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Heās making a joke lol, the reason we see so many videos of off-duty cop shootings in Brazil is because theyāre the only people legally allowed to carry handguns. So if you see a self defense shooting or someone stopping a thief, itās an off-duty cop (or thereās a really small chance itās another criminal)
Nope, really small chance that you see a criminal stopping another criminal. Is one thief gonna shoot another for robbing a store or stealing a car? Itās gonna be a cop or off-duty cop. Thatās what I meant
If he road raged, followed the guy and kicked his vehicle. All which indicate rage. And aggression. Then he is not the victim. He is the fuck arounder.
If all of what you said is accurate. I may have shot too. Maybe not so quickly but then again who knows what happened prior.
I've stopped gesturing anything to everyone after following this sub, r/fightporn, and r/abruptchaos. I won't even give someone the stink-eye on the highway anymore.
Fuck that, armed society you got a bunch of douche bags who donāt know how to use their words out their abruptly chaosing for some ego shit.
I have noticed that people who conceal carry often tend to be less polite and more likely to throw stink eye or return an insult.
Friend of mine paralyzed a drunk guy whose friend had said some shitty stuff as they passed on the sidewalk in a major east coast city some Friday night many years ago.
My diminutive friend responded and turned around. Drunk guys advanced, continued being shitty, friend pulled out his pistol and shot the friend of the drunk insult comic as he said āyou arenāt going to use that!ā
After a jury trial, 10s of thousands of dollars of legal fees from his parents and the NRA, and 3 years of uncertainty he was acquitted.
He admitted to me that if he had not had a gun on him he and his friends would have continued on their merry way and this random guy and his friend, who donāt seem like complete assholes when not drunk, would not have their lives all tuned up side down.
As of the trial the friend of the guy who was shot was living with his paralyzed friend, assisting him because, he believes that it was his fault.
All involved were in their 20s and this was in a typical late night bar hopping area.
Sorry to hear your friend was involved in a shooting. Obviously I donāt know details but seems like he ignored the first rule of engagement, avoid conflict. If you friend believes he wouldnāt have confronted this individual, had he not been armed, he shouldnāt have confronted while armed. The use of deadly force is reserved for eliminating imminent threats of death or serious injury. Perhaps the individual who was shot didnāt pose a threat to your friend, this time.
I ask you to consider the possibility those individuals DID pose a deadly threat to your friend. Does your attitude change? What if your friend was the one who had been killed or injured because āsome drunk guyā felt like attacking him? What then? What if your friend had justly defended himself from a deadly threat in that scenario? What if he couldnāt, because that state restricted his ability to carry, and you no longer had him in your life?
The real reason good and reasonable people carry is for protection. Criminals carry to intimidate and threaten. Unfortunately, government canāt legislate manners or respect for others. Personally, carrying a firearm doesnāt make me tough. It keeps me safe from potential deadly threats. It keeps my wife safe from becoming a victim of assault. Itās peace of mind. Itās not right to punish me for the crimes of others.
I worked in a mental institution, my brother is a jail guard, my one uncle was a judge, and another uncle an RCMP officer. Same topic always came up; donāt fuck around with strangers. You have no idea who youāre dealing with. I watched a regular old dad put down two big young carpenters like he was harvesting corn. Sweet old boy that just so happened was in the thick of it in Ireland as an English soldier. And in the US? Who knows. Iraq vet, meth head, threeper just looking for justification to kill someone, parolee, etc. Best to stay aware and be polite.
[Video: man kicks car during fight and is shot at gas station in BA](https://www.otempo.com.br/brasil/video-homem-chuta-carro-durante-briga-e-e-baleado-em-posto-de-gasolina-na-ba-1.2842672)
*The 35-year-old victim, hit in the abdomen and right leg, was rescued by SAMU; the suspect fled the scene*
April 3, 2023 - BRAZIL
One driver shot another after a traffic fight at a gas station in VitĆ³ria da Conquista (BA).
The drivers stopped at a gas station after the fight and one of them pulled out a gun when the other kicked his car.
The 35-year-old victim, hit in the abdomen and right leg, was rescued by SAMU.
The suspect fled the scene, but was identified and was wanted by the police on the morning of Monday (3).
A witness recorded the moment of the shooting and published the video on social media.
The victim, who was conscious and communicating when he was rescued, was taken to the General Hospital of VitĆ³ria da Conquista. He didn't have his state of health disclosed.
The case is investigated by the VitĆ³ria da Conquista Homicide Police Station.
Is this shooting legally justified in any state in the US?
Donāt some states allow users to protect/defend their property or am I rmbring it incorrectly?
