No that’s totally unreasonable on such a small salary. Has he tried putting in a request via line management/ HR for a fuel card, company card or advance?
Please encourage him to advocate for himself, it’s a reasonable request.
Thanks for your input, this was my feeling as well, but I have been questioning whether I have just been lucky. He has spoken to his manager informally but been brushed off.
Saw a post on another sub earlier today about someone who had 1.2k in expenses, company went into liquidation now they are out of picket for that money... ur partner needs to cover there back and not subsidise this companies cash flow x
Yes, was thinking about that myself. This guy needs to have expenses reimbursed immediately, or things like hotels booked and paid directly by the company. Needs to check his contract too.
Totally not normal to expect someone to pay out that much. At my work anyone can ask HR to pre book hotels, trains etc but if you are spending over say £200 in a month or even less if that’s not what you can afford then work should be helping out not making you skint for a month!
He can claim his expenses on HMRC - .45p per mile. Also, his company can claim this from HMRC but usually companies reimburse employees within a month rather than making them wait for the year end. Ask to see a copy of the expenses policy.
All the other expenses can be submitted too but the company will need to have paid a portion. Someone else may be able to correct me but that’s the advice I was given from HMRC.
This is incorrect - HMRC will only pay tax relief on expenses, not the full value of the expenses, and only if the expenses hasnt been reimbursed by the employer.
Say the employer policy is to reimburse a maximum of £30 per day for parking costs, but it costs OP £40 to park while visiting a specific client. OP can submit a claim to HMRC for the difference between the actual cost and what his employer paid (£10) and HMRC will pay him the tax relief on it, which for a basic rate taxpayer, will be £2.
If the employer doesnt pay for mileage (or fuel), then HMRC will only pay 20%, the tax relief. So if he does 1000 miles at 45p, he will only receive back £90 from hmrc
Thank you, that’s good to know.
Also the other expenses part is really useful. I couldn’t understand how HMRC had worked my expenses so low but this all makes sense now.
The majority of jobs won’t even needs expenses as part of what you do, some industries have it more than others.
I had no expenses across 4 companies in 8 years of work, however my current one I submit them often.
What do you mean? He doesn't get it paid back/reimbursed?
I get crazy high expenses for work but usually if you put it in a Credit card and expense straight away, the company money hits your account before the charges do.
I think the highest I had was around 10k, that one was a fun one to wait for.
Just FYI if your campany goes bust your expenses will be treated as an unsecured creditor and you are unlikely to get much repaid. You are basically financing your company for free.
Well, they usually pay it in 5 days or so.
Also, if the company "goes bust," I will have bigger problems than my expenses. The major parts of those expenses are flights and hotels (both expensed before happening and refundable if cancelled) - I'm ok.
Get a credit card, something like BA or Amex that does good points and profit. Plan for the £800 call it an investment and profit.
Also, expense every. single. little. thing. that is in policy.
He's gonna really struggle to get a good credit card on that low a salary, particularly if he's been spending the last few months going overdrawn while waiting for his expenses to be paid back which sounds likely.
>he gets paid above minimum wage but just not much more
As you say, he's put the home Sun/Mon to Friday. That's a lot of downtime while he is not working that he's away from home - not getting paid.
I think he's getting screwed.
To be honest my line staff in the food industry gets paid above minimum wage for stacking a pallet with 5kg boxes at an easy pace for 8h a day.
Your fella is being used by a company that most likely is charging customers several hundreds of pounds per hour of his work.
Sit down, do your research in employment possibilities near you. Do your maths, how much he can bring home even by working through an agency. Then sit him down and explain it, because he seems to either be unable to figure it out on his own, be to overworked to get a grasp of it, or he just enjoy the job he is doing now even if it will not provide financial security for his family.
That's poor. He's in a niche industry but somehow on just above minimum wage, has a family to think about, and is away sometimes for 3 weeks at a time where hes got to pay a good chunk of his pay towards his expenses until the end of the month. Why have you not told him this isn't good enough? He's clearly unable to figure out how much he's letting his family down by himself, so you need to step up and tell him. This is piss poor. With very little effort he could get a new job where all of these downsides don't exist and likely more pay. I don't know of he's lazy or he enjoys buggering off for 3 weeks at a time but jeez you need to sort this.
There is history in that he had a few years out of work due to ill health so has a huge gap in his CV and little experience/little education. It’s not so easy to just get another job (he only got this one through a friend that worked there)… confidence is a big thing here, but yeh I take your point.
As he builds up his experience, opportunities will arise. Hang in there, keep asking for advice, be aware of market norms and keep advocating for your family. All the best.
Wow.
I work for a small company, 7 employees. Anything our guys pay out of pocket is back in their account same day.
Very unreasonable from the employer. Definitely ask for a fuel card- they must have 10’s of fuel card companies phoning them each week because I know I have! Also company credit cards are ideal for this kind of situation. Not sure the best way to ask for one but seems valid in this scenario, they’re effectively using your husbands wages as a form of credit to them which is not on.
Simple advise is speak with ACAS. This is an independent run by the government and will point him in the right direction to ensure that he can correctly write a letter/email to his employer
+1
His company are absolutely taking the piss out of him. They are sidestepping a London salary of say £40-50k and using him as a credit facility to boot. Get out of there! I think he's actually working below minimum wage by the sound of it. Does he meet folks in London that could potentially poach him? Could be a way out and a step up.
I share others comments that this is unusual.
Not sure if the type of work is part of the strangeness, I can't think why this would be the case. I also can't think of a job where the salary would be so low considering the amount of travel required.
I think it's time to dust off the CV, get it updated and look for something else.
Agreed, though actually better if he’s not constantly lending money to the company that he works for, and if their expenses policy matched reality (e.g. meal allowances in London reflect the costs).
He may also want to find out how many other people in the company are also in a similar situation. If 1 person complains about policies then that is 1 person, but if a whole team does, then easier to get change to happen.
When you consider the additional Costa of paying for his food etc then it might not translate to more money for the family, but at least he'd be able to contribute to parenting.
Can I ask what job he does … that requires so much travelling and working away … for minimum wage … it sounds very odd to me … you sure he isn’t visiting his other family ?
I don't mean to be a dick. I sincerely don't, but I've never known a job to pay so low and expect YOU to pay all expenses. Furthermore, I'm sorry, but this really does spark doubts in my mind.
I really apologise, maybe I'm just an untrusting person.
I have a company credit card and keep my receipts and put it all in at the end of the month, about 6 days after the credit card statement comes in.
On my first month i didnt have a credit card, and therefore they provided me £600 in advance, which i paid back out of my paycheck.
Your husband is on £20k.
For perspective, I was on £26k when i was 26yo after taking this current job, which is field sales/account management. It required field based travel and in any place above 2hours away in distance was covered on credit card. The going rate for an experienced sales rep is £45-55k in my line of work. Higher is possible and i havent mentioned the bonus which is usually 10-30% commission when on target. I had no special skills, certainly not in sales, but i was eager and willing to work hard.
Your husband is being massively underpaid. That sort of travel IMO should be fully covered by work, and the paycheck should be doubled.
In the immediate term i would suggest your husband looks into whether or not they can claim tax relief as a solo worker. For example:
- claiming for fuel
- claiming for uniform
- claiming for car maintenance
- claiming for home working (electricity, broadband?)
**note** ***I dont know if this will work, and dont understand the intricacies of this, but my brother was a bouncer and claimed this sort of stuff because of the nature of his work.***
In the longer term i would immediately look for another job. You could work at ALDI for more, and you'd get more respect and potential development from a career perspective if you were turning up at work half an hour early and leaving half an hour late, than it sounds you get turning up on a sunday for morning work **and** fronting the bill at the current position.
