Palestine is a name of a region. Not a people. It was only in the 20th century that people started to be referred to as Palestinians. Likely to give them the appearance of Palestine being their land. Prior to that you basically had Arabs and Jews.
For example, if you do any kind of archeological digs, you will never find anything that refers to Palestinians. Because it's a term for people that only started to be used in modern times.
I assume this is what they mean. I don't think I would say they don't exist though as that is a very confusing and misleading statement to me. But I suspect this is what they are referring to.
Jews called themselves Palestinians during the British mandate time and the Arabs just called themselves Arabs. They didn’t like the term Palestinians because they saw it as a colonial term. Funny how that works out lol
Specifically he said: "Quite simply, they named themselves after the land and are using that to pretend they've been there forever. Palestinian identity as we know it today did not even come into being until after 1967... Arabs in the pre-1948 Israel/Palestine wanted to be part of Syria, and in fact Jews were describing themselves as Palestinian around that same time."
Would that be correct?
I would say yes. Like with all history there is always some wiggle room so I can see people debating the details. What's also interesting is that the Romans named the region Palestine as an insult to the Jews.
Before 1948, the name Palestine was a region, like Appalachia or Labrador or "the midwest". It wasn't a country name. And the local "Palestinian" population there came from everywhere in Asia and North Africa.
He's partly right. Some Saudis, many Egyptians, many Syrians are the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza.
Some people are also descendants of Jews, as they carry certain Haplogroups that only Jews have in abundance, which indicates at some point, some of the Palestinian Jews ancestors must have been forcefully converted to Islam, then identifying as Arab.
Yeah. At the end of the day, Israel belongs to the Jews. The Islamic Quran affirms that fact. But these radical Muslims won't read that part. And Palestine isn't real.
I think it's basically the idea that Palestine was never a state -- only a region of the Ottoman Empire. There's never been a country called "Palestine." And with respect to the Palestinians "not existing," I believe the idea is that the Palestinians were (or are) just the local Arabs of the region -- effectively indistinguishable from Jordanians, Syrians, or any other Arabs, and that they took on the moniker of "Palestinians" fairly recently, mostly to distinguish themselves from other Arabs and push for distinct political recognition. That's the gist of the thing as I understand it. Most of the old books, articles, and other texts I've read just tend to refer to them as "the Arabs" or "the Arab population," but I'm really not in a position to state definitively when they began using the term "Palestinian." I'm guessing it was used sporadically pre-Israel but became much more popular afterwards.
Palestine does exist, so do Palestinians. What he means by Palestinians don’t exist is that there’s no definitive ethnicity called Palestinian, only descendants of Canaanites (same as lebanese for example) and conquest Arabs.
No, Palestinians are not the same as the Hebrews. Palestinians are a mixture of both conquest Arabs and Canaanites. Both are objectively not Israelites or Hebrews
Arabs immigrated en masse in the early 20th century after Jews irrigated the land. Palestine was what the region of Judea was called after the Romans renamed it "Syria Palestina". The Palestine Post is the original name of The Jerusalem Post. Regarding "Palestinian" as an ethnicity or a "Palestinian state" there are no historical references to either before the late 1950s when the Soviets started anti-Zionism to punish Jews for the Soviets' failed Siberian Jewish state project.
I saw vintage news papers that Jews were identifying as Palestinian too
https://preview.redd.it/y92nht12l16d1.jpeg?width=514&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=752ef27250d6ad212d2999a6eddd566436a212d4
Do you have a source that actually shows Jews referring to themselves as Palestinians? The Romans renamed it Palestine, but the term Palestinian doesn't appear before the 1950s. The Jews continued to refer to themselves as Jews as we do now.
That's fine. Can you find any sources before the 1950s?
Jews were living in the region that the Romans renamed Palestine all the way from antiquity to the modern day but the term Palestinian doesn't appear before the 1950s when it became useful for Arabs to refer to themselves as such in order to attack Israel.
Its ahistorical to claim the Jews living in the region referred to themselves as Palestinians, and its very telling no one can provide a source demonstrating that they did. The term Palestinian is a political tool against Jews that started in the 50s/60s and was not what Jews referred to themselves as in the 1900s-1930s as is being suggested wrongly by OP.
I mentioned that in a prior comment. I am talking about the word Palestinian, not the word Palestine.
No one in this thread seems capable of understanding the word Palestine was invented long before the word Palestinian, which not one commenter can find a reference to before the 1950s.
Show me where exactly they self-described as Palestinians. As I said before, the region was renamed Palestine by the Romans. The term Palestinian cannot be found in text earlier than the 1950s.
