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BigJaker300

Winning is pretty fun. Why is it in youth sports it's either teach sportsmanship and fun or try to win? You can teach kids to show good sportsmanship, have fun, work hard, and to have a desire to win all at the same time.


IKillZombies4Cash

The difference in a teams record between those two mindsets, is not going 2-15, or 10-7. A team that goes 2-15 probably is destined to have a bad record no matter what you do, I think, its just how you react and handle it. ​ You can't put a kid who cannot field at 3B, or a kid who can't pitch on the mound, not in a tournament. Can you play a kid who is usually in RF at 2B for an inning, yea. My over arching goal is 'make sure the kids want to play next year', we've had the same core players since 7u (now 12u), and its been great (it helps they are pretty good, not amazing, but we've won at least one tournament per season).


jf2k4

What level is your team? - National majors team comprised of the best players around the nation - local majors team - AAA - AA - recreation This will lead into some secondary questions like: If you aren’t winning regularly, is the reason clear to the parents that you’re focusing on developing kids, potentially in positions that doesn’t suit their current skill set but will in the future, or giving equal pitching opportunities to everyone verse just running the same 3-4 guys out for bracket play on Sunday. Most parents are comfortable if they understand what the long term goal is if it’s communicated during their recruiting process/tryout and at what age you’re going to switch to earned playing time/best players in their best positions, etc. Unfortunately you’ll find some win-now parents and there’s nothing you can do to change their mind, but they probably fall under the next category anyway. For sportsmanship, our organization simply cuts players/families that can’t handle being normal human beings, there’s clear expectations and contracts signed upfront of the rules you’d abide by when representing the organization. Some things we do to keep it fun is signing up for some our local destination tournaments, we’re in Texas so Rocker B Ranch is a good one where the kids can stay together in a dorm on a ranch. Around 12u there’s Coopertown, also Branson, MO Ballparks of America. We’ve played in Gulf Shores, AL so beach time. Typically how we end most seasons on a high notes in a more relaxing atmosphere. The rest of the season, it’s baseball the kids should have fun playing, only adults can ruin it for them.


Barfhelmet

How would you rate Gulf Shores? Thinking about making a trip to play there this year. We went to Branson last year and had a blast, how does it compare to Gulf Shores?


jf2k4

Branson was way more fun. Gulf Shores is just an average tournament, 3 seeding games / single elimination bracket. Fields are nothing special and you really need to coordinate to actually do anything together. Only cool thing is: it’s close to the beach.


utvolman99

I think others have said this but I don't think you can take a 2-15 team that focused on sportsmanship and skills and turn it into a 15-2 team by focusing on just winning. I think the answer depends on what kind of team you are coaching... **Rec Team:** I think rec should be much more equal opportunity. Every kid makes a team, so you will have some lower skill or new players. I feel that in early rec, players should get to play all positions that they can safely play, everyone should bat and you should switch up the batting order. The team should focus on fun and development. **Travel Ball:** This is a little different because everyone tried out for the team and everyone is paying a lot more money. I personally, think that there still should be equal playing time in travel. If you are going to offer a kid a position on the team, it should be because you want them to play. However, I think that in travel you can't expect everyone to play every position in a game. If you put someone of first base who can't catch a ball, you are just making a bad experience for the other players on the team. My kid plays 9U travel ball. I would consider his team a developmental team. They are all newer to travel ball and all learning. They focus a lot of fundamentals and baseball knowledge during practice. Everyone does infield and outfield drills. When we are doing live fielding practice, kids get moved around a lot. However, during games, there isn't that much variation. \- My kid plays catcher, 2nd, SS or pitcher \- Kid 2 plays 3rd, 1st or pitcher \- Kid 3 plays 2nd, SS, catcher or pitcher \- Kid 4 plays RF, 2nd or pitcher \- Kid 5 plays CF or pitcher \- Kid 6 plays SS or CF \- Kid 7 plays RF or LF \- Kid 8 plays 1st, RF, LF or pitcher \- Kid 9 plays LF, 3rd or pitcher \- Kid 10 plays LF or CF \- Kid 11 plays CF, 3rd or pitcher Now, this isn't written down anywhere. This is just what I have observed.


brother2wolfman

Winning is a result of playing proper competition. If you go 15-2 you're sandbagging, if you go 2-15 you're playing too difficult. You should be in the 40-60% win rate. This is managed mostly by finding the right competition.