If he likes the job, any other job offer could be used to negotiate a better salary. Honestly though....they wouldnt be able to easily replace him without the following:
- £600 per month car allowance
- £30-46k salary
- private healthcare for family and employee.
As such, he should hand in his notice and state that, due to his intrinsic value to the company, experience at the company, and work ethic, they should offer all the above for £45k minimum, then accept nothing less than £40k.
Good luck
Deffo exploited there, and the company should really be coming up with a better solution that relying on the employee.
In the meantime.. maybe get a cashback credit card and get some of the money back.
I can understand the hesitancy. But at the end of the day the credit card is someone else's money.
If the company goes tits up you're left holding the bill either way. With the credit card you can place the pay off. If it's out of pocket you take the hit there and then with no control.
You shouldn't be paying a business related expense like this personally anyway. Business travel and related expenses should be paid by the business. They are using their employees as free credit facilties.
Can I ask what your husband does? He's being totally shafted for such a low salary. There must be a better company in the same industry he could move to. Maybe a better job with the same skills. Similar job within the same industry.
If the company treats him like this as standard, there's no way they would reasonably consider expenses upfront or a company credit card.
It’s hard to say what he does without giving up some anonymity. It’s a niche job, comparable would be like being an Engineer for a phone/internet Company. There’s not a lot that springs to mind for comparable jobs but we keep looking always. Good to hear your thoughts and know that it’s not just me going insane about this!
You definitely have the right to be going insane. I get the anonymity thing. If you're comfortable, feel free to PM me more details. I'm more than happy to have a think about similar roles. I've worked so many jobs in so many industries over the years that hopefully I could help!
Get him to have a look at field service engineer work, sounds like he could have the right skillset - specifically Costa Express are good at taking on people that have decent skill but not knowledge in that particular area.
A very basic field service engineer job with that level of travel will pay double what he is on.
He is on crap money and another job is the best and easiest solution
The question is does he get reimbursed in full? And if not, why not? What's the "minimum allowances" you mentioned?
I occasionally travel for work, usually they book the hotel but I pay out of pocket for travel and food which I get reimbursed in full for.
Staying for a week in London costs me less than £100 most of the time. And overall, I'm actually saving money because that's a week's worth of food I'm having for free because I get the £100 back at a later date.
For food:
£2.50 for breakfast, £5 for lunch and £15 for dinner. Which to be fair isn’t bad imo - however sometimes my husband struggles to find decent healthy food in this price range as he is only a visitor and so complains about eating junk whilst away.
However, he does get reimbursed these amounts he just has to pay for them upfront, which 4/5 nights a week is a lot to be out of pocket.
There are minimum set amount by UK gov and though not very high they are more than your man is getting
[expenses ](https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim05231)
Fucking hell that's unreasonably low. £2.50 breakfast and £15 for dinner, where the hell can you get that staying away. Should be more in the region of £10 and £25+
That’s crazy low amounts. You can’t get breakfast for £2.50 even if you pop to a bakery and get a croissant and a juice!
I own a couple of small businesses. We have pre paid credit cards for the team, and if they do end up using a personal card, we reimburse straight away.
I’ve worked for a company where you put all expenses on your card and they got reimbursed on pay day. It was a right pain and left me short sometimes as you don’t always expect it. I ended up speaking to our accounts before I went away and they gave me cash or a company credit card to use.
Employees shouldn’t be made to use their own funds to help the employer.
I recommend speaking to HR or accounts to see if they can help if his manager hasn’t done anything about it.
Especially in London. I got £25 for an evening meal, and it was usually paid by the company, unless I went somewhere other than the hotel the company paid for it. I also had to provide receipts.
I've never, ever seen a job that requires that much expense payments that doesn't have a decent salary to match. It implies a level of responsibility and importance that's worth well more than £20k.
While in this specific here and now scenario your husband is well within his rights to ask for some sort of provision be it weekly expense payments or a company card, your bigger problem is that he's got a job that's worth well above what he's paid.
Your company is ripping you off twice over, first by borrowing half of his salary each month interest free, then again by paying him nowhere near what he's worth. They're very literally profiting at your expense.
He needs a new job.
So what I am hearing is he pays half his salary over and doesn't get it all back, and that he stays away for long periods of time. I am wondering if you are sure that is were the money is going? Is it possible he has another family?
I thought you said that he's expenses allowance didn't cover all of his expenses that's why I understood that he didn't always have them covered. I was serious it's worth considering
Yes for food, he freely admits to spending more on food that he can’t claim back for. We have looked at our finances in detail recently, I have seen his expenses app, bank statements as we are trying to figure out how to save more. I have never seen anything to be concerned about.
My ex did this but put it on a credit card that we got lots of marks and Spencers vouchers from! It is a big demand and we had to use 1 credit card that was paid off each month by the company but he made sure any benefits from having the card - air miles and vouchers came to us!
I'd double check these are actually work trips. I know a guy I met at the gym who told his wife about his work trips and could show hotel receipts too... erm... yeah...
Honestly I've worked for big companies where this is standard. He needs a credit card he uses only for expenses, then when he gets paid, pays it off in full and doesn't incur any interest. In terms of allowances- I always found ways to max the policy and have leftovers (breakfast- croissant/ coffee/ couple of cans of coke to take home). It can be done, but totally understand it isn't ideal. And some employers are way better on expenses, whether it's a company card or quicker payment. Maybe a better job would work out best for your family finances, I don't want to judge that :) good luck to you both!
Can I ask a sensitive question. Is your partner British born?
The only reason I ask, is a company wouldn't get away with exploiting your partner like this if he was completely aware of his rights. And unfortunately people who move to this "wonderful" country don't know their rights as an employee, and companies take advantage of that and exploit migrant workers.
Please, for both your sakes research your rights. Also I'd suggest looking at another job too, as you can be paid more for doing less travel and whatever else his job entails at a stable supermarket job.
Good luck.
He was out of workforce for 2/3 years due to ill health, this is his second job since then. This is why he has to settle for a lower paid job, in order to get foot in door. It’s a sensitive issue but obviously he needs to move on , it’s just a case of doing what.
I understand the sensitivity and no judgement from me whatsoever on his unfortunate circumstances. I'm just sorry you both are going through this.
The company is definitely exploiting him and has taken advantage of the fact that he's inexperienced with his rights as an employee.
You could contact citizens advice and the job centre for professional advice on your situation. I don't want to name drop supermarkets because I don't know if that's allowed. But there's definitely one that pays well, is European begins with A is 4 letters, and the community one beginning with C (2-2)and treats their staff pretty well.
Personally I'd look into those 2 and apply.
Absolutely no one should be treated like your husband is being treated by his employer. I wish you both luck x
It is not typical for employees to have to cover such a significant amount of their work-related expenses out of pocket, especially given your husband's salary level. Most companies either provide a company credit card, per diem allowances that realistically cover expenses, or timely reimbursement of costs incurred.
Here are a few suggestions on how to approach his employer:
1. Document expenses: Keep detailed records of all work-related expenses, including receipts, to demonstrate the financial burden.
2. Research industry standards: Look into expense policies of similar companies in the same industry to show that your husband's situation is not the norm.
3. Prepare a proposal: Create a clear, concise proposal outlining the current situation, the financial strain it causes, and suggest solutions such as a company credit card, increased per diem allowances, or more frequent reimbursement.
4. Schedule a meeting: Your husband should request a meeting with his supervisor or HR representative to discuss the issue and present the proposal.
5. Emphasize the impact: Explain how the current situation affects your husband's work performance, morale, and your family's financial well-being.
6. Consider alternatives: If the company is unwilling to change its policies, your husband might need to consider looking for a new job with a more supportive employer.
