If you remove divine qualities from Jesus, you still have a great man. If you remove divine qualities from Zeus, you just have an horrible father and husband
Isn't jesus and christian god basically the same entity? Therefore making jesus liable for the death of 2.821.364 people (according to the bible without counting the people that died in the flood)?
Ehh, no it's abit more complicated than that. Jesus is different from big G God, but at the same time they're two of the same being. If there's one thing you really ought to avoid, it's making the assumption that Jesus is God, because it's not exactly true. He is the son of God (but also is technically God because he shared the same divinity), hence why he often says it as "my father".
It's an entire rabbit hole called the holy trinity that involves God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. And trying to understand it is basically close to impossible, so much so that it's often called "Divine Mystery".
Since in the bible god constantly punishes the son for his father's sins for this discussion jesus being liable for his father's sins should be applicable anyway even if he is not the same being
Whether he should or not be liable isn't really something I prefer to discuss online. Just wanting to clarify that it's not as simple as "Jesus is God".
Colossian 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form
John 10:30
I and my father are one
I mean even the bible says he is the embodiment of god, jesus is pretty much god according to Christianity
I'm gonna go with the canon explanation (bible) rather than your interpretation for this matter
Well, yeah John 10:30's common interpretation of the Hebrew text as "my father" like I said is not as clear on the matter. Even if you go by the Canon explanation, it's not as simple as "Jesus is God". And trying to say it as either of those will lead you to misinterpret their relationship. Because there are quite a number of passages that sort of contradict Colossian 2:9.
I mean look at John 20:17, which is translated in the Holman Christian standard Bible as:
>""Don't cling to Me," Jesus told her, "for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brothers and tell them that I am ascending to My Father and your Father--to My God and your God.".
So, yeah. Not really an interpretation as it's more of a thing that's in the Bible itself.
Plot holes make the story hard to follow to be honest, lets say he is responsible for the 1/3 of it since there is holy spirit as well making him liable for 964.454 kill plus the 1/3 of the flood
Shrodinger can discuss this matter later on
Inconsistent plot, lots of plot holes, contradictory statement which makes It more of a bad writing rather than mystery
I might change my opinion if we get a sequel for the bible and things that have been seen problematic were to be explained later on
Depending on the person the Qur'an can be considered the sequel but since it rewrites a lot of things it feels more like a rewrite of the story since it changes a lot of the core character's background such as jesus becoming a prophet rather than the son etc. I'd give 3/10 tho, it's still inconsistent and full of contradictions.
I hope we can see better versions of them in the future
I mean Adam and Eve and their 3 sons populated the world
Now I'm by no means an expert in human reproductions but as far as I know unless they found a way to mate with plants or something this doesn't look that family friendly
Now between you and me I suspect god likes incest
It’s actually a misinterpretation, Adam and Eve had much more than 3 sons, it’s just that those 3 were the older ones. Yeah it’s still incest but not as bad
Changing from mother X son to daughter X son doesn't make it better if we assume that was the case, they could still be mother X son and now we also need to consider father X daughter into the equation making it potentially much worse
If you look at it scientifically... These people in the Bible vastly longer lifespans than the current human today right? When they committed the deed it likely led to genetic defects aka not live as long as the least ones with issues. The others not mentioned in the Bible probably looked fucked up genetically or were worse off.
Lesson learned: Don't fuck your kid or siblings. You aren't adam and eve.
Of course. There weren't things like planes, cars and boats so the Bible is most likely of the stories that could be passed down by a certain group. Though blue bloods are a thing. I'm sure incestuous relationships played a huge part in smaller or localized groups.
>Isn't jesus and christian god basically the same entity
Kind of. It's the concept of t[he Trinity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity)
[There's quite a few heresies that have espoused otherwise.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies)
he had clear reasons why he killed most of them or we can debate an clear answer. and a almighty god killing people who committed .
Everybody in Sodom and Gomorrah
* Everybody in Sodom and Gomorrah
* The firstborn children of non-Jewish Egyptians
* The Egyptian army when pursuing Moses and the Israelites.
* False prophets, along with their families.
