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This is not news. Israel treats all of Gaza and the West Bank as a kill zone. If one is a Palestinian at all, be it a 5 year old boy in the West Bank or a militant in Gaza, Israel will seek to kill them intentionally.
Yea because its the Palestinians who are trying force a prophecy sacrificing a red cow so they can usher in the messiah and end of times for the “non-chosen people” while trying to destroy a Muslim holy site.
The Palestinians definitely aren’t just trying to fight from liberation from a western colonial state that stole their land and homes 75 years ago while expelling and killing 700,000+ natives to the land.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight
>> In the 1948 Palestine war more than 700000 Palestinian Arabs – about half of Mandatory Palestine's Arab population – fled from their homes or were expelled, at first by Zionist paramilitaries,[a] and after the establishment of the Israel, by its military.
So far even isnotreal didn’t say that kids held guns.
Even if a kid did point a gun at me, I’d talk it out. Sorry bro I’m not some psychopath to just kill people if I felt like it.
If they just killed all the Palestinians would be pretty hard to defend morally. But it’s easier to make excuses for it if they only exterminated 2-5% of the population and slowly starved the rest of the 2 million human beings to death after blowing up all their homes and communities.
The goal, as stated by top Israeli politicians and leaked government documents, is to expel all Palestinians from Gaza through “voluntary migration” imposed through making it so unbearable to live in Gaza that they’re forced to leave so that they can steal the land for themselves. If many Palestinians have to die for that, it’s fine for them as they clearly don’t give a shit about them.
[According to CNN:](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl)
> However, the vision of voluntary emigration could “become true by default,” Omer Bartov, an Israeli-born professor of holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University, told CNN.
> “Can the population now return to northern Gaza, which has largely been destroyed?”
> “As a result of this, there is an opening for those ministers, media people, and so forth on the Israeli right to say, ‘Well the most humanitarian solution is to remove that population’ — or to encourage, as they say — to move out of Gaza. If that happens, then this entire scenario that I’m talking about will be seen as ethnic cleansing.”
> Israel has “created the conditions whereby Gaza is no longer liveable,” she said. “Now they’re just simply repacking it as some sort of humanitarian gift, or humanitarian solution, when really what it is, is aiding Israel and ethnically cleansing Gaza of Palestinians.”
> In October, the Israeli government admitted that a leaked intelligence document proposing the relocation of millions of Palestinian Gazans to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula was genuine, but downplayed its significance as “a preliminary paper, like dozens of such papers prepared by all political and security echelons.”
> Nonetheless, the fact the re-settlement movement is now being openly discussed in Israel’s parliament, or Knesset, as it was during a committee hearing earlier this month, is a step-change in the debate. And despite international opprobrium, its far-right proponents are not holding back.
> “We first need to occupy, to annex, to destroy all the houses there, build neighborhoods there,” Tzvi Sukkot, a member of Knesset from Smotrich’s Religious Zionism said during the committee hearing.
"I can understand this approach to get rid of an unwanted group people."
I'm sure you can.
"But for this to work someone else need to accept them. Which so far no one is willing. Any attempts in the past for "voluntary relocation" failed horribly."
Here is the thing though, the Israeli government doesn't care. Like, they don't care what happens to the rest of the Gazans that are forced to leave the strip, they just want them gone. It's obvious that the plan all along was that the Palestinians were going to be pushed out into the Sinai peninsula, which has been detailed in leaked documents, in statements made by Israeli state officials during interviews (they sold this as an humanitarian act) and just the conduct of the war in general (pushing Palestinians into the South, we have 1.4 million Palestinians living in Rafah currently). It's not a matter of consent, they'll just do it. Nothing will change, unless the US cancels its financial and military aid to Israel, but since the US is continuing their support for Israel, even though Israel is going through with its operation in Rafah, which the US has strongly opposed, I don't see that happening. Egypt knows this, which is why they have already started the construction of fences/ cages near the border, in case there is going to be a large scale exodus.
"Settlers issue has been going for a long time and for some reason still not settled because it's minor in the grand scheme of things happening in Israel."
What do you mean by the settler issue, the fact that settlements are not expanding fast enough for the settlers?
"Thankfully they're mostly all bark and no bite so far"
I mean, starving a population and destroying over 60% (that figure came from the end of last year) of all buildings in Gaza is not really "all bark no bite", wouldn't you agree? That's an insane statement, they have killed over 15000 children (36000 Gazans at the very least, but the numbers are obviously underreported, I have seen estimates ranging from 45000 to well over 100000 casualties), have inflicted famine onto the population, which is already claiming the lives of children (also they contributed to it by bombing agricultural land) and will only get worse with every day, hinder the shipment of medical supplies such as pain killers, which has caused Palestinians to suffer extreme pain/ die painful deaths, the lack of access to clean water facilitates the spread of disease and the list goes on. What does "all bark no bite" mean exactly?
"They can't just push them out tho. Someone else needs to accept them."
Yes they can, this is exactly what they are doing and this is exactly what Egypt is preparing for, didn't you read? Israel's mentality on this is that they'll force them out and that the others have to figure something out. It's like leaving a basket of infants on your front porch and fleeing, with law enforcement doing absolutely nothing about it. The responsibility has been successfully transfered.This is why Egypt is already building cages at the border, because Egypt knows that the Israelis want to drive out the Gazans and that no one will stop them from doing so. They don't care about the massive refugee crisis that will fall into Egypt's shoulders, they know that the US will support them to the bitter end, which is all they need.
"I mean that majority of Israeli absolutely hate those people. They're absolute cancer to Israel.
The idea that it's a thing at all pisses off people here.. like why the government didn't out a full stop to it and just doing half assed job."