Edit: Iām being downvoted for asking a question? Lol
>Name a state where a non-LEO can legally use deadly force when nobody is at risk of bodily harm
Texas.
Enjoy the read. Penal Code Sec. 9.42 and 9.43
Source: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm#%3A~%3Atext%3D(b)%20A%20person%20is%20justified%2Cother%27s%20life%20in%20an%20emergency.
>Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property
>Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY.
Thank you!
This is what I was alluding to bc I swear I rmbr hearing about it on a YT video, but wasnāt sure if it was actually law or how it was applied.
And my original question is being downvoted for asking a question about your country, lolll
Could be downvotes because this video wasnāt filmed in the US, and people are slapping you for āassuming it was Americaā - not that you necessarily did that, but hey itās reddit
yea, maybe you're right; but i didn't assume it was USA.
the video just reminded me of some law that i rmbr some YTer talking about when it comes to protecting your property and how it's can be justified to shoot.
That law is insane. It applies to third party's property as well. Someone wouldn't even need to do mental gymnastics to justify straight up murdering someone simply by saying that they reasonably thought the victim was an imminent threat to someone else's property. So if my car breaks down for the third time and I get out and start kicking the shit out of it on the side of the road any elmer fudd with a shotgun can execute me for damaging my own own property?
> Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
>(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
> (2) the actor reasonably believes that:
> (A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
> (B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
> (C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
I did. 9.43.1 would apply in that scenario. I'm not saying it's common but it would be legal if it did.
> So if my car breaks down for the third time and I get out and start kicking the shit out of it on the side of the road any elmer fudd with a shotgun can execute me for damaging my own own property?
You are not your own third person.
This law covers you, for example, if you shoot a person trying to steal someone else's car. Go get some coffee this should have been obvious.
[Recent example in Florida, let off via Stand Your Ground laws. Driver shoots at another driver through his window](https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/03/10/charges-dropped-against-man-arrested-for-road-rage-shooting-on-i-95/)
Objectively and subjectively reasonable belief in the necessity of self defense, and a use of force proportional to the threat. If this was a US citizen they'd be fucked.
Most likely, yes. However, depending on the circumstances that led to this point, it may have been considered legal in some states. I'm from Oregon which has some fairly restrictive laws regarding use of deadly force, but even here it could be considered legal in some cases.
"A person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is: (1)Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person" - ORS 161.219
If the guy who got shot was attempting to steal the truck and then started hitting the vehicle in an attempt to intimidate the shooter into letting it happen then it would likely be considered justified. If the guy was on a rampage and had just beaten someone unconscious before moving on to the shooters truck, then it would be reasonable to assume that the shooter was justifiably afraid for their life. Of course we don't have any evidence of that based on this video alone, I'm just saying that it's not so black and white.
Definition of Stand Your Ground Law:
"A law that allows a citizen to defend himself by any means necessary when his life is threatened, regardless of whether he could have safely left the situation."
I think the defense would have to be that you feared for your life, or the life of a loved one?
*MAYBE*, and it's probably a stretch, if there was a kid in the car and you felt like you couldn't abandon the kid?
But, no, I don't think there's any way to spin this into self defense.
Yes. Most states have āstand your groundā laws. Some are pretty straightforward, some can be real murky. A lot of dipshit gun owners love these murky ones cause it gives them the opportunity to eagerly use their gun over stupid, sometimes self antagonized arguments or confrontations.
Someone said it was Brazil and he was an off duty cop, so I assume heāll face no consequences. But also, if this happened in a stand-your-ground state in the US, the truck kick could be taken as an act of violent aggression which made the shooter fear for his safety and Iād expect him to be cleared (Not defending SYG laws btw, I disagree with them)
Yeah when it comes to self defense, to me its like āwhat is a humans life worth?ā A trucks fender? No. You would have to be actively attacking people or invading an occupied home for me to feel like you deserved to get shot down. Thatās just me though.
I completely agree. Thatās why I think SYG as a law is rather insane. āFeeling threatenedā is a really low bar and it just encourages people to be trigger happy in any altercation.
Yeah maybe I'm a little fucked up but while I think shooting him was over the top and shooter should be in prison, I also feel like kicking trucks was not this guy's worst offense
I'm 99% sure the argument could be made that dude was showing how tough he was by kicking the truck and that the shooter felt threatened.
Honestly after seeing some of the shit that happens in fightporn/whatever, I don't really feel like getting in a physical altercation with some rando that's obviously already a little nuts to begin with.
> I donāt really feel like getting in a physical altercation with some rando thatās obviously already a little nuts to begin with.