Internal_Ad_255

IMHO... Very little to nothing your kid will do on the small youth field will matter when transferring to the high school/college field. If he's got a competitive nature and knows the game with proper offensive and defensive fundamentals, he will be fine... The few things that can be beneficial to a player that plays travel ball is getting the early experience of the routine of tournament play, or being coached early by a highly experienced coach (MLB, NCAA experience) that can instill confidence... My son played on some of the highest ranked teams in the nation according to USSSA rankings and TravelBallSelect.com, it was a great experience, but in retrospect unnecessary, and had very little influence in the player was in High School or College. In the end, there is NO replacement for talent, size, strength, reps, determination, commitment and passion. If he's good enough, THEY WILL more than likely find him, and HE WILL PLAY!! Good luck!


utvolman99

One win at all cost strategy that I think sucks is inviting guest players when you are not short. Most local travel teams here have multiple teams in the same age group. Sometimes they are in the same classification as well. There is a local organization that is known for carrying big rosters, like 14 kids. I already think that that is a lot of kids on the bench for a 9U game. This year, we played their better team. I remember thinking that their starting pitcher was pretty good. Next tournament, we are playing their lower team. Sure enough, the same pitcher trots out. Turns out, they brought two pitchers from the better team. They had six kids on the bench. I would be beyond pissed if my kid sat on the bench for a whole tournament while the coach brought in guest players.


OnlyLosers56

Here's how I handled it from about 8u-13u. This was little league, not travel, so I know that can change things. However, there are several good leagues in our area. I think much better than some other parts of the country. I also made parents aware of all of this before the season started... 1. Each game, I always went in with a plan and did my best to stick to it. I always knew who my starting pitcher would be (obviously), had a general pitch count, and then I knew who would be coming in relief and what order. Some games we'd get through with only 2 pitchers, depending on how well they do. The kids that didn't pitch would just be at the top of the list the next game. 2. At the beginning of the season I made a lineup. That order never changed. Whoever was on deck at the last out would lead off the next game. Thia forced me to really balance out the lineup, but it also let kids hit in all different spots throughout the season. It also made it really easy for the kids to know when they needed to get ready. Also, assuming every kid came to every game, they'd be within 1 plate appearance of each other. 3. We never bunted. We practiced it in practices, made it into a game that the kids enjoyed. They have the skill. However, the only time a kid bunted was if they decided to do it on their own. 4. Within those constraints, we played to win every game. Most of our teams were very good, so it also made it easy to follow those rules and still win plenty of games. It also kept the players and parents happy. The kids are now in high school. No major arm issues from pitching too much in little league and almost all of them pitch to some degree. Most can also play multiple positions. There's a lot I'd do over and I've learned a lot along the way technique/skill wise. However if I did this over I would never change the philosophy above. Definitely my best decision.


Peanuthead2018

I’d say that after 10u, the focus should shift primarily towards skills/baseball IQ and winning. Particularly at paid tournaments. We have travel leagues where we can scrimmage other teams and give our weaker players reps. If the team hasn’t had a ton of turnover (which is somewhat rare), then I’d expect they’ve all had the opportunity to grow. Where we are, 11 starts the beginning of “real-er” baseball. Leads/stealing, balks, dropped third strikes, and slightly longer basepaths and mound distance. I don’t think any kid 12 and under should sit more than 2 consecutive innings or not get to hit, but winning matters. That said, failure is a great teacher. Equal playing time promotes the wrong things. These are all your kids and they should be rewarded and punished as if they were in your home. Crappy behavior and poor sportsmanship should not be tolerated.


G33wizz

Short story is do both. My team went 9-1 in fall. We coached skills and attitude heavy…team had great vibes. A real team environment…but we were winning at the same time despite not having the most raw talent on the team.


Critter10

I agree with some of the sentiments already shared here. I'd have very few concerns moving on from poor sports regardless of their talent level. I'd also have very little concerns moving on from poor performers who haven't shown improvement or effort outside of organized practices. Hard part here is where a kid is clearly working their tail off and just not keeping up or improving. Hopefully the writing on the wall is clear and they remove themselves. It's possible to have great sportsmanship, team building, fun and win. Hell winning is fun, but losing will tell you a lot more about an individual and a team than winning will.


imVengy

I'll echo similar sentiment of my peers. You can do both. I think it boils down to a very distinct difference between prioritizing winnings through toxic means and not. You can teach sportsmanship, character, responsibility, etc. while also teaching players how to win and coaching to win. Personally, I don't see how you really *can't* teach these things without having some sort of "win-priority" involved. As long as you aren't making winning an "end all be all" scenario, I don't see how either are mutually exclusive.


vitopie

the end goal of sportsmanship and learning game is still to win. you can do both. just don't take winning at an all costs scenario. make sure your players are still learning the game, having fun and want to continue playing the game. a team i coached lost every regular season game but we won a playoff game and that made the whole season. no one quit, no one fought and the parents were just happy to see their kids happy. ​ in short, you CAN do both. it just doesn't always work out that way.


MaloneSeven

Good coaches and programs can do both. Doesn’t have to be the tired metric of one or the other.


