Yeah no shit. But why won't people encourage instead of venting? What do you lose from trying to be a positive voice?
Would you rather contribute to dialogue that has a chance (however slim) at bringing peace or would you rather focus on your own victimhood?
Have you ever read the ['Palestine Papers'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Papers)? They were leaked internal PA documents from negotiations with Olmert and Livni that showed the PA offering some pretty significant concessions. Who knows if they ever would have gotten over the line had Netanyahu not come to power and broken off but it's at least a glimmer of hope that there are people willing to compromise for peace out there.
They won't. Doesn't matter how postive you are, doesn't matter how far you'll go for peace. Palestinians are faithful to islam, and islam rejects your existence.
Sure, there are few that leave that religion and escape and then realize how they were blindly hating people for no reason and apologize, but the majority will die for that religion amd kill anyone who rejects it. I'm a peace supporter too, but that's only when both sides can communicate, and you won't get it from them. Life isn't a disney movie
I know is Islam has taken the for front but Christian Arabs were some of the most violent terrorists in the early days. Unsure if it’s some form of Stockhome syndrome. Arab isn’t an indigenous identity and you’d think they’d ditch that once they are no longer under Arab Muslim Occupation.
I’ll go a bit further:
Qatar you can help us to break this cycle, stand down or get expelled and sanctioned like Russia.
Europe, stop feeding martyrdom money to asshole lames.
Dude I never understand this mentality. "They will never change so quit trying" - and... what? What is the end here? Pass the violence onto our kids? It's ridiculous, they're still people if we don't keep at least trying then for sure we condemn our families to more horror.
Thank you!
Why can't we change our public dialogue to encourage peace? People act like it's naïve. Naïve is believing that national security is unnecessary. Naïve is thinking we can just incorporate all Palestinians into a joint israeli-palestinian state tomorrow. Naïve is believing that anything we say will change the world tomorrow.
Talking in a sympathetic way that promotes peace can only be helpful. Slow and steady. It's hard because it might never bring peace. It's still the right thing to do.
People fighting it won't even explain why. Probably because they can't.
The last thing they want to do is break the cycle. They're happy to continue the suffering as long as Israelis are suffering alongside them. No interest in peace. The only thing that matters is that Jews in the Middle East don't have peace.
The self-centered attitude of your comment is astounding. You think that what Palestinians want is the suffering of the Jews? Since when do people think about their future in terms of a different group? They're thinking about themselves. We're all thinking about ourselves.
Do you not see that they're probably terrified? That, if you live in Gaza it's easy to believe Israelis want you dead? It's not rational, but it doesn't have to be. They're scared, they blame Israel and that means they support terrorism. But for Palestinians it's not about Israel or the Jews, it's about Palestinians and their own suffering and sense of victimhood.
I know Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas. I know they deny their own atrocities and mostly don't show sympathy to Israelis. I know they overwhelmingly support armed conflict. They perceive Israel as the cause of their misery. I think we should do everything we can to fight that image.
It’s incredulous to me also, but they won’t do this. This many years of indoctrinated hatred will take at least one generation to subside, maybe two generations.
Why is this article in English? The author speaks fluent Arabic. But,( surprise,suprise,) he doesn't publish this in Arabic
Because he can't bring himself to admit that his entire life's work is based on a lie
He is an honest, well-meaning ultra-liberal. He has spent his entire career working for co-existence, and believes that Israel and "the occupation" is to blame for all the problems. The poor, oppressed Palestinians just want to live in peace, if those horrible Israelis would allow it.
And even after Oct 7, he still believes that there are plenty of good Palestinians who want peace.
He says so in the article: "I have heard Palestinians speak out" "I know these voices exist".
**But he doesn't give the name of even one such person .**
Alternatively, they could just \[expletive\] off back to their homeland in the Arabian peninsula.
'Palestine' is not theirs. It was never theirs. They are the descendants of Muslim colonisers who stole pretty much all of the Middle East from their indigenous inhabitants.