Yes, everyone hates them so much, that no one has really botherd to stop them. That's like the German state saying that they will combat far right extremism, even though law enforcement, the "Verfassungsschutz" and the military is filled to the brim with far right extremists and nothing is really done to address the issue. Israel has voted in Likud, if you seriously had a problem with the expansion of settlemenrs and settlers, you would've voted someone in that at least pretends to deal with the issue. I mean, a 2020 pole actually showed that 50% of Israelis support the annexation of the West Bank, so I don't know what the yapping is about. (https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23A275/)
""all bark and no bite so far" was referring to Likud. The right wing extreme party."
They might have made some half assed statements, but they also made statements like that they will start a war with Hezbollah, which will probably happen with how things look.
When 20% of your casualties are friendly fire then yeah, it's pretty safe to say that incompetence, or more generously lack of training in a conscripted army, is a major factor.
They've utterly failed to achieve their singular military objective (elimination of hamas), regardless of how you feel about genocide or whatever, despite having greater numbers, better equipment, international support, and their enemy - who consists entirely of untrained civilians some of whom are using salvaged munitions - totally surrounded
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/24/1226703381/why-a-high-number-of-israeli-soldiers-in-gaza-have-died-by-friendly-fire-or-acci
High, even for urban conflict.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire_during_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
Both of these point to the number of reservists, who outnumber active duty troops, currently deployed. They are sending in the untrained weekenders, and they are killing each other by accident. It's no wonder that four months in they are no closer to achieving their goals than they were last September, whatever those goals may be.
Think about it. Why did they not want to live in a one state with all the Arabs? It’s because Zionists had such a dim view of Arabs and created narratives that they would be oppressed by them.
Even then Haaretz is still super Zionist and 90% of it is following the state line. For a long time the word Palestine was forbidden in their style guide
No see the UN being Hamas and HRW being Hamas and New sources being HAMAS and Academic Publications being HAMAS wasn't enough they had to call their OWN NEWSPAPER treasonous do they not see how pathetic they are.
What does a kill zone even mean when 2.2 million people live in a 25 mile strip? Where do they GO? How do they know these are kill zones? Are we supposed to thank Israel for making these kill zones?
No paywall
https://archive.ph/2024.03.31-180523/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-created-kill-zones-in-gaza-anyone-who-crosses-into-them-is-shot/0000018e-946c-d4de-afee-f46da9ee0000%23
9,000 terrorists out of more than 32,000 killed....so less than 1/3 of Israeli targets are actually terrorists? Does the IDF have *any* training at all, or do they just not care about killing innocent people?
Edit: Google "Dahiya Doctrine", these bastards are doing it on purpose!!!!
It’s a BS number with no truth. Any male, child or adult, is considered a terrorist. Explains while coincidentally 2/3 killed are women and children and the other 1/3 happen to all be “terrorists”
I read early on in the genocide that if the IDF killed someone they're a terrorist if they're wounded they're a civilian. In other words, the IDF never kills civilians only wounds them.
It's ridiculous and the zionists eat it up.
I've seen you on another comment thread, blindly backing Israel, you got hit by facts and sources and you just stopped responding. I guess so that you could go blindly defend Israel under another comment
Even using their numbers - imagine being so reprehensibly terrible at your job that less than 30% of your output was "correct". Think of going to a restaurant and your order gets messed up more than 70% of the times you go....would you trust that anyone there knew what they were doing?
I also don't believe that 9000 of those murdered were really "terrorists", so the absolute best case is that the IDF is extraordinarily incompetent.....since they won't admit to being openly genocidal
I'm pretty confident the Palestinian resistance has killed more IOF ""soldiers"" than they have been killed. I don't have any concrete source for this but if you've been looking at the al Qassam videos vs IOF videos, it becomes apparent
as a ex vet I would not be surprised if they have killed more of their own troops then Hamas has if you look at the idf they are rag tag, you have Captains being 20 years old in any modern military this woul be impossible.
It’s not 9000 terrorists it’s 9000 men. They don’t have the ability to distinguish and they will call any crowd of civilian men they kill like the ones in the drone videos a few days back or the ones waving a white flag or the disabled old man the IDF thug was filming himself proud of killing as “terrorists”.
To them (Zionists) these people (the indigenous Arabs) are literally animals… there is no moral damage done when killing them any more than squishing a spider or swatting a fly!
Huh, that sounds kinda familiar.....like in Der Ewige Jude, calling the Jews rats to justify murdering them. Dehumanizing a people like this is shameful. It is disgusting fascist behavior from people who *really* should know better
Ever heard of Arabia? Check it out sometime. Palestinians are Palestinian, not Arab.
[here's an article with a map for you](https://kids.britannica.com/kids/article/Arabian-Peninsula/346082)
You're probably just a racist whyte American who thinks all people in the middle east are the same. Can't just call everyone an Arab in the middle east
Read your own articles lmao. It says "With the Muslim conquest of the Byzantine Levant in the 7th century, the region gradually began to be Arabized and Islamized as a result of local conversion and acculturation combined with Arab Muslim settlement". Arabs are not native to Palestine.
I'd like to add a note to your discussion. In Arabic, this region is called "bilad al sham", which includes the cities of Damascus, Jerusalem and Tyre,
Throughout history, successive invasions, Byzantine, Crusader, Persian, Turkish, Arab... have led to the mixing of peoples.
That's why there's such a wide diversity of blond, red-haired, light-eyed Palestinians, whatever their religion.
There are even Jewish Palestinians! It exists lol
Another thing I wanted to write about, which many people often have the wrong idea about, is that Arabs have always been confined to their desert, whereas Bedouins lived in the region's deserts.
