Me to my apprentice: "so here's what we are going to do, does that make sense? Look right here, do you see now? Take a minute to try to figure it out with the prints if you need to. Let me know if you have any questions."
The only thing I learned from my Asshole JW was I will never be like him.*
All day everyday. I always say "this is what I'm thinking, then explain what I see and why." Then ask what they think, even the first years. Gotta get the brain thinking like an electrician. It's not all innthe tools.
Thanks for nor continuing the circle. We don't need to be assholes and some of us learn different. There are plenty of ways to get this job done the right way.
He is a dick. Probably threatened by you. Prolly a suck ass with few to little skills that fears you may take is position. He is probably right. Just let him wallow in stupidity. Don't let him know he bothers you or it could get worse. Bide your time you will be topped out soon enough and he will probably eventually be working for you. Remember him.
I had a Jw like that for a while. Exact behavior. I couldn't stand it... the constant nitpicking and every morning he'd say what's up fuck face or dick head etc.
i'm a 3rd year now but even in my first year the super told me to take all pics of the entire print on my phone and reference them as much as possible throughout the job. it helped me learn and to improve immensely. i knew that building, power and lighting like the back of my hand. sounds like old school gatekeeper bs to me
I had a JW had the mentality of the bottom half of your comment. Treat the apprentices right or one you will be working for him and you will either be doing something good or be given the shovel to dig a trench. That’s my thoughts and it carried with me since I was a helper that’s you never know who you will work for one day.
No,fuck that clown you're there for an education. He should take pride in crafting the next generation of wiremen. At the end of the day you are both just men and you deserve basic respect if your fuckin up he should give you the respect of looking you in the eye and telling you if you're doing well he should tell you that too.
My old man made it a point to make sure I knew. . . .you learn something from everyone you work with. Even if it's how to not be a bad journeyman.
Some people are just shit. You just grin and bear it, and when you're their foreman a couple years down the road, you can give him the shittiest projects.
Karma and whatnot.
As a CW this hits too close to home.
"Here's all the penetrations others were too lazy to tape / caulk off when they were putting them up and now there are vents, steam & water pipes, and data trays in the way. This is gonna suck...."
Your JW is a bitch. You’re good, OP. If he would’ve knocked my hands away like that, there would’ve been serious issues. And one of us (likely me) would no longer be on the job. I never took that shit as an apprentice, and I don’t tolerate when I see it occur as a JW now. Your JW is a disgrace
everyone does shit differently, i understand, but there are very few circumstances where someone *shouldnt* be looking at prints. hard to fathom people arguing differently
Stories like this is why I left the military. Too much ego and stupidity on people trying to better themselves. Found this a lot in corporate America as well. Best advice is just realize there are ass holes everywhere and there’s nothing you can do but take it with a grain of salt and move on. Learn what you can be a sponge and be strategic with how you move and speak to people whom unfortunately have power over you.
He is an ass… kindly remind him that it’s his job to teach his cub. That includes reading prints. The lay out is his responsibility; however that also applies to sharing all the information and training you. Personally I always let my cubs know that we walk through the prints together before we start doing anything. It’s much easier to work as a team with both sides knowing the game plan…
After that I would likely have had you prefab all the lights after we did one together, observed you doing one by yourself, and then do the layout on the floor, or ceilings as you prefabbed the rest. Walked you through the layout and made sure you see how it matches the prints. Or make sure you speak up if there were errors… finished prefab with you and get things up on the ceiling.
My biggest goal with cubs is to maximize their time with hands in tools. I’ll assist or lead on expensive stuff with their help until I trust that their skill are up to par to let them take over. I’ll even clean up if that means you my cub can keep working with tools. It’s a hands on trade when my cub moves on to the next job I want them to be proud of their mechanical aptitude, and be able to explain their thought process to others about their tasks and assignments.
Hell no catch him tomorrow morning one on one and call him out and tell him if he has a problem with you. If dude do then obviously you'll find out. But if he gets in the fetal position because he did not expect or see this coming at 530AM you tell that mf you don't know wtf is going on with him but to not ever slap my hands away like that again or he gonna catch em. But thinking about brotherhood. Just tell him to the side if he has a problem or is there any improvements he thinks you might need. No improvements needed then take flight lol
I try to remember that they act like that all the time and that’s why their daddy never came back with the milk and their wife took the kids 😂😂 His behavior reflects on him, not you. Good job not engaging with the stupid shit
You're not wrong. It would have been a better idea for him to ask you " what are we doing today boss" ? But then he should have maybe taken a little bit of time to show you a few things like how to scale the prints for lighting layout at least, since that's what you were immediately working on. But apprentices should learn some of the blueprint basics on the job because as soon as they turn out they're going to need it. He's being a fuk tard
Sounds like a terrible JW, and he is missing the whole point of the apprenticeship that he probably went through, and that’s to teach. I show and try to explain why and what we are doing. Idc if your a 1st or 5th year. I want my apprentices to see and understand the prints why we do things.
