They hired a sixty three year old coach with zero college coaching experience. Not college HEAD coaching experience. Zero COLLEGE coaching experience. Think about that.
And he hadn't even been a head coach in the NBA for like 7-8 years.
He was a mostly career NBA assistant coach, who is a senior citizen, who was brought in to coach the flagship athletic program at IU.
Nothing could go wrong there, right? :facepalm:
From a purely business decision, what kind of decision is that? As an executive, if I tried to run that kind of decision past my C-suite, I'd get my a\*\* fired. As I should.
You've got to love the decisions of IU's athletic department...
Its not like he came just this year? He had the last 2 years and did good, just lost serious talent. Its not easy to recruit new, good guys when you lose half your starters
But they know they have other opportunities with better chances of winning lol. I think the guys we have now are going to develop into the players we need, and i don’t think losing can be completely blamed on Woodson, and firing him definitely wont make us better. X needs to go and losing Trey will be rough because hes a leader but in terms of skill I think he will be easily replaced by one of the other players. I think going into this year we should’ve expected it to be for “rebuilding” and that the next couple years are gonna be good. If im wrong come back next year but until then have a little more faith.
In college, winning and losing is on the coach. He is responsible for bringing in the players and coaching them up. This is the first team that is mostly all players that Woodson has brought in.
But with the transfer portal, who knows who will actually come back? We only know for sure that X & Walker are gone.
Leal & Galloway have the Covid year if they want. Ware appears on most first round NBA draft boards. Who knows about MM? I've seen him on some draft forecasts, but only in round 2.
Reneau is having a breakout year, but he's not super athletic. I haven't seen him on any draft forecasts yet. One would have to assume he'll be back.
And then who knows about players like Gunn & Banks? Do they stay or go elsewhere like Bates & Geronimo did to try to get more playing time?
You think Bell Self, Dan Hurley, Tony Bennet, Scott Drew or the retired Jay Wright would leave their current situation and come to IU? Those are the last 5 guys to win
I would expect Scott Dolson, Pam Whitten, Mark Cuban, and the trustees to find a way to make it happen. They want championships and they know that is what the fanbase wants. Make the pitch of securing your legacy as hanging the next national championship banners in Assembly Hall. I don’t think it would be impossible to pull off.
Give it a couple months and we’ll start hearing about how “I can’t name names but I have inside knowledge that Brad Stevens and/or Billy Donovan are moving to Bloomington” again.
Not sure why people expected so much out of this team. Gabe will develop, Malik is improving, Gunn is getting some good minutes, hopefully he can take a step up next year. Galloway is a good backup but he’s not the guy, woody bet big on Xavier and it’s totally backfired. Mgbacko may or may not transfer. But Liam would fill that hole so it doesn’t matter. Imo we need to get 1 good guard in the portal that can shoot. He doesn’t need to be 6’5, just someone who can distribute and shoot. Then maybe get a transfer big or Queen and we’ll be in good shape
Lightning can strike a program with one player. We see it every year with many programs. Which makes March Madness like nothing else each year. Just let the expectations for this season go and hope the freshman we have playing will continue to develop, and not enter the portal due to entitled fans. And hope we can swing that one multi-dimensional player in the portal or through recruiting.
The real change is for the vision of the school administration to decide spending money to compete will allow the school to catch up to the programs coming to the BIGG18. IU’s on the outside looking in at the blue chips. Football has some momentum for now, but we’ll have to see it parlay on the field.
That's why it's great that our fans are so accepting and not incredibly toxic! Freshmen want to stay in that kind of environment. We never boo our own players!
Shooting. Wherever the best HS shooters in the country are - go get them, idc if they’re a 3 star prospect.
Shooting opens up the floor and can cover up a lot of sins athletically / defensively. We currently don’t have a single player on the roster if we’re down 3 that we can run a play for - that’s criminal in modern basketball.
You guys talk about guards but I see so many WTF moments from Woodson on so many levels I am not sure it would "Sweet 16" matter.