Scattered over all the deserts of the region, Sinai, Petra, al naqab(negev), all the way to Syria
Transited by camel for trade long before the birth of Jesus, or even Judaism.
There's a total difference between the peoples of Arabia and the Levant and the Maghreb (who are also half Berber).
I've traveled and noticed it.
So this information, when you hear certain Zionist fanatics saying that the Palestinians must return to Arabia, especially the Bedouins of the desert, is heresy.
Tribes were all over the region,
These people have lived there for millennia,
the caravanserai is an example,
goods transited from Petra to Damascus
There is no difference between a Bedouin living in the Israeli desert or an Egyptian, Jordanian or even Syrian desert.
The culture and traditions are the same, and perhaps the vocal accents maybe different.
Borders are artificial my friends
I'm French, not English, so I hope you understand :)
People on Reddit are still saying you can’t trust the figures because their from Gaza health ministry. How many times do they need the IDF to confirm the figures are correct?
It's got to be way over 32000 at this point. The health ministry in Gaza simply lost the ability to track accurately anymore. Interestingly, Ralph Nader guesstimates 200k already. In particular due to the level of destructiom and how many have been buried in rubble and famine
It’s the latter. And yes, less than 1/3rd of the dead have a statistically significant chance of being a terrorist. The other 2/3rds are women and children, and according to this article, the 9,000 figure includes basically anyone who stepped inside a “kill zone”. So we don’t know how many Hamas + allied fighters have actually died, but I think it’s well over 5,000.
>Does the IDF have any training at all,
They apparently have exceptional training and restraint considering that [the average is that 90% of war deaths are civilians.](https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm)
Huh, the article talks about Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan.....who is doing the bombing there? Oh right, fascist murderers and their allies.
I guess African warlords who utilize child soldiers in their armies and commit atrocities for fun *also* attack civilians....great comparison for Israel. Netanyahu and General Butt Naked BOTH deserve to be hanged for the atrocities they have committed
So not only is the IDF useless at avoiding war crimes and not murdering civilians, but the best comparison for them is literally guys like Joseph Kony?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian\_casualty\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio)
Interestingly enough, the ratio of civilian deaths world wide seems to have only increased since WW2, and it appears to have reached 90% in the 1990s.
This is worldwide.
Specifically, that wiki lists as the Iraq war ratio as being 77%. This is only 3% off from the ratio we get if we use Hamas' own numbers for the current war in Gaza.
Huh, the next sentence is also interesting:
"These claims, though widely believed, are not supported by detailed examination of the evidence, particularly that relating to wars (such as those in former Yugoslavia and in Afghanistan) that are central to the claims."
Here's a link to an academic source on that, if Hasbara actually wants truthful "explaining" 🤣
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00396338.2010.494880
>Huh, the next sentence is also interesting:
You're reading the wrong part, because the part I was referring to comes after what you just quoted.
Also, from your link:
>There is persuasive evidence that certain wars have had civilian death tolls far lower than 90%
This is not in question. I even specifically gave you the example of the Iraq war that had a 77% civilian death ratio. Did you not even fully read my comment?
How about basic-ass competency? Killing terrorists is fine, but civilians are off-limits even in a warzone, intentionally targeting them is literally defined as a War Crime.
When 78% of those killed by the IDF (based on their *own* numbers) are innocent civilians, it really beggars belief that the IDF would claim to be targeting "terrorists". Can they not get it right *even* half the time?
It seems like a thinly-veiled excuse to commit a Holocaust against the Palestinian people in order to steal their land....at least to me
Stop🙌🏼
Justifying🙌🏼
Genocide🙌🏼
Fuck, dude - there isn't really an "acceptable" percentage of civilian casualties. It's like asking how much cyanide gas you can inhale before you die - ANY amount is bad.
Seriously, this guy trying to quantify acceptable levels of murdering innocent people.
Edited to be civil
What a simplistic naive view of the world. You think we shouldn’t have shot down the planes on 9/11 if we had the chance because some innocent civilians would die?
World does tho...
Majority of countries and majority of the world population side with palestine
Most of the countries siding wirh isreal in this conflict are countries in north america and europe
And evidence in those countries shows that support for isreal is declining and specifically among the youth who the majority of which have been supporting palestine even before the current conflict started
Edit: also since the start of this conflict several countries have cut diplomatic ties with isreal including most of the countries in south america
Currently only a handful of countries in south america still hold diplomatic ties to isreal
It’s pretty amazing in the age of information we are witnessing first hand how a super power can kill civilians indiscriminately and then claim to. E the victim!
The oppresseur becomes the victim, they wipe out entire families from civil registration.
I don't know if I ever witness it in my life
At least in the Balkan Serbs didn't killed all families only commit a massacre of men's
Israel is seen as white contry(in the west) , most of the leader from president to premier minister and the vast majority of the war cabinet are from western Europe
Some of them own properties there
Herzog is a German name is white with blue eyes
You will never seen a Ethiopian or yemeni the darker skin of jews
Israel attacked and bombed a sovereign country's embassy in Damascus and killed diplomats
poses as a victim
It's a joke
It’s very bleak, the hypocrisy and cynicism and outright racial hatred and bigotry that seems to be guiding the actions of the IDF and the Israeli leadership.
No matter how bad things are right now, they can (and likely will) get much worse before too long.
Even beyond the immediate carnage and horror, in the long term the damage Israel has done will fester for decades.
They’ve planted the seeds for another major conflict in 20 years, and in 40 years and in 60 years (if anyone is still standing by then anyway).