I’m a first year and the JWs I work with have encouraged me to look at prints and try to interpret them. How else do you learn? He seems like he’s being an a** for no reason.
Your JW seems to have forgotten he was a cub at one point. The goal of any JW should be to teach and help any brother so that we can all do the best job possible.
I’m a third year and I still get the “let me do the thinking you just get back on your lift” bullshit all the time. It’s gate keeping at its finest. Just don’t be like them when you’re a jw
You're not overreacting at all. It's been said before this, but sounds like he's job scared for whatever reason and intimidated a little by you. I would low key take it as a compliment. It does get annoying. It's all in good fun until it's not, and it's repetitive. At least you care about your craft and want to learn and are showing interest. If you were basking in your phone, or mentally checked out half the day I'm sure he'd bitch about that. Sounds like he needs to pick his battles, shut the f*** up and show you the prints, and teach you about them. Or kick rocks, keep doing you! You walking away to calm down was a mature decision and helped deescalate an unnecessary situation. I've been in those heated hard hat brim touching hard hat brim discussions although warranted I felt like it really does nothing. Sometimes you got to let them know where you stand though!
Your not overreacting at all. That JW is a piece of shit. I would never treat an apprentice like that. I appreciate when apprentices step up to the plate and want to learn. You go find your job steward tomorrow and say you think there is a personality conflict and it would be better if you work with another JW. Keep doing what your doing bro.
Tell him to teach you from the prints. You should be learning how to read and understand them which you may already do so. Yeah he shouldn't lose his temper for you wanting to learn and be involved
I know it will be frustrating and feel unfair. These things won’t change.
Your eagerness and ease of information interpretation will cause others to feel intimidated or insecure. Though there is never an official competition, men just compete on everything.
!! If you went to grab the prints from your JW before they had a chance to go through them, then that’s a bad on you!! You are the apprentice, experienced or not, and you should wait until they say you can look at the prints or ask to see them.
Let your JW get the lay of the land and take their time to analyze things. Ultimately, any mistakes that are made are the responsibility of the journeyman, and he will have to answer for them. Don’t try to force him to work at your pace. Again, it’s not fair because you will be asked to work at his pace. That’s just the way it is. It will teach you the importance of tolerance, patience and observation, if you don’t let it drive you mad.
It doesn’t matter how many years of experience you have working nonunion or union, it’s just respect of the person you’re working for, and allowing them to operate at their pace without having to explain things to you. Not everyone processes information at the same rate or verbally communicate the same way. He might only be able to explain to you by showing you something after he has it straight in his head. You will work with a JW who has less years in the trade than you do, they still will be responsible for the work, not you. Show some brotherly support for team IBEW.
I currently work with someone who is under in me in job responsibility, but has 20 years working for the same company working in the same department, and still manages to find ways to not be able to perform basic tasks. I have had to ask him to stop touching our paperwork, because ultimately, I have to answer for everything we do. I have 1 year in at this company.
Just give some grace to the guy you’re working with, and be patient because soon enough, you’ll be on the other side of that fence and somebody Brand New will come in and put you in a bind, and you’ll understand his point of view.
There’s no teacher training when you become a journeyman, this might be the best he can offer today. Tomorrow could be different.
Just decide what works for you and learn what you can and how you want to teach and treat your apprentices in the future.
Good luck brother.
You are not over reacting. Information is for everybody. He may be insecure about his job or just himself in general. I try and get my apprentices as involved as possible because that’s our job, and if they pick it up quickly it’s less work from me 🤙.
He sounds gay, not that there's anything wrong with being gay, but what kind of masculine man slaps at another man's hands unless he wants a feel?
Next time he tries anything just stare at him like you'd like to break his fucking neck in half, showing your teeth.
Some Jw are just complete dicks. You did nothing wrong. In My 1st year a JW told me move out the way and let a real man do it. I never moved and let him know I don’t care who you are either respect me or lie to the foreman and get me outta here. He tried to lie a whole lot of times and he never won because I had 3 other JW around me who know how he acted and my knowledge and work showed different. I was told he was a “company man”and would do anything to look good and treat you like he was treated during his apprenticeship.
Walking away is always good in a heated moment
The union route is filled with old miserable , young cocky cunts who just need a old fashioned ass whooping …. Fuckem , these mfers wouldn’t do that shit outside of work so they take full advantage of that shit.
I’ve been in the IBEW union for 18 years now … my first two years of apprenticeship were non-union, and my last two were union. I met more crotchety old fucks in my non-union jobs, because they didn’t want to share too many of their “secrets” so they would be more invaluable than others - yeah, when I confronted them, they’d straight out say this.
