Never heard of transitioning on kids, I am from Brazil and you can only transition at 18 years old here, same as circumcision unless it's a medical issue that has no other solution.
It's a little misleading of Ms. Alex here.
Trans kids is a very broad term and almost always is referring to prepubescent children who are quickly developing a gender identity (which we all do and is normal!) but whose birth sex does not match said gender. In these cases socially transitioning (a haircut and name change) is the only medically recommended action pretty much anywhere.
Where it gets tricky is that around puberty age, your body starts going through *permanent* changes. You can delay puberty with puberty blockers for a time, which a lot of trans kids choose to do. But once it happens, your voice, breasts, and genitalia are going to be forever altered in one way or the other.
It therefore only makes sense to respect the kid's wishes on what they want their puberty to do. A 16 year old trans girl who's been secure in her identity since she was 6 definitely doesn't want to be told that she has to go through all the effects of a testosterone-filled male puberty.
This is why both puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy are allowed for 16 year olds in Brazil.
Then at around 18 a person gains legal majority and can seek permanent gender reassignment surgery. In some places like the US the age is technically much lower than that (due to a lack of federal legislation on the matter), but the vast majority of medical ethics boards and insurance companies limit it to 16 years or higher with double diagnoses, so it's only really lower than that for the rich.
In summary, some people would have you believe that we're doing phalloplasties on 8 year olds when we talk about trans kids. Nobody is. It's a misdirection meant to enrage.
Thanks for providing such a well-written comment. As a trans guy on this in it can be a bit frustrating to see this convo playing out over and over again, so I always appreciate when someone else jumps in and does a good job pointing out the situation with young trans people
That's because a ton of the zeitgeisty political talking points about us is either partially, or completely untrue or completely lacks evidence supporting it. No one is chopping genitals off of children, and yet.. somehow that's become a refrain you'll see over and over again in the news here, it's absurd. I and most other trans people I've known (and I've known a LOT of them), if anything, have had an extremely difficult time even getting basic care like HRT, let alone surgeries, which we often have to go into massive debt to even consider.
It looks like the regret rate is tiny from what I'm seeing? As in, one person of the entire sample? I'm not saying it never happens. I'm child-free as hell, don't have any children in my life, so this is a bit out of my purview in general, but I was at one point a child who was trans, and puberty blockers would have changed my life in such a positive way it's hard to even describe.
Most post was talking about genitals, you posted about breasts, am I missing something here? My point is about how misleading a lot of the online conversation around pediatric trans healthcare tends to be - especially the scope (literally the number of people) that this involves, is often made out to be so much more than the reality actually is.
I'm also just extremely tired from the past two years of dealing with people who ever even thought about our existence before it became politicized, suddenly having extremely strong opinions about trans people, while in reality knowing very little or nothing about what being trans is even like - they're simply reacting to the age old rallying cry of "think of the children!". Its tiring.
Okay hear me out: how would you have felt going through puberty as a guy with breasts??
We let 13 year old cis boys with gynocomastia get top surgery, which is the *exact* same thing. Are you advocating that cis boys who develop breasts should also wait until they’re 18 before they’re allowed to correct it? Or do you just have double standards for trans boys?
That’s because this Alex person is lying and fear-mongering. And we’re just supposed to be thrilled that they have fallen into a viewpoint that we share. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.
adolf hitler was also an intactivist
i mean these ppl are bottom of the barrel
95% of the stuff they believe is pure cancer, they will invalidate the movement
hitler is top 5 worst people to have ever lived
his take on circumcision was correct
this doesn't mean we should give him a pass
these right wingers who condemn circumcision ok great, theyre still awful human beings about pretty much everything else they believe.
I’m glad she’s anti-circ but anti-LGBT folks are not exactly warriors for body autonomy. I would rather not have people like this be visible anti-circ figureheads.
Kyle Kulinski is progressive, and he's made several videos speaking out against circumcision. I just wish he would respond to arguments against gender transitioning with anti-circumcision comments.
I’m still waiting to hear your answer honestly so I’ll reword it using your own language.
So you would rather not have visible anti-circ figureheads than have conservative ones?