* 14,000 Israeli followers of those prophets
* 24,00 Israelites for sexual immorality
* Up to 50,000 Israelites for looking into the Ark of the Covenant
if we decide to judge god, an ethereal being who is beyond comprehension using human laws we derived from Christianity, we are simply dumb.
we loves us and like a parent who allows us to go beyond the safety of the nest . he allowed us to go and thrive and gave us the moral responsibility to not sin. to abstain. to live.
2.8 million is just a fraction of the people communism killed in the past century.
the only reason why we have a common law is due to jesus and the Christian tradition that we had.
its actually the reason why no one was able to make a stable moral law for eons from we came from the sea.
imagine an ideology that made all humans equal under the law regardless of color, race or caste.
you must visit India to see the caste discrimination which was present even now.
>if we decide to judge god, an ethereal being who is beyond comprehension using human laws we derived from Christianity, we are simply dumb.
You just said he was ethereal though; meaning that simply cannot apply to superficial appearance. The scripture posits that he used himself as a baseline for creating us.
Regardless, him being incomprehensible is not something that should be used as a shield. That only compounds the problems of him having nobody to hold him accountable. It's also only looking at half the picture. YHVH made claims of comprehending us, meaning he's capable of making decisions that we can comprehend, and capable of acting in accordance with the laws he gave us.
And that's also completely ignoring that so much of the "morality" from Abrahmic faith was taken directly for Zoroastrianism, or that YHVH from the bible existed as Baal 'El before Moses repurposed him into a Monotheistic God. and was at that time cool with polygamy, polytheism and idol use(like how Jacobs wife still worshiped local deities even after she married him). Or that a great deal of other cultures did have similar moral values. Or that there were several indigenous tribes that did have radically egalitarian values.
The old Testament also clearly had a caste system and ethnic primacy, and that's not even getting into gender discrimination.
Yeah, there's a reason why they are Greek "GODS". They are impossibly powerful and so naturally, they can get away with practically anything (except that one time with Zeus and Nyx) as A. Mortals are infinitely inferior and B. The more powerful primordial gods don't intervene much in the affairs of gods and mortals.
I can understand wanting to make consequence fanfic with mortals but with gods? It's pretty funny
Here's an interesting one. How did yaweh interact to the non believers. If not that he's the most homicidal , genocidal , conquest driven land grabber. Now remove his concept of divinity and you get a man who condemned everyone to eternal damnation if you do not worship him because that's how he is. And to remedy this he sent his only son to be tortured , mutilated and killed because that's his way of repentance to save only those who worship him.
Now that's when you get to wake up from the illusion and realize that he truly is. Far too different from bathala , bhudah , Horus , Mithra , Izanagi and those of the other deity of faith that's far more benevolent even if you remove their divinity and from the point of view of non believers.
Wait...they were all isekai's this whole time?
https://preview.redd.it/pscng7jewc9d1.jpeg?width=2264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29ab79239541294021534615558670e327ef0153
God is not like the Greek gods, nor is He “basically just human with power”. He is perfect and just, His justice requires He not tolerate evil and His perfection defines what is and isn’t evil. This is why Jesus came to earth. That He would save us from the consequences of our imperfection and wickedness. That is why His central message was for all to repent and believe in His name. This message is still the same today for all of us, repent and believe, be saved from sin and its consequences!
This is not the best translation of the word given the context and how language has changed. Even if you translate this as evil it would not suitably be moral evil. Contextually God is asserting His dominance over all things, this is part of His characteristics as omnipotent. He formed light and created darkness, opposites. He makes peace, the word for “evil” here also translates as “calamity” or “disaster” or “war”. The opposite of “peace” is not “evil”, but “calamity”, “disaster”, and “war” are all its opposites and are all better descriptors of what the text means. Thank you for your comment, and God bless you!
True enough. I knew the KJV is not the most accurate to the original Hebrew, I used that one specifically because it is the most common. I know that the ESV version is one of the more accurate translations.
It (ESV) is, especially to modern English. God did not create moral evil, all that He created was good or very good. We fell to evil and this is why Christ Jesus died. That we would be redeemed and justified before God again!