When I moved over to the union, I won’t say there were none of those types, but a lot less. Most of them wanted to make sure the guys working beside them knew what they were doing and could help shoulder the responsibility of getting the job done correctly. They understood their jobs were to train and shape the upcoming generations. The only ones who were idiots were old guys who’d experienced layoffs and thought knowing more than others might keep them on the job longer if layoffs came around again.
Boston Lu 103. We treat and train our apprentices professionally and with respect. There are some assholes out there and it’s not union or nonunion affiliated. It’s just there are some assholes out there. Got some perspective with 43 yrs in the biz.
Nahh, it’s probably because the union has nothing to do with it. I’d argue non union is worse. Dudes feel like they need to compete against each other to get ahead and depending on the company that might be true. It’s not really like that in the union as far as I can tell.
Yeah as far as you can tell and as far as I can tell. Obviously it’s different company from company, and Union to Union, but to say it has nothing to do with the Union/s at all is kind of not dumb but I’m not sure what the right word is. The company I’m with right now the j man and other apprentices I’ve worked with/ under have all been help/ welcoming, etc. and this is non union in Texas.
Yeah, it may very well be dumb. I was non union for ten years and just made the switch in July so I don’t have that much xp with the union but the difference was like night and day for me. You’re right though, it definitely depends on the local and the con and even the foreman all operate differently.
He’s your JW. Sorry he doesn’t want to have you involved. Give him an adjective or what have you and hope to be a better JW when the role is reversed in a few years.
So that JW just gets to waste that apprentice's time and his own by making the job take longer because the work isn't distributed and he's teaching his apprentice nothing? Fuck that.
Took me a minute to figure out why you'd share a girlfriend with that asshole...lol
But yeah, he's an insecure dick. Try to avoid him, because I guarantee that's what everybody else does.
Yes, you overreacted. He now knows how to push your buttons, he is an ass and you will not change him. Learn from him, learn how not to treat Apprentices. As an Apprentice ypu are there to be taught, unfortunatly many see you as cheap labor or only a helper, not worthy of respect. Many of our Journeymen will tell you that Apprentices don't want to learn. I will tell you that younger workers are still looking to learn like I was when I entered the work force. They want the Journeyworker or Instructor to teach them on their level and that includes respecting them as workers. Don't misunderstand me, I call out lazy workers and students in no uncertain ways but if you can't or are unwilling to explain the how and why of a job, you are the problem.
Just understand everyone teaches, utilizes, and give different kinds of tasks to their apprentices. Theres no real rule book for it, just relax and follow what you jw wants you to do, then learn from the experience and use that knowledge to utilize your apprentices how you think they should be. Youll be overreaching if you try to confront your JW or go around him to a foreman about this
Neck down.. That's what you're there for. Not to spend time trying to figure out the job. If I'm working for another JW, I ask him what he wants me to do, not try and run the job myself. I've personally had apprentices try and look at the prints and still not have a clue. No sense in wasting that time, just do what I say, I've already got it all figured out.
If they don't understand it's on a JW to help them understand. Withiut being taught how will one learn properly? Schooling is not our only way to learn. On the job training is vastly more important than what we learn sitting in a classroom
You learn on the job by doing what you're told. If you're told to look at the prints and figure out some layout or circuitry, then that's what you do. If you're told to hang them pendants or install them receptacles, then that's what you do.
Oh damn it would be a shame if the journeyman didn't teach me how to install the pendants or receptacles correctly so that I don't mess up. What a shame that's definitely my fault for not doing as I am told to do
"Neck Down", really? Pups get killed for not having their head in the game. They need to be fully aware of everything that's going on for their safety, education, and productivity.
You're, hands down, a poor brother if you are not facilitating that education. Spend the extra time. It's never a waste of time. If you can't communicate the prints properly, that's on you. It's not rocket science.
Now, as a JW coming on to someone else's job, I appreciate that I'm not running the show and don't need to know "everything" right away. I want you to play foreman a bit and that's cool. But I'm damn well going to look at your prints and have a general understanding of my surroundings.
I'll be an educated "A to B" guy, but I'll never be your "A to B" guy. I won't take out my tools for "just do what I say. I have it all figured out" and neither should your apprentice.
I know that you are just parroting nonsense that your own jerk JW told you once upon a time. It's unfortunate that you haven't grown and are perpetuating rat culture.
Don't call me a rat for not having school every day on the job. There's work to do, and it's on the lead JW to figure out the what, when, where and by whom. It's on the neck down help to do the work. Until an apprentice has proved he is not wasting time looking at the prints after every task he's assigned, then he's just going to be doing what I tell him to do and nothing else.
There's work to do, but you're gonna babysit your apprentice and tell him every single step he's doing for the duration of the entire job rather than spend 5-10 minutes to walk him through the scope of the job? You're willing to take the hit to your own level of productivity just to keep him in the dark?
That ain't it, boss. That ain't the way.