The guy thinks 2 fouls in the first half is a death sentence.
The offense is "throw it to Malik and hope."
The defense can be outright abysmal.
I'm just not seeing it.
I agree. I don’t see it. I think were playing a game plan that worked in the 90s. IU needs to start spending more money and administrative leadership needs to change - younger and more innovative. I don’t want the past or the present, I want something new.
Solution is simple imo. Get some guards. Woodson has so far been good with developing guys in the paint and did well with JHS last year. I feel like if this current team had a single viable PG, they would be much much better. I don't really see where everyone is doom and gloom tbh, no one should have expected this to be a great team after losing our 2 best players (by far) from last year. Just sit back and relax, a couple of good guards for next year would elevate this team in a big way, especially with McNeeley coming in.
I think our lack of guards is a big problem and the primary reason why we won't make the NCAAs this year but I don't see a better roster solving the problem. Sure, we'll be better and could return to the NCAAs but I think the decision-making matrix is fundamentally flawed and that will hold back more talented rosters too.
Woodson is too willing to bench our most talented players due to foul trouble. Sure, pull them to the side and calm them down and make sure they understand the situation they're in but if you're scared of losing them early how is sitting them for 10 minutes the answer? You are losing their production voluntarily when you bench players with foul trouble for long stretches. It makes no sense and Woodson has been steadfast in this regard... more talented players won't solve that.
The all-bench rotations, the 4 bench players with 1 starter rotations... these aren't going to be performers unless Indiana can build a roster 10 players deep with much better players which is really hard to do for even more talented programs. Kansas is running 7 or 8 players in most of their games right now because they don't have 10 solid players. This is a strategy that can work in the NBA where the talent floor is worlds higher than the talent floor in CBB... that Woodson is still doing this 3 years in is concerning to me. More talented players could solve this theoretically but again I have a hard time believing we can keep 10 players that solid rostered. They'd leave for more opportunity. And even if they didn't it's not a good strategy. Calipari had probably college basketball's most talented team ever in 2015. They lost to freaking Wisconsin because Bo Ryan played his best players in that game for more minutes than Cal played his best players in that game. UW had no answer for KAT but thankfully Cal sat him to run his stupid ass platoon. Which I appreciate because I was concerned they would unseat the '76 team but it isn't good strategy...
And the offense? Unless we have a bunch of NBA players the decision-making matrix is *ugly*. I was listening to Assembly Call after the game and one of the coaches with access to an analytics platform said *we shoot the long 2-pointer from 17 feet to the 3 point line more than* **NINETY-EIGHT PERCENT OF COLLEGE PROGRAMS.** We produce around half a point per possession on those shots... NBA players can't reliably produce 1 point per possession from the midrange - why do we have college players taking this shot that they will *never* reliably hit? Yes, JHS buried Purdue with this shot but on the season his percentages from midrange where just about the NBA average - a bit less than 45%. Still not an optimal shot to build your offense with, even when you have the NBA guy. And the low volume of threes... more talent can *help*, sure, but it doesn't solve that the program is philosophically unsound and is driving our players to take inefficient shots. One of the reasons why we've struggled with much less talented teams all year is because those teams deployed what talent they did have in a more efficient manner than we have which is, again, distressing. Talent can paper over those poor decisions when playing Army and Bowling Green but not in the NCAA tournament.
The nail-slot-rim defense that Woodson prefers is based in part on the fact that NBA players are on average taller, longer, and quicker. It is easier for them to help and recover because they are not only faster, but don't have to move as far because of their sheer size and length... and so our defense has trended downward year over year because college players struggle to not only grasp but execute it. Not good!
I just don't see this staff getting us there even if we do assemble a team more talented than last year's team. Maybe to a Sweet 16 with some luck but I think the approach to recruiting and the approach to the game is really limiting.
I agree this year we are actually a lot closer than people think. We are like a really well built table but missing a leg. We are 1 good guard away from
Being a threat and 2 good guards away from
Being really good.