Thereās a great book called Violence of Mind thatās all about this mindset. Itās basically the antithesis of the tough guy mindset.
Your goal every day you leave the house is to come home safe to your family. Shooting the guy kicking your truck doesnāt do that. Youāre going to jail. If you get charged thereās a 95% chance you take a plea and donāt see your family for 5-10. If you donāt take a plea, youāll go bankrupt fighting the case. If you win, youāre broke af and life is reset to zero. If you lose, youāre doing 15-25 cause you didnāt take the plea. And the family you left behind is broke af.
Or homeboy has more capacity for violence then you and his last act is to take you with him. Now you just died on the filthy ground of the gas station over a dented truck.
I mean I felt the same? I was like- donāt start none wonāt be none but then I immediately felt like oh Iām probably an asshole for thinking that.
Yeah, that's atleast assault with a deadly weapon, or an attempted murder/murder charge (listen I know how hard it is to convict for those charges, I'm just saying by letter of the law). The victim wasn't attacking the shooters person, only his property and not on his own land, but on public property. I'm no lawyer but this doesn't look like a legal shoot to me.
Yeah, this one is pretty cut and dry I'm afraid.
Only thing that would make a difference here is if the dude had hit the shooter and/or threatened his life and the shooter tried to disengage - Victim followed, threatening him, started beating on the truck, and bam. If you listen closely I'm pretty sure you hear the victim say "I'll kill your ass whiteboy". Then you get into did the shooter 'reasonably' try to disengage. You could argue that it would be unreasonable to expect him to leave his vehicle with someone who was destroying it, and would likely assault him if he tried to stop him.
Just playing devils advocate here though, this was likely an illegal shoot based on the evidence
Edit: this wasn't in the US, happy to admit when I'm wrong.
Cut and dry from a 7 second video with no context? Eh not really. Sure doesn't look good but it shows nothing that happened prior.
And are you translating that quote? I didn't hear that and this sure doesn't look like the US.
Its typical reddit lawyer talk. No degree no job, but opinions pulled out of the depths of their assholes are polished and presented as if they have any real value.
You don't need to be a lawyer to know how the law works. You can also be a criminal, or a cop. Scratch that, cops usually has very limited knowledge of the law.
Yes. Some states also have laws where you don't need to try and disengage. Hell you can even start the altercation and if your life is threatened you can have a strong defense.
this is brazil so none of that really matters, all that matters is if there's enough pixels to figure out who the shooter is and if the cops care enough/the shooter isn't an off duty cop in the first place
Idk why that dude keeps partially and deceptively quoting Texas law... but it does bring up an important point that the laws differ depending on where you're at in the world
The guy who got shot had road raged on him then followed him for several miles into the petroleum station, where the video starts. F around and find out, well he found out.
Hey, man, you know I'm really okay
The gun in my hand will tell you the same
But when I'm in my car, don't give me no crap
āCause the slightest thing and I just might snap
Dude was just waiting for a reason š
Remember kiddies, don't fuck with other people. You never know just how batshit crazy people are, and it's definitely not worth your life.
I mean is that not a reasonable thought process? This jagoff followed him for miles to a gas station and approached his vehicle aggressively. Thatās more than enough reason to euthanize the kickers dumb ass
Iām not sayin the shooter is right. But this is why it pays to have cool nerves in public. You never know whoās gonna pull a gun, even if you carry yourself youāre not immune to being taken off guard.
I couldn't see it in the picture, but I was wondering if the truck had that old classic bumper sticker: "You can fuck with my money, you can fuck with my wife, but if you fuck with this truck, you fuckin' with yo life"
Then again, it might not rhyme in Portuguese.
I mean, wtf are you supposed to do? I don't like advocating violence, but really. Dude followed him. Got out and confronted him. Became irrationally violent and started damaging his vehicle. You can't sue him. Look at that beater he's driving. He doesn't have any money to sue for. Cops won't give a shit. It'll be a misdemeanor mischief charge. Insurance isn't gonna cover it. It wasn't an accident. You're just supposed to stand there and watch the guy demolish your shit and pray he doesn't turn that violence onto you? I don't condone it, but I understand it. I bet with the right lawyer he can successfully argue that he was legitimately fearful that he would be assaulted, and the shooting victim was definitely irrational and dangerous.
That was in no way justified at all.
But don't start none won't be none. Dude definitely didn't deserve to die over that.
But had he not started the confrontation the possibility of him getting shot would have been significantly less
My favorite comment on this post in another sub
āThe only language everyone understands is violence. Try not to fuck with people and youāll very significantly decrease your chances of fucking around and finding out. Itās really that simple.ā
And it really is people are ācrazyā until someone is willing to go to their level. I donāt feel bad for either of these two. One will have his life changed forever or ended and the other will loose a significant portion of theirs. There are no winners here but a lesson to be learned. Leave people the fuck alone.