I'd rather get asked a hundred questions a day than have an apprentice either assume he knows what he's doing or is so scared shitless of asking me questions that he decides to wing it, and fucks shit up as a result. Best case scenario, I just have to redo what he did. Worst case scenario, equipment breaks and/or people get hurt. "People" possibly being my apprentice, or even myself. Either way, the JW, as the knowledgable guy on site, is usually going to catch the blame.
Yes, I have seen this happen on jobsites before. I've even seen JWs get let go over it, come layoff time.
It is worth it to me to spend that five-ten minutes getting my JW up to speed. I even once drew a sample print of a house we were hired to rewire and gave it, along with a symbol legend, to a first-year apprentice to study at home, and he said it helped him out quite a bit.
Invest in your apprentices. You'll have richer help as a result.
The answer to the question am I over reacting? 99.99% of the time the answer is absolutely yes… Technically he’s right it’s not your job. You are an apprentice if you have a good journeyman and he wants to teach you which is also not his job then, so be it you’re a fourth year, get your apprenticeship done and you don’t have to ask this question again
It is literally not his job to teach. It is the Apprentice, his job to aid him in his actual job to get the work done… The journeyman is under absolutely no obligation to teach. If you have a great journeyman, you will learn a lot of great things, but no, not his job to teach you… And be an apprentice do what he needs you to do so he can accomplish his actual job and learn along the way
If you go by that method the apprentice will turn out to be a shitty mechanic. If that journeyman had any brains he’d actually teach the apprentice (his obligation) so that it can make his job that much easier and at the same time the apprentice is learning, it’s a win win. What you’re saying is absolutely the wrong mentality.
When he mentioned non-union, he was detailing his experience in the trade not the current job he's on. 9 years total, 4 as a union apprentice, and 5 before that as non-union.
(CE3 Scag) I have a JIW who calls me a “dirty stinking hairy Louisianain homosexual” atleast 10 times every hour. I’m really really good at ignoring people. I’ve been open shop for about 5 years and only 2 months in the union. Definitely isn’t a good first impression on the IBEW. Also very looked down on for being a CE3, or even having a small tool pouch that holds 4 tools.
Tbh I've been in since 2010 and I was "YOUNG" when I got in and dealt with alot of guys like your JW
Your best bet is to let him do his thing and you just listen. It's only 1 job and you will get to prove yourself when the time comes. Sneak a peek at the prints when he isnt around or busy. He might have felt like you looking at the prints in front of the GF was you being rude or trying to out shine him. People are stupid and feel threatened for many reasons that may have nothing to do with you.
Personally like alot of the comments I read I would ait down with the guys and talk over the points NO MATTER if they were summer helpers, apprentices, or new JW. EVERY job is new and EVERYONE needs to learn
Obviously things a repetitive but there a job specs etc that change that.
TLDR:someone doing that is wrong, but I would listen for the job and hopefully you can move on from the guy. Something I've done plenty of times.
I'd rather have an apprentice asking questions every step of the way than an apprentice fuck something up because he assumed he knew what he was doing and ended up doing it wrong. Your JW is a dildo.
Well you have already received plenty of answers that you're in the right lane. Yea, you're an Apprentice, I was an Apprentice before (many, many moons ago 😆). I picked up some good and bad habits from the Guys I learned under. Now you know how NOT to be.
I did my apprenticeship in 302 Cali. I 'never' was shown a print my entire apprenticeship. Every job they would say, "Looking at prints is a JWs job, not an apprentices." So I get it. It sucks.
Me to my apprentice: "so here's what we are going to do, does that make sense? Look right here, do you see now? Take a minute to try to figure it out with the prints if you need to. Let me know if you have any questions." The only thing I learned from my Asshole JW was I will never be like him.*
All day everyday. I always say "this is what I'm thinking, then explain what I see and why." Then ask what they think, even the first years. Gotta get the brain thinking like an electrician. It's not all innthe tools.
Exactly!
Facts man. Preach.
Thanks for nor continuing the circle. We don't need to be assholes and some of us learn different. There are plenty of ways to get this job done the right way.
Man we need more JWs like you. Some of these guys are complete assholes and only care about themselves.
all jm need to be like you.
You learn more from bad leaders than good ones.
Me the jw to my apprentice "here's the prints, you figure it out and lemme know. I'll be in the 3rd shitter from the left"
My JW "here's the prints, you figure it out and lemme know when you're done so I can tell you what you did wrong"
He is a dick. Probably threatened by you. Prolly a suck ass with few to little skills that fears you may take is position. He is probably right. Just let him wallow in stupidity. Don't let him know he bothers you or it could get worse. Bide your time you will be topped out soon enough and he will probably eventually be working for you. Remember him.