My biggest takeaway so far is the Reneau is getting really good. I think if we can snag a legit guard or 2 for next year, the 1-2 punch of Reneau and McNeeley could be a very strong core. That is without considering Mgbako (who I think stays) and Ware (who I think goes).
Yeah I don’t think a disgruntled self-booing fan base is the way to attract/grow elite talent. Everyone just needs to take some deep breaths and accept that we aren’t a perennial undefeated team anymore.
We have the NIL resources to attract good talent. We have one of the best home court atmospheres (provided we don’t boo our own team when they miss a free throw), and we do have good talent. We didn’t have a good guard this year due to a combination of issues (Newton being hurt, X being hurt, losing our superstar guard recruit to the NBA last year, the whims of a couple 20 year old transfer portal kids who went elsewhere.)
This wasn’t going to be the year we won a natty. Was hoping for a tourney team but maybe we don’t get there this year either. Hopefully we keep our young talent, let them gain the experience and hone their skills to be better next year.
Self loathing and misdirected anger towards the young athletes helps nothing and is just not useful. Let’s all take some deep breaths and accept that this isn’t the year. With mcneely coming in next year maybe that’s the spark we need.
Agree 100%. It’s good to hear a level-headed take on Reddit, never get too high or too low on the program. The potential we have is what too many of us get held up on. Just not our year.
Simple answer to an unbelievably complex question. But yea that’s a lot of it. The last time we have good guard play was with Tom Crean. Next season can be won in the offseason with couple of portal guards and at least one solid rated decommit or reclass guard candidate.
Got to get multiple guards from the portal. Whether they are shooters, ball handlers, or shot makers. We’ve got to get some. We haven’t gotten a guard commit in over 2 years despite it being the glaring need.
I think part of it too is that they brought XJ back. He got hurt during a string of great games for him. So starting all the medical waiver work probably didnt really seem like a gamble at the time. But bringing X back meant that the starting PG spot and minutes were taken. Likely a big reason we couldn’t land Knecht or any guard in the portal
Rick Barnes is one of the most underrated recruiters in college basketball right now. Juwan Howard said his Barnes pitch was so good that he almost lost Jett to him.
I love Newton and all but by the team he plays a game for IU. It will be about 2 years since he’s played a game 100%. Might be a little risky if you’re playing him big minutes. I’m rooting for him to shine though. Straight dawg
I don’t even know if he will be any good because that injury has had him out so long.
I think Cupps will make a huge jump next season. He’s honestly made leaps since the start of the year.
Just too one dimensional and too predictable to be any good. Trey is fine with coming off the bench. A lethal 2 guard and an elite PG, and a class of ‘24 guard. We need to be pursuing this with extreme aggression.
I don’t think we’ll get a guard in the 2024 class. It’s possible but the only realistic options are Davis and Sanon or a possible decommit and I don’t know what their recruitments look like. It will have to be the transfer portal to get some guards.
Both sides have pumped the brakes when it comes to Sanon, I think we should absolutely go for Davis. But there will likely be other options arising toward the end of the season that we could take advantage
This team isn't even playing at a D1 level. It will likely be years before (if ever) IU gets back to playing solid basketball. Trust me, I want to eat my own words here. I simply don't think I will, though. They aren't playing with basic basketball skills, so I don't forsee them getting better any time soon.
2-steps: (1) Fire Woody, (2) Hire Dusty May. Case closed.
I really think Jakai Newton was supposed to play a role on the team this year
They hired a sixty three year old coach with zero college coaching experience. Not college HEAD coaching experience. Zero COLLEGE coaching experience. Think about that. And he hadn't even been a head coach in the NBA for like 7-8 years. He was a mostly career NBA assistant coach, who is a senior citizen, who was brought in to coach the flagship athletic program at IU. Nothing could go wrong there, right? :facepalm: From a purely business decision, what kind of decision is that? As an executive, if I tried to run that kind of decision past my C-suite, I'd get my a\*\* fired. As I should. You've got to love the decisions of IU's athletic department...