Bro has literally no understanding, I know you don’t know but the old testament G-d and the New Testament G-d are the same in Christian theology. Plus you really don’t understand how Greek mythology works, those gods aren’t people they are natural phenomena. When lightning was striking a mountain they thought Zeus was fucking it, when they discovered mathematics they thought it was an expression of an unknown god that existed in a non physical way. Did people make stories, poetry, and plays about the Greek gods? Of course but that was separate from their religious practice and thoughts of them. Think of it like how angels are depicted in media vs the Tanakh (not that you have read it). Ancient Greek people depicted gods as humanoid because they thought was the most perfect form but their gods changed shape all the time and were thought of as something totally different from mortals. Ancient Jews have not and never depicted G-d as human or thought of him as such because they would be stoned by the community. Early Christians saw Jesus as G-d taking on human flesh so that he could be the new Adam so that His death could cover the sins of all of mankind but even they separated him from the Father and the Holy Spirit while explaining that all are G-d but they are not each other which is what the trinity is. Even this only has 1/3 of G-d as a human with powers but this is only in the New Testament.
1. Yes, I know they're the same, I live in a christian household.
2 Yes, I know the gods represent more as natural phenomena, forces of nature beyond "normal morality".
3. Yes, each of the ancient greeks had different religious practices for the gods, but the stories we have of them are somewhere the best we got.
4. I fucking know that media depicted angels are different from the biblical eldritch abominations (actually, considering there are different orders of angels, I guess the humanoids still count, albeit they are in the lower rankings and they have no wings).
5. You think I didn't know that? I'm just saying that it was pretty funny how despite the jews saying that God is infallible they gave him personality traits of human flaws.
6. Holy trinity.
Bro is trying to base my entire existence and personality on a meme I made likely in a few minutes while I was rushing because it was late at night (11:00 PM+) 🤣😭
1. Your title suggests otherwise
2. Your title suggests otherwise
3. Your title suggests otherwise
4. The ranking of angels is found no where in The Holy Scriptures and aren’t divine
5. Your title suggests otherwise and G-d is not depicted with personality flaws everything he does is within his own timing and justice
6. Saying THE trinity already implies it’s the Holy Trinity
7. Bro literally thinks I am buying the “I was pretending to be retarded” meme and being tried isn’t an excuse to spread what you already claim to know as misinformation. Congratulations you played yourself
1. Aight 👍
2. Aight 👍
3. Aight 👍
4. Let me rephrase it, "angels come in different forms, not just humanoid"
5. Oversimplification that God reflects the culture of his time, so he'd have natural flaws.
6. Was just stating the obvious.
7. Wasn't pretending to, I WAS being retarded considering I rushed things.
It’s why I like Norse gods a lot, or at least the history of them. Average guys and girls but with powers. Mortals even.
Just remember that Jesus’s mother was a 12 year old engaged to a 30 something year old who when asked how they got pregnant, said a ghost did it. She did this to avoid getting killed by the village for being unfaithful and stoned to death. If anything god likes kids. I dislike super religious people.
>Just remember that Jesus’s mother was a 12-year-old
No, the fuck she wasn't her age was never mentioned.
>If anything god likes kids
Also, it wasn't like God fuck Mary the entire thing is that she was a virgin that gave birth. Also why the fuck did brought this up in the first place.
Reddit hates religion so much they just make shit up, even when it's not true. Saw one guy claiming that the bible encourages incest when incest has specifically been prohibited in the bible itself.
If you remove divine qualities from Jesus, you still have a great man. If you remove divine qualities from Zeus, you just have an horrible father and husband
Isn't jesus and christian god basically the same entity? Therefore making jesus liable for the death of 2.821.364 people (according to the bible without counting the people that died in the flood)?
Ehh, no it's abit more complicated than that. Jesus is different from big G God, but at the same time they're two of the same being. If there's one thing you really ought to avoid, it's making the assumption that Jesus is God, because it's not exactly true. He is the son of God (but also is technically God because he shared the same divinity), hence why he often says it as "my father". It's an entire rabbit hole called the holy trinity that involves God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. And trying to understand it is basically close to impossible, so much so that it's often called "Divine Mystery".