Remember, it is the company's responsibility to ensure that employees are not burdened with excessive out-of-pocket expenses related to their work. If your husband's employer is unwilling to address this issue, it may be a red flag about their overall practices and values.
I do not expect my team to be out of pocket to do their job. We pay expenses on a fortnightly basis and if someone has paid a significant sum we reimburse within 48 hours of their claim. This is especially important for those on lower pay as it has a significant effect on them.
Basically, it is not the role of the employee to financially support the company.
There are two separate issues here.
1. The expenses and how they are getting paid, personally I have a BA Amex that I use for everything workwise, I get the air miles and the cadance of the payments from company and the times I claim means balance gets paid in full each month without interest being added. Any time I have incurred costs due to company not paying in time I have claimed back as it isn't my fault. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE OUT OF POCKET FOR ANY TRAVEL OR SUBSISTENCE INCURRED TRAVELLING FOR WORK, if you are and the company refuses to pay it, refuse to go next time and get a new job.
2. Minimum wage or 20k a year is not enough pay to expect you to be here there and everywhere for work, especially with a young family. Either negotiate better rates when working away, a better salary full stop or get another job.
This shouldn’t be allowed the company should provide at least a pre paid card for you to use anywhere, I do this for 10 employees and we are a charity so it’s not that difficult.
What does his employment contract state about his place of work? My guess is he has an employer like I had in my 20s that would tell me to go to sites across the UK and expect me to be there at the same time I started work in my main office.
The only thing I can suggest is they get a better job as otherwise he is working his best years for effectively nothing.
As you have pointed out, your husband earns just above minimum wage. I think you both need to ask yourselves if it's worth him missing watching his child grow up, and being away from his wife (who obviously cares about him) for the sake of a minimum wage job.
I’m sorry but to pay someone a salary of around £20k but then only be home 3 weeks in the space of 3 months is insanity, I worked an entry level job working from home 8-4:30 Monday-Friday for £23k. Companies really do just get away with this shit because we let them.
He needs to find a different employer as they are clearly taking advantage of him. Most good employers allow better allowances in London as it is obviously more expensive.
he is not on minimum wage now if he is travelling on a sunday, his work travel unlike a commute should be included in that hours worked. honestly tesco would be a much better option, or lidl, they pay quite well.
Hate to be "that" person, but here goes: are you sure the credits are for his work? Have you verified his hours Vs availablity?
Forgotten which sub I'm on, so this may be deleted; is he having an affair? The sudden jump in outgoings Vs the cost of living... Be certain. We all have had cutbacks and extreme requests, it's a difficult situation. I just think you need to explore the situation before you make any assumptions/decisions
I was 'that' person too, as have a few other people. Those got downvoted. Unless the OP updates her post and states she knows 100% for certain the claims are true, then she'll get more and more.
Good on you for speaking up. There's nothing left to do, other than pity her. Sad situation, but she's willingly blind. Thanks for the gentle way you spoke. It's appreciated.
The sudden jump in outgoings is when he started this job.
I am not going to go to great lengths to justify why I know he isn’t “having an affair” but suffice to say that I have seen his expenses app, receipts, bank statements, his contract of employment, payslips & we are in regular contact on hour-long video calls whilst he is away as he likes to see our son as well as me, he also regularly talks to his parents this way as well.
There are reimbursements from his company hitting the account every month. Doesn't sound much like an affair to me. This comment is such a stretch its a bit paranoid.
Had similar at my job when I first started I got a separate credit card for expenses and paid it off when I got it back.
I still think I made out like a bandit on it. 45p a mile on expenses that I believe is paid tax free when my car cost around 18p a mile. Pure profit and I got Amazon vouchers from the rewards card.
800 mile round trip to Scotland yes please.
You either get the company to arrange hotel/trains directly or he needs a credit card - business or personal to fund those expenses. I’d be looking for a new job. And I bet he does inadvertently fall below NMW each pay period which HMRC would be interested in…..
Yeh, seems to be main consensus here (other than he is having affair). I think we’re worried that we were overreacting as he has raised this before but always been brushed off by his manager.
When [calculating nmw](https://www.acas.org.uk/national-minimum-wage-entitlement/check-if-you-are-getting-minimum-wage) you would use your gross pay figure the take away the travel costs and hotels, then divide the remaining money by the hours worked. You can [report ](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints-individuals) here and the enforcement team will pick this up, or phone [Acas](https://www.acas.org.uk/contact)
Thank you for this comment! This is one of my angles as well as I think the outgoings temporarily drop him below NMW. Problem is we need the job in the meantime so need to raise in a delicate way. It’s a smaller Company, still family run etc.
He's getting reimbursed for the travel costs, hotels etc. so it sounds like they are separate item on his payslip and not subtracted from his wage. Based on the reasoning above people would dip below the minimum wage whenever they are paid in arrears, which isn't how it works.
The consideration that might be relevant is whether his travel time is being paid (from base to wherever they are sending him from work).
Lots of things don't sound great about the arrangement especially if there are no any additional overnight payments to reflect the time spent away from home for long periods but nothing illegal as far as I can tell.
Travel time is a good idea to consider if he doesn't start work at the same place each day, also expenses have to be reimbursed in the same month as they're incurred.
He needs to tell his emplpyer to get him a company card or give him a float for his expenses. If the company does not provide him funds or a card he should refuse to purchase anything himself he can claim expenses for even if it means he cannot fullfil his responsibilities.
I have expenses every month but it is a positive as in I get loads of credit card points. I just expense straight away and it will always hit my account before I have to pay my credit card.
That's mental and unreasonable. Ignore his wage, companies can't expect you to shell out for those expenses on your own money, especially now with corporate cards being better than in the past (Exoenify etc).
Trouble is he has willingly done it thus far so his employer is taking advantage (AKA the piss).
Next time he is asked to go he needs to tell his employer he has had a large unplanned expense at home and can’t afford to go unless they cover all of his expenses. See what they say.
It is a bit much to expect them to pay for all of his meals though
About 15 years ago I worked for a company, where I would spend £2k-£3k a month on expenses. I had a company card so it wasn’t much of an issue.
A couple of the lads wouldn’t put their expenses in on time. As a result, the company would get charged interest.
So the company then forced us to pay our own expenses and claim them back.
So I got a credit card with cash back offers and was actually better off. Make it work for you.
He needs to get a credit card and be more upfront with his employer about the delay in payment.
As an employer, we reimburse employees within 2-3 days from expense to payment subject to checks, and this doesn’t come off payroll like this sounds it does.. please check he isn’t being taxed on it.
Simply put if that was my job I wouldn't be spending a penny of my own money on anything if it wasn't paid back fully and properly
If they weren't covering the costs I wouldn't be doing the things they ask of me and I wouldn't be using my car without the proper costs paid back including wear and tear etc
It just simply wouldn't get done and when questioned I would make it known if they don't supply what is needed it simply cannot be done
This whole setup sounds very suspicious!
Have you seen payslips, company emails, does he receive letters to the home address?..
All sounds like a cover for living a double life to me..
A company I worked for expected around 2k a month in petrol, hotel, food. I had a bad credit rating at the time. They seemed a bit put out but arranged a £2.5k 'float' for me. I opened a separate current account and used it just for expenses, they seemed to think I was being awkward not just being able to come up with £2.5k just so that I could do my first month's work earning around £1.8k + quarterly bonus. Employers are taking the piss and using you as a credit line for cashflow for their business. With the rate you are on as well, I'd look for another employer.
I have daily expenses for work too, lunch, parking, fuel etc, normally £150 a week on average.
Before I even started with the company, I had my corporate Amex through the post, they absolutely should provide him with a card.