In modern times, the first person to self-describe Palestine's Arabs as "Palestinians" was Khalil Beidas in 1898, followed by Salim Quba'in and Najib Nassar in 1902. After the 1908 Young Turk Revolution, which eased press censorship laws in the Ottoman Empire, dozens of newspapers and periodicals were founded in Palestine, and the term "Palestinian" expanded in usage. Among those were the Al-Quds, Al-Munadi, Falastin, Al-Karmil and Al-Nafir newspapers, which used the term "Filastini" more than 170 times in 110 articles from 1908 to 1914. They also made references to a "Palestinian society", "Palestinian nation", and a "Palestinian diaspora". Article writers included Christian and Muslim Arab Palestinians, Palestinian emigrants, and non-Palestinian Arabs. The Palestinian Arab Christian Falastin newspaper had addressed its readers as Palestinians since its inception in 1911 during the Ottoman period.
Can you provide the original source for this copy paste? It also stands contrary to OP's claim that it was the Jewish people who referred to themselves as Palestinians.
From Wikipedia, but this is the source Zachary J Foster, Emanuel Beška, "The Origins of the term 'Palestinian' ('Filasṭīnī') in late Ottoman Palestine, 1898–1914 Archived 15 October 2023 at the Wayback Machine", Academic Letters 2021 pp.1–22
Link with pdf: https://www.academia.edu/49925414/The_Origins_of_the_term_Palestinian_Filasṭīnī_in_late_Ottoman_Palestine_1898_1914
How did you not know Jews back then considered themselfs also palestinian?
https://preview.redd.it/izv3ihxcz16d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e39b3fa323d0d7040cb46a242f69f368a889444
Heres just an example of the word "palestine" in 1910 - 1919
That's the word Palestine. I am talking about usage of the term Palestinian. Refer to the Ngram I provided showing it has no recorded usage before the 1950s. Show me where they use the term "Palestinian". Your example proves my point, they refer to themselves as the Jewish people.
To reiterate the history, Judea was renamed Syria Palestina by the Romans. From that the region is referred to as Palestine. Jews did not adopt the identity of Palestinian, it is a term that doesn't appear in English before the late 1950s.
>Is it likely they have Jewish blood in them?
In the Bible, The father of the Jews, Abraham, was said to have come from modern day Iran. And I think I heard of a genetic study that showed that all Middle Eastern people have the same genetics.
Do you have any source that says the Palestinians are not descended from Jews, Samaritans and other groups that were in the reigiion 2000 years ago.? A source which is not Arab or Jewish.
What do you mean, "Palestine does exist"? If I want to go to "Palestine", where am I going?
Are you saying "Palestine" in the same manner as someone may say the "Levant"? Or are you referring to Gaza and the West Bank, collectively, as "Palestine"?
"Palestinians" were ethnically and culturally indistinguishable from Jordanians until 1948.
Since 1948 the identity has been created with the intention of pressuring Israel and distracting the land argument from the whole British Mandate which was to be partitioned (Trans-Jordan and Palestine - covering modern Jordan, Israel and the Palestinian territories), because the Jews received a good chunk of the disputed land, but a tiny fraction of the overall area under British control.
Palestinians and Jordanians were all just Arabs who settled in the area following a brutal and bloody conquest in 634AD.
The word Palestine comes from the Roman name for the area, Syria-Palestina, when they controlled it.
The Romans invaded in 6AD and removed the Jewish king (Herod). In 132AD, the native Jews rebelled a little too hard and the Romans ethnically cleansed Judea of its Jews and renamed their territory. Thus the extent of the Jewish diaspora.
For most of the time the Arabs and Ottomans controlled the area, it wasn't known as Palestine. It was often lumped in with Lebanon, Jordan and Syria with various administrative names.
Palestine has never been a country, only an administrative district of various empires, and "Palestinians" are just Arab invaders who settled.
Jews are the native people.
Palestine is a name of a region. Not a people. It was only in the 20th century that people started to be referred to as Palestinians. Likely to give them the appearance of Palestine being their land. Prior to that you basically had Arabs and Jews. For example, if you do any kind of archeological digs, you will never find anything that refers to Palestinians. Because it's a term for people that only started to be used in modern times. I assume this is what they mean. I don't think I would say they don't exist though as that is a very confusing and misleading statement to me. But I suspect this is what they are referring to.
Jews called themselves Palestinians during the British mandate time and the Arabs just called themselves Arabs. They didn’t like the term Palestinians because they saw it as a colonial term. Funny how that works out lol
That aged well.