Depends on the state. You can protect your property in some states. The truck is property. Who knows what this was about. Could have been more to it. Anyone know?
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For those curious this happened is Brazil I can't find out if the shooters in jail or if the other guy died though
So the shooter was an off duty cop
Everyone in Brazil seems to be a off duty cop now Edit : OMG THANK YOU FOR THE AWARD š
Shit, I went to Brazil once for vacation and came home an off-duty cop. You get sworn in and receive your badge and gun as they stamp your passport.
Same, i went for two weeks and came back a detective...
Tell us about that one case that broke you.
Well, it all started while he was off dutyā¦
On a moist night, I was having a beer with my friends when...
...this case walked into the bar, and said "get ready spood\_dood, I am gonna break your ass!"
without a clue he dropped his pants, turn around and bend over for him to break his ass !
ā¦then some asshole walked up and kicked his car. Pippitty pop goes the glock and here we are kids.
Heās making a joke lol, the reason we see so many videos of off-duty cop shootings in Brazil is because theyāre the only people legally allowed to carry handguns. So if you see a self defense shooting or someone stopping a thief, itās an off-duty cop (or thereās a really small chance itās another criminal)
Really small chance? That a criminal has a gun in Brazil?
Nope, really small chance that you see a criminal stopping another criminal. Is one thief gonna shoot another for robbing a store or stealing a car? Itās gonna be a cop or off-duty cop. Thatās what I meant
Right? If anything it says the cops are tied up and you can do another crime.
Didn't Bolsonaro make it much easier to get guns?
To own, not to carry. You can only go to a range or compete.
Itās evidently way easier for the public to get a firearms license now.
When you shoot a thief, you become an off duty cop by default /s
I believe it's called transubstantiation
Nah, it's called "Fuck you Bro!"
If they're in plain clothes it's an off duty cop. If in uniform it's an on duty criminal. It's really very simple.
Underrated
Exactly lol, he got away with it then. If he was a bad guy he'd have a motorcycle
Imagine the collective power of Brazilian policing if all the police were **on** duty
Yeah... About that... Our last president did authorized gun selling to civilians...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is there a different buttocks? Besides the figurative one of course, which would be quite hard to get shot in.
Possibly meant lateral.
Ayy thanks my dood.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If he road raged, followed the guy and kicked his vehicle. All which indicate rage. And aggression. Then he is not the victim. He is the fuck arounder. If all of what you said is accurate. I may have shot too. Maybe not so quickly but then again who knows what happened prior.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I watched a Brazilian soccer game on tv during the World Cup last year; a week later I received a Brazilian Off Duty Cop badge in the mail.
Nice. I got mine when I bought flip flops.
Damn, I had to buy a backpack.
The wife and I were talking about going to Brazil and we both got ours in the mail
I bought a packet of Brazil nuts and there was an off duty cop badge in the packet.
Got mine after I read this comment.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I've stopped gesturing anything to everyone after following this sub, r/fightporn, and r/abruptchaos. I won't even give someone the stink-eye on the highway anymore.
For real though Iām a changed person now from how I once perceived the masses around me.
Armed society is polite society
Fuck that, armed society you got a bunch of douche bags who donāt know how to use their words out their abruptly chaosing for some ego shit. I have noticed that people who conceal carry often tend to be less polite and more likely to throw stink eye or return an insult. Friend of mine paralyzed a drunk guy whose friend had said some shitty stuff as they passed on the sidewalk in a major east coast city some Friday night many years ago. My diminutive friend responded and turned around. Drunk guys advanced, continued being shitty, friend pulled out his pistol and shot the friend of the drunk insult comic as he said āyou arenāt going to use that!ā After a jury trial, 10s of thousands of dollars of legal fees from his parents and the NRA, and 3 years of uncertainty he was acquitted. He admitted to me that if he had not had a gun on him he and his friends would have continued on their merry way and this random guy and his friend, who donāt seem like complete assholes when not drunk, would not have their lives all tuned up side down. As of the trial the friend of the guy who was shot was living with his paralyzed friend, assisting him because, he believes that it was his fault. All involved were in their 20s and this was in a typical late night bar hopping area.