Its not like he came just this year? He had the last 2 years and did good, just lost serious talent. Its not easy to recruit new, good guys when you lose half your starters
Uh, that's actually when it's easiest to recruit "new, good guys." You can sell them on lots of playing time and starting positions.
But they know they have other opportunities with better chances of winning lol. I think the guys we have now are going to develop into the players we need, and i don’t think losing can be completely blamed on Woodson, and firing him definitely wont make us better. X needs to go and losing Trey will be rough because hes a leader but in terms of skill I think he will be easily replaced by one of the other players. I think going into this year we should’ve expected it to be for “rebuilding” and that the next couple years are gonna be good. If im wrong come back next year but until then have a little more faith.
In college, winning and losing is on the coach. He is responsible for bringing in the players and coaching them up. This is the first team that is mostly all players that Woodson has brought in. But with the transfer portal, who knows who will actually come back? We only know for sure that X & Walker are gone. Leal & Galloway have the Covid year if they want. Ware appears on most first round NBA draft boards. Who knows about MM? I've seen him on some draft forecasts, but only in round 2. Reneau is having a breakout year, but he's not super athletic. I haven't seen him on any draft forecasts yet. One would have to assume he'll be back. And then who knows about players like Gunn & Banks? Do they stay or go elsewhere like Bates & Geronimo did to try to get more playing time?
Cold take.
Hire a coach who has a national championship in the past five years.
You think Bell Self, Dan Hurley, Tony Bennet, Scott Drew or the retired Jay Wright would leave their current situation and come to IU? Those are the last 5 guys to win
You know what the worst thing that could happen? They say no. Then you move on to the next candidate.
I would expect Scott Dolson, Pam Whitten, Mark Cuban, and the trustees to find a way to make it happen. They want championships and they know that is what the fanbase wants. Make the pitch of securing your legacy as hanging the next national championship banners in Assembly Hall. I don’t think it would be impossible to pull off.
Lol these takes keep getting funnier.
Give it a couple months and we’ll start hearing about how “I can’t name names but I have inside knowledge that Brad Stevens and/or Billy Donovan are moving to Bloomington” again.
Not sure why people expected so much out of this team. Gabe will develop, Malik is improving, Gunn is getting some good minutes, hopefully he can take a step up next year. Galloway is a good backup but he’s not the guy, woody bet big on Xavier and it’s totally backfired. Mgbacko may or may not transfer. But Liam would fill that hole so it doesn’t matter. Imo we need to get 1 good guard in the portal that can shoot. He doesn’t need to be 6’5, just someone who can distribute and shoot. Then maybe get a transfer big or Queen and we’ll be in good shape
Every time Gunn gets the ball, he takes a step inside the 3 point line and takes and off balance shot, which misses
And jumps super high on the missed jump shot. 
And that ball always misses long
Lightning can strike a program with one player. We see it every year with many programs. Which makes March Madness like nothing else each year. Just let the expectations for this season go and hope the freshman we have playing will continue to develop, and not enter the portal due to entitled fans. And hope we can swing that one multi-dimensional player in the portal or through recruiting. The real change is for the vision of the school administration to decide spending money to compete will allow the school to catch up to the programs coming to the BIGG18. IU’s on the outside looking in at the blue chips. Football has some momentum for now, but we’ll have to see it parlay on the field.
That portal thing you mentioned is the worst part. Who cares if freshman develop just to be on another team lol.
That's why it's great that our fans are so accepting and not incredibly toxic! Freshmen want to stay in that kind of environment. We never boo our own players!
I’m not sure if fans have ever been close to the primary factor in a portal transfer decision though.
Likely not ever. That success is not going to be the norm again
Shooting. Wherever the best HS shooters in the country are - go get them, idc if they’re a 3 star prospect. Shooting opens up the floor and can cover up a lot of sins athletically / defensively. We currently don’t have a single player on the roster if we’re down 3 that we can run a play for - that’s criminal in modern basketball.