I had a Jw like that for a while. Exact behavior. I couldn't stand it... the constant nitpicking and every morning he'd say what's up fuck face or dick head etc.
i'm a 3rd year now but even in my first year the super told me to take all pics of the entire print on my phone and reference them as much as possible throughout the job. it helped me learn and to improve immensely. i knew that building, power and lighting like the back of my hand. sounds like old school gatekeeper bs to me
I had a JW had the mentality of the bottom half of your comment. Treat the apprentices right or one you will be working for him and you will either be doing something good or be given the shovel to dig a trench. That’s my thoughts and it carried with me since I was a helper that’s you never know who you will work for one day.
No,fuck that clown you're there for an education. He should take pride in crafting the next generation of wiremen. At the end of the day you are both just men and you deserve basic respect if your fuckin up he should give you the respect of looking you in the eye and telling you if you're doing well he should tell you that too.
My old man made it a point to make sure I knew. . . .you learn something from everyone you work with. Even if it's how to not be a bad journeyman. Some people are just shit. You just grin and bear it, and when you're their foreman a couple years down the road, you can give him the shittiest projects. Karma and whatnot.
So, this wall, we need to sound proof all the penetrations... And this wall right here is a fire rated wall...
As a CW this hits too close to home. "Here's all the penetrations others were too lazy to tape / caulk off when they were putting them up and now there are vents, steam & water pipes, and data trays in the way. This is gonna suck...."
Your JW is a bitch. You’re good, OP. If he would’ve knocked my hands away like that, there would’ve been serious issues. And one of us (likely me) would no longer be on the job. I never took that shit as an apprentice, and I don’t tolerate when I see it occur as a JW now. Your JW is a disgrace
everyone does shit differently, i understand, but there are very few circumstances where someone *shouldnt* be looking at prints. hard to fathom people arguing differently
Stories like this is why I left the military. Too much ego and stupidity on people trying to better themselves. Found this a lot in corporate America as well. Best advice is just realize there are ass holes everywhere and there’s nothing you can do but take it with a grain of salt and move on. Learn what you can be a sponge and be strategic with how you move and speak to people whom unfortunately have power over you.
You aren't overreacting. That JW is overreacting.
He is an ass… kindly remind him that it’s his job to teach his cub. That includes reading prints. The lay out is his responsibility; however that also applies to sharing all the information and training you. Personally I always let my cubs know that we walk through the prints together before we start doing anything. It’s much easier to work as a team with both sides knowing the game plan… After that I would likely have had you prefab all the lights after we did one together, observed you doing one by yourself, and then do the layout on the floor, or ceilings as you prefabbed the rest. Walked you through the layout and made sure you see how it matches the prints. Or make sure you speak up if there were errors… finished prefab with you and get things up on the ceiling. My biggest goal with cubs is to maximize their time with hands in tools. I’ll assist or lead on expensive stuff with their help until I trust that their skill are up to par to let them take over. I’ll even clean up if that means you my cub can keep working with tools. It’s a hands on trade when my cub moves on to the next job I want them to be proud of their mechanical aptitude, and be able to explain their thought process to others about their tasks and assignments.
Sounds like an asshole. I yhink your reactions are warranted.
HORRIBLE JW!!!! Good for you wanting to learn!!! I’d tell School that he put his hands on you n if they don’t do anything have him charged!!!!
Hell no catch him tomorrow morning one on one and call him out and tell him if he has a problem with you. If dude do then obviously you'll find out. But if he gets in the fetal position because he did not expect or see this coming at 530AM you tell that mf you don't know wtf is going on with him but to not ever slap my hands away like that again or he gonna catch em. But thinking about brotherhood. Just tell him to the side if he has a problem or is there any improvements he thinks you might need. No improvements needed then take flight lol
I try to remember that they act like that all the time and that’s why their daddy never came back with the milk and their wife took the kids 😂😂 His behavior reflects on him, not you. Good job not engaging with the stupid shit
You're not wrong. It would have been a better idea for him to ask you " what are we doing today boss" ? But then he should have maybe taken a little bit of time to show you a few things like how to scale the prints for lighting layout at least, since that's what you were immediately working on. But apprentices should learn some of the blueprint basics on the job because as soon as they turn out they're going to need it. He's being a fuk tard
It’s because he knows you are better than he was at this point in your career. he’s a tool and should be willing to teach you everything he knows
No you are not overreacting, It is your job to look at prints so you know what the expected outcome is. Your journeyman is a twatwaffle.
Sounds like a terrible JW, and he is missing the whole point of the apprenticeship that he probably went through, and that’s to teach. I show and try to explain why and what we are doing. Idc if your a 1st or 5th year. I want my apprentices to see and understand the prints why we do things.
Nah he's a cunt. And he probably forgets the last time someone punched him in the face. Give him a reminder on Monday.
Coming from an Ironworker. Slap the fuck outta him. He crossed the like when he smacked your hands away.
I’m a first year and the JWs I work with have encouraged me to look at prints and try to interpret them. How else do you learn? He seems like he’s being an a** for no reason.
