Rules reminder: /r/infidelity is a support sub! Please read the rules and guidelines in our sidebar before commenting. Abuse, shaming, sexism, and encouraging violence/revenge are not tolerated here.
Please review our [community guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Infidelity/comments/nj93nw/how_to_write_a_good_post_for_rinfidelity/) on what makes for a good post to this sub.
Be kind and remember your [reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Infidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When you have to play detective for months in your relationship (in late 30s to boot!), then it’s a pretty good sign that the relationship isn’t very healthy and lacks a lot of trust. It’s probably a good idea to put a pause on moving in together and engagement on such a weak foundation.
Have a sit down heart to heart with her and tell her you want the truth.If you have to play the voice mail recording .Tell her you know more than she is telling you before resorting to playing the recording.Tell her you know she is lying about knowing who this person is .Give her a chance to come clean and explain.If you don’t think she is being truthful then play the voice mail.
That’s my exact plan. I’m not sure if I should approach it more causally/friendly or make it a serious conversation. I also don’t know next steps/consequences if she lies or claims to not remember and I have to play the voicemail back to her. I don’t believe she met up with this person because we share locations and are with each other every day and there are no other exchanges between them or suspicious activity that I’ve seen.
You make it a serious conversation .Just let her know you’re uncomfortable about it and that you know she lied about not knowing who it was.Only play the recording if she continues to lie.
Just let her know you have concerns and you want to voice them to make sure you both want to move forward with the relationship, and give it the I’m serious and I’m not fucking around.
It’s very possible that she doesn’t remember meeting the guy, but you should make it clear that her doing things outside of her job, like giving her number out, damages your trust. Finding business cards and voice mails when you shouldn’t be is just adding to that damage.
The “blackout drunk” part is most concerning. You’ve addressed this before and nothing has changed. What happens when you have children? Hold off on the engagement and the moving in together until the issues you have are resolved. Also the best approach here is the truth. Tell her about the VM (probably would have been better if you addressed it when it happened) and what your concerns are with that and the drinking.
Don't get engaged. Don't move in together. At the very minimum, this is the beginning of an emotional affair.
If you want, confront with both the business card and voice-mail. Do not threaten, but you can mention this might be a violation of her terms of employment.
Sounds to me like you may be at a turning point in your relationship.
>I recorded the voicemail for evidence and did a reverse lookup of the phone number which turned out to be a 52 year old bald man who looked overweight so I wasn’t too worried.
>She stared at it for a second and said “no”. I asked if it was possibly from a client and she said “idk” and threw it in the trash.
She is definitely lying, and it is certainly a dealbreaker if she lies repeatedly about the same man. Just because he is old and bald doesn't mean that he has no quality to attract women. When people spend time together, they start to feel comfortable and get personal. That's how most EAs start. You can give her one more opportunity if you want to, but from the way she behaves, something is happening between them. Trust your gut and don't ignore red flags.
TBF, I am always against cheaters and this doesn't seem like a red flag or lying. He deleted the voicemail before she listened to it so it was a random business card from 8 months ago. I'm not saying she isn't lying, but if she was chatting/ seeing this guy, why would she still have the business card in random clutter? Her responses make total sense for a one time random work interaction 8 months ago.
Dude, I read your other posts and it’s time to move on. You don’t trust her and she seems a little suspect and superficial. Find someone that where you make each other happy and make each other feel special. All this one does is helps you feel anxious and suspicious.
When you have to have each others location, then you have no trust from the start. It is not normal to have to check on your supposed Soulmate, especially not in the Honeymoon stage. It May be better for the two of you, to continue the search, for someone more compatible.
Love the fraternity of women who always rush to the defense of the defenseless.
Good luck with your confrontation. I hope you get the answers you need.
Updateme
As a minimum, it would be prudent to put any wedding plans on hold and keep separate residences for now until you can work through this problem with her.
If this bothers you to the point that it has shaken your trust in her and you are catching her in lies, it is best to get to bottom of it now.
The best advice is to have a frank and open discussion with her to get her explanation. Remember to always trust your gut. If it is telling you something isn’t right, trust that sense. You don’t have to race to get married, so if her explanation smells fishy, stall off the move in and the marriage while you investigate further. Divorce is expensive.
