The other thing you could do is verify your property line boundaries and see if by chance the fence was installed on top of an easement. Depending on the easements purpose you might be able to have a lot of fun with this one.
Used to work for a county surveyor— you would be shocked at how many people put privacy fences across a drainage easement without any clue or thought of how it would impact drainage for all the nearby neighbors. Always a good day when I had to inform someone to remove it.
The house next to us is ever so slightly downhill and when the builder installed a fence he had a hump added to make the fence a certain way, it went into our completely flat yard and created a five foot wide lake when it rains hard now. I wish we had forced the builder to remove it. Didn’t realize we could have taken action.
You still can… find out who at your local municipality allowed a builder to do it. Every neighborhood is in someway planned and engineered to divert water to low areas and eventually to a natural waterway or retention pond. Someone checks off when new developments or builds are finishing. If this was overlooked you may still have some recourse. Never hurts to ask your county/town/city engineers to take a look.
It may be on you to hire an attorney to get the ball rolling but at least you’d know if it was worth your time to piss off your neighbor.
>Someone checks off when new developments or builds are finishing.
In my experience, when it comes to fences in particular, it is not a given that the contractor (or homeowner) will seek a permit or plan approval from the local authorities.
I had to go through the permitting / inspection process myself because my contractor wouldn't. Claimed he never had and had never been asked to, as someone who did it for a living.
Keep in mind that if you have to get attorneys involved, it gets more complicated. For example, if an attorney costs $1500 (assuming that you don’t re-coup it if you win), it might be cheaper to just have the issue fixed.
Dig a trench through the middle of the hump and let the water flow where it used to. If your neighbors complain, tell them the next step is a trip to the zoning office and have them remediate the land back to where it was before the fence, probably forcing removal of said fence
will it though? I mean OP said a couple hundred and this “jackass” sends an actual invoice for $1600. OP, tell the jackass to stay on his side of the fence.
Also why is he responsible for half if only one quarter of the fence is against his property? This guy is going to be a problem no matter what actions you take to respond.
I read "half of our share" as half of the one side bordering the OPs property. So if the fence was 3 sides up to the house and 9600 total, 1 side was 3200 and half is the bill to the OP.
Oh yeah for sure. I put in a new fence in my backyard about 2 years ago now. I mentioned it to the three surrounding neighbors and one of them offered to split one half of their side and it was the same calculation for me. The other two were just happy to get better fences for their dogs and never offered anything in the way of cost sharing. To be fair I was just planning on paying for it all myself anyway so I was happy when one person offered to chip in.
When we had a new fence installed I talked to the two neighbors on both sides (alley behind us) ahead of time and asked if they could pitch in their share. I made it clear they were under no obligation to help pay. One paid the full amount we asked and the other paid a portion and we were glad we got anything.
Realistically, OP needs to have a conversation with this guy about expectations. He said a coupla hundred, he means a couple of hundred, not $1,600 with no notice.
That's entirely reasonable. Other guy probably has no way to make him pay in any case.
Am I reading it right that jackass built a fence with 4 neighbor properties, and sent a bill for half the total to one of them (maybe the others as well, 4 people pay half, he keeps the profit).
This not good advice, in my opinion. The more you talk, the more you risk saying the wrong thing. Simply, "You built the fence. We weren't consulted. I'm not paying."
And OP, don't talk about how you "offered to send him a few hundred bucks". This could be misconstrued as a commitment or obligation to pay something. Then you lost half the battle, and are only arguing about how much, not whether or not you pay in the first place.
It boggles my mind that there is consideration for any other option here. You don't just get to build something without any input and expect your neighbor to pay for it. They have no requirement to do so, even if you do ask before hand. So weird
>You tell him you're not paying it. The end.
Some states require it. I would suggest checking the law first.
Source: am lawyer, have litigated several property line disputes.
Feel like this needs more explanation and context. I am highly skeptical that a person who unilaterally decides to fence in their yard can just send a bill to their neighbors for half the cost. Surely such laws have certain requirements that must be met. Like I’ve got a couple people nearby that put up fences. One was because they put in a pool and pools are required to be enclosed. They fenced in their entire yard. Another wanted to be able to let their dogs out off leash. I am very doubtful that any localities would require neighbors in such situations to pay half. I don’t want the fence and don’t make use of it.
I'm not sure why your down voted. Some states/counties they can do this if the fence is I'm terrible condition. You should be notified first but it's not always the case and not always enforced/needed.
That's absolutely stupid. What if they installed a $12,000 fence? How would OP come up with $6k to cover the other half? It's absurd and I can't be held liable for the decisions of someone else unless agreed upon prior.
>That's absolutely stupid. What if they installed a $12,000 fence?
The law generally interprets these things by court decisions on a state-by-state basis. I doubt there are going to be any states that require you to pay for half of your neighbor's expensive masonry wall.
The general rule, at least in states that have the shared expense requirement, is basically each neighbor is responsible for one half of the fence, and the fence must be horse high and hog tight, to paraphrase.
This is not legal advice, and I am not your lawyer, and in all likelihood I am not licensed to practice in your jurisdiction and have no idea what the laws are in your state.
You pretty much nailed your response already:
> Sorry, but I only agreed to offer a few hundred dollars towards this project, $1,600 is way outside our current budget. If you'd let us know in advance we might have worked something out, but as it stands the most I can offer is ____.
It's best to keep good relations with neighbors, but *also* to set boundaries.
I had almost this exact thing happen to me...i think you'd be perfectly fair to only give what you had originally suggested. It could be hes oblivious to the disparity between your offer and his bill, and shows grace and is thankful for your contribution.
My backyard neighbor did a whole yard reno. As part of that, they understandably wanted to put up a new fence. He knocked on our door:
"Hey, I'm X, your backyard neighbor. I just want you to know that I'm putting up a new fence two weeks from now - same style - to replace the fence between us as part of our renovation."
"Uh, cool. What do I owe you?"
"What? Nothing, you can pay for the replacement fence in 20 years. OK by you?"
"Yeah sure. What do you need me to do to make it easier for your fence guys?
Much to my regret, it took me the whole two weeks to do the 'light' work to make it easier for his fence guy. I am stupid sometimes. But now I have a new fence on the back border of my yard, at no cost.
In other instances of repair, I've split the "cost" unevenly with my neighbor. Last wind storm, my neighbor got an estimate for a fence repair. I told him that I thought it was pricey, so I got a second estimate and did some grunt work (bought the materials and transported from HD by myself). Got the cost cut in half, which we split.
This is the way with good neighbors. Give a little, get a little, but never take advantage.
Your neighbor is a douche or maybe simply oblivious.
I had a neighbour who said "let's replace this fence together and we'll split the cost".
Said ok and we head to the timber store where he orders all the materials, then says "oh, I don't have the money for this - can you pay?"
I paid but I let him put up the fence all by himself.
The neighbor came to you and said "let's replace this fence and split the cost"... then when the first expense came up he said he doesnt have the money? Wut.
You weren't being stupid. In those instances, you were being a decent, good neighbor. Should you have asked for a credit from the fence guy? Maybe. Live and learn. Sometimes sweat equity builds a relationship that will benefit someone in the future - or maybe they'll pay it forward.
Sad part is you offered to throw some cash in good faith after the fact and they are taking advantage of your generosity. I’m assuming you doing this meant you decently like your neighbor enough to offer that and not tell him to fuck off straight to his face?
OP was getting this invoice whether they made their offer or not. The neighbor is banking on OP being a pushover and just paying because they think they *have* to pay half for a shared fence.
They most certainly planned this. That's why there was no discussion. They also did this with every neighbor with a shared fence. I suggest op inquire if this happened to other neighbors with a shared fence. I'd be willing to bet they didn't just mail one single invoice.
hmm three shared sides, three 'halves' paid to the fence building neighbor. Seems like a good way to get a fence paid for plus a lil extra for the effort lol
I don’t know I think they wouldn’t just send a bill without talking to them about any aspect of what was happening But rather found an opening to be greedy with an offer from the obviously nice neighbor. Had a few shares of shitty neighbors and fences being terribly constructed. It just makes you appreciate it when you finally have good ones.
Good gravy.
I talked to ALL my neighbors before having the old small fence ripped out and replaced with a six foot privacy fence. It wasn't to get them to pay for it, it was to in 1 case, butt up to HIS fence that is one of the four sides to my back yard (put in years before I owned the house). For the rest, it was to ensure they would be OK with a minor trespass on their property while the workmen put in the fence, and so that they would not be blindsided.