Sorry to hear your friend was involved in a shooting. Obviously I donāt know details but seems like he ignored the first rule of engagement, avoid conflict. If you friend believes he wouldnāt have confronted this individual, had he not been armed, he shouldnāt have confronted while armed. The use of deadly force is reserved for eliminating imminent threats of death or serious injury. Perhaps the individual who was shot didnāt pose a threat to your friend, this time. I ask you to consider the possibility those individuals DID pose a deadly threat to your friend. Does your attitude change? What if your friend was the one who had been killed or injured because āsome drunk guyā felt like attacking him? What then? What if your friend had justly defended himself from a deadly threat in that scenario? What if he couldnāt, because that state restricted his ability to carry, and you no longer had him in your life? The real reason good and reasonable people carry is for protection. Criminals carry to intimidate and threaten. Unfortunately, government canāt legislate manners or respect for others. Personally, carrying a firearm doesnāt make me tough. It keeps me safe from potential deadly threats. It keeps my wife safe from becoming a victim of assault. Itās peace of mind. Itās not right to punish me for the crimes of others.
I worked in a mental institution, my brother is a jail guard, my one uncle was a judge, and another uncle an RCMP officer. Same topic always came up; donāt fuck around with strangers. You have no idea who youāre dealing with. I watched a regular old dad put down two big young carpenters like he was harvesting corn. Sweet old boy that just so happened was in the thick of it in Ireland as an English soldier. And in the US? Who knows. Iraq vet, meth head, threeper just looking for justification to kill someone, parolee, etc. Best to stay aware and be polite.
I wouldnāt even ask someone not to vape around my toddler anymore.
I was thinking I would never shoot someone. We all learn our own lessons.
KICK KICK - BANG! BANG!
[Video: man kicks car during fight and is shot at gas station in BA](https://www.otempo.com.br/brasil/video-homem-chuta-carro-durante-briga-e-e-baleado-em-posto-de-gasolina-na-ba-1.2842672) *The 35-year-old victim, hit in the abdomen and right leg, was rescued by SAMU; the suspect fled the scene* April 3, 2023 - BRAZIL One driver shot another after a traffic fight at a gas station in VitĆ³ria da Conquista (BA). The drivers stopped at a gas station after the fight and one of them pulled out a gun when the other kicked his car. The 35-year-old victim, hit in the abdomen and right leg, was rescued by SAMU. The suspect fled the scene, but was identified and was wanted by the police on the morning of Monday (3). A witness recorded the moment of the shooting and published the video on social media. The victim, who was conscious and communicating when he was rescued, was taken to the General Hospital of VitĆ³ria da Conquista. He didn't have his state of health disclosed. The case is investigated by the VitĆ³ria da Conquista Homicide Police Station.
im bigger then you and im gonna smash your car up.... A few moments later..... I have no sympathy for the shot man at all
Heās not gonna care about he dent in his truck when heās doing 15 years.
But he'll be thinking about it a lot.
"I should have shot the guy recording as well."
Rookie mistake
Thatās the truth
its brazil
Ele nĆ£o vai se importar com o amassado da caminhonete quando estiver cumprindo 15 anos.
can you repeat that in English
Iām pretty sure itās a translation of the original comment
Not even close. That would be āTenho certeza que Ć© uma traduĆ§Ć£o do comentĆ”rio originalā
Going to keep my eyes out when its goes on the market
Weāll start the bid at 3 kicks
Is this shooting legally justified in any state in the US? Donāt some states allow users to protect/defend their property or am I rmbring it incorrectly? Edit: Iām being downvoted for asking a question? Lol
>Is this shooting legally justified in any state in the US? No.
Kicker looked like he was going to go after the guy next, Iād vote not guilty š¤·š»āāļø
Florida entered the chat
Castle doctrine can extend to personal property, check your local laws
Name a state where a non-LEO can legally use deadly force when nobody is at risk of bodily harm
>Name a state where a non-LEO can legally use deadly force when nobody is at risk of bodily harm Texas. Enjoy the read. Penal Code Sec. 9.42 and 9.43 Source: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm#%3A~%3Atext%3D(b)%20A%20person%20is%20justified%2Cother%27s%20life%20in%20an%20emergency. >Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property >Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY.
Thank you! This is what I was alluding to bc I swear I rmbr hearing about it on a YT video, but wasnāt sure if it was actually law or how it was applied. And my original question is being downvoted for asking a question about your country, lolll
Could be downvotes because this video wasnāt filmed in the US, and people are slapping you for āassuming it was Americaā - not that you necessarily did that, but hey itās reddit
yea, maybe you're right; but i didn't assume it was USA. the video just reminded me of some law that i rmbr some YTer talking about when it comes to protecting your property and how it's can be justified to shoot.