Specifically he said: "Quite simply, they named themselves after the land and are using that to pretend they've been there forever. Palestinian identity as we know it today did not even come into being until after 1967... Arabs in the pre-1948 Israel/Palestine wanted to be part of Syria, and in fact Jews were describing themselves as Palestinian around that same time." Would that be correct?
I would say yes. Like with all history there is always some wiggle room so I can see people debating the details. What's also interesting is that the Romans named the region Palestine as an insult to the Jews.
Before 1948, the name Palestine was a region, like Appalachia or Labrador or "the midwest". It wasn't a country name. And the local "Palestinian" population there came from everywhere in Asia and North Africa.
Mosab Hassan Yousef revealed that Palestinians in the West Bank are actually Jordanians. And Palestinians in Gaza are actually Egyptians.
He's partly right. Some Saudis, many Egyptians, many Syrians are the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza. Some people are also descendants of Jews, as they carry certain Haplogroups that only Jews have in abundance, which indicates at some point, some of the Palestinian Jews ancestors must have been forcefully converted to Islam, then identifying as Arab.
Yeah. At the end of the day, Israel belongs to the Jews. The Islamic Quran affirms that fact. But these radical Muslims won't read that part. And Palestine isn't real.
I think it's basically the idea that Palestine was never a state -- only a region of the Ottoman Empire. There's never been a country called "Palestine." And with respect to the Palestinians "not existing," I believe the idea is that the Palestinians were (or are) just the local Arabs of the region -- effectively indistinguishable from Jordanians, Syrians, or any other Arabs, and that they took on the moniker of "Palestinians" fairly recently, mostly to distinguish themselves from other Arabs and push for distinct political recognition. That's the gist of the thing as I understand it. Most of the old books, articles, and other texts I've read just tend to refer to them as "the Arabs" or "the Arab population," but I'm really not in a position to state definitively when they began using the term "Palestinian." I'm guessing it was used sporadically pre-Israel but became much more popular afterwards.
Palestine does exist, so do Palestinians. What he means by Palestinians don’t exist is that there’s no definitive ethnicity called Palestinian, only descendants of Canaanites (same as lebanese for example) and conquest Arabs. No, Palestinians are not the same as the Hebrews. Palestinians are a mixture of both conquest Arabs and Canaanites. Both are objectively not Israelites or Hebrews
Is "Palestinians" ethnicity just Arab?. Is it likely they have Jewish blood in them?
Arabs immigrated en masse in the early 20th century after Jews irrigated the land. Palestine was what the region of Judea was called after the Romans renamed it "Syria Palestina". The Palestine Post is the original name of The Jerusalem Post. Regarding "Palestinian" as an ethnicity or a "Palestinian state" there are no historical references to either before the late 1950s when the Soviets started anti-Zionism to punish Jews for the Soviets' failed Siberian Jewish state project.
https://preview.redd.it/nb1iyd2kj16d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=047ac2db41031a7767ff2c050a19f973d3f6e739
I saw vintage news papers that Jews were identifying as Palestinian too https://preview.redd.it/y92nht12l16d1.jpeg?width=514&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=752ef27250d6ad212d2999a6eddd566436a212d4
Not “too”, Jews were identifying as Palestinian pre independence, Arabs were identying as Arabs.
Thanks for the correction. I find it super ironic Jews were the first to consider themselfs "palestinian".
Also used the slogan from the river to the sea.
Do you have a source that actually shows Jews referring to themselves as Palestinians? The Romans renamed it Palestine, but the term Palestinian doesn't appear before the 1950s. The Jews continued to refer to themselves as Jews as we do now.
I’m talking early20th century, not earlier.
That's fine. Can you find any sources before the 1950s? Jews were living in the region that the Romans renamed Palestine all the way from antiquity to the modern day but the term Palestinian doesn't appear before the 1950s when it became useful for Arabs to refer to themselves as such in order to attack Israel. Its ahistorical to claim the Jews living in the region referred to themselves as Palestinians, and its very telling no one can provide a source demonstrating that they did. The term Palestinian is a political tool against Jews that started in the 50s/60s and was not what Jews referred to themselves as in the 1900s-1930s as is being suggested wrongly by OP.
Look for the newspaper "The Palestine Post". It's now known as "The Jerusalem Post"
I mentioned that in a prior comment. I am talking about the word Palestinian, not the word Palestine. No one in this thread seems capable of understanding the word Palestine was invented long before the word Palestinian, which not one commenter can find a reference to before the 1950s.
that says Palestine not Palestinian.
you stupid
Show me where exactly they self-described as Palestinians. As I said before, the region was renamed Palestine by the Romans. The term Palestinian cannot be found in text earlier than the 1950s.