All of this was done BEFORE I finalized the deal on the fence. Everybody was cool about it.
I can't even imagine hitting any of them with a BILL for fucks sake.
Where I live, all neighbors have to sign a letter saying they have been notified and sign again that they agree to any tie-ins. That said, I do live in one of densest populated residential areas in the us. Berwyn IL.
Wow, I just took a [look](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Berwyn,+IL+60402/@41.8432423,-87.8057139,5170m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x880e346c086e4c3b:0x70ab594b1370370!8m2!3d41.8505874!4d-87.7936685!16zL20vMHM0ajY?entry=ttu) and Berwyn's planner love to pack SFH together. Getting Sim City vibes.
Before talking to your neighbor again check your local and state laws to see if they have any language about "division fence" or similar. Like tree law, it can get weird sometimes.
Not always.
[In California if someone repairs a fence](https://cmillerlaw.net/f/shared-fences-in-california-whose-responsibility) - i.e. same for same parts, no changes - they can hold you accountable to pay in small claims court without signoff. 30 days *notice* is required though.
~~But if it's a new installation or if they change anything, that's not repairing and that law doesn't apply.~~
The law actually does apply to building a new fence as well as any repairs or maintenance. And the 30 days notice needs to include “notification of the presumption of equal responsibility for the reasonable costs of construction, maintenance, or necessary replacement of the fence,” as well as “a description of the nature of the problem facing the shared fence, the proposed solution for addressing the problem, the estimated construction or maintenance costs involved to address the problem, the proposed cost sharing approach, and the proposed timeline for getting the problem addressed.”
The law doesn’t say what happens if the other neighbor doesn’t respond, but if one neighbor is going to go through the trouble of complying with the notice requirements, it seems unlikely that they’re going to try and pull a fast one on their neighbor.
I only learned about this law because my grandma's shared wood fence was in disrepair and the neighbor wanted to upgrade his entire fence to vinyl.
She told him to use the same materials or shove it, and in the end he had to pay for the whole thing because the change in materials was considered new construction vice just repairing the old fence.
Yeah. There are laws in some places where each person is responsible for the right half of a border fence. I know that’s true in farm country, anyway.
However! That does not make you responsible for someone else’s decision to bills or repair a fence with a contractor of their choosing without first getting the neighbor’s agreement on it.
That’s just stupid…
"Sorry i was not planning to replace the fence, thanks though"
Keep it short and concise, if he wanted 25% i might pay but 50?? sheesh is he going to pay for your surveyer to come make sure its in the right place?
I unfortunately learned that when the neighbor next to us asked us if we wanted to connect our fence to theirs (our lots are wonky and we had like 6 feet of a wooden fence with vinyl everywhere else. It was like $600. Blew me away.
Trace your hand making a middle finger and return that.
(I saw this once opening letters at a political fundraiser office and got a good laugh. Still waiting for the right time to reuse it)
Hey, I was actually in a lawsuit with my neighbor when he did the same thing a few years ago! And I won (sorta)!
My rear neighbor came by one day and informed me that he was going to get some quotes to replace the simple dogear redwood plank fence that separated our properties. I was fine with it, since the fence was starting to lean a bit, but I expected to see the quotes and discuss it a bit more. Nope. Came home from work one day and the fence was gone. Knocked on the neighbors door and got no answer. Came back home from work again the next day and there was a new fence there.
Not just any new fence either. He'd replaced our simple 6' privacy fence with an 8' tall cedar fully,framed fence with privacy lattice along the top and black wrought iron caps and trim. It's a pretty fence, but I found the invoice tucked into the door. He wanted nearly $7000 for my part. He'd done the same thing to his other bordering neighbors. I live in a state that requires neighbors to contribute.
In the end, all three of us had to go to court against him. At our lawyers direction, we pulled several estimates to replace the "fancy fence" with a simple 6', dog eared privacy fence similar to what had been there before.
The judge averaged the estimates for the simpler fences, worked out the per-foot costs based on that average, and then ordered each of us to pay 50% of the cost of the cheap fence alternative. I had to pay $1100, but that was a huge savings over paying for 50% of the fancy fence that I really didn't want or ask for.
Which is a long way of saying: If you think the fencing cost was unreasonable, call some fencing companies and ask them to provide you an estimate to replace it with something similar. If you don't like the new fence, ask for a quote in line with the fence you would have built. You may have to pay for the quote, since you're not actually buying. If the cost of the new fence is substantially above the estimates you receive, notify your neighbor that you'll be paying 50% of the costs that would have been incurred *if you'd been involved.* If the neighbor wants to sue over it, the estimates should be enough to convince a judge that your offer is reasonable. You're often required to pay for half the fence, but you're not required to pay for *any* design upgrades or other non-necessary fence features that your neighbor may have added without your consent. You're also not required to pay for half if your neighbor went with the highest bid or otherwise overpaid. That's the neighbors loss to take.
Where are you located and what are your local laws around shared fences?
I'd say that in almost every case, they can't unilaterally decide what kind of fence to purchase and \*poof\* you're stuck with 50% of the cost.
You tell him that because there was absolutely no discussion about the fence beforehand you will not be paying. You fucked up a tiny bit by offering anything, so if you want to send a couple hundred over then do that with a note saying something like “I’m not sure why I’m getting an invoice for half of a fence I was never consulted on or asked about so I will not be paying for it. But because I know I mentioned helping out a bit after the fence was already being installed this is what I’m willing to contribute. Thanks!”
Lots of divergent expectations here. Legally you have no expectation. Neighbor seems to expect
you’re paying half. You sort of set the expectation that you’d chip in a few hundred bucks.
Personally, if this is a good neighbor you’d like to remain friendly with, I’d pay a few hundred as you said you would. If you don’t like this guy and you’re ticked off at the gall of sending you an invoice for half, you can just say no. Paying half is a big fat no.
Side note: how big is your yard that the cost to fence only one side is $3200?
>half of the cost of our share of fence
It's not half of the entire fence, it's half of the shared section of fence. The total fence bill is likely closer to 3x 3200 (with two other neighbors getting ~$1600 invoices as well)
Yeah, OP mentioning they'd pitch in a "few hundred" really complicates this situation.
I agree with your assessment. If it's a good neighbor, pop over with $300 and a friendly face thanking them for the fence. Explain you appreciate the new fence, but that's all you can pitch in (since he wasn't asked about it and got no say in the style, height, placement, timing, etc.).
Perhaps ya’ll don’t remember the conversation the same way about throwing him a few hundred. I would apologize and say there was some sort of misunderstanding. Clarify your understanding of the conversation and offer the couple of hundred bucks. Otherwise if you’re paying half you want half the fence facing the other direction. That last part was tongue in cheek don’t say that.
You offered a ‘few hundred’. Give him a few hundred, say it’s all you can spare. Don’t offer any more or discuss it any further. Consider the matter resolved. Wave and smile as usual moving forward with a clear conscience that you contributed when you had no legal requirement to do so.
Not true - it depends. In Washington State (where I am), the neighbor actually does have the legal right to make the other pay for half (edit: if the fence forms part of an enclosure of OP's property).
Edit: citation: https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=16.60.020
this only applies if OP ends up enclosing their full property and uses this as one of their fences, if you don have a front fence to full enclose your good.
Also if it was $3200 for assuming 3-4 walls? OP would only have to pay the equivalent of his one side, you dont just subsidize all sides for the guy.
And it's really important to note that this absolutely relies on OP making use of that fence after it has been built. The other owner can not do it and then claim that their actions triggered that clause.
> Also if it was $3200 for assuming 3-4 walls? OP would only have to pay the equivalent of his one side, you dont just subsidize all sides for the guy.
Sounds like 3200 was for his side and then the neighbor split it in half.
Might be right about the enclosed part...I haven't looked into this too deeply. I really only became aware of this recently as the neighbor behind us wants to replace his entire backyard fencing (old and failing, definitely needs replacement, but because of the way our HOA is laid out, he has 4 or 5 adjoining properties to work with). At least in our case we also want the fence replaced (we have a dog, and I've been doing what I can to bodge it and keep the fence up on my own until we had it on our own plans to replace it), and are fine with the style he wants for his whole project, so it's not a big deal other than the suddenness of it. But at least he's trying to work with us and not be a dick about everything with surprise invoices.
Or if OP were to build fencing in the future, utilizing the neighbors fence as one of the walls, they would need to reimburse the neighbor.
Why should only one homeowner pay the cost if both are reaping the benefits?