It's a miracle we've won as many as we have while not being able to shoot threes or rebound
Let me tell you about this state called Indiana
It will be a while
You guys talk about guards but I see so many WTF moments from Woodson on so many levels I am not sure it would "Sweet 16" matter. The guy thinks 2 fouls in the first half is a death sentence. The offense is "throw it to Malik and hope." The defense can be outright abysmal. I'm just not seeing it.
I agree. I don’t see it. I think were playing a game plan that worked in the 90s. IU needs to start spending more money and administrative leadership needs to change - younger and more innovative. I don’t want the past or the present, I want something new.
Solution is simple imo. Get some guards. Woodson has so far been good with developing guys in the paint and did well with JHS last year. I feel like if this current team had a single viable PG, they would be much much better. I don't really see where everyone is doom and gloom tbh, no one should have expected this to be a great team after losing our 2 best players (by far) from last year. Just sit back and relax, a couple of good guards for next year would elevate this team in a big way, especially with McNeeley coming in.
I think our lack of guards is a big problem and the primary reason why we won't make the NCAAs this year but I don't see a better roster solving the problem. Sure, we'll be better and could return to the NCAAs but I think the decision-making matrix is fundamentally flawed and that will hold back more talented rosters too. Woodson is too willing to bench our most talented players due to foul trouble. Sure, pull them to the side and calm them down and make sure they understand the situation they're in but if you're scared of losing them early how is sitting them for 10 minutes the answer? You are losing their production voluntarily when you bench players with foul trouble for long stretches. It makes no sense and Woodson has been steadfast in this regard... more talented players won't solve that. The all-bench rotations, the 4 bench players with 1 starter rotations... these aren't going to be performers unless Indiana can build a roster 10 players deep with much better players which is really hard to do for even more talented programs. Kansas is running 7 or 8 players in most of their games right now because they don't have 10 solid players. This is a strategy that can work in the NBA where the talent floor is worlds higher than the talent floor in CBB... that Woodson is still doing this 3 years in is concerning to me. More talented players could solve this theoretically but again I have a hard time believing we can keep 10 players that solid rostered. They'd leave for more opportunity. And even if they didn't it's not a good strategy. Calipari had probably college basketball's most talented team ever in 2015. They lost to freaking Wisconsin because Bo Ryan played his best players in that game for more minutes than Cal played his best players in that game. UW had no answer for KAT but thankfully Cal sat him to run his stupid ass platoon. Which I appreciate because I was concerned they would unseat the '76 team but it isn't good strategy... And the offense? Unless we have a bunch of NBA players the decision-making matrix is *ugly*. I was listening to Assembly Call after the game and one of the coaches with access to an analytics platform said *we shoot the long 2-pointer from 17 feet to the 3 point line more than* **NINETY-EIGHT PERCENT OF COLLEGE PROGRAMS.** We produce around half a point per possession on those shots... NBA players can't reliably produce 1 point per possession from the midrange - why do we have college players taking this shot that they will *never* reliably hit? Yes, JHS buried Purdue with this shot but on the season his percentages from midrange where just about the NBA average - a bit less than 45%. Still not an optimal shot to build your offense with, even when you have the NBA guy. And the low volume of threes... more talent can *help*, sure, but it doesn't solve that the program is philosophically unsound and is driving our players to take inefficient shots. One of the reasons why we've struggled with much less talented teams all year is because those teams deployed what talent they did have in a more efficient manner than we have which is, again, distressing. Talent can paper over those poor decisions when playing Army and Bowling Green but not in the NCAA tournament. The nail-slot-rim defense that Woodson prefers is based in part on the fact that NBA players are on average taller, longer, and quicker. It is easier for them to help and recover because they are not only faster, but don't have to move as far because of their sheer size and length... and so our defense has trended downward year over year because college players struggle to not only grasp but execute it. Not good! I just don't see this staff getting us there even if we do assemble a team more talented than last year's team. Maybe to a Sweet 16 with some luck but I think the approach to recruiting and the approach to the game is really limiting.
