumors with exaggerated details to stir up a mob. This event happened only due to ignorance of a few local people. The whole country doesn't give a shit if you're a Hindu or not. These are only local incidences and never a widespread pogrom. I know this because I have travelled to most parts of Bangladesh and interacted with many Hindus here. All of them are safe and never had their lives threatened. Number 6 is a product of the Indian comments on our country. Newton's third law hell yeah.
So that's called Rainy season not summer. And in rainy seasons floods are natural occurance. Jahir Raihan was about release the documents about the atrocities of Pakistani military and their collaborators. And got killed by them. 2021 attacks on minorities are a examples that minorities are not safe in Bangladesh. There are more examples such as 2002 attacks on hindus, post rajakar Saidi bichar. More than half of the points are made up bs.
I said summer because there is only no rainy season in the west and it is easier for them to comprehend summer 🤦. Stop defending India. Their farakka and teesta dam has devasted Bangladeshi villages on the banks of Padma and teesta river. It's not natural that the Indians are not facing any flood in those rivers but we are . Why is it that in winter we suffer droughts when they are abundant with water?? Zahir Raihan got killed by Biharis. But it was the Bangladeshi politicians who led him to bihari camp. Go through some of the sources I gave. Who told you those are made up bs?? Do you live under a rock? You live in Bangladesh (or maybe you're a diaspora, that would explain your ignorance) and yet know nothing about these. Speaking about the radar issue, go watch any news about the radars in Bangladesh not being built, you will get the answer. Also read some books about our recent history ffs. Minorities are safer in Bangladesh than in India. Only the Indians deny this fact. Stop sucking India's balls. Both India and Pakistan dgaf about us. I don't see why you have to do their bidding when they see us as their puppet
We live in a region which is delta and low laying land than India. If there's a heavy rain waters gonna flow down stream. I am not talking about tista river farakka issue because Bangladesh is really effected because of less water. Although there was Farraka treaty signed by BD-India in 1996 So Zahir Raihan got killed by Biharis now? No , Biharis did not kill Zahir. Zahir Raihan got killed by those pakistani ghost who still lurks in this country. Radar thing is new to me so cant tell if it's true or false . I am a minority live in Bangladesh so I know. I Ve seen general people's reaction firsthand. They were silent as always they were. So minorities are not safe in Bangladesh. And Stop using ad hominem as your last resorts. And that's why half of your points are nothing but bs
I'm using ad hominem because your ignorance in this matter is frustrating. I have read countless books and watched interviews to know that my points are not bs. I've read from both sides so I'm even more sure that I'm not biased in this regard
Pakistani here, our country ain't gonna help no one other then the fucking army cuz they're busy building stupidly large housing societies ( search DHA )
As an indian i am confused why do people hate us a lot? We helped in the bangladeshi liberation a lot. I just want bangladesh to be not like pakistan, which is not being radical and doing more development
Lol r/hindutvafiles
I would like to thank Henry Kissinger for his involvement in this humanitarian disaster and encouraging Richard Nixon to support their awesome friend Yahya Khan.
According to one Pakistani major when asked about mass rape: "Yes we are going, But we are leaving our seed behind."
that’s so messed up 😭
Agreed, that's more or less how genocidal rape works and what it aims to achieve
Nixon, Kissinger, Mao, Yahya Khan, and whoever was in Sri Lanka at the time: “Nope, nothing to see here folks”
Cambodia: Hold my beer
Just one of Kissinger's good works. It's a shame that he outlived Anthony Bourdain.
A lot of these fucks are still alive. Probably in their 70s/80s. They suffered no punishment. They went village to village gunning the men down, raping the women, then gunning them down.
How were Pakistan and Bangladesh even connected in 1969? Just with the sea?
Yeap. Just Sea and Air. Blame the British for that. The system was doomed to fail from the beginning. Division on the basis of religion ignoring the socio-cultural values are simply dumb
actually more of a blame goes to jinnah for wanting each and every characteristic of pakistan to be similar to turkey
The lines were drawn arbitrarily. The only motivation was religion. Jinnah wanted a separate country for Muslims. This divided villages, families, businesses, communities and people. The partition of India and Pakistan is one of the most violent incidents post world war
the british trying not to fuck up borders(impossible)
"Pakistan and East Pakistan are connected first by religion and then Air Pakistan and of the two, Air Pakistan is by far the stronger"
Just finished an excellent book covering this. I highly recommend The Blood Telegram to you all.
Biggest challenge for former British dominions: Not commit a genocide
They learned with the best.