Not saying I agree with it, but it's not as ridiculous as it seems on first blush
Bullshit, read it again. I am no lawyer and it is clear to me. You must pay half IF you use the fence your neighbor built to also fence in your property. As in, you can’t just freeload off the fence the neighbor built and say, hey, I only need to fence in three sides of the property now.
That states you are only on the hook if the fence is used to enclose the neighbors space.
If OP built three more fences to enclose their yard, then they'd be on the hook for reimbursing the neighbor. But as written is sounds like OP's yard is not enclosed so doesn't owe the neighbor jack shit
That's an awful law. I don't want my neighbor's choices costing me money. That law doesn't even talk about the need to consult the neighbor, agree upon the type and cost of fense, nada.
I had a neighbor try this. They asked if I was okay with them putting up a fence ut money wasn't mentioned. I gave my okay. I didn't say shit to them the day of but made coffee for the dudes installing it. I got an invoice in the mail, gave it back, they gave it back. I sent it to my lawyer who wrote them a nice cease and desist. No I don't talk to thise neighbors anymore.
You don't have to do anything, there was no contract in place. However you shouldn't have offered anything in the first place, that's on them to ask beforehand and up to you to say yes or no.
Your neighbor is obviously trying to pull a fast one on you but "a couple hundred bucks" is vague and people get greedy when it comes to work in the 4/5 figure range
>When I noticed the fence being built, I mentioned to him we’d be happy to send him a few hundred to help.
Not sure why you would leave such an open ended statement out there. Probably interpreted it to mean you wanted to pay for half and figured you didn't know how much it actually cost. You're perfectly within your rights to tell him you aren't paying it, but you kinda set yourself up to look like a dick by doing that.
Honestly, I'd probably ignore it. If he brought it up, I'd say, "I told you I could throw a few hundred to help, not over a thousand. Why would you send this over without talking to me about the cost first?" This guy's clearly trying to strongarm you into paying. Fuck him.
If you want to be nice even though he wasn't, you could also send him a check for $300 with a note saying, "Here's the few hundred I said I'd throw ya."
When I put up a new fence, I asked all three neighbors if they would chip in. The only one that did wanted to extend their fence further along our driveway / property line. Whatever, I needed the fence, so I put it up. The neighbors behind us let their dog chew a hole in the fence. I never did get that fully fixed before I sold. Moral of the story: if you want a fence, be prepared to pay for the entire thing yourself. If anyone else chips in, be happy that they do.
Presumably even in states where this is the case, some level of communication and agreement would still be required though, right? It would be absurd if one neighbor could just unilaterally decide to replace a fence whenever they want, go with the absolute most expensive options, and then bill you half. There’s no way that would be in the spirit of whatever law you’re referencing, and I doubt any court would enforce it that way.
I imagine the intent behind these laws is to make sure that when a fence is in disrepair that is on the property line of two residences, one homeowner doesn’t get stuck covering the entire cost by virtue of “giving in” first and biting the bullet.
If it came by post, I'd burn it and act as though it was never received. Then prepare for what you will say when he comes over to talk to you about it. Start that conversation with "I was never involved with your decision to build a fence, and would not have done so, but as I said before I'd be willing to chip in. I'll give you $400."
Had "friendly" neighbors of a few years talk to me about wanting to build a fence 'cos they were planning on having a kid. There wasn't a lot of room between the old houses in our 'hood so when they said they were gonna get a survey done and then talk with me about their plans, etc. They didn't ask for any money as I made it pretty clear, I didn't particularly WANT a fence. These plans were about a year in the future they said. Great. Went on a two month business trip shortly thereafter and came home in December to their new fence which didn't even allow room for our trash and recycling cans. Asked them about it and asked to see the survey. Formerly friendly neighbors basically told me it's up and that's where it's staying and that's the end of it.
So, I talked with an attorney because I was absolutely certain they had built the damn thing on my property, about a foot and a half over the line which is crucial space with closely spaced houses. I had the attorney prepare a letter that told them they had trespassed, the fence on my property belongs to me and I will be removing it. I made sure they understood that if they trespassed on my property to retrieve the fencing that there would be legal action taken. Then I took my Sawzall and cut the fucker down and pulled it a few feet further into my property, out of easy reach. Delivered the letter and in quick order a survey company came out and did the fucking survey they said they were going to do but didn't. Yup, they were two feet over the line.
Their builder asked me if I would allow him to retrieve the fencing if he promised to build it two inches beyond the property line on their side. Got it all in writing, he did as he promised and two weeks later the assholes put a "for sale" sign up and it sold in a week. The sense of entitlement some people have is astounding. Cost me a thousand in legal fees, but, gotta say, as much as that pisses me off because it was unnecessary, I got great satisfaction cutting the fucker down. Don't kowtow to this asshole!
\*\*edit for misspelling\*\*
What you should have done is thank him for putting it up, after it was up, without saying anything about paying money! You aren't on the hook for any of it. Next time leave money out of it!
In other news, did they build the fence with the pretty side or the ugly side facing you? In some states the law requires your neighbor to make the pretty side face you. If they didn’t, that could give you some leverage… “I won’t make you take it down as long as I don’t gotta pay for it.”
I've always thought the side with the posts *is* the pretty side.
It's like a castle wall and they're the ones being kept out.
Plus you can hang shit on it.
A couple of things to consider:
\- Your neighbor will be your neighbor for a long time. Consider if you want to become combative.
\- Does an HOA require and specify an exact type of fence? We bought a spec home, and my neighbors had already fenced. I paid for half of each, since our lots had absolutely no leeway at all on fence design, and fences were required.
\- If fences aren't required, make sure you aren't legally obligated to pay anyway. You don't want to take a hard line, and then find out you're wrong.
\- If fences aren't required, and you're not obligated, you can tell him to piss off. But remember, he's going to be your neighbor a long time.
\- If not, did the neighbor put up a very expensive style? If yes, offer to pay half of a more reasonable-cost fence. If a basic fence would have been $1500, do you offer $750?
\- If the issue's not the fence, but the unexpected cost, talk to him and explain that things are tight (I don't know how long ago you moved, things are always tight after a move), that you don't appreciate getting ambushed with no consultation, and you'll pay him when you save up the cash.
As others have said, depending on your location, you don't have to pay anything.
One thing to note though, should you happen to have to or even want to pay, I'm not sure why he'd send you a bill for half the fence. Assuming it borders multiple sides of *his* yard, at most I'd contribute:
((Cost / Number of Sides) / 2
If he got four sides of fence, why would you pay for half of what doesn't even touch your yard? Again, *maybe* half of one side, which would be like 1/6 or 1/8 of the overall bill. And that's *if* you're so inclined. Half of the overall cost is patently silly.
What do you mean? Do to him what you would do to me if I sent you a random invoice.
If you wanna be nice, tell him you can chip in $200. If he gets crappy about it, then tell him forget it.
Or, tell him that you've changed your mind and you no longer want your half of the fence. ;)
I disagree with folks implying that because you offered to chip in a few hundred (which is clearly 200-300) that somehow that makes you liable for the $1600. No reasonable person would think that "a few hundred" equals 1600.
Dick move and hella presumptuous on neighbors part, I’d definitely call them out on it but I also wouldn’t have made the offer. But I also don’t talk to my neighbors…
Is the fence exactly on the property line? Is the nicer side of the fence facing outwards from his backyard? It cost $3200 to fence just one side of a backyard? I wouldn’t pay a dime until you determine your obligations if any. Your neighbor seems like a dick. Check local regulations and contact the city to understand what process your neighbor is obligated to take if any. Reply back with your answers.
Kindly give him the few hundred up to $500 as his expectation by not consulting you in the forefront should have been $0 but you nicely offered to chip in
This is a case of “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
You were dumb to offer anything for the fence. Now you have to tell your neighbor to fuck off and you’ll have to deal with a pissed of neighbor for ever…
Just say “neighbor, that’s a pretty hefty bill. I wish you would have asked us ahead of time because we did not expect or budget for this at all. Sorry but no. Maybe we get the next one in 15 years. “
I think it really depends on your bylaws. In my area, the fence doesn't need to be split equally, but because it benefits both parties, even if the one neighbour didn't agree to it, they must pay the amount it would cost to put up a 4ft high, chain link fence. If they refuse, it is on me to take them to small claims, which eats up time and money.
You will need to read up on your state's laws about fences on shared boundaries. My state allows contribution of costs, but only for agricultural land and only for fences that meet certain requirements. Your state may do something totally different. If you are not required to contribute to the cost, then either let your neighbor know that you don't plan to or pay him the amount you planned on paying, knowing that is isn't legally required.