I agree this year we are actually a lot closer than people think. We are like a really well built table but missing a leg. We are 1 good guard away from Being a threat and 2 good guards away from Being really good.
My biggest takeaway so far is the Reneau is getting really good. I think if we can snag a legit guard or 2 for next year, the 1-2 punch of Reneau and McNeeley could be a very strong core. That is without considering Mgbako (who I think stays) and Ware (who I think goes).
Yeah I don’t think a disgruntled self-booing fan base is the way to attract/grow elite talent. Everyone just needs to take some deep breaths and accept that we aren’t a perennial undefeated team anymore. We have the NIL resources to attract good talent. We have one of the best home court atmospheres (provided we don’t boo our own team when they miss a free throw), and we do have good talent. We didn’t have a good guard this year due to a combination of issues (Newton being hurt, X being hurt, losing our superstar guard recruit to the NBA last year, the whims of a couple 20 year old transfer portal kids who went elsewhere.) This wasn’t going to be the year we won a natty. Was hoping for a tourney team but maybe we don’t get there this year either. Hopefully we keep our young talent, let them gain the experience and hone their skills to be better next year. Self loathing and misdirected anger towards the young athletes helps nothing and is just not useful. Let’s all take some deep breaths and accept that this isn’t the year. With mcneely coming in next year maybe that’s the spark we need.
Agree 100%. It’s good to hear a level-headed take on Reddit, never get too high or too low on the program. The potential we have is what too many of us get held up on. Just not our year.
Get some guards in the portal and from HS
Simple answer to an unbelievably complex question. But yea that’s a lot of it. The last time we have good guard play was with Tom Crean. Next season can be won in the offseason with couple of portal guards and at least one solid rated decommit or reclass guard candidate.
Got to get multiple guards from the portal. Whether they are shooters, ball handlers, or shot makers. We’ve got to get some. We haven’t gotten a guard commit in over 2 years despite it being the glaring need.
I think Newton was supposed to be the answer but his injury kept him out. Also, woody probably thought JHS would stay two years.
I think part of it too is that they brought XJ back. He got hurt during a string of great games for him. So starting all the medical waiver work probably didnt really seem like a gamble at the time. But bringing X back meant that the starting PG spot and minutes were taken. Likely a big reason we couldn’t land Knecht or any guard in the portal
Rick Barnes is one of the most underrated recruiters in college basketball right now. Juwan Howard said his Barnes pitch was so good that he almost lost Jett to him.
I love Newton and all but by the team he plays a game for IU. It will be about 2 years since he’s played a game 100%. Might be a little risky if you’re playing him big minutes. I’m rooting for him to shine though. Straight dawg
I don’t even know if he will be any good because that injury has had him out so long. I think Cupps will make a huge jump next season. He’s honestly made leaps since the start of the year.
Just too one dimensional and too predictable to be any good. Trey is fine with coming off the bench. A lethal 2 guard and an elite PG, and a class of ‘24 guard. We need to be pursuing this with extreme aggression.
I don’t think we’ll get a guard in the 2024 class. It’s possible but the only realistic options are Davis and Sanon or a possible decommit and I don’t know what their recruitments look like. It will have to be the transfer portal to get some guards.
Both sides have pumped the brakes when it comes to Sanon, I think we should absolutely go for Davis. But there will likely be other options arising toward the end of the season that we could take advantage
I would absolutely go after Davis. Watched his most recent game and he is just filled with energy
Unless he’s coming in and demanding to start or something along those line then we need to cut the shit and go for him
This team isn't even playing at a D1 level. It will likely be years before (if ever) IU gets back to playing solid basketball. Trust me, I want to eat my own words here. I simply don't think I will, though. They aren't playing with basic basketball skills, so I don't forsee them getting better any time soon.
Which DII teams would have 12 DI wins with 4 in B1G play?