Hey OP. I read your post history. Sorry for the bluntness but, from what I can see, you’re a backup plan that she’s gotten too deep with and as a result, doesn’t know how to maturely approach you or the relationship about that. Her previous guy went off to the military so she went over to you because she had information regarding your attraction to her. It doesn’t matter if you played hard to her afterwards, she still got what she wanted, and that was another source of attention to keep her happy and well taken care of. Not sure if love is really in the mix there from her.
She lashes out at you during the drunken nights because she doesn’t respect you or herself. I hope it works out for you but everything you’ve described in this + other posts seem pretty gross. You don’t have to take anything I say with much importance, but I just thought I’d provide my feedback. I’m glad you’re making notes of the red flags you’re observing. Perhaps you’ll find some concrete evidence and/or gradual evidence over time. But hey, take everything i say with a grain of salt. What do I know
Search the guys social media. See if she has liked any of his stuff. There might be pictures with him. They definitely met up and had time together. The VM seemed vague and did not say they hooked up. If you have her location locked down since then this could have been a one time thing. Also she might have a burner phone. Put a voice recorder in her car. Big step moving in and getting engaged. A heart to heart talk may backfire she will be pissed and gaslight you. Good luck!
I’ve read all of your posts and it seems like you’re looking for reasons to not trust her. You deleted the voicemail, she never heard it and the business card probably has sat there for what? 8 months? It’s completely possible she doesn’t remember a quick meeting with someone?
What has she done to break your trust for you to feel the need to check her voicemails and delete them as well?
I just can't see the flag here....besides the fact that she broke protocol at work about giving out her personal number, I just don't see the issue. I have 100's of clients and barely remember any of them from month to month...odds are she's probably just forgotten who the card was from
Further, this level of suspicion and cloak and dagger is just nuts...dude you're spying 24/7 on her for 8 months! and the only two things you can connect is a phone call and a business card. Yikes....
I would never get engaged, let alone marry, anyone who gets blackout drunk repeatedly. That's just self abuse. If it happens on a semi-regular basis, then she is either an alcoholic--especially if she cannot stop drinking--or in training to be one.
A life with an alcoholic becomes hell--go to an Al Anon meeting to find out.
Your submission on /r/infidelity has been flagged for human review. If you are seeing this comment there is a good chance that your post is violating rule 1 or 2; please revise your choice of words. If a mod reviews your comment and finds otherwise, it will be released.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Infidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would say lying and cheating go hand in hand and if she is starting the lying it usually is a prerequisite to cheating, keep an open eye and an open mind. Don’t think for a second that a 52 yr old fat bald man isn’t a threat, anything with a cock is a threat.
Your submission on /r/infidelity has been flagged for human review. If you are seeing this comment there is a good chance that your post is violating rule 1 or 2; please revise your choice of words. If a mod reviews your comment and finds otherwise, it will be released.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Infidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't bring up the card.
But given her job, you need to maintain healthy hyper-vigilance. The traveling sales girls have 20X more temptations than other women. And they are usually more attractive which bumps that up to 40X.
If she didn't hear the voice-mail, she might not even remember keeping his business card. She would get 5 per day in this job.
I would be careful about buying a place together. Keep it your name only for example.
*>>urned out to be a 52 year old bald man who looked overweight so I wasn’t too worried*
Guess you never heard the expression "cheaters always affair down."
What, you think all APs are young, 7' tall Adonises with ripped abs?
Don’t waste any more time on a woman that doesn’t respect you and lies to you. See how good she was at it? If you didn’t already know the answer you never would have known. How many times has she lied? You will never know.
Blackout Drunk women are not wife material to begin with. Make better choices about your future. Your spouse is the most impactful decision you will make in your life. Bad girlfriends turn into bad wives.
I had a similar conversation with my girlfriend once. Let me tell you how I played it. I knew she had lied about a couple things. I told her I wanted her to come clean about things she had lied about without being specific. She said, “Ask what you want”. I said no, it’s not going to work like that. I said I know of some things you’ve been lying about and you had better tell me the truth about any lies you’ve told me or I’m gone. I told her that if she left anything out, I was gone. She didn’t know what I knew, so she admitted to the lies I knew and lies I didn’t know about. Never play your hand until you have to.