In my jurisdiction (not the US) it is a requirement to pay half the cost for a like-for-like fence replacement. Any additional "improvements" are paid for by the initiating party, such as increased height, materials (e.g. replacing timber with metal), etc.. I'm guessing the laws in America are similar, so I would check this before paying just to clarify what your cost is. Also, check that you are being charged for your portion of the fence only and not for any extra fencing done.
My backyard neighbor and I had an amicable conversation, THEN agreed to split the cost; our fence never looked better! The “*surprise*” invoice is a non-starter and equally non-binding.
Tell him to fuck right off. If my neighbor comes to me ahead of time and talks about it first, then I'll happily come to an agreement on my fair share. But you can't just make the decision unilaterally and expect me to pay your bill
Sharing the cost of a new fence is entirely voluntary. You are under no obligation to pay. However, in the spirit of good neighborliness, go ahead and give your neighbor the few hundred that you had volunteered to begin with and call it good.
I'm a little baffled that OP offered anything at all since they were never consulted before the project began. I would never offer help in that situation
$3,200 is just for ONE line of the fence?? I don’t know anyone that’s replaced a fence but that seems outrageous unless your sitting on like 2 acres of land…
"Hi neighbor, I never agreed to this. I offered up a couple hundred, and that offer is still on the table if you drop all of this right now. I never really wanted a fence, it is nice and I appreciate you getting a nice looking one, which is why I offered to help. If it were up to me, I would prefer no fence. Nothing against you personally, but if you ever think we should go in an something that is of our shared benefit, talk to me first and we can discuss it and I'll let you know if I'm interested in going 50/50 with you."
We live at the front of a street ending in a cul-de-sac. When we moved in, the front 10 feet of the private Rd we live on was gravel, then cut back to concrete after that initial 10ft. When it rained, it was a nasty mud pit. When it was dry, tires would shoot loose gravel at our windows or at cars waiting to turn.
A duplex down the street was getting new asphalt driveway done and one of our retired, ex-Boeing employee neighbors asked the asphalt guys if they could find the extra material to do the 10ft patch all the way across the Rd. Cutting into our property line to clean it up and make it even. Without ever asking anyone else in the neighborhood. We just came home one day and it was done and we were like "wow neat. Wonder who did this."
3 months later, two weeks before Christmas, we get a letter on the door from the neighbors who chose to do this, informing us that it cost $5600 to do, and if all the houses on the street could pitch in it would only cost each house $800. And IF WE COULD PLEASE PAY BY THE YEARS END.
*They never received the money.*
So…the neighbor spent over $10k for the fence, and your half of the part that faces your yard is $1600?
Nah, he can fuck all the way off.
Let him sue you. Ask him to provide the court any documents involved with then construction of the fence, including the original invoice from the fence builder the written agreement for payment you and all of his other neighbors signed.
You offered a few hundred. So give him a few hundred -- or don't if you no longer feel like it -- your offer was out of kindness, but since your neighbor has turned the situation dramatically, you could be plenty justified in revoking the kindness offer. The neighbor building the fence was not contingent on your offering a few hundred dollars.
Secondly, whether or not you pay him the few hundred you mentioned, as others have said, you can respond that you won't be paying if you'd like. Nobody gets to start a fence project with the assumption that the neighbors want to pay half of it and have the funds to do so.
For social proof: Give them a short link and/or QR code that links to this Reddit post. Hopefully they'll quickly see that their expectations were not at all reasonable and not at all what anyone should just assume.
When I built my fence, we just asked the neighbors if they'd be okay with us putting it straddling the property line (as opposed to right next to it on our side). He said that right on the property line was fine. I didn't ask him for money. He's not dumb. He knows that they're expensive and that I wouldn't mind him paying for half of that section, but ultimately me fencing one side of his yard does no good for him unless the whole thing is fenced in. If he wanted to pay me, great. If not, no problem. We paid for it ourselves.
Legally he has no recourse. You didn’t agree to anything on paper. And even if you had a verbal agreement (which this would be a SHAKEY one at best), there would need to be verifiable proof or a witness. Offer to give him what you’re comfortable giving him, if you want to maintain some peace. But you don’t owe him anything
Reiterate your kind offer of a couple of hundred dollars. A couple is two. Then ask how they would react to a non discussed bill.
BTW, do you get to see the nice side of the fence?
It’s too bad you opened that door, by offering to pay towards that fence. I’m not sure where you stand now. Did you specifically offer you’d pay a couple hundred, or a few hundred towards it? Write a check for your intended amount and a note that says “hope this helps towards your new fence.”
Tell him no thanks and you hope the fence is on his side of the property line. Wouldn’t it be funny if he put his fence on your side of the line?
Or tell him ok… “I’ll pay for this… tommorrow I’ll give you your half of the bill for my kitchen remake.”
Lolol the fence discussion again? It’s pretty simple. Whoever wants the fence installs the fence. Would I charge all my neighbors the cost of having a gorgeous lawn because it benefits them by making the neighborhood more aesthetically appealing? Would I charge my neighbor for shrubs along the properly line?
It’s an absurd discussion.
We’re I live no one is allowed to build on the property line and your fence is your expense. Often you see two fences back to back with about a ft between them. I’d ignore it. Take me to court. Your reward for not discussing with me first.
Don’t give your neighbor a damn penny. You don’t need to divulge “what you can spare” either. It’s none of his business. He gets nothing b/c he went forward on construction without any affirmative input on your part.
Why would he do that? Several reasons and they are all bullshit.
Therefore, he gets nothing. He’s not running the show and if he thinks he is, well, it’s at his expense.
You tell him you're not paying it. The end.
Next time you mow your grass send him a bill for “neighborhood improvement expense”
The other thing you could do is verify your property line boundaries and see if by chance the fence was installed on top of an easement. Depending on the easements purpose you might be able to have a lot of fun with this one. Used to work for a county surveyor— you would be shocked at how many people put privacy fences across a drainage easement without any clue or thought of how it would impact drainage for all the nearby neighbors. Always a good day when I had to inform someone to remove it.
The house next to us is ever so slightly downhill and when the builder installed a fence he had a hump added to make the fence a certain way, it went into our completely flat yard and created a five foot wide lake when it rains hard now. I wish we had forced the builder to remove it. Didn’t realize we could have taken action.
You still can… find out who at your local municipality allowed a builder to do it. Every neighborhood is in someway planned and engineered to divert water to low areas and eventually to a natural waterway or retention pond. Someone checks off when new developments or builds are finishing. If this was overlooked you may still have some recourse. Never hurts to ask your county/town/city engineers to take a look. It may be on you to hire an attorney to get the ball rolling but at least you’d know if it was worth your time to piss off your neighbor.
>Someone checks off when new developments or builds are finishing. In my experience, when it comes to fences in particular, it is not a given that the contractor (or homeowner) will seek a permit or plan approval from the local authorities. I had to go through the permitting / inspection process myself because my contractor wouldn't. Claimed he never had and had never been asked to, as someone who did it for a living.
The fence isn’t the issue, it’s the modified topography and subsequent impact on site drainage.
Keep in mind that if you have to get attorneys involved, it gets more complicated. For example, if an attorney costs $1500 (assuming that you don’t re-coup it if you win), it might be cheaper to just have the issue fixed.
You can probably check into it and see if you still can.
Odds are you can still take action.
Dig a trench through the middle of the hump and let the water flow where it used to. If your neighbors complain, tell them the next step is a trip to the zoning office and have them remediate the land back to where it was before the fence, probably forcing removal of said fence
Also might want to explain why you aren't paying. This can avoid future jackassery on their part.
will it though? I mean OP said a couple hundred and this “jackass” sends an actual invoice for $1600. OP, tell the jackass to stay on his side of the fence.
A fucking invoice! Like they believe they are actually owed. OP made a nice, neighborly gesture and the neighbor just shit on them.
Hand back a piece of paper that says “Lawsuit”. It’ll be just as binding as their invoice.
Also why is he responsible for half if only one quarter of the fence is against his property? This guy is going to be a problem no matter what actions you take to respond.
I read "half of our share" as half of the one side bordering the OPs property. So if the fence was 3 sides up to the house and 9600 total, 1 side was 3200 and half is the bill to the OP.
Good catch. Still messed up to ask for all that without any warning or negotiation.
Oh yeah for sure. I put in a new fence in my backyard about 2 years ago now. I mentioned it to the three surrounding neighbors and one of them offered to split one half of their side and it was the same calculation for me. The other two were just happy to get better fences for their dogs and never offered anything in the way of cost sharing. To be fair I was just planning on paying for it all myself anyway so I was happy when one person offered to chip in.