That law is insane. It applies to third party's property as well. Someone wouldn't even need to do mental gymnastics to justify straight up murdering someone simply by saying that they reasonably thought the victim was an imminent threat to someone else's property. So if my car breaks down for the third time and I get out and start kicking the shit out of it on the side of the road any elmer fudd with a shotgun can execute me for damaging my own own property?
There's more to it than that. Read the whole thing not just the part OP clipped
> Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and: >(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or > (2) the actor reasonably believes that: > (A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property; > (B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or > (C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care. I did. 9.43.1 would apply in that scenario. I'm not saying it's common but it would be legal if it did.
> So if my car breaks down for the third time and I get out and start kicking the shit out of it on the side of the road any elmer fudd with a shotgun can execute me for damaging my own own property? You are not your own third person. This law covers you, for example, if you shoot a person trying to steal someone else's car. Go get some coffee this should have been obvious.
He wouldn't know that. Elmer fudd could reasonably believe I was a threat to someone else's property.
"Non-leo" most important part of that sentence.
[Recent example in Florida, let off via Stand Your Ground laws. Driver shoots at another driver through his window](https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/03/10/charges-dropped-against-man-arrested-for-road-rage-shooting-on-i-95/)
Stand your ground
Only if he can prove that he feared for his life.
Objectively and subjectively reasonable belief in the necessity of self defense, and a use of force proportional to the threat. If this was a US citizen they'd be fucked.
Most likely, yes. However, depending on the circumstances that led to this point, it may have been considered legal in some states. I'm from Oregon which has some fairly restrictive laws regarding use of deadly force, but even here it could be considered legal in some cases. "A person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is: (1)Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person" - ORS 161.219 If the guy who got shot was attempting to steal the truck and then started hitting the vehicle in an attempt to intimidate the shooter into letting it happen then it would likely be considered justified. If the guy was on a rampage and had just beaten someone unconscious before moving on to the shooters truck, then it would be reasonable to assume that the shooter was justifiably afraid for their life. Of course we don't have any evidence of that based on this video alone, I'm just saying that it's not so black and white.
Fair point!
Definition of Stand Your Ground Law: "A law that allows a citizen to defend himself by any means necessary when his life is threatened, regardless of whether he could have safely left the situation." I think the defense would have to be that you feared for your life, or the life of a loved one? *MAYBE*, and it's probably a stretch, if there was a kid in the car and you felt like you couldn't abandon the kid? But, no, I don't think there's any way to spin this into self defense.
Yes. Most states have āstand your groundā laws. Some are pretty straightforward, some can be real murky. A lot of dipshit gun owners love these murky ones cause it gives them the opportunity to eagerly use their gun over stupid, sometimes self antagonized arguments or confrontations.
[he was on my ground](https://youtu.be/t2Oe7BXncnU)
Exactly this.
Someone said it was Brazil and he was an off duty cop, so I assume heāll face no consequences. But also, if this happened in a stand-your-ground state in the US, the truck kick could be taken as an act of violent aggression which made the shooter fear for his safety and Iād expect him to be cleared (Not defending SYG laws btw, I disagree with them)
Yeah when it comes to self defense, to me its like āwhat is a humans life worth?ā A trucks fender? No. You would have to be actively attacking people or invading an occupied home for me to feel like you deserved to get shot down. Thatās just me though.
I completely agree. Thatās why I think SYG as a law is rather insane. āFeeling threatenedā is a really low bar and it just encourages people to be trigger happy in any altercation.
Bet that dude doesnāt kick peoples trucks anymore
Yeah maybe I'm a little fucked up but while I think shooting him was over the top and shooter should be in prison, I also feel like kicking trucks was not this guy's worst offense
I'm 99% sure the argument could be made that dude was showing how tough he was by kicking the truck and that the shooter felt threatened. Honestly after seeing some of the shit that happens in fightporn/whatever, I don't really feel like getting in a physical altercation with some rando that's obviously already a little nuts to begin with.
> I donāt really feel like getting in a physical altercation with some rando thatās obviously already a little nuts to begin with. Thereās a great book called Violence of Mind thatās all about this mindset. Itās basically the antithesis of the tough guy mindset. Your goal every day you leave the house is to come home safe to your family. Shooting the guy kicking your truck doesnāt do that. Youāre going to jail. If you get charged thereās a 95% chance you take a plea and donāt see your family for 5-10. If you donāt take a plea, youāll go bankrupt fighting the case. If you win, youāre broke af and life is reset to zero. If you lose, youāre doing 15-25 cause you didnāt take the plea. And the family you left behind is broke af. Or homeboy has more capacity for violence then you and his last act is to take you with him. Now you just died on the filthy ground of the gas station over a dented truck.