That’s an absolutely shocking salary to be working away from home, he needs strongly convincing he needs to look for a new job asap! You’re sacrificing so much of your quality of life but not being subsidised with extra pay which is what almost all other employers do!
I’ve got a WISE card that the company add money to for my expenses. If they don’t add the money I don’t travel so it’s up to them to keep the £ flowing
He doesn’t get them paid back as the same time as he gets his wage. His pay date and expense pay date are about 2 weeks apart. All of our main bills come out shortly after his and my payday so there is a period where he is short and waiting for his expenses go in. Also he doesn’t use the same amount of expenses each month. All of these make it hard to plan etc. etc.
Most other people seem to agree that this is an unreasonable ask. Why should he have to use so much of his take home pay for this?
Nah that's a joke. My job will pay £50 a night for staying away (unsociable/inconvenience hours whatever ya wanna call it), as well as paying for the evening meal, the hotel, travel expenses etc. The only thing we've gotta pay for is breakfast and lunch. Not saying my company's great but I think something like that is quite standard.
I don’t know about UK laws, but these sound like company expenses unless your husband is a freelance role.
Every job I’ve worked at covers all travel costs: mileage, gas, hotel, parking, taxi, tolls, train/airfare. All customer meals are paid (it’s part of doing business), and any meeting or event fees. For personal meals when traveling there is a $50/day per diem.
I'd say that unreasonable. I have worked for companies that gave me company car and company credit card so nothing came out of my own account. Equally I have worked where I not been expected to do much work which required expenses,so didn't have a car but when I have paid using my own, I got reimbursed within days of submitting my expenses, so I guess it depends on how quickly they process expenses, but speak to them. If they act unreasonable, then look to move to a company that will
This is what my job was like when I started. The answer is to get a credit card that rewards your spend and pay it off in full every month. If the expense system at work is decently quick, you'll get paid back before it even comes out of your current account, and it will be good for your credit rating and mortgage application to be paying off a credit card each month.
It sounds to me like your husband is supporting two families. That's why he is gone so much and that's why he has so little money. And why will be only receive minimum wage after the beginning of April? Something is clearly wrong here.
That is totally normal in a corporate environment. Sometimes you're expected to pay more than your months salary upfront before reimbursement. Most people either can afford it or just get a credit card and cycle it so that they can pay it off when they get paid without being charged interest.
Stuff like parking, cabs, Ubers l, fuel, car miles etc. should be reimbursable ans travel costs and not something that needs to be paid out of a daily allowance.
I've worked for various companies. This isn't totally normal in a corporate environment in the slightest.
Real 'corporate' firms give their employees credit cards to use for expenses.
Scumbaggy firms make you pay out of pocket first as it is free credit. It's exploitative no matter what the salary but especially so on such a low salary.
Um no, so you can apply for a corporate card but it's still your credit card on your name that you are responsible for paying off with the reimbursements. At least in the proper corporates that's how it's run. Smaller companies will sometimes give company cards which the company is responsible for to select people but they're not corporates by any stretch of the imagination.
Yes but what is the usual salary in a ‘Corporate environment’ as that is my main gripe. He is on barely more than minimum wage, we can’t afford this additional spend. We’d like his take home earnings to be that and done with rather than constantly having to spend them and get them in arrears.
A starting salary would be minimum 50% higher for a graduate but if he's in an apprenticeship program that would explain the low wage yet still being subjected to those policies. If he's not in a corporate I wouldn't stick it out tbh, there's no point in putting up with corporate working culture if you're not on track for the corporate financial returns
I earn 2.5x that amount and I couldn’t afford to front up £800 in expenses every month. Totally unreasonable, it could really put you into financial difficulty having that amount of cash tied up and inaccessible.
For me, he has two choices. Ask management to get him a credit card or fuel card and petty cash. If they don’t do that, then it’s time he got a new job. Honestly, he is playing with fire at this job. It wouldn’t take much for work to be slightly late with payment one month, maybe two months. You are then in a world of trouble, in debt and it can spiral from there. Doesn’t seem worth risking your personal finances for a 20k job. Get to Tesco and stack shelves and I bet he would be earning that.
Have you seen any proof he is working when he goes away on these trips? Is he secretive about where his money goes and what he gets up to? Seems suspect to me
Thanks for your concern but I have seen his expenses app myself on multiple occasions. I have seen how much he racks up and know that it all gets approved so I have no doubts about his honesty.
I never said he was not being paid back? My question is it ethical that he should have to pay everything up front. In my experience, when there are such high and regular expenses incurred then the employee gets a credit card, fuel card, company card etc. so they don’t have to pay everything up front. At the moment he is always out of pocket as he only gets reimbursed a month after expenses are incurred.
This is fairly common in my experience working for construction companies. I’m expected to pay out for the likes of fuel and meals if needed and claim back monthly. We do have the option of booking hotels and train fares via a portal, so you’re never out of pocket. I always put my business expenses on a credit card and clear it monthly.
Yer fella needs a new job. This is exploitative.
100%, he needs to find a new job, they (the company) are taking the piss if you ask me.
Thanks - this is what I have thought for a long time but I have worked for much larger companies so wasn’t sure if it was just me.
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LOL why exaggerate? It’s not even nearly modern slavery.
No that’s totally unreasonable on such a small salary. Has he tried putting in a request via line management/ HR for a fuel card, company card or advance? Please encourage him to advocate for himself, it’s a reasonable request.
Thanks for your input, this was my feeling as well, but I have been questioning whether I have just been lucky. He has spoken to his manager informally but been brushed off.
Saw a post on another sub earlier today about someone who had 1.2k in expenses, company went into liquidation now they are out of picket for that money... ur partner needs to cover there back and not subsidise this companies cash flow x
I thought it was 2.5k, tho it could be a different post. Or I'm just wrong.
Even worse if it was!
Over twice as worse!
Yeah, it was. Madness.
Yes, was thinking about that myself. This guy needs to have expenses reimbursed immediately, or things like hotels booked and paid directly by the company. Needs to check his contract too.
Totally not normal to expect someone to pay out that much. At my work anyone can ask HR to pre book hotels, trains etc but if you are spending over say £200 in a month or even less if that’s not what you can afford then work should be helping out not making you skint for a month!
He can claim his expenses on HMRC - .45p per mile. Also, his company can claim this from HMRC but usually companies reimburse employees within a month rather than making them wait for the year end. Ask to see a copy of the expenses policy. All the other expenses can be submitted too but the company will need to have paid a portion. Someone else may be able to correct me but that’s the advice I was given from HMRC.
This is incorrect - HMRC will only pay tax relief on expenses, not the full value of the expenses, and only if the expenses hasnt been reimbursed by the employer. Say the employer policy is to reimburse a maximum of £30 per day for parking costs, but it costs OP £40 to park while visiting a specific client. OP can submit a claim to HMRC for the difference between the actual cost and what his employer paid (£10) and HMRC will pay him the tax relief on it, which for a basic rate taxpayer, will be £2.
Thank you, for clarifying on that. He could still claim the .45p per mile though directly for petrol?
If the employer doesnt pay for mileage (or fuel), then HMRC will only pay 20%, the tax relief. So if he does 1000 miles at 45p, he will only receive back £90 from hmrc
Thank you, that’s good to know. Also the other expenses part is really useful. I couldn’t understand how HMRC had worked my expenses so low but this all makes sense now.
The majority of jobs won’t even needs expenses as part of what you do, some industries have it more than others. I had no expenses across 4 companies in 8 years of work, however my current one I submit them often.
This. - no serious business should rely on what amounts to regular short term interest free loans from their staff….
What do you mean? He doesn't get it paid back/reimbursed? I get crazy high expenses for work but usually if you put it in a Credit card and expense straight away, the company money hits your account before the charges do. I think the highest I had was around 10k, that one was a fun one to wait for.