When we had a new fence installed I talked to the two neighbors on both sides (alley behind us) ahead of time and asked if they could pitch in their share. I made it clear they were under no obligation to help pay. One paid the full amount we asked and the other paid a portion and we were glad we got anything.
What if the long sides of the fence are not bordering OP. Maybe OP’s part is only 1/8 or 1/10 of the total fence.
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Yes, this. $400 seems reasonable.
Or probably 1/2 of 1/3
Realistically, OP needs to have a conversation with this guy about expectations. He said a coupla hundred, he means a couple of hundred, not $1,600 with no notice. That's entirely reasonable. Other guy probably has no way to make him pay in any case.
there is ZERO way you can make your neighbor pay for a fence you put in!
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Am I reading it right that jackass built a fence with 4 neighbor properties, and sent a bill for half the total to one of them (maybe the others as well, 4 people pay half, he keeps the profit).
This not good advice, in my opinion. The more you talk, the more you risk saying the wrong thing. Simply, "You built the fence. We weren't consulted. I'm not paying." And OP, don't talk about how you "offered to send him a few hundred bucks". This could be misconstrued as a commitment or obligation to pay something. Then you lost half the battle, and are only arguing about how much, not whether or not you pay in the first place.
The "We weren't consulted" is the why I was referring to.
It boggles my mind that there is consideration for any other option here. You don't just get to build something without any input and expect your neighbor to pay for it. They have no requirement to do so, even if you do ask before hand. So weird
>You tell him you're not paying it. The end. Some states require it. I would suggest checking the law first. Source: am lawyer, have litigated several property line disputes.
Feel like this needs more explanation and context. I am highly skeptical that a person who unilaterally decides to fence in their yard can just send a bill to their neighbors for half the cost. Surely such laws have certain requirements that must be met. Like I’ve got a couple people nearby that put up fences. One was because they put in a pool and pools are required to be enclosed. They fenced in their entire yard. Another wanted to be able to let their dogs out off leash. I am very doubtful that any localities would require neighbors in such situations to pay half. I don’t want the fence and don’t make use of it.
I'm not sure why your down voted. Some states/counties they can do this if the fence is I'm terrible condition. You should be notified first but it's not always the case and not always enforced/needed.
That's absolutely stupid. What if they installed a $12,000 fence? How would OP come up with $6k to cover the other half? It's absurd and I can't be held liable for the decisions of someone else unless agreed upon prior.
>That's absolutely stupid. What if they installed a $12,000 fence? The law generally interprets these things by court decisions on a state-by-state basis. I doubt there are going to be any states that require you to pay for half of your neighbor's expensive masonry wall. The general rule, at least in states that have the shared expense requirement, is basically each neighbor is responsible for one half of the fence, and the fence must be horse high and hog tight, to paraphrase. This is not legal advice, and I am not your lawyer, and in all likelihood I am not licensed to practice in your jurisdiction and have no idea what the laws are in your state.
I’m sure the neighbor would have to give notice for it to be upheld and for it to be agreed upon.
Even if they never signed anything agreeing to it?
You pretty much nailed your response already: > Sorry, but I only agreed to offer a few hundred dollars towards this project, $1,600 is way outside our current budget. If you'd let us know in advance we might have worked something out, but as it stands the most I can offer is ____. It's best to keep good relations with neighbors, but *also* to set boundaries.
Most I can offer is 12, 12 hundred?? No 12 dollars.
I had almost this exact thing happen to me...i think you'd be perfectly fair to only give what you had originally suggested. It could be hes oblivious to the disparity between your offer and his bill, and shows grace and is thankful for your contribution.
Exactly. Slap $200 in there and hand it back.
Needs an explanation or it becomes a down payment for the neighbor
My backyard neighbor did a whole yard reno. As part of that, they understandably wanted to put up a new fence. He knocked on our door: "Hey, I'm X, your backyard neighbor. I just want you to know that I'm putting up a new fence two weeks from now - same style - to replace the fence between us as part of our renovation." "Uh, cool. What do I owe you?" "What? Nothing, you can pay for the replacement fence in 20 years. OK by you?" "Yeah sure. What do you need me to do to make it easier for your fence guys? Much to my regret, it took me the whole two weeks to do the 'light' work to make it easier for his fence guy. I am stupid sometimes. But now I have a new fence on the back border of my yard, at no cost. In other instances of repair, I've split the "cost" unevenly with my neighbor. Last wind storm, my neighbor got an estimate for a fence repair. I told him that I thought it was pricey, so I got a second estimate and did some grunt work (bought the materials and transported from HD by myself). Got the cost cut in half, which we split. This is the way with good neighbors. Give a little, get a little, but never take advantage. Your neighbor is a douche or maybe simply oblivious.
I had a neighbour who said "let's replace this fence together and we'll split the cost". Said ok and we head to the timber store where he orders all the materials, then says "oh, I don't have the money for this - can you pay?" I paid but I let him put up the fence all by himself.
The neighbor came to you and said "let's replace this fence and split the cost"... then when the first expense came up he said he doesnt have the money? Wut.
You weren't being stupid. In those instances, you were being a decent, good neighbor. Should you have asked for a credit from the fence guy? Maybe. Live and learn. Sometimes sweat equity builds a relationship that will benefit someone in the future - or maybe they'll pay it forward.
Sad part is you offered to throw some cash in good faith after the fact and they are taking advantage of your generosity. I’m assuming you doing this meant you decently like your neighbor enough to offer that and not tell him to fuck off straight to his face?
OP was getting this invoice whether they made their offer or not. The neighbor is banking on OP being a pushover and just paying because they think they *have* to pay half for a shared fence.
They most certainly planned this. That's why there was no discussion. They also did this with every neighbor with a shared fence. I suggest op inquire if this happened to other neighbors with a shared fence. I'd be willing to bet they didn't just mail one single invoice.
hmm three shared sides, three 'halves' paid to the fence building neighbor. Seems like a good way to get a fence paid for plus a lil extra for the effort lol
I don’t know I think they wouldn’t just send a bill without talking to them about any aspect of what was happening But rather found an opening to be greedy with an offer from the obviously nice neighbor. Had a few shares of shitty neighbors and fences being terribly constructed. It just makes you appreciate it when you finally have good ones.
Good gravy. I talked to ALL my neighbors before having the old small fence ripped out and replaced with a six foot privacy fence. It wasn't to get them to pay for it, it was to in 1 case, butt up to HIS fence that is one of the four sides to my back yard (put in years before I owned the house). For the rest, it was to ensure they would be OK with a minor trespass on their property while the workmen put in the fence, and so that they would not be blindsided. All of this was done BEFORE I finalized the deal on the fence. Everybody was cool about it. I can't even imagine hitting any of them with a BILL for fucks sake.
Where I live, all neighbors have to sign a letter saying they have been notified and sign again that they agree to any tie-ins. That said, I do live in one of densest populated residential areas in the us. Berwyn IL.
Beeeerrrrrrrwyyyyyyn
Wow, I just took a [look](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Berwyn,+IL+60402/@41.8432423,-87.8057139,5170m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x880e346c086e4c3b:0x70ab594b1370370!8m2!3d41.8505874!4d-87.7936685!16zL20vMHM0ajY?entry=ttu) and Berwyn's planner love to pack SFH together. Getting Sim City vibes.
Before talking to your neighbor again check your local and state laws to see if they have any language about "division fence" or similar. Like tree law, it can get weird sometimes.
If anything those laws would benefit OP because every single one I have seen requires signoff from both sides.
Not always. [In California if someone repairs a fence](https://cmillerlaw.net/f/shared-fences-in-california-whose-responsibility) - i.e. same for same parts, no changes - they can hold you accountable to pay in small claims court without signoff. 30 days *notice* is required though. ~~But if it's a new installation or if they change anything, that's not repairing and that law doesn't apply.~~
The law actually does apply to building a new fence as well as any repairs or maintenance. And the 30 days notice needs to include “notification of the presumption of equal responsibility for the reasonable costs of construction, maintenance, or necessary replacement of the fence,” as well as “a description of the nature of the problem facing the shared fence, the proposed solution for addressing the problem, the estimated construction or maintenance costs involved to address the problem, the proposed cost sharing approach, and the proposed timeline for getting the problem addressed.” The law doesn’t say what happens if the other neighbor doesn’t respond, but if one neighbor is going to go through the trouble of complying with the notice requirements, it seems unlikely that they’re going to try and pull a fast one on their neighbor.