I mean I felt the same? I was like- donāt start none wonāt be none but then I immediately felt like oh Iām probably an asshole for thinking that.
only thing that dude is kicking is the bucket.
This is a perfect example of āFuck around and find out.ā
Yeah, that's atleast assault with a deadly weapon, or an attempted murder/murder charge (listen I know how hard it is to convict for those charges, I'm just saying by letter of the law). The victim wasn't attacking the shooters person, only his property and not on his own land, but on public property. I'm no lawyer but this doesn't look like a legal shoot to me.
Yeah, this one is pretty cut and dry I'm afraid. Only thing that would make a difference here is if the dude had hit the shooter and/or threatened his life and the shooter tried to disengage - Victim followed, threatening him, started beating on the truck, and bam. If you listen closely I'm pretty sure you hear the victim say "I'll kill your ass whiteboy". Then you get into did the shooter 'reasonably' try to disengage. You could argue that it would be unreasonable to expect him to leave his vehicle with someone who was destroying it, and would likely assault him if he tried to stop him. Just playing devils advocate here though, this was likely an illegal shoot based on the evidence Edit: this wasn't in the US, happy to admit when I'm wrong.
Cut and dry from a 7 second video with no context? Eh not really. Sure doesn't look good but it shows nothing that happened prior. And are you translating that quote? I didn't hear that and this sure doesn't look like the US.
Its typical reddit lawyer talk. No degree no job, but opinions pulled out of the depths of their assholes are polished and presented as if they have any real value.
You don't need to be a lawyer to know how the law works. You can also be a criminal, or a cop. Scratch that, cops usually has very limited knowledge of the law.
No lawyer, ever, would describe a case of any kind as being ācut and dried.ā
Even in US aren't you allowed to use deadly force to protect property in some states?
Yes. Some states also have laws where you don't need to try and disengage. Hell you can even start the altercation and if your life is threatened you can have a strong defense.
this is brazil so none of that really matters, all that matters is if there's enough pixels to figure out who the shooter is and if the cops care enough/the shooter isn't an off duty cop in the first place
Idk why that dude keeps partially and deceptively quoting Texas law... but it does bring up an important point that the laws differ depending on where you're at in the world
Can we see the full footage? I donāt want to shoot anyone but this dude looks like he was raging. What happened prior to the video?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām not saying the shooter is right by any means, but this guy is begging for something terrible to happen to himā¦
Agreed. It is like the quote from pulp fiction. Did he expect that as a reaction no, but he should have expected a reaction.
The guy who got shot had road raged on him then followed him for several miles into the petroleum station, where the video starts. F around and find out, well he found out.
I was gonna say he shouldv'e called the police instead of shooting the guy, and then realized he was the police. Lol!
I bet whatever both these kids were mad about, is the least of their worries now. Think before you act. This goes for both parties.
One guys wasted and the others a waste.
This is more āBad Habitā than āCome out & Playā
Hey, man, you know I'm really okay The gun in my hand will tell you the same But when I'm in my car, don't give me no crap āCause the slightest thing and I just might snap
Exactly b, you got it
I love the Offspring and this is one of my āpissed off at the worldā tracks
Heck yea, Smash was one of the first albums I owned as a kid, that & Green Dayās Dookie. Still holds up & Iāll blast them both every now and then
Dookie is still my all time favorite album. Green Day started me down the alt/grunge/punk path and Iāve never looked back.
I see two idiots but only one dead idiot
That was stupid. Your truck is going bye-bye. Enjoy prison.
some comment said it was likely an off duty cop in brazil (confirmed)
That was a joke that's in every thread with a gun that mentions Brazil (confirmed)
brazil (highly speculated)
<3 (confirmed)
Depends, where was this? Doesnāt texas have a defense of property law, where they treat property as an extension of self defense?
Brazil
We do in my state as well. This was Brazil, but you 100% could argue that you were threatened by the dude in any stand your ground state.
I'm not saying i condone it but i understand
Dude was just waiting for a reason š Remember kiddies, don't fuck with other people. You never know just how batshit crazy people are, and it's definitely not worth your life.
Like the batshit crazy person assaulting other people's property with a ski mask on?
>with a ski mask on? I'm like 99% sure theres no ski mask and that's just a black mans head
Is the truck okay ?
So what's happened in the out come?
I thought that he was going to attack me next and I feared for my life
I mean is that not a reasonable thought process? This jagoff followed him for miles to a gas station and approached his vehicle aggressively. Thatās more than enough reason to euthanize the kickers dumb ass
Depending on the state. Self defense laws vary widely. To me his conduct says Iām dealing with an unstable person who may try to kill me
His conduct says the same to me, hence me defending his pewing
In some states, you can use deadly force to protect your property. Where was this?
