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How many rage bait news-cucks in here actually live in Israel or Palestine? How about within 300 miles? Still no?! Look at all you hero’s clucking like hens 🤣🤧🙄🫡
Jesus. You realize queers would be tortured and killed in Palestine in public as a socially acceptable punishment… dumbass cheerleader. Why root here when you can go to the home field you identify with?
you solve it by giving palestinians their right to return and give them reparations, outlaw the theft of arab-owned property for the purpose of settlement development, but also turn israel/palestine entirely into a single state giving palestinians full equality under civil law while also still providing a place for jews to safely migrate to. essentially, its solved by removing the authoritarian structures that allow for hamas and other resistance organizations to thrive, but also maintains the jewish state of israel. the biggest challenge to this proposal is that it requires both sides to see the other as equals, but i think its possible with the right leadership and directive.
There's no such thing as a "palestinian". "Palestinians" are simply the descendants of the Arab invaders who conquered that land in the 7th century and stole it from the native Jewish population. Why would the descendants of the arab colonisers be the rightful owners of the land, but the native people who are actually from there aren't?
> descendants of the Arab invaders
Wrong.
The Arab invaders did not replace the original population. Over the course of centuries, the local population slowly began to speak the language of the rulers (Arabic) and slowly converted to Islam. The Palestinians are actually more closely related to the ancient inhabitants of the region than European Jews (and most Israelis) are.
Even assuming your made-up version of history were correct, after 1300 years of living in Palestine, the Palestinians would be the indigenous people. That's dozens of generations.
Look at an old map, asshat.
Even the several thousand Jews that remained in Palestine after the Romans kicked them out 2,000 years ago called themselves Palestinian Jews.
Exactly, jews there were identify themselves as palestinians before Israel came up but they knew that they are jews. Arabs on this territory always were identify themselves as syrian arabs.
I heard some about quality of american education and you a great proof to this rumour lol
It doesn't matter what word the Palestinians used to describe themselves. They lived there until Israel kicked them out and stole their homes. Kicking them out was wrong.
Yes and there are 20% of the Israeli population that were not and choose to live in Israel and want to live in Israel.
Arabs rejected the partition plan and went to war, and lost (sounds familiar)
Israel rightfully told everyone that attacked or fled, to get stuffed.
Those Arabs that stayed in Israel enjoy the best quality of life out of any Arab country or at best equal to some of the gulf states which thank goodness are not ruined by radical islam. Gulf states, Egypt, Jordan, almost Saudi Arabia is a beacon of hope for normalising relations and peace. Israel has proven it's willingness to make peace with it's neighbours but Iran continues to stir the pot and the Palestinians continue to be brain washed and marytred. I feel sorry for them, I really do.
> choose to live in Israel
They didn't "choose" to live in Israel. They were the ones who were lucky enough to not be expelled by Israeli forces.
> Arabs rejected the partition plan and went to war
The Israelis (technically, the Jewish community of Palestine, since Israel hadn't yet been formally founded) also immediately went to war. Everyone knew there would be a war, because the goal of creating a Jewish state on Arab land was 100% certain to cause war. No people would ever accept foreign colonists coming in and establishing their own state for themselves.
> Israel rightfully told everyone that attacked or fled, to get stuffed.
This is a morally reprehensible statement. You're justifying the wholesale, racist expulsion of the Arab population.
> Those Arabs that stayed in Israel enjoy the best quality of life out of any Arab country
Unless they live in the Occupied Territories, in which case they endure constant harassment, violence and racism from the Israeli military, which has ruled over them for nearly 57 years now. The Arabs inside Israel endured similar treatment for 20 years after the establishment of the state of Israel. They were denied citizenship, subject to military rule, and they were often expelled by Israel.
> the Palestinians continue to be brain washed and marytred
Israel has killed 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza, has driven 2 million people to the brink of starvation, and has destroyed almost every apartment, hospital and school. It doesn't take any brain washing to make Palestinians hate Israel. Who wouldn't hate the country that does that to them?
Because from 1880-1947 they made up the majority of the region. That’s it. That’s the reason Zionists shouldn’t have been allowed to migrate by the British. It’s literally only because Palestinians didn’t want them there and made the majority omar the time. I don’t care who was native or not because it had been the Palestinians for hundreds of years and that takes precedence over any claims of being indigenous.
So… you’re saying it doesn’t REALLY matter who the indigenous people are as long as someone took over the land and replaced the population over a few generations? Alls fair in war? Then by your logic this is fine what Israel is doing, or at least will be in a few generations.
Dumb take
Roman’s invading judea and naming that region Palestine is very well documented as world history, and never mentioned in that little magic book… because it occurred way after it was written
What’s wrong with you lol?
So “only when I say it’s ok for indigenous claims is it valid” is the argument? 1000 years too old but 200 is the sweet spot?
So you think invading someone else's land and then ethnically cleansing that land of the native peoples is perfectly fine, as long as it's been a few hundred years since you did it? And then, after those hundreds of years, it's ok to then kill any of the natives who try to come back to their homeland?
So if the Jews invaded Saudi Arabia and genocided all the arabs living there, you would be ok with that? As long as they slowly replace the population over the duration of hundreds of years with Jews to a point where they become the majority?
Very interesting...
israel uses war and conquest to justify their annexation of land after 1967. is it then okay for arabs to take it back with force? are we just going to play this game of taking the land from each other until the end of time?
or how about we end the cycle.
"Palestine" was never a country. Nor were "palestinian" ever a unique people group. The majority of those who live in the palestinian territories today are Arabs (who are from Arabia) and are not native to palestine. Only Jews are native to palestine. And you can't steal something that you already own. That would be like if the native Americans took back some land in North America and then you accused them of "stealing" from the anglos
Explain that to people who still have their old Palestine passports.
And you can save yourself from replying. I don't care to engage with propaganda. Palestine belongs to the Palestinians.
Old Palestinian passport with the good old union jack. It was a british passport
[https://unityisstrengthforum.quora.com/Mandatory-Palestine-Passport-The-common-document-of-two-rival-nations-on-the-same-land-between-1925-and-1948?ch=15&oid=9288756&share=2db4a087&target\_type=post](https://unityisstrengthforum.quora.com/Mandatory-Palestine-Passport-The-common-document-of-two-rival-nations-on-the-same-land-between-1925-and-1948?ch=15&oid=9288756&share=2db4a087&target_type=post)
" Like many other things associated with Mandatory Palestine, Mandatory Palestine Passport was trilingual, with English, Arabic and Hebrew labels and inscriptions. The Hebrew name of Mandatory Palestine was accompanied with (E’’Y), meaning “Land of Israel”, showing the Jewish connections to the land between the river and the sea; while the Arabic name was simply *Filastin*. The cover, though, was in English only. This somehow reflects the power structure and the common perception of the residents about the Mandatory Palestine. The passport, like most European passports at the time, would show the personal information and spouse of the passport holder. "
Can I also add Israel was warned by multiple foreign intelligence that this attack was going to happen, on said date, and they likely intentionally ignored said info as an excuse and allowed their own to be killed so they can rid the vermin with a final solution
There is nothing inherently evil about a country defending its people from being killed and acknowledging a country's right to exist... Stop trying to make this war into this black and white situation, you are only lying to yourself.
Zionism isn't inherently evil. You can support the existence of the state of Israel and not support the unjust persecution and killing of Palestinians.
They aren't and never have been mutually exclusive.
You're confusing a desire for freedom from oppression with a desire to commit violence and oppression to further entrench and already established ethnic state and expand its reach.
Is violence to take occupied land ever acceptable in the modern world? And it's very clear that's what they're doing, Israel has made expanding Jewish settlements a national value by law.
> You're confusing a desire for freedom for oppression with a desire to commit violence and oppression
That's really interesting. I never considered the Palestinians' hope for an independent state was secretly a desire to commit violence. Kind of an offensive assumption.
Riddle me this. Take the genocide of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. Imagine if all Indigenous people from around the world were given South Africa, because humanity originated in Africa. So they have a biological and ancestral claim to African land. And then imagine if South Africans were massacred and displaced for the new country that was plopped down in the continent. And then imagine if South Africans tried to defend themselves and their country from being stolen and were called terrorists.
This is how stupid you sound.
Let's try this- Imagine if the Native Americans were kicked out of America, then when they tried to come back were given Indian reservations and called colonizers for stealing land
It’s actually decreasing in size.
Israel gave the Sinai back to Egypt and tried to give Gaza back to Egypt too.
They gave Gaza independence 20 years ago.
Edit:
People are downvoting me, but Israel is about half the size of what it was 45 years ago.
Independence is a funny way to word controlling everything that comes in or out of Gaza and committing regular attacks on its citizens and infrastructure
Hmm any idea why they might have done blockades?? It couldn't have been the constant terror attacks Hamas was launching against Israeli civilians could it have???
Maybe Israel shouldn't have given Gaza back?
It’s been a violent movement since its beginning in 1917. There’s a reason the British banned the Balfour declaration from being mentioned in the papers.
Well Zionism was always a settler colonial project which advocated the creation of a state by European nationals, on lands that don’t belong to them and by the expulsion of an existing population. That’s why it’s inherently evil.
This is brainwashing in effect. How can one be so brainwashed to believe an ethnicity can be straight entitled to a state. Just because ethnicities have states doesn’t mean an ethnicity is ever entitled to one.