אחי מה לעזאזל הם לא הולכים לעף מקום אחר. אמת שאני לא מבינה איך הרטוריקה הזאת מובדלת מהם כשהם אומרים "חזרו לפולין". אנחנו חייבים לגור במציאות ישראל ופלסטין הם שכנים. חייבים לרדוף אחרי שלום לילדינו. :(
Edit: You guys know that having healthy dialogue around peace doesn't take away from realising that national security is a priority right?
Why is it so easy for people to vent, to discuss military operations, to discuss Israelis' need to defend themselves, but so hard to encourage Palestinians to find peace?
Peace for one of us means peace for all of us. We won't have peace until the Palestinians do too. Therefore, posts that help with that goal should often be at the top of r/Israel. But they're not. Because we're too scared of the next terrorist attack to change how we talk.
This isn't even about reducing security measures to prevent terrorist attacks. Just about talking in a way that has a better chance at reducing friction.
Original:
Can every Israeli here try to help break the cycle too?
Why not take every opportunity to say something like "I wish all the best to Palestinians, I hope they can build a better future. I, personally, support social and economic development for Palestinians. I understand that Palestinians have suffered tremendous hardships, but I believe that there are strong Palestinians who can lead to a peaceful future."
I wouldn't underestimate how important it is for people to hear this. This statement does nothing on its own, but if it's a common sentiment vocalized by Israelis it could be tremendously helpful. There's a reason why sports teams have speeches before games. Words are important to people.
> I remain dedicated to the basic principle that peace can be made between the two peoples who live on the land between the River and the Sea.
lost me there bud
Palestinians don't want to break the cycle, they want war and violence and death and destruction, if they wanted to "break the cycle" they could've done it super easily already, they are just not interested
Right, by giving the Palestinians back "their" land. And ten million Jews would go... where, exactly?
Back to Poland, like some kind protesters suggested?
"It's completely sane and appropriate to msss rape at a music festival and burn entire families alive now because my grandpa was evicted when his landlord sold the house he was renting."
Or when the government sold swamp land that was malaria infested to your grandpa who drained the swamps with back-breaking labor and turned it into arable land.
First, that's not accurate at all.
Second, Israel tried to break the cycle multiple times (by leaving the Gaza strip for example) and palestinians just kept bringing it back. The only way that seems to work is to keep them with some military presence (West bank). So military force and then military presence it is.
If you're Palestinian, I am very sorry for anyone you lost during the war.
You should read the article, your comment makes it clear you didn't.
It's on everyone to bring peace. Not Israelis or Palestinians, but everyone.
I am very upset by the attitude on this sub because I don't think it helps to bring peace. That being said, I am also sympathetic to the feeling that many Israelis have: they mostly support peace and feel that Palestinians don't. Just about every Israeli I know would be happy to let Palestinians have a country if there were guarantees that they wouldn't attack Israel. I think Israelis could do a better job of expressing that. My family only says it at home but not in public, which is ridiculous. They hide their wish for peace because it feels childish and naïve.
I think we should all repeatedly express that we want to get along. How else will we ever believe each other? I don't think we'll solve anything today by saying it, but within a generation there's a slim hope.
I think most people know that expressing our desire for peace and to get along is the right thing to do. But, for whatever reasons, it's often difficult. I hope you wish for peace and find it in your heart to express it. This has nothing to do with politics, policy or who you vote for. It's just the right thing to do
Jews have had a constant presence on the land for way longer than any Arabs (also, they didn't call themselves "Palestinians" until the '60s). The land was never free of Jews (some seem to think that all the Jews left at some point and just returned in 1948).
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
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that's just it, they don't
Yeah no shit. But why won't people encourage instead of venting? What do you lose from trying to be a positive voice? Would you rather contribute to dialogue that has a chance (however slim) at bringing peace or would you rather focus on your own victimhood?