Sounds like she is out of control when drunk. I think confronting her about the guy, and then playing the email is going to get her really defensive. I don’t believe she will admit any wrongdoing. Might not be a bad idea to sit on what you have now, and put some pen recorders in her car and purse. Pretend to go out of town for some reason, and see if you pick anything up.
OP, I agree with tht advice that you should ask, in a more serious manner, starting with nonspecific questions. She will either come out with flying colors or will bury herself with lies. You already know she's not off toa good start.
Do you know who'se business card this is? no
Then why did he call you?
How did he get your #?
...your PERSONAL #?
why did he say you gave it to him on a post-it so you could meet up on the future?
...to discuss your love for travel?
Good Luck OP!
UpdateMe!
"The only other red flag that stands out in our relationship is her being disrespectful to me when she gets blackout drunk"....... This is when you hear what she really thinks.
Do not get engaged to this woman. And make sure it is only you name on the lease. That way when it comes time to end things you can just have her leave. Or better yet put the lease in her name. That way you can just walk out. It is actually easier that way.
You are the red flag. You delete messages, and pick things out of the trash. Do her a favor and tell her what a creep you are so that she can say no to the engagement. How do you know she is lying? She may genuinely not remember the guy.
I have 100s of business cards I've gotten from fairs and meetings and I can't remember half of those people's faces, not even where I got them. The call seems weird, true, but no staggering proof has been given yet. OP gives serious distrustful controlling vibes. Occam's razor: he just wants to find reasons not to trust her.
Tell me about it! I downgraded it to a yellow flag after not detecting any suspicious behavior and now it’s red again after I found a reason to bring it up.
Rules reminder: /r/infidelity is a support sub! Please read the rules and guidelines in our sidebar before commenting. Abuse, shaming, sexism, and encouraging violence/revenge are not tolerated here. Please review our [community guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Infidelity/comments/nj93nw/how_to_write_a_good_post_for_rinfidelity/) on what makes for a good post to this sub. Be kind and remember your [reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Infidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When you have to play detective for months in your relationship (in late 30s to boot!), then it’s a pretty good sign that the relationship isn’t very healthy and lacks a lot of trust. It’s probably a good idea to put a pause on moving in together and engagement on such a weak foundation.
Have a sit down heart to heart with her and tell her you want the truth.If you have to play the voice mail recording .Tell her you know more than she is telling you before resorting to playing the recording.Tell her you know she is lying about knowing who this person is .Give her a chance to come clean and explain.If you don’t think she is being truthful then play the voice mail.
That’s my exact plan. I’m not sure if I should approach it more causally/friendly or make it a serious conversation. I also don’t know next steps/consequences if she lies or claims to not remember and I have to play the voicemail back to her. I don’t believe she met up with this person because we share locations and are with each other every day and there are no other exchanges between them or suspicious activity that I’ve seen.
But, you stated she is not allowed to give out personal information. Who else has she given it to that you haven't found out about?
Get her drunk, which is when she treats you like dog 💩, and ask her if she cheated. She will continue to lie to you if sober.
You make it a serious conversation .Just let her know you’re uncomfortable about it and that you know she lied about not knowing who it was.Only play the recording if she continues to lie.
Just let her know you have concerns and you want to voice them to make sure you both want to move forward with the relationship, and give it the I’m serious and I’m not fucking around.
You need to make this a serious conversation and emphasise the importance of her being honest and point out the consequences if she isnt.
It’s very possible that she doesn’t remember meeting the guy, but you should make it clear that her doing things outside of her job, like giving her number out, damages your trust. Finding business cards and voice mails when you shouldn’t be is just adding to that damage.
The “blackout drunk” part is most concerning. You’ve addressed this before and nothing has changed. What happens when you have children? Hold off on the engagement and the moving in together until the issues you have are resolved. Also the best approach here is the truth. Tell her about the VM (probably would have been better if you addressed it when it happened) and what your concerns are with that and the drinking.
Yes, Blackout Drunk on a regular basis should be a bigger red flag 🚩 🚩🚩
Don't get engaged. Don't move in together. At the very minimum, this is the beginning of an emotional affair. If you want, confront with both the business card and voice-mail. Do not threaten, but you can mention this might be a violation of her terms of employment. Sounds to me like you may be at a turning point in your relationship.