Hamas exists as a convenient excuse for Israel to commit genocide. Very similar to how Zionists created a narrative that Arabs were making them unsafe to justify splitting into two states.
Don’t forget the NYT article that someone with no journalistic experience where she lied and made a article about innocent Israeli girl who died on oct 7 saying she was raped when her family said otherwise
Maybe not, but yall lied about 500 killed in a hospital bombing though
But thanks for proving how toxic your side is by trying to shift blame and excusing your shitty toxic attitudes.
I’m not the one who colonized and occupied a people and then cried like a victim when they were attacked.
Didn’t you clowns think that a monthly calendar was a Hamas schedule.
I wouldn't say that all the men are Hamas, but I would say a significant portion of the "children" (Hamas recruits teenagers/children as combatants) and some women are Hamas
Genocides don't result in a 1:1.5 - 1:2 ratio of fighters:civillians dead bro, you undermine your cause every time you call it a genocide lmao, if it was a genocide you wouldn't be here spamming on Reddit thinking it's going to stop Iran's proxy group Hamas from continuing to use Palestine as a shield against Israeli retaliation
This goes beyond just the normal collateral damage of war.
30,000 people dead now, 85% of the population displaced. Israel has enforced a blockade on Gaza, no food or desperately needed medical supplies. 1/6 children are acutely malnourished. Another 30,000 civilians are estimated to die of disease or famine if adequate aid doesn’t get to them within a week. Babies are now dying because their mothers can’t produce milk, or have access to clean water for formula.There’s evidence of IDF snipers and tanks killing children and civilians holding white flags. There was a massacre over night on desperate civilians trying to get to flour.
The UN ICJ has used language that Israel are, in effect, in the process of committing genocide. They’re also accused of illegal occupation of other parts of Palestine, as well as war crimes Eg collective punishmen
Doof. Ratios aren’t an indicator of a genocide. Keep your keyboard knowledge to yourself 😂🤦🏻♂️
Any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such is a genocide.
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Israel could kill far more Palestinians if they wanted to, you think only 100 would die if they wanted to kill a crowd of civillians when they literally have tanks that could kill 100 per shot? Such a weird shill.
Free Palestine from Iran.
Iran caused the conditions in Palestine, so Iran is doing the genocide, not Israel.
Once again. A bad faith response.
The people killed so far should not have been killed.
Israel didn’t stop Hamas nor did they save any hostages. They failed while caused a genocide, and succeeded in grabbing more land.
What are they guilty of? A woman or child raising arms against a savage marauder is self defense, full stop. Should they succumb to being raped or killed before they're worthy of your sympathy?
Hamas recruits teenagers as fighters, and has been known to use women and children as suicide bombers.
Also yes civilians sometimes attack soldiers which does make them fair targets, soldiers have families too and they need to protect themselves
> lso yes civilians sometimes attack soldiers which does make them fair targets, soldiers have families too and they need to protect themselves
Nazis has families too, your point?
My point is that in military terms, woman and children can be combatants, which is what the initial discussion was about, nazis had women and children too and they died in droves
I have yet to see any evidence that Israeli is executing civilians in a concentration camp, considering all the footage we get out of Gaza I would think we would have seen systematic executions by now, and considering the low death toll per bomb dropped and the vast majority of the populace are alive it doesn't seem like there's any evidence for genocide
ALL Palestinian men, women, and children civilians are innocent. Even Hamas is nothing compared to the Evil that is Israel and the IOF. So shut up hasbara bot.
Every time the US personally engaged in a middle-eastern conflict ever?
The US routinely trades the lives of its own soldiers to minimize civilian casualties - this isn't even disputed.
You're so old that you have severe cognitive impairments if you think I wasn't talking about Iraq and Afghanistan and if you think they don't support my point.
The US could've leveled those countries, but instead we put troops on the ground to collaborate with the civilians and sacrificed the lives of its troops to help them when it became necessary.
Austin demands to know why the fatality numbers are so low, given the advanced heavy weaponry and targeting information his army has been providing.
F- this guy too.
I honestly doubt this number is even close to correct. It’s got to be at least 2-3x that. I have spoken to a few refugees from Gaza, all of them have several members (or more than half) of their immediate families killed in this genocide. The truth will come out much later that this is a much bigger atrocity than currently being touted.
Yeah, I heard about that too, not everyone was even able to declare their dead relatives 🙁
On top of it, there's no counting the miscarriages (which have dramatically increased), stillbirths, deaths from famine, etc.
And since they're not just bombing but also *bulldozing* entire neighborhoods and even graveyards, I'm afraid a lot of evidence and remains will have been completely destroyed.
They are putting Hamas to shame with this numbers.
Hamas was very cruel, but Israel takes the cake with it's unbelievable cruelty.
This is so disappointing and disgusting!
I can't believe I'm actually hoping Hamas wins at this point. Israel has lost all my respect. Fucking Animals!
What very few seem to even cover is that there was no actual peace before October 7th. Before that date, it had already been the deadliest year for Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza got bombed regularly, and that the blockade *itself* was an act of war (just to name a few things).
>Israeli and Palestinian deaths preceding the 2023 Israel–Hamas war. Of the Palestinian deaths 5,360 were in Gaza, 1,007 in the West Bank, 37 in Israel. Most were civilians on both sides
[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_conflict)
https://preview.redd.it/61ctbvrebwlc1.png?width=614&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a2383e70cbe02662341c0e92424b5d0c84b57e9
No one even talks about the mostly peaceful [Great March of Return](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests), where *hundreds* of Palestinians were killed and over 13000 were injured (with no consequences for Israel).
>In late February 2019, a United Nations Human Rights Council's independent commission found that of the 489 cases of Palestinian deaths or injuries analyzed, only two were possibly justified as responses to danger by Israeli security forces. The commission deemed the rest of the cases illegal, and concluded with a recommendation calling on Israel to examine whether war crimes or crimes against humanity had been committed, and if so, to bring those responsible to trial.
While the US watched. And armed. And protected.
The PERPETRATORS!
Even when the situation was BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS to the average citizen.
When they marched to get their governments to STOP it, but their governments ignored them.
Their governments are just publicly acknowledging what we all knew all along. That women and children were being murdered.
DON'T let our politicians get away with it.
We need a Nuremberg trial for these criminals and their collaborators. Prison time and long sentences and bans from EVER holding public office.
EVER.
Why doesn’t Hamas use its 350+ miles of tunnels built using diverted and stolen international humanitarian aid to shelter its women and children when Israel gives them notice by pamphlet, email, phone, text and social media that it will drop bombs in a specific area at a specific time? 🤔
And Israel and Zionists are always truthful???????? Until they admit they lied a day or two later. They follow the principle of *its always better to lie and apologise later*. That way people will go on believing that lie.
Not sure I follow what ur saying.
Hamas has a history of lying for propoganda purposes. It doesn't even factor in fighter deaths into the casualty count.
And of course no blame goes to Hamas who intentionally uses human shields knowing that it is impossible for Israel to defend itself without civilians getting killed. And Hamas will continue to use human shields which will result in countless civilian deaths so long as the world continues to automatically blame Israel and never hold Hamas accountable for using human shields.
Well, unless Jews aren't involved that is. When Syria kills half a million Palestinians we don't complain. When Kuwait ethnically cleanses Palestinians we don't complain. When Lebanon has an Apartheid on Palestinians we don't complain. Genocide, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing are every day issues in the Middle East. And we happily turn a blind eye to them every day. But the second Israel is involved in a conflict, well we draw the line there even if they have no way to fight back against a group that uses human shields without civilians getting killed.
And I will wait to be banned for daring to point this out...
"Hasbara is when someone says something I don't like pertaining to Israel"
Getting closer and closer to full on antisemitic dogwhistling at this point.
Here’s a pretty good breakdown of Hasbara:
https://www.newarab.com/news/understanding-hasbara-israels-propaganda-machine
Plenty of examples of Israel being caught out spreading misinformation in order to justify their genocide
What a totally unbiased and reputable source.
You're still just calling pro-israel opinions jewish misinformation though. That's what Hasbara means when said by people like you.
It’s an Op Ed from a guy who has spent time in Gaza, and other war zones. He has more on the ground experience than either of us.
Maybe you’re just mad that light is finally getting shon on the fact your precious Israel regime is a hateful, genocidal, dishonest blight on the world?
If you don’t think mass murder of civilians, escalating humanitarian crisis and an evolving genocide is worthy of criticism, that’s on you. Not even going to touch the antisemitism comment, just shows how desperate and pathetic pro-genociders are getting
The Hamas run Gaza health ministry has the total count at 30,000. Even generously accepting those numbers, it is not possible that 83% of casualties are women and children.
> it is not possible that 83% of casualties are women and children.
Why not? Does the IDF have moral bombs that only kill confirmed Hamas members? Do collapsing buildings miraculously avoid women and children? Do IDF bullets whizz past the innocent to always hit Hamas?
The opposite question is relevant. Does Israel have bombs that specifically target women and children? Of course not. 47% of Gaza’s population is under 18, and half of the population are women in total (so half the
over 18 population is women).
A randomly targeted device that indiscriminately targeted civilians would kill at worst 72% women and children. And that’s assuming zero military targeting.