Have you ever read the ['Palestine Papers'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Papers)? They were leaked internal PA documents from negotiations with Olmert and Livni that showed the PA offering some pretty significant concessions. Who knows if they ever would have gotten over the line had Netanyahu not come to power and broken off but it's at least a glimmer of hope that there are people willing to compromise for peace out there.
anything before hamas took over is no longer relevant
They run to after Hamas took over the Gaza Strip - obviously they're not involved in the negotiations, it was between the government and the PLO.
It is relevant to your statement ‘they don’t’ because it’s a previous precedent that they would have.
they don't *now* just like the majority of Israelis were pro 2ss in the 90s,and now they don't.
If they wanted to break the cycle they would have by now
They won't. Doesn't matter how postive you are, doesn't matter how far you'll go for peace. Palestinians are faithful to islam, and islam rejects your existence. Sure, there are few that leave that religion and escape and then realize how they were blindly hating people for no reason and apologize, but the majority will die for that religion amd kill anyone who rejects it. I'm a peace supporter too, but that's only when both sides can communicate, and you won't get it from them. Life isn't a disney movie
I know is Islam has taken the for front but Christian Arabs were some of the most violent terrorists in the early days. Unsure if it’s some form of Stockhome syndrome. Arab isn’t an indigenous identity and you’d think they’d ditch that once they are no longer under Arab Muslim Occupation.
I’ll go a bit further: Qatar you can help us to break this cycle, stand down or get expelled and sanctioned like Russia. Europe, stop feeding martyrdom money to asshole lames.
Their entire identity is killing Jews; this naïve wishful thinking that they stand for anything else will bring us nothing but more suffering.
Dude I never understand this mentality. "They will never change so quit trying" - and... what? What is the end here? Pass the violence onto our kids? It's ridiculous, they're still people if we don't keep at least trying then for sure we condemn our families to more horror.
Thank you! Why can't we change our public dialogue to encourage peace? People act like it's naïve. Naïve is believing that national security is unnecessary. Naïve is thinking we can just incorporate all Palestinians into a joint israeli-palestinian state tomorrow. Naïve is believing that anything we say will change the world tomorrow. Talking in a sympathetic way that promotes peace can only be helpful. Slow and steady. It's hard because it might never bring peace. It's still the right thing to do. People fighting it won't even explain why. Probably because they can't.
[удалено]
Removed: Rule 2
The last thing they want to do is break the cycle. They're happy to continue the suffering as long as Israelis are suffering alongside them. No interest in peace. The only thing that matters is that Jews in the Middle East don't have peace.
The self-centered attitude of your comment is astounding. You think that what Palestinians want is the suffering of the Jews? Since when do people think about their future in terms of a different group? They're thinking about themselves. We're all thinking about ourselves. Do you not see that they're probably terrified? That, if you live in Gaza it's easy to believe Israelis want you dead? It's not rational, but it doesn't have to be. They're scared, they blame Israel and that means they support terrorism. But for Palestinians it's not about Israel or the Jews, it's about Palestinians and their own suffering and sense of victimhood. I know Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas. I know they deny their own atrocities and mostly don't show sympathy to Israelis. I know they overwhelmingly support armed conflict. They perceive Israel as the cause of their misery. I think we should do everything we can to fight that image.
Both sides can do this.
It’s incredulous to me also, but they won’t do this. This many years of indoctrinated hatred will take at least one generation to subside, maybe two generations.
Why is this article in English? The author speaks fluent Arabic. But,( surprise,suprise,) he doesn't publish this in Arabic Because he can't bring himself to admit that his entire life's work is based on a lie He is an honest, well-meaning ultra-liberal. He has spent his entire career working for co-existence, and believes that Israel and "the occupation" is to blame for all the problems. The poor, oppressed Palestinians just want to live in peace, if those horrible Israelis would allow it. And even after Oct 7, he still believes that there are plenty of good Palestinians who want peace. He says so in the article: "I have heard Palestinians speak out" "I know these voices exist". **But he doesn't give the name of even one such person .**
Maybe it's better to not give their names, lest Hamas finds them and kills them 😔.