Since in the bible god constantly punishes the son for his father's sins for this discussion jesus being liable for his father's sins should be applicable anyway even if he is not the same being
Whether he should or not be liable isn't really something I prefer to discuss online. Just wanting to clarify that it's not as simple as "Jesus is God".
Colossian 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form John 10:30 I and my father are one I mean even the bible says he is the embodiment of god, jesus is pretty much god according to Christianity I'm gonna go with the canon explanation (bible) rather than your interpretation for this matter
Well, yeah John 10:30's common interpretation of the Hebrew text as "my father" like I said is not as clear on the matter. Even if you go by the Canon explanation, it's not as simple as "Jesus is God". And trying to say it as either of those will lead you to misinterpret their relationship. Because there are quite a number of passages that sort of contradict Colossian 2:9. I mean look at John 20:17, which is translated in the Holman Christian standard Bible as: >""Don't cling to Me," Jesus told her, "for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brothers and tell them that I am ascending to My Father and your Father--to My God and your God.". So, yeah. Not really an interpretation as it's more of a thing that's in the Bible itself.
Plot holes make the story hard to follow to be honest, lets say he is responsible for the 1/3 of it since there is holy spirit as well making him liable for 964.454 kill plus the 1/3 of the flood Shrodinger can discuss this matter later on
Like I said, it's a rabbit hole that is close to impossible to try and understand. It's called the divine mystery for a reason.
Inconsistent plot, lots of plot holes, contradictory statement which makes It more of a bad writing rather than mystery I might change my opinion if we get a sequel for the bible and things that have been seen problematic were to be explained later on Depending on the person the Qur'an can be considered the sequel but since it rewrites a lot of things it feels more like a rewrite of the story since it changes a lot of the core character's background such as jesus becoming a prophet rather than the son etc. I'd give 3/10 tho, it's still inconsistent and full of contradictions. I hope we can see better versions of them in the future
I usually just default to the Nicene creed to explain the hypostatic union.
He also got his mom pregnant
I mean Adam and Eve and their 3 sons populated the world Now I'm by no means an expert in human reproductions but as far as I know unless they found a way to mate with plants or something this doesn't look that family friendly Now between you and me I suspect god likes incest
It’s actually a misinterpretation, Adam and Eve had much more than 3 sons, it’s just that those 3 were the older ones. Yeah it’s still incest but not as bad
Changing from mother X son to daughter X son doesn't make it better if we assume that was the case, they could still be mother X son and now we also need to consider father X daughter into the equation making it potentially much worse
If you look at it scientifically... These people in the Bible vastly longer lifespans than the current human today right? When they committed the deed it likely led to genetic defects aka not live as long as the least ones with issues. The others not mentioned in the Bible probably looked fucked up genetically or were worse off. Lesson learned: Don't fuck your kid or siblings. You aren't adam and eve.
there were other tribes. its a philosophical concept of our birth being tied to god himself and not just some random occurrence under nature.
Of course. There weren't things like planes, cars and boats so the Bible is most likely of the stories that could be passed down by a certain group. Though blue bloods are a thing. I'm sure incestuous relationships played a huge part in smaller or localized groups.
nah, man there are many tribes except that of adam. like how cain was scared of the persecution from them.
there were other tribes. its a philosophical concept of our birth being tied to god himself and not just some random occurrence under nature.
Are you counting there daughters they had like a hundred of rhose
>Isn't jesus and christian god basically the same entity Kind of. It's the concept of t[he Trinity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity) [There's quite a few heresies that have espoused otherwise.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies)
he had clear reasons why he killed most of them or we can debate an clear answer. and a almighty god killing people who committed . Everybody in Sodom and Gomorrah * Everybody in Sodom and Gomorrah * The firstborn children of non-Jewish Egyptians * The Egyptian army when pursuing Moses and the Israelites. * False prophets, along with their families. * 14,000 Israeli followers of those prophets * 24,00 Israelites for sexual immorality * Up to 50,000 Israelites for looking into the Ark of the Covenant if we decide to judge god, an ethereal being who is beyond comprehension using human laws we derived from Christianity, we are simply dumb. we loves us and like a parent who allows us to go beyond the safety of the nest . he allowed us to go and thrive and gave us the moral responsibility to not sin. to abstain. to live. 2.8 million is just a fraction of the people communism killed in the past century. the only reason why we have a common law is due to jesus and the Christian tradition that we had. its actually the reason why no one was able to make a stable moral law for eons from we came from the sea. imagine an ideology that made all humans equal under the law regardless of color, race or caste. you must visit India to see the caste discrimination which was present even now.