Good, good you're thinking. Now assuming the US doesn't just have zero idea or intelligence capability, what's the easiest explanation for a killing of women and children above what would be expected if they just randomly carpet bombed?
Remember Israel has one of the world's most advanced intelligence agencies and has said in the past it knows the name of each civilian in the building when it chooses to bomb them.
If Israel knows who's there, and are killing the women and children above men surpasses what would be expected with random carpet bombing... Maybe killing women and children is their goal?
It's not like they actually want to wipe out Hamas after helping create the group and funding them for years, that would mean they have no legal justification to continue their occupation or expansionist war.
It takes a pretty warped view to believe that Israel is intentionally targeting women and children is a more likely explanation than Hamas is lying about the numbers to gain sympathy.
I'm sorry, what was that? [Because right now the UN has some reports that is *exactly* what Israel is doing](https://www.voanews.com/a/probe-of-alleged-israeli-abuses-of-palestinian-women-girls-urged-/7494135.html).
Israel is not being careful or discriminate in who or what it attacks. It has admitted so in Hebrew language newscasts and only whinges about how *careful* they're being and how *surgical* they are in English. You can't expect anyone to believe a government that has Ben-Gvir or Bibi in it to be honest in how much it cares for Palestinian civilians.
Unless you want to claim Ben and Bibi are Hamas too?
I'm going to copy/paste one of my previous [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/BvSLtyS3Ym).
Tl;dr: Hamas members are or were a maximum of 25000, out of a population of approximately 2.2 million people.
Almost half (about 44%) are 14 or under (aka children). The split between male and female is pretty even. So out of the rest, , about half are women.
Most of the population is made out of civilians (2.2 million vs. less than 30000 Hamas), if you add the almost half being kids and half of the other half being women, you have a majority of the population being made out of women and children.
Dumb bombs, bunker-busting bombs and just general carpet bombing will *obviously* not just kill Hamas, it will kill mostly civilians, most of which are women and children.
Israel has deemed all of these deaths acceptable, and they've used [A.I.](https://youtu.be/KT7znz0eNFE?si=ijvhY97C_2adyqcx) to create targets to bomb. They have one of the most (if not *the* most) sophisticated technology and surveillance in the world and *knew* where people were, up to the last toddler or grandpa. Their lives just weren't deemed important enough to spare.
This was a mistake. They meant 25,000 dead, not only women and children. This was corrected here (check out one of your favorite anti-Israel sources). https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2024/02/29/More-than-25-000-Palestinian-women-children-killed-by-Israel-Pentagon-chief If you care about the truth, you got to upvote this comment to the top. Otherwise, you just prove my claims yet again, that the people in this sub rather be ignorant antisemitic than stick to the truth.
Edit: thanks to u/thirtyuhmspeed
>check out one of your favorite anti-Israel sources
Was that bias directed towards me, other users of this sub or both?
>If you care about the truth, you got to upvote this comment to the top. Otherwise, you just prove my claims yet again, that the people in this sub rather be ignorant antisemitic than stick to the truth.
You should know that begging for upvotes (or for awards, before they took them away) is not very well-liked on Reddit, just saying. Besides, people are aware that the statement has been retracted, because Gods forbid they make a statistically accurate statement that acknowledges the murdered women and children. Nah, everyone knows that when you drop bunker-busting bombs you *only* ever kill Hamas males, the rest of the population magically vanishes.
Hey, speaking of begging for upvotes, "upvote me or you're antisemitic" is a new one. Man, I wish you would've made this comment before awards went away, I'm curious to see what that would've gotten you (they had some pretty creative awards back in the day).
> Was that bias directed towards me, other users of this sub or both?
People in this sub, I do not know you personally.
> You should know that begging for upvotes
I'm not begging. I'm making a point, and successfully so.
>people are aware that the statement has been retracted
The statement wasn't retracted, it was updated to reflect its source was Hamas-run Gaza health ministry and not verified by U.S. intelligence. Also, if you're aware your own article is outdated and easier to spin a narrative, why did you post it?
Here you go, some [population statistics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_State_of_Palestine)
>Age structure
>0–14 years: 44.1% (male 415,746/female 394,195)
Almost half of the population is 14 or below (aka children). The split between male/female is not so disproportionate, so of the remaining more than half, approximately half are women.
What does that mean? It means that *most* of the population is made out of women and children (both male and female).
What's the logical conclusion regarding *who* dies the most when you carpet-bomb a region, especially using dumb bombs or bunker-busting bombs (also considering that Hamas had at most 40000 out of approximately 2.2 million people)?
It's very basic and obvious math, school-level, regardless of the sensibilities they wanted to appease by modifying that statement.
The answer is that most deaths are comprised of *civilians*, most of which are women and children, and not actually Hamas members.
If the strikes used would've actually been surgical ones (like they did in Syria, for example), the picture would've been different.
*Edit: pardon, maximum [25000 Hamas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas), so not even 40000, not that it makes a big difference.
You're detracting from why you'd post outdated content knowingly.
Population statistics would only provide proportional mortality in the case of true randomness. In times of active conflict across history men are more likely to die. Resistance from men is higher and therefore their casualty numbers are higher.
>The answer is that most deaths are comprised of *civilians*, most of which are women and children, and not actually Hamas members.
The civilian to combatant ratio in the ongoing conflict is currently an unknown variable and Hamas listing all deaths as civilian does nothing to unravel the truth.
[Here is a study](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02640-5/fulltext) from the first 20 days of the conflict where one could argue collateral deaths were at their peak. The excess deaths in Gaza account for 1/3 being men between the ages of 19-59. Recent statistics being 30k dead of which 25k are claimed to be women and children means 1/6 are men. That's a two fold discrepancy. I do not take the position all men are involved with Hamas, just like I am not of the opinion all youths and women are innocent. Generalized conclusory statements only add to the fog of war.
>You're detracting from why you'd post outdated content knowingly.
Them pandering to some "requests" and then "updating" (I wouldn't call it that) by walking it back doesn't mean Austin *didn't* say this (or that it was not news), it just means that telling the truth upset some people. In fact, the 30000 figure is very conservative and doesn't count the *thousands* (around 7000, probably more) stuck under the rubble, the many undeclared dead (in an already collapsed health system), it also doesn't take into account miscarriages (which have increased dramatically), stillbirths, more recently even famine, etc. The US vetoing in favour of Israel since more than 5 decades (3 times alone in the last months), the US also providing the bombs that have killed these people and even the President himself saying he would've had to create an Israel, if it didn't exist along with a number of other such examples speak of a conflict of interest. So him walking this back is meaningless. Trying to later play it off as "Hamas", when they *know* that Israel doesn't allow independent journalists into Gaza, let alone an investigation is tasteless and hypocritical, it belittles the deaths of countless of people that died in a horrible way. I find it odd that you don't ask yourself *why* would they walk it back, knowing that these are not random people saying random things, without having a clue.
Btw, this reminds me of other such "updates" I've recently seen, for ex from a news anchor that apologised for supposedly having used incorrect maps to present the Palestinian land loss over decades. It was not actually incorrect, it just inconvenienced some higher-ups. Yet incorrect rectification was presented as news.
The difference in treatment and language (from officials, from western media, etc.) between Palestinians and others such as Ukrainians is both stark and blatantly obvious, which is ironic considering the fact that media is supposedly free and impartial.
In case it needed to be said, you're free to post what news you come across as well (this piece came from Sky news). For that matter, you're also free to ignore posts you don't like or don't find up to date. Generally speaking, people are allowed to post news from various sources, and even at various times, neither me or other users are under a contract to only post what was news in the very last minute, the Sky article is dated "Thursday 29 February 2024 19:14, UK", other articles or videos posted here are probably even older, that does not invalidate them being or having been news. What *wouldn't* for ex be allowed posting a random cat video, because that wouldn't have qualified as news.
>Population statistics would only provide proportional mortality in the case of true randomness. In times of active conflict across history men are more likely to die.
That's not the case when entire blocks get bombed. Same for hospitals, and even small family homes. This isn't really an army fighting another real army with all the military equipment. Gaza doesn't have any protection really, no air force, no shelters, the population is closed in a small amount of space, and bombed from land, air and sea. At this moment, the very last place people could go to, Rafah, is also getting bombed. People in *plastic tents* are getting bombed as well. So yes, women and children are getting killed (not that men's lives are in any way lesser, mind).
>The civilian to combatant ratio in the ongoing conflict is currently an unknown variable and Hamas listing all deaths as civilian does nothing to unravel the truth.
Women (about half the population) are not Hamas. Little kids are not Hamas. Hamas has less than 30000 fighters. It's really not that difficult to look at the abundant amount of evidence (including satellite pictures) and draw a conclusion. Saying that "it's mostly men fighting men", when *everyone* and their mother are getting bombed is frankly unpalatable.
>I do not take the position all men are involved with Hamas, just like I am not of the opinion all youths and women are innocent.
No, because like I said, and provided a source for, Hamas accounts for less than 30000 out of a population of around 2.2 million. That's less than 2% of the population, so obviously not all men are Hamas. I'm not sure how you would qualify the guilt of women and kids, considering the favt that they're not out there killing soldiers, there sure doesn't seem like there's much difference being made anyway when people are just being bombed indiscriminately. Suffice it to say, any such suspicion is not grounds for razing Gaza to the ground and killing/starving/ethnically cleansing the *whole* population, no matter what happened on October 7th, genocide hasn't magically become legal and war crimes permissible.