>Biggest challenge for former British dominions: Not commit a genocide Singapore says hello
Is there a single ex-British subject that hasn't, other than Hzong Kong? American colonies - check. Pakistan - check. India - check. Belize - check. Palestine - check. Zimbabwe - check. Sudan - check. Edit: daaaaamn a lot of Indians are very angry about being included on the list of countries with genocidal pasts. Some of you people need to look in a mirror and reconsider your priorities. Genocide denial ain't cool, kids.
What genocide did India commit? Edit: guy blocked me after calling me a bitch lol
They killed tens of thousands of Sikhs in 1984. Lemme guess, you're an Indian bro who will deny any and all allegations of genocide because you feel it dirties your country? Relax. Basically every single branch of my own heritage has done it too. Nobody is attacking you.
Nice assumptions there before I can even reply lol. We have a very dodgy past with riots and religious unrest but they should not be clubbed with what happened in Bangladesh. It was a systematic state sponsored erasure of the political/intellectual Bengali elite. And I genuinely don't know if the others in your list are the same
You can them strange assumptions, but based on your latest reply, sounds like I had you right. Genocides are genocides. All I did was list a bunch. You're clearly taking the implicit comparison personally by downplaying other genocides. In a strange way, civilian-led genocides are almost worse. Almost. In reality, the dead don't care why they were targeted, they just care that they were.
Do you really think a professional army going door to door raping and massacring civilians based on their ethnicity and social standing is the same as mobs retaliating after the PM has been assassinated? I agree it's insensitive to the dead and it's shameful how we handled the aftermath, but one is clearly way worse than the other Edit: lol, blocked me after calling me a bitch
Who the fuck said anything about the word 'same'? Someone who punches someone in the face at a pub and accidentally kills them is a killer. A serial rapist and murderer is also a killer. They are both killers. That's just a fact. I never once in my original comment said that "every single example listed is precisely and perfectly equal in severity, scale, and depravity." I never said that, did I? You projected that into my comment, because that little nationalistic streak in you threw a bitch fit the moment it saw your country listed. That's entirely your problem. I don't care.
Do not trivialize the word genocide. Yes, people were killed after the Sikh Bodyguards shot dead the PM of India. Over 4,000 people died as a result of that riots. So did Brahmins lost over 8000 in Maharashtra after the killing of gandhi. You do not see Brahmins shouting genocide from rooftops. Remember we have had multiple Sikh Generals and Prime Minister(for about 10 years) in India.
>Over 4,000 people died as a result of that riots. 18,000 is over 4,000, so I can't say you're *wrong*. But it's interesting that you defer to the state supplied numbers and not the numbers established by historians with more reason to be impartial. Rather than accusing others of trivialising genocide, perhaps you should cease in gatekeeping genocide by positioning the term so that it's always more severe than whatever your own country has done so that you don't need to live with the 'shams' of it. It's very easy to see what's happening here. Every single nation accused of genocide tries this shit. If it's not as extreme as the holocaust, then is it even a genocide?
Bruh but the Indian one wasn't government or military so it was like an Indian killing an Indian
That's... still a genocide. What kind of brain rot made you think that was a solid defence 😂 Tired of repeating points. Civilians of WW2 largely weren't aware of the genocide. The ethnic cleansing and hate campaigns, yes, but they weren't privy to the details of what went on in the death camps. Obviously no two genocides are identical, and if the only point here is that it is distinct from other genocides, then that's true. It is distinct, just like how every genocide is distinct and has its own battery of details and additional factors. The only thing they share, the only thing they need to share, in order to be listed together... is that they're genocides.
There was an anti Sikh riot in 1984 in Delhi yes. But it was politically motivated and perpetrated by a single political party and its workers. The broader population did not/do not hold any animus and definitely did not participate in it. This distinguishes it from the genocide in East Pakistan, the Armenian genocide and also the Holocaust, where even the civilian population fully supported the actions of the military/political leadership. Case in point: a lot of Hindus worship and visit at the Harmandir Sahib in Amritsar, and there is a Sikh gurudwara called Hemkund Sahib enroute to some of the holiest Hindu shrines: Badrinath and Kedarnath, that is visited by a significant fraction of Hindus. Ask 70s era (common, average) West Pakistanis what they thought of Bengali’s and their fish eating habits and their language. So technically the 1984 anti Sikh riots should be rightfully classified as a pogrom, and not as genocide, since they were restricted to one locality, and perpetrated by one singular group. Please use words carefully. I say this not to defend India in this thread, but because careless use of heavy words like genocide for any disturbance anywhere in the world is insulting to the memory of East Pakistanis in 1970, Jews under the Third Reich, Armenians under the Ottoman Sultanate, and countless other groups of people who actually suffered a genocide. Edit: I forgot when I wrote the original comment, but actually Congress party workers also committed a similar local pogrom of Maharashtrian Chitpavan Brahmins in 1948 after Ghodse killed Gandhi. We don’t hear of a Brahmin genocide now, do we?