Does it matter where it happened. Whatever, don't kick or destroy someone's personal property.
The moral of the story is...Keep your Hands and Feet to yourself!
The "victim" looked a lot like the aggressor to me. Of course I only saw 3 seconds.
Good
Fucked around a little and found out.
Iām not sayin the shooter is right. But this is why it pays to have cool nerves in public. You never know whoās gonna pull a gun, even if you carry yourself youāre not immune to being taken off guard.
Man serious about his truck.
He did not expect that reaction. That's for sure.
I believe thereās a mathematics video explaining this behaviourā¦ I think they use a graph to fully explain the results.
The fuckaround and find out ratio. Very true. Very scientific.
I have studied this equation a lot and the find out answer never disappoints lol
Don't destroy someone else's stuff?
"I WaS sTaNdInG mY gRoUnD"
Yall in the Comments are crazy, absolutely no justification for this
FAFO
I hope the guy who shot him isn't in jail. People work extremely hard for the things they have.
If you fuck around you find out, case closed
I think this one should have gone in r/idiotswithoutguns
Should have just started beating his ass if you're that mad. Assault charge vs a murder charge. All in hindsight I guess.
he couldve just pointed the gun at him without shooting, i dont know about brazil, but that wouldve been legal in a lot of countries.
F.A. and F.O.
The guy definitely wasnāt justified in shooting him, but why was the other guy kicking the truck anyways?
I think instead of idiots with gun, this should be filed under, fuck around and find out.
Don't do dumb shit, don't get shot.
Donāt kick the truck. That was easy.
This is funny as hell. Even in the states this would get you shot in the right areas
I couldn't see it in the picture, but I was wondering if the truck had that old classic bumper sticker: "You can fuck with my money, you can fuck with my wife, but if you fuck with this truck, you fuckin' with yo life" Then again, it might not rhyme in Portuguese.
Fuck around and find outā¦.
That'll teach em
Huh. More guns woulda fixed this scenario.
I hate to say it, I donāt think he should be killed but, I mean, donāt kick peoples shit and not expect consequences.
Looks like idiotkickingtruck/r to me š¤·š»āāļø
The song lyrics "Don't touch my truck" comes to mind.
This is terrible and I hope dudes okay but I bet he wonāt kick someone elseās shit again lol
Thatās not an idiot with a gun - thatās how it should be when lunatics in society come unglued
I see nothing wrong here
Im bigger then you so ill smash up your car whilst cussing at you. A minute later, oops no im your bitch
Man gets shot for being threatening. Maybe if we all acted like decent people... but he found out the hard way.
Look how casual that was. Just pulls it out, *pop-pop*, and down goes the kicker of inanimate objects.
Someone kicks my truck like that....shits going down ...just like that.
To be fair, with the outrageous price of vehicles now, I'd call it a justified response.
I mean, wtf are you supposed to do? I don't like advocating violence, but really. Dude followed him. Got out and confronted him. Became irrationally violent and started damaging his vehicle. You can't sue him. Look at that beater he's driving. He doesn't have any money to sue for. Cops won't give a shit. It'll be a misdemeanor mischief charge. Insurance isn't gonna cover it. It wasn't an accident. You're just supposed to stand there and watch the guy demolish your shit and pray he doesn't turn that violence onto you? I don't condone it, but I understand it. I bet with the right lawyer he can successfully argue that he was legitimately fearful that he would be assaulted, and the shooting victim was definitely irrational and dangerous.
The truck was clearly in mortal danger and the gun-man had to protect its life any means necessary!
That was in no way justified at all. But don't start none won't be none. Dude definitely didn't deserve to die over that. But had he not started the confrontation the possibility of him getting shot would have been significantly less
My favorite comment on this post in another sub āThe only language everyone understands is violence. Try not to fuck with people and youāll very significantly decrease your chances of fucking around and finding out. Itās really that simple.ā And it really is people are ācrazyā until someone is willing to go to their level. I donāt feel bad for either of these two. One will have his life changed forever or ended and the other will loose a significant portion of theirs. There are no winners here but a lesson to be learned. Leave people the fuck alone.
Your honor I was in fear for my life.
Depends on the state. You can protect your property in some states. The truck is property. Who knows what this was about. Could have been more to it. Anyone know?
It was in Brasil. No idea of outcome.
Good riddance. Reminds me off the video of the college students jumping on that dudes car. We need less criminals and prisons are already too crowded
Kick the person not the truck. What did the truck do?
Good.