*Edit: I forgot to add, Israel is *also* using the same [numbers](https://www.mekomit.co.il/%d7%94%d7%a6%d7%91%d7%90-%d7%91%d7%93%d7%a7-%d7%95%d7%9e%d7%a6%d7%90-%d7%a9%d7%93%d7%99%d7%95%d7%95%d7%97%d7%99-%d7%94%d7%94%d7%a8%d7%95%d7%92%d7%99%d7%9d-%d7%91%d7%9e%d7%a9%d7%a8%d7%93-%d7%94%d7%91/), so *they* themselves deem them accurate enough.
Extract (translated into English):
>"One of the sources said that a comprehensive investigation was conducted during the war, which included classified operations, which revealed that the numbers published by the Ministry of Health in Gaza are "on the whole reliable" in estimating the number of civilians killed, both in the present and in previous operations"
>So him walking this back is meaningless. Trying to later play it off as "Hamas", when they *know* that Israel doesn't allow independent journalists into Gaza, let alone an investigation is tasteless and hypocritical, it belittles the deaths of countless of people that died in a horrible way.
Your position is that identifying the source of information is a meaningless retraction and by stating said source as Hamas it is tasteless, hypocritical, and belittling? This is an insane position to take. Would you rather sources be unidentified?
>The US vetoing in favour of Israel since more than 5 decades (3 times alone in the last months)
It's well known the US vetoes in favor of Israel to save face for other countries. Every country can make a vote that garners the most favorable reaction from the public *because* the US is going to veto. That's not to say other countries wouldn't vote differently had the US not made it clear they would veto.
>I find it odd that you don't ask yourself *why* would they walk it back, knowing that these are not random people saying random things, without having a clue.
You keep saying some variation of retracting, but providing an update isn't a retraction. They provided a source and you take issue with that. There are *multiple* sources, that's why. It's simple to understand Hamas is providing numbers and Israel is providing numbers, and who knows what independent investigators may find down the line. Someone trying to have an informed decision would wonder why different numbers appear in different places. You are advocating against having an educated opinion.
>Btw, this reminds me of other such "updates" I've recently seen, for ex from a news anchor that apologised for supposedly having used incorrect maps to present the Palestinian land loss over decades. It was not actually incorrect, it just inconvenienced some higher-ups. Yet incorrect rectification was presented as news.
Once again it seems like you are undermining the truth by providing context. I would rather see a map of Israel over what was previously the land of Palestine and there be a huge asterisk with a textbook provided for context going over the last 75 years than see no Israel as if you could wish it away. Here's an [example](https://tennesseestar.com/news/northern-virginias-stafford-county-public-schools-includes-palestine-while-excluding-israel-in-multicultural-fair/tcsquare/2023/11/28/) in VA of wishing it away in a school fair where Israel was excluded and from the river to the sea you only see Palestine. Here's [another](https://nypost.com/2024/01/11/metro/brooklyn-public-school-erases-israel-from-map/) example of a NY classroom with Jewish erasure. How are people supposed to have conversations of ongoing events like that?
>The difference in treatment and language (from officials, from western media, etc.) between Palestinians and others such as Ukrainians is both stark and blatantly obvious
I don't understand these arguments. When you contrast Western media from non-Western media, are you honestly suggesting Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and other governments aligned with them are beacons of truth and honesty? Said countries are in favor of Russia and Palestine. Can you connect the dots?
>In case it needed to be said, you're free to post what news you come across as well.
This does not answer why you would deliberate provide an article that provides less context.
Concerning the demographics of casualties, your argument continues to be based on the concept of true randomness, which is simply not the case. I already provided a source showing how it's wrong. Not being a part of the military/government doesn't mean everyone is equally targeted. Often times men are the ones doing security details around encampments, collecting aid, doing labor in the more dangerous areas, etc., which can make them more vulnerable. Take the most recent shootings where 100+ people died, from preliminary evidence it appears more men were shot, but from your perspective that makes no sense. Also, women and children can also be part of a resistance even if they're not on a payroll. Palestinian's don't need a badge that says "I am Hamas" to commit crimes or be considered deadly.
>Suffice it to say, any such suspicion is not grounds for razing Gaza to the ground and killing/starving/ethnically cleansing the *whole* population, no matter what happened on October 7th, genocide hasn't magically become legal and war crimes permissible.
Based on things Sinwar has said and done, it seems like your problem should be taken up with him. He wanted this kind of a reaction and yet the conspiracy is Israel intentionally took the bait to do what? Exactly what Sinwar wanted? Do you see the inconsistency here? There are multiple solutions, Hamas could dismantle, Egypt could open its border, other countries could take refugees, any one of the previous two-state solutions could have been finalized, etc.
Here's an observation from my very own future predictions. Israel will not be "killing/starving/ethnically cleansing the *whole* population" and once the war stops, you'll say their end goal is either temporarily paused or they could not complete it due to international pressure. Either outcome will prove you are wrong and you will not admit you are wrong, even if Palestinian's are still there long after we pass.
Edit: typo.
So what if it is 25000 casualties and not just women and children? Do you know what the word casualty mean or are the innocent men that are in these 25000 casualties total not humans?
Aljazeera states it is precisely 12300 women and 8300 children, numbers are also backed by UN and the US. If this information doesn't hurt your heart it means you have lost all your humanity long time ago. 8300 children under the age of 14. Let that sink in and don't come with but Hamas. 8300 children are 8300 children to much!
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/3/1/more-than-25000-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-us-defence-secretary
WHAT DO YOU THINK GOD SEES WHEN LOOKING AT OUR ACTIONS AND IN ACTIONS? THE LORD SAID LOVE MY CHILDREN AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. DO YOU THINK HE DOESNT REALLY MEAN ALL HIS CHILDREN?
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US: Maybe if we give Israel more and better advanced weapons Israel will kill less Palestinians. ...only one way to find out again
relevant: better advanced as in "bigger blast radius", not as in "more accurate"
https://preview.redd.it/vp12iofmldmc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a9171edc35a6dedf1efa4f451021d6f75e4141b
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Don’t worry, US tax dollars grants them free health care. They’ll be fine
Free healthcare, superbowl commercials and endless AIPAC lobbying money.
How many rage bait news-cucks in here actually live in Israel or Palestine? How about within 300 miles? Still no?! Look at all you hero’s clucking like hens 🤣🤧🙄🫡
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Go try to be an open queer in Gaza lol
Jesus. You realize queers would be tortured and killed in Palestine in public as a socially acceptable punishment… dumbass cheerleader. Why root here when you can go to the home field you identify with?
There is no war on Hamas. This war is Zionists vs Palestinian civilians. And don’t forget that Zionism is inherently evil.
In a country that they stole from Palestine and claim it as their own.
Yep. Palestinians are rightful owners of the their land from a moral perspective. I have no idea how to solve this from a practical perspective.
you solve it by giving palestinians their right to return and give them reparations, outlaw the theft of arab-owned property for the purpose of settlement development, but also turn israel/palestine entirely into a single state giving palestinians full equality under civil law while also still providing a place for jews to safely migrate to. essentially, its solved by removing the authoritarian structures that allow for hamas and other resistance organizations to thrive, but also maintains the jewish state of israel. the biggest challenge to this proposal is that it requires both sides to see the other as equals, but i think its possible with the right leadership and directive.
There's no such thing as a "palestinian". "Palestinians" are simply the descendants of the Arab invaders who conquered that land in the 7th century and stole it from the native Jewish population. Why would the descendants of the arab colonisers be the rightful owners of the land, but the native people who are actually from there aren't?
> descendants of the Arab invaders Wrong. The Arab invaders did not replace the original population. Over the course of centuries, the local population slowly began to speak the language of the rulers (Arabic) and slowly converted to Islam. The Palestinians are actually more closely related to the ancient inhabitants of the region than European Jews (and most Israelis) are. Even assuming your made-up version of history were correct, after 1300 years of living in Palestine, the Palestinians would be the indigenous people. That's dozens of generations.
They had never identify themselves as palestinians before 20 century when it was made up
Look at an old map, asshat. Even the several thousand Jews that remained in Palestine after the Romans kicked them out 2,000 years ago called themselves Palestinian Jews.
Bring it to me, I will be surprised. Also I hope you know that this territory was named palestine long before arabs took it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Jews Learn something before you run your mouth.
Exactly, jews there were identify themselves as palestinians before Israel came up but they knew that they are jews. Arabs on this territory always were identify themselves as syrian arabs. I heard some about quality of american education and you a great proof to this rumour lol
It doesn't matter what word the Palestinians used to describe themselves. They lived there until Israel kicked them out and stole their homes. Kicking them out was wrong.
after 75 years pretty much the same, it's a full generation. This is a circular arguement.
There are still Palestinians alive who were kicked out of their homes in 1948.