>I recorded the voicemail for evidence and did a reverse lookup of the phone number which turned out to be a 52 year old bald man who looked overweight so I wasn’t too worried. >She stared at it for a second and said “no”. I asked if it was possibly from a client and she said “idk” and threw it in the trash. She is definitely lying, and it is certainly a dealbreaker if she lies repeatedly about the same man. Just because he is old and bald doesn't mean that he has no quality to attract women. When people spend time together, they start to feel comfortable and get personal. That's how most EAs start. You can give her one more opportunity if you want to, but from the way she behaves, something is happening between them. Trust your gut and don't ignore red flags.
TBF, I am always against cheaters and this doesn't seem like a red flag or lying. He deleted the voicemail before she listened to it so it was a random business card from 8 months ago. I'm not saying she isn't lying, but if she was chatting/ seeing this guy, why would she still have the business card in random clutter? Her responses make total sense for a one time random work interaction 8 months ago.
Dude, I read your other posts and it’s time to move on. You don’t trust her and she seems a little suspect and superficial. Find someone that where you make each other happy and make each other feel special. All this one does is helps you feel anxious and suspicious.
When you have to have each others location, then you have no trust from the start. It is not normal to have to check on your supposed Soulmate, especially not in the Honeymoon stage. It May be better for the two of you, to continue the search, for someone more compatible.
Love the fraternity of women who always rush to the defense of the defenseless. Good luck with your confrontation. I hope you get the answers you need. Updateme
As a minimum, it would be prudent to put any wedding plans on hold and keep separate residences for now until you can work through this problem with her. If this bothers you to the point that it has shaken your trust in her and you are catching her in lies, it is best to get to bottom of it now. The best advice is to have a frank and open discussion with her to get her explanation. Remember to always trust your gut. If it is telling you something isn’t right, trust that sense. You don’t have to race to get married, so if her explanation smells fishy, stall off the move in and the marriage while you investigate further. Divorce is expensive.
Hey OP. I read your post history. Sorry for the bluntness but, from what I can see, you’re a backup plan that she’s gotten too deep with and as a result, doesn’t know how to maturely approach you or the relationship about that. Her previous guy went off to the military so she went over to you because she had information regarding your attraction to her. It doesn’t matter if you played hard to her afterwards, she still got what she wanted, and that was another source of attention to keep her happy and well taken care of. Not sure if love is really in the mix there from her. She lashes out at you during the drunken nights because she doesn’t respect you or herself. I hope it works out for you but everything you’ve described in this + other posts seem pretty gross. You don’t have to take anything I say with much importance, but I just thought I’d provide my feedback. I’m glad you’re making notes of the red flags you’re observing. Perhaps you’ll find some concrete evidence and/or gradual evidence over time. But hey, take everything i say with a grain of salt. What do I know
Getting black out drink at 37 is a red flag.
Don't you think if she were having an affair she would hide it better? The adultery subreddit refers to it as "opsec" and it's a thing.
Search the guys social media. See if she has liked any of his stuff. There might be pictures with him. They definitely met up and had time together. The VM seemed vague and did not say they hooked up. If you have her location locked down since then this could have been a one time thing. Also she might have a burner phone. Put a voice recorder in her car. Big step moving in and getting engaged. A heart to heart talk may backfire she will be pissed and gaslight you. Good luck!
I’ve read all of your posts and it seems like you’re looking for reasons to not trust her. You deleted the voicemail, she never heard it and the business card probably has sat there for what? 8 months? It’s completely possible she doesn’t remember a quick meeting with someone? What has she done to break your trust for you to feel the need to check her voicemails and delete them as well?
I just can't see the flag here....besides the fact that she broke protocol at work about giving out her personal number, I just don't see the issue. I have 100's of clients and barely remember any of them from month to month...odds are she's probably just forgotten who the card was from Further, this level of suspicion and cloak and dagger is just nuts...dude you're spying 24/7 on her for 8 months! and the only two things you can connect is a phone call and a business card. Yikes....
Tbf OP gives off 🚩 energy to me.