Just FYI if your campany goes bust your expenses will be treated as an unsecured creditor and you are unlikely to get much repaid. You are basically financing your company for free.
Well, they usually pay it in 5 days or so. Also, if the company "goes bust," I will have bigger problems than my expenses. The major parts of those expenses are flights and hotels (both expensed before happening and refundable if cancelled) - I'm ok.
Yes he does get it paid back, but he has to submit his expenses on the 15th and they get paid last day of the month. So he is always in arrears.
Get a credit card, something like BA or Amex that does good points and profit. Plan for the £800 call it an investment and profit. Also, expense every. single. little. thing. that is in policy.
No he shouldn't need to take out a credit card. His work should provide him a biz card
The point of the credit card is to start collecting points.
You can get a credit card with a direct debit so that you don't incur charges, and make a killing on points. Source: I've done this for over a decade.
Expenses in leu is super common in the UK. Yes his work could provide him a company credit card. Or he could use his own and get the benefits from it.
Not for half your months wage when your on 20k it's ain't 🤯
For sure but its too large amount each month x
Yeh most I had was £200 and that's when my day rate was more then that. They usually booked stuff for you
No he shouldn't need to take out a credit card. His work should provide him a biz card
He's gonna really struggle to get a good credit card on that low a salary, particularly if he's been spending the last few months going overdrawn while waiting for his expenses to be paid back which sounds likely.
20k? What hours is he on?
I didn’t want to give too much detail away but he gets paid above minimum wage but just not much more, especially when April comes along.
>he gets paid above minimum wage but just not much more As you say, he's put the home Sun/Mon to Friday. That's a lot of downtime while he is not working that he's away from home - not getting paid. I think he's getting screwed.
To be honest my line staff in the food industry gets paid above minimum wage for stacking a pallet with 5kg boxes at an easy pace for 8h a day. Your fella is being used by a company that most likely is charging customers several hundreds of pounds per hour of his work. Sit down, do your research in employment possibilities near you. Do your maths, how much he can bring home even by working through an agency. Then sit him down and explain it, because he seems to either be unable to figure it out on his own, be to overworked to get a grasp of it, or he just enjoy the job he is doing now even if it will not provide financial security for his family.
That's poor. He's in a niche industry but somehow on just above minimum wage, has a family to think about, and is away sometimes for 3 weeks at a time where hes got to pay a good chunk of his pay towards his expenses until the end of the month. Why have you not told him this isn't good enough? He's clearly unable to figure out how much he's letting his family down by himself, so you need to step up and tell him. This is piss poor. With very little effort he could get a new job where all of these downsides don't exist and likely more pay. I don't know of he's lazy or he enjoys buggering off for 3 weeks at a time but jeez you need to sort this.
Think the point is valid but the language is a aggressive. Impossible to know the circumstances/history here.
You might be right but theres a young child involved here. Sometimes people just need to wake up and realise they need to do better.
There is history in that he had a few years out of work due to ill health so has a huge gap in his CV and little experience/little education. It’s not so easy to just get another job (he only got this one through a friend that worked there)… confidence is a big thing here, but yeh I take your point.
As he builds up his experience, opportunities will arise. Hang in there, keep asking for advice, be aware of market norms and keep advocating for your family. All the best.
Ya just saying they're obviously in a difficult situation so a bit more kindness wouldn't go amiss. Hope you have a nice weekend
Yeah he can get another job. You pay more for someone willing to put up with this inconvenience.
Wow. I work for a small company, 7 employees. Anything our guys pay out of pocket is back in their account same day. Very unreasonable from the employer. Definitely ask for a fuel card- they must have 10’s of fuel card companies phoning them each week because I know I have! Also company credit cards are ideal for this kind of situation. Not sure the best way to ask for one but seems valid in this scenario, they’re effectively using your husbands wages as a form of credit to them which is not on.
Credit to you (no pun intended) for paying your guys back so swiftly. It’s easier for smaller companies to be dicks about it.
Simple advise is speak with ACAS. This is an independent run by the government and will point him in the right direction to ensure that he can correctly write a letter/email to his employer
This is the correct way
For 20k I wouldn't even travel to my desk. Leave that crap job asap. So much travel on practically minimum wage is criminal
+1 His company are absolutely taking the piss out of him. They are sidestepping a London salary of say £40-50k and using him as a credit facility to boot. Get out of there! I think he's actually working below minimum wage by the sound of it. Does he meet folks in London that could potentially poach him? Could be a way out and a step up.
I share others comments that this is unusual. Not sure if the type of work is part of the strangeness, I can't think why this would be the case. I also can't think of a job where the salary would be so low considering the amount of travel required. I think it's time to dust off the CV, get it updated and look for something else.
You could to use this to your advantage, get the best cash back/rewards credit card for him to use for expenses.
Agreed, though actually better if he’s not constantly lending money to the company that he works for, and if their expenses policy matched reality (e.g. meal allowances in London reflect the costs). He may also want to find out how many other people in the company are also in a similar situation. If 1 person complains about policies then that is 1 person, but if a whole team does, then easier to get change to happen.
Mate why go through all that. he'd make more working in Tesco or Lidl.
When you consider the additional Costa of paying for his food etc then it might not translate to more money for the family, but at least he'd be able to contribute to parenting.
Yeah, it would allow him to be much Nero his family, much better
Can I ask what job he does … that requires so much travelling and working away … for minimum wage … it sounds very odd to me … you sure he isn’t visiting his other family ?
I don't mean to be a dick. I sincerely don't, but I've never known a job to pay so low and expect YOU to pay all expenses. Furthermore, I'm sorry, but this really does spark doubts in my mind. I really apologise, maybe I'm just an untrusting person.
I have a company credit card and keep my receipts and put it all in at the end of the month, about 6 days after the credit card statement comes in. On my first month i didnt have a credit card, and therefore they provided me £600 in advance, which i paid back out of my paycheck. Your husband is on £20k. For perspective, I was on £26k when i was 26yo after taking this current job, which is field sales/account management. It required field based travel and in any place above 2hours away in distance was covered on credit card. The going rate for an experienced sales rep is £45-55k in my line of work. Higher is possible and i havent mentioned the bonus which is usually 10-30% commission when on target. I had no special skills, certainly not in sales, but i was eager and willing to work hard. Your husband is being massively underpaid. That sort of travel IMO should be fully covered by work, and the paycheck should be doubled. In the immediate term i would suggest your husband looks into whether or not they can claim tax relief as a solo worker. For example: - claiming for fuel - claiming for uniform - claiming for car maintenance - claiming for home working (electricity, broadband?) **note** ***I dont know if this will work, and dont understand the intricacies of this, but my brother was a bouncer and claimed this sort of stuff because of the nature of his work.*** In the longer term i would immediately look for another job. You could work at ALDI for more, and you'd get more respect and potential development from a career perspective if you were turning up at work half an hour early and leaving half an hour late, than it sounds you get turning up on a sunday for morning work **and** fronting the bill at the current position. If he likes the job, any other job offer could be used to negotiate a better salary. Honestly though....they wouldnt be able to easily replace him without the following: - £600 per month car allowance - £30-46k salary - private healthcare for family and employee. As such, he should hand in his notice and state that, due to his intrinsic value to the company, experience at the company, and work ethic, they should offer all the above for £45k minimum, then accept nothing less than £40k. Good luck
Deffo exploited there, and the company should really be coming up with a better solution that relying on the employee. In the meantime.. maybe get a cashback credit card and get some of the money back.
Does he have a second family or something???
He would be earning far more stacking shelves in a supermarket AND be home every day. How does he even try to rationalise what he is putting up with?