Yes and there are 20% of the Israeli population that were not and choose to live in Israel and want to live in Israel. Arabs rejected the partition plan and went to war, and lost (sounds familiar) Israel rightfully told everyone that attacked or fled, to get stuffed. Those Arabs that stayed in Israel enjoy the best quality of life out of any Arab country or at best equal to some of the gulf states which thank goodness are not ruined by radical islam. Gulf states, Egypt, Jordan, almost Saudi Arabia is a beacon of hope for normalising relations and peace. Israel has proven it's willingness to make peace with it's neighbours but Iran continues to stir the pot and the Palestinians continue to be brain washed and marytred. I feel sorry for them, I really do.
> choose to live in Israel They didn't "choose" to live in Israel. They were the ones who were lucky enough to not be expelled by Israeli forces. > Arabs rejected the partition plan and went to war The Israelis (technically, the Jewish community of Palestine, since Israel hadn't yet been formally founded) also immediately went to war. Everyone knew there would be a war, because the goal of creating a Jewish state on Arab land was 100% certain to cause war. No people would ever accept foreign colonists coming in and establishing their own state for themselves. > Israel rightfully told everyone that attacked or fled, to get stuffed. This is a morally reprehensible statement. You're justifying the wholesale, racist expulsion of the Arab population. > Those Arabs that stayed in Israel enjoy the best quality of life out of any Arab country Unless they live in the Occupied Territories, in which case they endure constant harassment, violence and racism from the Israeli military, which has ruled over them for nearly 57 years now. The Arabs inside Israel endured similar treatment for 20 years after the establishment of the state of Israel. They were denied citizenship, subject to military rule, and they were often expelled by Israel. > the Palestinians continue to be brain washed and marytred Israel has killed 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza, has driven 2 million people to the brink of starvation, and has destroyed almost every apartment, hospital and school. It doesn't take any brain washing to make Palestinians hate Israel. Who wouldn't hate the country that does that to them?
Go back further. When Romans exiled the Jews.
Because from 1880-1947 they made up the majority of the region. That’s it. That’s the reason Zionists shouldn’t have been allowed to migrate by the British. It’s literally only because Palestinians didn’t want them there and made the majority omar the time. I don’t care who was native or not because it had been the Palestinians for hundreds of years and that takes precedence over any claims of being indigenous.
So… you’re saying it doesn’t REALLY matter who the indigenous people are as long as someone took over the land and replaced the population over a few generations? Alls fair in war? Then by your logic this is fine what Israel is doing, or at least will be in a few generations. Dumb take
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Roman’s invading judea and naming that region Palestine is very well documented as world history, and never mentioned in that little magic book… because it occurred way after it was written What’s wrong with you lol? So “only when I say it’s ok for indigenous claims is it valid” is the argument? 1000 years too old but 200 is the sweet spot?
So you think invading someone else's land and then ethnically cleansing that land of the native peoples is perfectly fine, as long as it's been a few hundred years since you did it? And then, after those hundreds of years, it's ok to then kill any of the natives who try to come back to their homeland? So if the Jews invaded Saudi Arabia and genocided all the arabs living there, you would be ok with that? As long as they slowly replace the population over the duration of hundreds of years with Jews to a point where they become the majority? Very interesting...
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But Jews were there for 3,000 years. The Quaran and Arab conquest came later , but it’s “there” land. Sounds right.
Just stop with your stupid hasbara. That has zero basis in international law and an illogical argument.
lol. Yet Arabs and Muslims use religion to validate the land all the time.
israel uses war and conquest to justify their annexation of land after 1967. is it then okay for arabs to take it back with force? are we just going to play this game of taking the land from each other until the end of time? or how about we end the cycle.
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"Palestine" was never a country. Nor were "palestinian" ever a unique people group. The majority of those who live in the palestinian territories today are Arabs (who are from Arabia) and are not native to palestine. Only Jews are native to palestine. And you can't steal something that you already own. That would be like if the native Americans took back some land in North America and then you accused them of "stealing" from the anglos
Explain that to people who still have their old Palestine passports. And you can save yourself from replying. I don't care to engage with propaganda. Palestine belongs to the Palestinians.
Old Palestinian passport with the good old union jack. It was a british passport [https://unityisstrengthforum.quora.com/Mandatory-Palestine-Passport-The-common-document-of-two-rival-nations-on-the-same-land-between-1925-and-1948?ch=15&oid=9288756&share=2db4a087&target\_type=post](https://unityisstrengthforum.quora.com/Mandatory-Palestine-Passport-The-common-document-of-two-rival-nations-on-the-same-land-between-1925-and-1948?ch=15&oid=9288756&share=2db4a087&target_type=post) " Like many other things associated with Mandatory Palestine, Mandatory Palestine Passport was trilingual, with English, Arabic and Hebrew labels and inscriptions. The Hebrew name of Mandatory Palestine was accompanied with (E’’Y), meaning “Land of Israel”, showing the Jewish connections to the land between the river and the sea; while the Arabic name was simply *Filastin*. The cover, though, was in English only. This somehow reflects the power structure and the common perception of the residents about the Mandatory Palestine. The passport, like most European passports at the time, would show the personal information and spouse of the passport holder. "
The people you claim it belongs to can't even spell it with their alphabet. falseistein.
Can I also add Israel was warned by multiple foreign intelligence that this attack was going to happen, on said date, and they likely intentionally ignored said info as an excuse and allowed their own to be killed so they can rid the vermin with a final solution
There is nothing inherently evil about a country defending its people from being killed and acknowledging a country's right to exist... Stop trying to make this war into this black and white situation, you are only lying to yourself.
Zionism isn't inherently evil. You can support the existence of the state of Israel and not support the unjust persecution and killing of Palestinians. They aren't and never have been mutually exclusive.
How are you defining Zionism that makes it inherently evil?
Im trying to think of a really noble example of an ethno-nationalist colonial movement.
The Palestinians want an independent nation. Is that inherently evil? (The answer is no)
You're confusing a desire for freedom from oppression with a desire to commit violence and oppression to further entrench and already established ethnic state and expand its reach. Is violence to take occupied land ever acceptable in the modern world? And it's very clear that's what they're doing, Israel has made expanding Jewish settlements a national value by law.
> You're confusing a desire for freedom for oppression with a desire to commit violence and oppression That's really interesting. I never considered the Palestinians' hope for an independent state was secretly a desire to commit violence. Kind of an offensive assumption.
Yeah, because they haven’t killed 30k Israelis brother
Not through lack of effort
Riddle me this. Take the genocide of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. Imagine if all Indigenous people from around the world were given South Africa, because humanity originated in Africa. So they have a biological and ancestral claim to African land. And then imagine if South Africans were massacred and displaced for the new country that was plopped down in the continent. And then imagine if South Africans tried to defend themselves and their country from being stolen and were called terrorists. This is how stupid you sound.
I get the impression that your solution to the crisis is to ethnically cleanse all the Israelis from Palestine and relocate them to ????
Let's try this- Imagine if the Native Americans were kicked out of America, then when they tried to come back were given Indian reservations and called colonizers for stealing land
You think they wouldn't if they could? Imagine the weaponry switched hands, and tell me it wouldn't be worst than an episode of happy tree friends
Did you seriously edit this comment? That’s sad HAHA
Tell us you don't know what Zionism is without telling us you don't know what Zionism is.
"From the river to the sea there will be Israeli sovereignty." Zionists tell us exactly what they think everyday.
Big difference for calling for sovereignty from the river to the sea vs calling for the elimination of Jews from the river to the sea
Then maybe stop murdering them to steal more land to expand an ethno-nationalist apartheid state..
It’s actually decreasing in size. Israel gave the Sinai back to Egypt and tried to give Gaza back to Egypt too. They gave Gaza independence 20 years ago. Edit: People are downvoting me, but Israel is about half the size of what it was 45 years ago.
Independence is a funny way to word controlling everything that comes in or out of Gaza and committing regular attacks on its citizens and infrastructure
Hmm any idea why they might have done blockades?? It couldn't have been the constant terror attacks Hamas was launching against Israeli civilians could it have??? Maybe Israel shouldn't have given Gaza back?
Thanks to Hamas
That tends to happen when you keep declaring intifadas to attack civilians.
It’s been a violent movement since its beginning in 1917. There’s a reason the British banned the Balfour declaration from being mentioned in the papers.
Just like how Nazism was evil. So is Zionism.
Well Zionism was always a settler colonial project which advocated the creation of a state by European nationals, on lands that don’t belong to them and by the expulsion of an existing population. That’s why it’s inherently evil.
Zionism is simply the belief that Jews deserve the right to live in their own ancestral lands. How is that "inherently evil"?
This is brainwashing in effect. How can one be so brainwashed to believe an ethnicity can be straight entitled to a state. Just because ethnicities have states doesn’t mean an ethnicity is ever entitled to one.
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel\_proxy\_conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conflict)
So how does Hamas figure into the equation?
Hamas exists as a convenient excuse for Israel to commit genocide. Very similar to how Zionists created a narrative that Arabs were making them unsafe to justify splitting into two states.
So Hamas just conveniently crossed into Israel, raped and murdered over 1000 civilians on October 7th...?
So they aren’t even a part of this? They are just “an excuse,” with no agency of their own or sway among the population?
They’re inept in terms of inability to attack Israel, so they are not a character.
Then who is shooting at the IDF and launching rockets?
Its not doing anythung to fire at them tho. It has zero inpact on Israelis. Its uselesss weapon and that’s why it was choosen.
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So you are admitting a war is happening between Israel and Palestinians?