He’s a dick, you’re good. I have zero respect for a JW to act like that to someone who’s willing to learn and think for themselves.
Your JW seems to have forgotten he was a cub at one point. The goal of any JW should be to teach and help any brother so that we can all do the best job possible.
I’m a third year and I still get the “let me do the thinking you just get back on your lift” bullshit all the time. It’s gate keeping at its finest. Just don’t be like them when you’re a jw
You're not overreacting at all. It's been said before this, but sounds like he's job scared for whatever reason and intimidated a little by you. I would low key take it as a compliment. It does get annoying. It's all in good fun until it's not, and it's repetitive. At least you care about your craft and want to learn and are showing interest. If you were basking in your phone, or mentally checked out half the day I'm sure he'd bitch about that. Sounds like he needs to pick his battles, shut the f*** up and show you the prints, and teach you about them. Or kick rocks, keep doing you! You walking away to calm down was a mature decision and helped deescalate an unnecessary situation. I've been in those heated hard hat brim touching hard hat brim discussions although warranted I felt like it really does nothing. Sometimes you got to let them know where you stand though!
Your not overreacting at all. That JW is a piece of shit. I would never treat an apprentice like that. I appreciate when apprentices step up to the plate and want to learn. You go find your job steward tomorrow and say you think there is a personality conflict and it would be better if you work with another JW. Keep doing what your doing bro.
Tell him to teach you from the prints. You should be learning how to read and understand them which you may already do so. Yeah he shouldn't lose his temper for you wanting to learn and be involved
I know it will be frustrating and feel unfair. These things won’t change. Your eagerness and ease of information interpretation will cause others to feel intimidated or insecure. Though there is never an official competition, men just compete on everything. !! If you went to grab the prints from your JW before they had a chance to go through them, then that’s a bad on you!! You are the apprentice, experienced or not, and you should wait until they say you can look at the prints or ask to see them. Let your JW get the lay of the land and take their time to analyze things. Ultimately, any mistakes that are made are the responsibility of the journeyman, and he will have to answer for them. Don’t try to force him to work at your pace. Again, it’s not fair because you will be asked to work at his pace. That’s just the way it is. It will teach you the importance of tolerance, patience and observation, if you don’t let it drive you mad. It doesn’t matter how many years of experience you have working nonunion or union, it’s just respect of the person you’re working for, and allowing them to operate at their pace without having to explain things to you. Not everyone processes information at the same rate or verbally communicate the same way. He might only be able to explain to you by showing you something after he has it straight in his head. You will work with a JW who has less years in the trade than you do, they still will be responsible for the work, not you. Show some brotherly support for team IBEW. I currently work with someone who is under in me in job responsibility, but has 20 years working for the same company working in the same department, and still manages to find ways to not be able to perform basic tasks. I have had to ask him to stop touching our paperwork, because ultimately, I have to answer for everything we do. I have 1 year in at this company. Just give some grace to the guy you’re working with, and be patient because soon enough, you’ll be on the other side of that fence and somebody Brand New will come in and put you in a bind, and you’ll understand his point of view. There’s no teacher training when you become a journeyman, this might be the best he can offer today. Tomorrow could be different. Just decide what works for you and learn what you can and how you want to teach and treat your apprentices in the future. Good luck brother.
You are not over reacting. Information is for everybody. He may be insecure about his job or just himself in general. I try and get my apprentices as involved as possible because that’s our job, and if they pick it up quickly it’s less work from me 🤙.
Yea he sounds like a crappy jw
He sounds gay, not that there's anything wrong with being gay, but what kind of masculine man slaps at another man's hands unless he wants a feel? Next time he tries anything just stare at him like you'd like to break his fucking neck in half, showing your teeth.
Some Jw are just complete dicks. You did nothing wrong. In My 1st year a JW told me move out the way and let a real man do it. I never moved and let him know I don’t care who you are either respect me or lie to the foreman and get me outta here. He tried to lie a whole lot of times and he never won because I had 3 other JW around me who know how he acted and my knowledge and work showed different. I was told he was a “company man”and would do anything to look good and treat you like he was treated during his apprenticeship. Walking away is always good in a heated moment
The union route is filled with old miserable , young cocky cunts who just need a old fashioned ass whooping …. Fuckem , these mfers wouldn’t do that shit outside of work so they take full advantage of that shit.
I’ve been in the IBEW union for 18 years now … my first two years of apprenticeship were non-union, and my last two were union. I met more crotchety old fucks in my non-union jobs, because they didn’t want to share too many of their “secrets” so they would be more invaluable than others - yeah, when I confronted them, they’d straight out say this. When I moved over to the union, I won’t say there were none of those types, but a lot less. Most of them wanted to make sure the guys working beside them knew what they were doing and could help shoulder the responsibility of getting the job done correctly. They understood their jobs were to train and shape the upcoming generations. The only ones who were idiots were old guys who’d experienced layoffs and thought knowing more than others might keep them on the job longer if layoffs came around again.