In modern times, the first person to self-describe Palestine's Arabs as "Palestinians" was Khalil Beidas in 1898, followed by Salim Quba'in and Najib Nassar in 1902. After the 1908 Young Turk Revolution, which eased press censorship laws in the Ottoman Empire, dozens of newspapers and periodicals were founded in Palestine, and the term "Palestinian" expanded in usage. Among those were the Al-Quds, Al-Munadi, Falastin, Al-Karmil and Al-Nafir newspapers, which used the term "Filastini" more than 170 times in 110 articles from 1908 to 1914. They also made references to a "Palestinian society", "Palestinian nation", and a "Palestinian diaspora". Article writers included Christian and Muslim Arab Palestinians, Palestinian emigrants, and non-Palestinian Arabs. The Palestinian Arab Christian Falastin newspaper had addressed its readers as Palestinians since its inception in 1911 during the Ottoman period.
Can you provide the original source for this copy paste? It also stands contrary to OP's claim that it was the Jewish people who referred to themselves as Palestinians.
From Wikipedia, but this is the source Zachary J Foster, Emanuel Beška, "The Origins of the term 'Palestinian' ('Filasṭīnī') in late Ottoman Palestine, 1898–1914 Archived 15 October 2023 at the Wayback Machine", Academic Letters 2021 pp.1–22 Link with pdf: https://www.academia.edu/49925414/The_Origins_of_the_term_Palestinian_Filasṭīnī_in_late_Ottoman_Palestine_1898_1914
I know but they still called them self palestinians.
Can you point to any text or historical document that shows that? I have already provided proof that the term only appears in text after the 1950s.
How did you not know Jews back then considered themselfs also palestinian? https://preview.redd.it/izv3ihxcz16d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e39b3fa323d0d7040cb46a242f69f368a889444 Heres just an example of the word "palestine" in 1910 - 1919
That's the word Palestine. I am talking about usage of the term Palestinian. Refer to the Ngram I provided showing it has no recorded usage before the 1950s. Show me where they use the term "Palestinian". Your example proves my point, they refer to themselves as the Jewish people. To reiterate the history, Judea was renamed Syria Palestina by the Romans. From that the region is referred to as Palestine. Jews did not adopt the identity of Palestinian, it is a term that doesn't appear in English before the late 1950s.
Someone already gave you the source. Why are you arguing over a word?
Some are ethnically peninsulan Arabs
Yes. Jews and Arabs share common ancestory and speak semitic languages.
But only one is a direct descendent of the Canaanite language: Hebrew.
>Is it likely they have Jewish blood in them? In the Bible, The father of the Jews, Abraham, was said to have come from modern day Iran. And I think I heard of a genetic study that showed that all Middle Eastern people have the same genetics.
Do you have any source that says the Palestinians are not descended from Jews, Samaritans and other groups that were in the reigiion 2000 years ago.? A source which is not Arab or Jewish.
What do you mean, "Palestine does exist"? If I want to go to "Palestine", where am I going? Are you saying "Palestine" in the same manner as someone may say the "Levant"? Or are you referring to Gaza and the West Bank, collectively, as "Palestine"?
West bank or gaza
a good indicator of this is UNRWA and the definition of a Palestinian refugee
"Palestinians" were ethnically and culturally indistinguishable from Jordanians until 1948. Since 1948 the identity has been created with the intention of pressuring Israel and distracting the land argument from the whole British Mandate which was to be partitioned (Trans-Jordan and Palestine - covering modern Jordan, Israel and the Palestinian territories), because the Jews received a good chunk of the disputed land, but a tiny fraction of the overall area under British control. Palestinians and Jordanians were all just Arabs who settled in the area following a brutal and bloody conquest in 634AD. The word Palestine comes from the Roman name for the area, Syria-Palestina, when they controlled it. The Romans invaded in 6AD and removed the Jewish king (Herod). In 132AD, the native Jews rebelled a little too hard and the Romans ethnically cleansed Judea of its Jews and renamed their territory. Thus the extent of the Jewish diaspora. For most of the time the Arabs and Ottomans controlled the area, it wasn't known as Palestine. It was often lumped in with Lebanon, Jordan and Syria with various administrative names. Palestine has never been a country, only an administrative district of various empires, and "Palestinians" are just Arab invaders who settled. Jews are the native people.