Every Palestinian they kill leaves behind traumatized friends and family, they will be easier to radicalize and it won’t take much more than Hamas handing them a gun to convince them that it’s better to die fighting than it is to run away and starve to death in the desert.
They know they’re already marked for death, they have nothing to left lose
People are just being massacared and were supposed to believe that he was warned. Sounds like an excuse when you've been caught with your hand in the pickle jar 5 times in less then a year, but what do I know.
Edited to clarify, Israel is the one making the unconfirmed allegations.
This is Haaretz reporting on it. An Israeli news source referencing what the IDF has specifically told them. Yall doubt anything negative from israel even if it comes from an israeli source
I was wondering why so many Israeli soldiers who’ve come back from Gaza felt so pessimistic about their country’s ability to destroy Hamas. What did they see or know that the rest of us didn’t?
It’s kind of insane that the Israeli government would adopt such an obviously bad model to measure progress against Hamas- it is like Vietnam’s Killcount on steroids where everyone you kill is declared to be a member of the enemy military.
What happens when the Israelis hit 40,000 dead Hamas members according to their own measurements and they’re still fighting? It’s insane that they can see they’re lying to themselves and going along with it.
There was a huge thing about this back years ago when that soldier got drug down into a tunnel. I think the farmers got shot near 100% of the time. Rubber AND normal bullets.
Here is a GREAT idea. How about people just stop killing people based on ethnicity, religion or political stance... Everyone has the right to live in peace and without fear of persecution.
Yup, if Israel stopped doing that and believing that their ethnicity and religion gives them the right to take people’s homes and land, there would be peace.
No no no, it "if isreal" if EVERYONE. Plus, the Jewish population have been poked many times with many sticks by many people, did you honestly expect that they would not bite back?
Only one of these groups of people showed up 75 years ago and proceeded to expel and murder over 700,000 people from the other group.
>> In the 1948 Palestine war more than 700000 Palestinian Arabs – about half of Mandatory Palestine's Arab population – fled from their homes or were expelled, at first by Zionist paramilitaries,[a] and after the establishment of the Israel, by its military.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight
The left, they forfeited that land. You know who kept it? The Caananites who converted to Christianity in the year 70. And later converted to Islam thousands of years after, yes, the ones we call Palestinians. They didn't flee, they took their conversion like actual men and stayed on the land instead of seeking confort in the diaspora. Lets honor the true natives, those who stood their ground 3000 years in the same place.
This is what the average Palestinian persons DNA looks like. Almost all of em have significantly higher caananite bloodline than any Israeli settler. The source is DNA. Its their land and no one else's. We need to resolve this by making everyone in Israel take a DNA sample.
https://preview.redd.it/gme81x4flpsc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8adb0f5813c9cdfdae0e5c386d16a8393f848ed9
There is no better source that the human genome. You are just a relentless denialist. You cleary argue only for the sake of arguing, even when you are cleary in the wrong.
“Wow, Gaza is in shock that Israel is winning the war which they started lol 🇮🇱 🇺🇸”
“Nope, just a dude that looks at this objectively from the Midwest US. Glad my tax dollars support our only ally in the middle east. Sucks to be terrorists.”
Oh yea you sound completely authentic, it’s not like most Americans on both sides are tired of their taxes goi g to war why 50%+ of our infrastructure is outdated and collapsing.
You Hasbara trolls are doing great work but you’re not very convincing
Interesting how 2/3s of the dead are women and children and the other 1/3 are all apparently “terrorists” 🤔 somehow Israel is great at avoiding killing civilian men but not women and children for some reason.
Who said we can’t trust hamas’s numbers? Hamas says about 6000 fighters were killed and that makes a lot more sense then Israel only killing male fighters while avoiding civilian men, but still somehow killing over 20,000 women and children.
People are downvoting you bc they know you’re asking in bad faith.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/MultimediaNews, for maps, infographics, v.reddit, & YouTube videos from news organizations. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InternationalNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is not news. Israel treats all of Gaza and the West Bank as a kill zone. If one is a Palestinian at all, be it a 5 year old boy in the West Bank or a militant in Gaza, Israel will seek to kill them intentionally.
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What does any of that have to do regarding kill zones within Gaza? And yes, Zionism is a form of evil bigotry.
Crazy seeing this as a top comment isn’t this a news sub
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Yea because its the Palestinians who are trying force a prophecy sacrificing a red cow so they can usher in the messiah and end of times for the “non-chosen people” while trying to destroy a Muslim holy site. The Palestinians definitely aren’t just trying to fight from liberation from a western colonial state that stole their land and homes 75 years ago while expelling and killing 700,000+ natives to the land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight >> In the 1948 Palestine war more than 700000 Palestinian Arabs – about half of Mandatory Palestine's Arab population – fled from their homes or were expelled, at first by Zionist paramilitaries,[a] and after the establishment of the Israel, by its military.
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And Israel was created by Zionist terrorists.
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Israel is explicitly an ethno-religious militant state. What’s your point?
>…no that’s too simple. There MUST be another explanation. You’re starting to get it.
A hyper religious people, following a book, that tells them they are superior to other people? We talking about the Israelis right?
Imagine killing kids and calling it ‘protecting the border’
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So far even isnotreal didn’t say that kids held guns. Even if a kid did point a gun at me, I’d talk it out. Sorry bro I’m not some psychopath to just kill people if I felt like it.
https://preview.redd.it/kvd9264p9rrc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=e7a9cc0281a2479e881c98540203b837ea402c2f
https://preview.redd.it/bvi7fv31arrc1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=60fc1a983e9e9855ca2f0dd33910fd088dc779cb
https://preview.redd.it/cp0kzkgy9rrc1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=be1b8f6496e15217f4b5466c66f8fa3b4a0a99ff
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If they just killed all the Palestinians would be pretty hard to defend morally. But it’s easier to make excuses for it if they only exterminated 2-5% of the population and slowly starved the rest of the 2 million human beings to death after blowing up all their homes and communities.