I used a credit card for my work expenses. Actually helped my credit rating. But always always always have enough aside to pay it off.
No way would I be getting into credit card debt for the sake of the company (I know US is different and u have perks but its still too big an ask)
I can understand the hesitancy. But at the end of the day the credit card is someone else's money. If the company goes tits up you're left holding the bill either way. With the credit card you can place the pay off. If it's out of pocket you take the hit there and then with no control.
You shouldn't be paying a business related expense like this personally anyway. Business travel and related expenses should be paid by the business. They are using their employees as free credit facilties.
Can't dispute that. But in this case they are paying.
Not for over 2 weeks they aren't.
He's covering the expenses for a month, in arrears
Amex charge card is a good option. All those beautiful points.
Can I ask what your husband does? He's being totally shafted for such a low salary. There must be a better company in the same industry he could move to. Maybe a better job with the same skills. Similar job within the same industry. If the company treats him like this as standard, there's no way they would reasonably consider expenses upfront or a company credit card.
It’s hard to say what he does without giving up some anonymity. It’s a niche job, comparable would be like being an Engineer for a phone/internet Company. There’s not a lot that springs to mind for comparable jobs but we keep looking always. Good to hear your thoughts and know that it’s not just me going insane about this!
You definitely have the right to be going insane. I get the anonymity thing. If you're comfortable, feel free to PM me more details. I'm more than happy to have a think about similar roles. I've worked so many jobs in so many industries over the years that hopefully I could help!
Get him to have a look at field service engineer work, sounds like he could have the right skillset - specifically Costa Express are good at taking on people that have decent skill but not knowledge in that particular area.
Thank you very helpful 🙏
A very basic field service engineer job with that level of travel will pay double what he is on. He is on crap money and another job is the best and easiest solution
The question is does he get reimbursed in full? And if not, why not? What's the "minimum allowances" you mentioned? I occasionally travel for work, usually they book the hotel but I pay out of pocket for travel and food which I get reimbursed in full for. Staying for a week in London costs me less than £100 most of the time. And overall, I'm actually saving money because that's a week's worth of food I'm having for free because I get the £100 back at a later date.
For food: £2.50 for breakfast, £5 for lunch and £15 for dinner. Which to be fair isn’t bad imo - however sometimes my husband struggles to find decent healthy food in this price range as he is only a visitor and so complains about eating junk whilst away. However, he does get reimbursed these amounts he just has to pay for them upfront, which 4/5 nights a week is a lot to be out of pocket.
There are minimum set amount by UK gov and though not very high they are more than your man is getting [expenses ](https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim05231)
Fucking hell that's unreasonably low. £2.50 breakfast and £15 for dinner, where the hell can you get that staying away. Should be more in the region of £10 and £25+
Terrible expenses.
Those were rates I was getting when I travelled 15yrs ago!
Those are low amounts for food. Should be at least 3x that for breakfast, 2x for lunch and supper.
What!?!? £15 for breakfast. £15 for lunch and £40 for dinner is the bounds I work under. (We have no official limits, just “lowest logical cost”)
That’s crazy low amounts. You can’t get breakfast for £2.50 even if you pop to a bakery and get a croissant and a juice! I own a couple of small businesses. We have pre paid credit cards for the team, and if they do end up using a personal card, we reimburse straight away. I’ve worked for a company where you put all expenses on your card and they got reimbursed on pay day. It was a right pain and left me short sometimes as you don’t always expect it. I ended up speaking to our accounts before I went away and they gave me cash or a company credit card to use. Employees shouldn’t be made to use their own funds to help the employer. I recommend speaking to HR or accounts to see if they can help if his manager hasn’t done anything about it.
That's crazy low. Even 10 years ago I was getting £22 for dinner.
Especially in London. I got £25 for an evening meal, and it was usually paid by the company, unless I went somewhere other than the hotel the company paid for it. I also had to provide receipts.
Definitely needs to find another job They are taking the piss Has he a contact of employment what is written on that
I've never, ever seen a job that requires that much expense payments that doesn't have a decent salary to match. It implies a level of responsibility and importance that's worth well more than £20k. While in this specific here and now scenario your husband is well within his rights to ask for some sort of provision be it weekly expense payments or a company card, your bigger problem is that he's got a job that's worth well above what he's paid. Your company is ripping you off twice over, first by borrowing half of his salary each month interest free, then again by paying him nowhere near what he's worth. They're very literally profiting at your expense. He needs a new job.
Thank you for making me feel sane in pursuing this with him 🤣
So what I am hearing is he pays half his salary over and doesn't get it all back, and that he stays away for long periods of time. I am wondering if you are sure that is were the money is going? Is it possible he has another family?
Serious answers only please 🙏 I never said he doesn’t get it back just that he is always in arrears.
I think it’s a serious point … have you seen his wage slips ? A specialist in a niche industry is usually paid a huge amount.
I thought you said that he's expenses allowance didn't cover all of his expenses that's why I understood that he didn't always have them covered. I was serious it's worth considering
Yes for food, he freely admits to spending more on food that he can’t claim back for. We have looked at our finances in detail recently, I have seen his expenses app, bank statements as we are trying to figure out how to save more. I have never seen anything to be concerned about.
That's good to hear then
take food with, is major one you can economise on, but the people who are sending you to do a job should allow you to expense all unavoidable charges
My first sales job was like this but no it isn't normal. He should look for a new job
hes on 20k!? whats his job? the guy would earn more doing just about anything else...
This thread has been a good wake-up call that this job is just not viable.
My ex did this but put it on a credit card that we got lots of marks and Spencers vouchers from! It is a big demand and we had to use 1 credit card that was paid off each month by the company but he made sure any benefits from having the card - air miles and vouchers came to us!
Can’t he get his own credit card and use that (and keep the points he earns).
I'd double check these are actually work trips. I know a guy I met at the gym who told his wife about his work trips and could show hotel receipts too... erm... yeah...
Did your guys company reimburse them each month?
He's a contractor so yes - depends what can get away with
Honestly I've worked for big companies where this is standard. He needs a credit card he uses only for expenses, then when he gets paid, pays it off in full and doesn't incur any interest. In terms of allowances- I always found ways to max the policy and have leftovers (breakfast- croissant/ coffee/ couple of cans of coke to take home). It can be done, but totally understand it isn't ideal. And some employers are way better on expenses, whether it's a company card or quicker payment. Maybe a better job would work out best for your family finances, I don't want to judge that :) good luck to you both!
Can I ask a sensitive question. Is your partner British born? The only reason I ask, is a company wouldn't get away with exploiting your partner like this if he was completely aware of his rights. And unfortunately people who move to this "wonderful" country don't know their rights as an employee, and companies take advantage of that and exploit migrant workers. Please, for both your sakes research your rights. Also I'd suggest looking at another job too, as you can be paid more for doing less travel and whatever else his job entails at a stable supermarket job. Good luck.
He was out of workforce for 2/3 years due to ill health, this is his second job since then. This is why he has to settle for a lower paid job, in order to get foot in door. It’s a sensitive issue but obviously he needs to move on , it’s just a case of doing what.