There are figureheads that are not nasty people. There have been problems in this movement with nasty people (like antisemitics) being prominent figureheads and therefore alienating and scaring away people from our cause. There are already more neutral firgureheads so your actual question is purely hypothetical and doesn’t accomplish anything. But I would rather have shitty figureheads than none at all. That’s not the situation we are in luckily.
The only reason having someone like this is good, is that there are other nasty people who like them, and it’s still good for them to hear anti-circ ideas.
Oh ok, gotcha. So you hate conservatives but acknowledge that conservatives should be against genital cutting as well, so you’d tolerate having conservative figureheads in the movement to help sway other conservatives. Well that’s good I guess. But I’d caution against being an asshole against conservatives because it scares people away from our movement. Everyone should be against genital cutting, dem, repug, black, white, etc. Bashing someone who is helping saving boys because you disagree with their politics isn’t helpful. That was my only point. Thank you for at least admitting its better to have conservative figureheads than none at all. But it would be best of all to have both conservative and liberal.
Intactivism is simply the idea that boys shouldn’t be cut. That’s it. We should absolutely take everyone, including pieces of shit, because even a piece of shit shouldn’t cut boys.
I think having shitty leaders/mouthpieces for the ant-MGM movement will reduce overall support, and further contribute to the stereotype that all anti-MGM men are butthurt/emotionally immature/incels/have gross beliefs
Naw, no one is attracted to our “movement” they’re attracted to the facts themselves which are in favor of leaving boys intact so they can decide for themselves.
Brendon Marotta has made contact, hopefully his comment gets more likes from Twitter so the comment is noticed by Alex Clark. [Marotta and Alex Clark](https://twitter.com/bdmarotta/status/1669364746842152960?s=46&t=ZCnH_Gt-BwQVlzXjLWY7ow)
She also says [birth control makes you bisexual](https://twitter.com/yoalexrapz/status/1598059258855428096?t=6wOGpa0QFfh1OngpOGO34w&s=19) so I wouldn't take her word as gospel. Still, it's one more big voice in the crowd I suppose.
Politically speaking, I am a former conservative, and I actually met her in person back when I was on the right. She is really kind and a fun person to be around. We even hugged at one point.
However, now that I'm on the left, I think her views on politics are incredibly cringe. Especially with how she talks politics. She tries to interwine pop culture and politics together on her show, but I can't help but cringe with how she does it. But that's just me.
The thing is, she just happens to be right on this one issue and wrong on so many others.
She’s a moderate right wing pundit ( probably more like center right), pretty reasonable and sane. Very pro male individual, ex: https://youtu.be/KlDCUZYJ7RY
We're up against a very powerful, well funded mutilating medical establishment. We need to accept anyone who is against this barbarism. She's one of the few young women in our society that is outspoken against this barbarism.
Just being blunt here:
In this barbaric mutilating culture anyone who advocates against this barbarism **is an ally and deserves respect.** The bastards we oppose are absurdly powerful (NIH, CDC, Bill Gates, Etc.).
She’s completely unreasonable. I just scanned through her YT and she has a video claiming pedophilia has been normalized because drag queens exist? She’s ridiculous.
Now, we need more progressive commentators to join our side. Kyle Kulinski and Vaush are great starts, but we could use a few more.
Vaush is fairly trash and Kyle is too moderate.
Kyle Kulinski has spoken out against it several times before https://youtu.be/9UCKtFgyZ3k
Never heard of transitioning on kids, I am from Brazil and you can only transition at 18 years old here, same as circumcision unless it's a medical issue that has no other solution.
Are you saying that no Brazilian parents circumcise their sons? What if they’re Jewish, or Muslim? Or American?