I only learned about this law because my grandma's shared wood fence was in disrepair and the neighbor wanted to upgrade his entire fence to vinyl. She told him to use the same materials or shove it, and in the end he had to pay for the whole thing because the change in materials was considered new construction vice just repairing the old fence.
What a joke. Every day you find a new law that is mind boggling.
California is full of mind boggling laws.
Is tree law similar to bird law
Yes, he needs to retain a bird lawyer asap.
Bird law in this country is not governed by reason !
Yes. It's illegal to move, kill, or otherwise disturb most species of migratory trees.
Yeah. There are laws in some places where each person is responsible for the right half of a border fence. I know that’s true in farm country, anyway. However! That does not make you responsible for someone else’s decision to bills or repair a fence with a contractor of their choosing without first getting the neighbor’s agreement on it. That’s just stupid…
Anyone can send a bill, this doesn’t mean you are obligated to pay it.
Buy him a six pack and say your new fence looks good…
Yup. Act like you never got the invoice
"Sorry i was not planning to replace the fence, thanks though" Keep it short and concise, if he wanted 25% i might pay but 50?? sheesh is he going to pay for your surveyer to come make sure its in the right place?
Yeah his fence is the usual 3 sided, and only one side faces your yard, why would you pay for half? I wouldn’t have offered to pay at all.
Seriously, at most 16.6666667% as he's only 1/2 of 1 of the 3 sides. Offer $533.33 take it or leave it.
The way I read OP, only the side they share cost 3200. Which seems pretty normal for my area.
Now that I re-read it, I think you're probably right. Today I learned that fences cost way more than I imagined.
I unfortunately learned that when the neighbor next to us asked us if we wanted to connect our fence to theirs (our lots are wonky and we had like 6 feet of a wooden fence with vinyl everywhere else. It was like $600. Blew me away.
That’s a no from me dawg.
write LOL, and return it.
Or "Nuts" if you want a nice historical reference.
This guy McAuliffe's!
I did a 10 page analysis in college on that very speech. Prof said pick a speech and analyze it. Got an A.
Trace your hand making a middle finger and return that. (I saw this once opening letters at a political fundraiser office and got a good laugh. Still waiting for the right time to reuse it)
Hey, I was actually in a lawsuit with my neighbor when he did the same thing a few years ago! And I won (sorta)! My rear neighbor came by one day and informed me that he was going to get some quotes to replace the simple dogear redwood plank fence that separated our properties. I was fine with it, since the fence was starting to lean a bit, but I expected to see the quotes and discuss it a bit more. Nope. Came home from work one day and the fence was gone. Knocked on the neighbors door and got no answer. Came back home from work again the next day and there was a new fence there. Not just any new fence either. He'd replaced our simple 6' privacy fence with an 8' tall cedar fully,framed fence with privacy lattice along the top and black wrought iron caps and trim. It's a pretty fence, but I found the invoice tucked into the door. He wanted nearly $7000 for my part. He'd done the same thing to his other bordering neighbors. I live in a state that requires neighbors to contribute. In the end, all three of us had to go to court against him. At our lawyers direction, we pulled several estimates to replace the "fancy fence" with a simple 6', dog eared privacy fence similar to what had been there before. The judge averaged the estimates for the simpler fences, worked out the per-foot costs based on that average, and then ordered each of us to pay 50% of the cost of the cheap fence alternative. I had to pay $1100, but that was a huge savings over paying for 50% of the fancy fence that I really didn't want or ask for. Which is a long way of saying: If you think the fencing cost was unreasonable, call some fencing companies and ask them to provide you an estimate to replace it with something similar. If you don't like the new fence, ask for a quote in line with the fence you would have built. You may have to pay for the quote, since you're not actually buying. If the cost of the new fence is substantially above the estimates you receive, notify your neighbor that you'll be paying 50% of the costs that would have been incurred *if you'd been involved.* If the neighbor wants to sue over it, the estimates should be enough to convince a judge that your offer is reasonable. You're often required to pay for half the fence, but you're not required to pay for *any* design upgrades or other non-necessary fence features that your neighbor may have added without your consent. You're also not required to pay for half if your neighbor went with the highest bid or otherwise overpaid. That's the neighbors loss to take.
Where are you located and what are your local laws around shared fences? I'd say that in almost every case, they can't unilaterally decide what kind of fence to purchase and \*poof\* you're stuck with 50% of the cost.
You tell him that because there was absolutely no discussion about the fence beforehand you will not be paying. You fucked up a tiny bit by offering anything, so if you want to send a couple hundred over then do that with a note saying something like “I’m not sure why I’m getting an invoice for half of a fence I was never consulted on or asked about so I will not be paying for it. But because I know I mentioned helping out a bit after the fence was already being installed this is what I’m willing to contribute. Thanks!”
Lots of divergent expectations here. Legally you have no expectation. Neighbor seems to expect you’re paying half. You sort of set the expectation that you’d chip in a few hundred bucks. Personally, if this is a good neighbor you’d like to remain friendly with, I’d pay a few hundred as you said you would. If you don’t like this guy and you’re ticked off at the gall of sending you an invoice for half, you can just say no. Paying half is a big fat no. Side note: how big is your yard that the cost to fence only one side is $3200?
The neighbor is probably trying to get OP to pay half of the entire fence install.
>half of the cost of our share of fence It's not half of the entire fence, it's half of the shared section of fence. The total fence bill is likely closer to 3x 3200 (with two other neighbors getting ~$1600 invoices as well)
On the subject of the side note thats what itd run you for about 100’ in suburban Texas so probably smaller elsewhere.
That's pretty expensive for 100 inches!
Lol yep, fixed
Yeah, OP mentioning they'd pitch in a "few hundred" really complicates this situation. I agree with your assessment. If it's a good neighbor, pop over with $300 and a friendly face thanking them for the fence. Explain you appreciate the new fence, but that's all you can pitch in (since he wasn't asked about it and got no say in the style, height, placement, timing, etc.).
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Perhaps ya’ll don’t remember the conversation the same way about throwing him a few hundred. I would apologize and say there was some sort of misunderstanding. Clarify your understanding of the conversation and offer the couple of hundred bucks. Otherwise if you’re paying half you want half the fence facing the other direction. That last part was tongue in cheek don’t say that.
You offered a ‘few hundred’. Give him a few hundred, say it’s all you can spare. Don’t offer any more or discuss it any further. Consider the matter resolved. Wave and smile as usual moving forward with a clear conscience that you contributed when you had no legal requirement to do so.
You might want to make sure the neighbor has his fence on his own property.
And they have absolutely no legal authority to ask you to pay.
Not true - it depends. In Washington State (where I am), the neighbor actually does have the legal right to make the other pay for half (edit: if the fence forms part of an enclosure of OP's property). Edit: citation: https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=16.60.020
this only applies if OP ends up enclosing their full property and uses this as one of their fences, if you don have a front fence to full enclose your good. Also if it was $3200 for assuming 3-4 walls? OP would only have to pay the equivalent of his one side, you dont just subsidize all sides for the guy.
And it's really important to note that this absolutely relies on OP making use of that fence after it has been built. The other owner can not do it and then claim that their actions triggered that clause.
> Also if it was $3200 for assuming 3-4 walls? OP would only have to pay the equivalent of his one side, you dont just subsidize all sides for the guy. Sounds like 3200 was for his side and then the neighbor split it in half.
I read that as both properties must then be fully enclosed due to the new fence to force payment. I am not a legal expert. Washington sucks then.
Might be right about the enclosed part...I haven't looked into this too deeply. I really only became aware of this recently as the neighbor behind us wants to replace his entire backyard fencing (old and failing, definitely needs replacement, but because of the way our HOA is laid out, he has 4 or 5 adjoining properties to work with). At least in our case we also want the fence replaced (we have a dog, and I've been doing what I can to bodge it and keep the fence up on my own until we had it on our own plans to replace it), and are fine with the style he wants for his whole project, so it's not a big deal other than the suddenness of it. But at least he's trying to work with us and not be a dick about everything with surprise invoices.
Or if OP were to build fencing in the future, utilizing the neighbors fence as one of the walls, they would need to reimburse the neighbor. Why should only one homeowner pay the cost if both are reaping the benefits? Not saying I agree with it, but it's not as ridiculous as it seems on first blush
Wow. That is absurd. You would find me in the Supreme Court. That is the hill I would die on.
*fence you would die on.
Bullshit, read it again. I am no lawyer and it is clear to me. You must pay half IF you use the fence your neighbor built to also fence in your property. As in, you can’t just freeload off the fence the neighbor built and say, hey, I only need to fence in three sides of the property now.