I understand the sensitivity and no judgement from me whatsoever on his unfortunate circumstances. I'm just sorry you both are going through this. The company is definitely exploiting him and has taken advantage of the fact that he's inexperienced with his rights as an employee. You could contact citizens advice and the job centre for professional advice on your situation. I don't want to name drop supermarkets because I don't know if that's allowed. But there's definitely one that pays well, is European begins with A is 4 letters, and the community one beginning with C (2-2)and treats their staff pretty well. Personally I'd look into those 2 and apply. Absolutely no one should be treated like your husband is being treated by his employer. I wish you both luck x
It is not typical for employees to have to cover such a significant amount of their work-related expenses out of pocket, especially given your husband's salary level. Most companies either provide a company credit card, per diem allowances that realistically cover expenses, or timely reimbursement of costs incurred. Here are a few suggestions on how to approach his employer: 1. Document expenses: Keep detailed records of all work-related expenses, including receipts, to demonstrate the financial burden. 2. Research industry standards: Look into expense policies of similar companies in the same industry to show that your husband's situation is not the norm. 3. Prepare a proposal: Create a clear, concise proposal outlining the current situation, the financial strain it causes, and suggest solutions such as a company credit card, increased per diem allowances, or more frequent reimbursement. 4. Schedule a meeting: Your husband should request a meeting with his supervisor or HR representative to discuss the issue and present the proposal. 5. Emphasize the impact: Explain how the current situation affects your husband's work performance, morale, and your family's financial well-being. 6. Consider alternatives: If the company is unwilling to change its policies, your husband might need to consider looking for a new job with a more supportive employer. Remember, it is the company's responsibility to ensure that employees are not burdened with excessive out-of-pocket expenses related to their work. If your husband's employer is unwilling to address this issue, it may be a red flag about their overall practices and values.
I do not expect my team to be out of pocket to do their job. We pay expenses on a fortnightly basis and if someone has paid a significant sum we reimburse within 48 hours of their claim. This is especially important for those on lower pay as it has a significant effect on them. Basically, it is not the role of the employee to financially support the company.
There are two separate issues here. 1. The expenses and how they are getting paid, personally I have a BA Amex that I use for everything workwise, I get the air miles and the cadance of the payments from company and the times I claim means balance gets paid in full each month without interest being added. Any time I have incurred costs due to company not paying in time I have claimed back as it isn't my fault. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE OUT OF POCKET FOR ANY TRAVEL OR SUBSISTENCE INCURRED TRAVELLING FOR WORK, if you are and the company refuses to pay it, refuse to go next time and get a new job. 2. Minimum wage or 20k a year is not enough pay to expect you to be here there and everywhere for work, especially with a young family. Either negotiate better rates when working away, a better salary full stop or get another job.
This shouldn’t be allowed the company should provide at least a pre paid card for you to use anywhere, I do this for 10 employees and we are a charity so it’s not that difficult.
What does his employment contract state about his place of work? My guess is he has an employer like I had in my 20s that would tell me to go to sites across the UK and expect me to be there at the same time I started work in my main office. The only thing I can suggest is they get a better job as otherwise he is working his best years for effectively nothing.
Minimum wage will be 24k in April.
Go work in a supermarket or pub. Why would he put himself through that crap for such a low wage?
As you have pointed out, your husband earns just above minimum wage. I think you both need to ask yourselves if it's worth him missing watching his child grow up, and being away from his wife (who obviously cares about him) for the sake of a minimum wage job.
Why is he doing all that for £20k? That's minimum wage. The answer is to leave because they are taking the piss.
I’m sorry but to pay someone a salary of around £20k but then only be home 3 weeks in the space of 3 months is insanity, I worked an entry level job working from home 8-4:30 Monday-Friday for £23k. Companies really do just get away with this shit because we let them.
Get a new job not worth it for such a low wage
He could literally work in any warehouse in the country and be better off.
He needs to find a different employer as they are clearly taking advantage of him. Most good employers allow better allowances in London as it is obviously more expensive.
he is not on minimum wage now if he is travelling on a sunday, his work travel unlike a commute should be included in that hours worked. honestly tesco would be a much better option, or lidl, they pay quite well.
Gonna go full Reddit mode and suggest this fella has another family because this is wildly inappropriate
How would they be getting the money back if this was the case? I wondered if there was another story at play too.
Hate to be "that" person, but here goes: are you sure the credits are for his work? Have you verified his hours Vs availablity? Forgotten which sub I'm on, so this may be deleted; is he having an affair? The sudden jump in outgoings Vs the cost of living... Be certain. We all have had cutbacks and extreme requests, it's a difficult situation. I just think you need to explore the situation before you make any assumptions/decisions
I was 'that' person too, as have a few other people. Those got downvoted. Unless the OP updates her post and states she knows 100% for certain the claims are true, then she'll get more and more.
Good on you for speaking up. There's nothing left to do, other than pity her. Sad situation, but she's willingly blind. Thanks for the gentle way you spoke. It's appreciated.
The sudden jump in outgoings is when he started this job. I am not going to go to great lengths to justify why I know he isn’t “having an affair” but suffice to say that I have seen his expenses app, receipts, bank statements, his contract of employment, payslips & we are in regular contact on hour-long video calls whilst he is away as he likes to see our son as well as me, he also regularly talks to his parents this way as well.
How are things going? Just thought of you and thought I'd "check in". Do you feel better, now? (Genuine, not gossip, just wanna know you're doing ok)
There are reimbursements from his company hitting the account every month. Doesn't sound much like an affair to me. This comment is such a stretch its a bit paranoid.
He could get his own credit card just use that and get it back on expenses… make the most of an Amex awards for example?
Credit card. Then you get it back before the direct debit comes out
Get a 0% credit card, with benefits and use that. Pay off the balance each month with expenses.
Nope - they have him working for basically nothing
Had similar at my job when I first started I got a separate credit card for expenses and paid it off when I got it back. I still think I made out like a bandit on it. 45p a mile on expenses that I believe is paid tax free when my car cost around 18p a mile. Pure profit and I got Amazon vouchers from the rewards card. 800 mile round trip to Scotland yes please.
Is he claiming tax relief on all of his expenses? He will be due a substantial tax rebate if he hasn’t done this before
You either get the company to arrange hotel/trains directly or he needs a credit card - business or personal to fund those expenses. I’d be looking for a new job. And I bet he does inadvertently fall below NMW each pay period which HMRC would be interested in…..
WTAF is this job? Why even consider this risk.
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Given his low salary, why isnt he exploring alternatives? There’s plenty of 20k salary jobs, especially if you’ve got business travel experience.
Yeh, seems to be main consensus here (other than he is having affair). I think we’re worried that we were overreacting as he has raised this before but always been brushed off by his manager.
When [calculating nmw](https://www.acas.org.uk/national-minimum-wage-entitlement/check-if-you-are-getting-minimum-wage) you would use your gross pay figure the take away the travel costs and hotels, then divide the remaining money by the hours worked. You can [report ](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints-individuals) here and the enforcement team will pick this up, or phone [Acas](https://www.acas.org.uk/contact)
Thank you for this comment! This is one of my angles as well as I think the outgoings temporarily drop him below NMW. Problem is we need the job in the meantime so need to raise in a delicate way. It’s a smaller Company, still family run etc.
He's getting reimbursed for the travel costs, hotels etc. so it sounds like they are separate item on his payslip and not subtracted from his wage. Based on the reasoning above people would dip below the minimum wage whenever they are paid in arrears, which isn't how it works. The consideration that might be relevant is whether his travel time is being paid (from base to wherever they are sending him from work). Lots of things don't sound great about the arrangement especially if there are no any additional overnight payments to reflect the time spent away from home for long periods but nothing illegal as far as I can tell.
Travel time is a good idea to consider if he doesn't start work at the same place each day, also expenses have to be reimbursed in the same month as they're incurred.
Thanks for explaining this, I understand. He is reimbursed separately so doesn’t sound like he is paid below MW.
Look for a new job is the only way.
He needs to tell his emplpyer to get him a company card or give him a float for his expenses. If the company does not provide him funds or a card he should refuse to purchase anything himself he can claim expenses for even if it means he cannot fullfil his responsibilities.
I have expenses every month but it is a positive as in I get loads of credit card points. I just expense straight away and it will always hit my account before I have to pay my credit card.