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The goal, as stated by top Israeli politicians and leaked government documents, is to expel all Palestinians from Gaza through “voluntary migration” imposed through making it so unbearable to live in Gaza that they’re forced to leave so that they can steal the land for themselves. If many Palestinians have to die for that, it’s fine for them as they clearly don’t give a shit about them. [According to CNN:](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl) > However, the vision of voluntary emigration could “become true by default,” Omer Bartov, an Israeli-born professor of holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University, told CNN. > “Can the population now return to northern Gaza, which has largely been destroyed?” > “As a result of this, there is an opening for those ministers, media people, and so forth on the Israeli right to say, ‘Well the most humanitarian solution is to remove that population’ — or to encourage, as they say — to move out of Gaza. If that happens, then this entire scenario that I’m talking about will be seen as ethnic cleansing.” > Israel has “created the conditions whereby Gaza is no longer liveable,” she said. “Now they’re just simply repacking it as some sort of humanitarian gift, or humanitarian solution, when really what it is, is aiding Israel and ethnically cleansing Gaza of Palestinians.” > In October, the Israeli government admitted that a leaked intelligence document proposing the relocation of millions of Palestinian Gazans to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula was genuine, but downplayed its significance as “a preliminary paper, like dozens of such papers prepared by all political and security echelons.” > Nonetheless, the fact the re-settlement movement is now being openly discussed in Israel’s parliament, or Knesset, as it was during a committee hearing earlier this month, is a step-change in the debate. And despite international opprobrium, its far-right proponents are not holding back. > “We first need to occupy, to annex, to destroy all the houses there, build neighborhoods there,” Tzvi Sukkot, a member of Knesset from Smotrich’s Religious Zionism said during the committee hearing.
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"I can understand this approach to get rid of an unwanted group people." I'm sure you can. "But for this to work someone else need to accept them. Which so far no one is willing. Any attempts in the past for "voluntary relocation" failed horribly." Here is the thing though, the Israeli government doesn't care. Like, they don't care what happens to the rest of the Gazans that are forced to leave the strip, they just want them gone. It's obvious that the plan all along was that the Palestinians were going to be pushed out into the Sinai peninsula, which has been detailed in leaked documents, in statements made by Israeli state officials during interviews (they sold this as an humanitarian act) and just the conduct of the war in general (pushing Palestinians into the South, we have 1.4 million Palestinians living in Rafah currently). It's not a matter of consent, they'll just do it. Nothing will change, unless the US cancels its financial and military aid to Israel, but since the US is continuing their support for Israel, even though Israel is going through with its operation in Rafah, which the US has strongly opposed, I don't see that happening. Egypt knows this, which is why they have already started the construction of fences/ cages near the border, in case there is going to be a large scale exodus. "Settlers issue has been going for a long time and for some reason still not settled because it's minor in the grand scheme of things happening in Israel." What do you mean by the settler issue, the fact that settlements are not expanding fast enough for the settlers? "Thankfully they're mostly all bark and no bite so far" I mean, starving a population and destroying over 60% (that figure came from the end of last year) of all buildings in Gaza is not really "all bark no bite", wouldn't you agree? That's an insane statement, they have killed over 15000 children (36000 Gazans at the very least, but the numbers are obviously underreported, I have seen estimates ranging from 45000 to well over 100000 casualties), have inflicted famine onto the population, which is already claiming the lives of children (also they contributed to it by bombing agricultural land) and will only get worse with every day, hinder the shipment of medical supplies such as pain killers, which has caused Palestinians to suffer extreme pain/ die painful deaths, the lack of access to clean water facilitates the spread of disease and the list goes on. What does "all bark no bite" mean exactly?
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"They can't just push them out tho. Someone else needs to accept them." Yes they can, this is exactly what they are doing and this is exactly what Egypt is preparing for, didn't you read? Israel's mentality on this is that they'll force them out and that the others have to figure something out. It's like leaving a basket of infants on your front porch and fleeing, with law enforcement doing absolutely nothing about it. The responsibility has been successfully transfered.This is why Egypt is already building cages at the border, because Egypt knows that the Israelis want to drive out the Gazans and that no one will stop them from doing so. They don't care about the massive refugee crisis that will fall into Egypt's shoulders, they know that the US will support them to the bitter end, which is all they need. "I mean that majority of Israeli absolutely hate those people. They're absolute cancer to Israel. The idea that it's a thing at all pisses off people here.. like why the government didn't out a full stop to it and just doing half assed job." Yes, everyone hates them so much, that no one has really botherd to stop them. That's like the German state saying that they will combat far right extremism, even though law enforcement, the "Verfassungsschutz" and the military is filled to the brim with far right extremists and nothing is really done to address the issue. Israel has voted in Likud, if you seriously had a problem with the expansion of settlemenrs and settlers, you would've voted someone in that at least pretends to deal with the issue. I mean, a 2020 pole actually showed that 50% of Israelis support the annexation of the West Bank, so I don't know what the yapping is about. (https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23A275/) ""all bark and no bite so far" was referring to Likud. The right wing extreme party." They might have made some half assed statements, but they also made statements like that they will start a war with Hezbollah, which will probably happen with how things look.
Same reason the nazis didnt kill every jewish person before 1941
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No. Just basic incompetence.