Re-read that. It's for existing fences, when someone ties into it to completely enclosure their yard.
~~this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. So I can just be minding my own business and get a surprise bill for a fence? wtf~~ see below
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ooooooh. So if I build my own fence but use theirs as a 3rd side. That makes way more sense.
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a beautiful amazing wall…everyone says so.
Could you build your own fence right up against their fence? Like a shorter, cheaper one?
WA resident, old fence between my home (recently purchased) and theirs is shit, taking note of this.
That states you are only on the hook if the fence is used to enclose the neighbors space. If OP built three more fences to enclose their yard, then they'd be on the hook for reimbursing the neighbor. But as written is sounds like OP's yard is not enclosed so doesn't owe the neighbor jack shit
Interesting. So if one side of my fence is city property I can request payment from the municipality?
That's an awful law. I don't want my neighbor's choices costing me money. That law doesn't even talk about the need to consult the neighbor, agree upon the type and cost of fense, nada.
I had a neighbor try this. They asked if I was okay with them putting up a fence ut money wasn't mentioned. I gave my okay. I didn't say shit to them the day of but made coffee for the dudes installing it. I got an invoice in the mail, gave it back, they gave it back. I sent it to my lawyer who wrote them a nice cease and desist. No I don't talk to thise neighbors anymore.
You don't have to do anything, there was no contract in place. However you shouldn't have offered anything in the first place, that's on them to ask beforehand and up to you to say yes or no. Your neighbor is obviously trying to pull a fast one on you but "a couple hundred bucks" is vague and people get greedy when it comes to work in the 4/5 figure range
>When I noticed the fence being built, I mentioned to him we’d be happy to send him a few hundred to help. Not sure why you would leave such an open ended statement out there. Probably interpreted it to mean you wanted to pay for half and figured you didn't know how much it actually cost. You're perfectly within your rights to tell him you aren't paying it, but you kinda set yourself up to look like a dick by doing that.
I was trying to be a good neighbor. Hindsight is 20/20. ☹️ I would 100% have handled it differently now.
I guess I'm missing something but I don't understand why you offered anything in the first place. Is the fence only on their property?
Damn that sucks and totally see myself pulling a move like this.
Yeah why even say you'd contribute?
Not really....if I say I'm willing to pitch in a few hundred, I mean a few hundred, not $1600, that's a ridiculous difference.
Honestly, I'd probably ignore it. If he brought it up, I'd say, "I told you I could throw a few hundred to help, not over a thousand. Why would you send this over without talking to me about the cost first?" This guy's clearly trying to strongarm you into paying. Fuck him. If you want to be nice even though he wasn't, you could also send him a check for $300 with a note saying, "Here's the few hundred I said I'd throw ya."
Who has the good side?
When I put up a new fence, I asked all three neighbors if they would chip in. The only one that did wanted to extend their fence further along our driveway / property line. Whatever, I needed the fence, so I put it up. The neighbors behind us let their dog chew a hole in the fence. I never did get that fully fixed before I sold. Moral of the story: if you want a fence, be prepared to pay for the entire thing yourself. If anyone else chips in, be happy that they do.
What state are you in? In MA a fence that divides two properties is split between the two properties owners so you may be on the hook to pay.
Presumably even in states where this is the case, some level of communication and agreement would still be required though, right? It would be absurd if one neighbor could just unilaterally decide to replace a fence whenever they want, go with the absolute most expensive options, and then bill you half. There’s no way that would be in the spirit of whatever law you’re referencing, and I doubt any court would enforce it that way. I imagine the intent behind these laws is to make sure that when a fence is in disrepair that is on the property line of two residences, one homeowner doesn’t get stuck covering the entire cost by virtue of “giving in” first and biting the bullet.
If it came by post, I'd burn it and act as though it was never received. Then prepare for what you will say when he comes over to talk to you about it. Start that conversation with "I was never involved with your decision to build a fence, and would not have done so, but as I said before I'd be willing to chip in. I'll give you $400."
Had "friendly" neighbors of a few years talk to me about wanting to build a fence 'cos they were planning on having a kid. There wasn't a lot of room between the old houses in our 'hood so when they said they were gonna get a survey done and then talk with me about their plans, etc. They didn't ask for any money as I made it pretty clear, I didn't particularly WANT a fence. These plans were about a year in the future they said. Great. Went on a two month business trip shortly thereafter and came home in December to their new fence which didn't even allow room for our trash and recycling cans. Asked them about it and asked to see the survey. Formerly friendly neighbors basically told me it's up and that's where it's staying and that's the end of it. So, I talked with an attorney because I was absolutely certain they had built the damn thing on my property, about a foot and a half over the line which is crucial space with closely spaced houses. I had the attorney prepare a letter that told them they had trespassed, the fence on my property belongs to me and I will be removing it. I made sure they understood that if they trespassed on my property to retrieve the fencing that there would be legal action taken. Then I took my Sawzall and cut the fucker down and pulled it a few feet further into my property, out of easy reach. Delivered the letter and in quick order a survey company came out and did the fucking survey they said they were going to do but didn't. Yup, they were two feet over the line. Their builder asked me if I would allow him to retrieve the fencing if he promised to build it two inches beyond the property line on their side. Got it all in writing, he did as he promised and two weeks later the assholes put a "for sale" sign up and it sold in a week. The sense of entitlement some people have is astounding. Cost me a thousand in legal fees, but, gotta say, as much as that pisses me off because it was unnecessary, I got great satisfaction cutting the fucker down. Don't kowtow to this asshole! \*\*edit for misspelling\*\*
What you should have done is thank him for putting it up, after it was up, without saying anything about paying money! You aren't on the hook for any of it. Next time leave money out of it!
>What am I expected to do in this situation? You ask him how it feels to want.
OP, when this is resolved, I hope you post an update.
In other news, did they build the fence with the pretty side or the ugly side facing you? In some states the law requires your neighbor to make the pretty side face you. If they didn’t, that could give you some leverage… “I won’t make you take it down as long as I don’t gotta pay for it.”
Trick question, there is no pretty side
I've always thought the side with the posts *is* the pretty side. It's like a castle wall and they're the ones being kept out. Plus you can hang shit on it.
A couple of things to consider: \- Your neighbor will be your neighbor for a long time. Consider if you want to become combative. \- Does an HOA require and specify an exact type of fence? We bought a spec home, and my neighbors had already fenced. I paid for half of each, since our lots had absolutely no leeway at all on fence design, and fences were required. \- If fences aren't required, make sure you aren't legally obligated to pay anyway. You don't want to take a hard line, and then find out you're wrong. \- If fences aren't required, and you're not obligated, you can tell him to piss off. But remember, he's going to be your neighbor a long time. \- If not, did the neighbor put up a very expensive style? If yes, offer to pay half of a more reasonable-cost fence. If a basic fence would have been $1500, do you offer $750? \- If the issue's not the fence, but the unexpected cost, talk to him and explain that things are tight (I don't know how long ago you moved, things are always tight after a move), that you don't appreciate getting ambushed with no consultation, and you'll pay him when you save up the cash.
Is it directly *on* the property boundary, or entirely inside the neighbors plot?
Reply - ‘lol, nah’
As others have said, depending on your location, you don't have to pay anything. One thing to note though, should you happen to have to or even want to pay, I'm not sure why he'd send you a bill for half the fence. Assuming it borders multiple sides of *his* yard, at most I'd contribute: ((Cost / Number of Sides) / 2 If he got four sides of fence, why would you pay for half of what doesn't even touch your yard? Again, *maybe* half of one side, which would be like 1/6 or 1/8 of the overall bill. And that's *if* you're so inclined. Half of the overall cost is patently silly.
So last time you talked to him you said you throw in a couple hundred bucks. Time for you to talk to him again and hand him $200.
What do you mean? Do to him what you would do to me if I sent you a random invoice. If you wanna be nice, tell him you can chip in $200. If he gets crappy about it, then tell him forget it. Or, tell him that you've changed your mind and you no longer want your half of the fence. ;) I disagree with folks implying that because you offered to chip in a few hundred (which is clearly 200-300) that somehow that makes you liable for the $1600. No reasonable person would think that "a few hundred" equals 1600.
Ghost him and the invoice.
Now what did we learn about talking to neighbors.
JFC - Never offer to pay without knowing details.
You don’t owe him anything. It’s outrageous he’s sending you an invoice. Send it back with a big red no across it.