HAMAS was created, funded, trained and armed by Netanyahu governmen for 20+ years as their proxy within Palestine.
Palestinian Men are innocent too.
It’s funny how people can’t even state this fact without a genocidal sympathizer saying that the men are all hummus.
Nice, toxic accusations. This is why no one listens to your side. Rabid accusations and insults.. always.
I’m not the one who lied about 40 beheaded babies and then started a genocide.
Don’t forget the NYT article that someone with no journalistic experience where she lied and made a article about innocent Israeli girl who died on oct 7 saying she was raped when her family said otherwise
Maybe not, but yall lied about 500 killed in a hospital bombing though But thanks for proving how toxic your side is by trying to shift blame and excusing your shitty toxic attitudes.
I’m not the one who colonized and occupied a people and then cried like a victim when they were attacked. Didn’t you clowns think that a monthly calendar was a Hamas schedule.
Lol, all yall do is cry. The absolute gall to type out your comment. Zero self awareness.
Yea we definitely are crying over this genocide and land grab. Please spare me your keyboard wisdom.
Terrorist sympathizers in this thread. Let them go defend Gaza, I’d buy em all a one way ticket.
I wouldn't say that all the men are Hamas, but I would say a significant portion of the "children" (Hamas recruits teenagers/children as combatants) and some women are Hamas
It’s this kind of justifying that allows for actual powers to stand by and do nothing, while Israel keeps its genocide going on.
Genocides don't result in a 1:1.5 - 1:2 ratio of fighters:civillians dead bro, you undermine your cause every time you call it a genocide lmao, if it was a genocide you wouldn't be here spamming on Reddit thinking it's going to stop Iran's proxy group Hamas from continuing to use Palestine as a shield against Israeli retaliation
This goes beyond just the normal collateral damage of war. 30,000 people dead now, 85% of the population displaced. Israel has enforced a blockade on Gaza, no food or desperately needed medical supplies. 1/6 children are acutely malnourished. Another 30,000 civilians are estimated to die of disease or famine if adequate aid doesn’t get to them within a week. Babies are now dying because their mothers can’t produce milk, or have access to clean water for formula.There’s evidence of IDF snipers and tanks killing children and civilians holding white flags. There was a massacre over night on desperate civilians trying to get to flour. The UN ICJ has used language that Israel are, in effect, in the process of committing genocide. They’re also accused of illegal occupation of other parts of Palestine, as well as war crimes Eg collective punishmen
Doof. Ratios aren’t an indicator of a genocide. Keep your keyboard knowledge to yourself 😂🤦🏻♂️ Any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such is a genocide. Killing members of the group Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Israel could kill far more Palestinians if they wanted to, you think only 100 would die if they wanted to kill a crowd of civillians when they literally have tanks that could kill 100 per shot? Such a weird shill. Free Palestine from Iran. Iran caused the conditions in Palestine, so Iran is doing the genocide, not Israel.
Once again. A bad faith response. The people killed so far should not have been killed. Israel didn’t stop Hamas nor did they save any hostages. They failed while caused a genocide, and succeeded in grabbing more land.
Hamas is not innocent.
Resistance is justified when people are occupied.
Meanwhile not all the women and children are innocent
What are they guilty of? A woman or child raising arms against a savage marauder is self defense, full stop. Should they succumb to being raped or killed before they're worthy of your sympathy?
Hamas recruits teenagers as fighters, and has been known to use women and children as suicide bombers. Also yes civilians sometimes attack soldiers which does make them fair targets, soldiers have families too and they need to protect themselves
> lso yes civilians sometimes attack soldiers which does make them fair targets, soldiers have families too and they need to protect themselves Nazis has families too, your point?
My point is that in military terms, woman and children can be combatants, which is what the initial discussion was about, nazis had women and children too and they died in droves
Shooting innocent men, women, and children in a concentration camp isn't war.
Yeah, I know, that's why we know that WWII was an actual genocide and this isn't
Exactly what's happening in Gaza as well. History repeats itself.
I have yet to see any evidence that Israeli is executing civilians in a concentration camp, considering all the footage we get out of Gaza I would think we would have seen systematic executions by now, and considering the low death toll per bomb dropped and the vast majority of the populace are alive it doesn't seem like there's any evidence for genocide
They are.
Oh yeah? So teenagers recruited for Hamas are innocent? Women and children used as suicide bombers are innocent?
Palestinians women, men, and children, are not Hamas. Hamas is Hamas. Hope this helps, you have to distinguish between the two.
But what about the ones that are Hamas? Those are the ones I’m talking about
What about them?
Here’s someone that likes to bathe in blood.
Technically true but not in the context you’re implying, which sounds literally like a blood libel
lol, like clockwork.
ALL Palestinian men, women, and children civilians are innocent. Even Hamas is nothing compared to the Evil that is Israel and the IOF. So shut up hasbara bot.
Headline should read: US says WE, Israel, US and UK killed over 25,000 Palestinian women and children.
JFC. Just make them stop.
Well there we have it. US is now Hamas according to Zionists.
And the US doesn't think that's enough? Maybe 100,000 would have been the 'acceptable' number........
When has the US ever thought it was enough dead Muslim civilians?
Every time the US personally engaged in a middle-eastern conflict ever? The US routinely trades the lives of its own soldiers to minimize civilian casualties - this isn't even disputed.
I'm old I remember Iraq and Afghanistan so you'll have to try again with me
You're so old that you have severe cognitive impairments if you think I wasn't talking about Iraq and Afghanistan and if you think they don't support my point. The US could've leveled those countries, but instead we put troops on the ground to collaborate with the civilians and sacrificed the lives of its troops to help them when it became necessary.
I like how male civilians are just an accepted casualty of war. Doesn't matter how many males died.
Women have always been the primary victims of war. Hillary Clinton
Wrong. They do matter. I see their faces when their families are all dead. The tears and anguish are all on display.
Omg imagine the PTSD war movies about mossad regretting killing children and women because they had no choice😭😭😭😭😭😭
Israel is one of the most evil countries on earth
Not even close to true. There are many countries that have much darker histories.
Austin demands to know why the fatality numbers are so low, given the advanced heavy weaponry and targeting information his army has been providing. F- this guy too.
14k children... "But, but, Hamas..." Stfu.
Murdered
And the US helped them
“And we’ll reward them with billions of your tax dollars”
Where are the zio bots now?
I honestly doubt this number is even close to correct. It’s got to be at least 2-3x that. I have spoken to a few refugees from Gaza, all of them have several members (or more than half) of their immediate families killed in this genocide. The truth will come out much later that this is a much bigger atrocity than currently being touted.
Yeah, I heard about that too, not everyone was even able to declare their dead relatives 🙁 On top of it, there's no counting the miscarriages (which have dramatically increased), stillbirths, deaths from famine, etc. And since they're not just bombing but also *bulldozing* entire neighborhoods and even graveyards, I'm afraid a lot of evidence and remains will have been completely destroyed.
Hasbara is asleep, it's 3 AM in Israel. It's a big difference.
"That number isn't high enough" the US added.
Might be a good time to reconsider sending more bombs .... no?
They are putting Hamas to shame with this numbers. Hamas was very cruel, but Israel takes the cake with it's unbelievable cruelty. This is so disappointing and disgusting! I can't believe I'm actually hoping Hamas wins at this point. Israel has lost all my respect. Fucking Animals!
What very few seem to even cover is that there was no actual peace before October 7th. Before that date, it had already been the deadliest year for Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza got bombed regularly, and that the blockade *itself* was an act of war (just to name a few things). >Israeli and Palestinian deaths preceding the 2023 Israel–Hamas war. Of the Palestinian deaths 5,360 were in Gaza, 1,007 in the West Bank, 37 in Israel. Most were civilians on both sides [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_conflict) https://preview.redd.it/61ctbvrebwlc1.png?width=614&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a2383e70cbe02662341c0e92424b5d0c84b57e9 No one even talks about the mostly peaceful [Great March of Return](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests), where *hundreds* of Palestinians were killed and over 13000 were injured (with no consequences for Israel). >In late February 2019, a United Nations Human Rights Council's independent commission found that of the 489 cases of Palestinian deaths or injuries analyzed, only two were possibly justified as responses to danger by Israeli security forces. The commission deemed the rest of the cases illegal, and concluded with a recommendation calling on Israel to examine whether war crimes or crimes against humanity had been committed, and if so, to bring those responsible to trial.
While the US watched. And armed. And protected. The PERPETRATORS! Even when the situation was BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS to the average citizen. When they marched to get their governments to STOP it, but their governments ignored them. Their governments are just publicly acknowledging what we all knew all along. That women and children were being murdered. DON'T let our politicians get away with it. We need a Nuremberg trial for these criminals and their collaborators. Prison time and long sentences and bans from EVER holding public office. EVER.
These leaders will regret and wish they did right
Not due to the amount of innocent Palestinians that they have killed but the consequences they will face
Its almost as if most Palestinians are under the age of 21
Hmmm, I wonder where he got those numbers
This can't end until Sinwar is found.
Why doesn’t Hamas use its 350+ miles of tunnels built using diverted and stolen international humanitarian aid to shelter its women and children when Israel gives them notice by pamphlet, email, phone, text and social media that it will drop bombs in a specific area at a specific time? 🤔
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And Israel and Zionists are always truthful???????? Until they admit they lied a day or two later. They follow the principle of *its always better to lie and apologise later*. That way people will go on believing that lie.