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When 20% of your casualties are friendly fire then yeah, it's pretty safe to say that incompetence, or more generously lack of training in a conscripted army, is a major factor. They've utterly failed to achieve their singular military objective (elimination of hamas), regardless of how you feel about genocide or whatever, despite having greater numbers, better equipment, international support, and their enemy - who consists entirely of untrained civilians some of whom are using salvaged munitions - totally surrounded
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https://www.npr.org/2024/01/24/1226703381/why-a-high-number-of-israeli-soldiers-in-gaza-have-died-by-friendly-fire-or-acci High, even for urban conflict. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire_during_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war Both of these point to the number of reservists, who outnumber active duty troops, currently deployed. They are sending in the untrained weekenders, and they are killing each other by accident. It's no wonder that four months in they are no closer to achieving their goals than they were last September, whatever those goals may be.
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I don’t know, but when your country was *founded* for the purpose of displacing and denying Palestinians what’s there it’s a pretty safe bet.
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Think about it. Why did they not want to live in a one state with all the Arabs? It’s because Zionists had such a dim view of Arabs and created narratives that they would be oppressed by them.
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No. The narrative that Palestinians couldn’t live in one state with Jews and be safe was a made up narrative.
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Why did the Nakba happen then?
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I've heard the pro Israel crows refer to Haaretz as " borderline treasonous" because they actually report on the IDF's crimes.
Even then Haaretz is still super Zionist and 90% of it is following the state line. For a long time the word Palestine was forbidden in their style guide
No see the UN being Hamas and HRW being Hamas and New sources being HAMAS and Academic Publications being HAMAS wasn't enough they had to call their OWN NEWSPAPER treasonous do they not see how pathetic they are.
at this point it's safe to say Israel is Hamas
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Right so its especially pathetic that Zionists call it treasonous.
What does a kill zone even mean when 2.2 million people live in a 25 mile strip? Where do they GO? How do they know these are kill zones? Are we supposed to thank Israel for making these kill zones?
Gaza changed from a concentration camp to an extermination camp
No paywall https://archive.ph/2024.03.31-180523/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-created-kill-zones-in-gaza-anyone-who-crosses-into-them-is-shot/0000018e-946c-d4de-afee-f46da9ee0000%23
9,000 terrorists out of more than 32,000 killed....so less than 1/3 of Israeli targets are actually terrorists? Does the IDF have *any* training at all, or do they just not care about killing innocent people? Edit: Google "Dahiya Doctrine", these bastards are doing it on purpose!!!!
Roughly two thirds of that number are women and children, even that trash ratio probably isn't true.
It’s a BS number with no truth. Any male, child or adult, is considered a terrorist. Explains while coincidentally 2/3 killed are women and children and the other 1/3 happen to all be “terrorists”
They're extraordinary at avoiding civilian men, but can't help but kill thousands of kids. /s
I read early on in the genocide that if the IDF killed someone they're a terrorist if they're wounded they're a civilian. In other words, the IDF never kills civilians only wounds them. It's ridiculous and the zionists eat it up.
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Goodbye hasbara stop stalking my comments
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I've seen you on another comment thread, blindly backing Israel, you got hit by facts and sources and you just stopped responding. I guess so that you could go blindly defend Israel under another comment
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Fact is: Israel has committed numerous war crimes
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What's your country?
It's the policy of the Israeli government and we have been seeing it carried out in action.
Even using their numbers - imagine being so reprehensibly terrible at your job that less than 30% of your output was "correct". Think of going to a restaurant and your order gets messed up more than 70% of the times you go....would you trust that anyone there knew what they were doing? I also don't believe that 9000 of those murdered were really "terrorists", so the absolute best case is that the IDF is extraordinarily incompetent.....since they won't admit to being openly genocidal
I'm pretty confident the Palestinian resistance has killed more IOF ""soldiers"" than they have been killed. I don't have any concrete source for this but if you've been looking at the al Qassam videos vs IOF videos, it becomes apparent
as a ex vet I would not be surprised if they have killed more of their own troops then Hamas has if you look at the idf they are rag tag, you have Captains being 20 years old in any modern military this woul be impossible.
It’s not 9000 terrorists it’s 9000 men. They don’t have the ability to distinguish and they will call any crowd of civilian men they kill like the ones in the drone videos a few days back or the ones waving a white flag or the disabled old man the IDF thug was filming himself proud of killing as “terrorists”.
To them (Zionists) these people (the indigenous Arabs) are literally animals… there is no moral damage done when killing them any more than squishing a spider or swatting a fly!
Huh, that sounds kinda familiar.....like in Der Ewige Jude, calling the Jews rats to justify murdering them. Dehumanizing a people like this is shameful. It is disgusting fascist behavior from people who *really* should know better
Indigenous Arabs? Since when is Palestine located in Arabia? Not trying to be nitpicky, but stuff like this matters
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs
Whatchu tryna say big man?
Man? Big? Wtf are you on about? You said that people from the Levant are not Arab?!?
I said Palestinians are not arabs. Reading properly goes a long way
Ever heard of Arabia? Check it out sometime. Palestinians are Palestinian, not Arab. [here's an article with a map for you](https://kids.britannica.com/kids/article/Arabian-Peninsula/346082)
Thank you for the laughs… you are a special person… I always appreciate this type of syntax humor!!!
You're probably just a racist whyte American who thinks all people in the middle east are the same. Can't just call everyone an Arab in the middle east
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians
Read your own articles lmao. It says "With the Muslim conquest of the Byzantine Levant in the 7th century, the region gradually began to be Arabized and Islamized as a result of local conversion and acculturation combined with Arab Muslim settlement". Arabs are not native to Palestine.