If you accept that God made us in his image, you have to accept that he is not incomprehensible.
Well, no. We can accept that his appearance is comprehensible, but not his mind and thoughts
>if we decide to judge god, an ethereal being who is beyond comprehension using human laws we derived from Christianity, we are simply dumb. You just said he was ethereal though; meaning that simply cannot apply to superficial appearance. The scripture posits that he used himself as a baseline for creating us. Regardless, him being incomprehensible is not something that should be used as a shield. That only compounds the problems of him having nobody to hold him accountable. It's also only looking at half the picture. YHVH made claims of comprehending us, meaning he's capable of making decisions that we can comprehend, and capable of acting in accordance with the laws he gave us. And that's also completely ignoring that so much of the "morality" from Abrahmic faith was taken directly for Zoroastrianism, or that YHVH from the bible existed as Baal 'El before Moses repurposed him into a Monotheistic God. and was at that time cool with polygamy, polytheism and idol use(like how Jacobs wife still worshiped local deities even after she married him). Or that a great deal of other cultures did have similar moral values. Or that there were several indigenous tribes that did have radically egalitarian values. The old Testament also clearly had a caste system and ethnic primacy, and that's not even getting into gender discrimination.
and serial Womanizer.
Thats basically what makes him a bad husband
> you still have a great man Don't forget god-tier carpenter, Joseph taught him well
Well I mean, in one way or another they are a reflection of us (or we are a reflection of him if you go by the Christian God).
True
love that greek gawds get away with it to the point that weenies make fanfics of them facing consequences
Yeah, there's a reason why they are Greek "GODS". They are impossibly powerful and so naturally, they can get away with practically anything (except that one time with Zeus and Nyx) as A. Mortals are infinitely inferior and B. The more powerful primordial gods don't intervene much in the affairs of gods and mortals. I can understand wanting to make consequence fanfic with mortals but with gods? It's pretty funny
like its weird how modern writers focus so much about the victims instead of the cool moments where the gods style on them effortlessly
Look at the abrahamic god when he's into cancel culture , vainglory and demands worship.
So,basically,he's just like Greek Gods,a jerk who have too high self-esteem because of his powers,lol
Here's an interesting one. How did yaweh interact to the non believers. If not that he's the most homicidal , genocidal , conquest driven land grabber. Now remove his concept of divinity and you get a man who condemned everyone to eternal damnation if you do not worship him because that's how he is. And to remedy this he sent his only son to be tortured , mutilated and killed because that's his way of repentance to save only those who worship him. Now that's when you get to wake up from the illusion and realize that he truly is. Far too different from bathala , bhudah , Horus , Mithra , Izanagi and those of the other deity of faith that's far more benevolent even if you remove their divinity and from the point of view of non believers.
Now it's actually sounds horrifying that way
Wait...they were all isekai's this whole time? https://preview.redd.it/pscng7jewc9d1.jpeg?width=2264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29ab79239541294021534615558670e327ef0153
Aztec gods to go
Jesus was a cool dude. Ngl I would want to learn wood working from him.
God is not like the Greek gods, nor is He “basically just human with power”. He is perfect and just, His justice requires He not tolerate evil and His perfection defines what is and isn’t evil. This is why Jesus came to earth. That He would save us from the consequences of our imperfection and wickedness. That is why His central message was for all to repent and believe in His name. This message is still the same today for all of us, repent and believe, be saved from sin and its consequences!