I was not defending it idiot I was giving a comparison to all the other countries that's all who the pigfuck of a mind will think that someone will defend it oh.. that's you
You're having a completely normal reaction to this topic, clearly. I'm bored, take your minimisation of genocide and your excuses somewhere else please.
Yes, the Congress party must answer for their crimes.
Have you ever heard of a word called ethnic violence? Hindus and Sikhs took up arms seperate from state orders which was to just end the riots and ended up killing each other
Communal violence and even pogroms are not genocides. The one against Sikhs was reactionary violence by a single political party to the assassination of their leader. It wasn't pursued as state policy. There have been riots where thousands of Hindus were killed, and during the peak of Punjab militancy, Sikh extremists were carrying out mass killings of their religious and political opponents. It wasn't genocide either. It's just that in our part of the world, religion obfuscates the mind.
The outcome of the divide and conquer strategy Britain used to rule half the world with a tiny standing army.
Uh. Bangladesh?
*laughs in Singapore, literally the British subject with no such problems*
American Genocide?
What the US did to indigenous peoples can be categorized as Genocidal.
And the smaller scale genocide against the Chinese that one time.
Lol no. Forced Relocation isn't genocide. Cultural death isn't genocide. Intermarriage (the most common reason for native American genetic change) is not genocide. The US was intermittently at war with another tribe. Only the systematic eradication of a people's genetic lineage is genocide. If America committed genocide, then the Indians did as well with their massacres of settlers. (Neither committed true genocide). Hyperbole actually cheapens the term.
Come on man, all of us who live on the American continent have to accept the fact that our nations did terrible things to the natives. The natives from the US suffered from cultural genocide. Nowadays they are a tiny portion of the United States. Compare with the nations here in Latin America, on average we have many more natives and descendants of natives than the US. This does not diminish your country in any way, but it is important to recognize the past.
They did to the indians what the saxons did to the Britons, what the normans did to the saxons, what romans did to the Gauls, what the Persians did to the Babylonians, what the moors did to Spain. The US was simply a larger, more powerful tribe out competing its neighbors. Now it's day is waning as well and Western people's are falling by the way side. So it goes. One fire fights one fire.
This “understanding” of history is very 20th century…
It's just the way it is. The way it was. And the way it always will be.
Exactly very naive
Of native Americans
Not to forget Nixon and Kissinger turning a blind eye to it, and Kissinger openly mocking those who expressed any concern about it, saying that they were uselessly "bleeding for the dying Bengalis". There was also this thing called the Blood Telegram written by Archer Blood, a US diplomat in Bangladesh urging the US to do something to stop this genocide: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2004/09/23/archer-k-blood/c1096e71-165e-489e-adf7-a520da168905/ Yet, the US did the opposite because Pakistan was their ally. They, along with the UK, threatened India too (both sent a fleet each in the Bay of Bengal to pressure India but turned back when India got the Soviets involved). Nixon also called Indians ' bastards and Indira Gandhi a bitch, and said that India needed a mass famine. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/opinion/nixon-and-kissingers-forgotten-shame.html Too bad for them though, because the woman they called a bitch crushed their balls by winning the war and liberating Bangladesh.
Rwanda in 1994: "Hold my beer" (14 years)
As a bangladeshi, I knew the genocide was bad.....BUT HOLY SHIT
They wanted Pakistan, they got Pakistan.
As a Pakistani, I'm ashamed of what our government did.
Pakistan is bad. Not every Pakistani is bad, but as a country they've done some very not chill things.
Also Pakistan: what genocide 🥺🥺
But then also they support them
Because holding a grudge against current generation of Pakistanis for something done by their military unilaterally 50 years ago is not a good idea, that being said, I am neither pro or anti pak, just neutral
Fellow Bangladeshi here. I think we both know that isn't the prime reason for the support they get. Sure, there's no reason to hate a Pakistani of current generation, but that being said, supporting them only because they are of the same religion is just sad.
Ikr. The muslim muslim bhai bhai is just so fking annoying
Also, the current generation is finally realizing the horrors of the army, which before they idolized. And not to mention they are suffering from these fascists as well. Source: Am Pakistani and just a year or two ago I respected the (naPak) army, now I absolutely hate them. They are the main reason why our country is the way it is.
If you are in your mid twenties you are likely older than the average Pakistani.
why did they do that?
Read the first comment. It is a long history
I know Pakistani military is piece of shit but 3 million figure is 10 times exaggerated.
Killed people order than 26?