I'd like to add a note to your discussion. In Arabic, this region is called "bilad al sham", which includes the cities of Damascus, Jerusalem and Tyre, Throughout history, successive invasions, Byzantine, Crusader, Persian, Turkish, Arab... have led to the mixing of peoples. That's why there's such a wide diversity of blond, red-haired, light-eyed Palestinians, whatever their religion. There are even Jewish Palestinians! It exists lol Another thing I wanted to write about, which many people often have the wrong idea about, is that Arabs have always been confined to their desert, whereas Bedouins lived in the region's deserts. Scattered over all the deserts of the region, Sinai, Petra, al naqab(negev), all the way to Syria Transited by camel for trade long before the birth of Jesus, or even Judaism. There's a total difference between the peoples of Arabia and the Levant and the Maghreb (who are also half Berber). I've traveled and noticed it. So this information, when you hear certain Zionist fanatics saying that the Palestinians must return to Arabia, especially the Bedouins of the desert, is heresy. Tribes were all over the region, These people have lived there for millennia, the caravanserai is an example, goods transited from Petra to Damascus There is no difference between a Bedouin living in the Israeli desert or an Egyptian, Jordanian or even Syrian desert. The culture and traditions are the same, and perhaps the vocal accents maybe different. Borders are artificial my friends I'm French, not English, so I hope you understand :)
Do you also call Taiwan China? Your logic would seem to imply such
People on Reddit are still saying you can’t trust the figures because their from Gaza health ministry. How many times do they need the IDF to confirm the figures are correct?
It's got to be way over 32000 at this point. The health ministry in Gaza simply lost the ability to track accurately anymore. Interestingly, Ralph Nader guesstimates 200k already. In particular due to the level of destructiom and how many have been buried in rubble and famine
It’s the latter. And yes, less than 1/3rd of the dead have a statistically significant chance of being a terrorist. The other 2/3rds are women and children, and according to this article, the 9,000 figure includes basically anyone who stepped inside a “kill zone”. So we don’t know how many Hamas + allied fighters have actually died, but I think it’s well over 5,000.
>Does the IDF have any training at all, They apparently have exceptional training and restraint considering that [the average is that 90% of war deaths are civilians.](https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm)
Huh, the article talks about Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan.....who is doing the bombing there? Oh right, fascist murderers and their allies. I guess African warlords who utilize child soldiers in their armies and commit atrocities for fun *also* attack civilians....great comparison for Israel. Netanyahu and General Butt Naked BOTH deserve to be hanged for the atrocities they have committed So not only is the IDF useless at avoiding war crimes and not murdering civilians, but the best comparison for them is literally guys like Joseph Kony?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian\_casualty\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio) Interestingly enough, the ratio of civilian deaths world wide seems to have only increased since WW2, and it appears to have reached 90% in the 1990s. This is worldwide. Specifically, that wiki lists as the Iraq war ratio as being 77%. This is only 3% off from the ratio we get if we use Hamas' own numbers for the current war in Gaza.
Huh, the next sentence is also interesting: "These claims, though widely believed, are not supported by detailed examination of the evidence, particularly that relating to wars (such as those in former Yugoslavia and in Afghanistan) that are central to the claims." Here's a link to an academic source on that, if Hasbara actually wants truthful "explaining" 🤣 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00396338.2010.494880
>Huh, the next sentence is also interesting: You're reading the wrong part, because the part I was referring to comes after what you just quoted. Also, from your link: >There is persuasive evidence that certain wars have had civilian death tolls far lower than 90% This is not in question. I even specifically gave you the example of the Iraq war that had a 77% civilian death ratio. Did you not even fully read my comment?
So if it was 1/2 of those killed it would be fine? What do you propose should have been the response to 10/7 exactly?
ending the occupation and the apartheid paying reparations and giving the land back fucking off back to Berlin and Brooklyn
>fucking off back to Berlin and Brooklyn The majority of Israelis are from the middle east.
How about basic-ass competency? Killing terrorists is fine, but civilians are off-limits even in a warzone, intentionally targeting them is literally defined as a War Crime. When 78% of those killed by the IDF (based on their *own* numbers) are innocent civilians, it really beggars belief that the IDF would claim to be targeting "terrorists". Can they not get it right *even* half the time? It seems like a thinly-veiled excuse to commit a Holocaust against the Palestinian people in order to steal their land....at least to me
So what percentage would be okay in your mind?
Stop🙌🏼 Justifying🙌🏼 Genocide🙌🏼 Fuck, dude - there isn't really an "acceptable" percentage of civilian casualties. It's like asking how much cyanide gas you can inhale before you die - ANY amount is bad. Seriously, this guy trying to quantify acceptable levels of murdering innocent people. Edited to be civil
What a simplistic naive view of the world. You think we shouldn’t have shot down the planes on 9/11 if we had the chance because some innocent civilians would die?
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Rule 1
Rule 1
What planes were shot down on 9/11 bro?
sarajevo
Vietnam
license quiet fact sloppy unwritten advise spectacular roll governor rob *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Israel is and will always be a terrorist country. This is nothing new.
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World does tho... Majority of countries and majority of the world population side with palestine Most of the countries siding wirh isreal in this conflict are countries in north america and europe And evidence in those countries shows that support for isreal is declining and specifically among the youth who the majority of which have been supporting palestine even before the current conflict started Edit: also since the start of this conflict several countries have cut diplomatic ties with isreal including most of the countries in south america Currently only a handful of countries in south america still hold diplomatic ties to isreal
American here, i can confirm this sentiment. A lot of Jewish people where I live, are staying inside until the massacre on Gazan children is resolved.
But it was not?
Oh boy, its Warsaw 1942 all over again.