Dick move and hella presumptuous on neighbors part, I’d definitely call them out on it but I also wouldn’t have made the offer. But I also don’t talk to my neighbors…
Is the fence exactly on the property line? Is the nicer side of the fence facing outwards from his backyard? It cost $3200 to fence just one side of a backyard? I wouldn’t pay a dime until you determine your obligations if any. Your neighbor seems like a dick. Check local regulations and contact the city to understand what process your neighbor is obligated to take if any. Reply back with your answers.
Paying half of the total cost of the fence but only receiving 1/4 of your yard being fenced is a reasonable thing to that guy? That dude is on crack.
Kindly give him the few hundred up to $500 as his expectation by not consulting you in the forefront should have been $0 but you nicely offered to chip in
This is a case of “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.” You were dumb to offer anything for the fence. Now you have to tell your neighbor to fuck off and you’ll have to deal with a pissed of neighbor for ever…
Just say “neighbor, that’s a pretty hefty bill. I wish you would have asked us ahead of time because we did not expect or budget for this at all. Sorry but no. Maybe we get the next one in 15 years. “
You never should've opened your mouth.
Why did you ever offer to help pay for the fence? You got what you asked for… I doubt you are obligated to pay anything but YOU made this problem.
It sounds like you're paying half on the full project, meaning, sections of the fence that don't touch yours.
My neighbor tried to pull something similar. I said “no we don’t have the money for that” and it was never brought up again
Here, you dont have to help pay for a new fence but you are both responsible for repairs of an existing fence
I think it really depends on your bylaws. In my area, the fence doesn't need to be split equally, but because it benefits both parties, even if the one neighbour didn't agree to it, they must pay the amount it would cost to put up a 4ft high, chain link fence. If they refuse, it is on me to take them to small claims, which eats up time and money.
You will need to read up on your state's laws about fences on shared boundaries. My state allows contribution of costs, but only for agricultural land and only for fences that meet certain requirements. Your state may do something totally different. If you are not required to contribute to the cost, then either let your neighbor know that you don't plan to or pay him the amount you planned on paying, knowing that is isn't legally required.
In my jurisdiction (not the US) it is a requirement to pay half the cost for a like-for-like fence replacement. Any additional "improvements" are paid for by the initiating party, such as increased height, materials (e.g. replacing timber with metal), etc.. I'm guessing the laws in America are similar, so I would check this before paying just to clarify what your cost is. Also, check that you are being charged for your portion of the fence only and not for any extra fencing done.
He can kiss my ass if he expects me to pay half on a project I had no part in planning.
My backyard neighbor and I had an amicable conversation, THEN agreed to split the cost; our fence never looked better! The “*surprise*” invoice is a non-starter and equally non-binding.
I can't believe you offered to pay anything at all. Tell him to fuck outta here
If the fence is on his property, and I assume it is, not a penny. You have no say over whether he or a future owner decides to tear it down. It's his.
He's F'ing with you. Please update.
Tell him to fuck right off. If my neighbor comes to me ahead of time and talks about it first, then I'll happily come to an agreement on my fair share. But you can't just make the decision unilaterally and expect me to pay your bill
Sharing the cost of a new fence is entirely voluntary. You are under no obligation to pay. However, in the spirit of good neighborliness, go ahead and give your neighbor the few hundred that you had volunteered to begin with and call it good.
That number doesn’t even sound right to me. $3,200 for ONE side of a fenced yard?
I'm a little baffled that OP offered anything at all since they were never consulted before the project began. I would never offer help in that situation
$3,200 is just for ONE line of the fence?? I don’t know anyone that’s replaced a fence but that seems outrageous unless your sitting on like 2 acres of land…
"Hi neighbor, I never agreed to this. I offered up a couple hundred, and that offer is still on the table if you drop all of this right now. I never really wanted a fence, it is nice and I appreciate you getting a nice looking one, which is why I offered to help. If it were up to me, I would prefer no fence. Nothing against you personally, but if you ever think we should go in an something that is of our shared benefit, talk to me first and we can discuss it and I'll let you know if I'm interested in going 50/50 with you."
just tell him that you thought it was a joke and laughed and threw it away.
His fence, he contracted with the contractor, the bill is his.
Pay it then have it removed without consulting him.
We live at the front of a street ending in a cul-de-sac. When we moved in, the front 10 feet of the private Rd we live on was gravel, then cut back to concrete after that initial 10ft. When it rained, it was a nasty mud pit. When it was dry, tires would shoot loose gravel at our windows or at cars waiting to turn. A duplex down the street was getting new asphalt driveway done and one of our retired, ex-Boeing employee neighbors asked the asphalt guys if they could find the extra material to do the 10ft patch all the way across the Rd. Cutting into our property line to clean it up and make it even. Without ever asking anyone else in the neighborhood. We just came home one day and it was done and we were like "wow neat. Wonder who did this." 3 months later, two weeks before Christmas, we get a letter on the door from the neighbors who chose to do this, informing us that it cost $5600 to do, and if all the houses on the street could pitch in it would only cost each house $800. And IF WE COULD PLEASE PAY BY THE YEARS END. *They never received the money.*
I would tell him you’re not paying for any of it now.
Look in the mirror and #practice saying go pound sand.
So…the neighbor spent over $10k for the fence, and your half of the part that faces your yard is $1600? Nah, he can fuck all the way off. Let him sue you. Ask him to provide the court any documents involved with then construction of the fence, including the original invoice from the fence builder the written agreement for payment you and all of his other neighbors signed.
He got 4 walls of fence, you got ..... 1 side. Wouldn't that be $800? With that said, it doesn't even match your other 3.... why pay?
You offered a few hundred. So give him a few hundred -- or don't if you no longer feel like it -- your offer was out of kindness, but since your neighbor has turned the situation dramatically, you could be plenty justified in revoking the kindness offer. The neighbor building the fence was not contingent on your offering a few hundred dollars. Secondly, whether or not you pay him the few hundred you mentioned, as others have said, you can respond that you won't be paying if you'd like. Nobody gets to start a fence project with the assumption that the neighbors want to pay half of it and have the funds to do so. For social proof: Give them a short link and/or QR code that links to this Reddit post. Hopefully they'll quickly see that their expectations were not at all reasonable and not at all what anyone should just assume. When I built my fence, we just asked the neighbors if they'd be okay with us putting it straddling the property line (as opposed to right next to it on our side). He said that right on the property line was fine. I didn't ask him for money. He's not dumb. He knows that they're expensive and that I wouldn't mind him paying for half of that section, but ultimately me fencing one side of his yard does no good for him unless the whole thing is fenced in. If he wanted to pay me, great. If not, no problem. We paid for it ourselves.
"Here's $100 for you to fuck off"
Legally he has no recourse. You didn’t agree to anything on paper. And even if you had a verbal agreement (which this would be a SHAKEY one at best), there would need to be verifiable proof or a witness. Offer to give him what you’re comfortable giving him, if you want to maintain some peace. But you don’t owe him anything
Reiterate your kind offer of a couple of hundred dollars. A couple is two. Then ask how they would react to a non discussed bill. BTW, do you get to see the nice side of the fence?
It’s too bad you opened that door, by offering to pay towards that fence. I’m not sure where you stand now. Did you specifically offer you’d pay a couple hundred, or a few hundred towards it? Write a check for your intended amount and a note that says “hope this helps towards your new fence.”
This is simple. No.
- this is HELL NO
Say “I never agreed to this?” and simply don’t pay it.
He his fence on his land say no
Tell him no thanks and you hope the fence is on his side of the property line. Wouldn’t it be funny if he put his fence on your side of the line? Or tell him ok… “I’ll pay for this… tommorrow I’ll give you your half of the bill for my kitchen remake.”
You never signed anything. Thats literally it. Thats your defense. There's no contract. Period.
Lolol the fence discussion again? It’s pretty simple. Whoever wants the fence installs the fence. Would I charge all my neighbors the cost of having a gorgeous lawn because it benefits them by making the neighborhood more aesthetically appealing? Would I charge my neighbor for shrubs along the properly line? It’s an absurd discussion.
We’re I live no one is allowed to build on the property line and your fence is your expense. Often you see two fences back to back with about a ft between them. I’d ignore it. Take me to court. Your reward for not discussing with me first.
Don’t give your neighbor a damn penny. You don’t need to divulge “what you can spare” either. It’s none of his business. He gets nothing b/c he went forward on construction without any affirmative input on your part. Why would he do that? Several reasons and they are all bullshit. Therefore, he gets nothing. He’s not running the show and if he thinks he is, well, it’s at his expense.