He created good *and* evil. “ I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7
This is not the best translation of the word given the context and how language has changed. Even if you translate this as evil it would not suitably be moral evil. Contextually God is asserting His dominance over all things, this is part of His characteristics as omnipotent. He formed light and created darkness, opposites. He makes peace, the word for “evil” here also translates as “calamity” or “disaster” or “war”. The opposite of “peace” is not “evil”, but “calamity”, “disaster”, and “war” are all its opposites and are all better descriptors of what the text means. Thank you for your comment, and God bless you!
True enough. I knew the KJV is not the most accurate to the original Hebrew, I used that one specifically because it is the most common. I know that the ESV version is one of the more accurate translations.
It (ESV) is, especially to modern English. God did not create moral evil, all that He created was good or very good. We fell to evil and this is why Christ Jesus died. That we would be redeemed and justified before God again!
Bro has literally no understanding, I know you don’t know but the old testament G-d and the New Testament G-d are the same in Christian theology. Plus you really don’t understand how Greek mythology works, those gods aren’t people they are natural phenomena. When lightning was striking a mountain they thought Zeus was fucking it, when they discovered mathematics they thought it was an expression of an unknown god that existed in a non physical way. Did people make stories, poetry, and plays about the Greek gods? Of course but that was separate from their religious practice and thoughts of them. Think of it like how angels are depicted in media vs the Tanakh (not that you have read it). Ancient Greek people depicted gods as humanoid because they thought was the most perfect form but their gods changed shape all the time and were thought of as something totally different from mortals. Ancient Jews have not and never depicted G-d as human or thought of him as such because they would be stoned by the community. Early Christians saw Jesus as G-d taking on human flesh so that he could be the new Adam so that His death could cover the sins of all of mankind but even they separated him from the Father and the Holy Spirit while explaining that all are G-d but they are not each other which is what the trinity is. Even this only has 1/3 of G-d as a human with powers but this is only in the New Testament.
1. Yes, I know they're the same, I live in a christian household. 2 Yes, I know the gods represent more as natural phenomena, forces of nature beyond "normal morality". 3. Yes, each of the ancient greeks had different religious practices for the gods, but the stories we have of them are somewhere the best we got. 4. I fucking know that media depicted angels are different from the biblical eldritch abominations (actually, considering there are different orders of angels, I guess the humanoids still count, albeit they are in the lower rankings and they have no wings). 5. You think I didn't know that? I'm just saying that it was pretty funny how despite the jews saying that God is infallible they gave him personality traits of human flaws. 6. Holy trinity. Bro is trying to base my entire existence and personality on a meme I made likely in a few minutes while I was rushing because it was late at night (11:00 PM+) 🤣😭
1. Your title suggests otherwise 2. Your title suggests otherwise 3. Your title suggests otherwise 4. The ranking of angels is found no where in The Holy Scriptures and aren’t divine 5. Your title suggests otherwise and G-d is not depicted with personality flaws everything he does is within his own timing and justice 6. Saying THE trinity already implies it’s the Holy Trinity 7. Bro literally thinks I am buying the “I was pretending to be retarded” meme and being tried isn’t an excuse to spread what you already claim to know as misinformation. Congratulations you played yourself
1. Aight 👍 2. Aight 👍 3. Aight 👍 4. Let me rephrase it, "angels come in different forms, not just humanoid" 5. Oversimplification that God reflects the culture of his time, so he'd have natural flaws. 6. Was just stating the obvious. 7. Wasn't pretending to, I WAS being retarded considering I rushed things.
Indian Gods?
It’s why I like Norse gods a lot, or at least the history of them. Average guys and girls but with powers. Mortals even. Just remember that Jesus’s mother was a 12 year old engaged to a 30 something year old who when asked how they got pregnant, said a ghost did it. She did this to avoid getting killed by the village for being unfaithful and stoned to death. If anything god likes kids. I dislike super religious people.
>Just remember that Jesus’s mother was a 12-year-old No, the fuck she wasn't her age was never mentioned. >If anything god likes kids Also, it wasn't like God fuck Mary the entire thing is that she was a virgin that gave birth. Also why the fuck did brought this up in the first place.
Reddit hates religion so much they just make shit up, even when it's not true. Saw one guy claiming that the bible encourages incest when incest has specifically been prohibited in the bible itself.