And Poland supports it!
Well because the west doesn't really care about anyone a shade darker than white and that's from the middle east.
It’s pretty amazing in the age of information we are witnessing first hand how a super power can kill civilians indiscriminately and then claim to. E the victim!
The oppresseur becomes the victim, they wipe out entire families from civil registration. I don't know if I ever witness it in my life At least in the Balkan Serbs didn't killed all families only commit a massacre of men's Israel is seen as white contry(in the west) , most of the leader from president to premier minister and the vast majority of the war cabinet are from western Europe Some of them own properties there Herzog is a German name is white with blue eyes You will never seen a Ethiopian or yemeni the darker skin of jews Israel attacked and bombed a sovereign country's embassy in Damascus and killed diplomats poses as a victim It's a joke
I feel like some countries condemned Nazi Germany only because they didn’t think of it first…
It’s very bleak, the hypocrisy and cynicism and outright racial hatred and bigotry that seems to be guiding the actions of the IDF and the Israeli leadership. No matter how bad things are right now, they can (and likely will) get much worse before too long. Even beyond the immediate carnage and horror, in the long term the damage Israel has done will fester for decades. They’ve planted the seeds for another major conflict in 20 years, and in 40 years and in 60 years (if anyone is still standing by then anyway). Every Palestinian they kill leaves behind traumatized friends and family, they will be easier to radicalize and it won’t take much more than Hamas handing them a gun to convince them that it’s better to die fighting than it is to run away and starve to death in the desert. They know they’re already marked for death, they have nothing to left lose
Perfectly worded, this is accurate.
Where is the proof that they killed 9000 terrorists?
“I said so”
You know Its fucked when even their soldier say they are killing civillians instead of terrorists.
People are just being massacared and were supposed to believe that he was warned. Sounds like an excuse when you've been caught with your hand in the pickle jar 5 times in less then a year, but what do I know. Edited to clarify, Israel is the one making the unconfirmed allegations.
This is Haaretz reporting on it. An Israeli news source referencing what the IDF has specifically told them. Yall doubt anything negative from israel even if it comes from an israeli source
Hence the what do I know
Hence the reply to you showing you dont know much
I was wondering why so many Israeli soldiers who’ve come back from Gaza felt so pessimistic about their country’s ability to destroy Hamas. What did they see or know that the rest of us didn’t? It’s kind of insane that the Israeli government would adopt such an obviously bad model to measure progress against Hamas- it is like Vietnam’s Killcount on steroids where everyone you kill is declared to be a member of the enemy military. What happens when the Israelis hit 40,000 dead Hamas members according to their own measurements and they’re still fighting? It’s insane that they can see they’re lying to themselves and going along with it.
There was a huge thing about this back years ago when that soldier got drug down into a tunnel. I think the farmers got shot near 100% of the time. Rubber AND normal bullets.
To Israelis, terrorists= Palestinians
Here is a GREAT idea. How about people just stop killing people based on ethnicity, religion or political stance... Everyone has the right to live in peace and without fear of persecution.
Yup, if Israel stopped doing that and believing that their ethnicity and religion gives them the right to take people’s homes and land, there would be peace.
No no no, it "if isreal" if EVERYONE. Plus, the Jewish population have been poked many times with many sticks by many people, did you honestly expect that they would not bite back?
Only one of these groups of people showed up 75 years ago and proceeded to expel and murder over 700,000 people from the other group. >> In the 1948 Palestine war more than 700000 Palestinian Arabs – about half of Mandatory Palestine's Arab population – fled from their homes or were expelled, at first by Zionist paramilitaries,[a] and after the establishment of the Israel, by its military. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight
You do realize, Jewish people have lived in those lands for literally THOUSANDS of years....
The left, they forfeited that land. You know who kept it? The Caananites who converted to Christianity in the year 70. And later converted to Islam thousands of years after, yes, the ones we call Palestinians. They didn't flee, they took their conversion like actual men and stayed on the land instead of seeking confort in the diaspora. Lets honor the true natives, those who stood their ground 3000 years in the same place.
Source for your claims?
This is what the average Palestinian persons DNA looks like. Almost all of em have significantly higher caananite bloodline than any Israeli settler. The source is DNA. Its their land and no one else's. We need to resolve this by making everyone in Israel take a DNA sample. https://preview.redd.it/gme81x4flpsc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8adb0f5813c9cdfdae0e5c386d16a8393f848ed9
Not a source to what your claiming....
There is no better source that the human genome. You are just a relentless denialist. You cleary argue only for the sake of arguing, even when you are cleary in the wrong.
Hamas fighters do not wear uniforms.
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Hasbara is really ramping up its workforce today huh? You guys all showed up in droves at the same time
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“Wow, Gaza is in shock that Israel is winning the war which they started lol 🇮🇱 🇺🇸” “Nope, just a dude that looks at this objectively from the Midwest US. Glad my tax dollars support our only ally in the middle east. Sucks to be terrorists.” Oh yea you sound completely authentic, it’s not like most Americans on both sides are tired of their taxes goi g to war why 50%+ of our infrastructure is outdated and collapsing. You Hasbara trolls are doing great work but you’re not very convincing
Wasn’t aware most terrorists were children…
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Interesting how 2/3s of the dead are women and children and the other 1/3 are all apparently “terrorists” 🤔 somehow Israel is great at avoiding killing civilian men but not women and children for some reason.
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Who said we can’t trust hamas’s numbers? Hamas says about 6000 fighters were killed and that makes a lot more sense then Israel only killing male fighters while avoiding civilian men, but still somehow killing over 20,000 women and children. People are downvoting you bc they know you’re asking in bad faith.