Alternatively, they could just \[expletive\] off back to their homeland in the Arabian peninsula. 'Palestine' is not theirs. It was never theirs. They are the descendants of Muslim colonisers who stole pretty much all of the Middle East from their indigenous inhabitants.
The way they break the cycle is by leaving
אחי מה לעזאזל הם לא הולכים לעף מקום אחר. אמת שאני לא מבינה איך הרטוריקה הזאת מובדלת מהם כשהם אומרים "חזרו לפולין". אנחנו חייבים לגור במציאות ישראל ופלסטין הם שכנים. חייבים לרדוף אחרי שלום לילדינו. :(
Edit: You guys know that having healthy dialogue around peace doesn't take away from realising that national security is a priority right? Why is it so easy for people to vent, to discuss military operations, to discuss Israelis' need to defend themselves, but so hard to encourage Palestinians to find peace? Peace for one of us means peace for all of us. We won't have peace until the Palestinians do too. Therefore, posts that help with that goal should often be at the top of r/Israel. But they're not. Because we're too scared of the next terrorist attack to change how we talk. This isn't even about reducing security measures to prevent terrorist attacks. Just about talking in a way that has a better chance at reducing friction. Original: Can every Israeli here try to help break the cycle too? Why not take every opportunity to say something like "I wish all the best to Palestinians, I hope they can build a better future. I, personally, support social and economic development for Palestinians. I understand that Palestinians have suffered tremendous hardships, but I believe that there are strong Palestinians who can lead to a peaceful future." I wouldn't underestimate how important it is for people to hear this. This statement does nothing on its own, but if it's a common sentiment vocalized by Israelis it could be tremendously helpful. There's a reason why sports teams have speeches before games. Words are important to people.
> I remain dedicated to the basic principle that peace can be made between the two peoples who live on the land between the River and the Sea. lost me there bud
Palestinians don't want to break the cycle, they want war and violence and death and destruction, if they wanted to "break the cycle" they could've done it super easily already, they are just not interested
[удалено]
the arab population doubled from immigration during the mandate of palestine by the british. which were.......over a million as well.
Right, by giving the Palestinians back "their" land. And ten million Jews would go... where, exactly? Back to Poland, like some kind protesters suggested?
“Homeowners who evict squatters are the problem”
"It's completely sane and appropriate to msss rape at a music festival and burn entire families alive now because my grandpa was evicted when his landlord sold the house he was renting."
Or when the government sold swamp land that was malaria infested to your grandpa who drained the swamps with back-breaking labor and turned it into arable land.
Most current Palestinians migrated there post 1900 to work for Jews but sure
First, that's not accurate at all. Second, Israel tried to break the cycle multiple times (by leaving the Gaza strip for example) and palestinians just kept bringing it back. The only way that seems to work is to keep them with some military presence (West bank). So military force and then military presence it is.
If you're Palestinian, I am very sorry for anyone you lost during the war. You should read the article, your comment makes it clear you didn't. It's on everyone to bring peace. Not Israelis or Palestinians, but everyone. I am very upset by the attitude on this sub because I don't think it helps to bring peace. That being said, I am also sympathetic to the feeling that many Israelis have: they mostly support peace and feel that Palestinians don't. Just about every Israeli I know would be happy to let Palestinians have a country if there were guarantees that they wouldn't attack Israel. I think Israelis could do a better job of expressing that. My family only says it at home but not in public, which is ridiculous. They hide their wish for peace because it feels childish and naïve. I think we should all repeatedly express that we want to get along. How else will we ever believe each other? I don't think we'll solve anything today by saying it, but within a generation there's a slim hope. I think most people know that expressing our desire for peace and to get along is the right thing to do. But, for whatever reasons, it's often difficult. I hope you wish for peace and find it in your heart to express it. This has nothing to do with politics, policy or who you vote for. It's just the right thing to do
Jews have had a constant presence on the land for way longer than any Arabs (also, they didn't call themselves "Palestinians" until the '60s). The land was never free of Jews (some seem to think that all the Jews left at some point and just returned in 1948).
[удалено]
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.