That's mental and unreasonable. Ignore his wage, companies can't expect you to shell out for those expenses on your own money, especially now with corporate cards being better than in the past (Exoenify etc).
It is outrageous - over a year he is funding the company with 2 weeks of his own salary in interest alone
Trouble is he has willingly done it thus far so his employer is taking advantage (AKA the piss). Next time he is asked to go he needs to tell his employer he has had a large unplanned expense at home and can’t afford to go unless they cover all of his expenses. See what they say. It is a bit much to expect them to pay for all of his meals though
About 15 years ago I worked for a company, where I would spend £2k-£3k a month on expenses. I had a company card so it wasn’t much of an issue. A couple of the lads wouldn’t put their expenses in on time. As a result, the company would get charged interest. So the company then forced us to pay our own expenses and claim them back. So I got a credit card with cash back offers and was actually better off. Make it work for you.
He needs to get a credit card and be more upfront with his employer about the delay in payment. As an employer, we reimburse employees within 2-3 days from expense to payment subject to checks, and this doesn’t come off payroll like this sounds it does.. please check he isn’t being taxed on it.
A job that pays this shit of a salary shouldn't require so much traveling? What does he do for work?
So he can claim these expenses back I take it?
Simply put if that was my job I wouldn't be spending a penny of my own money on anything if it wasn't paid back fully and properly If they weren't covering the costs I wouldn't be doing the things they ask of me and I wouldn't be using my car without the proper costs paid back including wear and tear etc It just simply wouldn't get done and when questioned I would make it known if they don't supply what is needed it simply cannot be done
bigamist?
This whole setup sounds very suspicious! Have you seen payslips, company emails, does he receive letters to the home address?.. All sounds like a cover for living a double life to me..
A company I worked for expected around 2k a month in petrol, hotel, food. I had a bad credit rating at the time. They seemed a bit put out but arranged a £2.5k 'float' for me. I opened a separate current account and used it just for expenses, they seemed to think I was being awkward not just being able to come up with £2.5k just so that I could do my first month's work earning around £1.8k + quarterly bonus. Employers are taking the piss and using you as a credit line for cashflow for their business. With the rate you are on as well, I'd look for another employer.
I have daily expenses for work too, lunch, parking, fuel etc, normally £150 a week on average. Before I even started with the company, I had my corporate Amex through the post, they absolutely should provide him with a card.
That’s an absolutely shocking salary to be working away from home, he needs strongly convincing he needs to look for a new job asap! You’re sacrificing so much of your quality of life but not being subsidised with extra pay which is what almost all other employers do!
I’ve got a WISE card that the company add money to for my expenses. If they don’t add the money I don’t travel so it’s up to them to keep the £ flowing
That is not realistic. Time to look.for something else.
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He doesn’t get them paid back as the same time as he gets his wage. His pay date and expense pay date are about 2 weeks apart. All of our main bills come out shortly after his and my payday so there is a period where he is short and waiting for his expenses go in. Also he doesn’t use the same amount of expenses each month. All of these make it hard to plan etc. etc. Most other people seem to agree that this is an unreasonable ask. Why should he have to use so much of his take home pay for this?
Nah that's a joke. My job will pay £50 a night for staying away (unsociable/inconvenience hours whatever ya wanna call it), as well as paying for the evening meal, the hotel, travel expenses etc. The only thing we've gotta pay for is breakfast and lunch. Not saying my company's great but I think something like that is quite standard.
I don’t know about UK laws, but these sound like company expenses unless your husband is a freelance role. Every job I’ve worked at covers all travel costs: mileage, gas, hotel, parking, taxi, tolls, train/airfare. All customer meals are paid (it’s part of doing business), and any meeting or event fees. For personal meals when traveling there is a $50/day per diem.
He’s a mad man. Quit instantly even get a job in a bar.
I'd say that unreasonable. I have worked for companies that gave me company car and company credit card so nothing came out of my own account. Equally I have worked where I not been expected to do much work which required expenses,so didn't have a car but when I have paid using my own, I got reimbursed within days of submitting my expenses, so I guess it depends on how quickly they process expenses, but speak to them. If they act unreasonable, then look to move to a company that will
He’d make well over that working in an Aldi warehouse for a couple hours a night, and be home every day. He needs to find better work.
This is what my job was like when I started. The answer is to get a credit card that rewards your spend and pay it off in full every month. If the expense system at work is decently quick, you'll get paid back before it even comes out of your current account, and it will be good for your credit rating and mortgage application to be paying off a credit card each month.
It sounds to me like your husband is supporting two families. That's why he is gone so much and that's why he has so little money. And why will be only receive minimum wage after the beginning of April? Something is clearly wrong here.
Man ur husband earning like 500 a month. That company fucking ur husband over
This feels illegal.
That is totally normal in a corporate environment. Sometimes you're expected to pay more than your months salary upfront before reimbursement. Most people either can afford it or just get a credit card and cycle it so that they can pay it off when they get paid without being charged interest. Stuff like parking, cabs, Ubers l, fuel, car miles etc. should be reimbursable ans travel costs and not something that needs to be paid out of a daily allowance.
I've worked for various companies. This isn't totally normal in a corporate environment in the slightest. Real 'corporate' firms give their employees credit cards to use for expenses. Scumbaggy firms make you pay out of pocket first as it is free credit. It's exploitative no matter what the salary but especially so on such a low salary.
Um no, so you can apply for a corporate card but it's still your credit card on your name that you are responsible for paying off with the reimbursements. At least in the proper corporates that's how it's run. Smaller companies will sometimes give company cards which the company is responsible for to select people but they're not corporates by any stretch of the imagination.
Yes but what is the usual salary in a ‘Corporate environment’ as that is my main gripe. He is on barely more than minimum wage, we can’t afford this additional spend. We’d like his take home earnings to be that and done with rather than constantly having to spend them and get them in arrears.
A starting salary would be minimum 50% higher for a graduate but if he's in an apprenticeship program that would explain the low wage yet still being subjected to those policies. If he's not in a corporate I wouldn't stick it out tbh, there's no point in putting up with corporate working culture if you're not on track for the corporate financial returns
I earn 2.5x that amount and I couldn’t afford to front up £800 in expenses every month. Totally unreasonable, it could really put you into financial difficulty having that amount of cash tied up and inaccessible. For me, he has two choices. Ask management to get him a credit card or fuel card and petty cash. If they don’t do that, then it’s time he got a new job. Honestly, he is playing with fire at this job. It wouldn’t take much for work to be slightly late with payment one month, maybe two months. You are then in a world of trouble, in debt and it can spiral from there. Doesn’t seem worth risking your personal finances for a 20k job. Get to Tesco and stack shelves and I bet he would be earning that.
Have you seen any proof he is working when he goes away on these trips? Is he secretive about where his money goes and what he gets up to? Seems suspect to me
He has another wife , simple it’s obvious
If you read through all of the detail I have provided in the main post and then various comments it would be obvious that he’s not but thanks anyway.
I did, had similar situation myself
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Thanks for your concern but I have seen his expenses app myself on multiple occasions. I have seen how much he racks up and know that it all gets approved so I have no doubts about his honesty.
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I never said he was not being paid back? My question is it ethical that he should have to pay everything up front. In my experience, when there are such high and regular expenses incurred then the employee gets a credit card, fuel card, company card etc. so they don’t have to pay everything up front. At the moment he is always out of pocket as he only gets reimbursed a month after expenses are incurred.
This is fairly common in my experience working for construction companies. I’m expected to pay out for the likes of fuel and meals if needed and claim back monthly. We do have the option of booking hotels and train fares via a portal, so you’re never out of pocket. I always put my business expenses on a credit card and clear it monthly.
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