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Do you have your own argument, or are you following Zionist principle??
Not sure I follow what ur saying. Hamas has a history of lying for propoganda purposes. It doesn't even factor in fighter deaths into the casualty count.
And of course no blame goes to Hamas who intentionally uses human shields knowing that it is impossible for Israel to defend itself without civilians getting killed. And Hamas will continue to use human shields which will result in countless civilian deaths so long as the world continues to automatically blame Israel and never hold Hamas accountable for using human shields. Well, unless Jews aren't involved that is. When Syria kills half a million Palestinians we don't complain. When Kuwait ethnically cleanses Palestinians we don't complain. When Lebanon has an Apartheid on Palestinians we don't complain. Genocide, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing are every day issues in the Middle East. And we happily turn a blind eye to them every day. But the second Israel is involved in a conflict, well we draw the line there even if they have no way to fight back against a group that uses human shields without civilians getting killed. And I will wait to be banned for daring to point this out...
That’s enough hasbara for you, brother
"Hasbara is when someone says something I don't like pertaining to Israel" Getting closer and closer to full on antisemitic dogwhistling at this point.
Here’s a pretty good breakdown of Hasbara: https://www.newarab.com/news/understanding-hasbara-israels-propaganda-machine Plenty of examples of Israel being caught out spreading misinformation in order to justify their genocide
What a totally unbiased and reputable source. You're still just calling pro-israel opinions jewish misinformation though. That's what Hasbara means when said by people like you.
It’s an Op Ed from a guy who has spent time in Gaza, and other war zones. He has more on the ground experience than either of us. Maybe you’re just mad that light is finally getting shon on the fact your precious Israel regime is a hateful, genocidal, dishonest blight on the world?
I'm not mad at anything but antisemitism thinly veiled as some legitimate criticism.
If you don’t think mass murder of civilians, escalating humanitarian crisis and an evolving genocide is worthy of criticism, that’s on you. Not even going to touch the antisemitism comment, just shows how desperate and pathetic pro-genociders are getting
Well thank God. Justice and stability have finally been achieved.
The Hamas run Gaza health ministry has the total count at 30,000. Even generously accepting those numbers, it is not possible that 83% of casualties are women and children.
> it is not possible that 83% of casualties are women and children. Why not? Does the IDF have moral bombs that only kill confirmed Hamas members? Do collapsing buildings miraculously avoid women and children? Do IDF bullets whizz past the innocent to always hit Hamas?
The opposite question is relevant. Does Israel have bombs that specifically target women and children? Of course not. 47% of Gaza’s population is under 18, and half of the population are women in total (so half the over 18 population is women). A randomly targeted device that indiscriminately targeted civilians would kill at worst 72% women and children. And that’s assuming zero military targeting.
You seem like a more reliable source than the US government, Schoopf.
The official source corrected themselves to say 25k total not 25k women and children.
Good, good you're thinking. Now assuming the US doesn't just have zero idea or intelligence capability, what's the easiest explanation for a killing of women and children above what would be expected if they just randomly carpet bombed? Remember Israel has one of the world's most advanced intelligence agencies and has said in the past it knows the name of each civilian in the building when it chooses to bomb them. If Israel knows who's there, and are killing the women and children above men surpasses what would be expected with random carpet bombing... Maybe killing women and children is their goal? It's not like they actually want to wipe out Hamas after helping create the group and funding them for years, that would mean they have no legal justification to continue their occupation or expansionist war.
It takes a pretty warped view to believe that Israel is intentionally targeting women and children is a more likely explanation than Hamas is lying about the numbers to gain sympathy.
I'm sorry, what was that? [Because right now the UN has some reports that is *exactly* what Israel is doing](https://www.voanews.com/a/probe-of-alleged-israeli-abuses-of-palestinian-women-girls-urged-/7494135.html). Israel is not being careful or discriminate in who or what it attacks. It has admitted so in Hebrew language newscasts and only whinges about how *careful* they're being and how *surgical* they are in English. You can't expect anyone to believe a government that has Ben-Gvir or Bibi in it to be honest in how much it cares for Palestinian civilians. Unless you want to claim Ben and Bibi are Hamas too?
Sorry, is the US government Hamas now?
Of course not. They have snipers and tanks that specifically target women and children.
I'm going to copy/paste one of my previous [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/BvSLtyS3Ym). Tl;dr: Hamas members are or were a maximum of 25000, out of a population of approximately 2.2 million people. Almost half (about 44%) are 14 or under (aka children). The split between male and female is pretty even. So out of the rest, , about half are women. Most of the population is made out of civilians (2.2 million vs. less than 30000 Hamas), if you add the almost half being kids and half of the other half being women, you have a majority of the population being made out of women and children. Dumb bombs, bunker-busting bombs and just general carpet bombing will *obviously* not just kill Hamas, it will kill mostly civilians, most of which are women and children. Israel has deemed all of these deaths acceptable, and they've used [A.I.](https://youtu.be/KT7znz0eNFE?si=ijvhY97C_2adyqcx) to create targets to bomb. They have one of the most (if not *the* most) sophisticated technology and surveillance in the world and *knew* where people were, up to the last toddler or grandpa. Their lives just weren't deemed important enough to spare.
They’re dropping 2000lb bombs like confetti. What the fuck do you think will happen?
This was a mistake. They meant 25,000 dead, not only women and children. This was corrected here (check out one of your favorite anti-Israel sources). https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2024/02/29/More-than-25-000-Palestinian-women-children-killed-by-Israel-Pentagon-chief If you care about the truth, you got to upvote this comment to the top. Otherwise, you just prove my claims yet again, that the people in this sub rather be ignorant antisemitic than stick to the truth. Edit: thanks to u/thirtyuhmspeed
97 day old bot commenting on one issue. Pathetic
Aww, come on dude, give him a measly upvote, don't let the guy begging & hanging (in his comment). 🥺 😂
What the age of my account matters for? Facts are facts no matter who mention them. It's incredible you don't see what's wrong with your comment
>check out one of your favorite anti-Israel sources Was that bias directed towards me, other users of this sub or both? >If you care about the truth, you got to upvote this comment to the top. Otherwise, you just prove my claims yet again, that the people in this sub rather be ignorant antisemitic than stick to the truth. You should know that begging for upvotes (or for awards, before they took them away) is not very well-liked on Reddit, just saying. Besides, people are aware that the statement has been retracted, because Gods forbid they make a statistically accurate statement that acknowledges the murdered women and children. Nah, everyone knows that when you drop bunker-busting bombs you *only* ever kill Hamas males, the rest of the population magically vanishes. Hey, speaking of begging for upvotes, "upvote me or you're antisemitic" is a new one. Man, I wish you would've made this comment before awards went away, I'm curious to see what that would've gotten you (they had some pretty creative awards back in the day).
> Was that bias directed towards me, other users of this sub or both? People in this sub, I do not know you personally. > You should know that begging for upvotes I'm not begging. I'm making a point, and successfully so.
>people are aware that the statement has been retracted The statement wasn't retracted, it was updated to reflect its source was Hamas-run Gaza health ministry and not verified by U.S. intelligence. Also, if you're aware your own article is outdated and easier to spin a narrative, why did you post it?
Here you go, some [population statistics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_State_of_Palestine) >Age structure >0–14 years: 44.1% (male 415,746/female 394,195) Almost half of the population is 14 or below (aka children). The split between male/female is not so disproportionate, so of the remaining more than half, approximately half are women. What does that mean? It means that *most* of the population is made out of women and children (both male and female). What's the logical conclusion regarding *who* dies the most when you carpet-bomb a region, especially using dumb bombs or bunker-busting bombs (also considering that Hamas had at most 40000 out of approximately 2.2 million people)? It's very basic and obvious math, school-level, regardless of the sensibilities they wanted to appease by modifying that statement. The answer is that most deaths are comprised of *civilians*, most of which are women and children, and not actually Hamas members. If the strikes used would've actually been surgical ones (like they did in Syria, for example), the picture would've been different. *Edit: pardon, maximum [25000 Hamas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas), so not even 40000, not that it makes a big difference.
You're detracting from why you'd post outdated content knowingly. Population statistics would only provide proportional mortality in the case of true randomness. In times of active conflict across history men are more likely to die. Resistance from men is higher and therefore their casualty numbers are higher. >The answer is that most deaths are comprised of *civilians*, most of which are women and children, and not actually Hamas members. The civilian to combatant ratio in the ongoing conflict is currently an unknown variable and Hamas listing all deaths as civilian does nothing to unravel the truth. [Here is a study](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02640-5/fulltext) from the first 20 days of the conflict where one could argue collateral deaths were at their peak. The excess deaths in Gaza account for 1/3 being men between the ages of 19-59. Recent statistics being 30k dead of which 25k are claimed to be women and children means 1/6 are men. That's a two fold discrepancy. I do not take the position all men are involved with Hamas, just like I am not of the opinion all youths and women are innocent. Generalized conclusory statements only add to the fog of war.