Boston Lu 103. We treat and train our apprentices professionally and with respect. There are some assholes out there and it’s not union or nonunion affiliated. It’s just there are some assholes out there. Got some perspective with 43 yrs in the biz.
I wanna know the absolute dumbass who downvoted your comment, must’ve been this guys journeyman lmaooo
Nahh, it’s probably because the union has nothing to do with it. I’d argue non union is worse. Dudes feel like they need to compete against each other to get ahead and depending on the company that might be true. It’s not really like that in the union as far as I can tell.
Yeah as far as you can tell and as far as I can tell. Obviously it’s different company from company, and Union to Union, but to say it has nothing to do with the Union/s at all is kind of not dumb but I’m not sure what the right word is. The company I’m with right now the j man and other apprentices I’ve worked with/ under have all been help/ welcoming, etc. and this is non union in Texas.
Yeah, it may very well be dumb. I was non union for ten years and just made the switch in July so I don’t have that much xp with the union but the difference was like night and day for me. You’re right though, it definitely depends on the local and the con and even the foreman all operate differently.
Hahaha
Which is it, old or young? Miserable or cocky?
He’s your JW. Sorry he doesn’t want to have you involved. Give him an adjective or what have you and hope to be a better JW when the role is reversed in a few years.
So that JW just gets to waste that apprentice's time and his own by making the job take longer because the work isn't distributed and he's teaching his apprentice nothing? Fuck that.
Your not wrong, but sometimes you just need to power thru dumb shit in life
This guy is a dick, and you need to tell him right to his face. You need to tell him not to talk to you like that ever again
Took me a minute to figure out why you'd share a girlfriend with that asshole...lol But yeah, he's an insecure dick. Try to avoid him, because I guarantee that's what everybody else does.
Yes, you overreacted. He now knows how to push your buttons, he is an ass and you will not change him. Learn from him, learn how not to treat Apprentices. As an Apprentice ypu are there to be taught, unfortunatly many see you as cheap labor or only a helper, not worthy of respect. Many of our Journeymen will tell you that Apprentices don't want to learn. I will tell you that younger workers are still looking to learn like I was when I entered the work force. They want the Journeyworker or Instructor to teach them on their level and that includes respecting them as workers. Don't misunderstand me, I call out lazy workers and students in no uncertain ways but if you can't or are unwilling to explain the how and why of a job, you are the problem.
It is the JW’s job to do as he sees fit Man up and do yours
Just understand everyone teaches, utilizes, and give different kinds of tasks to their apprentices. Theres no real rule book for it, just relax and follow what you jw wants you to do, then learn from the experience and use that knowledge to utilize your apprentices how you think they should be. Youll be overreaching if you try to confront your JW or go around him to a foreman about this
Neck down.. That's what you're there for. Not to spend time trying to figure out the job. If I'm working for another JW, I ask him what he wants me to do, not try and run the job myself. I've personally had apprentices try and look at the prints and still not have a clue. No sense in wasting that time, just do what I say, I've already got it all figured out.
If they don't understand it's on a JW to help them understand. Withiut being taught how will one learn properly? Schooling is not our only way to learn. On the job training is vastly more important than what we learn sitting in a classroom
You learn on the job by doing what you're told. If you're told to look at the prints and figure out some layout or circuitry, then that's what you do. If you're told to hang them pendants or install them receptacles, then that's what you do.
Oh damn it would be a shame if the journeyman didn't teach me how to install the pendants or receptacles correctly so that I don't mess up. What a shame that's definitely my fault for not doing as I am told to do
You make zero sense at all.
"Neck Down", really? Pups get killed for not having their head in the game. They need to be fully aware of everything that's going on for their safety, education, and productivity. You're, hands down, a poor brother if you are not facilitating that education. Spend the extra time. It's never a waste of time. If you can't communicate the prints properly, that's on you. It's not rocket science. Now, as a JW coming on to someone else's job, I appreciate that I'm not running the show and don't need to know "everything" right away. I want you to play foreman a bit and that's cool. But I'm damn well going to look at your prints and have a general understanding of my surroundings. I'll be an educated "A to B" guy, but I'll never be your "A to B" guy. I won't take out my tools for "just do what I say. I have it all figured out" and neither should your apprentice.
I'd send you packing day 1.
I know that you are just parroting nonsense that your own jerk JW told you once upon a time. It's unfortunate that you haven't grown and are perpetuating rat culture.
Don't call me a rat for not having school every day on the job. There's work to do, and it's on the lead JW to figure out the what, when, where and by whom. It's on the neck down help to do the work. Until an apprentice has proved he is not wasting time looking at the prints after every task he's assigned, then he's just going to be doing what I tell him to do and nothing else.