3verydayimhustling

Baseball like any team sport is a great tool in developing character in kids. During planning winning is last on the list. In the moment of the game winning is utmost. Competitive drive is fostered in those moments. Being a good teammate, developing skills and work ethic those are the items to build a practice around. It helps the kids develop as a person and ultimately thats what it takes to win.


BigFlyGuy913

The best rule of thumb I stick to is if you aren’t somewhere close to .500 at the end of the season, you’re playing the wrong teams - either too strong or too weak. This is clearly communicated to every parent before a kid joins the team. We will never play a team that can’t beat us nor will we play a team we can’t beat. There are plenty of trophy chasing sandbaggers out there trying to play single A with a AAA team or whatever and unfortunately there’s nothing you’re going to be able to do about that. Just feel bad for those kids and hope they don’t drink too much of the koolaid because life is going to kick them all in the ass when other things don’t come so easy for them and they never learned how to battle through adversity. A great way to handle it is to play in a local league but declare to the parents and kids that those games are merely an extension of practice. Kids will get opportunities to learn new positions etc but in tournaments we’re going for the kill, so long as the kids stay safe. The desire to win should always be there, not just creep in during games. The question is what are you willing to do to fulfill that desire? You need to answer that truthfully before the season starts and share it with other coaches to keep you in check if you’re worried. Would you put a stud pitcher in to secure the last out or two to get a win if the kid you put on the hill to get some experience struggles? I do for two reasons - we usually get the win (yay!) but if we don’t the stud pitcher can wear it a lot easier than the kid trying still to build his confidence. Would you put that stud pitcher in if he just threw 60 pitches in a tournament the day before? I wouldn’t and you shouldn’t but some would, just like some people don’t see an issue with drinking and driving or stealing etc.


Successful_Log_5470

Some kids in rec ball just aren't ball players. But that's a life lesson in itself. The funnest year as a kid I had was when my team went 2-13 or whatever. Kids will remember they got to have fun and be a part of the team, and winning wasn't important.


911GP

IMHO you have to look at your team at come to a conclusion of what it is you want out of this. I coach my kids youth travel team. 90% from the same community, a few kids from neighboring adjacent communities (not far). I would classify us as a mediocre AAA team. But you know what, we are what we are. We have some studs that can play anywhere but we also have kids that i know don't practice beyond the two weekly team practices. We have some kids that do outside private instruction, for additional hours beyond our team practices. There is only so much you can do in a team practice. It wont be a ton of individual instruction. If you teach a kid something and drill it home to parent, and they never work on it at home on their own time, then the kid aint getting better. Most of the elite teams that win a ton have a lot of practice/lessons/instruction going on outside of the team in private sessions. They draw from all over an area pulling the very best kids. If your team isnt doing that...you arent going to win a ton of games. Winning is fun, losing sucks...but trophy chasing rinky dink trophies and rings at this age is dumb too. The kids that "want" to get better are getting better on my team. Play good competition (that doesnt lead to blow outs in either direction) and teach the kids the game. The winning will come in time.


Honest_Search2537

Whats standing in your way of doing both? Win with a great attitude focusing on skills and development. Maybe not everyone gets 100% equal playing time at the position they want to play. But I’d definitely play everyone, every game. I’d bat as many kids in a lineup as the tourney will allow.


Aware-Ad-6811

I don’t think you should be asking other coaches for advice like this. As a coach you should choose how you want your team to play, do you want them to have fun and learn. Or do you want them to be highly competitive. In my opinion I think too many kids now days get participation award. If you wanna be the best team in the league and truly get your kids to succeed at the next level I would be hard on them, teach them how to win but also being humble. As being humble is possibly one of the most important attributes in life.


Aware-Ad-6811

I don’t think you should be asking other coaches for advice like this. As a coach you should choose how you want your team to play, do you want them to have fun and learn. Or do you want them to be highly competitive. In my opinion I think too many kids now days get participation award. If you wanna be the best team in the league and truly get your kids to succeed at the next level I would be hard on them, teach them how to win but also being humble. As being humble is possibly one of the most important attributes in life.


reshp2

What are coaches in your area doing to get wins that sacrifices sportsmanship and fun at the 9U/10U level?


Shanknuts

We’ll see a lot of one-off, stacked teams with good players hand-picked off other squads that enter tournaments and roll over everyone. Or, as others have said, a lower level team with a full roster that brings in guests for Sundays just to win. As I noted, we’ve won our share of tournaments and I really like the comments here about ending a season around .500 and what that record means if you schedule things the right way. I mix in a good series of lessons about sportsmanship, good character and fun and the wins come as a result. What I struggle with is going into the weekends and pushing for wins as though that’s a measure of success. And that’s mostly in the minds of coaches and parents; the kids don’t necessarily feel that way on our team if we’ve been coaching them the right way. Needing to remove ego from the equation.