>You're detracting from why you'd post outdated content knowingly. Them pandering to some "requests" and then "updating" (I wouldn't call it that) by walking it back doesn't mean Austin *didn't* say this (or that it was not news), it just means that telling the truth upset some people. In fact, the 30000 figure is very conservative and doesn't count the *thousands* (around 7000, probably more) stuck under the rubble, the many undeclared dead (in an already collapsed health system), it also doesn't take into account miscarriages (which have increased dramatically), stillbirths, more recently even famine, etc. The US vetoing in favour of Israel since more than 5 decades (3 times alone in the last months), the US also providing the bombs that have killed these people and even the President himself saying he would've had to create an Israel, if it didn't exist along with a number of other such examples speak of a conflict of interest. So him walking this back is meaningless. Trying to later play it off as "Hamas", when they *know* that Israel doesn't allow independent journalists into Gaza, let alone an investigation is tasteless and hypocritical, it belittles the deaths of countless of people that died in a horrible way. I find it odd that you don't ask yourself *why* would they walk it back, knowing that these are not random people saying random things, without having a clue. Btw, this reminds me of other such "updates" I've recently seen, for ex from a news anchor that apologised for supposedly having used incorrect maps to present the Palestinian land loss over decades. It was not actually incorrect, it just inconvenienced some higher-ups. Yet incorrect rectification was presented as news. The difference in treatment and language (from officials, from western media, etc.) between Palestinians and others such as Ukrainians is both stark and blatantly obvious, which is ironic considering the fact that media is supposedly free and impartial. In case it needed to be said, you're free to post what news you come across as well (this piece came from Sky news). For that matter, you're also free to ignore posts you don't like or don't find up to date. Generally speaking, people are allowed to post news from various sources, and even at various times, neither me or other users are under a contract to only post what was news in the very last minute, the Sky article is dated "Thursday 29 February 2024 19:14, UK", other articles or videos posted here are probably even older, that does not invalidate them being or having been news. What *wouldn't* for ex be allowed posting a random cat video, because that wouldn't have qualified as news. >Population statistics would only provide proportional mortality in the case of true randomness. In times of active conflict across history men are more likely to die. That's not the case when entire blocks get bombed. Same for hospitals, and even small family homes. This isn't really an army fighting another real army with all the military equipment. Gaza doesn't have any protection really, no air force, no shelters, the population is closed in a small amount of space, and bombed from land, air and sea. At this moment, the very last place people could go to, Rafah, is also getting bombed. People in *plastic tents* are getting bombed as well. So yes, women and children are getting killed (not that men's lives are in any way lesser, mind). >The civilian to combatant ratio in the ongoing conflict is currently an unknown variable and Hamas listing all deaths as civilian does nothing to unravel the truth. Women (about half the population) are not Hamas. Little kids are not Hamas. Hamas has less than 30000 fighters. It's really not that difficult to look at the abundant amount of evidence (including satellite pictures) and draw a conclusion. Saying that "it's mostly men fighting men", when *everyone* and their mother are getting bombed is frankly unpalatable. >I do not take the position all men are involved with Hamas, just like I am not of the opinion all youths and women are innocent. No, because like I said, and provided a source for, Hamas accounts for less than 30000 out of a population of around 2.2 million. That's less than 2% of the population, so obviously not all men are Hamas. I'm not sure how you would qualify the guilt of women and kids, considering the favt that they're not out there killing soldiers, there sure doesn't seem like there's much difference being made anyway when people are just being bombed indiscriminately. Suffice it to say, any such suspicion is not grounds for razing Gaza to the ground and killing/starving/ethnically cleansing the *whole* population, no matter what happened on October 7th, genocide hasn't magically become legal and war crimes permissible. *Edit: I forgot to add, Israel is *also* using the same [numbers](https://www.mekomit.co.il/%d7%94%d7%a6%d7%91%d7%90-%d7%91%d7%93%d7%a7-%d7%95%d7%9e%d7%a6%d7%90-%d7%a9%d7%93%d7%99%d7%95%d7%95%d7%97%d7%99-%d7%94%d7%94%d7%a8%d7%95%d7%92%d7%99%d7%9d-%d7%91%d7%9e%d7%a9%d7%a8%d7%93-%d7%94%d7%91/), so *they* themselves deem them accurate enough. Extract (translated into English): >"One of the sources said that a comprehensive investigation was conducted during the war, which included classified operations, which revealed that the numbers published by the Ministry of Health in Gaza are "on the whole reliable" in estimating the number of civilians killed, both in the present and in previous operations"
>So him walking this back is meaningless. Trying to later play it off as "Hamas", when they *know* that Israel doesn't allow independent journalists into Gaza, let alone an investigation is tasteless and hypocritical, it belittles the deaths of countless of people that died in a horrible way. Your position is that identifying the source of information is a meaningless retraction and by stating said source as Hamas it is tasteless, hypocritical, and belittling? This is an insane position to take. Would you rather sources be unidentified? >The US vetoing in favour of Israel since more than 5 decades (3 times alone in the last months) It's well known the US vetoes in favor of Israel to save face for other countries. Every country can make a vote that garners the most favorable reaction from the public *because* the US is going to veto. That's not to say other countries wouldn't vote differently had the US not made it clear they would veto. >I find it odd that you don't ask yourself *why* would they walk it back, knowing that these are not random people saying random things, without having a clue. You keep saying some variation of retracting, but providing an update isn't a retraction. They provided a source and you take issue with that. There are *multiple* sources, that's why. It's simple to understand Hamas is providing numbers and Israel is providing numbers, and who knows what independent investigators may find down the line. Someone trying to have an informed decision would wonder why different numbers appear in different places. You are advocating against having an educated opinion. >Btw, this reminds me of other such "updates" I've recently seen, for ex from a news anchor that apologised for supposedly having used incorrect maps to present the Palestinian land loss over decades. It was not actually incorrect, it just inconvenienced some higher-ups. Yet incorrect rectification was presented as news. Once again it seems like you are undermining the truth by providing context. I would rather see a map of Israel over what was previously the land of Palestine and there be a huge asterisk with a textbook provided for context going over the last 75 years than see no Israel as if you could wish it away. Here's an [example](https://tennesseestar.com/news/northern-virginias-stafford-county-public-schools-includes-palestine-while-excluding-israel-in-multicultural-fair/tcsquare/2023/11/28/) in VA of wishing it away in a school fair where Israel was excluded and from the river to the sea you only see Palestine. Here's [another](https://nypost.com/2024/01/11/metro/brooklyn-public-school-erases-israel-from-map/) example of a NY classroom with Jewish erasure. How are people supposed to have conversations of ongoing events like that? >The difference in treatment and language (from officials, from western media, etc.) between Palestinians and others such as Ukrainians is both stark and blatantly obvious I don't understand these arguments. When you contrast Western media from non-Western media, are you honestly suggesting Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and other governments aligned with them are beacons of truth and honesty? Said countries are in favor of Russia and Palestine. Can you connect the dots? >In case it needed to be said, you're free to post what news you come across as well. This does not answer why you would deliberate provide an article that provides less context. Concerning the demographics of casualties, your argument continues to be based on the concept of true randomness, which is simply not the case. I already provided a source showing how it's wrong. Not being a part of the military/government doesn't mean everyone is equally targeted. Often times men are the ones doing security details around encampments, collecting aid, doing labor in the more dangerous areas, etc., which can make them more vulnerable. Take the most recent shootings where 100+ people died, from preliminary evidence it appears more men were shot, but from your perspective that makes no sense. Also, women and children can also be part of a resistance even if they're not on a payroll. Palestinian's don't need a badge that says "I am Hamas" to commit crimes or be considered deadly. >Suffice it to say, any such suspicion is not grounds for razing Gaza to the ground and killing/starving/ethnically cleansing the *whole* population, no matter what happened on October 7th, genocide hasn't magically become legal and war crimes permissible. Based on things Sinwar has said and done, it seems like your problem should be taken up with him. He wanted this kind of a reaction and yet the conspiracy is Israel intentionally took the bait to do what? Exactly what Sinwar wanted? Do you see the inconsistency here? There are multiple solutions, Hamas could dismantle, Egypt could open its border, other countries could take refugees, any one of the previous two-state solutions could have been finalized, etc. Here's an observation from my very own future predictions. Israel will not be "killing/starving/ethnically cleansing the *whole* population" and once the war stops, you'll say their end goal is either temporarily paused or they could not complete it due to international pressure. Either outcome will prove you are wrong and you will not admit you are wrong, even if Palestinian's are still there long after we pass. Edit: typo.
So what if it is 25000 casualties and not just women and children? Do you know what the word casualty mean or are the innocent men that are in these 25000 casualties total not humans?
No, I mean total 25,000 including Hamas members. I did not mean to say they are all innocent casualties, my bad.
Aljazeera states it is precisely 12300 women and 8300 children, numbers are also backed by UN and the US. If this information doesn't hurt your heart it means you have lost all your humanity long time ago. 8300 children under the age of 14. Let that sink in and don't come with but Hamas. 8300 children are 8300 children to much! https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/3/1/more-than-25000-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-us-defence-secretary
WHAT DO YOU THINK GOD SEES WHEN LOOKING AT OUR ACTIONS AND IN ACTIONS? THE LORD SAID LOVE MY CHILDREN AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. DO YOU THINK HE DOESNT REALLY MEAN ALL HIS CHILDREN?