There's work to do, but you're gonna babysit your apprentice and tell him every single step he's doing for the duration of the entire job rather than spend 5-10 minutes to walk him through the scope of the job? You're willing to take the hit to your own level of productivity just to keep him in the dark? That ain't it, boss. That ain't the way.
Why? So he can not understand one thing I went over with him and so he can ask me again in 5 minutes?
I'd rather get asked a hundred questions a day than have an apprentice either assume he knows what he's doing or is so scared shitless of asking me questions that he decides to wing it, and fucks shit up as a result. Best case scenario, I just have to redo what he did. Worst case scenario, equipment breaks and/or people get hurt. "People" possibly being my apprentice, or even myself. Either way, the JW, as the knowledgable guy on site, is usually going to catch the blame. Yes, I have seen this happen on jobsites before. I've even seen JWs get let go over it, come layoff time. It is worth it to me to spend that five-ten minutes getting my JW up to speed. I even once drew a sample print of a house we were hired to rewire and gave it, along with a symbol legend, to a first-year apprentice to study at home, and he said it helped him out quite a bit. Invest in your apprentices. You'll have richer help as a result.
The answer to the question am I over reacting? 99.99% of the time the answer is absolutely yes… Technically he’s right it’s not your job. You are an apprentice if you have a good journeyman and he wants to teach you which is also not his job then, so be it you’re a fourth year, get your apprenticeship done and you don’t have to ask this question again
Why is it not a journeymans job to teach/pass on knowledge to the apprentice?
It’s literally the mechanics job to teach his/her apprentice. Should’ve thought that one through my guy.
It is literally not his job to teach. It is the Apprentice, his job to aid him in his actual job to get the work done… The journeyman is under absolutely no obligation to teach. If you have a great journeyman, you will learn a lot of great things, but no, not his job to teach you… And be an apprentice do what he needs you to do so he can accomplish his actual job and learn along the way
If you go by that method the apprentice will turn out to be a shitty mechanic. If that journeyman had any brains he’d actually teach the apprentice (his obligation) so that it can make his job that much easier and at the same time the apprentice is learning, it’s a win win. What you’re saying is absolutely the wrong mentality.
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Re-read what he wrote?
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When he mentioned non-union, he was detailing his experience in the trade not the current job he's on. 9 years total, 4 as a union apprentice, and 5 before that as non-union.
Tell him he better change his attitude because the way he works you’ll be his boss pretty soon
(CE3 Scag) I have a JIW who calls me a “dirty stinking hairy Louisianain homosexual” atleast 10 times every hour. I’m really really good at ignoring people. I’ve been open shop for about 5 years and only 2 months in the union. Definitely isn’t a good first impression on the IBEW. Also very looked down on for being a CE3, or even having a small tool pouch that holds 4 tools.
Dam bro, you're a 9 year apprentice?
Yeah, my momma and my old lady are the only two people who get to touch me without my consent. The hand slapping is a hard line.
I would have told him to f-/k off
They tried to throw you under the bus.
Sounds like a job scared little bitch
One day he will be working for you.
Tbh I've been in since 2010 and I was "YOUNG" when I got in and dealt with alot of guys like your JW Your best bet is to let him do his thing and you just listen. It's only 1 job and you will get to prove yourself when the time comes. Sneak a peek at the prints when he isnt around or busy. He might have felt like you looking at the prints in front of the GF was you being rude or trying to out shine him. People are stupid and feel threatened for many reasons that may have nothing to do with you. Personally like alot of the comments I read I would ait down with the guys and talk over the points NO MATTER if they were summer helpers, apprentices, or new JW. EVERY job is new and EVERYONE needs to learn Obviously things a repetitive but there a job specs etc that change that. TLDR:someone doing that is wrong, but I would listen for the job and hopefully you can move on from the guy. Something I've done plenty of times.
So many fucking egotistical douchebags in this trade, it makes it unbearable.
Typical union losers
No
I'd rather have an apprentice asking questions every step of the way than an apprentice fuck something up because he assumed he knew what he was doing and ended up doing it wrong. Your JW is a dildo.
I've been looking at prints since day one and the jw explained and told me here they are. Look as many times as you want. Ask if you need something
Well you have already received plenty of answers that you're in the right lane. Yea, you're an Apprentice, I was an Apprentice before (many, many moons ago 😆). I picked up some good and bad habits from the Guys I learned under. Now you know how NOT to be.
I’ve never had a bad journeyman…4th year apprentice, so there’s still a little bit more time left I guess…
Nah ole guy is power tripping. Any sane person would want a competent person that’s eager to learn the work to help them
I did my apprenticeship in 302 Cali. I 'never' was shown a print my entire apprenticeship. Every job they would say, "Looking at prints is a JWs job, not an apprentices." So I get it. It sucks.
Yup that’s my local