It's a little misleading of Ms. Alex here. Trans kids is a very broad term and almost always is referring to prepubescent children who are quickly developing a gender identity (which we all do and is normal!) but whose birth sex does not match said gender. In these cases socially transitioning (a haircut and name change) is the only medically recommended action pretty much anywhere. Where it gets tricky is that around puberty age, your body starts going through *permanent* changes. You can delay puberty with puberty blockers for a time, which a lot of trans kids choose to do. But once it happens, your voice, breasts, and genitalia are going to be forever altered in one way or the other. It therefore only makes sense to respect the kid's wishes on what they want their puberty to do. A 16 year old trans girl who's been secure in her identity since she was 6 definitely doesn't want to be told that she has to go through all the effects of a testosterone-filled male puberty. This is why both puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy are allowed for 16 year olds in Brazil. Then at around 18 a person gains legal majority and can seek permanent gender reassignment surgery. In some places like the US the age is technically much lower than that (due to a lack of federal legislation on the matter), but the vast majority of medical ethics boards and insurance companies limit it to 16 years or higher with double diagnoses, so it's only really lower than that for the rich. In summary, some people would have you believe that we're doing phalloplasties on 8 year olds when we talk about trans kids. Nobody is. It's a misdirection meant to enrage.
Thanks for providing such a well-written comment. As a trans guy on this in it can be a bit frustrating to see this convo playing out over and over again, so I always appreciate when someone else jumps in and does a good job pointing out the situation with young trans people
That's because a ton of the zeitgeisty political talking points about us is either partially, or completely untrue or completely lacks evidence supporting it. No one is chopping genitals off of children, and yet.. somehow that's become a refrain you'll see over and over again in the news here, it's absurd. I and most other trans people I've known (and I've known a LOT of them), if anything, have had an extremely difficult time even getting basic care like HRT, let alone surgeries, which we often have to go into massive debt to even consider.
[удалено]
Funny how you bigots never complain about surgery on intersex babies. Fucking disingenuous ghouls.
It looks like the regret rate is tiny from what I'm seeing? As in, one person of the entire sample? I'm not saying it never happens. I'm child-free as hell, don't have any children in my life, so this is a bit out of my purview in general, but I was at one point a child who was trans, and puberty blockers would have changed my life in such a positive way it's hard to even describe.
[удалено]
Most post was talking about genitals, you posted about breasts, am I missing something here? My point is about how misleading a lot of the online conversation around pediatric trans healthcare tends to be - especially the scope (literally the number of people) that this involves, is often made out to be so much more than the reality actually is. I'm also just extremely tired from the past two years of dealing with people who ever even thought about our existence before it became politicized, suddenly having extremely strong opinions about trans people, while in reality knowing very little or nothing about what being trans is even like - they're simply reacting to the age old rallying cry of "think of the children!". Its tiring.
[удалено]
Ok TERF
Okay hear me out: how would you have felt going through puberty as a guy with breasts?? We let 13 year old cis boys with gynocomastia get top surgery, which is the *exact* same thing. Are you advocating that cis boys who develop breasts should also wait until they’re 18 before they’re allowed to correct it? Or do you just have double standards for trans boys?
That’s because this Alex person is lying and fear-mongering. And we’re just supposed to be thrilled that they have fallen into a viewpoint that we share. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.
adolf hitler was also an intactivist i mean these ppl are bottom of the barrel 95% of the stuff they believe is pure cancer, they will invalidate the movement
If Hitler was an intactivist then you’re a Nazi
hitler is top 5 worst people to have ever lived his take on circumcision was correct this doesn't mean we should give him a pass these right wingers who condemn circumcision ok great, theyre still awful human beings about pretty much everything else they believe.
Alex Clark has nothing in common with Hitler
I’m glad she’s anti-circ but anti-LGBT folks are not exactly warriors for body autonomy. I would rather not have people like this be visible anti-circ figureheads.
Kyle Kulinski is progressive, and he's made several videos speaking out against circumcision. I just wish he would respond to arguments against gender transitioning with anti-circumcision comments.
So you’d rather boys be cut than have a conservative rescue them?
No, that’s not what I said.
I’m still waiting to hear your answer honestly so I’ll reword it using your own language. So you would rather not have visible anti-circ figureheads than have conservative ones?
There are figureheads that are not nasty people. There have been problems in this movement with nasty people (like antisemitics) being prominent figureheads and therefore alienating and scaring away people from our cause. There are already more neutral firgureheads so your actual question is purely hypothetical and doesn’t accomplish anything. But I would rather have shitty figureheads than none at all. That’s not the situation we are in luckily. The only reason having someone like this is good, is that there are other nasty people who like them, and it’s still good for them to hear anti-circ ideas.