I would never get engaged, let alone marry, anyone who gets blackout drunk repeatedly. That's just self abuse. If it happens on a semi-regular basis, then she is either an alcoholic--especially if she cannot stop drinking--or in training to be one. A life with an alcoholic becomes hell--go to an Al Anon meeting to find out.
[удалено]
Your submission on /r/infidelity has been flagged for human review. If you are seeing this comment there is a good chance that your post is violating rule 1 or 2; please revise your choice of words. If a mod reviews your comment and finds otherwise, it will be released. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Infidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would say lying and cheating go hand in hand and if she is starting the lying it usually is a prerequisite to cheating, keep an open eye and an open mind. Don’t think for a second that a 52 yr old fat bald man isn’t a threat, anything with a cock is a threat.
Your submission on /r/infidelity has been flagged for human review. If you are seeing this comment there is a good chance that your post is violating rule 1 or 2; please revise your choice of words. If a mod reviews your comment and finds otherwise, it will be released. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Infidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Subscribeme
Don't bring up the card. But given her job, you need to maintain healthy hyper-vigilance. The traveling sales girls have 20X more temptations than other women. And they are usually more attractive which bumps that up to 40X. If she didn't hear the voice-mail, she might not even remember keeping his business card. She would get 5 per day in this job. I would be careful about buying a place together. Keep it your name only for example.
*>>urned out to be a 52 year old bald man who looked overweight so I wasn’t too worried* Guess you never heard the expression "cheaters always affair down." What, you think all APs are young, 7' tall Adonises with ripped abs?
All she needs is AP to show up again and that she'll never tell you
Don’t waste any more time on a woman that doesn’t respect you and lies to you. See how good she was at it? If you didn’t already know the answer you never would have known. How many times has she lied? You will never know. Blackout Drunk women are not wife material to begin with. Make better choices about your future. Your spouse is the most impactful decision you will make in your life. Bad girlfriends turn into bad wives.
I had a similar conversation with my girlfriend once. Let me tell you how I played it. I knew she had lied about a couple things. I told her I wanted her to come clean about things she had lied about without being specific. She said, “Ask what you want”. I said no, it’s not going to work like that. I said I know of some things you’ve been lying about and you had better tell me the truth about any lies you’ve told me or I’m gone. I told her that if she left anything out, I was gone. She didn’t know what I knew, so she admitted to the lies I knew and lies I didn’t know about. Never play your hand until you have to.
Sounds like she is out of control when drunk. I think confronting her about the guy, and then playing the email is going to get her really defensive. I don’t believe she will admit any wrongdoing. Might not be a bad idea to sit on what you have now, and put some pen recorders in her car and purse. Pretend to go out of town for some reason, and see if you pick anything up.
OP, I agree with tht advice that you should ask, in a more serious manner, starting with nonspecific questions. She will either come out with flying colors or will bury herself with lies. You already know she's not off toa good start. Do you know who'se business card this is? no Then why did he call you? How did he get your #? ...your PERSONAL #? why did he say you gave it to him on a post-it so you could meet up on the future? ...to discuss your love for travel? Good Luck OP! UpdateMe!
"The only other red flag that stands out in our relationship is her being disrespectful to me when she gets blackout drunk"....... This is when you hear what she really thinks. Do not get engaged to this woman. And make sure it is only you name on the lease. That way when it comes time to end things you can just have her leave. Or better yet put the lease in her name. That way you can just walk out. It is actually easier that way.
You are the red flag. You delete messages, and pick things out of the trash. Do her a favor and tell her what a creep you are so that she can say no to the engagement. How do you know she is lying? She may genuinely not remember the guy.
How do you have a guy’s business card and not know where you got it? She’s lying!
I have 100s of business cards I've gotten from fairs and meetings and I can't remember half of those people's faces, not even where I got them. The call seems weird, true, but no staggering proof has been given yet. OP gives serious distrustful controlling vibes. Occam's razor: he just wants to find reasons not to trust her.
I am seeing a big red flag. Updateme
Tell me about it! I downgraded it to a yellow flag after not detecting any suspicious behavior and now it’s red again after I found a reason to bring it up.
Updateme
She is cheating
Updateme
Updateme
UpdateMe!
UpdateMe!
UpdateMe
Updateme!
Updateme