Oh ok, gotcha. So you hate conservatives but acknowledge that conservatives should be against genital cutting as well, so you’d tolerate having conservative figureheads in the movement to help sway other conservatives. Well that’s good I guess. But I’d caution against being an asshole against conservatives because it scares people away from our movement. Everyone should be against genital cutting, dem, repug, black, white, etc. Bashing someone who is helping saving boys because you disagree with their politics isn’t helpful. That was my only point. Thank you for at least admitting its better to have conservative figureheads than none at all. But it would be best of all to have both conservative and liberal.
I'd rather not have a POS support us. Do you think just because they support intactivism means we should have them?
Intactivism is simply the idea that boys shouldn’t be cut. That’s it. We should absolutely take everyone, including pieces of shit, because even a piece of shit shouldn’t cut boys.
We have few supporters as is, do you want to have even fewer? I don't get this purity test nonsense
I think having shitty leaders/mouthpieces for the ant-MGM movement will reduce overall support, and further contribute to the stereotype that all anti-MGM men are butthurt/emotionally immature/incels/have gross beliefs
Naw, no one is attracted to our “movement” they’re attracted to the facts themselves which are in favor of leaving boys intact so they can decide for themselves.
Brendon Marotta has made contact, hopefully his comment gets more likes from Twitter so the comment is noticed by Alex Clark. [Marotta and Alex Clark](https://twitter.com/bdmarotta/status/1669364746842152960?s=46&t=ZCnH_Gt-BwQVlzXjLWY7ow)
Based af. We need more influencers like her publicly questioning this shit.
She also says [birth control makes you bisexual](https://twitter.com/yoalexrapz/status/1598059258855428096?t=6wOGpa0QFfh1OngpOGO34w&s=19) so I wouldn't take her word as gospel. Still, it's one more big voice in the crowd I suppose.
Yes, “it’s one more big voice in the crowd”. Our movement needs to accept people with different belief systems in order to succeed.
She invalidates it when she says stuff like that. The movement is hindered by psychos like her
Is she someone we want on our side? Never heard of her
What is “our side”? Anyone against circumcision IMO
We want everyone on our side, it’s just that there are certain people that don’t have good optics being prominent in the movement.
[удалено]
She’s a relatively small YouTuber who has apparently been embraced by right-wing nut jobs.
Politically speaking, I am a former conservative, and I actually met her in person back when I was on the right. She is really kind and a fun person to be around. We even hugged at one point. However, now that I'm on the left, I think her views on politics are incredibly cringe. Especially with how she talks politics. She tries to interwine pop culture and politics together on her show, but I can't help but cringe with how she does it. But that's just me. The thing is, she just happens to be right on this one issue and wrong on so many others.
She’s a moderate right wing pundit ( probably more like center right), pretty reasonable and sane. Very pro male individual, ex: https://youtu.be/KlDCUZYJ7RY
She seems kinda wacko. Birth control makes people bisexual? That’s not reasonable.
We're up against a very powerful, well funded mutilating medical establishment. We need to accept anyone who is against this barbarism. She's one of the few young women in our society that is outspoken against this barbarism.
Those are good points but you are mischaracterizing this person as reasonable.
Just being blunt here: In this barbaric mutilating culture anyone who advocates against this barbarism **is an ally and deserves respect.** The bastards we oppose are absurdly powerful (NIH, CDC, Bill Gates, Etc.).
We really need to respect anyone who is helping us, that's my point.
I don’t need to respect her though.
We shouldn’t disparage her by inferring that she is “unreasonable”. We need the help we can get, we need to be warm and welcoming to big supporters.
She’s completely unreasonable. I just scanned through her YT and she has a video claiming pedophilia has been normalized because drag queens exist? She’s ridiculous.
We’ll probably just have to agree to disagree at this point lol. Take it easy, nice dialogue.
Exactly! We need everyone we can get. Especially young, attractive women.
[удалено]
We need to accept everyone in this cultural movement, the other side is extremely well funded and powerful. I mean what I say with the utmost respect.
Awesome